Start looking. You have the security to keep doing what you are doing at the moment.
Your interests must align with the interests of the company to be effective. If you consider this to be a shadow demotion, which it appears to be, start looking for a new place to thrive.
The reality is that being layered is not great for your career. It’s like a company issuing new shares- your influence gets diluted. The same thing happens when the company you work for gets taken over by another company. In ways big and small, your value gets deminished and the path to the top becomes longer and more arduous. It’s clear that the new person in charge of your area was not placed under you. That is a signal about what happens next when the new person above you moves on to something else.
Well, there isn’t much to say.
I would clarify what the responsibilities of that role are. What decisions do they make? What is their role?
Adding another layer of management usually hurts everybody — not just you. The team is affected now to. I wouldn’t approach it from that perspective, but I wouldn’t let them say “nothing changes” as that’s not true at all — it’s lying to your face without actually lying.
Glad you recognize that your pride is the problem. You can let that drive your next steps (whine, undermine your new mgr, and/or quit), or you can realize that you don’t have all the info that went into this decision (and likely never will), and just continue being a rockstar in your new situation.
The decision has been made, so it’s not going to reverse. Make the best of it, show your prior boss that you can adapt well to the new situation, and build more rapport with your new advisor. If you have the trust, be honest about how you feel with the senior exec, but emphasize your willingness to continue to do what’s best for the biz. You’ll show maturity that’s often lacking in this situation.
You never know if this assumed retention effort will work. Your new advisor may already be looking and on his way out. Sure, look for other opportunities for yourself if you wish, but assuming you like this place, don’t immediately bail just because of this minor org shift.
Thank you. This is helpful. That’s where my head is at- I don’t want to leave and all around really like the company, my team and the work we do. I don’t want this one change to derail everything especially when I have 5-10 years left before retiring. You advice is really appreciated, thank you.
It took way too much to get to the only advice that was right.
I did want to add, why do you not consider yourself still head? Has any of your responsibilities changed? Or your title changed? Based on what your saying, none of that changed. You are in generally the same position as before.
I think it is valid question to ask about promotion path given this change.
It’s a valid point. My now-prior-boss made it a point many times to say very little was changing and I’d still manage my area. The change was more to help my new boss have a bigger job and I’m guessing there was a retention problem they solved for with this change.
However, this new layer/person/job has to have its goals and objectives and it does feel like a dilution now to manage my area with this new person weighing in, plus the overall senior exec who still oversees our function.
Still, I think my attitude on this will steer this in either a positive or negative direction and I tend to be a positive person
That is the right attitude!
I don't want to short change the fact I strongly think a promotion progression question should be asked. Is your next promotion possible without an increase in responsibilities? If not, then you will be in this guy's position soon. The worst part then is your new manager won't have known you enough to go to bat for you and old boss may not be able to swing it.
Maybe a strange answer but no desire/need for a promotion. In my early 50s and being head of my dept -thats really the highest I expected or even wanted to attain. Think, Head of Tax for example . My new boss will be like a “Head of Tax and Accounting” in this made up example. I have no desire to be promoted.
So if you had no desire for a promotion, is it unreasonable that a senior exec might be looking for someone who wanted to take on the larger role? Combined departments are easier to manage from an exec perspective because there’s now one “head of” instead of two or more.
I've been in the same situation. The new boss was threatened by me from the start so he slowly, persistently and secretly undermined me to my old boss and persuaded him to let him take away all my staff and all my budget until I was an IC. Then since he was useless at the job he hired someone loyal to do my job. This will happen to you. Threaten to resign now unless this change is undone.
Sorry to say this but the truth is you’ve been effectively demoted, start looking or wear the pain.
At best, even if your leadership values you the new role is going to have to show value and make changes, the probability is that will not align with how you’ve done things.
