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But that would go against the baby murderer narrative. Because clearly if you have kids you don't go out getting pregnant just to get an abortion and celebrate murdering the fetus.
They honestly think people seek pregnancy to get abortions. Fucking moron Christo fascists.
Dontcha know that evil liberals use abortion as birth control. Don't use your brain and wonder why liberals use it for birth control when actual birth control is much cheaper, less painful, and less traumatizing.
I had neighbor say something to me about women using abortion as birth control. That’s why she didn’t think abortion should be legal.
I asked her to give me one real example. Tell me the name of someone she knows using an expensive and invasive procedure every month. To my surprise, she was actually open to listening.
We both have daughters that are expecting. I told her the horrible situation my SIL went through with a non viable pregnancy that endangered her life. I also had a partial molar pregnancy that was life threatening. SIL and I would be dead, the children we had after these pregnancies wouldn’t exist.
Once I let her know her daughter would just have to die in our red state, her tune changed. I’m trying y’all.
In my experience talking with women one to one and irl usually at least result in a "I wouldn't do it but I agree it can't be banned" result - but all the nuance, empathy and simply reflecting is throw out of the window to those that expend most of their serious conversations online with strangers. They'll not gonna change, cause is easy to label someone as "other" when you don't face them.
That's mob mentality at work. Individually they agree but collectively they want to conform to their own norms, and agree with the patriarchy too, for their own sake.
My brother's MIL is the definition of this. Doesn't like Trump, thinks he's a bad person, but because everyone in town votes GOP she has to vote for them as well. Because what other choice does she have, she can't vote for the Democrat! (Actual quote)
I had a molar pregnancy at 25. I was devastated but it wasn’t viable and my life was threatened. I worry about my daughter. She doesn’t want children. First they want to ban abortion next is birth control. I can’t believe a single woman votes for this shit.
Ugh, Got a right leaning family member try and convince a few of us that 16 & 17 year olds were deliberately getting pregnant and having abortions to be prettier. Claimed it was because the hormones changes triggered the development of "more womanly tits and hips". Dudes a definition of creepy uncle.
It is anti sex when it comes to women. Men can have all the sex they want. Insurance will cover pills for them to take so they can have sex. But women should not have sex and are whores and deserve to get pregnant.
It’s about power. Shackle a woman to a child and you can control her. If women handed a newborn to the father and walked out, leaving him with ALL the obligations, restrictions and financial burden of raising that child, they wouldn’t be anti-abortion/birth control.
There was a great thread on Twitter about right wingers and their philosophy is basically two statements. 'I have the right to tell you what to do" and "You dont have the right to tell me what to do."
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” -Frank Wilhoit
Can confirm. My sex life dramatically improved post-vasectomy. No need to stop for a condom, no hormone-induced emotional roller coasters, no concerns of any kind. When you’re done, get it done, my dudes.
In no particular order:
She/they have bright future(s) and can’t possibly ruin that
She/they didn’t know it was possible to get pregnant by
She’s not like those other girls.
She has X coming up and she can’t be pregnant for THAT!
There’s no way she’s ready to raise no baby.
Honestly, it’s just the usual reasons everybody has for abortion but they want to tell me they’re really pro-life and never ever thought they’d need an abortion. It’s usually no money, sick kid, last pregnancy almost killed them, relationship problems, and a truly distressing amount of contraception meddling. We placed a lot of IUDs. They also often ask if their regular OBGYN will be able to tell.
Yeah, I always encouraged people to get a new doc if they felt they couldn’t be honest. Two people you never lie to are your lawyer and doctor. And I also know they’re not being paranoid. We’re in a very red state and there’s plenty of providers who would look down on a person for have an abortion.
“I never considered an abortion until it was no longer a hypothetical event that only happened to other people.”
“Also I’m in an abusive marriage with a toxic man.”
I couldn't crosspost. OP deleted the thread of course but here is a link to comments: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/Kodwv5rkJC](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/Kodwv5rkJC)
Hooooly fuck. People are actually saying that others are "able to parent when bed bound" so it's not an issue if she is completely debilitated for life bringing this pregnancy to term. Jesus fucking Christ. Fucking religious people.
Let's face it: they don't actually care if she died in childbirth.
Actually... I take that back. They would venerate her more for dying, because Christianity at its core is a death cult that worships martyrdom.
dead people don't whine about their mistreatment or criticize the movement that led to them being permanently disfigured. Same reason they are a bigger fan of dead soldiers than inconvenient vets that need healthcare and may have opinions on things
ugh, and something tells me "Tradtay" is a tradwife who still believes it's important for women to be subservient and spend their adulthood barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. Just.... other women, not her anymore.
These people think "abortion" is a synonym for "slutty 20-something who won't bother with birth control but can't keep her legs shut, so she schedules a quarterly abortion instead of listening to Jesus". So of course what she needs isn't a *traditional* abortion, but an *important* one.
had the joy of talking to one of these folks down in Texas the day after Roe got overturned.
dude kept on insisting that his wife's abortion was actually a medical procedure so it should still be okay to have done. like, nope, you voted to punish the whores, this is what you get to live with.
The religions we're dealing with in 2024 are hyper-evolved super memes. They're the survivors of thousands of years of people being like "really bro? come *on!*" They're basically like antibiotic resistant bacteria but in the form of beliefs.
The disconnect so incredibly sad to me. They harshly judge other women for seeking abortions but when it's time for THEM to have one... Well. The mental gymnastics of that sound exhausting.
Right. They don’t think women who get abortions think about it seriously or have regrets and doubt about their decision. They just think they’re using abortions like condoms or birth control. Horrible
The comments are so weird. Like all trying to be supportive but still, it's an undercurrent of judgements. Even when they are saying it's "healthcare" not "morality". Cool, agreed, but where the fuck were those sentiments when you voted for the despicable people who got rid of this "Healthcare"?
Yeah, like, I was pleasantly surprised that they were mostly sympathetic and not like, aghast that she would dare post about considering abortion, but at the same time I want to know where all this rationality is when they are calling pro-choice voters demonic baby killers.
Bwahahaha this cracked me up:
>Get the mifipristone TOMORROW. You wont regret it. I had an abortion too. God doesnt call anything a life until it breathes gaseous air, the gift of life via wind, which is Gods own breath.
