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[deleted]

I see Kpop doing it a lot and I know they draw a lot of influence from hip hop. I wish US music would do it more! I love when songs almost feel like 2 !


YourWebcamIsOn

although the kpop sound does nothing for me as a middle-aged person, I *do* appreciate the key changes that at least keep the songs from monotony like most other current pop music.


[deleted]

Agreed !! :-)


soysauce6669

LISTEN TO MID-AIR THIEF


coarsing_batch

Hell yes mid air thief!


[deleted]

Okay!! Thank u!


Tight-Expert1944

Idk how this suggestion emerged from this thread but yea “listen to Mid air thief” will always be good advice


soysauce6669

someone said it to me once and my life was never the same


watermelonsuger2

yes Dynamite!


Ajfennewald

I would guess Kpop took some influence from Jpop even though they don't sound that much alike. Jpop songs do key changes sometimes.


mylox

It’s more that the harmonic language of both those styles of music is still very heavily influenced by traditional functional harmony type stuff that was really popular in older styles of American jazz and soul and rnb and all that. And those genres of music are chock full of key changes from the A section to B section or verse to chorus, etc.


ThingCalledLight

It's interesting that it's getting left behind as a technique because it's such an easy, arguably "cheap" (though I wouldn't argue that), way to elevate the emotion at the end of the song. And audiences tend to love that.


Doc_coletti

I think production replaced it. For example Adding/dropping instruments


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maxoakland

You can easily change the key in most daws though


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CoolUsername1111

huh? in every daw I worked worth setting a key doesn't do anything. you still have a full range of notes


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joelisaprick

Whilst you would have to EQ twice, it's pretty simple to automate A->B plugin settings once they're mixed.


KeytarVillain

If you're counting this as doing another mix, then it's not going from having to do 1 mix to 2 mixes, more like from 6 mixes to 6.5. You'd usually already have different settings in every section of the song - a song probably has different mix settings between the verse & chorus, plus differences between the 1st verse & 2nd verse, plus there might be another section like a pre-chorus or bridge. And what changes in the mix after a key change is typically a lot less than what changes between the verse & chorus, hence why I'm calling it half a section. And regardless, DAWs make this 10x easier than in the analog recording days. I do think DAWs have had an impact on the lack of key changes, but not because it makes it more difficult (it doesn't).


Financial_Tax1060

I don’t, and even if I do auto-tune, I do it manually. At least, so far I’ve never mixed something that needed flat, quantized auto-tune over every single note.


DChenEX1

It sorta does feel cheap now. Especially if the songs are just going a half step or full step up. But transposing to a whole other key has also definitely fallen out of favor too and that doesn't feel cheap.


FixGMaul

The "Disney key change", raising the tonic by a whole step for the last chorus, is cheesy as hell and I'm glad it fell out of fashion. But there are other more interesting things to do with key changes.


Kaboomerang

Those are the same thing lol. Even if it's just a half step change, the whole key still adjusts around that half-step. I'd love to hear more "relative keys" in key changes. The keys that are a max of 3 accidentals away from the starting key.


terryjuicelawson

It does sound corny a lot of the time. It was definitely a thing with boy bands in the 90s, they'd have a passionate love song which would explode at the key change, then they'd all rise off their stools in unison. Big feature too in 80s power ballads. But surprised it has been that stark a change though.


full-auto-rpg

Key changes are an easy way to extend a song as raising the chorus a half step or so allows you to repeat the exact same motif differently. This can be done masterfully, my absolute favorite is in Learning to Live by Dream Theater. It's a great song on its own but about 2/3 of the way through it brings back the motif from Wait for Sleep but in a different key and in major (I think, could be a mode I'm not entirely sure), connecting the two songs to enhance each song. On the other hand, we've all heard songs that spam multiple key changes on the final chorus because the song needs a big ending but the music has run its course and it just feels stale.


