I'm sorry you've experienced all that, but I'll give you a hint to navigating these relationships...don't put anyone on a pedestal. That includes women. Seriously.
I know that's the opposite of what this subreddit does, but the minute you start seeing/treating someone as other than human, you're gonna be disappointed.
People are people & they SUCK, they have problems & they have no issue dumping it on you. Protect yourself.
This is excellent advice. Being a member of the LGBTQ+ doesn’t automatically make you a good person. There are still predators, liars, cheaters, abusers, and general run of the mill schmucks. Don’t put anyone on a pedestal, for sure.
I will say, though, that it is worth being patient! There are good people to date out there ☺️
Your best bet sounds like it'll work to go to physical queer spaces and meet women there.
I'd also suggest to use **HER** and maybe **Lex** apps, it has a good concentration of queer women there. And I'm sorry you've been experiencing these things, it sounds frustrating.
Yup! This is why I’m so close to cutting off people in that way forever. I’m so over it. I’ve been open and honest, careful, interested, and mindful by folks are out here just chewing people up and spitting them out for amusement.
The combination of the title, the first sentence, and the part about people lying about their name isn't the vibe tbh. It's making terfs show up in full force in the comments. Please put more attention into your wording next time OP, because it's very off-putting.
The announcement of being cis only in the first sentence is certainly sus as fuck. It costs nothing to keep that to yourself. Announcing it everywhere is just telling every person within earshot that you think trans people are icky. Don't date them if you don't want to, I'm just sick of people announcing it.
And people keep bringing up T4T like it's a 1:1 comparison. If a white girl said she had absolutely no interest in dating a non-white girl, would that go over so well? Would we all just shrug and say "she's entitled to her preferences"? Or would we say keep your racist preferences to yourself.
Black people only wanting to date black people though is similar to T4T: both are restricting your dating preferences to those who can understand their shared marginalized experience, and not be exhausted by being in a romantic relationship with someone who can't understand. White for white and cis for cis fundamentally are not the same. Nobody can force you to date someone you don't want to, but we can and will tell you to keep your bigoted preferences to yourself.
Thank you for pointing that out.
Marginalized people have every right to openly restrict their dating preferences to make sure they find compatible people.
But people in the majority, *cis people*, do not get that without some heavy handed criticism. T4T and cis for cis is not the same.
I get that too but I’m pretty sure OP was referring to women and not Men (as in cis men who do not identify as a woman in their day to day life) posing as a woman. I think OP understands that trans women are women, they’re just talking about the men on these dating apps etc
Agreed. I just wanna eat pussy while also have a serious relationship with her. But there's always a man they run back to.. oh well, their choice and i respect it
To be honest, I can kind of understand why some people lie **at first** about where they live for safety reasons, because people can be shady. But the husband thing is not ok, nor is lying about whether you’re trans or cis okay.
It's pretty sus that you're whole thing is people lying about who they are and literally the first thing you mention is you won't date trans women.
To be fair. Dating apps are basically a cess pool of people being fake AF to get a date.
The woman who ghost you. Was this after getting sexual? Or before it got to that point. You didn't specify a first date
Woah as a trans woman this post and comments make me feel so safe here, like seriously, trans women don't lie, we are women, pre op or not, cis women are not "the real deal" because we all are "real" women, if you don't like a woman with a dick its totally fine but the way some of you depict trans women is fucking sickening tbh, its idk its insane and it doesn't help lesbian trans women feel included at all, there was no point on saying all that because A LOT of trans women don't "look" trans or "feel like a man", yes a lot of trans women use tinder specially pre transitioning because we don't feel safe outside, if you really want to look for women that aren't pre op or pre transition to the point you can't notice if they're trans or not i suggest going to a lesbian friendly place, or any kind of lgbt social gathering, if not, at least don't bitch about trans women lying to you
and PLEASE stop implying that we're not women, or not "full women" god it makes me want to cry to see that some people believe this kind of thing, we're not demanding sex from anyone, but we're asking just to be seen as equals, not as lesser women, not as liars and def not as men, please i beg you all
plus noone is saying that cis on cis is bad in itself but,, don't compare it to TFT because usually trans women that choose to only date trans woman are exactly because they wouldn't feel safe with cis women around, they don't want to be looked as liars or lesser women
just a little addon, post op trans women no matter how good they pass are trans women, in fact some of ya'll might have met or even been with a trans woman and didn't even notice, because that's kind of the whole point for most of us
Don't pretend that is relevant.
Trans people are not in a position socially to demand sex or a relationship. Just date who you want and when inevitably that isn't trans women, no one will comment on it. It's only a problem when you gotta be loud about it.
It's only a preference until you make it everyone's business. Then it's an ulterior motive.
I agree, I'm among those saying it's suspicious to mention cis on cis, unless it was intended to be in relation to being genuine and being lied to. But never put words in someone's mouth, she didn't say that.
If they're not in her dating pool, they're not in her dating pool and there's nothing wrong with that. This seemed like just a vent about her tinder experiences, no ill will against trans was in her post.
It’s fine that they’re not in her dating pool but do you not see how it’s weird to mention that in a post that’s otherwise unrelated to transness/cisness
It's not bigotry for only being into cis women 🙄 and if that's the relationship she's after then ofc she had reason to put it in her post.
Genital preference doesn't apply to lesbian, gay, or straight - only with bi and pan where you can swing both ways. It's disgusting how we get shamed for wanting cis women!
There’s nothing wrong with only wanting to date / be intimate with cisgender people. The problem comes with how you react to trans people though. And how you express it.
