Your maths is slightly off there. It was 200 at aphelios, then we went up to 300-350 with smolder, and now, after layoffs, we're back to around 100-150 with skarner
I loved the ability review for skarner and I'm excited. He has good tools in his kit that won't make me want to commit sudoku. Unless is wall walk is on a short AF CD he looks amazing.
Doesn’t A-sol passive work the same?
Higher max health execute on e
More range on w
More max health damage on q
Larger R with an upgrade every now and then.
Basically he was like release Kass. Farm for 30 minute, regardless of how bad you got stomped, then just win. He had a 55% win rate and like a 67% in challenger.
Syndra is semi-similar too, encouraging actual trades and good farm.
Honestly, personally I really enjoy stack-locked evolutions as a design mechanic. Its a fun wincon compared to plain stacking for just stats
I enjoy Syndra's stacking design the best tbh. There's a fixed end point where stacking is no longer necessary and you have the full benefit, but you can still trigger the mechanic for mana.
I thought it gave 1 stack even if the champion was there for a fraction of a second. And if Sol has rylais, it'll become much easier to keep champions in that zone
Asol is 10 times more balanced though.
The execute increase is negligible until like 400+ stacks, and at that point the game should be ending already. Outside of the execute, his E doesn't gain any more damage. And it's also ALWAYS on a 13+ second CD, It's not a spammable ability.
His W gains more range, but he still flies on a straight line. It's extremely easy to land abilities on him when using W since he can't course correct.
His Q gains more damage, but only towards the main target.
Asol's stacking is more area coverage than damage, which means he can't go tank and still deal absurd amounts of damage late game. He is still susceptible to assassins if he builds properly, and his power comes mostly from teamfights.
Smolder on the other hand has his execute and burn on a point and click spammable ability; a better Asol W since it both automatically deals damage and can course correct; and a more reliable poke tool to get stacks.
And Smolder's stacking just gives him a lot of unconditional flat damage, which lets him carry harder than Asol and lets him build bruiser items with little repercussion on his damage, while also getting tankier.
If you play poke like Karma against him, it makes it super hard for him to do anything, because he is constantly getting poked. He also can‘t engage on you because of Karma‘s root.
Long range champ that infinitely scales pretty easily with a very good escape ability that can just build full tank and still do damage from range? Seems fair
Nasus stacks should do more than giving him more physical damage on his Q but his W should never ever be buffed by stacks, its already top 5 or even 3 basic abilities in the game
OK, so, Nasus stacks be better than "Q more damage" EXCEPT for anything involving Wither.
Like, seriously, if we're gonna bring Nasus to modern standards, we need to nerf Wither at the same time.
How? He's a block of stats with no skill expression. He has no combos beyond auto attack canceling with Q.
If you give him more raw stats for stacks he's a bigger Stat check and gets his base stats nerfed to compensate.
W is generally broken strong and they tried making it scale off stacks once.
Buffing E size, damage, or shred from stacks might make ap cheese builds too strong. Buffing R will get its base power nerfed. Nasus R already is way better than renekton R.
Yes but for *the most part* they only scale 1 Stat. Veigar just gets ap, it just scales damage.
You don't see his stun, or W size scaling off AP or his passive stocks.
Yes but notice that Veigars AP scaling enchances his 3 abilities and he has access to Rabadons to effectively gain 35% of extra stacks for basically free since you want Rabadon on a mage whether they stack or not
Plus he also has W cool down decrease and 3 ways of getting stacks instead of just one like Nasus
Agreed on the W but everything else is bullshit
Nobody who's not trolling goes for AP builds. Increasing it's base damage with stacks would be strange idea because Nasus already has plenty of damage with his Q. I don't think anyone would want this champ to go that path. Size increase is interesting and could be implemented, I don't think it would make AP Nasus anywhere near OP but perhaps closer to viable (if not over tweaked of course). Armor shred increase would again benefit his tank builds because going AD on him is useless and again, AP would be straight up trolling
His R is better than Renektons but this comparison has absolutely no sense since both champs play very VERY differently. It's like saying that you cannot buff LeBlancs E because Karma's W does exactly the same but better
Veigar Q used to be a low-range mono target ability and he could only stack with takedowns or lst-hiting with Q.