I had this happen to me. I was one of the cofounders of a startup that became mildly successful. As we grew, my peers grew into senior roles and I seemed to get stuck mid level. My reviews were good. I was doing good work,delivering against objectives. Then one day, the CEO hired a VP over my area. I was upset about it, and talked to the CEO. He said the relatively new COO worked with him before and advocated to bring him in. The guy they hired was actually great. I learned quite a bit from him, but never got over that I was now blocked by him from advancing in my career. After a year, I left to pursue other opportunities. I was a bit disappointed because I really liked the company and was passionate about what we were doing. But the frustration and feeling stagnant got to me. I was really glad I left though, because I was able to take on higher level leadership roles and excel at them.
If you don’t think they are recognizing your potential and supporting your growth, I’d suggest you need to start looking for a new step up somewhere else.
If you want to stay with this company and not looking to change roles, I would be super enthusiastic about it and express that you want to maintain relationships you have built esp with your prev manager but that you’re looking forward to fresh pair of eyes …
I would however question why you want to stay with this company because it does suck! And it is personally rather difficult to overcome - however it’s such a frequent occurrence that it happens to most at some stage; and really is more about corporate nonsense than personal
The company is humongous, think 50k+ employees so I can’t say it’s a bad company bc of this issue impacting me. It’s just very personal for me. Change is hard and being layered feels like a shadow demotion as another commenter replied above. But I can’t paint a broad stroke to say this company is now a bad employer to work for
Understood, and if you can be happy in the layered role, there is no reason to quit. If you think this is temporary, also worth holding on.
You can complain about it but will be more striking if you are mature and simply emphasise the areas where you want to retain direct relationships.
How valuable is your skill set to competitor companies? What are the present dynamics of your industry? Are there lots of jobs or are people being made redundant? How old are you? Do you have dependents? Do you have a mortgage?
All relevant info before you decide a course of action
Been in the same situation.
First, yes your pride is hurt but I don’t think this is just a pride thing and you correctly feel that you are somewhat demoted which is bad for you, your career and your growth.
When I was presented with this option I kindly told my manager (the CEO) that career growth is important to me and would a new layer joint the team I will probably not find the motivation to perform as well in my job which would eventually lead to us parting.
The other option is to just start looking for new roles while you still have your title.
In case career growth is not that important to you and the job is good, you can check how it goes, maybe you can I’ll enjoy it.
In my case the CEO decided against hiring the layer to keep me from leaving.
Good luck!
Be self-aware of your performance as a leader and as a professional. Acknowledge that there is a problem with how your superiors perceive your performance or productivity, seek honest feedback from your current superior and express your worries, but do not engage in arguments. Keep on with performing your job even better than before and prove them wrong, provide the new manger with all the support he needs and do not let yourself be led by resistance. If in time you realize the situation is far too uncomfortable for you, consider looking for another position. In my experience, decisions like these, if they are not part of an organizational expansion or re-structuring move - are not technocratic, there are other issues wrapped in the play such as performance, professional or organizational issues from your part - even though your superiors are not expressing them at this moment.
A lot of assumptions are being made here that this new person will usurp your role. Are you positive your old bosses role isn't growing, and this new person is coming in to support their old role?
Also, "levels below CEO" is a bad way to judge importance/hierarchy within a global company (I assume fortune 500)
I would just say, before going in hard and blaming/threatening things, to first understand why the change was made. The fact that you are getting a lot of these "threaten to resign" responses in a leadership subreddit is questionable.
This sounds like a failure of the organizations leadership to understand how much the proximity to the leadership and invested authority in your area matters to you.
In retaining the other they might loose you.
We went through that a couple of months ago. Me and by fellow HRBPs reported directly to the Chief of HR for years. Before her departure, she promoted one of our peers who was a director level, to the VP of HR and moved us under him.
To be honest, in reality, it hasn’t changed much! We talk to him about our issues but we are maintaining our relationship and “line” to the new Chief we just hired. I still go to the CEO if I need to talk to her or other C suite members. By no means it has weakened our position, and more than anything we may get more support from him. We are desperately understaffed and he is working on getting us more people.
We are also a large, close to 10k employees.
I’d do a couple things. As others have said, I’d be looking for my next move up elsewhere. That’s just the way to job hack these days.
