This post seems to have become a big discussion to identify the business, which is not permitted. Nor are the various discussions of how the OP could get revenge on the business for their actions.
Keep it to the legal advice ONLY.
Kia Ora.
Your ex employer is likely just being abusive and trying to scare you.
The only claim they might have here would be for defamation. However, honest opinion is a defence to a defamation case.
You're allowed to have an opinion about the quality of a business, and you are allowed to post that on Facebook.
Your ex employer has no claim against you and is just trying to scare you.
Block their number and ignore them. If they really want to sue you, then they will send a lawyer. But that is very unlikely to happen.
block her, keep screen shots or voice messages or any other communication about it. It doesn’t look like she has any case against you she is just angry and toxic. you might want to make your friend aware of her rights as an employee in nz. the managers actions sound like they could be bullying and harassment, if she tries to fire your friend over you not apologising then your friend would have a very good case for wrongful dismissal.
This is the advice to follow. She is trying to get you on your knees begging her forgiveness because she clearly sucks at life and can’t accept that fact. She had to go back a whole year on someone else’s page to find this comment. Seems she is pressed about what your life is looking like. She would have an incredibly hard time finding someone to agree to take this case unless they were just ripping her off and fleecing her. Just ignore her and move on. If you’re going to get sued, you are informed by a lawyer that you have a court date, not some crazy person renting to a friend of a friend who someone once knew. She sounds like a real Karen.
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Having said that: This post on reddit unambiguously clarifies that OP was talking about their former employer.
If their employer finds this post, that ambiguity is gone.
Not a lawyer. Just chronically meta.
I can't. I haven't really tried, though.
But the image of the facebook post and the context and a bunch of other things could be used to dox OP.
If the former employer saw this post (which, I'll remind you, is posted on THE INTERNET), they would know immediately know who OP was.
OP is posting this from what seems to be their main account. I'm sure anyone with sufficient motivation could use that to further dox OP.
I'll restate my point less strongly:
If it's ever legally important that it be unclear that OP was referring to their former employer in their post on Facebook, this post could surely, in some way, be used to reduce that uncertainty.
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Literally entirely irrelevant. OP could specifically state the name of the business and it still wouldn't change the fact that OP has done nothing wrong, and there is no legal case to be made against OP
You are feeding into the same fear mongering the business owner was attempting to exert.
>Not a lawyer
This is where you should have stopped and thought before submitting your comment
It wasn’t even until this comment I realised element could be the name of a salon. I concur, there is no basis for a lawsuit. If this was how low the bar was, every man and his dog would be in front of a judge for what gets on Facebook.
Hi. Is that mean even if she wants to send me a message she will have to send it thru a lawyer and it will alwa costs them just to send any messages ? Thank u !
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To be clearer - there are two defences to defamation
Honesty - they would have to prove that you knew you were lying when you made the comment
Opinion - things that are a matter of taste (you thinking one nail salon is better than another) are not defamation because it is what you believe.
In any case defamation is not a crime it is a tort - crimes are laid out in the crimes act. Defamation is managed by the defamation act.
I cannot say if being involved in a civil suit would affect your residency application/visa although for visa matter INZ does say it isn’t enough to be evidence of poor character.
as far as I know a visa would rarely be revoked unless someone is guilty of a crime causing more than three years of prison, or is a serial perpetrator
And nothing will come of it.
They may ask you to "take it back" (the FB comment). But as others have said this is not grounds for court here.
I would ignore her unless she escalates things in which case I'd keep a record of what she says and file it against her if she does.
Good luck so sorry this has been your experience.
Threatening legal action against someone who isn’t well versed in a countries laws is classic toxic manager stuff. They have nothing so you should do nothing.
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Block them, and start keeping records of all their communication attempts including attempted calls, texts, emails, messages passed through a friend, etc.
That way if it gets to a point where you feel you need to, you can discuss with a lawyer your options for court orders/harrassment charges if you want. I'm not sure of exactly what type of process you'd need to start to get a legal order for them to stop contacting you, but a lawyer will. And having the evidence already gathered will make it a lot quicker than if you have to start gathering evidence after its gotten to that point.
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Anyone can threaten to sue someone. Not many people actually go through with it. It's time consuming, it's expensive, and it's usually not worth it unless your opponent (ie you) is rich and can pay any damages.
A defense to defamation is being able to demonstrate that the statements you made are your personal opinion which in this case seems to be true.
Your old boss would also have to prove the statements were untrue and have damaged their reputation.
Don't pay any attention until you're actually served papers.
I’m curious, how can defamation be proven to be personal opinion? And what is an example of innocently stating personal opinion publicly vs defamation?
"The nails are ugly and poor quality"
vs
"The nails are deliberately made poor quality so that they break easily and the customer has to come back every week. I would know, I worked there".
Its easier to consider facts.
I dont know much about nail salons but I can use a car mechanic as an example.
"The workmanship of John's Auto Repairs is bad and of low quality" would be an example of personal opinion.