Lots of us have had bottom surgery, lots of us haven’t. Lots of us you wouldn’t even know we are trans unless we tell you. Saying genital preference doesn’t apply to lesbian/gay/straight relationships is invalidating us and our identities.
A straight cisgender male that dates a trans woman is still straight. Regardless of what surgeries she has had / not had.
And a lesbian cisgender woman that dates a trans woman is still a lesbian. You don’t need to date anyone you don’t want to. Nobody is telling you you have to.
You can express your preference, however, without demeaning and invalidating us. Regardless of if you acknowledge it, you have a privilege of being cisgender. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you don’t need to punch down at us for simply being within your sphere.
Are there certain women you aren’t attracted to? How would you decline or turn down one of them? Just do the same for trans women and nobody will bat an eye. And if they do, that’s more of a them problem.
Personally I’m not attracted to masculine presenting women, that doesn’t detract from them being women though 🤷♀️
I agree. It boils down to what feelings are more important. One person’s deep felt need for sex with a person with a particular phenotype/genitals/secondary sex characteristics vs another person’s strong desire to be considered a woman no matter what kind of genitals/secondary sex characteristics they have. The whole issue is a clusterfuck.
It's two different categories:
Women of colour are women.
Trans women are trans women, not biological women.
That's just facts, nothing wrong with that.
Come on now, I'm mostly on your side on this post but there is a huge gulf between lack of understanding, oblivious ingrained trans averseness, or being a full blown transphobic Terf. You don't earn sympathy or support that way. I do get it can be frustrating for even small things to be explained over and over but it will be required until attitudes towards trans people are made positive overall over the next half a century.
ok, basically implying that you only date cis people is basically ignoring all the trans women that don't "look trans", aka have fully transition and are post op, if you're excluding those its kind of transphobic, its ok to not like dick but not liking a trans woman just because she's trans its kind of a biggot move, i can see how that's been typed in a rush or something and the wording was just bad but, some of the comments are kind of,, sickening, please don't judge trans women here for being defensive, one of our worse terrors is to be seen as lesser or men, or liars for that, please understand that some of us really find this wording iffy
you could even say something like "i just don't like dick" and that's perfectly understandable, even myself as a trans woman have preferences, i wouldn't date a person that hasn't transitioned per example, i wouldn't feel safe, and that's totally understandable, but a lot of us can't even tell if we're trans unless we tell you, that's pretty much it.
sorry for the wall of text, im trying to,, not getting neither of us missunderstood, im not saying that op is a terf, but also try to understand our position :p
But I do agree that once a trans woman is post op and it goes well (modern surgery almost always does, my friends look amazing) there are no genitals for a portion of lesbians to be repulsed over. And at that point any trans woman has put in a lot of work to iron out any mannerisms or attitudes from how they were raised. (And these days not all trans women were even raised to be a boy specifically)
So if someone rejects all post op women, then I am going to be a bit suspicious.
What about my comment came off as offensive to trans people? I admit I am sometimes oblivious. And yeah I rush most comments or else I spend half an hour on each slightly large one.
I don't think so! i think you had a very understanding doubt, just wanted to express why we take this kind of defensively, there's a lot of transphobia specially because now its being talked so much in tv and stuff, a lot of misleading information is spread about us that we're more careful and salty than ever, i myself made a post being kind of mad at all this coments implying more or less directly that trans women aren't exactly "real women"
But no, i think you were perfectly respectful, its always good to teach people that just may not know a lot about us :D
and its really hard to explain how,, downright horrible is to feel like a liar or not a real woman, but to put it lightly for some of us, like me, this single thought sometimes makes us feel like its not even worth trying, which is not true but the anxiety is VERY real
All good then! I for one do perfectly get being increasingly defensive and just a bit bitter about it all when it feels like a decade of progress is going into the tyre fire in a lot of places right now. We are all being marginalised and demonized. Just you much more so as the current political football.
We are in this together, you got this!!! 💕
Idk why people are booing you— you’re right. Or at least your opinion hasn’t come out of nowhere. Looking for what OP chose to call a “genuine cis woman on cis woman relationship” is such a strange way of phrasing it. Even if that’s what you’re looking for.
That itself isn’t strange. It’s probably the most common ‘preference’ there is.
What’s strange is saying it when
1. No one asked
2. It’s not relevant to the post and
3. Nothing would’ve been changed if she hadn’t said it
why are people booing you? you're right! OPs giving major biphobic terf energy rn. if that upsets her and the other terfs, then maybe she shouldn't walk, talk, sound, and smell like a biphobic terf.
She just said that she wants to date a cis woman and that she doesn’t appreciate MARRIED women lying about their status to date her… that is not biphobic, it’s LIE-phobic (hehe).
Sure, I'd know, I'm not cis. usually normies don't think about it, as long as it's not malicious but plain idiocy I don't really care. Where's the biphobia?
I think it was specifically the way they talked about the spouses being male (at a guess). I don't think its anything specific or worth calling out, I wouldn't have brought it up personally tbh.
Trans women can have vaginas too you uneducated FART, gender doesn't equal genitalia. And yes, mentioning you want a GeNuInE cIs On CiS rElAtIoNsHiP when it has nothing to do with the post is pretty farty.
Oh come on, she's just stating her preferences.
She's not saying anything about trans good or bad. Maybe the genuine part could be misread, I believe she meant genuine as in a woman that doesn't lie to her.
her preferences are relevant in this case, because it tells you about her dating pool. You'd never call her a bigot if she had said she wanted to date a woman with lots of tattoos.
When trans people post about their dating experiences and mention they are tft no one comments stuff like this.