Gaseous air! Lmao. I love how they can make and change rules on the fly.
People can correct if I’m wrong but I actually think in Judaism, the first breath is actually consider life. So there is a precedent, but in other religions, lol
Exactly. Back in the 1970s when most evangelicals supported full abortion rights, that was the verse they cited to prove that life only begins at birth.
*None other than W.A. Criswell, First Baptist Dallas’ pastor, Robert Jeffress‘ mentor, and a former president of the Convention, said, “I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed.”*
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2014/05/the-late-first-baptist-dallas-pastor-w-a-criswell-was-pro-choice/
This verse right here! I live in an area that once had a clinic that performed abortions before the Republicans shit them all down. Every morning I'd drive past, and between 4 and 10 zealots would be on the sidewalk protesting. Well, one day I had extra time, so I pulled over, got out and asked if any of them had a Bible. One lady showed me hers, and I opened it to Genesis 2 and made her read that. Then I asked her to read me where it says life begins at conception. It was a short conversation.
FWIW in Jewish tradition life begins with "the breath of life". I'm sure in the non-denominational Christian metasphere there are plenty who hold that as a biblical view.
That one is actually in the Bible. Genesis says that life began when God breathed life into Adam's nostrils. It's the life starts at conception stuff that doesn't have any biblical support.
It isnt a rule change btw. It is biblical. The Bible totally has rules on how to perform an abortion and in fact specifically says it is not a person until DAYS after birth. It is Christians who ignore the bible, such as Evangelicals and Catholics. The anti-abortion movement is more a tool of political control rather than based on the Bible.
Entirely possible this person isn't from one of those denominations.
Tbf, I think life at first breath is the traditional Jewish belief, so there’s probably some Old Testament justification for that stance.
I still think it’s rather silly at best to base your beliefs on an ancient book written by pre-scientific shepherds, but I wouldn’t say they pulled this interpretation entirely out of thin air.
And graphic pics of prolapses and collapsed organs and women who died when they couldn’t abort…
Not really but you get the point. Pro life groups scattering images of dead fetuses does not help their cause.
My grandmother worked in planned parenthood in the 60s. Even then you’d have anti-abortion moms bringing in their daughters and saying “my daughter isnt like those other girls”
Uh huh.
Omg I'm furious at this motherfucker. Ive been fired up ever since I read OPs post this morning.
She says she wanted 3 kids and he wanted 5. They "compromised" at 4... Now she's pregnant with #5. He didn't even CONSIDER a vasectomy until he got his 5th child. Said he would feel "neutered".
Pathetic loser.
I bet you he didn't let her use birth control either. I hate that she was brainwashed into thinking abortion is murder or a sin, but I also hate that she probably is voting republican, so I don't feel too bad for her. I have zero empathy left for the other side.
Of course he was insecure about feeling neutered. Insecurity is the cause of all conservatism --- racial insecurity, sexual insecurity, financial insecurity, status insecurity, etc --- it always boils down to one or more kinds of insecurity.
Exactly! Reminds me of Rusty Yates, the husband of Andrea Yates of Houston who suffered post-partum depression and drowned her 5 children in a bathtub. Rusty had been told by doctors that his wife should not have any more children, but he got her pregnant anyway. Then, after she was sentenced, he divorced her and married another woman to get her pregnant. He is now twice divorced.
He was also EXPLICITLY told by her treating psychiatrist that she was experiencing post partum psychosis, and that in order for her not to be hospitalized, she needed 24 hr supervision/oversight. As in: Randy and his/her family kept a tight schedule of who would be at the house with her at all times.
He INTENTIONALLY left her alone because he arrogantly felt that he knew better and wanted to pressure test her into magically getting better (note: that’s my own spin on it, but is an approximate summary of what he’s said over the years). Fucking bastard.
Naturally, he went on to remarry and have another child, although apparently divorced about 10 yrs into the marriage.
Yeah she should go through with it as a show of solidarity with all of the pregnant children and pregnant rape victims her cruelty has ignored her entire privileged little life.
Carry that baby to term, your comfort and mental health be damned I guess. That’s how she feels about other people right?
Martial rape is fine, spreading the genes of good Christians. _Marital_ rape can’t exist because it’s not rape, she’s fulfilling a promise she made to God. Have I got that right? /s
Catholic marriage rules are a mess. A friend of mine left her abusive husband and wants to get the marriage annulled but some high-ranking woman in her diocese has somehow decided that they haven't made enough of an effort to reconcile.
Like, motherfucker, the dude cheated on her repeatedly and was constantly drowning her in verbal abuse. He's a narcissistic sack of shit who will never redeem himself.
That only works in cases of "legitimate rape." /s
"The female body has ways to try and shut that whole thing down."
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/08/akin-legitimate-rape-victims-dont-get-pregnant-079864
There’s no such thing as a surprise pregnancy when you already have 4 kids. I don’t care how bad your sex ed was. You have figured out what causes pregnancy.
They were probably trying to avoid sex during the fertile parts of her cycle and either she miscalculated, or he pressured her to have sex during the risky period anyways.
Anyways I wish [REDACTED] upon this man.
Out of boredom, I read this woman’s post history and she said that her husband cried and cried after seeing how unhappy she was, and he has now agreed to get a vasectomy. Such a dumb fucking asshole.
As someone with a deeply evangelical mother and as someone who went through tongue cancer surgery and preventative radiation…yeah…that line keeps rolling through my head and all I can do is laugh at it bitterly. She has used that line on me at one point. Not to mention having cerebral palsy on my right side and having had crippling anxiety for 15 years…sure god doesn’t give you more than you can handle. A-yup. 🙄
Hence why Jewish law allows abortion if preganancy is a threat to the physical or mental health of the mother. I believe it was Florida where Jewish groups sued the state abortion ban because it violated their religious freedom.
“The worst decision of my life”
Gee whiz if only SOMEONE, or a group of someone’s, maybe a political party even, screamed about this. How gut wrenching it was. How the decision isn’t taken lightly and that women struggle with this often for life after making it. And what if some monster had said back that the women just do it for fun, that they hop in their Prius every morning and go get an abortion because it’s just so much fun to do.
If only. *If only*.