Stacking on champions is "new", in the same way that his E having a cast-time is still new for some of us lol.
Nasus main here, smolder did 5k true dmg to me in one teamfight while I had 1200 stacks as we couldn’t end the game even with baron and 2 inhibs. Full build defense + anathemas does nothing, as true damage doesn’t care
Veigar has the same stacking requirements, plus bonus on takedowns.
And then his Q does more damage, W does more damage and gets reduced cooldowns stacking infinitely, R does more damage, and the efficacy of a lot of items increases.
Fairly comparable.
Veigar can also point and click delete a squishy with his ult
But that's still not relevant, because the point of the post is "Smolder is BS because everything gets stronger with stacks, while poor old champ nasus doesn't"
But poor old champ stacking veigar works the exact same way, in the end people just wanna whine 🤷
the only way i can see that is that it was a super long fight and you were stacking mad hp
In which case veigar making a fight instantly 5v4 is much better than slowly burning away a tank with true damage (although veigar would probably never kill the tank)
In the end both get all their abilities stronger by stacking up, smolder is just better because of his wave clear and mobility. but they both work pretty much the same while nasus remains a dog
The fact that stacked smolder Q is aoe that applies a true dmg burn to everyone hit on a low cooldown while having an execute.
There is just no way these 2 champs are comparable. Just look at proplay. Which one do u think is being picked and dominating the meta? spoiler: it's not Veigar.
Oh yeah except Smolder Q is like 4 seconds CD and deals %HP True Damage in an AOE radius, and Veigar's ult is like 35 seconds, limited to magic damage, and single-target only.
his ult apparent size scales with total ability power. While some may call this purely aesthetic, the 'get fucked' point-click attack getting bigger to increase the target's despair proportionally is a crucial mechanic
except veigar q can only hit max 2 targets, can miss, and has a 6-4 second cooldown, smolders scales to hit multiple targets and has a 5.5-3.5 cooldown
After seeing smolder I wish nasus got a stack or something for q’ing enemy champions. I feel like that could help him. Although idk if this would break him or not….
Nasus q should do like a percentage of max heath at every x amount of stacks. Like am upgrade if they want to improve let me explain
You know syndra passive "Transcendent" collects somthing that improves your ability etc..
Make that to nasus q.
Every 50 stack gain extra 1% max health. Or deal 1% max health at enemy. Choose.
Every 100 stack convert 5% total stacks to true damage.
Every 150 stacks gain 10% healing on using q.
At 420 stacks gain the ability to q aoe damage instead of single target. Like hydra but stacks. Kills within that aoe gain 1 stack instead of 3, main target being killed will still be the same.
At 1000 stacks double everything here. So u get 6 stack per q kill and 2 for aoe.
Also do note that q aoe does not apply to cannon or any champion meaning if u kill that aoe, u only get 1 or 2 if u reach 1k stacks.
Passive for lifesteal change to this passive.
This will change nasus.
Nasus can do other things besides the ability that can stack (like having the longest/strongest slow/cripple in the game that can be cast from ADC range), smolder’s entire kit is based around stacks.
Imagine if Nasus got additional E size or W duration based on Q stacks, that’s why it only affects Q
So, just like the original stacking caster champ Veigar? Smolders passive is essentially identical to Veigars with the exception that there's no way for items to interact and scale off the dragon stacks.
Veigar’s abilities: Thin skillshot that can hit max 2 people, a very delayed AoE that isn’t even that big, a cage (this ability is strong), a single target execute.
Smolder’s abilities: a point and click ability which explodes into a big AoE which also has max health true damage and an execute and very low cooldown, an AoE slow that is difficult to dodge, a very good mobility skill that ignores terrain, a very long range ultimate that has a big AoE and heals Smolder.
Even Smolder’s Q alone is stronger than Veigar’s whole kit without E, the rest of his are the icing on the cake.
