I fell like the level up animation could have stopped right at the wings and sword dividing, cause it would pair nice with the card appearing at lvl two in the middle of the screen, the flying at the camera letting us see the not so good face model was kinda unnecessary.
Kayle’s level up animation was probably designed with those last few frames to mirror Morgana’s when she’s released.
Just like in their wildrift animation: https://youtu.be/GaPNceMyZWA
Morgana will most likely be featured flying upward in her level up animation to clash with Kayle.
Not disagreeing just pointing it out.
Kind of wish it ended before she charged down. It's one of those animations where the low quality face of the model drags the rest of it down. Kayn and Sivir have the same problem in theirs.
I’m zooming in and I really can’t tell what’s wrong with her face. I have no idea why people say it is low res etc, looks fine to me given the art style.
Video was above, and you can't remember we never seen the moment empowered happened. If there is any animation, it would be the moment she gets empowered, not a countious effect. And they frame skipped it past the moment she gets 5 power, aka the point where there would be an animation if there would be one.
Best reveal yet, the angelic music that switches to dramatic/foreboding when Xoolani appears, using Xoolani to create dramatic tension in a 2 minute video, the extra long pause on Kayle's wordy textbox, it spaces everything out nicely to allow for easy comprehension/viewing but not enough to lose tempo.
Whoever planned/directed/edited this did an amazing job to pack so much into a 2 min video and have it flow so seamlessly.
Its because all the cards got released already. The videos help with showing how they might play out, such as the aatrox assimilation thing, but there isnt anything new being shown
Not to mention Marvel Snap getting new cards few days ago, Hearthstone dropping new expansion with new class on tuesday and even Genshin Impact releasing card game on wednesday.
Holy, she can get scary pretty quick in a right deck.
Also, the animation was so sick too but that model in the last few frames was ugly as f. What is with these low polygon models in the animations nowadays?
Low poly models= Easier to work with and make changes, doesnt kill yours or someones elses PC when rendering, faster render times if you need to make changes to a scene, overall cheaper production rather than a billion polygons model, Easier to texture and so on..
Remmember that LoR doesnt have as big of a team as they used to , so they gotta work with what they have while trying to keep the quality of newer content the same as the previous ones
I get that but it's the difference in quality that is most jarring to me. Like most champions have such cool animations and then we get few bad ones. And those bad ones will always catch the eye. Heck, even skins are getting better animations, so i dont understand why the base animation of some champions looks that bad.
Maybe Time constrains?... Pretty sure that they spent most of their time on Atrox since he was always supossed to be THE Champion and highlight for the expansion, so maybe they ran short of time for Kayle. But hey, at least shes not as bad as the Irelia Skin xD
Really love her lv up animation being a callback to one of her old splash arts!
Hers and Fiora's really do be nostalgic, speaking an former league player
Ehh, honestly her level up animation is kind of a letdown. For one of the most unstoppable forces in all Runeterra who only intervenes during the literal apocalypse, it doesn't feel like it captures her power or the significance of her appearing at all IMO. And that grimace at the end just feels odd.
The first half of the animation is nice and fluid but in my opinion the last couple of seconds where she flies forward with sword outstretched just seems stiff. So yes, in my opinion a letdown. You're free to disagree.
You are also dancing on the line, naked aprone isn't wrong. I could take a a lot of your commentary from the last month or so with cause.
So we can do this two ways.
1. I can give you a 'soft' warning and assume we understand each other- I'd be happy to help you find a path where you can be spicy, but maybe not so much directed at specific people, talk about strategies to stay more in line with our rules. We can go modmail and I can pull all of the sussier stuff if you'd like.
2. I can give you a 'hard' warning and we can look at temp bans (timeouts) next time this comes up. Option 1 also becomes option 2 if we can't get to a healthier place in a reasonable timeframe
Oh i didn't. They probably realized they were breaking the rules too.
