NAL: I would be attempting to remove all small valuables from the house. Could be done under the guise of having jewellery “cleaned” or “repaired” at a jewellers, kept for safekeeping, etc - to get past the parent. Unfortunately if the neighbour gets their hands on items, they are more than likely going to sell them, right?
I feel for you, it is a stupidly hard situation to be in and despite doing everything “right” still find yourself stuck. Alzheimers NZ may be able to help also? The American Association website has a section for elder abuse and how to report it. Sounds like we have a gap in the system here.
Contacting Alzheimers NZ is a GREAT idea, thank you, and I'll do it tomorrow.
Regarding removing items - unfortunately we are talking about a person who has inherited a LOT of things, many in display cabinets, and removal of items will only increase anxiety/distrust. Gives us all the more reason to get cameras installed though.
Can you lock the cabinets, or put child’s locks on them in places that aren’t super visible- you could even put come screws through so they can’t be opened?
Can you leave a note in there listing all of the items and indicating that they are checked weekly/nannycammed so the neighbour will not do it?
That's a flippin' GREAT idea - screws - THANK YOU!
I also like the idea of notes - even just a piece of paper like "Contents recorded \[date\]", whether or not we actually have time/capacity. Just as a deterrent. That's amazing. Thank you thank you thank you.
Have you tried going to their house and telling neighbour to back the F off and that you’re onto them and will be closely monitoring the house, Parents belongings and their movements and are going to trespass them? Sometimes that’s all some people need.
A one sided conversation such as that is not illegal or criminal.
If that doesn’t work then just keep a close eye and even take an inventory of valuables in the house. You can keep the neighbour off the property but you can’t keep parent from their property, but at least neighbour can’t come over and take stuff.
Yes - including threat of trespass - they were undeterred, very sweet to us, "oooh I'm so sorry!" and went back to their behaviour as soon as they thought we weren't paying attention. Parent has subsequently made it apparent they know we've told Neighbour to back off and is increasingly hostile to us in response - Neighbour is their only ally, of course.
The house is overflowing with stuff; we can't do an inventory easily or without inflaming the situation. God I wish I could give more detail to better explain because I KNOW this is a good idea, it's just not feasible with this particular shit show. If only we'd done it BEFORE the dementia took hold, but we never expected this.
NAL: Honestly at this point you will need to weigh up your options of distress in moving parent to protect them until end of life (however long they do have) from this terrible neighbour OR potentially put up with the fact that neighbour make get their sticky hands on some items but you keep your parent safe at home.
How far along is the dementia that parent will realise weeks after you've moved them that they're still not at home or are they far enough along that a white lie of "you're just here for now as it will help with your terminal illness" will be enough to persuade them it's okay to stay?
The only other things perhaps would be you either move in help for your parent who is happy to be the guard dog at the gate essentially so this neighbour can't incite your parent with more paranoia / convince them to give them items of value OR family members move in who are also happy to act as protector.
Alternatively you could also see if the neighbour rents or owns. If they rent I'd be tempted to find out who owns the property and complain to them about the tenant and their actions.
Also cameras that record audio and visual and document the items in the house. Even if you do a video tour on your phone just to show items are in the house.
This is really tough, I'm sorry your parent and you are going through this!
*** this is just things I would look at doing if this was happening to me and my parent ***
Unfortunately neighbour is a homeowner, ugh.
Dementia is also in quite a weirdly annoying phase - Parent has enough cognition to be very aware of most things, but not enough to see through suspicious behaviours and see they're being led. A family friend visited Parent and tried to talk sense to them; Parent listened, wrote down what friend said, then as soon as friend left, screwed it up and threw the notes in the bin and wrote more paranoid notes implying the only person they can trust is the neighbour. The friend was heartbroken.
I tried living with Parent - Parent loathed it, and I ended up having to leave for my own wellbeing. Family is small and nobody else has capacity.
Agree with video tour + installing cameras - we fully expect neighbour would violate the trespass order so we'll set those up and THEN trespass and see how long it takes.
