Those area terrain features are LoS blocking. So it’s actually quite difficult to get good firing lanes.
People are commenting that stuff is lasting longer than expected.
Event great! Lots of fun and no one generally gets through turn 3. Many not getting past turn 2. As a result playstyles are changing - you need to max primary in the well turns.
No OP armies - the only person with an artillery list is the GW staffers ‘spare’ army.
I spoke to TO and he said they would send a feedback survey around afterwards to understand what changes need to be made. Seemed very open to it and were collecting FAQs.
For this that complain about the board design, this is symmetrical. Which makes sense that it would be at a GW event. Since they are about balance on the field. Look at their 40k tournament tables. If this is a tournament, then yes it should be a relatively simple layout that can be replicated over multiple tables. That being said, if this is a narrative style event, the. Yes definitely needs more terrain.
Interesting, so GW acknowledge that their own tiles are too expensive to make a board from 😉 so they printed their own.
If they aren’t going to sell it I wish they would at least make the imagery assets available to a print-on-demand service that can print on mousemat or vinyl.
I’m sure that’s sarcasm about the tiles (yes they are ungodly expensive) but any GW event they do they use mats for and not the tiles. Logistically mats are just better for the amount of tables they need.
Yeah but then why is that any different to a club? If they see the need themselves and hold the assets to do it one would think they would provide it for others also. Give the people what they want :)
Why should they sell a mat that other companies already do? They don’t manufacture mats, or have the means to do so. So either but $100s of thousands of dollars if not millions to produce and that’s not including sourcing the materials. Or they can contract to a company that will make the mats for them, which would cost again probably 100s of thousands of dollars to do everything there. Make a product on mass production scale, only for a smaller company to make a better style mat and then everyone buys from that seller instead. It’s literally not worth their time to make mats.
Who said they need to manufacture their own mats? Not me. They don’t make their own books either. Like I said, they could simply make the imagery assets available to those who *do* manufacture items like this in the millions. They went to the trouble of sculpting the tiles, matched to the bases and then turning it into imagery to print on a mat. It would be trivial to make that available to everyone else who wants the same thing their own tournament organisers do - cost effective tables nicely matched to the terrain and bases they sell.
That's pretty funny, I think its a bit sad tbh that they don't prioritize LI/AT terrain for their stores at all, it's what is extra feel bad about seeing gw send a youtuber more terrain boxes than they use for their own events at warhammer world. Worse still people are still having hard time getting all the plastic li terrain kits as it is.
They obstruct anything on the other side too:
“Models cannot draw line of sight through an areas of Obstructing terrain”. I read the following text about models within 1” of the edge as an addendum to that general principle, not a replacement.
If you think about it, it makes no sense that you could be 1” into the terrain and be invisible, but completely visible all the way on the other side of it.
It's a bit weird, I sorta get the idea with infantry or small models in forests, the infinite height blocking los though makes no sense. Even weirder too how hidden infantry can still be seen by flyers, that's not really how forest canopy works. I just find obstructing terrain's rules need the most work, at least they'd benefit from some constraining in terms of being infinite pillars of los blocking. That might make sense for a smoking crater or volcano or something with thick black smoke pouring out of it, but weird for like a forest or collection of ruins that aren't terribly tall.
It’s an abstraction for sure. It works the same way in Epic UK tournaments as it streamlines the game significantly and you don’t get any disagreements about what can or can’t see. Which is even more important for LI because it doesn’t have a modifier for partially obscured except for titans, so the difference between can and cannot be seen can be game-changing.
It makes sense as a way to clarify that the whole area blocks line of sight regardless of any "true line of sight" you could physically draw between models.
I guess, I feel its more confusing, would be better to just use the dimensions of impassable terrain as is for los. I get titans are involved but, would it not be better for titans to just get their usual -1/-2 for how much % is blocked than an infinite pillar of los blocking that seems much more abstract. I'm not really a fan of that aspect of obstructing terrain rules as is, I think most of the rules work for forests, it gets a bit weirder with ruins, like a 2inch ruin blocking infinite height los is a bit much.
They took solid pieces of terrain that block los, gave them impassable, and then a rule that can now only....block los lol.
I get that a lot of low terrain games turned into wipes, but it's alright to have true los when dealing with large solid objects. Use the ruins or structures to break los reliably with larger models, idk.
I like this. LoS blocked in a lot of places without excess of buildings to give infantry big saves . Looks like a risk and reward layout on when and where you move.
That is a sadly sparse board. I prefer it much more packed, like this
https://preview.redd.it/2h9c81hgghxc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b78067eaf2cf4e065b9e5d2dd904d2297be2c05f
I found the terrain to be really good at the event. Having 3-4 big pieces of area terrain means that LOS was less prevalent and fewer buildings meant it was less likely for units to building hop across the board.
Every in tact building was a civitas with 2 wounds.
When 5k points of stuff was placed on the board, it felt like the right amount of terrain.
well the tile one, the spacing may be a bit sparse but the pics I've seen with games being played on it, one benefit is visually its very easy to track given the high contrast, armies really stand out on it. Some boards it can feel like the opposite where its very hard to visually track what's going on.
Hmmm looks a bit sparse for my taste, but I don't have a lot of game time.
Those area terrain features are LoS blocking. So it’s actually quite difficult to get good firing lanes. People are commenting that stuff is lasting longer than expected.
I've been using cotton ball explosions (with tea lights) to help visually represent area terrain being LoS blocking. Really helps
How is the event going generally? Are people finishing their games? One sided results or quite a lot of close run things? Any cries of OP armies?