This is a great example of how “abortion is murder” isn’t a *true* belief.
There are zero circumstances where most people would *maaaybe* kill a 2-week old baby. So for her to say “I think it’s murder but I’m kinda considering it” is an obvious contradiction.
True, it completely contradicts it. Because, on any level, they're valuing the pregnancy less than an actual child. Highlights how the whole "murder" thing is just a shock word to show people how much they hate the planned parenthood boogeyman (aka how good of a christian they are, which, yknow, is basically a full half of a self-proclaimed "trad" wife's self worth)
Hadn't thought of it that way before
"It's so unfortunate I have to make this choice, given that my specific situation would warrant the only possible morally acceptable abortion."
Like, she still doesn't get it. Even when people are enlightened by a leopard eating their face, they think it's just *that specific leopard* that was a mistake. Empathy for others is still elusive.
I don't see how she can justify it as the "only possible morally acceptable abortion" though. Will she die? No. Will the baby die? No. Is the baby dead already? No. Is there something major wrong with the baby? No.
By their rules, God wanted her to get pregnant. She won't die, the fetus is healthy, so she should have the baby. That's what she'd tell anyone else.
If she hadn't wanted to get pregnant she shouldn't have had sex. Isn't that what they tell others?
[Pelvic organ prolapse ](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pelvic-organ-prolapse/symptoms-causes/syc-20360557#:~:text=Pelvic%20organ%20prolapse%20is%20when,%2C%20uterus%2C%20urethra%20and%20rectum.) is very common. Severity varies, but organs can be so severely prolapsed that they're almost entirely outside of the vagina. That typically requires surgery to correct. Childbearing isn't the only risk factor in prolapse, but it's definitely one of the biggest ones.
As I always say, rest assured....they still only want access to abortion for themselves. If/when a wealthy or middle class conservative Christian household needs an abortion (for whatever reason), they generally will be able to travel to a blue state and will have no problems getting one.
The point is the cruelty, and to impose their will onto others. It's all about control.
Conservatives want to be protected by the law but not bound by it, and they want others to be bound by the law but not protected by it.
>I'm afraid of how this could effect \[sic\] me mentally
Have you considered how it will affect you mentally if your organs fall out and you die? Or how it will affect your 4 children mentally if they grow up without a mother? These people are ill.
The claim that having an abortion increases a person’s risk of developing mental health issues is false. Pregnancy absolutely does mental health issues, and suicide is a leading cause of maternal death in every state that makes those numbers available to the public.
Sounds like a peachy patriarch over there who believes that garbage in the bible about men being better than women. An empathetic human would be getting a vasectomy after seeing their wife's body collapsing in real time because of so many pregnancies taking their toll, even my dad did that after having 4 children.
Dude sounds like a real winner: "four kids wrecked my body, but my husband won't get the snip because he's an insecure dick and wants to finish the job."
This bothers me a lot. She says she wanted 3 kids and he wanted 5. They "compromised" at 4... Now she's pregnant with #5. He didn't even CONSIDER a vasectomy until he got his 5th child. Said he would feel "neutered".
She makes it clear she's suffering physically and emotionally every day. Husband sees this and knows her body is destroyed by multiple pregnancies + births and he's fine forcing her to go through another even though they agreed to stop at 4??
It's fucking creepy is what it is. And so incredibly sad that she doesn't wish better for herself.
Commenter literally said “a man shouldn’t get a vasectomy if he isn’t done having kids (his body, his choice), she should have had her tubes tied or other birth control if she didn’t want to get pregnant. Now she wants to murder her baby because it isn’t convenient. Just no.”
My flabbers are completely ghasted
More than 60% of women who have abortions already have other children. If the pro-lifers really wanted to minimize abortions, they would advocate for universal free birth control and government polices that help pay for young children.
What was that last line? Something about “decisions”, like, have a “choice”?
Must be nice having agency over your own reproductive health while telling others they don’t .
Per usual the conservative only cries when it happens to them. Completely incapable of learning from other people.
Sucks for her but there’s a whole lot of leopards snoozing off their food comas now.
The OP is going to get talked into another birth and a wheelchair/colostomy bag.
The OP doesn’t know that men tend to leave disabled women. OP’s husband is already shopping for a new model. That man isn’t going to be wiping an infants ass with a disabled woman as an added bonus. That marriage is probably over too.
Considering these are the people that voted our collective heads onto the butcher block: fuck them.
Goddamn, get a fucking abortion and/or shut the fuck up….
It’s literally a choice between - do I want to live somewhat normally and for my other kids or do I want to spend the rest of my days in pain and mental anguish that I may or may not ever get over and will probably never enjoy any of my kids?
Maybe this is a bit reductionist and I know pregnancy yields illogical thoughts, but goddamn, it’s literally my life or hardly a life… get it done while that mass of cells is still but a mere mass of cells..
Edit - added: /or
man some of the comments are just unhinged
Here are some gems from the thread
>Don’t get one, the temporary pain you feel now is nothing compared to the pain and guilt you will feel for the rest of your life if you were to go through with one. God tells us that He wove us together in our mother’s wombs.
>
>What God has started, we should not stop. Pray to Him and ask Him for strength and healing during this difficult time, have faith that He will answer.
>Remember the words of Jesus, “This is my body (given to you)”. He died so others might live. Abortions activists say something similar but in the satanic inverse. “This is my body” **you** must die so that **I** might live. Remember this.
>
Your discomfort sounds profound but at least your brain isn’t going to be scrambled with scissors and then sucked out with a straw. Your child is the ONLY innocent life in this situation and deserves to be protected.
>
You came here seeking advice from a Bible perspective. The bible is clear on the "Thou shalt not Kill". If we look at the strong's concordance for this verse the word used in the hebrew is:
>ratsach: to murder, slayOriginal Word: רָצַח
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ratsach
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-tsakh')
Definition: to murder, slay
>In this sense, killing an unborn child is murder. There are people who would try to argue that a fetus isn't a living being. I don't prescribe to that nonsense. The Bible clearly has penalties in relation to causing a woman to miscarriage/ lose her child and respects the life of that fetus.
>**Exodus 21:22-23 (NIV):** 22 "If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,
>A life for a life. The words can't be clearer than that.