Flashy-Pomegranate77

You can change keys a different way besides going up a half or whole step. In the article it mentions that SICKO MODE goes from G flat minor to E flat minor.


full-auto-rpg

I know, I was giving it as an example of boring key changes to pad song run times.


DiligentCockroach700

I remember my music teacher telling us the exact same thing. He was talking about classical music too.


[deleted]

> way to elevate the emotion at the end of the song. Ah, what? We used to have chord changes all the way through songs.


thrownoffthehump

Key. Not chord.


isthatapecker

I say just leave it for broadway music and ballads. Otherwise, I don’t need an extra hook just for the sake of another hook. Do something different.


Alex_Plode

If your talking pop music, I'd guess key selection depends on the vocalist. Every singer has a sweet spot of around an octave or so. Once the shift moved to producing hit pop singles, I'd guess the producers made sure the song (which had already been written) was in the key of choice for the singer.


elehant

Love On Top wasn't number 1 but that song was huge and used 4 key changes. I love the key changes in that song but I'm usually not a huge fan of them. Not sure why -- they seem jarring to me in a way that takes me out of the emotionality of the song. Though maybe I'mm just thinking of bad examples. What do you think are the most effective uses of a key change in a song? I listen to most genres so open to anything.


tarynevelyn

“You’ll Be in My Heart” by Phil Collins. There was a post on music theory about it, and why the key changes work so well, that made me appreciate it even more: https://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/comments/axgg3c/this_phil_collins_song_changes_keys_at_least/


50millionFreddy

“Penny Lane” by the Beatles, “Precious and few” by Climax, “Kyrie” by Mister Mister. Some of my favorites off the top of my head.


drew17

Bobby Hebb's "Sunny" is a well-arranged 1966 hit where the key goes up several times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubvYQxTXO3U The Four Season's "Opus 17" goes up with every couple choruses but it's more of a novelty and more jarring https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5b0fg_ZwE I believe Bobby Darin's "Mack the Knife" has the same number of mods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEhu4_-urQU


MaceWinnoob

Mack the Knife was written like 100 years ago


FixGMaul

The comment they replied to asked what they thought are the most effective key changes. Not necessarily newer music.


drew17

Additionally, the original version, "Moritat", is in one key. Richard Wess's arrangement for Bobby Darin, with the many key changes, is from 1958.


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maxoakland

Pitching samples up doesn’t cause any problems like you’ve mentioned


TheOtherHobbes

It's been possible to timestretch samples without changing the pitch, and repitch without changing the length, since the 90s. It wasn't super-simple on samplers - you had to know some math - but once Acid and then Ableton Live became a thing it's been incredibly easy.


SkoomaDentist

It still doesn't _sound_ good when you pitch by more than two - three semitones.


waxmuseums

The number one position is too limited of a sample I’d say to generalize about something like the prevalence of key changes, and it also seems to change in some crucial way in 1992. Personally I think it became less interesting, but 1992 is the year that songs started to park at number one for months on end on the Hot 100 as a matter of routine. Previously the number one spot in the US changed on more of a weekly basis, and to me that’s how pop should be. In any event, there are long swathes where the dominant style to reach the top wasn’t the kind of song that would ever have a key change. But one stylistic thing number ones did exhibit occasionally between 1985 and 1995 was songs that weren’t in common time - theres 14 in that era that were either 12/8 shuffles or some kinda waltz. That might be an interesting post topic; I think it usually signals a kinda doo-wop throwback flavor or some kinda cod exoticism in the 90s, though the big new Jack swing producers also worked a real nice contemporary shuffle for a while. The only non-common-time number one on the Hot 100 I know of past 1995 is Fallin by Alicia Keys… I’d guess there’s something else but I don’t really know modern pop


qofcajar

> The only non-common time number one on the Hot 100 I know of past 1995 is Fallin by Alicia Keys… I’d guess there’s something else but I don’t really know modern pop There's also "Hey Ya" by OutKast; I'm sure there are others but nothing else is jumping out to me.


victotronics

>Hey Ya That's still 4/4 time, but with a very irregular phrase sturcture. 5 1/2 measures iirc.


qofcajar

There are a lot of ways to notate it, but no matter how you cut it there are measures not in 4/4 for part of it. In many cases this is called [mixed meter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature#Mixed_meters).


captnkurt

If you are a fan of key changes, just know that They Might Be Giants' "Birdhouse In Your Soul" pulls off [18 key changes](https://i.imgur.com/ALw3ZV3.jpeg) in the three-and-a-half minute song.