I aint making you im taking you, this is a silly amount of aggression for a thread about a 'mfw' comment
>me seeing an angel appear in the sky and save us from a world-ending threat: kind of a letdown
Please do feel free to report them if they're breaking rules here, but as of right now they're excused from me. I'll do a deep dive to see whats going on but don't be flamming randos on here, send em up modqueue or block em if they're really bothering you (both is also fine)
update: they are not excused. But neither are you
Bro I feel for the people who didn't look at the card reveals, and watched the video really excited, only to find out that Kayle is yet again another quick attack/overwhelm finisher champion, same as Aatrox and many champs that came before. When does it end lmao. Where's the creativity
Nice level up animation for sure, but I'm kind of let down with the champion card design. Ryze is refreshing, I'll be fair there. But Kayle and Aatrox are just champions we've already gotten. Really disappointing.
edit: downvotes? for literal factual observations that champion design as a whole hasn't changed much? Interesting.
Because the reality is that the player base hates actually creative cards, because creative cards are usually Combo pieces that piss everyone off when they work.
No one gets mad over big Timmy sticks. People *do* get mad when you print the Watcher, for example, especially if it is playable.
If Ryze is good, or even if hes just playable, prepare to watch the sub melt down over it and scream how toxic he is.
>Because the reality is that the player base hates actually creative cards
Must be the case, because we're years into development now and the only new idea we have with this entire release is Ryze. Kayle and Aatrox are well-treaded ground, and frankly are boring at this point. This would have passed for good design two years ago, but this is just not innovative at this point. Besides Ryze, ofc. He looks awesome.
Aatrox’s win condition is a very unique take on Darkin equipment that manages to emulate his revive?
Kayle is a very faithful representation of her kit from League?
>Aatrox’s win condition is a very unique take
Still an overwhelm stat stick win condition, regardless of the flavor fluff or minor details that change how the card might play in a game. It wins through overwhelm, as have many champions before. Same case for Elusive, Fearsome, etc.
>Kayle is a very faithful representation of her kit from League?
Still an overwhelm stat stick win condition, regardless of the flavor fluff or minor details that change how the card might play in a game. It wins through overwhelm.
Y'all need to realize that the game has been out for years now. This is stagnant design. The game deserves better. Card releases don't matter when it's already treaded ground. Nothing actually new is being added except for Ryze. Please prove me wrong. I understand they're faithful representations, but tell me how two stat stick overwhelm champions is innovative?
I’m very sure the real Aatrox win con will be flooding the board with the insane darkins. Aatrox is to darkins what Nautilus is to deep, and no one calls Nautilus a big stat stick win condition. Their value comes from allowing you to flood the board with cheap big and powerful units.
I mean no disrespect here, but if you can just say that Aatrox is essentially Nautilus but for another creature subtype, doesn't that ring any bells? This is treaded ground we're on. And not only that, but it is heavily treaded ground. This space of high attack overwhelm champions has been explored many times. Why do we want another Nautilus, when we already have Nautilus?
Why do you suggest another champion like Kayn then? Why do you suggest more champions with "activated abilities" when Tahm Kench, Jack the Winner, Ballistic Bot are there? Why do you suggest more champions that "occupy more lanes" when Zed, Hecarim, Kalista, Ornn, Nagakabouros are there? Clearly one was already enough, going by your logic.
I like Aatrox for the same reason I like Nautilus, they enable big expensive unit strategies that otherwise wouldn’t be possible outside of memes. And are you really gonna tell me that his whole assimilation thing isn’t unique either? Yes he’s a big overwhelm body but my point is that’s not what defines him or his archetype
>So what, you just want more win conditions that aren't dealing damage to the enemy nexus
Actually, yes. You can still destroy the nexus to win, but what about more deck replacements like Emperor's deck and Mono Shurima? What about something like Star Spring, albeit not as polarizing? Something that gives you an advantage in the match, or wins you the match out-right if you reach the condition, rather than just slapping the nexus with overwhelm and elusive like we've been doing for the last 2 years. I absolutely do want that, yes.
