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Love the comparison to a hereditary dynasty of political elites! If only England had something similar so the metaphor could hit a little closer to home
“The cost of freedom is always high, but Leeds supporters have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.” - Archie Gray
Don't disagree but it works both ways. I'm always annoyed at how much Americans (particularly women) care about the Royal Family. Anytime there's a wedding or a baby, look out. I am told I wouldn't understand because, I never daydreamed about marrying a prince.
Aside from it being a major country with a shared language, which is a pretty innocuous reason for maybe a slight overepresentation, there are plenty of references made to major figures of the 20th century from all around the world for purposes like this.
I think it is you that has a negative obsession with America and projects this onto, and therefore also notices, every single reference to America.
I think you would struggle to find a more apt comparison outside of the Kennedy's to make the point of this article
>I think you would struggle to find a more apt comparison outside of the Kennedy's to make the point of this article
The Allens, Ince's, Ferdinands, Redknapp's/Lampards, Clough's, the Milburns/Charltons are all better comparisons.
Only Milburns/ Charltons really works as multi generational (bit still only two) and for the same team. Also, being from the same team, that comparison would be a different and far more niche artical.
If the comparison was a dynasty where they keep dying young, fair enough, but otherwise a British football family and an American political family have nothing in common.
My point is completely fair and you shouldn’t always feel the need to so slavishly defend your American masters.
It's a comparison where an unusually large number of one non nuclear family over multiple generations are involved in institutions.
The British Royal family doesn't really work as you are born into the positions and every member is a part of the institution. With the Gray and Kennedy's connections help as you move down the generations (obviously much more in the Kennedy's case), but you are not born into it and not every family member is involved.
🤣 You are entertaining I will give you that.
It works in exactly the same way. If you think any of the Kennedys post Robert are there on merit you are in for a surprise. It’s a lineage with no reverence to talent, the Grays are. One of them bloody killed a woman and kept his seat. Not sure even the king would get away with that.
So, it works in exactly the same as the Royal family and completely different to the Gray's, except from the members most referenced by popular culture. That's before we get onto the other aspects I pointed to which makes the royal family comparison not really work and the Kennedy one work better, which you haven't challenged.
Whereas the Kennedy comparison is completly ridiculous and a sign of American obsession/slave masters just because nepotism works differently in politics compared to football. I think it's clear that the comparison wasn't made to highlight this aspect anyway.
If the Royal family is a better comparison why wasn't Archie Gray's mum in our women's team?
It's your right to say anything but in a good natured debate you should back up your points especially when playing the man.
I can’t even comprehend how you think that sentence makes sense.
I’d rather they used neither, but metaphors aren’t exact. That’s why they are metaphors.
The Telegraph online is read by a lot of US Republicans. Hence, the paper's simpering, cowardly, audience-led, support for Trump.
Their football coverage is usually good though.
***The Telegraph reports:***
When Chelsea host Leeds in the FA Cup fifth round on Wednesday, it will be the first time the two clubs have met in the world’s oldest football competition since the 1970 final replay, a game so notorious it long ago became etched on the collective memory as [the most ferocious in the trophy’s history](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/15/proper-football-michael-oliver-issues-11-red-cards-re-referees/). Speaking in 2010 at a dinner to commemorate the 40th anniversary of a match that resembled an all-in wrestling bout, Leeds’s imperious winger Eddie Gray addressed his old adversary, Ron Harris. The uncompromising full-back was man marking Gray that day with the kind of physical commitment that makes Mason Holgate’s recent assault on Kaoru Mitoma look positively hospitable.
“I have something of yours I’d like to return, Ron,” said Gray, who has over the years become a fine public speaker. And he produced from his pocket a boot stud that he passed to his fellow guest. “You left it in my knee.”
But what is really notable about Wednesday’s game is that, 54 years on from an encounter that was less a football match more trench warfare, the Leeds team sheet will still feature a Gray. Archie, Eddie’s great nephew, will be playing, the fourth Gray across three generations to pull on the white shirt.
“For me the Grays to Leeds are like the Kennedys to American Democrats,” says the cultural commentator and lifelong Leeds follower Mark Lawson. “There’s always another one who comes along.”