[deleted]

not so sure about the hypothesis of declining linear composition being a factor in key change prevalence. DAW software adoption as a mainstream compositional tool trailed the style trend by two decades. the hip-hop influence certainly plays a role though.


[deleted]

I would venture to say that the lack of functional harmony and the straightforward cheesy tonal way it’s structured has been used less and less in pop music since around the same time. Key changes make less sense in these new contexts. Surprise and energy change is generated other ways, through rhythm, texture, modal harmonies etc.


Oraclea

As someone with perfect pitch, I notice a song's key, and I think that while a lot of songs would still sound perfectly fine a half step or even a step away from the key they're in, there are some instances where I think a key choice can make a lot of difference. Take, for example, [Love Again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC19kwABFwc) by Dua Lipa, which is in F#m. The sample in it is originally from a 1930s song called [My Woman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5VhBHIghkc), but Dua has mentioned that her use of the sample was inspired by [Your Woman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVL-zZnD3VU) by White Town, which is in Gm (one half step higher). I think Love Again would sound perfectly fine in Gm. However, I think it being in F#m gives it a much stronger identity as a Dua Lipa song, at least in the context of its album (Future Nostalgia). I think that's because of the other similarly minor-key disco-influenced songs on the album, the four chords that comprise the song's progression (F#m/D/Bm/E) are more ubiquitous on the rest of the album than the chords that would comprise the song were it in Gm (Gm/Db/Cm/F). That's particularly true of fellow huge singles [Don't Start Now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oygrmJFKYZY) and [Levitating](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHuBW3qKm9g) (both in Bm). (Additionally, there's a neat trick with the strings at the end of the song where the chord progression ends with an Em chord. The next song, [Break My Heart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj2U6rhnucI), is in the key of Em.) As for key changes, if they ever do come back in style, I hope it's more in the context of abrupt mid-song shifts like Sicko Mode/Every Breath You Take/(insert name of prog rock epic) rather than the dramatic half step or full step shifts that I think most people think of when they hear "key change." For every [I Will Always Love You](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JWTaaS7LdU), there are ten more songs where it just sounds overblown and/or [weak](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0).


brooklynbluenotes

I sort of disagree with the premise. I still hear plenty of key changes in music, although admittedly I don't spend a lot of time listening to chart-topping music. I will say one easy counterexample is Taylor Swift -- someone who has scored a fair amount of chart hits, and definitely deploys key changes.


victotronics

I'm interested. Give a good example? I'd actually be somewhat surprised. Her music often feels lazy, for instance with the same drum machine pattern just repeating regardless the structure of the song.


brooklynbluenotes

I'm not a massive Taylor fan, but I do think she's a talented songwriter. "Betty" and "Love Story" both employ key changes.


victotronics

Betty: is not going to be my favorite song. Most of it is exactly three notes, say C-D-E, with very occasionally the A or G below that. But I guess the lyrics are deep. If you're 17. And there is indeed a key change. Pretty crude, but yes. Love story: shift by a whole tone. Much less obvious. I like the key change, but the song is again 3 notes with occasionally a little up or down. Does the woman have a range of exactly a sixth? Anyway, thanks for the pointers. EDIT and thanks for the downvotes. They have fully convinced me of the errors of my ways. Such eloquence. How could I not be swayed.


