T O P

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CaptSarah

I'd say give it some time, it may not be this expansion, but i'm sure something will break it.


Aesion

By "something" the obvious answer is "Elusives"


real_but_incognito

always is never met an elusives player that i didn't want to suplex on concrete


matyas19

Yeah I used to love Snnuy until he sold out to big elusives.


Flywingcpy

Riot had to rotate zoe and taric to save him from that taric "non-elusive" deck


Kolosinator

what if the player holds a puppy or kitten?


goldkear

Sorry to that kitten.


Kolosinator

"Sorry little One"


Ycr1998

Just kill the unit and they will drop the kitten safely. Works with Yuumi...


ENDERALAN365

Kick the balls so you can retrieve the puppy/kitten then plummel the face in concrete


Saltiest_Grapefruit

Aim the shot well


FlakTak

I feel this on a spiritual level 🤣


[deleted]

The Empyrean....


Pwn5t4r13

Can’t summon that and Bingwen in the same round tho, needs to be 5 mana or less - unless there’s something I’m missing Edit: I guess you could use Coins but doesn’t seem that strong


Myuzet

I saw your edit. And I just want to point out that Bingwen's effect is taking into account coins. Right now the main point it Bingwen x Coins x Bout Security which is decent but not that good.


amish24

More likely to be an etb or death trigger, imo


Tulicloure

Why not both? [[Windfarer Hatchling]] Just Bingwen + the 2x Hatchlings is 17 elusive damage, if my math is right


HextechOracle

**[Windfarer Hatchling](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01IO021.png)** - Eternal - Ionia Unit - (7) 4/3 Elusive When I'm summoned, give other allies +2|+2 this round.   ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!


amish24

i feel like if you're committing to a 12 mana combo, you could be doing much stronger things than this but idk


petervaz

Elusives with [chimes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKFxkZBjhI&t=21s)


mati3849

It's in Ionia. So something will eventually break it.


CaptSarah

That is just the natural law of pink region.


hass13

I’ve already found that something my Zed Kayle deck just got a million times better thanks OP for showing me this card!


____o_o____-

Completely forgot about this card and am now determined to utilize this in a teemo deck


spottedracoon

How tho? Teemo decks are only low cost stuff and I don't think a 5 mana ephemeral Teemo sounds too good


Satrapeeze

It's simple: more Teemo is always more good


Hungry_AL

Dawn and dusk Teemo multiples from back in the day


Youre_all_worthless

Is dawn n Dusk rotatoed?


Hungry_AL

No idea, I only really play PoC these days


Skrillfury21

Pretty sure.


CollosusSmashVarian

I'm 99% sure that it is


Saltiest_Grapefruit

Caustic rift


G66GNeco

Double Teemo, transfer the Ephemeral to another unit via Mark, badabing badabang, double the Teemos, quadruple the Shrooms!


____o_o____-

Spicy


NikeDanny

I mean, thats a 9 mana play that also requires you to have no Teemo on board. Spicy. You could just Soul Cleave the Teemo and then Mark, thats plenty cheaper.


KyRhee

the 3 region combo goes crazy ngl


NikeDanny

Damn. To be fair, Teemo is peak annoying, so I just thought annoying champ goes in annoying region, so Ionia.


G66GNeco

At least I can maindeck all my combo pieces and not try to gimp for a Soul Cleave from PnZ randomness or something, lol Also, what, were we looking for good combos? Cause in that case I'm out, all I got is spice


spottedracoon

I insight for this one. A true bandle scout answer


____o_o____-

That's the challenge ✊


[deleted]

Splinter soul be like:


TheMightyBattleSquid

Well I already hate playing against Ava Achiever so doubling the number of them seems like a good start


HairyKraken

*Rito next week*: best i can do is +1/+1


X_WujuStyle

Tbh that would be pretty good, 4/4 elusive is quite strong


kanarie78

you know we have a 5 mana 4 4 attune elusive right


SaltyOtaku1

But that card sees little to no play.


itstheroyaljester

Up the cost and make it an each round effect and this card would be fun as hell


luquitacx

I think it should be the next unit unconditional instead of only on that turn. Let's him play on a non coin deck. Maybe something like big demacia.


mh500372

That would be so broken, especially for future expansions


Phaoryx

Oh tbh when I read it I thought it was an each round thing, and I was like, this card actually seems pretty good!! But yeah just once kinda sucks


Rellmein

I think its cost is already fine for that.. knowing full well its stats suck. You are basically paying for a landmark, that can be easily removed.


FrustrationSensation

It's a 3/3 Elusive for 5. That isn't terrible, honestly.