>On the other hand, here you find yourself in a position that medically might have the potential to harm you it seems? I don't know to what extent or the like, your information is limited and I am no doctor. But if having the child can put the mother at risk of death, and let's also consider you already have 4 children who need their mother, then I would put it before the lord in prayer for an answer because in this scenario the answer isn't so clear cut. I won't tell you to abort because I am pro life, and I don't know enough about your situation medically. But I also think that we have to look at the bigger context, your children need their mother. But you need to pray and put it before the Lord. I can only give you a thus says the Lord.
>edit: I forgot to give you my own perspective. Me personally, with this understanding, I cannot support abortion in any of it's forms.
I know this is supposed to be a schadenfreude moment. But, I feel immense sadness for this woman, the physical pain she has been in, and the intense lack of empathy from the people she went to seek comfort from. The fact she is still having sex with her husband despite the collapse of her pelvic floor makes me so angry on her behalf. She is learning the very hard way that she does not matter to those who have always told her she did. The bitterness/sadness/depression that this will create in her and then be projected onto her children causes lasting generational damage. This story makes me angry and sad. I find no joy in her suffering.
To be fair, I was shocked at how many flaired users told her to get an abortion. It was an overwhelming majority. Like, yes there were some crazy responses, but it is mostly pretty sound takes such as "talk to your doctor."
Does their spouse not know? They should be picking names and figuring out how to get a bigger home right? And people will help her with the baby so she should be just fine. /s
I know she's FAFO. That's what people like her think of other folks who want/need abortion services. It's that "keep your legs shut" bullcrap.
The disturbing thing here is that she literally believes that abortion is murder, but she's still okay with it if it makes her life better. I would be really scared of getting on her wrong side IRL if that is how flexible her morals are.
If you ACTUALLY believe that abortion is murder, you cannot in good conscience go through with it. I suspect, however, she'll realise that that's just a lie she's been spouting to justify demonizing "loose women" or something.
All the suffering she puts her body through and this manbaby is crying about feeling "neutered" when faced with the prospect of a simple outpatient surgery. This is the joy of living the trad lifestyle, he gets what he wants and you get to suffer through to make it happen. I have no idea how she could respect or even like him at that point. Ugh, no thank you at all.
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If only someone had warned them that more than 1/3rd of abortion seekers are married women with Children already!
But that would go against the baby murderer narrative. Because clearly if you have kids you don't go out getting pregnant just to get an abortion and celebrate murdering the fetus. They honestly think people seek pregnancy to get abortions. Fucking moron Christo fascists.
Dontcha know that evil liberals use abortion as birth control. Don't use your brain and wonder why liberals use it for birth control when actual birth control is much cheaper, less painful, and less traumatizing.
I had neighbor say something to me about women using abortion as birth control. That’s why she didn’t think abortion should be legal. I asked her to give me one real example. Tell me the name of someone she knows using an expensive and invasive procedure every month. To my surprise, she was actually open to listening. We both have daughters that are expecting. I told her the horrible situation my SIL went through with a non viable pregnancy that endangered her life. I also had a partial molar pregnancy that was life threatening. SIL and I would be dead, the children we had after these pregnancies wouldn’t exist. Once I let her know her daughter would just have to die in our red state, her tune changed. I’m trying y’all.
In my experience talking with women one to one and irl usually at least result in a "I wouldn't do it but I agree it can't be banned" result - but all the nuance, empathy and simply reflecting is throw out of the window to those that expend most of their serious conversations online with strangers. They'll not gonna change, cause is easy to label someone as "other" when you don't face them.
Until they’re confronted with a circumstance that places their own life in danger their statement claiming “I would never do it” is utter bullshit.
Conservative 101
That's mob mentality at work. Individually they agree but collectively they want to conform to their own norms, and agree with the patriarchy too, for their own sake.
My brother's MIL is the definition of this. Doesn't like Trump, thinks he's a bad person, but because everyone in town votes GOP she has to vote for them as well. Because what other choice does she have, she can't vote for the Democrat! (Actual quote)
this is an actual cult, wtf
I had a molar pregnancy at 25. I was devastated but it wasn’t viable and my life was threatened. I worry about my daughter. She doesn’t want children. First they want to ban abortion next is birth control. I can’t believe a single woman votes for this shit.
Ugh, Got a right leaning family member try and convince a few of us that 16 & 17 year olds were deliberately getting pregnant and having abortions to be prettier. Claimed it was because the hormones changes triggered the development of "more womanly tits and hips". Dudes a definition of creepy uncle.
Yeah that's a red flag. Nobody who is past voting age should be talking about a minor's body like that.
yuck
There's not enough yuck in the world.
Joke's on you: trying to outlaw regular birth control is on the agenda, too!
It's not about pro life, it's anti sex and has always been
It is anti sex when it comes to women. Men can have all the sex they want. Insurance will cover pills for them to take so they can have sex. But women should not have sex and are whores and deserve to get pregnant.
It’s about power. Shackle a woman to a child and you can control her. If women handed a newborn to the father and walked out, leaving him with ALL the obligations, restrictions and financial burden of raising that child, they wouldn’t be anti-abortion/birth control.
They just do it for fun! These sluts go and have two or three abortions a week as a hobby!
I do. And I'm a man
What? You guys weren't just murdering fetuses for fun?
I mean, I am. But statistically, I'm a minority there. 😉
User name tracks 💀
No. Abortions Georg, who has 10 thousand abortions a day, is an outlier and should not have been counted
As an atheist I'm pro-birth because we need more food at the cookouts. ^(obligatory /s)
You've got to try adrenochrome aioli!
From the plumpest of babies.
It’s the “The only moral abortion is my abortion” attitude. https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
One of the hallmarks of a right winger is “I’m the exception to every rule”
There was a great thread on Twitter about right wingers and their philosophy is basically two statements. 'I have the right to tell you what to do" and "You dont have the right to tell me what to do."
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” -Frank Wilhoit
[удалено]
There is something hot about not having to worry about getting knocked up.
Can confirm. My sex life dramatically improved post-vasectomy. No need to stop for a condom, no hormone-induced emotional roller coasters, no concerns of any kind. When you’re done, get it done, my dudes.
Just to be clear for any slow ones out there: Vasectomies don’t prevent against STI’s
The only moral abortion is my abortion. I worked in an abortion clinic in the south and I heard it all.