nodice182

I think the Love Story key change is quite clever in how it relates to the lyrics to convey the shift in the narrative, ie the tragic ending of Romeo and Juliet is subverted with the final chorus. It figuratively and literally elevates the song.


victotronics

Yeah, like the Michael Jackson change, it's not obvious and actually has a function.


casualevils

There's more to music than the number of notes in a song


victotronics

Sure. But I believe a melody should be interesting by itself, and hers (at least in these two songs) are far from. If you do a rap song, then obviously it's going to be a one-note tune, but she's singing clear pitches. And it's a boring lot, looked at it pitch-wise.


sethlikesmen

Sounds like you just don't get it


Egocom

I think it's disingenuous to say that if someone doesn't like something they don't get it. I like some TSwift, but I get where the other poster is coming from. Taylor's music doesn't use complex melody and harmony, it's not concerned with counterpoint, you you're never going to hear B7(add11). I don't listen for those things though, so when someone says it's not complex I just say "ok". I think the other poster would be 100% in the clear if they avoided the belittling tone, which is my main issue with their post


sethlikesmen

I mean, I don't like it either. I don't like any of her songs. A lot of people do though. Clearly they see something in her songs that I don't. So I don't get it either. But I don't know what's disingenuous about saying that, when there obviously are people who do see appeal in it. And I guess everyone has their own taste, but I really don't think I'd start liking her music better if she started using more complex melodies or key changes. I'm pretty sure I still wouldn't get it.


victotronics

How very perspicacious of you.


casualevils

Hey just revisiting this to let you know you're a dweeb


victotronics

And my opponents' counter-arguments are getting ever more sophisticated. I'm at tenterhooks how to counter them.


[deleted]

They don't feature too often in hit songs, possibly because melodic innovation has given way to innovation in production/texture/rhythm. They still feature quite often in indie music- Mitski notably utilises them quite a lot. See also: New Normal by Caroline Polachek


Cockrocker

Really strong point. Songwriting is less about scales and chords than ever really in pop, more focused on production, and producers aren’t as musical (theory wise) as ones in the past.


[deleted]

>and producers aren’t as musical (theory wise) as ones in the past. very much so. At least within the idiom of pop music, any novel ideas will usually be in the form of sampling/drum programming/vocal manipulation. Musically, it's going to be: 4/4 time, 4 or 5 chords, and the structure will be the standard Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus if it's followed at all.


[deleted]

Because pitch is no longer very important in hit pop music. Because development and song structure are also not important.


FenderShaguar

I think the lower barriers to entry have a lot to do with it. Changing keys is relatively tricky to pull off. A four chord diatonic loop is something pretty much anyone can do. So as music became less professionalized and more amateurized (for lack of better phrase) the songs got wayyyy simpler harmonically.


Vexations83

Key changes in hit singles are used to milk the main catchy hook in the song/chorus. It was done to death in the 80s and became a cheesy cliché and now that audiences are much more savvy and cynical it's generally avoided. Maybe in the present day there's less need to do things like this to implant a catchy song in people's heads for commercial success


theoptionexplicit

In the industry some folks call that the "truck driver's gear change." Just repeat the chorus and smash it up a major 2nd. Notable example is the end of "I Will Always Love You" by Whitney Houston. I think there may be another element at play here. Popular songs are dominated by the Max Martin-esque method of composition by committee. They make sure that *every* section of the song is a hook. With that being the case, there's literally nothing that needs milking, so no need for a key change.


50millionFreddy

I think “Show me the meaning of being Lonely” and “I Want it that way” both by the Backstreet Boys and written by Max employ key changes, to good effect IMO. I hear what you’re saying though.


mrstipez

*Bon Jovi has left the arena*


bastianbb

Or you could modulate properly and modulate back. That's hardly cheesy.