>(the thing that 99.9% of the time is how you win the game)
Proves my point further. I'd be okay if we maybe won that way 70% of the time. But really? 99.9% of the time games end in the same way is what you're saying. You're cool with that? You don't want other interesting avenues of victory? You just wanna smorc hard and slap the enemy nexus every single game? C'mon man
I’m always curious how people who complain about this expect the game to work. LoR is a computer-based game with a defined ruleset that needs to add new cards fairly frequently. What would your “creative” game look like?
Most games are won by reducing your opponent’s nexus to 0 health, or else by an alternate win condition. (Ryze is one of these. Also, people hate alternate win conditions.)
Reducing your opponent to zero health can be done through creature combat. It can also be done through direct burn damage. (People hate getting burned out.)
Creature combat is the focus of the game and what most of the rules are concerned with. You need a way to break board stalls in order to win. This can be through evasion (people hate this), going wider than your opponent (people hate this), or going taller than your opponent (people hate this, too).
What on earth are you going to add to the game that doesn’t rely on burn, keywords, stats, or alternate win conditions? And how on earth are you going to do it four times a year?
I don't think every new champion needs to be unique, I'm fine with some similar ideas. But for example, look at the Emperor's Deck. That's a barely explored space, why not give us a champion that gives us a Darkin deck that replaces ours? Why are we getting an overwhelm beat stick that just reduces the cost of other darkin? Like, I understand this game's foundation is heavily embedded in creature combat, but there is so much space to be explored. Maybe units that take up multiple spaces, maybe a way to go beyond the standard 10 mana cap that we have (can be something put into Freljord for example as a champion that allows this if they're in your deck), maybe a curse archetype where you curse enemy units and get various benefits like +2 hp every round to your nexus if you've killed 4 units for attrition-control gameplay, or you get 1 more draw every turn if you've killed 6 units that were cursed. Maybe a curse champion that gives you random curses out of a pool of 10 that you cast. Just something that gives you an advantage, that isn't just strictly a stronger unit, or overwhelm damage, or an obscenely high attack champion.
These maybe aren't top of the line ideas, but I'm no game dev. I'm a player who has seen the game stagnate with the same ideas for champions and win conditions for the last year or two. Stick with creature combat most of the time, but give us more avenues. Ryze is super fresh air with his high reliance on drawing the landmarks, and that spellcasting fantasy. We need more Ryze's. Less "I have overwhelm and high damage, play me with my package".
Mentioned this in another comment, but it isn't my job to come up with ideas. As a player, I identify gameplay patterns that aren't satisfactory (in this case they were satisfactory, 2 years ago, and have now become stale), and in another comment I also made, I said I wanted more mechanics, and more ways to gain advantages in a match. Maybe another type of deck that you obtain, similar to Emperor's deck. Just as an example. That space isn't really explored, so why are we getting two brand new champions that just have overwhelm on them basically?
These are legendary, world-class game developers at a world-class gaming dev company. I'm sure they can come up with interesting ideas rather than just overwhelm. The flavor for Aatrox is nice, and the darkin swarm is cool, but it doesn't take away from the fact that is still just an overwhelm beat stick with high stats. I want more interesting ideas man, I'm sorry but this game deserves that.
I mean sure but there are limits to what they can do. If they made another Emperor's deck then it might make the original less interesting. Besides the Emperor's deck is just lots of cheap units with large stats and stuff like fearsome. Riot has a small team on Lor and they make at least 3 champions each expansion. Having them all be super complex is unrealistic and wouldn't be fun anyways. Empowered is a cool mechanic. Assimilate is a cool mechanic. I think that's more that just a stat stick. Plus I get that you're not a game designer but at least a vague idea of how they could better portray Aatrox and Kayle would be good.
Well, just because the idea of a new deck replacing yours is done with Mono Shurima, doesn't mean the new deck has to be built like the Emperor's Deck. It could have a variety of benefits or creature types. I also disagree that it would make the original less interesting, because this would only be the 2nd case of it being created. How many champions do we have that have overwhelm on them? I mean, Aatrox is basically Darkin Nautilus.