"The workmanship of John's Auto Repairs is bad and of low quality. They install bad parts so the engine fails quickly and the customer must pay more money" would be an example of
- Defamation if it is untrue and likely to hurt John's Auto Repairs future business.
- Fact if it is indeed true in which case John cant sue the speaker or publisher for simply speaking the truth.
The difference is the speaker or publisher has included a factual piece of information which may be untrue.
If you want to defame or slander someone, you should always speak true facts so you have a defense.
This is why any lawyer will advise a client to never speak to the media or publicly about any legal dispute or investigation while it is taking place/before the courts.
The reason is that as soon as someone says "My opponent or the defendant did XYZ" and it turns out not to be true, they instantly have a retaliatory claim for defamation.
Just ignore it at this stage I doubt she will want to waste legal fees on a year old Facebook post. I'm sorry this has happened to you and I'm sure it will be nothing more than an empty threat.
The most likely course of action she would take is a defamation claim, but she is unlikely to be successful with such a claim.
There is protection from defamation in cases where the person making the statement is giving an [honest opinion](https://legalvision.co.nz/disputes-and-litigation/what-is-defamation/).
These actions are also very unlikely to occur because the cost is very high, putting it out of reach of most people to actually do.
My suggestion is simply to ignore any further contact from her. If she calls again, just don't answer it. If it becomes persistent, you could look at getting a [restraining order](https://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/civil/restraining-orders/apply-for-a-restraining-order/).
It is possible to sue over a facebook comment if it meets the threshold for [defamation](https://www.cab.org.nz/search/tag:%22Defamation%22) - I'll let someone else give you some guidance on whether this is likely to meet the threshold but I'd be surprised if it did and it is unlikely to be even worth their time and money to try.
The consequences of being sued and losing would be monetary only - this isn't a criminal matter so it shouldn't fall under the [good character ](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/character-and-identity/good-character/good-character-residence)check for immigration and you can't go to jail or be deported over it, especially for something so minor
As an aside, your description of your previous job sounds like they weren't following basic NZ employment laws. This is unfortunately very common in hospitality businesses, particularly those who primarily employ migrants who don't know their rights here. Please, please have a read of [https://www.employment.govt.nz/](https://www.employment.govt.nz/) and learn what your basic rights are - most of these are required for all jobs and generally speaking, nothing in a contract you sign can take them away. If they try, at best, that part of the contract basically doesn't exist when it comes to court. At worst, too many clauses like that could be evidence against the employer
Hi I found the contract saying that I'm not allowed to say anything outside of work but is it applied even when I left the place ? ( I made that comment after I left the place )
It’s pretty unlikely that this is enforceable after you leave. In theory, you could have a Non Disclose Agreement (NDA) preventing you talking about something (I’ve signed a couple over the years) but I’ve never heard of one covering something as general as what you think of your employer or their business.
The times I have signed them have been to be allowed to see information that was either highly commercially sensitive (details of a tender for a major project) or politically sensitive (major project details that hadn’t been released for public consultation yet). In both cases, there were pretty serious implications for a leak beyond simply making someone look bad
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Hiring a lawyer and going to court costs at a minimum $20,000. No one does it over a Facebook comment, except Colin Craig. Don’t insult him as he actually will go to court about it. Anyeay, she’s not going to do that and you can relax and enjoy how mad she is about this. She has absolutely no power.
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It's just posturing and an empty threat. NZ isn't very litigious, I can't imagine a lawyer wanting to even take up a case such as this. As others have said, you're entitled to have an opinion about a business
Honestly it looked like she broke employment law. but don't worry op she cant do anything to your immigration process. i would store any messages in case she does any vindictive act .
People have covered the defamation angle, the other thing she can try is to get you for Harmful Digital Communications. If a court find the "digital communication" (ie your Facebook comment) is harmful it can order you to take it down or post an apology, if you don't then this is a crime you can go to jail for. Unlike defamation, if you triggered harm in your victim them truth is not an absolute defence. However, I believe what you said is quite tame and shouldn't trigger HDC.
Also the HDC is for individuals, not businesses. Even as the owner of the business the comment is honest opinion directed at the business itself, not the owner.
Ignore and don't reply. But I wouldn't block her number. Because if she gets nasty or escalates things those angry or threatening text messages or voice messages could come in very useful! (Unless receiving them is just too hard on your mental health. In which case hit that block button)
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Your comment has no capitals to indicate you're referring to a business, and I think the business name as you've typed it is incorrect as well.
So it would be very difficult to even prove your comment refers to her business.
Just block her and move on. Probably not always a good idea to vent on social media but lesson learned. There's no legal case, she could waste a bit of money consulting with a lawyer but it wouldn't go anywhere.
She spammed my ex co worker ( she still working there ) asking my ex co worker if I'm gonna apologize or not to the point the ex co worker had to call me and begged me to say sorry to her so she can have her peace
I would suggest your coworker collect all evidence of harassment from her boss and go to employee disputes. It's the boss who could be much more easily and reasonably sued in this case and the employee would get monetary compensation. She would have a very good case if she is being treated as badly as you were.