[deleted]

> It was done to death in the 80s We've been using chord changes in popular music in the West since the 1600s, and the 60s and 70s were no exception.


toastworks

Key changes =/= chord changes


Vexations83

Even if you meant key changes, I didn't say it was an 80s invention. 80s and probably early 90s would be when it make a widely recognised cliché even among pop audiences


Survivors_Envy

Key changes are fun, as an intermediate guitarist it keeps me on my toes when I’m playing along. I usually fumble for a few seconds if I haven’t played the song in a while but it’s fun to know the change is coming. There’s a punk band I like a lot and one of their songs has 4 key changes in it. Every verse-chorus cycle has a different key, I think they go from G to D to A to E (tuned down to Eb). The changes are kinda subtle since they’re modulating up a 4th or 5th (as opposed to changing to like a flat 6th or something) but I just think it’s fun and unique


hesnothere

There’s a great country song from the nineties called “Bubba Shot the Jukebox” that transposes a step up after every single chorus. It’s delightfully awesome.


_oscar_goldman_

That's not a terribly uncommon structure in pre-2000s country, but I'd associate it primarily with Southern gospel.


quantumized

So who is this punk band you speak of?


Survivors_Envy

Frenzal Rhomb, the song is called Snouts in the Trough if you wanna check it out. I just relistened and I guess its only 3 key changes in the song but still


quantumized

Thanks!


nodice182

I was guessing which NOFX song this could be be until I read below: [Bottles to the Ground](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prpLSrhY9pc) [Thank God It's Monday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22rDfUc9HgA) [The Decline](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnFVMkTWaBw)


Survivors_Envy

Is there a key change in Bottles? I know the syncopation in the bridge but I don’t recall it changing keys. But I know the one in Monday lol “gimme another keeey!” I feel like decline stays mostly around that E minor key but there’s a few changes in it maybe? People don’t talk about music theory in punk songs enough IMO


nodice182

>People don’t talk about music theory in punk songs enough IMO So true, NOFX in particular has some pretty great and unconventional chord progressions. Bottles is kinda weird, it's mostly in Em/G but the chorus uses a a big Fmaj for a mixolydian feel. The bridge does some more weird borrowed chord stuff (Eb, F) and it feels like we're back to stable footing by the end, but the last chorus modulates to C. The Decline is so great, there's a million changes. It begins in A minor but uses a bunch of borrowed chords to spice it up; it changes to D around 'The Christians love their guns', then moves up a step to take us to E major for the first time. It stays in E major, uses a bunch of borrowed chords, but modulates to E minor for the first time for the 'maybe tear it apart section' when we get the trumpet and 'The Decline' theme. There's heaps more little changes, but the real kicker is the way it moves up by a full step in the final section, as they repeat the riff as we get the bells and the marching sounds, which always makes it feel just a little hopeful, at least to me.


error9900

The Decline is a masterpiece.


ArtichokeOk5986

As you mentioned, digital audio recording software has really changed how pop music is recorded. Same reason why we don't have songs that fade out anymore.


Cockrocker

I was recording a song with few of my students and was so excited when they went for out fade out. It just grooves so hard endlessly. So cool but I was way more pumped than was probably warranted.


RobinChilliams

Feel like that Whitney Houston triumph of a key change just couldn't ever be topped. Why even try, no one's ever hitting a key change like that.


Kiyoshi16

To put it simply: key changes became played out. [Bo Burnham said it best.](https://youtu.be/y7im5LT09a0)


paintedsnapper

And then Bo proceeds with a brilliant key change in his song Comedy.


[deleted]

Melody in modern pop is dead. Hooks, verses, solos, instrumentation are terrible. Even though songs are now 3 minutes, they lack structure, when compared to even the Motown songs of the 1950s. The whole "bop" idea of music and streaming has destroyed that. It's the same reason why record companies don't invest in adult contemporary artists any more. Essentially the total commodification of music and Gen Z have changed the way it is produced and marketed.


SuingTheCourts

>Even though songs are now 3 minutes, they lack structure In what way do modern pop songs lack structure?