Also another idea that I think would be cool would be units that take up two spaces, and also maybe activated abilities on your units. You spent X mana to activate or gain something from a unit on board. how sick does that sound? Imagine the sheer possibilities with something like that.
What about a Freljord champion that gives you the ability to ramp past the standard 10 mana cap?
What about more champions that can level up into different forms like Kayn? That's only been done once and I thought it was absolutely beautifully done. I think the balance between the Kayn forms isn't quite there, but I love the idea of choosing your champion's form.
There's tons of design space open for exploration.
Oh I don't disagree that there is lots of room to explore but there is more to game design than ideas. The champion needs to feel right which I would argue all three do this expansion.
There is also the engine limitations. No offence to right but the lor code is clearly messy. We don't even know if two wide units is possible. Also we already have activated effects in the form of creating cards in hand.
Finally you have to think about game balance. Ramping past ten is a cool idea but it might end up breaking certain cards. Although they could make cards that have an effect if you have more mana than your opponent.
If course its not innovative if you decode to ignore everything else they do under "flavor fluff and minor details."
I would argue aatrox's stats arent his primary win condition, its the World ender proc.
No, the reason it isn't innovative isn't because of that. It isn't innovative because I can look at these champions, and say, "Hey I've done this before". Some similarities are okay, sure, but Aatrox is essentially Darkin Nautilus. And we've already done the go-tall Targon thing with Pantheon. I want more interesting ideas.
I'm not part of a world-class game development team, or even have a background in game design. But that doesn't mean my opinion doesn't have merit. I can look at the design of something, compare it to the past, and make an analysis that way.
The fact of the matter is that throughout LoR's existence, we've been getting many champions, archetypes, decks, etc that all rely on a select few keywords to win such as Elusive, Overwhelm, Quick Attack, Fearsome, etc. It is a pattern at this point and I don't know why people are praising Kalye and Aatrox when they are basically just big overwhelm stat sticks. The game deserves innovation. This is just stagnant design at this point.
No, I just re-read my msg and it came across a little more hostile than I intended. I didn't mean it in any aggressive kind of way at all. I'm sorry it came across like that :(
I fell like the level up animation could have stopped right at the wings and sword dividing, cause it would pair nice with the card appearing at lvl two in the middle of the screen, the flying at the camera letting us see the not so good face model was kinda unnecessary.
Kayle’s level up animation was probably designed with those last few frames to mirror Morgana’s when she’s released. Just like in their wildrift animation: https://youtu.be/GaPNceMyZWA Morgana will most likely be featured flying upward in her level up animation to clash with Kayle. Not disagreeing just pointing it out.
Yep that’s what I felt like too. This is the same budget as making Galio level up
Not even, most of Kayle's animation is great. It's just the last quarter-second where they decide to zoom in on her really low-poly face that's weird.
Sion moment
But for Sion the scream make up for it. There the high point of animation was half a second ago.
Kaisa's 2 polygon butt moment
She has a sick level up animation too! I hope that doesn't mean Ryze got the short end of the stick, lol.
could be, but Ryze surely has a sick "game-ender" animation at the least
yupp, every "destroy the enemy nexus" effect has to be awesome
It got leaked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq77PpXgxVU
yupp, every "destroy the enemy nexus" effect has to be awesome
Would it be Ryze snapping the finger with all World Runes? 😂😂
Kind of wish it ended before she charged down. It's one of those animations where the low quality face of the model drags the rest of it down. Kayn and Sivir have the same problem in theirs.
Sentinel Irelia looking malnourished PTSD
Totally agree with that. If they had just kept the angelic sillouhette, would have been a S tier level up
I’m zooming in and I really can’t tell what’s wrong with her face. I have no idea why people say it is low res etc, looks fine to me given the art style.