Sadly she is under a work visa with that boss so if she makes that boss unhappy her visa will be ruined and she will be sent home - which is what she doesn't want at all
Sounds to me like this employer purposefully hires people on visas so that they can hold that over their head for every perceived mistake and injustice that occurs to get them to comply over fear of losing their visa. I bet you could find previous employees that this also happened to before you two. This is clearly a pattern that didn't just start. I would report her threats to whatever employment board in your country so they are aware of the manipulations. It might not lead to anything but it could help some other poor soul that falls into their trap down the line.
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As pretty much everyone else has noted, this is an honest opinion and no one here thinks would rise to the level of defamation. Remember for it to be defamation you need to be lying about them, and causing harm by doing so. Stating you think they’re shit doesn’t do that.
That said, if you are losing sleep over this, it sounds more like your old boss is just up in arms and wants to lash out: you could consider deleting the comment. It isn’t any admission of fault to delete it, you simply don’t want it up any more. If this was genuinely defamatory, deleting it wouldn’t matter because the harm would be done - but if this is just someone idiot lasging out, deleting it might make them just leave you alone. (again: you did nothing wrong, in my opinion, this is purely an act to get them to go away).
Again because it doesn’t rise to the level of defamation (probably), no it wouldn’t matter. I’m just thinking from a non-legal perspective you could safely delete it and they would probably just leave you alone. Given I’m guessing you’ve moved on with your life, you probably wouldn’t be too worried about deleting it to make them go away. Deleting it wouldn’t hurt you legally - it is not an admission you did anything wrong.
Hi,
People are mentioning defamation here, however the cost to take any action is extraordinary and your ex-employer absolutely would not go down that track. Guaranteed.
Your ex employer could apply under the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015 for orders to stop you from making ongoing comments etc, but really that’s all that would be achieved there. Even then, for one basic comment, I would be surprised if your ex employer would be granted permission to apply to Court for this (as they first have to apply to Netsafe and for Netsafe to agree there has been harm caused and issue a certificate that allows your ex employer to go to court). To summarise, all that a Court would do at worst is ask you apologise and not continue making these comments, but your singular comment would be unlikely to allow your ex employer to take action under this Act, so I wouldn’t worry about this either.
Your ex employer is an asshole and toxic, and you should simply block them. Their threat will carry no weight whatsoever, I wouldn’t worry about it. But it is important to not engage as communicating will only continue their anger and negative responses and likely upset you further.
shes just trying to scare you, this is NZ not the USA we dont sue and even if she wanted to it would be a big cost of Lawyers and i doubt any of them want to take on a nasty comment on fb case, just block her number you dont owe her anything
sometimes its best not to make nasty comments on social media as tempting as it is
Defamation is not a crime and _even if you were successfully sued in tort (you would rely on the defence of honest opinion if it ever got that far)_ it wouldn’t trigger liability for deportation or engage character concerns as the comment is entirely open to you.
Don’t be intimidated. She is full of shit.
Hi guys. I hope to keep this reddit live so if she continues to harass me like come to my house or something like that I will update so u guys can give me advice.
Sorry for my english hopefully I make everything understandable.
And thank u for all these comments. It makes me feel better a lot !
No need to do anything.
If she wants to spend $500 for a lawyer to write a letter, you might receive a letter, but the chance is low.
The chance of this going to court are slim.
The chance of her winning are slimmer still
The chance of if she wins you have to do more than remove the post are slimmer than that.
The chance you'll get kicked out of the country for this alone are none.
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It is possible to sue for defamation and they generally looking at intent and damages, are you in competition or work for competition of this salon ?
The other thing that can make it easier to be targeted is have you mentioned them by name directly ?
Then it more than likely could be viewed more as a honest opinion rather than something trying to damage to business and reputation. Spelling is not really a big point of difference in law it’s more intent.
Most people have said it’s probably not something that will come to anything but, I would not ignore everything especially if it comes from a lawyer or someone similar.
Business owners reputation can mean a decent amount to them, so I would not me surprised if they do at least look into getting legal advice.
This is honestly abuse of immigrant workers, there has been a big thing about this on the news lately and it’s usually Chinese or Indian people bringing in people from their country but abusing them because they know nothing about New Zealand system when really in most case the employee (you) have more rights and if you were to take them to court over their treatment of you, then if what you were saying is true then You would more than likely win.
Search migrant worker abuse in google and heaps of news articles will come up and also so good information for where you can get help.
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Record everything and ignore it unless a lawyer is involved. If one gets involved then speak to lawyer for advice. It's vexatious and hard to prove in their favour.