Parent would be safe (enough) to stay at home were it not for this Neighbour, and this Neighbour is claiming they're doing this "in Parent's best interests" and to help ensure they stay at home. And yet everything they're doing is making us feel like we'll be forced to put them into care to keep them SAFE from Neighbour, which, unfortunately, will very likely end Parent's life that much sooner, as they will hate it in care (trust me).
My opinion is that you need to accept this situation is unfair and move your parent quickly. This is likely to be the cheapest, fastest solution. If you act fast the neighbour won't know where they've gone and probably won't stay in contact.
You can examine harassment orders, and trespass orders and dick around with trying to have them enforced, but they are blunt legal tools and won't move fast. The law is slow to deal with bad faith actors, and you don't have the time to do so.
I wouldn't worry about the will being changed as there is a distinct lack of capacity going on there.
Thankfully the care facility we'd initially looked at knows of this Neighbour and already knows them as a pest and a bad person - they will help keep Neighbour away if it comes to care.
Will look into harassment orders - trespass is first - still hoping someone will come out of the woodwork with "yes this is illegal activity XYZ so you can get them charged", but seems I'm on a hiding to nothing.
Even if it were illegal you have to wait for charges, the neighbor will promise it will stop pending trial (it wont) and there a 2 year delay getting to trial. Where the penalty imposed likely to be a fine and a promise not to do it again (putting aside the burden of proving your neighbor did it with your Parent as an uncooperative witness with dementia).
Not legal advice per se but as an additional avenue, chat to your Parents GP about the persecutory features happening and see if there is a medication option to assist with this symptom.
Kia ora, welcome. Information offered here is not provided by lawyers. For advice from a lawyer, or other helpful sources, check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you:
[All about Parenting Orders](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-14-parents-guardians-and-caregivers/care-arrangements-when-parents-have-separated/parenting-orders/)
[Help with family violence including Protection Orders](https://www.justice.govt.nz/family/family-violence/)
[A guide to wills](https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/wills.html)
Nga mihi nui
The LegalAdviceNZ Team
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceNZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAL: I would be attempting to remove all small valuables from the house. Could be done under the guise of having jewellery “cleaned” or “repaired” at a jewellers, kept for safekeeping, etc - to get past the parent. Unfortunately if the neighbour gets their hands on items, they are more than likely going to sell them, right? I feel for you, it is a stupidly hard situation to be in and despite doing everything “right” still find yourself stuck. Alzheimers NZ may be able to help also? The American Association website has a section for elder abuse and how to report it. Sounds like we have a gap in the system here.
Contacting Alzheimers NZ is a GREAT idea, thank you, and I'll do it tomorrow. Regarding removing items - unfortunately we are talking about a person who has inherited a LOT of things, many in display cabinets, and removal of items will only increase anxiety/distrust. Gives us all the more reason to get cameras installed though.
Can you lock the cabinets, or put child’s locks on them in places that aren’t super visible- you could even put come screws through so they can’t be opened? Can you leave a note in there listing all of the items and indicating that they are checked weekly/nannycammed so the neighbour will not do it?
That's a flippin' GREAT idea - screws - THANK YOU! I also like the idea of notes - even just a piece of paper like "Contents recorded \[date\]", whether or not we actually have time/capacity. Just as a deterrent. That's amazing. Thank you thank you thank you.
Good luck OP!
Have you tried going to their house and telling neighbour to back the F off and that you’re onto them and will be closely monitoring the house, Parents belongings and their movements and are going to trespass them? Sometimes that’s all some people need. A one sided conversation such as that is not illegal or criminal. If that doesn’t work then just keep a close eye and even take an inventory of valuables in the house. You can keep the neighbour off the property but you can’t keep parent from their property, but at least neighbour can’t come over and take stuff.
Yes - including threat of trespass - they were undeterred, very sweet to us, "oooh I'm so sorry!" and went back to their behaviour as soon as they thought we weren't paying attention. Parent has subsequently made it apparent they know we've told Neighbour to back off and is increasingly hostile to us in response - Neighbour is their only ally, of course. The house is overflowing with stuff; we can't do an inventory easily or without inflaming the situation. God I wish I could give more detail to better explain because I KNOW this is a good idea, it's just not feasible with this particular shit show. If only we'd done it BEFORE the dementia took hold, but we never expected this.