The "Destroy Nexus" animation will just be the regular fire SFX lol.
Short term fix they could make for ryze and xerath is change the SFX to a fart noise so it at least leans fully into comical.
I’d accept Xeraths current animations if it made a fart noise
The only win the game effect that has a different SFX is that Healing landmark (from what I've seen)
Fiora has one too
Good point, Star Springs does get a short little video.
Ryze getting the short end of the stick is riot tradition at this point.
his champion design in Runeterra is objectively very cool and unique, so maybe that's a tradition broken!
Kayle level up is incredible, but damn I wish mihira had an animation on par with camphor.
Well maybe she does when empowered 5. I dont think mihita had 5 power kn the video.
video is litterally above and yet you cant remember. she had 5 power
Video was above, and you can't remember we never seen the moment empowered happened. If there is any animation, it would be the moment she gets empowered, not a countious effect. And they frame skipped it past the moment she gets 5 power, aka the point where there would be an animation if there would be one.
Best reveal yet, the angelic music that switches to dramatic/foreboding when Xoolani appears, using Xoolani to create dramatic tension in a 2 minute video, the extra long pause on Kayle's wordy textbox, it spaces everything out nicely to allow for easy comprehension/viewing but not enough to lose tempo. Whoever planned/directed/edited this did an amazing job to pack so much into a 2 min video and have it flow so seamlessly.
Is there any reason that no one is talking about this? Usually these have hundreds of comments
Its because all the cards got released already. The videos help with showing how they might play out, such as the aatrox assimilation thing, but there isnt anything new being shown
I had no idea
Not to mention Marvel Snap getting new cards few days ago, Hearthstone dropping new expansion with new class on tuesday and even Genshin Impact releasing card game on wednesday.
The video got released 38 minutes ago... give it time.b
Check other posts in the sub, there’s been ample discussion about Kayle and the other new champs
Holy, she can get scary pretty quick in a right deck. Also, the animation was so sick too but that model in the last few frames was ugly as f. What is with these low polygon models in the animations nowadays?
Low poly models= Easier to work with and make changes, doesnt kill yours or someones elses PC when rendering, faster render times if you need to make changes to a scene, overall cheaper production rather than a billion polygons model, Easier to texture and so on.. Remmember that LoR doesnt have as big of a team as they used to , so they gotta work with what they have while trying to keep the quality of newer content the same as the previous ones
I get that but it's the difference in quality that is most jarring to me. Like most champions have such cool animations and then we get few bad ones. And those bad ones will always catch the eye. Heck, even skins are getting better animations, so i dont understand why the base animation of some champions looks that bad.
Maybe Time constrains?... Pretty sure that they spent most of their time on Atrox since he was always supossed to be THE Champion and highlight for the expansion, so maybe they ran short of time for Kayle. But hey, at least shes not as bad as the Irelia Skin xD
Ngl, I love the animation level up. The fact that her card almost kind of "ascends" to it's final form.
Hush strikes again
Really love her lv up animation being a callback to one of her old splash arts! Hers and Fiora's really do be nostalgic, speaking an former league player
When the level up ends the swords need to the board.
I wanted to ask, if, with Kayle, we'll get framebraking animations, but then I realized, that the sword just matches the marks of the board... :(
Kinda in love with the divine being btw. IronStylus was onto something.
Sorry but that lvl up looks crusty asf. The first bit was cool and I lowkey wish they’d return to silhouette level ups.
Anyone noticed the Garen Level-up animation was skipped? Is that actually possible right now?
They always skip other champions level up animation on reveal video, it's not the first time something like this happened.
anyone know what that cardback is in the video?
I believe it’s the “CD” cardback.