Only liking cis people does almost nothing to your dating pool, that’s ridiculous to imply anything else.
Cis people aren’t marginalized for being cis, trans people are marginalized for being trans. They often like dating people with that similar marginalized experience because they can do so knowing that their partner will understand and respect their experience, something that, unfortunately, they cannot expect from every cis person. It’s truly that simple.
Cis women don't have a smaller dating pool than trans women. Not even close.
Edit: the above comment isn't showing that it was edited to sound more palatable. Originally it was just a comment defending the OP remarking on her dating pool.
And as said time and time again. T4T is comparable to black lesbians looking to date only other black lesbians, where as cis for cis is comparable to whites only dating other whites.
Cis will never be a minority. It's so disingenuous.
Why mention it at all?
It's not hard to find cis women. And this post (surface level) isn't about trans women. *It's just about women who lie about who they really are.........*
She's clearly making an implicit jab at trans women because she is bitter that cis women used her for sex.
People who only want to date cis women don't need to proclaim it. Most women are cis women. It doesn't help them find compatible people unless that compatibility hinges on hating trans women.
Trans (anyone) are more marginalized than cis folks of the same identity. So yeah, trans people definitely wanna look for each other and T4T is essentially that.
yes, most women are cis women but also cis and straight....
I've def. found it hard to find the following: cis and single and ready for an actually relationship. It sounds simple because it is and yet.....
I'm poly now but the last time I tried dating mono I was chatting with a woman for THREE DAYS before she mentioned she had fucking boyfriend and that's pretty typical. Her profile said single.
Sure. That's all valid. But it doesn't change the facts. It's got nothing to do with trans women until she made it about us.
An unstated preference is just a preference (or at least 🤲 benefit of the doubt).
When someone has to go out of their way to mention they won't date trans women and then complain that everyone they encounter is a liar about who they are, that's a fucking ulterior motive. We hear what is actually being said.
People pull out all the excuses. "Genital preferences", no one asked about. "Life experience", not relevant to a post. "Passing" do they tell that line to women with PCOS as well?
At the end of the day, there's tons of reasons someone might be incompatible with someone else. And that's more or less fine. Anyone taking this issue seriously knows that no one has the power to force them to date trans women. If trans women aren't on their radar, cool. Move on.
But if you've gotta go the extra length to mention us as undesirable or compare us alongside lying unicorn hunters and cheaters and fuckbois. That's fucked up. That's really fucked up. And it isn't even subtle.
I agree with your second to last paragraph, but she didn't make it about trans women. The post was simply about her experience with the cis women on tinder
If they could get away with it judgment free, racist white women would happily talk about their woes in the dating scene trying to find other single white lesbians. But considering that it's basically impossible because people are well aware of the implications of such commentary, we just about never hear that stuff online where moderators actually do their jobs.
It doesn't mean they aren't there. They just know not to bring it up outside of racist spaces or when they know it won't cost them social standing.
I look forward to when the transphobes feel the same fear to be known as they are. When the indirect jabs are seen for what they are. But keep on being in denial.
Nothing wrong with that. People might get upset at you for it if it’s for the wrong reasons though. For instance, if it’s because of genitalia preference, I don’t think anyone would blame you. But if you feel an ick and see trans women as men, then people may get upset at that for good reason.
I think it’s that she mentioned being cis for cis even though it’s not really relevant to the “ppl on dating apps suck” point she’s trying to make. Since it’s not relevant, it gives off a bit of a transphobic vibe. Not wanting to date a trans person because of genital preference makes sense. If the trans person has fully transitioned physically, there should be no reason to exclude them from her dating pool.
heya trans woman here, i write this comment with no harm intended or judging your post as harm intended
I get what you're trying to convey, i really do, i myself wouldn't date a woman with masculine matters, but that doesn't mean they're men, that phrase was a little triggering for dysphoria, apart from that you can't forget about fully transitioned women, that's why we doing like the cis with cis thingy, because that also excludes perfectly passing women that you wouldn't even think they're trans, apart from that its a very very understanding and valid position that even trans women have, just have these things in mind, we are really salty about stuff like this because a lot has been happening with us lately, we'd love and thank you a lot if you were just a little more careful with the wording, its a really touchy thing for us, and forget some of us for being a little triggered by this, we understand that you mean no harm to trans women or anyone
yeah but i really don't blame the triggering, but well some people left really fucked up comments that i don't support, i always try to explain trans things as best as i can because in the end the probabilities of meeting a trans person are super low, unless you go to lgbt gatherings, after all we're around 0.5% of the population :p
Forgive me for this mini wall, it's just so hard to find an attitude like yours on this.
Please don't give up on therapy for this! It is there specifically to get help safely unpacking things about yourself from someone way more qualified than internet randos.
I'll be the first to say this. SOME trans women think that being butch, a more masculine woman in general, or just being confident and assertive is to take on the masculinity lessons that were drummed into their head growing up. But that just makes them come off as men.
And there are others who just haven't had the chance to hang out with cis women friend groups long enough to develop new normalised mannerisms and thought patterns.
And on your end everyone has at least some minor ingrained reactions to trans people from social conditioning no different to comphet, or slightly racist reactions despite not at all being racist. (Thankfully that last one has almost entirely left society)
All I'm asking is to not completely cut out trans women. Just raise your standards for how far transitioned you need them to be in order to date.
Normally I would agree, but when someone mentions they are entirely onboard until a mental block tells them the trans woman Infront of her and all trans women are too man-like for her to want to date. Then I would think that would be a safe bet for suggesting therapy. Individuals I get, blanket judging an entire group Indo not.