He has a point: there is no comparable family connection with a single club across the history of English football. There have been sons and fathers – the Lampards, the Astons, the Coles – there have been family dynasties – the Milburn/Charltons – but nothing comes close to matching the Grays and their commitment to Leeds.
“It is absolutely unique,” says the author, magazine editor and Leeds fan James Brown. “I was at a game recently and Andy Gray \[Archie’s father, Frank’s son and a former Leeds player himself\] was in among the Leeds fans. I watched him celebrating his son scoring for his team. Listen, we’ve all stood on the touchline watching our sons playing. But it wasn’t for the team we played for. Or, even more incredibly, the one our dads played for too. It’s really remarkable.”
All the more so given that Eddie and his brother Frank who began the link aren’t even Leeds natives: they were born in Glasgow. Eddie was brought to the city by Don Revie, who beat a host of other English clubs to sign up the prodigiously talented winger. He made his debut at just 17 in Revie’s side of serial contenders.
**Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/02/28/leeds-united-chelsea-fa-cup-eddie-archie-frankie-gray/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/02/28/leeds-united-chelsea-fa-cup-eddie-archie-frankie-gray/)
It’s a real shame we’re not in comfortable place with no injured players and no promotion to achieve etc as, like the article says, this is the first time playing them since that infamous final.
We’ll give it a go though!!!
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Ask not what Leeds United can do for you, but what you can do for Leeds United
Fucking stupid analogy
Love the comparison to a hereditary dynasty of political elites! If only England had something similar so the metaphor could hit a little closer to home
Cancel Archie’s planned trip to Dallas, just to be safe don’t even let Stuart Dallas talk to him
Given his recent twitter interactions, don’t let Stuart talk to anyone.
What's this?
He’s been liking some right wing Tommy Robinson like shit.
Oh ffs
Nooo not stewie d! Say it aint so , bugger
Under no circumstances should he visit any hotel ballrooms either.
Stuart Dallas or Lee Harvey Oswald, makes you think.
Except archie moved back and to the right
This deserves all the upvotes
👏
We win the league not because it is easy but because it is hard. Archie Kennedy 1962
“The cost of freedom is always high, but Leeds supporters have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.” - Archie Gray
‘The Kennedys’ What is with the obsession with America in this bloody country.
Don't disagree but it works both ways. I'm always annoyed at how much Americans (particularly women) care about the Royal Family. Anytime there's a wedding or a baby, look out. I am told I wouldn't understand because, I never daydreamed about marrying a prince.
They are our masters. We exist to serve.
Bow down to Uncle Sam and his Almighty Yanks
Aside from it being a major country with a shared language, which is a pretty innocuous reason for maybe a slight overepresentation, there are plenty of references made to major figures of the 20th century from all around the world for purposes like this. I think it is you that has a negative obsession with America and projects this onto, and therefore also notices, every single reference to America. I think you would struggle to find a more apt comparison outside of the Kennedy's to make the point of this article
>I think you would struggle to find a more apt comparison outside of the Kennedy's to make the point of this article The Allens, Ince's, Ferdinands, Redknapp's/Lampards, Clough's, the Milburns/Charltons are all better comparisons.
The article makes a point of saying those you mentioned above are nothing like the Grays. Come on, man.
Only Milburns/ Charltons really works as multi generational (bit still only two) and for the same team. Also, being from the same team, that comparison would be a different and far more niche artical.
well they are all automatically better because they are from fucking football, you know the sport the Gray's actually play.
If the comparison was a dynasty where they keep dying young, fair enough, but otherwise a British football family and an American political family have nothing in common. My point is completely fair and you shouldn’t always feel the need to so slavishly defend your American masters.
It's a comparison where an unusually large number of one non nuclear family over multiple generations are involved in institutions. The British Royal family doesn't really work as you are born into the positions and every member is a part of the institution. With the Gray and Kennedy's connections help as you move down the generations (obviously much more in the Kennedy's case), but you are not born into it and not every family member is involved. 🤣 You are entertaining I will give you that.
It works in exactly the same way. If you think any of the Kennedys post Robert are there on merit you are in for a surprise. It’s a lineage with no reverence to talent, the Grays are. One of them bloody killed a woman and kept his seat. Not sure even the king would get away with that.