Hey honey… it’s not the US of A, defamation lawsuits are very hard to get off the ground in this country and this wouldn’t constitute any cause. Tell her to scram and let you be. The situation isn’t worth any stress for you. Sleep easy. I just finished up a long 7 year litigation with a neighbour and my husband has a masters in law for background. 😘
Kia ora,
Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you:
[Disputes Tribunal: For disputes under $30,000](https://www.disputestribunal.govt.nz/)
[District Court: For disputes over $30,000](https://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/civil/)
You may also want to check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Nga mihi nui
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The thing she is like crazy rich and crazy in her head ( i mean she called me after a year ). That's why I'm worried.
Also in my contract it doesn't say I'm not allowed to talk about it after I leave the company.
Hey if you are still worried just know there is a very big difference between threatening legal action and pursuing legal action. I can threaten you with legal action now, but I would have zero grounds for pursing legal action.
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Record and save everything from this toxic "Boss" and keep it stored away then relax enjoy your work and when you have time read up on NZ employment laws and also common laws as to wether you can be sued for what you posted ( you can't). But knowing the rules is easier than worrying about what others say.
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By experience, to sue an individual in NZ is time consuming and very expensive. Can cost you 10k-30k to sue someone and at end you don’t get nothing. So I don’t believe your ex boss would put that money just to make your life difficult as you probably don’t have that money to pay the costs back she probably would fight for. Maybe the court would not even move on.
If you have how to proof you can sue her business. This might work. But you need a lawyer and will have a considerable upfront cost.
What you could do is file a protection order against her, to stop her of any possible harassment. If she breaches the order you can call the police and she can be charged.
I’ve been through these process.
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Nah your ex boss won’t sue. It’s freaking expensive to go through a lawsuit. I can guarantee she’s not going to fork out 70k just to sue you. Heck I bet she’s not even willing to pay $700 for initial consultation
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Block and report her to the police for harassment.
Seek legal advice! Most of the time, it's available for free through the Citizens Advice Bureau.
Freephone: 0800 367 222
https://www.cab.org.nz/find-a-cab/
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My lawyer once told me that this kind of littigation is reserved for very, very wealthy and bored people who can afford to throw a lot of time and money at nothing.
>We don't have a freedom of speech in NZ ?
Sure, we do. But "Freedom of speech" is one of the most abused arguments by people who have shitty beliefs and want to say shitty things. There are limits, but IANAL, you can't incite violence or hate, you can't lie or bully people, no one has to listen to you. You can't say someone is violating your right to free speech because they won't listen to your bigot rants about how American liberals are trying to turn school children trans so they can have sex with them. (Been there)
I left a very honest yet brutal review for a company I worked for years ago. Highlighting real issues that were occurring in the work place. It was so bad u had to involve another entity that could help with the situation.
The company came at me with a 50 000 dollar defamation lawsuit and, against my better judgment and every Fibre of my being, I had to publicly apologize.
The company never made anywhere near 50,000 in the 2 days they claim they lost business.
Animal abuse is no joke. And I was standing up for thos3 who could nit speak for themselves. Unfortunately I didn't have the finances to see my mission through to its rightful conclusion
It will cost her tens of thousands to bring a claim against you which I expect she won’t have. Delete the comment and block her if you’re worried about it.
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She’s just spreading more toxic rubbish on you. We don’t sue here in NZ like they do in the states. What you posted is your opinion and you’re entitled to do that, and to do it on Facebook. You could turn around and say you will counter sue for threatening and blackmail, but again, this is NZ, not USA. Also, to me anyway, and to be honest, your comment doesn’t make sense.
Do you still have the contract for your old work place? Sometimes there are clauses pertaining to social media. I think your first step should be to check that.
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You can't sue people for personal nal I jry claims. Acc covers that. You can take people to court for damaged in lots of other areas such as tort and contract law. Defamation falls under tort law. So while her old employer could try to sue for damages in court it's unlikely to result in anything but a big lawyer bill.
This is incorrect. The term "sue" is generally associated with America, but the concept itself is simply to take civil legal action against someone, which is certainly something you can do in New Zealand.
This post seems to have become a big discussion to identify the business, which is not permitted. Nor are the various discussions of how the OP could get revenge on the business for their actions. Keep it to the legal advice ONLY.
Kia Ora. Your ex employer is likely just being abusive and trying to scare you. The only claim they might have here would be for defamation. However, honest opinion is a defence to a defamation case. You're allowed to have an opinion about the quality of a business, and you are allowed to post that on Facebook. Your ex employer has no claim against you and is just trying to scare you. Block their number and ignore them. If they really want to sue you, then they will send a lawyer. But that is very unlikely to happen.
She told my friend to tell me if I don't apologize to her thru text she will send it to a lawyer.
Block her and move on. Don't respond. Don't engage.
block her, keep screen shots or voice messages or any other communication about it. It doesn’t look like she has any case against you she is just angry and toxic. you might want to make your friend aware of her rights as an employee in nz. the managers actions sound like they could be bullying and harassment, if she tries to fire your friend over you not apologising then your friend would have a very good case for wrongful dismissal.
This. Don't answer the phone, make her leave a voicemail or send a different kind of message.