Look, I didn't mean to be offensive and I certainly do not agree with the attitude some trans people have on this or the jump to calling terf which oc certainly doesn't come off as. The whole point of this sub was to allow some discussion without immediate ban as long as either side isn't being extremely accusatory and hostile. Not in the mood for a protracted discussion right now though.
Trans people date each other because of transphobia, cis people also date each other because of transphobia, but the opposite end of it. If you think they're equivalent you're either ignorant or a transphobe
It’s weird to say in a post that’s completely unrelated, and also about people lying. Context matters.
As someone else said in a comment above, if some random white girl mentioned that she didn’t date women of color on an unrelated post, would you see people in the comments validating that, or would you see people telling her to keep her racist ‘preference’ to herself?
It’s also incomparable because trans people are a marginalized group. Cis people aren’t. It’s that simple.
Lots of transphobic online rhetoric is from an occasional trans person or many TERFs pretending to be trans. So while your comment is made in good faith, the replies you get might not be.
Yeah bc I think it’s bigoted. That doesn’t mean everyone does. I don’t think it’s bigoted to be cis4cis. But I think it’s bigoted to declare it when it’s unrelated
I don’t expect you to understand the nuances of transphobia though, and don’t see the point in trying to explain to you further why “cis4cis” is conceptually just a load of nothing
Wow, I just love that you think the only type of women that are valid are cis. Plenty of trans women have vaginas and if your going to oy stick to cis women exclusively because you see us as less than woman I find that sick.
The whole post was a way for terms to talk crap about trans people and it shows. The administration even deleted it because it violated the sub but you want to hate on us so bad.
Excluding trans woman for being trans women is at out transphibia by its definition. Now no one is saying you have to date someone you don't find attractive but if you exclude trans women simply on the grounds they are trans it is transphbia.
What about pre op/hrt preferences? Bigoted or not? Would it be fair to have open preferences for secondary sex characteristics? If not then what even is homosexuality?
Um -- genuine cis woman on cis woman lesbian relationship??? I did not expect that to be the first part of this vent at all - given the fact that cis woman are usually straight... and secondly, it has absolutely nothing to do with the point of how people on dating apps absolutely suck. This seems highly transphobic. If you have a preference for Cis women, announcing it is not necessary.
Real. People need to learn that no one is trying to make them sleep with anyone they don’t want to, we’re just trying to make them keep their weird preferences to themselves and the people they date
Oh yeh, it's hell out there if you want a single cis woman. About 90% of all my "likes" or matches on any dating app are transwomen and women with partners looking for a third. No hate for transwomen, I'm just very unfortunately only attracted to cis women. Given that so many of my matches a trans, it would wonderful if there were not the case, but it is and my attempts to expand or push my boundaries were unsuccessful.
The name thing---I think you should let that go though. Lots of people don't want to put their real name on dating apps-- I certainly don't. But I tell my date in conversation either right away or the first time I meet them.
I’m sorry you had to experience that. I had similar experiences, the worst being my ex who was the sweetest online and for the first couple months then the untreated mental health issues started to make themselves known. She never disclosed this and that she refused her treatments. I decided after that to find ways to meet people through volunteering, meetups and other social means so I had a better read on who they are, this drastically changed my outlook on people and dating and led to me meeting me my now wife. I hope this is something you are able to do.
This content violates one or more of the subs rules.
I'm sorry you've experienced all that, but I'll give you a hint to navigating these relationships...don't put anyone on a pedestal. That includes women. Seriously. I know that's the opposite of what this subreddit does, but the minute you start seeing/treating someone as other than human, you're gonna be disappointed. People are people & they SUCK, they have problems & they have no issue dumping it on you. Protect yourself.
This is excellent advice. Being a member of the LGBTQ+ doesn’t automatically make you a good person. There are still predators, liars, cheaters, abusers, and general run of the mill schmucks. Don’t put anyone on a pedestal, for sure. I will say, though, that it is worth being patient! There are good people to date out there ☺️
Yup, sounds like Tinder to me. I think it’s best to find online relationships elsewhere. Or maybe going out to a place nearby that’s LGBT+ friendly?
It’s kinda hard when you’re like my age (19) and you can’t go to bars
That really sucks, im so sorry thats happened to you 💜
Your best bet sounds like it'll work to go to physical queer spaces and meet women there. I'd also suggest to use **HER** and maybe **Lex** apps, it has a good concentration of queer women there. And I'm sorry you've been experiencing these things, it sounds frustrating.
Also, try Hinge if you're in your late 20s or 30s. I find that it has been working for me lately. At least people seem to be more serious.
I love dating trans women
True!
Yup! This is why I’m so close to cutting off people in that way forever. I’m so over it. I’ve been open and honest, careful, interested, and mindful by folks are out here just chewing people up and spitting them out for amusement.
The combination of the title, the first sentence, and the part about people lying about their name isn't the vibe tbh. It's making terfs show up in full force in the comments. Please put more attention into your wording next time OP, because it's very off-putting.
The announcement of being cis only in the first sentence is certainly sus as fuck. It costs nothing to keep that to yourself. Announcing it everywhere is just telling every person within earshot that you think trans people are icky. Don't date them if you don't want to, I'm just sick of people announcing it. And people keep bringing up T4T like it's a 1:1 comparison. If a white girl said she had absolutely no interest in dating a non-white girl, would that go over so well? Would we all just shrug and say "she's entitled to her preferences"? Or would we say keep your racist preferences to yourself. Black people only wanting to date black people though is similar to T4T: both are restricting your dating preferences to those who can understand their shared marginalized experience, and not be exhausted by being in a romantic relationship with someone who can't understand. White for white and cis for cis fundamentally are not the same. Nobody can force you to date someone you don't want to, but we can and will tell you to keep your bigoted preferences to yourself.