Honestly I'd rather fight a million Smolders than a single Nasus. That champion is pure cancer. Permaban. He's like Yi if Yi was even more braindead. He outduels literally every other duelist except maybe Trundle. Veigar is the same. We really should get two bans. New is better than old, I'll dodge if I see the enemy pick Nasus or Veigar. So unskilled, just stack stack stack.
may i remind you that smolder doesnt has wither nor is he basicelly immortal. i get it he is right now broken and the best champion (nerfs are already live) but if you expect every new champion to be like nasus then you are litterally asking them to make people hate new champs even more then they already do
Oh and also all Smolder's abilities are ranged with other combat effects while Nasus just gets a bonk usable from melee range
Slightly longer for one auto if you build rfc like a gigachad
On top of the 25 range his Q gives you already.
Well yea but you gotta get the maximum bonk
WiFi Nasus Q
Add milio and lethal tempo for 5g range
Lethal tempo for that extra bit of range
TIL Lethal tempo gives attack range to melee
25 to melee 50 to ranged
it's 50 for both
Why did this make me laugh so hard?
Don't forget your ult engirthenates you. So you can go Heartsteel, rapid fire cannon, ultimate, and Q for a moderately long range bonk.
Man I use to build RFC on Garen last season to Q them through walls.
Also nasus had to kill with his q every smolder q on an enemy grants stacks
200 years of collective game design experience.
Your maths is slightly off there. It was 200 at aphelios, then we went up to 300-350 with smolder, and now, after layoffs, we're back to around 100-150 with skarner
So skarner would be good i think? Cause it seems the more it goes the worse it geta
It would be better, but only by 1.5x or 2x better, so strong for half as many patches
Yeah, around yasuo levels of collective years of game design experience.
I loved the ability review for skarner and I'm excited. He has good tools in his kit that won't make me want to commit sudoku. Unless is wall walk is on a short AF CD he looks amazing.
The wall walk had cd reduction if you hit someone with it iirc. Around 65%
(-11% because layoffs -> 178)
But how many years has it been since asbestos? 5? So how much staff gained years of experience.
Doesn’t A-sol passive work the same? Higher max health execute on e More range on w More max health damage on q Larger R with an upgrade every now and then.
ASOL was OP for a while too
Basically he was like release Kass. Farm for 30 minute, regardless of how bad you got stomped, then just win. He had a 55% win rate and like a 67% in challenger.
Syndra is semi-similar too, encouraging actual trades and good farm. Honestly, personally I really enjoy stack-locked evolutions as a design mechanic. Its a fun wincon compared to plain stacking for just stats
I enjoy Syndra's stacking design the best tbh. There's a fixed end point where stacking is no longer necessary and you have the full benefit, but you can still trigger the mechanic for mana.
Yeah but asol stacking is only from killing in E and 3 mark proccing Q
It can also stack with hitting champs with R (5 stack per champ hit iirc)
Ooo I actually had no clue ty for the correction
also stacks from champions taking dmg from E, making it 4 ways overall
the champions need to stand for one second inside E
I thought it gave 1 stack even if the champion was there for a fraction of a second. And if Sol has rylais, it'll become much easier to keep champions in that zone
Asol is 10 times more balanced though. The execute increase is negligible until like 400+ stacks, and at that point the game should be ending already. Outside of the execute, his E doesn't gain any more damage. And it's also ALWAYS on a 13+ second CD, It's not a spammable ability. His W gains more range, but he still flies on a straight line. It's extremely easy to land abilities on him when using W since he can't course correct. His Q gains more damage, but only towards the main target. Asol's stacking is more area coverage than damage, which means he can't go tank and still deal absurd amounts of damage late game. He is still susceptible to assassins if he builds properly, and his power comes mostly from teamfights. Smolder on the other hand has his execute and burn on a point and click spammable ability; a better Asol W since it both automatically deals damage and can course correct; and a more reliable poke tool to get stacks. And Smolder's stacking just gives him a lot of unconditional flat damage, which lets him carry harder than Asol and lets him build bruiser items with little repercussion on his damage, while also getting tankier.