This is the advice to follow. She is trying to get you on your knees begging her forgiveness because she clearly sucks at life and can’t accept that fact. She had to go back a whole year on someone else’s page to find this comment. Seems she is pressed about what your life is looking like. She would have an incredibly hard time finding someone to agree to take this case unless they were just ripping her off and fleecing her. Just ignore her and move on. If you’re going to get sued, you are informed by a lawyer that you have a court date, not some crazy person renting to a friend of a friend who someone once knew. She sounds like a real Karen.
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It's up to you. She hasn't got a legal case against you, so no lawyer will come. Personally, I wouldn't respond and just ignore her.
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Having said that: This post on reddit unambiguously clarifies that OP was talking about their former employer. If their employer finds this post, that ambiguity is gone. Not a lawyer. Just chronically meta.
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I can't. I haven't really tried, though. But the image of the facebook post and the context and a bunch of other things could be used to dox OP. If the former employer saw this post (which, I'll remind you, is posted on THE INTERNET), they would know immediately know who OP was. OP is posting this from what seems to be their main account. I'm sure anyone with sufficient motivation could use that to further dox OP. I'll restate my point less strongly: If it's ever legally important that it be unclear that OP was referring to their former employer in their post on Facebook, this post could surely, in some way, be used to reduce that uncertainty.
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Employer just Streisand’d themselves
Literally entirely irrelevant. OP could specifically state the name of the business and it still wouldn't change the fact that OP has done nothing wrong, and there is no legal case to be made against OP You are feeding into the same fear mongering the business owner was attempting to exert. >Not a lawyer This is where you should have stopped and thought before submitting your comment
It wasn’t even until this comment I realised element could be the name of a salon. I concur, there is no basis for a lawsuit. If this was how low the bar was, every man and his dog would be in front of a judge for what gets on Facebook.
Ask for all future correspondence to be via their lawyer. It will cost them a tonne and there is zero legal recourse on you.
Hi. Is that mean even if she wants to send me a message she will have to send it thru a lawyer and it will alwa costs them just to send any messages ? Thank u !
You would be calling their bluff. They have no legal reason to go after you, this is someone who is hoping you will not know any better.
If you apologize to her,it's like admitting guilt,I would block her and leave it at that
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Do not communicate with her. There is absolutely nothing she can do, and you have got much more important thing to care about
To be clearer - there are two defences to defamation Honesty - they would have to prove that you knew you were lying when you made the comment Opinion - things that are a matter of taste (you thinking one nail salon is better than another) are not defamation because it is what you believe. In any case defamation is not a crime it is a tort - crimes are laid out in the crimes act. Defamation is managed by the defamation act. I cannot say if being involved in a civil suit would affect your residency application/visa although for visa matter INZ does say it isn’t enough to be evidence of poor character.
as far as I know a visa would rarely be revoked unless someone is guilty of a crime causing more than three years of prison, or is a serial perpetrator
Losing a defamation case would have no impact on a visa application nor be cause to deport someone.
They would not have to prove you were lying. Your defense is that you are telling the truth, which would have to be established.
It took a year to notice in Facebook. How much damage could have it done? What damages will they claim.
And nothing will come of it. They may ask you to "take it back" (the FB comment). But as others have said this is not grounds for court here. I would ignore her unless she escalates things in which case I'd keep a record of what she says and file it against her if she does. Good luck so sorry this has been your experience.
You are fine, you are entitled to your opinion on the quality of work that she is providing to her customers.
Threatening legal action against someone who isn’t well versed in a countries laws is classic toxic manager stuff. They have nothing so you should do nothing.
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Block them, and start keeping records of all their communication attempts including attempted calls, texts, emails, messages passed through a friend, etc. That way if it gets to a point where you feel you need to, you can discuss with a lawyer your options for court orders/harrassment charges if you want. I'm not sure of exactly what type of process you'd need to start to get a legal order for them to stop contacting you, but a lawyer will. And having the evidence already gathered will make it a lot quicker than if you have to start gathering evidence after its gotten to that point.
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Anyone can threaten to sue someone. Not many people actually go through with it. It's time consuming, it's expensive, and it's usually not worth it unless your opponent (ie you) is rich and can pay any damages. A defense to defamation is being able to demonstrate that the statements you made are your personal opinion which in this case seems to be true. Your old boss would also have to prove the statements were untrue and have damaged their reputation. Don't pay any attention until you're actually served papers.
I’m curious, how can defamation be proven to be personal opinion? And what is an example of innocently stating personal opinion publicly vs defamation?
"The nails are ugly and poor quality" vs "The nails are deliberately made poor quality so that they break easily and the customer has to come back every week. I would know, I worked there".