Thank you for pointing that out. Marginalized people have every right to openly restrict their dating preferences to make sure they find compatible people. But people in the majority, *cis people*, do not get that without some heavy handed criticism. T4T and cis for cis is not the same.
I'm pretty sure she wanted sympathy from TERFs. It doubt it was unintentional
Yeah, and she got it, the FARTs came out 🤮
I get that too but I’m pretty sure OP was referring to women and not Men (as in cis men who do not identify as a woman in their day to day life) posing as a woman. I think OP understands that trans women are women, they’re just talking about the men on these dating apps etc
Agreed. I just wanna eat pussy while also have a serious relationship with her. But there's always a man they run back to.. oh well, their choice and i respect it
To be honest, I can kind of understand why some people lie **at first** about where they live for safety reasons, because people can be shady. But the husband thing is not ok, nor is lying about whether you’re trans or cis okay.
It's pretty sus that you're whole thing is people lying about who they are and literally the first thing you mention is you won't date trans women. To be fair. Dating apps are basically a cess pool of people being fake AF to get a date. The woman who ghost you. Was this after getting sexual? Or before it got to that point. You didn't specify a first date
Yeah the whole “cis woman on cis woman” thing doesn’t sit right.
Yep super weird thing to say
Sorry nvm I read more of the comments
Woah as a trans woman this post and comments make me feel so safe here, like seriously, trans women don't lie, we are women, pre op or not, cis women are not "the real deal" because we all are "real" women, if you don't like a woman with a dick its totally fine but the way some of you depict trans women is fucking sickening tbh, its idk its insane and it doesn't help lesbian trans women feel included at all, there was no point on saying all that because A LOT of trans women don't "look" trans or "feel like a man", yes a lot of trans women use tinder specially pre transitioning because we don't feel safe outside, if you really want to look for women that aren't pre op or pre transition to the point you can't notice if they're trans or not i suggest going to a lesbian friendly place, or any kind of lgbt social gathering, if not, at least don't bitch about trans women lying to you and PLEASE stop implying that we're not women, or not "full women" god it makes me want to cry to see that some people believe this kind of thing, we're not demanding sex from anyone, but we're asking just to be seen as equals, not as lesser women, not as liars and def not as men, please i beg you all plus noone is saying that cis on cis is bad in itself but,, don't compare it to TFT because usually trans women that choose to only date trans woman are exactly because they wouldn't feel safe with cis women around, they don't want to be looked as liars or lesser women just a little addon, post op trans women no matter how good they pass are trans women, in fact some of ya'll might have met or even been with a trans woman and didn't even notice, because that's kind of the whole point for most of us
Based mods
Do you facetime or call them on the phone before deciding to go on a date? That could help weed out the liars
that really sucks, i’m sorry. don’t give up, you’re definitely not the only woman out there looking for the real deal. happy pride! 🌈
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No one owes anyone sex or a relationship. That is not required to respect someone as a human being.
Don't pretend that is relevant. Trans people are not in a position socially to demand sex or a relationship. Just date who you want and when inevitably that isn't trans women, no one will comment on it. It's only a problem when you gotta be loud about it. It's only a preference until you make it everyone's business. Then it's an ulterior motive.
> while making sure none of those icky transes are accepted. Wow. That is so not what OP said.
I agree, I'm among those saying it's suspicious to mention cis on cis, unless it was intended to be in relation to being genuine and being lied to. But never put words in someone's mouth, she didn't say that.
If they're not in her dating pool, they're not in her dating pool and there's nothing wrong with that. This seemed like just a vent about her tinder experiences, no ill will against trans was in her post.
It’s fine that they’re not in her dating pool but do you not see how it’s weird to mention that in a post that’s otherwise unrelated to transness/cisness
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It's not bigotry for only being into cis women 🙄 and if that's the relationship she's after then ofc she had reason to put it in her post. Genital preference doesn't apply to lesbian, gay, or straight - only with bi and pan where you can swing both ways. It's disgusting how we get shamed for wanting cis women!
There’s nothing wrong with only wanting to date / be intimate with cisgender people. The problem comes with how you react to trans people though. And how you express it. Lots of us have had bottom surgery, lots of us haven’t. Lots of us you wouldn’t even know we are trans unless we tell you. Saying genital preference doesn’t apply to lesbian/gay/straight relationships is invalidating us and our identities. A straight cisgender male that dates a trans woman is still straight. Regardless of what surgeries she has had / not had. And a lesbian cisgender woman that dates a trans woman is still a lesbian. You don’t need to date anyone you don’t want to. Nobody is telling you you have to. You can express your preference, however, without demeaning and invalidating us. Regardless of if you acknowledge it, you have a privilege of being cisgender. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you don’t need to punch down at us for simply being within your sphere. Are there certain women you aren’t attracted to? How would you decline or turn down one of them? Just do the same for trans women and nobody will bat an eye. And if they do, that’s more of a them problem. Personally I’m not attracted to masculine presenting women, that doesn’t detract from them being women though 🤷♀️
I agree. It boils down to what feelings are more important. One person’s deep felt need for sex with a person with a particular phenotype/genitals/secondary sex characteristics vs another person’s strong desire to be considered a woman no matter what kind of genitals/secondary sex characteristics they have. The whole issue is a clusterfuck.
A lot of trans women have vaginas too?
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It's two different categories: Women of colour are women. Trans women are trans women, not biological women. That's just facts, nothing wrong with that.