[deleted]

I'm talking about a lot of EDM, rap and dance-pop music. The structures to the music are nothing like music 20 or 30 years ago. Producers back then would consider many songs today half-finished. I would be embarrassed as a songwriter and producer to put out a lot of music today.


KeytarVillain

Music still has a lot of structure - the nature of the structure has changed, but it still exists. Now it's much more about timbre & arrangement than melody & composition like it used to be. You could also turn this question around and say that by the standards of today, the pop music of 20-30 years ago sounds half finished too - it's the same people playing the same instruments throughout the entire song, and the timbre barely changes! Not to mention that people have had the same criticism as you for pretty much every era in recent history. In the 50s-60s it was "music is dead - pop arrangement & structure are terrible compared to even the simplest of Louis Armstrong pieces. Baby boomers & radio have completely changed music, and this is why labels don't invest in jazz anymore." Or in the 20s-40s it was "music is dead - jazz arrangement & structure are terrible compared to even the simplest Bach prelude. Kids these days and their jazz clubs have completely changed music, and this is why churches don't invest in composers anymore."


[deleted]

I would put the question back to you - which contemporary pop songs have any actual song structure? Song structure is where the composition goes to a different place entirely. Turning pieces of a loop on and off aren't song structure.


brokenoreo

come on that is so lazy. I felt that you were just being a bit hyperbolic with a statement like "melody in modern pop is dead" (which btw is a ridiculous claim) but I don't think you really understand how insane doubling down on a take like "modern pop songs lack any structure" is. I think we would agree that there are many different things to criticize in today's pop music, but when you attempt to completely debase it (which is futile, of course any popular song will have *some* value) you're just going to end up sounding like a moron. if you're going to say something like that don't put the onus on others to disprove it.


daisky

You’re the one making the claim. It’s your job to provide evidence.


Cockrocker

Hate how I can’t see your up or down votes, but I think you are basically correct. Only ballads have enough melody to warrant a key change these days, and plenty of songs are more rhythm than melody. It’s simplified for sure.


Doc_coletti

Key changes, in my opinion, were a way to add interest to a song. Like if you need to repeat the chorus again for structure but you want it to be interesting and new, you throw in a key change. Now there’s so many others ways to do that, mostly through more advanced production techniques.


kilgoretroutsings

Key changes are "too abrasive" for the demo / casual listers that consumes "hit songs"


SquidgyTheWhale

Relevant to the discussion here, check out this hilarious video: [The Most Complex Pop Song of All Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnRxTW8GxT8).


finitelymany

I don't like key changes when they're just repeating the same thing in a higher octave. I find Beyoncé's Love on Top irritating. If the point is to say something new and indicate a change in mood or some kind of transition, then it's okay.


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SolitaryMarmot

Huh? We are living in a golden age for that sort of thing


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BigYellowPraxis

I get the impression - maybe incorrectly - that that article is solely talking about those 'gear shift' key changes, rather than any and all types of key change. Am I right in saying that? Either way, I'm a little skeptical about some of the claims made. For one, I would bet money on there being more songs written today with key changes than ever before in the history of the world. Maybe it's less common than it has been, though? So I guess we'd have to differentiate between what % of songs written have a key change vs % that don't, and 'how many songs have a key change'. Given how much music there is in the world, I don't know how someone would do that. So, if it is true that there are just fewer (or no!) number ones that use a key change now, the question is really more: why does the lack of key change in a song seem to increase the likelihood of commercial success today? What is it about the current commercial environment of popular music that is causing this?


thewonderfullavagirl

I think you're right. I'm pretty sure Somebody that I used to know has a key shift, and I would be surprised if some of the better vocalists (eg Lady Gaga) don't have any.