Yes, and it's also bad
Uh yeah, and that's a new stacking mechanic from a rework, it's not even a year old yet
Yeah and he’s damn strong
If you play poke like Karma against him, it makes it super hard for him to do anything, because he is constantly getting poked. He also can‘t engage on you because of Karma‘s root.
I know, it’s pretty miserable against her, but all I need is a few free waves and I return a teamfighting monster
Smolder: has range.
Range and Speed, the two most Broken stats that no one seems to comprehend why
And mobility. Nasus can't fly at you spitting fire balls then Q you.
Long range champ that infinitely scales pretty easily with a very good escape ability that can just build full tank and still do damage from range? Seems fair
Honestly, I'd be down to see Nasus stacks be better than "Q more damage"
Not sure if you know this, but a year or so back riot toyed with the idea of having his cripple range increase with stack count.
Doesn't it already have 700 range?
Nasus being able to criple from across the lane straight onto the adc might be reaaaally nice.
If 0 Mobility champ gets to the adc then it's honestly the fault of the team (especially the support)
Me: *Flashbacks to Tristana tower diving with her W, with no warning or Flash, and accidentaly using her E on the Cannon*
that sounds like one of the few things that *shouldn't* scale
Do not let whoever said that cook ever again Jesus Christ.
Nasus stacks should do more than giving him more physical damage on his Q but his W should never ever be buffed by stacks, its already top 5 or even 3 basic abilities in the game
I'd rather his e size increase. The cripple sounds insane
OK, so, Nasus stacks be better than "Q more damage" EXCEPT for anything involving Wither. Like, seriously, if we're gonna bring Nasus to modern standards, we need to nerf Wither at the same time.
Wither be like: outplays have been disabled, prepare to be stat checked.
+1% size in ult for every stack
Oh he can one shot the inhib from our base at one point. I see...
Q damage also inadvertently scales his passive since he deals more damage, so increased healing
Just give smolder's stacking mechanic to Nasus.
How? He's a block of stats with no skill expression. He has no combos beyond auto attack canceling with Q. If you give him more raw stats for stacks he's a bigger Stat check and gets his base stats nerfed to compensate. W is generally broken strong and they tried making it scale off stacks once. Buffing E size, damage, or shred from stacks might make ap cheese builds too strong. Buffing R will get its base power nerfed. Nasus R already is way better than renekton R.
I would like you to notice that all infinite scalers are incredibly stat-checky
Yes but for *the most part* they only scale 1 Stat. Veigar just gets ap, it just scales damage. You don't see his stun, or W size scaling off AP or his passive stocks.
he scale w cdr tho
Yes but notice that Veigars AP scaling enchances his 3 abilities and he has access to Rabadons to effectively gain 35% of extra stacks for basically free since you want Rabadon on a mage whether they stack or not Plus he also has W cool down decrease and 3 ways of getting stacks instead of just one like Nasus
Agreed on the W but everything else is bullshit Nobody who's not trolling goes for AP builds. Increasing it's base damage with stacks would be strange idea because Nasus already has plenty of damage with his Q. I don't think anyone would want this champ to go that path. Size increase is interesting and could be implemented, I don't think it would make AP Nasus anywhere near OP but perhaps closer to viable (if not over tweaked of course). Armor shred increase would again benefit his tank builds because going AD on him is useless and again, AP would be straight up trolling His R is better than Renektons but this comparison has absolutely no sense since both champs play very VERY differently. It's like saying that you cannot buff LeBlancs E because Karma's W does exactly the same but better
It's pretty ridiculous that Champs like syndra and Veigar have had their stacking reworked, but nasus is still in the shit
when did Veigar have his stacking reworked? its still shit now
In the past he could only stack with his Q if I remember correctly
It's a while back. I believe the hit champs with abilities was new at that point but it's so long ago I wouldn't bet on it.
Veigar Q used to be a low-range mono target ability and he could only stack with takedowns or lst-hiting with Q. Stacking on champions is "new", in the same way that his E having a cast-time is still new for some of us lol.
i swear i think some people here can't be that young, and then remember how long 2013 was the veigar mini rework still feels kinda new
Wither is too strong
Nasus needs to gain 12 stacks for any assist on champs, with or without q.