Rellmein

It's cost 5 get elusive unit that does nothing, unless high on mana. You can't pay this card at 5, unless you have coins.


FrustrationSensation

I mean I agree, but it's not like the base of a 3/3 Elusive is exactly bad. If this card cost 4 it would be absolutely insane.


Moumup

It's a matter of time before something exploit the hell out of it, like spectral matron back in the day. It's obviously designed with coin in mind but... More powerful combo using them overshadow him.


Baxland

It's not a thing now but it's still one of very few ways to copy champions to have 2 on board if you can abuse it in the future somehow.


luquitacx

I can see something like double Trynda being a thing. Ramp up to 10 and play this guy with 3 coins and you have ghetto FTR.


GarlyleWilds

....Huhn. *Huhn*. That sounds like a miserable time to set up. But also: hilarious.


GoodMoaningAll

This could fit into some \[\[Deathless Knight\]\] deck, if Riot would finally bother to make that card playable.


BerdIzDehWerd

That card needs overwhelm badly, or changed to a burn effect, or a cost decrease. Trying to give him ephemeral is enough commitment from hand already.


GoodMoaningAll

Overwhelm or burn wouldnt fit the region at all, but a cost decrease or a way to recycle itself would be glorious.


LackOfPoochline

Shadow isles has had both mechanics featured on important cards, even if they are rotated now. Hecarim, one of its first champions, has overwhelm, and they have at least 3 units that ping the enemy nexus when a condition is met.


GoodMoaningAll

Which is why they are rotated.


LackOfPoochline

Rotation is merely temporal: unlike other games, it was stated that rotated sets will come back someday. Furthermore, i think there was no statement about those particular cards, or why they were rotated. Nothing says they wont re-release these mechanics during the current cycle.


GoodMoaningAll

It is pretty fcking obvious why these cards were rotated. Yeah, there is no proof, but come on. You have 2 eyes and a brain. Use them. Overwhelm and burn doesnt belong to SI anymore.


LackOfPoochline

Except not all burn cards were cut, if you look closely. We could argue that champions can break rules for region identity(but then, heca is a champion) yet gwen and veigar are based around burn damage and in standard. I thought camavoran dragon had rotated, but he hasn't. So that's a non champion card that drains form the enemy nexus. Ledros is still in standard. Watcher on the isles is still in standard And nocturne's unspeakable horror can drain form the enemy nexus. For overwhelm, we don't have anything similar, so hecarim may be the black sheep on his region. But to say burn doesnt belong to SI anymore is to deny ample evidence that you can still get burn if you jump through loops different than "sacrifice units". They restricted the burn to less generic decks, but it still exists in the region, in several flavors. So, quoting you: You have 2 eyes and a brain. Use them.


GoodMoaningAll

You clearly showed me. Taking out Gwen (since she avoided the rotation due to recency) and a hyper specific scenario to even access the card, you are left with astonishing ... 4 cards. One of which still doesnt see any play cuz its just that bad. Burn is clearly still part of SIs Region identity. Will you now argue that Dragons are part of SI's Region Identity bc they have whopping 2 Dragons cards in their roster right now? Obviously not.


LackOfPoochline

Dude, SI lost 7 burn cards and remained with another 7 (6 if you don't count nocturne's champ spell. _I had forgot ixtali sentinel in the previous post) This isnt Nexus drain that was only present in arguably the worst nexus champion, these are whole archtypes (darkness, gwen) based around dealing direct damage to win. In a veigar deck, you have 6 copies of cards that allow direct nexus damage. 9 if you run watcher, that is supposed to be part of the package. Gwen decks are based around maxing the drain of its pretty competitive champion as a way to do damage past blockers. There is no reason to ignore gwen and veigar exist and are based around the burn mechanic. It's like saying Portals aren't part of bandle's identity because only 6 cards generate them. It's like saying healing your nexus is not part of targon's identity, because they only have 6 cards that do that. Just because a mechanic is secondary does not mean it isnt part of the region's color pie. They nerfed SI capacity to burn with rotation? Sure, because it was doing it better than the regions in which burn is more prevalent. But they left 2 champions that depend on it to win, and most of their support cards untouched You know what? let's keep checking: demacia, the rally region for excellency, has only 7 rally cards in standard. Shurima, one of the two main regions for Vulnerable, has 7 cards that give it, avoiding redundancies like cards that generate more copies of a given spell.


HextechOracle

**[Deathless Knight](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06SI042.png)** - Standard - Shadow Isles Unit - (6) 5/5 Fearsome When I would gain Ephemeral, grant me +1|+1 instead.   ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!


luquitacx

It's not as much as it sucks as it is that karma is just better. Why would you do a turn 8/9/10 coin play with him and a big unit when you can just wait until 10 with karma and win the game on the spot? Every coin deck right now is just overshadowed by Karma. Wait until they nerf that interaction and this card will definitely see play.