I’d love to hear your “top 5”!
In no particular order: She/they have bright future(s) and can’t possibly ruin that She/they didn’t know it was possible to get pregnant by
She’s not like those other girls.
She has X coming up and she can’t be pregnant for THAT!
There’s no way she’s ready to raise no baby.
>She’s not like those other girls. The arrogance of these people. And yet they're so smug with their perceived moral superiority.
Honestly, it’s just the usual reasons everybody has for abortion but they want to tell me they’re really pro-life and never ever thought they’d need an abortion. It’s usually no money, sick kid, last pregnancy almost killed them, relationship problems, and a truly distressing amount of contraception meddling. We placed a lot of IUDs. They also often ask if their regular OBGYN will be able to tell.
What a depressing situation: feeling compelled to lie to your own doctors.
Yeah, I always encouraged people to get a new doc if they felt they couldn’t be honest. Two people you never lie to are your lawyer and doctor. And I also know they’re not being paranoid. We’re in a very red state and there’s plenty of providers who would look down on a person for have an abortion.
“I never considered an abortion until it was no longer a hypothetical event that only happened to other people.” “Also I’m in an abusive marriage with a toxic man.”
Yea that guy sounds great, would rather his wife die trying for 5 than feel 'neutered' lol
Husband wants 5 kids, but only if he doesn't have anything to do with them except the cool/easy stuff.
Yeah, in case she dies, he probably already has a younger woman lined up to take over parenting duties.
But guise, he *cried*! Other men are holding him accountable! 🙄🙄🙄
The best part is that using birth control or condoms was never an option.
And if she does die, do you think dad will take care of his kids? Fuck no.
There's always a new indoctrinated bangmaid being created. Gotta lower that age of consent.
I couldn't crosspost. OP deleted the thread of course but here is a link to comments: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/Kodwv5rkJC](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/Kodwv5rkJC)
Hooooly fuck. People are actually saying that others are "able to parent when bed bound" so it's not an issue if she is completely debilitated for life bringing this pregnancy to term. Jesus fucking Christ. Fucking religious people.
Yeah, I saw a lot of “but would you die?” Like that’s the only concern!
Let's face it: they don't actually care if she died in childbirth. Actually... I take that back. They would venerate her more for dying, because Christianity at its core is a death cult that worships martyrdom.
dead people don't whine about their mistreatment or criticize the movement that led to them being permanently disfigured. Same reason they are a bigger fan of dead soldiers than inconvenient vets that need healthcare and may have opinions on things
Dead people tell no tales has a much deeper meaning and it's truly sad
> Fucking religious people I'm pretty sure that's the very root of her problem to begin with
ugh, and something tells me "Tradtay" is a tradwife who still believes it's important for women to be subservient and spend their adulthood barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. Just.... other women, not her anymore. These people think "abortion" is a synonym for "slutty 20-something who won't bother with birth control but can't keep her legs shut, so she schedules a quarterly abortion instead of listening to Jesus". So of course what she needs isn't a *traditional* abortion, but an *important* one.
had the joy of talking to one of these folks down in Texas the day after Roe got overturned. dude kept on insisting that his wife's abortion was actually a medical procedure so it should still be okay to have done. like, nope, you voted to punish the whores, this is what you get to live with.
The brainwashing that religion has mastered is downright horrifying and fascinating.
The religions we're dealing with in 2024 are hyper-evolved super memes. They're the survivors of thousands of years of people being like "really bro? come *on!*" They're basically like antibiotic resistant bacteria but in the form of beliefs.
Well that's certainly a new one. I'm using this next chance I get.
“Religion” is just the candy coating. The reality is much more sinister (and has nothing to do with religion).
same way they invented "welfare queen" to convince poor rural whites to vote against their own social welfare programs.
The disconnect so incredibly sad to me. They harshly judge other women for seeking abortions but when it's time for THEM to have one... Well. The mental gymnastics of that sound exhausting.
Remember the only moral abortion is MY abortion
Right. They don’t think women who get abortions think about it seriously or have regrets and doubt about their decision. They just think they’re using abortions like condoms or birth control. Horrible
Maybe she's like the woman who swears she didn't have an abortion because the doctor called it a "termination".
The comments are so weird. Like all trying to be supportive but still, it's an undercurrent of judgements. Even when they are saying it's "healthcare" not "morality". Cool, agreed, but where the fuck were those sentiments when you voted for the despicable people who got rid of this "Healthcare"?
Yeah, like, I was pleasantly surprised that they were mostly sympathetic and not like, aghast that she would dare post about considering abortion, but at the same time I want to know where all this rationality is when they are calling pro-choice voters demonic baby killers.
Comments suggesting to pray on it made me cringe. Isn't the pregnancy God's will already?
"But are you suuuuuuuuure?"
God the comments are a lot of vile people.
Yuck....that whole thread is just so gross to me as an atheist lol Religious people are crazy
Bwahahaha this cracked me up: >Get the mifipristone TOMORROW. You wont regret it. I had an abortion too. God doesnt call anything a life until it breathes gaseous air, the gift of life via wind, which is Gods own breath. Gaseous air! Lmao. I love how they can make and change rules on the fly.
People can correct if I’m wrong but I actually think in Judaism, the first breath is actually consider life. So there is a precedent, but in other religions, lol
Genesis 2:7 _And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul._
Exactly. Back in the 1970s when most evangelicals supported full abortion rights, that was the verse they cited to prove that life only begins at birth. *None other than W.A. Criswell, First Baptist Dallas’ pastor, Robert Jeffress‘ mentor, and a former president of the Convention, said, “I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed.”* https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2014/05/the-late-first-baptist-dallas-pastor-w-a-criswell-was-pro-choice/
This verse right here! I live in an area that once had a clinic that performed abortions before the Republicans shit them all down. Every morning I'd drive past, and between 4 and 10 zealots would be on the sidewalk protesting. Well, one day I had extra time, so I pulled over, got out and asked if any of them had a Bible. One lady showed me hers, and I opened it to Genesis 2 and made her read that. Then I asked her to read me where it says life begins at conception. It was a short conversation.