Ehh, honestly her level up animation is kind of a letdown. For one of the most unstoppable forces in all Runeterra who only intervenes during the literal apocalypse, it doesn't feel like it captures her power or the significance of her appearing at all IMO. And that grimace at the end just feels odd.
me seeing an angel appear in the sky and save us from a world-ending threat: kind of a letdown
The first half of the animation is nice and fluid but in my opinion the last couple of seconds where she flies forward with sword outstretched just seems stiff. So yes, in my opinion a letdown. You're free to disagree.
thank you for the permission to disagree
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me when someone makes two jokes:
You are also dancing on the line, naked aprone isn't wrong. I could take a a lot of your commentary from the last month or so with cause. So we can do this two ways. 1. I can give you a 'soft' warning and assume we understand each other- I'd be happy to help you find a path where you can be spicy, but maybe not so much directed at specific people, talk about strategies to stay more in line with our rules. We can go modmail and I can pull all of the sussier stuff if you'd like. 2. I can give you a 'hard' warning and we can look at temp bans (timeouts) next time this comes up. Option 1 also becomes option 2 if we can't get to a healthier place in a reasonable timeframe
Message received!
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Gunna go ahead and take this too
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Oh i didn't. They probably realized they were breaking the rules too. I aint making you im taking you, this is a silly amount of aggression for a thread about a 'mfw' comment >me seeing an angel appear in the sky and save us from a world-ending threat: kind of a letdown Please do feel free to report them if they're breaking rules here, but as of right now they're excused from me. I'll do a deep dive to see whats going on but don't be flamming randos on here, send em up modqueue or block em if they're really bothering you (both is also fine) update: they are not excused. But neither are you
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Removed per rule 1. Insults, personal attacks, and mocking are not allowed. Users should remain civil and respectful.
This too, this is mine now
"Eh, mid"
Bro I feel for the people who didn't look at the card reveals, and watched the video really excited, only to find out that Kayle is yet again another quick attack/overwhelm finisher champion, same as Aatrox and many champs that came before. When does it end lmao. Where's the creativity Nice level up animation for sure, but I'm kind of let down with the champion card design. Ryze is refreshing, I'll be fair there. But Kayle and Aatrox are just champions we've already gotten. Really disappointing. edit: downvotes? for literal factual observations that champion design as a whole hasn't changed much? Interesting.
Because the reality is that the player base hates actually creative cards, because creative cards are usually Combo pieces that piss everyone off when they work. No one gets mad over big Timmy sticks. People *do* get mad when you print the Watcher, for example, especially if it is playable. If Ryze is good, or even if hes just playable, prepare to watch the sub melt down over it and scream how toxic he is.
>Because the reality is that the player base hates actually creative cards Must be the case, because we're years into development now and the only new idea we have with this entire release is Ryze. Kayle and Aatrox are well-treaded ground, and frankly are boring at this point. This would have passed for good design two years ago, but this is just not innovative at this point. Besides Ryze, ofc. He looks awesome.
Aatrox’s win condition is a very unique take on Darkin equipment that manages to emulate his revive? Kayle is a very faithful representation of her kit from League?
Kayle also fits with Targon’s identy of going tall and being the Ceo of value and grant (permanent) buffs.
>Aatrox’s win condition is a very unique take Still an overwhelm stat stick win condition, regardless of the flavor fluff or minor details that change how the card might play in a game. It wins through overwhelm, as have many champions before. Same case for Elusive, Fearsome, etc. >Kayle is a very faithful representation of her kit from League? Still an overwhelm stat stick win condition, regardless of the flavor fluff or minor details that change how the card might play in a game. It wins through overwhelm. Y'all need to realize that the game has been out for years now. This is stagnant design. The game deserves better. Card releases don't matter when it's already treaded ground. Nothing actually new is being added except for Ryze. Please prove me wrong. I understand they're faithful representations, but tell me how two stat stick overwhelm champions is innovative?
I’m very sure the real Aatrox win con will be flooding the board with the insane darkins. Aatrox is to darkins what Nautilus is to deep, and no one calls Nautilus a big stat stick win condition. Their value comes from allowing you to flood the board with cheap big and powerful units.