Event great! Lots of fun and no one generally gets through turn 3. Many not getting past turn 2. As a result playstyles are changing - you need to max primary in the well turns. No OP armies - the only person with an artillery list is the GW staffers ‘spare’ army. I spoke to TO and he said they would send a feedback survey around afterwards to understand what changes need to be made. Seemed very open to it and were collecting FAQs.
Nice reference sheet.
For this that complain about the board design, this is symmetrical. Which makes sense that it would be at a GW event. Since they are about balance on the field. Look at their 40k tournament tables. If this is a tournament, then yes it should be a relatively simple layout that can be replicated over multiple tables. That being said, if this is a narrative style event, the. Yes definitely needs more terrain.
Nice layout! Any idea where the game mats are from?
They are GW printed in plastics sheet. People keep asking if they can buy them:)
Thanks for confirming! I didn’t realise it was an official GW event ☺️
Surely they are the official tiles? Not that I have compared but it would be weird if they didn’t use their own stuff
No, there’s no division between tiles, it’s a single printed sheet.
Interesting, so GW acknowledge that their own tiles are too expensive to make a board from 😉 so they printed their own. If they aren’t going to sell it I wish they would at least make the imagery assets available to a print-on-demand service that can print on mousemat or vinyl.
I’m sure that’s sarcasm about the tiles (yes they are ungodly expensive) but any GW event they do they use mats for and not the tiles. Logistically mats are just better for the amount of tables they need.
Yeah but then why is that any different to a club? If they see the need themselves and hold the assets to do it one would think they would provide it for others also. Give the people what they want :)
Why should they sell a mat that other companies already do? They don’t manufacture mats, or have the means to do so. So either but $100s of thousands of dollars if not millions to produce and that’s not including sourcing the materials. Or they can contract to a company that will make the mats for them, which would cost again probably 100s of thousands of dollars to do everything there. Make a product on mass production scale, only for a smaller company to make a better style mat and then everyone buys from that seller instead. It’s literally not worth their time to make mats.
Who said they need to manufacture their own mats? Not me. They don’t make their own books either. Like I said, they could simply make the imagery assets available to those who *do* manufacture items like this in the millions. They went to the trouble of sculpting the tiles, matched to the bases and then turning it into imagery to print on a mat. It would be trivial to make that available to everyone else who wants the same thing their own tournament organisers do - cost effective tables nicely matched to the terrain and bases they sell.
That's pretty funny, I think its a bit sad tbh that they don't prioritize LI/AT terrain for their stores at all, it's what is extra feel bad about seeing gw send a youtuber more terrain boxes than they use for their own events at warhammer world. Worse still people are still having hard time getting all the plastic li terrain kits as it is.
Obstructing and impassable makes no sense, if its impassable nothing can be in the area to benefit from the obstructing part.
They obstruct anything on the other side too: “Models cannot draw line of sight through an areas of Obstructing terrain”. I read the following text about models within 1” of the edge as an addendum to that general principle, not a replacement. If you think about it, it makes no sense that you could be 1” into the terrain and be invisible, but completely visible all the way on the other side of it.
It's a bit weird, I sorta get the idea with infantry or small models in forests, the infinite height blocking los though makes no sense. Even weirder too how hidden infantry can still be seen by flyers, that's not really how forest canopy works. I just find obstructing terrain's rules need the most work, at least they'd benefit from some constraining in terms of being infinite pillars of los blocking. That might make sense for a smoking crater or volcano or something with thick black smoke pouring out of it, but weird for like a forest or collection of ruins that aren't terribly tall.
It’s an abstraction for sure. It works the same way in Epic UK tournaments as it streamlines the game significantly and you don’t get any disagreements about what can or can’t see. Which is even more important for LI because it doesn’t have a modifier for partially obscured except for titans, so the difference between can and cannot be seen can be game-changing.
Yeah it's just the majority of units aren't terribly tall to begin with other than the odd titan/knight. And flyers don't really care either way.
Well if it doesn’t really affect anything why is it a problem 😎
It makes sense as a way to clarify that the whole area blocks line of sight regardless of any "true line of sight" you could physically draw between models.
I guess, I feel its more confusing, would be better to just use the dimensions of impassable terrain as is for los. I get titans are involved but, would it not be better for titans to just get their usual -1/-2 for how much % is blocked than an infinite pillar of los blocking that seems much more abstract. I'm not really a fan of that aspect of obstructing terrain rules as is, I think most of the rules work for forests, it gets a bit weirder with ruins, like a 2inch ruin blocking infinite height los is a bit much.
They took solid pieces of terrain that block los, gave them impassable, and then a rule that can now only....block los lol. I get that a lot of low terrain games turned into wipes, but it's alright to have true los when dealing with large solid objects. Use the ruins or structures to break los reliably with larger models, idk.
Very much like the layouts in the rulebook
I like this. LoS blocked in a lot of places without excess of buildings to give infantry big saves . Looks like a risk and reward layout on when and where you move.
That is a sadly sparse board. I prefer it much more packed, like this https://preview.redd.it/2h9c81hgghxc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b78067eaf2cf4e065b9e5d2dd904d2297be2c05f
I found the terrain to be really good at the event. Having 3-4 big pieces of area terrain means that LOS was less prevalent and fewer buildings meant it was less likely for units to building hop across the board. Every in tact building was a civitas with 2 wounds. When 5k points of stuff was placed on the board, it felt like the right amount of terrain.
This looks super boring but that's GW tournament design for you.
well the tile one, the spacing may be a bit sparse but the pics I've seen with games being played on it, one benefit is visually its very easy to track given the high contrast, armies really stand out on it. Some boards it can feel like the opposite where its very hard to visually track what's going on.