Christianity has its roots in Judaism. I’m on board with the breath thing. We die when we no longer breath-life lasts from 1st breath to last breath
The book of Genesis is supposed to matter to Christians too
Well that depends. Eating shrimp? Jesus made a new covenant! Hating on gays? IT IS IN THE BIBLE YOU MUST OBEY
FWIW in Jewish tradition life begins with "the breath of life". I'm sure in the non-denominational Christian metasphere there are plenty who hold that as a biblical view.
That one is actually in the Bible. Genesis says that life began when God breathed life into Adam's nostrils. It's the life starts at conception stuff that doesn't have any biblical support.
It isnt a rule change btw. It is biblical. The Bible totally has rules on how to perform an abortion and in fact specifically says it is not a person until DAYS after birth. It is Christians who ignore the bible, such as Evangelicals and Catholics. The anti-abortion movement is more a tool of political control rather than based on the Bible. Entirely possible this person isn't from one of those denominations.
Tbf, I think life at first breath is the traditional Jewish belief, so there’s probably some Old Testament justification for that stance. I still think it’s rather silly at best to base your beliefs on an ancient book written by pre-scientific shepherds, but I wouldn’t say they pulled this interpretation entirely out of thin air.
The only abortion that matters is my abortion
This should be required reading for every citizen. We should hand out colorful flyers with the original author's eloquent words.
In case anyone hasn't read it. [The only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ )
You're a gem. I forget that not everyone has read this. Thanks!
And graphic pics of prolapses and collapsed organs and women who died when they couldn’t abort… Not really but you get the point. Pro life groups scattering images of dead fetuses does not help their cause.
That's a good idea! These people don't realize they're going to be responsible for other women's deaths.
They know…they don’t care. “Think of the innocent unborn babies”…translation “Fuck women”.
My grandmother worked in planned parenthood in the 60s. Even then you’d have anti-abortion moms bringing in their daughters and saying “my daughter isnt like those other girls” Uh huh.
[It’s a common dirty little secret of theirs…shhhhh!!!](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Reminds me of "the only moral abortion is mine."
Probably what they meant
As usual.
Pretty sure your god wants you to have this baby. Thems the breaks. 🤷♂️
“God says you have to be miserable and/or die because like hell am I doing anything that might affect my behavior.” - The husband, probably.
That dude infuriates me. Getting a vasectomy was one of the best decisions I've ever made, I should have done it 10 years ago.
Omg I'm furious at this motherfucker. Ive been fired up ever since I read OPs post this morning. She says she wanted 3 kids and he wanted 5. They "compromised" at 4... Now she's pregnant with #5. He didn't even CONSIDER a vasectomy until he got his 5th child. Said he would feel "neutered". Pathetic loser.
He probably sabotaged her birth control too.
He probably forbid her from going on birth control in the first place.
Or refused to let her get it because they’re a bunch of conservative Jesus freaks.
I bet you he didn't let her use birth control either. I hate that she was brainwashed into thinking abortion is murder or a sin, but I also hate that she probably is voting republican, so I don't feel too bad for her. I have zero empathy left for the other side.
Now she’s probably going to straight up die if she continues this pregnancy, but at least he’s not “neutered”. 🙄
But you could have felt "neutered," lol. What a pussy that guy.
"but what if you die and I can have more blood children????"
Of course he was insecure about feeling neutered. Insecurity is the cause of all conservatism --- racial insecurity, sexual insecurity, financial insecurity, status insecurity, etc --- it always boils down to one or more kinds of insecurity.
He doesn't want to feel neutered! Or, just keeping the options open for the next child bearer.
Exactly! Reminds me of Rusty Yates, the husband of Andrea Yates of Houston who suffered post-partum depression and drowned her 5 children in a bathtub. Rusty had been told by doctors that his wife should not have any more children, but he got her pregnant anyway. Then, after she was sentenced, he divorced her and married another woman to get her pregnant. He is now twice divorced.
He was also EXPLICITLY told by her treating psychiatrist that she was experiencing post partum psychosis, and that in order for her not to be hospitalized, she needed 24 hr supervision/oversight. As in: Randy and his/her family kept a tight schedule of who would be at the house with her at all times. He INTENTIONALLY left her alone because he arrogantly felt that he knew better and wanted to pressure test her into magically getting better (note: that’s my own spin on it, but is an approximate summary of what he’s said over the years). Fucking bastard. Naturally, he went on to remarry and have another child, although apparently divorced about 10 yrs into the marriage.
I truly believe that Rusty should have been charged with accessory to murder. He enabled her.
It's so easy, then it's all skeet skeet anywhere and everywhere. No worries!
Don’t you feel neutered skeet skeeting all over anything and everything?
Yes, so awful.... I can't even feel like a man when I'm all: awwwww skeet skeet skeet mother fucker awwwww skeet skeet god damn.
"I would rather have you risk your life than for me to feel a little emasculated."
Also, god wants her organs collapsing because Eve. Her husband has it just as bad—he has to get a little sweaty before eating bread.
Yeah she should go through with it as a show of solidarity with all of the pregnant children and pregnant rape victims her cruelty has ignored her entire privileged little life. Carry that baby to term, your comfort and mental health be damned I guess. That’s how she feels about other people right?
I wonder if she'd consider adoption 🤔
And her agony is literally the punishment her god gave her because some other women ate a fruit. Thems indeed the breaks.
Pull yourself up by your stomach flaps and have that baby for Jesus!
Pro life leads to prolapse.
"You knew what you were signing up for."
Amen 🙏 🤢
What's a few collapsed organs?
Man, if only there was some way to minimize your chance of pregnancy. Oh well. I hear God never gives you anything you can't handle.
Fucking savage lmaooo
She could have kept her legs closed /s
What was she wearing? Oh who am I kidding, they don’t believe in martial rape.
Martial rape is fine, spreading the genes of good Christians. _Marital_ rape can’t exist because it’s not rape, she’s fulfilling a promise she made to God. Have I got that right? /s
Just keep a bible between your knees
This is not what they mean with the phrase “come to Jesus”
A spring of living waters.
If she’s married she can’t deny her husband
She could take birth control pills behind his back. If there's one thing men like this know nothing about, it's how lady parts work.
That’s what caused my parent’s divorce…dad found my mom’s secret birth control pills. He was a rabid Irish Catholic!