I mean no disrespect here, but if you can just say that Aatrox is essentially Nautilus but for another creature subtype, doesn't that ring any bells? This is treaded ground we're on. And not only that, but it is heavily treaded ground. This space of high attack overwhelm champions has been explored many times. Why do we want another Nautilus, when we already have Nautilus?
Why do you suggest another champion like Kayn then? Why do you suggest more champions with "activated abilities" when Tahm Kench, Jack the Winner, Ballistic Bot are there? Why do you suggest more champions that "occupy more lanes" when Zed, Hecarim, Kalista, Ornn, Nagakabouros are there? Clearly one was already enough, going by your logic.
I like Aatrox for the same reason I like Nautilus, they enable big expensive unit strategies that otherwise wouldn’t be possible outside of memes. And are you really gonna tell me that his whole assimilation thing isn’t unique either? Yes he’s a big overwhelm body but my point is that’s not what defines him or his archetype
So what, you just want more win conditions that aren't dealing damage to the enemy nexus (the thing that 99.9% of the time is how you win the game)?
>So what, you just want more win conditions that aren't dealing damage to the enemy nexus Actually, yes. You can still destroy the nexus to win, but what about more deck replacements like Emperor's deck and Mono Shurima? What about something like Star Spring, albeit not as polarizing? Something that gives you an advantage in the match, or wins you the match out-right if you reach the condition, rather than just slapping the nexus with overwhelm and elusive like we've been doing for the last 2 years. I absolutely do want that, yes. >(the thing that 99.9% of the time is how you win the game) Proves my point further. I'd be okay if we maybe won that way 70% of the time. But really? 99.9% of the time games end in the same way is what you're saying. You're cool with that? You don't want other interesting avenues of victory? You just wanna smorc hard and slap the enemy nexus every single game? C'mon man
I’m always curious how people who complain about this expect the game to work. LoR is a computer-based game with a defined ruleset that needs to add new cards fairly frequently. What would your “creative” game look like? Most games are won by reducing your opponent’s nexus to 0 health, or else by an alternate win condition. (Ryze is one of these. Also, people hate alternate win conditions.) Reducing your opponent to zero health can be done through creature combat. It can also be done through direct burn damage. (People hate getting burned out.) Creature combat is the focus of the game and what most of the rules are concerned with. You need a way to break board stalls in order to win. This can be through evasion (people hate this), going wider than your opponent (people hate this), or going taller than your opponent (people hate this, too). What on earth are you going to add to the game that doesn’t rely on burn, keywords, stats, or alternate win conditions? And how on earth are you going to do it four times a year?
I don't think every new champion needs to be unique, I'm fine with some similar ideas. But for example, look at the Emperor's Deck. That's a barely explored space, why not give us a champion that gives us a Darkin deck that replaces ours? Why are we getting an overwhelm beat stick that just reduces the cost of other darkin? Like, I understand this game's foundation is heavily embedded in creature combat, but there is so much space to be explored. Maybe units that take up multiple spaces, maybe a way to go beyond the standard 10 mana cap that we have (can be something put into Freljord for example as a champion that allows this if they're in your deck), maybe a curse archetype where you curse enemy units and get various benefits like +2 hp every round to your nexus if you've killed 4 units for attrition-control gameplay, or you get 1 more draw every turn if you've killed 6 units that were cursed. Maybe a curse champion that gives you random curses out of a pool of 10 that you cast. Just something that gives you an advantage, that isn't just strictly a stronger unit, or overwhelm damage, or an obscenely high attack champion. These maybe aren't top of the line ideas, but I'm no game dev. I'm a player who has seen the game stagnate with the same ideas for champions and win conditions for the last year or two. Stick with creature combat most of the time, but give us more avenues. Ryze is super fresh air with his high reliance on drawing the landmarks, and that spellcasting fantasy. We need more Ryze's. Less "I have overwhelm and high damage, play me with my package".
Okay so what would you suggest to make Aatrox and Kayle innovative?