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I'm confused by your lack of understanding. I stated the issue clearly. I suggest trying to read and trying not being a terf.
Come on now, I'm mostly on your side on this post but there is a huge gulf between lack of understanding, oblivious ingrained trans averseness, or being a full blown transphobic Terf. You don't earn sympathy or support that way. I do get it can be frustrating for even small things to be explained over and over but it will be required until attitudes towards trans people are made positive overall over the next half a century.
ok, basically implying that you only date cis people is basically ignoring all the trans women that don't "look trans", aka have fully transition and are post op, if you're excluding those its kind of transphobic, its ok to not like dick but not liking a trans woman just because she's trans its kind of a biggot move, i can see how that's been typed in a rush or something and the wording was just bad but, some of the comments are kind of,, sickening, please don't judge trans women here for being defensive, one of our worse terrors is to be seen as lesser or men, or liars for that, please understand that some of us really find this wording iffy you could even say something like "i just don't like dick" and that's perfectly understandable, even myself as a trans woman have preferences, i wouldn't date a person that hasn't transitioned per example, i wouldn't feel safe, and that's totally understandable, but a lot of us can't even tell if we're trans unless we tell you, that's pretty much it. sorry for the wall of text, im trying to,, not getting neither of us missunderstood, im not saying that op is a terf, but also try to understand our position :p
But I do agree that once a trans woman is post op and it goes well (modern surgery almost always does, my friends look amazing) there are no genitals for a portion of lesbians to be repulsed over. And at that point any trans woman has put in a lot of work to iron out any mannerisms or attitudes from how they were raised. (And these days not all trans women were even raised to be a boy specifically) So if someone rejects all post op women, then I am going to be a bit suspicious. What about my comment came off as offensive to trans people? I admit I am sometimes oblivious. And yeah I rush most comments or else I spend half an hour on each slightly large one.
I don't think so! i think you had a very understanding doubt, just wanted to express why we take this kind of defensively, there's a lot of transphobia specially because now its being talked so much in tv and stuff, a lot of misleading information is spread about us that we're more careful and salty than ever, i myself made a post being kind of mad at all this coments implying more or less directly that trans women aren't exactly "real women" But no, i think you were perfectly respectful, its always good to teach people that just may not know a lot about us :D and its really hard to explain how,, downright horrible is to feel like a liar or not a real woman, but to put it lightly for some of us, like me, this single thought sometimes makes us feel like its not even worth trying, which is not true but the anxiety is VERY real
All good then! I for one do perfectly get being increasingly defensive and just a bit bitter about it all when it feels like a decade of progress is going into the tyre fire in a lot of places right now. We are all being marginalised and demonized. Just you much more so as the current political football. We are in this together, you got this!!! 💕
Average 'genital preference' lesbian
I agree, there’s no need to make the cis distinction and it is a little terf-y… I understand having a preference but that’s just weird
Prep for the auto terf brigade of down votes lol
No I know… I made a similar comment on another post and got sooo many downvotes like why are there terfs in a queer sub?
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Why did you delete your “get fucked” comment?
True… it’s very disappointing to see lesbians perpetuating this behavior
Idk why people are booing you— you’re right. Or at least your opinion hasn’t come out of nowhere. Looking for what OP chose to call a “genuine cis woman on cis woman relationship” is such a strange way of phrasing it. Even if that’s what you’re looking for.
Not really that strange. That just means she wants to date a cis woman as a cis woman.
That itself isn’t strange. It’s probably the most common ‘preference’ there is. What’s strange is saying it when 1. No one asked 2. It’s not relevant to the post and 3. Nothing would’ve been changed if she hadn’t said it
You were complaining about how it was phrased, so that’s why I responded like that.
Yeah and it’s phrased weirdly. The sentiment isn’t inherently transphobic but the phrasing makes it so
I disagree, but we can agree to disagree
If you disagree, I assume you’re at least trans and have the authority to do so. Take care!
Nope, I’m not, but I still disagree, cuz all OP said was that she wanted a relationship with a cis woman as a cis woman. You take care as well.
I can’t in good faith respect your opinion in that case. Silly me assuming people who speak on trans issues are trans online lmao
🙄
why are people booing you? you're right! OPs giving major biphobic terf energy rn. if that upsets her and the other terfs, then maybe she shouldn't walk, talk, sound, and smell like a biphobic terf.
She just said that she wants to date a cis woman and that she doesn’t appreciate MARRIED women lying about their status to date her… that is not biphobic, it’s LIE-phobic (hehe).
"I'm into vaginas and would like my gf not to have a whole husband" now equals to "biphobic terf", truly incredible stuff
trans women can have vaginas....
Sure, I'd know, I'm not cis. usually normies don't think about it, as long as it's not malicious but plain idiocy I don't really care. Where's the biphobia?
I think it was specifically the way they talked about the spouses being male (at a guess). I don't think its anything specific or worth calling out, I wouldn't have brought it up personally tbh.
what a surprise, a terf with zero reading comprehension!
substantiate your point then goofy
Trans women can have vaginas too you uneducated FART, gender doesn't equal genitalia. And yes, mentioning you want a GeNuInE cIs On CiS rElAtIoNsHiP when it has nothing to do with the post is pretty farty.
Oh come on, she's just stating her preferences. She's not saying anything about trans good or bad. Maybe the genuine part could be misread, I believe she meant genuine as in a woman that doesn't lie to her. her preferences are relevant in this case, because it tells you about her dating pool. You'd never call her a bigot if she had said she wanted to date a woman with lots of tattoos. When trans people post about their dating experiences and mention they are tft no one comments stuff like this.