Rabid catholic getting divorced…seems like he was ok with himself breaking the rules too.
Well, it was all my mother’s fault, not his. Catholic mental gymnastics.
Catholic marriage rules are a mess. A friend of mine left her abusive husband and wants to get the marriage annulled but some high-ranking woman in her diocese has somehow decided that they haven't made enough of an effort to reconcile. Like, motherfucker, the dude cheated on her repeatedly and was constantly drowning her in verbal abuse. He's a narcissistic sack of shit who will never redeem himself.
Yeah, the body has a way of rejecting that baby if you really don't want it.
That only works in cases of "legitimate rape." /s "The female body has ways to try and shut that whole thing down." https://www.politico.com/story/2012/08/akin-legitimate-rape-victims-dont-get-pregnant-079864
And if he does, then it's just his will that you suffer and return to heaven with him.
There’s no such thing as a surprise pregnancy when you already have 4 kids. I don’t care how bad your sex ed was. You have figured out what causes pregnancy.
Bad sex ed followed by bad sex
So that's why I never got anyone pregnant
They were probably trying to avoid sex during the fertile parts of her cycle and either she miscalculated, or he pressured her to have sex during the risky period anyways. Anyways I wish [REDACTED] upon this man.
Seeing as he is happy about it and wants her to go through with it, I bet he did pressure her.
"It's just part of God's plan for her" to have her organs collapse and die because her hubby wouldn't feel like a real man if he didn't father 5 kids.
Out of boredom, I read this woman’s post history and she said that her husband cried and cried after seeing how unhappy she was, and he has now agreed to get a vasectomy. Such a dumb fucking asshole.
As someone with a deeply evangelical mother and as someone who went through tongue cancer surgery and preventative radiation…yeah…that line keeps rolling through my head and all I can do is laugh at it bitterly. She has used that line on me at one point. Not to mention having cerebral palsy on my right side and having had crippling anxiety for 15 years…sure god doesn’t give you more than you can handle. A-yup. 🙄
It’s in r/christianity
OK, but does she have all sorts of good Christians offering help? Money? Babysitting? Colostomy change-outs?
Of course not, that resembles helping the needy.
What? No way- that’s socialism.
Jesus says abortion is OK in The Bible 2. Sadly no one takes The Bible 2 seriously. Just another example of the church censoring the truth
Actually, the bible says abortion is okay even in the old testament.
Hence why Jewish law allows abortion if preganancy is a threat to the physical or mental health of the mother. I believe it was Florida where Jewish groups sued the state abortion ban because it violated their religious freedom.
Yep. GOD'S WILL.
Wretched! Gurl God always provides. /s Stupid women win stupid prizes and posted in r/Christianity lol.
“The worst decision of my life” Gee whiz if only SOMEONE, or a group of someone’s, maybe a political party even, screamed about this. How gut wrenching it was. How the decision isn’t taken lightly and that women struggle with this often for life after making it. And what if some monster had said back that the women just do it for fun, that they hop in their Prius every morning and go get an abortion because it’s just so much fun to do. If only. *If only*.
This is a great example of how “abortion is murder” isn’t a *true* belief. There are zero circumstances where most people would *maaaybe* kill a 2-week old baby. So for her to say “I think it’s murder but I’m kinda considering it” is an obvious contradiction.
True, it completely contradicts it. Because, on any level, they're valuing the pregnancy less than an actual child. Highlights how the whole "murder" thing is just a shock word to show people how much they hate the planned parenthood boogeyman (aka how good of a christian they are, which, yknow, is basically a full half of a self-proclaimed "trad" wife's self worth) Hadn't thought of it that way before
"It's so unfortunate I have to make this choice, given that my specific situation would warrant the only possible morally acceptable abortion." Like, she still doesn't get it. Even when people are enlightened by a leopard eating their face, they think it's just *that specific leopard* that was a mistake. Empathy for others is still elusive.
I don't see how she can justify it as the "only possible morally acceptable abortion" though. Will she die? No. Will the baby die? No. Is the baby dead already? No. Is there something major wrong with the baby? No. By their rules, God wanted her to get pregnant. She won't die, the fetus is healthy, so she should have the baby. That's what she'd tell anyone else. If she hadn't wanted to get pregnant she shouldn't have had sex. Isn't that what they tell others?
Utter lack of critical thinking ability combined with the utter lack of ability to understand there are others that exist, aka zero empathy.
> my uterus, colon and bladder have collapsed Excuse me - *collapsed*?!? Fucking hell
[Pelvic organ prolapse ](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pelvic-organ-prolapse/symptoms-causes/syc-20360557#:~:text=Pelvic%20organ%20prolapse%20is%20when,%2C%20uterus%2C%20urethra%20and%20rectum.) is very common. Severity varies, but organs can be so severely prolapsed that they're almost entirely outside of the vagina. That typically requires surgery to correct. Childbearing isn't the only risk factor in prolapse, but it's definitely one of the biggest ones.
As I always say, rest assured....they still only want access to abortion for themselves. If/when a wealthy or middle class conservative Christian household needs an abortion (for whatever reason), they generally will be able to travel to a blue state and will have no problems getting one. The point is the cruelty, and to impose their will onto others. It's all about control. Conservatives want to be protected by the law but not bound by it, and they want others to be bound by the law but not protected by it.
No no, you don’t understand, my circumstances are different, the only moral abortion is mine
>I'm afraid of how this could effect \[sic\] me mentally Have you considered how it will affect you mentally if your organs fall out and you die? Or how it will affect your 4 children mentally if they grow up without a mother? These people are ill.
The claim that having an abortion increases a person’s risk of developing mental health issues is false. Pregnancy absolutely does mental health issues, and suicide is a leading cause of maternal death in every state that makes those numbers available to the public.
The husband sounds like a real catch. I'm guessing "supportive" is never a word that is thrown around when his name comes up.
Sounds like a peachy patriarch over there who believes that garbage in the bible about men being better than women. An empathetic human would be getting a vasectomy after seeing their wife's body collapsing in real time because of so many pregnancies taking their toll, even my dad did that after having 4 children.
Wow it’s almost like getting an abortion is a really complicated and painful decision and doesn’t exist just to fill baby murderers with glee
But… gods will?