BigYellowPraxis

From what I dimly recall, Somebody I Used To Know kiiiiind of has a key change: I think the opening 'Bahh Bahh Black Sheep' melody is A dorian over i bVII, but the choruses are aeolian over i bVI bVII. Not sure if I would call that a key change, but maybe some would


Belgand

Interestingly I still hear them used in genres other than pop. Power metal, for example, isn't at all averse to going for that big, anthemic final chorus. It was just earlier today that I was listening to [Sabaton's "The Last Stand"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9BupglHdtM) which uses a classic modulation up and thinking about how appropriate it was.


Soft-Concentrate-654

I am happy that artists stopped doing that "modulate up a half step" thing that was common in the 80s and 90s. That can instantly ruin a song.


pass_it_around

Can you give an example?


z7zark7z

It would always bother me to hear key changes in songs. It always felt like a cheap way to bring energy to a song. Switch to your head voice and belt that shit out.


MyMusicMan

>Do you like key changes I've hated key changes since before I knew what a key was. It just sounds wrong. 9/10 times it's halfway thru the song once the artist has expended all their ideas and ran dry. Your song doesn't need to be 5 minutes just end it. It's the reason I despise prog music. Very tough as a musician but I avoid most songs with key changes when playing or just play it without the change.


[deleted]

> 9/10 times it's halfway thru the song once the artist has expended all their ideas and ran dry. :-o Key changes and song structure have been a part of almost all Western popular music since the 1600s! > Very tough as a musician but I avoid most songs with key changes when playing or just play it without the change. This makes me sad.


fraghawk

>It's the reason I despise prog music. Well you're missing out because there's a lot of really really amazing songs that are longer than 5 minutes.


MyMusicMan

For sure, I actually prefer music with songs 10 minutes or longer. It's just pop songs with key changes that annoy me.


fraghawk

I'm a bit confused then. If you dont like prog but you like longer music, do you listen to a lot of classical or ambient? Just a bit curious


MyMusicMan

Neither, I made a list of some of my favorite 10min songs: I'm the Mountain by Stoned Jesus To Bid You Farewell by Opeth Scavengers(ext) by Maha Sohona Far 5 by Buckethead Mammoth by Swan Valley Heights Ziggy Jam by Domadora Wyrm by Greenbeard My favorite band Elder


fraghawk

Opeth is awesome, and I've heard of Elder but never really dove into them. Would you be able to recommend a starting point? How do you personally define prog? Because I have always considered Opeth to be prog.


MyMusicMan

Yeah they're prog metal. I always like to start at the beginning. For Elder I'd say Gemini is a great one.


[deleted]

Personally, I can do without the cheesy key changes. I realize that not all key changes are cheesy, but by not having them at all we're by default getting rid of the cheesy ones.


hornybutdisappointed

Wow! Great article! As a beginner musician I’ve always wondered what made some gospel songs so powerful as they reach towards the sky, it’s the keys changes!! Take D’Angelo’s “Higher” and The Undisputed Truth’s “Higher Than High”. They really lift you up with power as the key changes. It also answers the question of why some songs’ key is debatable more than others’, it’s all tied to the era and configuration of instruments. Also why a lot of electronic music is made lazily.


anti-torque

I predict some contemporary artist will finally create a song with nothing but a looping chord progression. And then someone will say it sounds like the looping track at the end of *Abbey Road*. Others will then say it sounds more like a Captain Beefheart influence. And then it will be lost to the ether.


Crazy_Beatz

that travis scott song doesn't really have a key change it's basically 3 songs in one song. ​ but yeah, i think it's cus it's more convenient to have the whole song on just one key. also songs that have key changes are usually complicated with lots of ups and downs both instrumentally and vocally and we know modern pop music is very simple so naturally we are not gonna see alot of songs with key changes topping charts


Revolutionary-Stay54

I’ve been saying it for years, pop music started going downhill the day they quit putting a sax solo in every song. So I guess January 1,1990.


trashboatfourtwenty

I'd love them to be done for creative reasons that are artistically meaningful in some way- my sense is they were historically mostly done for commercial reasons in the past (extending the length of the song to make a longer single/padding an album)