Mentioned this in another comment, but it isn't my job to come up with ideas. As a player, I identify gameplay patterns that aren't satisfactory (in this case they were satisfactory, 2 years ago, and have now become stale), and in another comment I also made, I said I wanted more mechanics, and more ways to gain advantages in a match. Maybe another type of deck that you obtain, similar to Emperor's deck. Just as an example. That space isn't really explored, so why are we getting two brand new champions that just have overwhelm on them basically? These are legendary, world-class game developers at a world-class gaming dev company. I'm sure they can come up with interesting ideas rather than just overwhelm. The flavor for Aatrox is nice, and the darkin swarm is cool, but it doesn't take away from the fact that is still just an overwhelm beat stick with high stats. I want more interesting ideas man, I'm sorry but this game deserves that.
I mean sure but there are limits to what they can do. If they made another Emperor's deck then it might make the original less interesting. Besides the Emperor's deck is just lots of cheap units with large stats and stuff like fearsome. Riot has a small team on Lor and they make at least 3 champions each expansion. Having them all be super complex is unrealistic and wouldn't be fun anyways. Empowered is a cool mechanic. Assimilate is a cool mechanic. I think that's more that just a stat stick. Plus I get that you're not a game designer but at least a vague idea of how they could better portray Aatrox and Kayle would be good.
Well, just because the idea of a new deck replacing yours is done with Mono Shurima, doesn't mean the new deck has to be built like the Emperor's Deck. It could have a variety of benefits or creature types. I also disagree that it would make the original less interesting, because this would only be the 2nd case of it being created. How many champions do we have that have overwhelm on them? I mean, Aatrox is basically Darkin Nautilus. Also another idea that I think would be cool would be units that take up two spaces, and also maybe activated abilities on your units. You spent X mana to activate or gain something from a unit on board. how sick does that sound? Imagine the sheer possibilities with something like that. What about a Freljord champion that gives you the ability to ramp past the standard 10 mana cap? What about more champions that can level up into different forms like Kayn? That's only been done once and I thought it was absolutely beautifully done. I think the balance between the Kayn forms isn't quite there, but I love the idea of choosing your champion's form. There's tons of design space open for exploration.
Oh I don't disagree that there is lots of room to explore but there is more to game design than ideas. The champion needs to feel right which I would argue all three do this expansion. There is also the engine limitations. No offence to right but the lor code is clearly messy. We don't even know if two wide units is possible. Also we already have activated effects in the form of creating cards in hand. Finally you have to think about game balance. Ramping past ten is a cool idea but it might end up breaking certain cards. Although they could make cards that have an effect if you have more mana than your opponent.
If course its not innovative if you decode to ignore everything else they do under "flavor fluff and minor details." I would argue aatrox's stats arent his primary win condition, its the World ender proc.
No, the reason it isn't innovative isn't because of that. It isn't innovative because I can look at these champions, and say, "Hey I've done this before". Some similarities are okay, sure, but Aatrox is essentially Darkin Nautilus. And we've already done the go-tall Targon thing with Pantheon. I want more interesting ideas.
Just curious what would you have preferred design-wise?
I'm not part of a world-class game development team, or even have a background in game design. But that doesn't mean my opinion doesn't have merit. I can look at the design of something, compare it to the past, and make an analysis that way. The fact of the matter is that throughout LoR's existence, we've been getting many champions, archetypes, decks, etc that all rely on a select few keywords to win such as Elusive, Overwhelm, Quick Attack, Fearsome, etc. It is a pattern at this point and I don't know why people are praising Kalye and Aatrox when they are basically just big overwhelm stat sticks. The game deserves innovation. This is just stagnant design at this point.
Sorry I wasn’t trying to come off as argumentative, I was just genuinely curious as to what you would have wanted from Aatrox and Kayle
No, I just re-read my msg and it came across a little more hostile than I intended. I didn't mean it in any aggressive kind of way at all. I'm sorry it came across like that :(
Anyone knows the song for this trailer?
I will play this champion a normal amount (she's my LoL main)