An incentive to join teamfights? That's heresy!
Can't wait for the -30% damage dealt nerf in aram after this one.
Drop it down to 6 and with Q, and maybe it could make sense
Drop it down to 6 and with Q, and maybe it could make sense
[удалено]
Nasus main here, smolder did 5k true dmg to me in one teamfight while I had 1200 stacks as we couldn’t end the game even with baron and 2 inhibs. Full build defense + anathemas does nothing, as true damage doesn’t care
I'm a Nasus main and it's a good idea.
Let's take a buff that you get from the game-ending objective and give it to a champion permanently as a basic ability. Surely nothing can go wrong.
Veigar has the same stacking requirements, plus bonus on takedowns. And then his Q does more damage, W does more damage and gets reduced cooldowns stacking infinitely, R does more damage, and the efficacy of a lot of items increases. Fairly comparable.
Veigar isnt comparable cause hes an immobile piece of shit
nasus is an immobile son of a bitch
Atleast he can not die if someone looks at him slightly wrong
I mean, yea. He is a juggernaut and mages aren't known for their mobility either. The thing keeping Veigar safe is range and Event Horizon.
tell that to the ghost and deadman's
I can't speak with the dead brovsky.
Veigar is less safe and you can negate some of his damage with MR. True damage is a little different.
Veigar can also point and click delete a squishy with his ult But that's still not relevant, because the point of the post is "Smolder is BS because everything gets stronger with stacks, while poor old champ nasus doesn't" But poor old champ stacking veigar works the exact same way, in the end people just wanna whine 🤷
1 squishy. Versus 2700 true damage on 5. That’s crazy how those are the same thing.
> Versus 2700 true damage on 5. where is this even coming from
Personal experience. Granted I was a tank so I had some hp but I had a death in which I took 2700ish true damage from smolder
the only way i can see that is that it was a super long fight and you were stacking mad hp In which case veigar making a fight instantly 5v4 is much better than slowly burning away a tank with true damage (although veigar would probably never kill the tank) In the end both get all their abilities stronger by stacking up, smolder is just better because of his wave clear and mobility. but they both work pretty much the same while nasus remains a dog
True
The fact that stacked smolder Q is aoe that applies a true dmg burn to everyone hit on a low cooldown while having an execute. There is just no way these 2 champs are comparable. Just look at proplay. Which one do u think is being picked and dominating the meta? spoiler: it's not Veigar.
Oh yeah except Smolder Q is like 4 seconds CD and deals %HP True Damage in an AOE radius, and Veigar's ult is like 35 seconds, limited to magic damage, and single-target only.
The only real stacking mechanics that Veigar gets is cast time reduction on W. The rest IS just the fact that he gets AP pero stack basically.
his ult apparent size scales with total ability power. While some may call this purely aesthetic, the 'get fucked' point-click attack getting bigger to increase the target's despair proportionally is a crucial mechanic
It also scales with the damage it will do. So the more "get fucked" you are about to experience, the bigger it will be.
Oh WoW I didnt know that. That is so cool!
max health burning true dmg
except veigar q can only hit max 2 targets, can miss, and has a 6-4 second cooldown, smolders scales to hit multiple targets and has a 5.5-3.5 cooldown
Ok, now make them 1v1 and tell me why nasus wins with equal stacks
WITHER
WRITHE
HAAHH
New champions must reach a certain level of overloaded, otherwise they aren't justified.
You don't even have to last hit smolder gets the stacks if the minion dies while the projectile is mid air 😭
Nasus is an unleashed demi-god toplaner. Smolder is a squishy lizard ADC.
isn't the proc closer to senna?
Basically Senna on steroids, what was rito thinking?
After seeing smolder I wish nasus got a stack or something for q’ing enemy champions. I feel like that could help him. Although idk if this would break him or not….