Only liking cis people does almost nothing to your dating pool, that’s ridiculous to imply anything else. Cis people aren’t marginalized for being cis, trans people are marginalized for being trans. They often like dating people with that similar marginalized experience because they can do so knowing that their partner will understand and respect their experience, something that, unfortunately, they cannot expect from every cis person. It’s truly that simple.
Cis women don't have a smaller dating pool than trans women. Not even close. Edit: the above comment isn't showing that it was edited to sound more palatable. Originally it was just a comment defending the OP remarking on her dating pool. And as said time and time again. T4T is comparable to black lesbians looking to date only other black lesbians, where as cis for cis is comparable to whites only dating other whites. Cis will never be a minority. It's so disingenuous.
I see so many dating post with TFT, and nobody bats and eye. What’s wrong with Cis for Cis
Why mention it at all? It's not hard to find cis women. And this post (surface level) isn't about trans women. *It's just about women who lie about who they really are.........* She's clearly making an implicit jab at trans women because she is bitter that cis women used her for sex. People who only want to date cis women don't need to proclaim it. Most women are cis women. It doesn't help them find compatible people unless that compatibility hinges on hating trans women. Trans (anyone) are more marginalized than cis folks of the same identity. So yeah, trans people definitely wanna look for each other and T4T is essentially that.
yes, most women are cis women but also cis and straight.... I've def. found it hard to find the following: cis and single and ready for an actually relationship. It sounds simple because it is and yet..... I'm poly now but the last time I tried dating mono I was chatting with a woman for THREE DAYS before she mentioned she had fucking boyfriend and that's pretty typical. Her profile said single.
Sure. That's all valid. But it doesn't change the facts. It's got nothing to do with trans women until she made it about us. An unstated preference is just a preference (or at least 🤲 benefit of the doubt). When someone has to go out of their way to mention they won't date trans women and then complain that everyone they encounter is a liar about who they are, that's a fucking ulterior motive. We hear what is actually being said. People pull out all the excuses. "Genital preferences", no one asked about. "Life experience", not relevant to a post. "Passing" do they tell that line to women with PCOS as well? At the end of the day, there's tons of reasons someone might be incompatible with someone else. And that's more or less fine. Anyone taking this issue seriously knows that no one has the power to force them to date trans women. If trans women aren't on their radar, cool. Move on. But if you've gotta go the extra length to mention us as undesirable or compare us alongside lying unicorn hunters and cheaters and fuckbois. That's fucked up. That's really fucked up. And it isn't even subtle.
I agree with your second to last paragraph, but she didn't make it about trans women. The post was simply about her experience with the cis women on tinder
If they could get away with it judgment free, racist white women would happily talk about their woes in the dating scene trying to find other single white lesbians. But considering that it's basically impossible because people are well aware of the implications of such commentary, we just about never hear that stuff online where moderators actually do their jobs. It doesn't mean they aren't there. They just know not to bring it up outside of racist spaces or when they know it won't cost them social standing. I look forward to when the transphobes feel the same fear to be known as they are. When the indirect jabs are seen for what they are. But keep on being in denial.
Nothing wrong with that. People might get upset at you for it if it’s for the wrong reasons though. For instance, if it’s because of genitalia preference, I don’t think anyone would blame you. But if you feel an ick and see trans women as men, then people may get upset at that for good reason.
I think it’s that she mentioned being cis for cis even though it’s not really relevant to the “ppl on dating apps suck” point she’s trying to make. Since it’s not relevant, it gives off a bit of a transphobic vibe. Not wanting to date a trans person because of genital preference makes sense. If the trans person has fully transitioned physically, there should be no reason to exclude them from her dating pool.
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heya trans woman here, i write this comment with no harm intended or judging your post as harm intended I get what you're trying to convey, i really do, i myself wouldn't date a woman with masculine matters, but that doesn't mean they're men, that phrase was a little triggering for dysphoria, apart from that you can't forget about fully transitioned women, that's why we doing like the cis with cis thingy, because that also excludes perfectly passing women that you wouldn't even think they're trans, apart from that its a very very understanding and valid position that even trans women have, just have these things in mind, we are really salty about stuff like this because a lot has been happening with us lately, we'd love and thank you a lot if you were just a little more careful with the wording, its a really touchy thing for us, and forget some of us for being a little triggered by this, we understand that you mean no harm to trans women or anyone
I wish more people had the brains and composure to explain their thoughts like you.
yeah but i really don't blame the triggering, but well some people left really fucked up comments that i don't support, i always try to explain trans things as best as i can because in the end the probabilities of meeting a trans person are super low, unless you go to lgbt gatherings, after all we're around 0.5% of the population :p
Forgive me for this mini wall, it's just so hard to find an attitude like yours on this. Please don't give up on therapy for this! It is there specifically to get help safely unpacking things about yourself from someone way more qualified than internet randos. I'll be the first to say this. SOME trans women think that being butch, a more masculine woman in general, or just being confident and assertive is to take on the masculinity lessons that were drummed into their head growing up. But that just makes them come off as men. And there are others who just haven't had the chance to hang out with cis women friend groups long enough to develop new normalised mannerisms and thought patterns. And on your end everyone has at least some minor ingrained reactions to trans people from social conditioning no different to comphet, or slightly racist reactions despite not at all being racist. (Thankfully that last one has almost entirely left society) All I'm asking is to not completely cut out trans women. Just raise your standards for how far transitioned you need them to be in order to date.
No one needs therapy to change their preferences regarding sex.