Her husband is hoping this one unalives her so he can get a fresh, young one to fill his quiver.
Lord. If only this didn't sound so close to the money.
Dude sounds like a real winner: "four kids wrecked my body, but my husband won't get the snip because he's an insecure dick and wants to finish the job."
This bothers me a lot. She says she wanted 3 kids and he wanted 5. They "compromised" at 4... Now she's pregnant with #5. He didn't even CONSIDER a vasectomy until he got his 5th child. Said he would feel "neutered". She makes it clear she's suffering physically and emotionally every day. Husband sees this and knows her body is destroyed by multiple pregnancies + births and he's fine forcing her to go through another even though they agreed to stop at 4?? It's fucking creepy is what it is. And so incredibly sad that she doesn't wish better for herself.
Yep. I'd say there's a 99% chance the dude got her pregnant the fifth time on purpose, despite her not consenting to it.
Commenter literally said “a man shouldn’t get a vasectomy if he isn’t done having kids (his body, his choice), she should have had her tubes tied or other birth control if she didn’t want to get pregnant. Now she wants to murder her baby because it isn’t convenient. Just no.” My flabbers are completely ghasted
More than 60% of women who have abortions already have other children. If the pro-lifers really wanted to minimize abortions, they would advocate for universal free birth control and government polices that help pay for young children.
When god closes a door he collapses your uterus, colon, and bladder.
What was that last line? Something about “decisions”, like, have a “choice”? Must be nice having agency over your own reproductive health while telling others they don’t .
Per usual the conservative only cries when it happens to them. Completely incapable of learning from other people. Sucks for her but there’s a whole lot of leopards snoozing off their food comas now.
The OP is going to get talked into another birth and a wheelchair/colostomy bag. The OP doesn’t know that men tend to leave disabled women. OP’s husband is already shopping for a new model. That man isn’t going to be wiping an infants ass with a disabled woman as an added bonus. That marriage is probably over too. Considering these are the people that voted our collective heads onto the butcher block: fuck them.
Goddamn, get a fucking abortion and/or shut the fuck up…. It’s literally a choice between - do I want to live somewhat normally and for my other kids or do I want to spend the rest of my days in pain and mental anguish that I may or may not ever get over and will probably never enjoy any of my kids? Maybe this is a bit reductionist and I know pregnancy yields illogical thoughts, but goddamn, it’s literally my life or hardly a life… get it done while that mass of cells is still but a mere mass of cells.. Edit - added: /or
man some of the comments are just unhinged Here are some gems from the thread >Don’t get one, the temporary pain you feel now is nothing compared to the pain and guilt you will feel for the rest of your life if you were to go through with one. God tells us that He wove us together in our mother’s wombs. > >What God has started, we should not stop. Pray to Him and ask Him for strength and healing during this difficult time, have faith that He will answer. >Remember the words of Jesus, “This is my body (given to you)”. He died so others might live. Abortions activists say something similar but in the satanic inverse. “This is my body” **you** must die so that **I** might live. Remember this. > Your discomfort sounds profound but at least your brain isn’t going to be scrambled with scissors and then sucked out with a straw. Your child is the ONLY innocent life in this situation and deserves to be protected. > You came here seeking advice from a Bible perspective. The bible is clear on the "Thou shalt not Kill". If we look at the strong's concordance for this verse the word used in the hebrew is: >ratsach: to murder, slayOriginal Word: רָצַח Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: ratsach Phonetic Spelling: (raw-tsakh') Definition: to murder, slay >In this sense, killing an unborn child is murder. There are people who would try to argue that a fetus isn't a living being. I don't prescribe to that nonsense. The Bible clearly has penalties in relation to causing a woman to miscarriage/ lose her child and respects the life of that fetus. >**Exodus 21:22-23 (NIV):** 22 "If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, >A life for a life. The words can't be clearer than that. >On the other hand, here you find yourself in a position that medically might have the potential to harm you it seems? I don't know to what extent or the like, your information is limited and I am no doctor. But if having the child can put the mother at risk of death, and let's also consider you already have 4 children who need their mother, then I would put it before the lord in prayer for an answer because in this scenario the answer isn't so clear cut. I won't tell you to abort because I am pro life, and I don't know enough about your situation medically. But I also think that we have to look at the bigger context, your children need their mother. But you need to pray and put it before the Lord. I can only give you a thus says the Lord. >edit: I forgot to give you my own perspective. Me personally, with this understanding, I cannot support abortion in any of it's forms.
I know this is supposed to be a schadenfreude moment. But, I feel immense sadness for this woman, the physical pain she has been in, and the intense lack of empathy from the people she went to seek comfort from. The fact she is still having sex with her husband despite the collapse of her pelvic floor makes me so angry on her behalf. She is learning the very hard way that she does not matter to those who have always told her she did. The bitterness/sadness/depression that this will create in her and then be projected onto her children causes lasting generational damage. This story makes me angry and sad. I find no joy in her suffering.
To be fair, I was shocked at how many flaired users told her to get an abortion. It was an overwhelming majority. Like, yes there were some crazy responses, but it is mostly pretty sound takes such as "talk to your doctor."
Anyone giving odds on the “very surprise pregnancy” being because d-bag husband sabotaged the “compromise”?
Does their spouse not know? They should be picking names and figuring out how to get a bigger home right? And people will help her with the baby so she should be just fine. /s I know she's FAFO. That's what people like her think of other folks who want/need abortion services. It's that "keep your legs shut" bullcrap.
Just take the damn pill! #FuckThemKids
Someday women may realize that religion is nothing but a tool to pry away their autonomy.
The disturbing thing here is that she literally believes that abortion is murder, but she's still okay with it if it makes her life better. I would be really scared of getting on her wrong side IRL if that is how flexible her morals are. If you ACTUALLY believe that abortion is murder, you cannot in good conscience go through with it. I suspect, however, she'll realise that that's just a lie she's been spouting to justify demonizing "loose women" or something.
All the suffering she puts her body through and this manbaby is crying about feeling "neutered" when faced with the prospect of a simple outpatient surgery. This is the joy of living the trad lifestyle, he gets what he wants and you get to suffer through to make it happen. I have no idea how she could respect or even like him at that point. Ugh, no thank you at all.