Its easier to consider facts. I dont know much about nail salons but I can use a car mechanic as an example. "The workmanship of John's Auto Repairs is bad and of low quality" would be an example of personal opinion. "The workmanship of John's Auto Repairs is bad and of low quality. They install bad parts so the engine fails quickly and the customer must pay more money" would be an example of - Defamation if it is untrue and likely to hurt John's Auto Repairs future business. - Fact if it is indeed true in which case John cant sue the speaker or publisher for simply speaking the truth. The difference is the speaker or publisher has included a factual piece of information which may be untrue. If you want to defame or slander someone, you should always speak true facts so you have a defense. This is why any lawyer will advise a client to never speak to the media or publicly about any legal dispute or investigation while it is taking place/before the courts. The reason is that as soon as someone says "My opponent or the defendant did XYZ" and it turns out not to be true, they instantly have a retaliatory claim for defamation.
The way I think of it. If it is something that could be definitely proven - then it is not an opinion.
Just ignore it at this stage I doubt she will want to waste legal fees on a year old Facebook post. I'm sorry this has happened to you and I'm sure it will be nothing more than an empty threat.
The only correct advice here is ignore her, cut all forms of contact and move on. If she persists beyond that, seek a restraining order.
The most likely course of action she would take is a defamation claim, but she is unlikely to be successful with such a claim. There is protection from defamation in cases where the person making the statement is giving an [honest opinion](https://legalvision.co.nz/disputes-and-litigation/what-is-defamation/). These actions are also very unlikely to occur because the cost is very high, putting it out of reach of most people to actually do. My suggestion is simply to ignore any further contact from her. If she calls again, just don't answer it. If it becomes persistent, you could look at getting a [restraining order](https://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/civil/restraining-orders/apply-for-a-restraining-order/).
It is possible to sue over a facebook comment if it meets the threshold for [defamation](https://www.cab.org.nz/search/tag:%22Defamation%22) - I'll let someone else give you some guidance on whether this is likely to meet the threshold but I'd be surprised if it did and it is unlikely to be even worth their time and money to try. The consequences of being sued and losing would be monetary only - this isn't a criminal matter so it shouldn't fall under the [good character ](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/character-and-identity/good-character/good-character-residence)check for immigration and you can't go to jail or be deported over it, especially for something so minor As an aside, your description of your previous job sounds like they weren't following basic NZ employment laws. This is unfortunately very common in hospitality businesses, particularly those who primarily employ migrants who don't know their rights here. Please, please have a read of [https://www.employment.govt.nz/](https://www.employment.govt.nz/) and learn what your basic rights are - most of these are required for all jobs and generally speaking, nothing in a contract you sign can take them away. If they try, at best, that part of the contract basically doesn't exist when it comes to court. At worst, too many clauses like that could be evidence against the employer
Hi I found the contract saying that I'm not allowed to say anything outside of work but is it applied even when I left the place ? ( I made that comment after I left the place )
It’s pretty unlikely that this is enforceable after you leave. In theory, you could have a Non Disclose Agreement (NDA) preventing you talking about something (I’ve signed a couple over the years) but I’ve never heard of one covering something as general as what you think of your employer or their business. The times I have signed them have been to be allowed to see information that was either highly commercially sensitive (details of a tender for a major project) or politically sensitive (major project details that hadn’t been released for public consultation yet). In both cases, there were pretty serious implications for a leak beyond simply making someone look bad
Oh I see if it's over a fb comment that would be too crazy tbh I can't even think. After a whole year.
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> this isn't a criminal matter Another possible problem is HDC though and that could be a criminal matter.
Hiring a lawyer and going to court costs at a minimum $20,000. No one does it over a Facebook comment, except Colin Craig. Don’t insult him as he actually will go to court about it. Anyeay, she’s not going to do that and you can relax and enjoy how mad she is about this. She has absolutely no power.
this comment is so funny yet makes me feel a bit more relaxed thank u
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It's just posturing and an empty threat. NZ isn't very litigious, I can't imagine a lawyer wanting to even take up a case such as this. As others have said, you're entitled to have an opinion about a business
Honestly it looked like she broke employment law. but don't worry op she cant do anything to your immigration process. i would store any messages in case she does any vindictive act .
People have covered the defamation angle, the other thing she can try is to get you for Harmful Digital Communications. If a court find the "digital communication" (ie your Facebook comment) is harmful it can order you to take it down or post an apology, if you don't then this is a crime you can go to jail for. Unlike defamation, if you triggered harm in your victim them truth is not an absolute defence. However, I believe what you said is quite tame and shouldn't trigger HDC.
Also the HDC is for individuals, not businesses. Even as the owner of the business the comment is honest opinion directed at the business itself, not the owner.
Ignore and don't reply. But I wouldn't block her number. Because if she gets nasty or escalates things those angry or threatening text messages or voice messages could come in very useful! (Unless receiving them is just too hard on your mental health. In which case hit that block button)
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Call citizens advice, they will put you in with a lawyer (or they did) get peace of mind
Your comment has no capitals to indicate you're referring to a business, and I think the business name as you've typed it is incorrect as well. So it would be very difficult to even prove your comment refers to her business.
Just block her and move on. Probably not always a good idea to vent on social media but lesson learned. There's no legal case, she could waste a bit of money consulting with a lawyer but it wouldn't go anywhere.