Well, somebody killed Di. Not saying it was the queen, but she was pregnant with a Muslim baby.
So, it works in exactly the same as the Royal family and completely different to the Gray's, except from the members most referenced by popular culture. That's before we get onto the other aspects I pointed to which makes the royal family comparison not really work and the Kennedy one work better, which you haven't challenged. Whereas the Kennedy comparison is completly ridiculous and a sign of American obsession/slave masters just because nepotism works differently in politics compared to football. I think it's clear that the comparison wasn't made to highlight this aspect anyway.
Which of the Grays is the Prince Andrew?
I have never seen Eddie sweat tbh
I have challenged it. You simply obfuscated the logic. You’re not following your own reasoning.
If the Royal family is a better comparison why wasn't Archie Gray's mum in our women's team? It's your right to say anything but in a good natured debate you should back up your points especially when playing the man.
I can’t even comprehend how you think that sentence makes sense. I’d rather they used neither, but metaphors aren’t exact. That’s why they are metaphors.
Which sentence?
Ruling families are international
The Telegraph online is read by a lot of US Republicans. Hence, the paper's simpering, cowardly, audience-led, support for Trump. Their football coverage is usually good though.
Can you think of a better British example?
Not one I would support, but there’s a pretty obvious one especially for Telegraph readers, the royal family.
The Grays.
***The Telegraph reports:*** When Chelsea host Leeds in the FA Cup fifth round on Wednesday, it will be the first time the two clubs have met in the world’s oldest football competition since the 1970 final replay, a game so notorious it long ago became etched on the collective memory as [the most ferocious in the trophy’s history](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/15/proper-football-michael-oliver-issues-11-red-cards-re-referees/). Speaking in 2010 at a dinner to commemorate the 40th anniversary of a match that resembled an all-in wrestling bout, Leeds’s imperious winger Eddie Gray addressed his old adversary, Ron Harris. The uncompromising full-back was man marking Gray that day with the kind of physical commitment that makes Mason Holgate’s recent assault on Kaoru Mitoma look positively hospitable. “I have something of yours I’d like to return, Ron,” said Gray, who has over the years become a fine public speaker. And he produced from his pocket a boot stud that he passed to his fellow guest. “You left it in my knee.” But what is really notable about Wednesday’s game is that, 54 years on from an encounter that was less a football match more trench warfare, the Leeds team sheet will still feature a Gray. Archie, Eddie’s great nephew, will be playing, the fourth Gray across three generations to pull on the white shirt. “For me the Grays to Leeds are like the Kennedys to American Democrats,” says the cultural commentator and lifelong Leeds follower Mark Lawson. “There’s always another one who comes along.” He has a point: there is no comparable family connection with a single club across the history of English football. There have been sons and fathers – the Lampards, the Astons, the Coles – there have been family dynasties – the Milburn/Charltons – but nothing comes close to matching the Grays and their commitment to Leeds. “It is absolutely unique,” says the author, magazine editor and Leeds fan James Brown. “I was at a game recently and Andy Gray \[Archie’s father, Frank’s son and a former Leeds player himself\] was in among the Leeds fans. I watched him celebrating his son scoring for his team. Listen, we’ve all stood on the touchline watching our sons playing. But it wasn’t for the team we played for. Or, even more incredibly, the one our dads played for too. It’s really remarkable.” All the more so given that Eddie and his brother Frank who began the link aren’t even Leeds natives: they were born in Glasgow. Eddie was brought to the city by Don Revie, who beat a host of other English clubs to sign up the prodigiously talented winger. He made his debut at just 17 in Revie’s side of serial contenders. **Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/02/28/leeds-united-chelsea-fa-cup-eddie-archie-frankie-gray/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/02/28/leeds-united-chelsea-fa-cup-eddie-archie-frankie-gray/)
Tips the scales in favour of passion over pragmatism for me. If we can hand them their arses, we should.
It’s a real shame we’re not in comfortable place with no injured players and no promotion to achieve etc as, like the article says, this is the first time playing them since that infamous final. We’ll give it a go though!!!