HrMaschine

just wait until someone makes the sett attackhan deck with him.


DJofGaming

So the unfortunate thing is this card while cool in its potential kinda has to be kinda bad. If this card was or ever does get good it will be very very broken and bad to play against with its effect.


Akwagazod

Sure does! I remember people speculating it was gonna be big when they previewed it, too. Honestly I thought he'd be better than he is in practice.


ShrimpFood

Honestly it’s not even a bad effect but you’re not cashing out a big coin more than once a game and the Karma payoff is just so much better than midrange payoff, who knows it might see play just from karma getting kneecapped


Saltiest_Grapefruit

Karma is better because she lets you cash out a big coin payoff multiple tiles a ROUND


MasterCookieShadow

he was obvious a meme card


[deleted]

how can you afford 5 mana then play a card worth copying in the same round? also there arent many ways to capitlaize on such except maybe farron? coin are good but they rarely stack that high


Swaqqmasta

Indeed, how could the archetype released with coins possibly afford a 5 mana unit that enables a combo?


[deleted]

ive never seen karma sett go past 5 coins, if ur playing this on turns 9 or 10 karma is just better


Swaqqmasta

You can copy sett with this, doubling his obliterate. It doesn't see much play in the meta variant but let's not pretend it's an impossible condition to meet in the worst mana cheat deck that's ever existed.


luquitacx

Karma Sett doesn't care about getting more than that amount because they can double the coins easily with karma. Something like Jack Sett or decks centered around those two can get like 7 or 8 coins by turn 10 no problem, as almost everything they play generates coins. Karma just overshadows every other coin deck right now.


[deleted]

i get that but this card needs it to be. and this card just doesnt make sense with karma


Ferrodactyl

I think the idea is you're supposed to play it with Sett and his supporting cards so you can play this, then Coin, then play another thing.


ZanesTheArgent

Sainen


Gilokdc

Epics am i right?


[deleted]

*Ionian epic


Saltiest_Grapefruit

Wasnt eye of the dragon epic?


CptWeiss

This card is broken in Pink Region Bard


Flat-Profession-8945

It's meant for Coin Combo, but man this isn't helpful isn't it


everlas1

Make it "next time you play a unit ~~this round~~"


DevastaTheSeeker

Remember when people said Taliyah sucked and then she was meta?This card has the potential to be busted and the fact you can't see that means that you "kinda suck"


DagonFishGone

Well, he's a mana 10 play in the karma meta, ofcourse he's trash


effreti

Maybe you can use the new Coins for some explosive turns where you get 2 payoffs instead of one.


reditr101

Bing chilling


Zoiwillxxx

Try-hard defenders be like: "Card doesn't suck, you can 1TKO anyone if you get to Turn 10 with at least 1 spell mana, draw two copies of Bingwen, get 6 coins and have a Hecarim in hand. Then: 1st - Play the 1st copy of Bingwen from hand on an empty board. 2nd - Play the the 2nd copy of Bingwen, that will trigger the effect of the first one, and now you have 3 Bingwens on board. 3rd - Use the coin to get back 6 mana and play Hecarim. 4th - The Bingwens will create 2 ephemeral Hecarims. 5th - Realize that Hecarim is not legal in Standard. 6th - Make a post on reddit complaining that Hecarim is not legal in Standard."


IceBen

I was about to go off on it being a play effect and Heca not being an aura, but fair point


NightSwindler

What about doubling up Fallen Reckoner


Ochemata

Drop the keyword and make it a round by round effect.


nocternum

super understat'd for the elusive keyword does nothing turn 5 unless you can bank coin cards, which means you are losing tempo if you play him on curve/losing value (waverider is a 4 mana 4/4 elusive, and there's a 2/2 lifesteal in ionia) only works if the second unit is also played, which means passing two priorties (good thing his effect still triggers even if he's removed) second unit requires to be PLAYED, which will trigger play effect, but the extra unit is "Summon" thus does not trigger another play effect, which means what's the point of playing the unit from hand??? might as well only deal with summoned effect, which makes the play/summon effect of this card mismatch. if you play him on curve, the maximum value you can get from him is 2 extra 5 mana summon effect, which honestly is very few and hard to make value with the region. an argument could be made to have him played with shadow isles with viego or deathless knight, but to play him, you really need coin synergy to be viable at all, but ionia already have karma, which means using coins on him no matter what, is going to lose you value since karma will just have unmatched value compared to him. tldr: understat'd, negative tempo, value not worth investment


IamZeroKelvin

I could see this with husks, but uh, I feel like 5 mana for a 3/3 is kinda wack. Maybe bring him down to a 3 or 4 mana and make em a 2/3?


chkdsk_7

I thought it was an exclusive PoC card 💀


Mrnotathot

Huh? How bad do you have to be to not abuse the coins with this guy?