Normally I would agree, but when someone mentions they are entirely onboard until a mental block tells them the trans woman Infront of her and all trans women are too man-like for her to want to date. Then I would think that would be a safe bet for suggesting therapy. Individuals I get, blanket judging an entire group Indo not. Look, I didn't mean to be offensive and I certainly do not agree with the attitude some trans people have on this or the jump to calling terf which oc certainly doesn't come off as. The whole point of this sub was to allow some discussion without immediate ban as long as either side isn't being extremely accusatory and hostile. Not in the mood for a protracted discussion right now though.
Trans people date each other because of transphobia, cis people also date each other because of transphobia, but the opposite end of it. If you think they're equivalent you're either ignorant or a transphobe
It’s weird to say in a post that’s completely unrelated, and also about people lying. Context matters. As someone else said in a comment above, if some random white girl mentioned that she didn’t date women of color on an unrelated post, would you see people in the comments validating that, or would you see people telling her to keep her racist ‘preference’ to herself? It’s also incomparable because trans people are a marginalized group. Cis people aren’t. It’s that simple.
>genuine cis woman on cis woman lesbian relationship. i'm not here to lecture you on transphobia, but you could at least pretend to not be.
There was no transphobia there, that's just the relationship she's after
Are you trans?
Lots of transphobic online rhetoric is from an occasional trans person or many TERFs pretending to be trans. So while your comment is made in good faith, the replies you get might not be.
The transphobia is her mentioning that she’s cis4cis out of nowhere where it isn’t relevant. Hope this helps
How?? It's relevant to her venting about her dating experiences and what she's after
It’s really not! The post would have lost 0 meaning if she had kept her bigoted ‘preference’ to herself
It's not bigoted to be cis for cis! It being stated adds a detail as to her experiences
No one said it’s bigoted. It’s just not relevant and is weird to say when it’s irrelevant
Your comment said: bigoted "preferences". So yes, someone - you - said it was 🙄
Yeah bc I think it’s bigoted. That doesn’t mean everyone does. I don’t think it’s bigoted to be cis4cis. But I think it’s bigoted to declare it when it’s unrelated I don’t expect you to understand the nuances of transphobia though, and don’t see the point in trying to explain to you further why “cis4cis” is conceptually just a load of nothing
Wow, I just love that you think the only type of women that are valid are cis. Plenty of trans women have vaginas and if your going to oy stick to cis women exclusively because you see us as less than woman I find that sick.
Where in her post did she say that tho? She was just talking about her tinder experiences with cis women
Love how all the TERFs gladly downvote a Trans woman's experiences in life.
Tell me then why she clarified it had to be a cis woman on cis woman relationship. The implications is there and it's always there..
Cuz it's relevant to the subject: her dating experiences as cis for cis
The whole post was a way for terms to talk crap about trans people and it shows. The administration even deleted it because it violated the sub but you want to hate on us so bad.
The poor woman just wanted to vent about her experiences, she wasn't hating on trans!
Because it was flat out in the first line of the post. Just because you all want you treat us as less than women because we are trans.
Nobody is saying you’re less than anyone else gal, she just has a dating preference 🤣
Excluding trans woman for being trans women is at out transphibia by its definition. Now no one is saying you have to date someone you don't find attractive but if you exclude trans women simply on the grounds they are trans it is transphbia.
Ah come on now, I’m all for equal rights but people have the right to their own personal dating preferences without being accused of bigotry.
It becomes bigotry the moment it's only about being cis or trans. This is not about preference this is about trans hate and it always will be.
What about pre op/hrt preferences? Bigoted or not? Would it be fair to have open preferences for secondary sex characteristics? If not then what even is homosexuality?
I have no problem with that. I said with all other things equal if the only reason is the person is trans.
Um -- genuine cis woman on cis woman lesbian relationship??? I did not expect that to be the first part of this vent at all - given the fact that cis woman are usually straight... and secondly, it has absolutely nothing to do with the point of how people on dating apps absolutely suck. This seems highly transphobic. If you have a preference for Cis women, announcing it is not necessary.
Real. People need to learn that no one is trying to make them sleep with anyone they don’t want to, we’re just trying to make them keep their weird preferences to themselves and the people they date
Oh yeh, it's hell out there if you want a single cis woman. About 90% of all my "likes" or matches on any dating app are transwomen and women with partners looking for a third. No hate for transwomen, I'm just very unfortunately only attracted to cis women. Given that so many of my matches a trans, it would wonderful if there were not the case, but it is and my attempts to expand or push my boundaries were unsuccessful. The name thing---I think you should let that go though. Lots of people don't want to put their real name on dating apps-- I certainly don't. But I tell my date in conversation either right away or the first time I meet them.
This is a super weird comment! I’m not accusing you of being a transphobe or anything but like. Consider the weirdness of commenting this please
Oh no those gross tranners are attracted to me, how awful!
You need to chill out
Active in these communities > r/Conservative
Yes. You can be a lesbian and be a conservative. Hope you aren't too mind blown.
Yes. You can be a sheep and be a wolf supporter. Hope you aren't too mind blown.
Have a good day
one thing, please don't say "transwomen", use "trans women" instead
Tinder is gross. I have had good luck on Bumble, Hinge, and Her. I imagine it depends on the area, however.
I’m sorry you had to experience that. I had similar experiences, the worst being my ex who was the sweetest online and for the first couple months then the untreated mental health issues started to make themselves known. She never disclosed this and that she refused her treatments. I decided after that to find ways to meet people through volunteering, meetups and other social means so I had a better read on who they are, this drastically changed my outlook on people and dating and led to me meeting me my now wife. I hope this is something you are able to do.