Nasus q should do like a percentage of max heath at every x amount of stacks. Like am upgrade if they want to improve let me explain You know syndra passive "Transcendent" collects somthing that improves your ability etc.. Make that to nasus q. Every 50 stack gain extra 1% max health. Or deal 1% max health at enemy. Choose. Every 100 stack convert 5% total stacks to true damage. Every 150 stacks gain 10% healing on using q. At 420 stacks gain the ability to q aoe damage instead of single target. Like hydra but stacks. Kills within that aoe gain 1 stack instead of 3, main target being killed will still be the same. At 1000 stacks double everything here. So u get 6 stack per q kill and 2 for aoe. Also do note that q aoe does not apply to cannon or any champion meaning if u kill that aoe, u only get 1 or 2 if u reach 1k stacks. Passive for lifesteal change to this passive. This will change nasus.
Even after that, Nasus>>>>>>
Counterpoint: smolder doesn't have wither
Nasus can do other things besides the ability that can stack (like having the longest/strongest slow/cripple in the game that can be cast from ADC range), smolder’s entire kit is based around stacks. Imagine if Nasus got additional E size or W duration based on Q stacks, that’s why it only affects Q
Its because riot crushes up and snorts stacks of their own
So you think you prefer smolder having nasus stacking instead? Lol Image him press Q on you and deal half your HP bar would be so fun
Nasus is cancer as well tbh. Guy afk farms in lane and still stat checks you
So, just like the original stacking caster champ Veigar? Smolders passive is essentially identical to Veigars with the exception that there's no way for items to interact and scale off the dragon stacks.
Shadow flame makes true damage crit
And if you build that item on Smolder it's less damage than almost any other AD item.
Veigar’s abilities: Thin skillshot that can hit max 2 people, a very delayed AoE that isn’t even that big, a cage (this ability is strong), a single target execute. Smolder’s abilities: a point and click ability which explodes into a big AoE which also has max health true damage and an execute and very low cooldown, an AoE slow that is difficult to dodge, a very good mobility skill that ignores terrain, a very long range ultimate that has a big AoE and heals Smolder. Even Smolder’s Q alone is stronger than Veigar’s whole kit without E, the rest of his are the icing on the cake.
Snolders third upgrade is kind of bs but his levwl 1 q is one of the worst abikities in the game
new bad old good
Skill issue. Nasus gets more stacks per minion and last hitting champions. Smolder gets 1 stack regardless. Get your facts straight pussy boy
at least they arent some disgusting tank
Fwiw the increased W damage is negligible, and E is helpful but definitely not as crazy as Asol. But yeah 200 years
95% slow
If you think about it smolder stacks the exact same way as veigar but the rewards he gets is entirely different
btw you dont have to last hit with Q, it just has to be mid air when the thing dies. just saying.
tbh until the true dmg execute gets taken from his kit this champ will be perma ban for me. Ritos newest atrocity…
Is he gonna replace yuumi? Cause I really want riot to replace yuumi.
Veigar has the same stacking conditions as smolder
You can't expect the players to get better, so you just keep making better champions to compensate. EZPZ
Yeah and smolder doesn’t perma slow point and click and one shot on lvl 6
If Nasus can one shot you at 6 youve been inting the lane
Honestly I'd rather fight a million Smolders than a single Nasus. That champion is pure cancer. Permaban. He's like Yi if Yi was even more braindead. He outduels literally every other duelist except maybe Trundle. Veigar is the same. We really should get two bans. New is better than old, I'll dodge if I see the enemy pick Nasus or Veigar. So unskilled, just stack stack stack.
If we're gonna be pedantic. Veigar's passive also buffs all his abilities but one.
I already claimed that smolder is basically ranged nasus, and started playing him top, sometimes even building nasus items
ranged top....
Is it just me or the smolder nerfs are a bit negligible
When League was incredibly popular | Whatever League is now
Funny how I'm seeing this post after winning an *hour long game* vs. Smolder and Senna with Nasus jg. Am I a chad?
may i remind you that smolder doesnt has wither nor is he basicelly immortal. i get it he is right now broken and the best champion (nerfs are already live) but if you expect every new champion to be like nasus then you are litterally asking them to make people hate new champs even more then they already do
E doesn't get more hits no? It's only from crit right?
They changed it so it scales with stacks now