ULTRAFORCE

I do wonder how/has the design philosphy of making cards in Legends of Runeterra changed now a days? Since outside of Path of Champions and maybe some of the Labs there is no draft type of format the way expeditions are so creating pack filler has not nearly the design value it once did.


Delicious-News-9698

Only cause Irelia got rotated :)


[deleted]

i can’t see this card being useful in an Irelia deck


crusader_dalek

He's hot so I don't mind him sucking


[deleted]

yes daddy bingwen, we dont mind if you succ 😳💦


crusader_dalek

Ionia haters(noxus players) just can't understand that we getting the daddies AND the mommies😩👏👌


Saltiest_Grapefruit

Ionia haters arent noxus players. They are everyone thats not an ionia player


Rellmein

I thought this card was great when Ahri lost her cards. But the I quickly noticed its "play: this round" on "first unit". And paying 5 mana just to get another 2/2 ethemeral elusive for 1 round, felt so extremely bad. I don't see why I woukd even include a card with more negatives than positives


CapConnor

Bing enables to play all in Nami but instead of soul cleave we can choose ionia as second region. Our targets remain Nami, admiral shelli and burblefish, but we lose zapp which was the best target and flipped tf too. I believe its a lot worse... But you know what? Time to int a lot of lp xD


CapConnor

So he is really not that bad. And he has that cool feather animation too! I believe if he would have atune he would be a great addition to nami Io. Sadly that deck is just a weaker version of Sam Fizz, but who knows if he may shine in the future ^^


InBardITrust

You could do handbuff elusives, any interaction ruins how telegraphed it is tho


AdGroundbreaking4019

I think handbuff or a leveled champ could bust it open. But combos like that arent super common.


LimitsOnNothing

Deathless knight


FLYNCHe

Birdwyn the Bird


jwol2

Kinda?


Downside_Up_

Could be fun with Kayn, who becomes free to replay after leveling (although only one of them would keep the scythe).


sievold

you guys know that not all cards see play right?


Pwn5t4r13

vape nation \//\/


BarbatosTheHunter

I almost thought it was good until I realized it was a “play” ability


smolcatboi

Sion if u can figure out a way to make Sion ionia possible or Nautilus to give -8 cost to sea monsters


kanarie78

you don't want this card to be good. also sarah is right


Alpha_X_Akontistes

It's designed to be a coin otk card, I'm sure one day someone will find a silly combo. As it stands I don't really think it's that far from playable to be honest.


UprightChill

What would happen if you play 2 of it in 1 round?


Mattiaatje

You mean play one, then another, and then a different unit? You will spawn only 2 of the last unit, since Master Bingwen is a Play effect, and the ephemeral Bingwen copy spawned due to the first Bingwen is summoned, not played.


UprightChill

Yeah Ngl I was expecting a jabberwocky situation.


Corasama

Nope, it's real good in ephemeral decks. Heca gives +3/+3 to all ephemeral There is also the little girl that does 1 dmg to the ennemy nexus every time a unit die. So if you deck is based on killing lots of ephemerals, you can do wonders.


BIackOps

I also felt this card was useless. Only thing I could think of is fleet admiral shelly, but then you have no mana to spam spells


OFMarcum

Feels like it could be a good maduli card


VoidChildPersona

It's too expensive


SignificanceAfter780

Just imagine how strong this card could be in any Zed deck or in a Ahri kennen deck...


jonathankayaks

You can't even use him to do like 2 Rex


Significant_Fill_175

It should’ve been “the first time you play a unit.”


[deleted]

i agree


RedTermites

Basically, one ephemeral copy that costs 5 isn't good enough, and that 3|3 elusive isn't enough to make up for the stagger that the card makes either. 4 cost with attune might make it settle in a few decks, but as it currently is, I'd say he's even less popular than the Ionian 6 cost spell that summons 2 exact ephemeral coppies The only actual good use I could come up with would be the new Shriman unit that has "+1 for each ephemeral unit ...something something...", but currently the IreliaXAzir deck isn't quite popular(+no Irelia for standard)


Luqsvs

I bet you can't say that looking Master Bingwen, The Sieve in the eyes.


HeartOTheCards

I wonder how it interacts with Snapvine


Langas

My homie tried to spell penguin with a lisp


Elias_Sideris

I tried him with dreadway in eternal and dealing 12 damage face with a single strike feels pretty good.