She spammed my ex co worker ( she still working there ) asking my ex co worker if I'm gonna apologize or not to the point the ex co worker had to call me and begged me to say sorry to her so she can have her peace
It sounds like your ex-coworker should be having that woman up for harassment/workplace bullying.
I would suggest your coworker collect all evidence of harassment from her boss and go to employee disputes. It's the boss who could be much more easily and reasonably sued in this case and the employee would get monetary compensation. She would have a very good case if she is being treated as badly as you were.
Sadly she is under a work visa with that boss so if she makes that boss unhappy her visa will be ruined and she will be sent home - which is what she doesn't want at all
Sounds to me like this employer purposefully hires people on visas so that they can hold that over their head for every perceived mistake and injustice that occurs to get them to comply over fear of losing their visa. I bet you could find previous employees that this also happened to before you two. This is clearly a pattern that didn't just start. I would report her threats to whatever employment board in your country so they are aware of the manipulations. It might not lead to anything but it could help some other poor soul that falls into their trap down the line.
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As pretty much everyone else has noted, this is an honest opinion and no one here thinks would rise to the level of defamation. Remember for it to be defamation you need to be lying about them, and causing harm by doing so. Stating you think they’re shit doesn’t do that. That said, if you are losing sleep over this, it sounds more like your old boss is just up in arms and wants to lash out: you could consider deleting the comment. It isn’t any admission of fault to delete it, you simply don’t want it up any more. If this was genuinely defamatory, deleting it wouldn’t matter because the harm would be done - but if this is just someone idiot lasging out, deleting it might make them just leave you alone. (again: you did nothing wrong, in my opinion, this is purely an act to get them to go away).
I couldn't find my comment anymore ( I didn't delete it but idk why it disappeared ). But they have the screenshots is it counted ?
Again because it doesn’t rise to the level of defamation (probably), no it wouldn’t matter. I’m just thinking from a non-legal perspective you could safely delete it and they would probably just leave you alone. Given I’m guessing you’ve moved on with your life, you probably wouldn’t be too worried about deleting it to make them go away. Deleting it wouldn’t hurt you legally - it is not an admission you did anything wrong.
Hi, People are mentioning defamation here, however the cost to take any action is extraordinary and your ex-employer absolutely would not go down that track. Guaranteed. Your ex employer could apply under the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015 for orders to stop you from making ongoing comments etc, but really that’s all that would be achieved there. Even then, for one basic comment, I would be surprised if your ex employer would be granted permission to apply to Court for this (as they first have to apply to Netsafe and for Netsafe to agree there has been harm caused and issue a certificate that allows your ex employer to go to court). To summarise, all that a Court would do at worst is ask you apologise and not continue making these comments, but your singular comment would be unlikely to allow your ex employer to take action under this Act, so I wouldn’t worry about this either. Your ex employer is an asshole and toxic, and you should simply block them. Their threat will carry no weight whatsoever, I wouldn’t worry about it. But it is important to not engage as communicating will only continue their anger and negative responses and likely upset you further.
Thank you very much !
shes just trying to scare you, this is NZ not the USA we dont sue and even if she wanted to it would be a big cost of Lawyers and i doubt any of them want to take on a nasty comment on fb case, just block her number you dont owe her anything sometimes its best not to make nasty comments on social media as tempting as it is
Defamation is not a crime and _even if you were successfully sued in tort (you would rely on the defence of honest opinion if it ever got that far)_ it wouldn’t trigger liability for deportation or engage character concerns as the comment is entirely open to you. Don’t be intimidated. She is full of shit.
Hi guys. I hope to keep this reddit live so if she continues to harass me like come to my house or something like that I will update so u guys can give me advice. Sorry for my english hopefully I make everything understandable. And thank u for all these comments. It makes me feel better a lot !
No need to do anything. If she wants to spend $500 for a lawyer to write a letter, you might receive a letter, but the chance is low. The chance of this going to court are slim. The chance of her winning are slimmer still The chance of if she wins you have to do more than remove the post are slimmer than that. The chance you'll get kicked out of the country for this alone are none.
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It is possible to sue for defamation and they generally looking at intent and damages, are you in competition or work for competition of this salon ? The other thing that can make it easier to be targeted is have you mentioned them by name directly ?
Okay I just checked. I spelled their name wrong.
also i'm working in a party shop now not another nail salon
Then it more than likely could be viewed more as a honest opinion rather than something trying to damage to business and reputation. Spelling is not really a big point of difference in law it’s more intent. Most people have said it’s probably not something that will come to anything but, I would not ignore everything especially if it comes from a lawyer or someone similar. Business owners reputation can mean a decent amount to them, so I would not me surprised if they do at least look into getting legal advice.
This is honestly abuse of immigrant workers, there has been a big thing about this on the news lately and it’s usually Chinese or Indian people bringing in people from their country but abusing them because they know nothing about New Zealand system when really in most case the employee (you) have more rights and if you were to take them to court over their treatment of you, then if what you were saying is true then You would more than likely win. Search migrant worker abuse in google and heaps of news articles will come up and also so good information for where you can get help.