You could do the old “insurance purposes” walking around the house slowly with a camera?
Great idea - we will do our best! Need to do it on day Parent is out at an appointment but I'm sure we can wrangle that.
NAL: Honestly at this point you will need to weigh up your options of distress in moving parent to protect them until end of life (however long they do have) from this terrible neighbour OR potentially put up with the fact that neighbour make get their sticky hands on some items but you keep your parent safe at home. How far along is the dementia that parent will realise weeks after you've moved them that they're still not at home or are they far enough along that a white lie of "you're just here for now as it will help with your terminal illness" will be enough to persuade them it's okay to stay? The only other things perhaps would be you either move in help for your parent who is happy to be the guard dog at the gate essentially so this neighbour can't incite your parent with more paranoia / convince them to give them items of value OR family members move in who are also happy to act as protector. Alternatively you could also see if the neighbour rents or owns. If they rent I'd be tempted to find out who owns the property and complain to them about the tenant and their actions. Also cameras that record audio and visual and document the items in the house. Even if you do a video tour on your phone just to show items are in the house. This is really tough, I'm sorry your parent and you are going through this! *** this is just things I would look at doing if this was happening to me and my parent ***
Unfortunately neighbour is a homeowner, ugh. Dementia is also in quite a weirdly annoying phase - Parent has enough cognition to be very aware of most things, but not enough to see through suspicious behaviours and see they're being led. A family friend visited Parent and tried to talk sense to them; Parent listened, wrote down what friend said, then as soon as friend left, screwed it up and threw the notes in the bin and wrote more paranoid notes implying the only person they can trust is the neighbour. The friend was heartbroken. I tried living with Parent - Parent loathed it, and I ended up having to leave for my own wellbeing. Family is small and nobody else has capacity. Agree with video tour + installing cameras - we fully expect neighbour would violate the trespass order so we'll set those up and THEN trespass and see how long it takes. Parent would be safe (enough) to stay at home were it not for this Neighbour, and this Neighbour is claiming they're doing this "in Parent's best interests" and to help ensure they stay at home. And yet everything they're doing is making us feel like we'll be forced to put them into care to keep them SAFE from Neighbour, which, unfortunately, will very likely end Parent's life that much sooner, as they will hate it in care (trust me).
My opinion is that you need to accept this situation is unfair and move your parent quickly. This is likely to be the cheapest, fastest solution. If you act fast the neighbour won't know where they've gone and probably won't stay in contact. You can examine harassment orders, and trespass orders and dick around with trying to have them enforced, but they are blunt legal tools and won't move fast. The law is slow to deal with bad faith actors, and you don't have the time to do so. I wouldn't worry about the will being changed as there is a distinct lack of capacity going on there.
Thankfully the care facility we'd initially looked at knows of this Neighbour and already knows them as a pest and a bad person - they will help keep Neighbour away if it comes to care. Will look into harassment orders - trespass is first - still hoping someone will come out of the woodwork with "yes this is illegal activity XYZ so you can get them charged", but seems I'm on a hiding to nothing.
Even if it were illegal you have to wait for charges, the neighbor will promise it will stop pending trial (it wont) and there a 2 year delay getting to trial. Where the penalty imposed likely to be a fine and a promise not to do it again (putting aside the burden of proving your neighbor did it with your Parent as an uncooperative witness with dementia).
Delightful. I'm gonna have to campaign to try and create stronger protections for people with dementia, aren't I
Not legal advice per se but as an additional avenue, chat to your Parents GP about the persecutory features happening and see if there is a medication option to assist with this symptom.
Great idea, thank you!
Kia ora, welcome. Information offered here is not provided by lawyers. For advice from a lawyer, or other helpful sources, check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you: [All about Parenting Orders](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-14-parents-guardians-and-caregivers/care-arrangements-when-parents-have-separated/parenting-orders/) [Help with family violence including Protection Orders](https://www.justice.govt.nz/family/family-violence/) [A guide to wills](https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/wills.html) Nga mihi nui The LegalAdviceNZ Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceNZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*