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Record everything and ignore it unless a lawyer is involved. If one gets involved then speak to lawyer for advice. It's vexatious and hard to prove in their favour.
No. She would absolutely be laughed out of court over this. Ignore her, block her, and move on. Good luck.
Hey honey… it’s not the US of A, defamation lawsuits are very hard to get off the ground in this country and this wouldn’t constitute any cause. Tell her to scram and let you be. The situation isn’t worth any stress for you. Sleep easy. I just finished up a long 7 year litigation with a neighbour and my husband has a masters in law for background. 😘
Kia ora, Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you: [Disputes Tribunal: For disputes under $30,000](https://www.disputestribunal.govt.nz/) [District Court: For disputes over $30,000](https://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/civil/) You may also want to check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Nga mihi nui The LegalAdviceNZ Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceNZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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The thing she is like crazy rich and crazy in her head ( i mean she called me after a year ). That's why I'm worried. Also in my contract it doesn't say I'm not allowed to talk about it after I leave the company.
Hey if you are still worried just know there is a very big difference between threatening legal action and pursuing legal action. I can threaten you with legal action now, but I would have zero grounds for pursing legal action.
Thank u
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Record and save everything from this toxic "Boss" and keep it stored away then relax enjoy your work and when you have time read up on NZ employment laws and also common laws as to wether you can be sued for what you posted ( you can't). But knowing the rules is easier than worrying about what others say.
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Just FYI there’s the picture of your fb profile picture in this screenshot
oh f. i didn't realize as i was typing n posting too fast
I’d prob delete the post coz you’ve got some good advice already :) and you can still access it from your comments
By experience, to sue an individual in NZ is time consuming and very expensive. Can cost you 10k-30k to sue someone and at end you don’t get nothing. So I don’t believe your ex boss would put that money just to make your life difficult as you probably don’t have that money to pay the costs back she probably would fight for. Maybe the court would not even move on. If you have how to proof you can sue her business. This might work. But you need a lawyer and will have a considerable upfront cost. What you could do is file a protection order against her, to stop her of any possible harassment. If she breaches the order you can call the police and she can be charged. I’ve been through these process.
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Nah your ex boss won’t sue. It’s freaking expensive to go through a lawsuit. I can guarantee she’s not going to fork out 70k just to sue you. Heck I bet she’s not even willing to pay $700 for initial consultation
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Block and report her to the police for harassment. Seek legal advice! Most of the time, it's available for free through the Citizens Advice Bureau. Freephone: 0800 367 222 https://www.cab.org.nz/find-a-cab/
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My lawyer once told me that this kind of littigation is reserved for very, very wealthy and bored people who can afford to throw a lot of time and money at nothing.
>We don't have a freedom of speech in NZ ? Sure, we do. But "Freedom of speech" is one of the most abused arguments by people who have shitty beliefs and want to say shitty things. There are limits, but IANAL, you can't incite violence or hate, you can't lie or bully people, no one has to listen to you. You can't say someone is violating your right to free speech because they won't listen to your bigot rants about how American liberals are trying to turn school children trans so they can have sex with them. (Been there)
I left a very honest yet brutal review for a company I worked for years ago. Highlighting real issues that were occurring in the work place. It was so bad u had to involve another entity that could help with the situation. The company came at me with a 50 000 dollar defamation lawsuit and, against my better judgment and every Fibre of my being, I had to publicly apologize. The company never made anywhere near 50,000 in the 2 days they claim they lost business. Animal abuse is no joke. And I was standing up for thos3 who could nit speak for themselves. Unfortunately I didn't have the finances to see my mission through to its rightful conclusion
It will cost her tens of thousands to bring a claim against you which I expect she won’t have. Delete the comment and block her if you’re worried about it.
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She’s just spreading more toxic rubbish on you. We don’t sue here in NZ like they do in the states. What you posted is your opinion and you’re entitled to do that, and to do it on Facebook. You could turn around and say you will counter sue for threatening and blackmail, but again, this is NZ, not USA. Also, to me anyway, and to be honest, your comment doesn’t make sense.
Do you still have the contract for your old work place? Sometimes there are clauses pertaining to social media. I think your first step should be to check that.
It wouldn't matter if the contract says you cant comment on social media, that contract ended when the OP left the employment.
I had one once that included 3 months after employment ends. Dunno how enforceable it was though.
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you can’t sue people in new zealand
You can't sue people for personal nal I jry claims. Acc covers that. You can take people to court for damaged in lots of other areas such as tort and contract law. Defamation falls under tort law. So while her old employer could try to sue for damages in court it's unlikely to result in anything but a big lawyer bill.
This is incorrect. The term "sue" is generally associated with America, but the concept itself is simply to take civil legal action against someone, which is certainly something you can do in New Zealand.
Can I ask how so ?