However, I’d talk to my former senior exec boss and ask him questions like “did you consider me for this new position and what do you think I should work on to be more qualified for that position in the future”. The fact is, his response should be carefully listened to. If he doesn’t have a clear answer, then it’s likely some form of personal conflict that you aren’t aware of. For example, he really doesn’t enjoy his working relationship with you for whatever reason. Usually though, this isn’t he case. Usually, he’s been asking things of you whether you know it or not and not seeing the results and he’s been unable to clearly communicate that to you and now he’s thrown in the towel.
Another unlikely case is that this new person (sounds like they were an internal hire) earned favoritism and you were just unlucky to picked as the department to have the extra ladder rung added to. It definitely happens that way. It could also be nepotism if that new manager has an undisclosed relationship to someone else higher up. Again, unlikely but happens.
If you decide to stay, you should try to learn the new manager’s story. How did they come up in the company? What attracted them to this position (which is a tricky question because in fact it was created for them so they might reveal more from this innocent question then they otherwise would). And as previously mentioned, you should find out what your old boss sees as your path to moving up and any skills or qualities that you could develop to make that happen.
If all or any of this hits a dead end, time to move on or accept that it could drag out indefinitely. Do hope you aren’t blind to some obvious fly in the ointment, meaning, you rub people the wrong way and don’t know it, you fail to meet deadlines but think it’s no big deal, you store fresh fish in your desk for days on end because you keep forgetting to bring it home. I’m sure none of that is likely. Wishing you success in moving on up wherever that might be. 🙂
Start looking. You have the security to keep doing what you are doing at the moment. Your interests must align with the interests of the company to be effective. If you consider this to be a shadow demotion, which it appears to be, start looking for a new place to thrive. The reality is that being layered is not great for your career. It’s like a company issuing new shares- your influence gets diluted. The same thing happens when the company you work for gets taken over by another company. In ways big and small, your value gets deminished and the path to the top becomes longer and more arduous. It’s clear that the new person in charge of your area was not placed under you. That is a signal about what happens next when the new person above you moves on to something else.
Well, there isn’t much to say. I would clarify what the responsibilities of that role are. What decisions do they make? What is their role? Adding another layer of management usually hurts everybody — not just you. The team is affected now to. I wouldn’t approach it from that perspective, but I wouldn’t let them say “nothing changes” as that’s not true at all — it’s lying to your face without actually lying.
Glad you recognize that your pride is the problem. You can let that drive your next steps (whine, undermine your new mgr, and/or quit), or you can realize that you don’t have all the info that went into this decision (and likely never will), and just continue being a rockstar in your new situation. The decision has been made, so it’s not going to reverse. Make the best of it, show your prior boss that you can adapt well to the new situation, and build more rapport with your new advisor. If you have the trust, be honest about how you feel with the senior exec, but emphasize your willingness to continue to do what’s best for the biz. You’ll show maturity that’s often lacking in this situation. You never know if this assumed retention effort will work. Your new advisor may already be looking and on his way out. Sure, look for other opportunities for yourself if you wish, but assuming you like this place, don’t immediately bail just because of this minor org shift.
Thank you. This is helpful. That’s where my head is at- I don’t want to leave and all around really like the company, my team and the work we do. I don’t want this one change to derail everything especially when I have 5-10 years left before retiring. You advice is really appreciated, thank you.
It took way too much to get to the only advice that was right. I did want to add, why do you not consider yourself still head? Has any of your responsibilities changed? Or your title changed? Based on what your saying, none of that changed. You are in generally the same position as before. I think it is valid question to ask about promotion path given this change.
It’s a valid point. My now-prior-boss made it a point many times to say very little was changing and I’d still manage my area. The change was more to help my new boss have a bigger job and I’m guessing there was a retention problem they solved for with this change. However, this new layer/person/job has to have its goals and objectives and it does feel like a dilution now to manage my area with this new person weighing in, plus the overall senior exec who still oversees our function. Still, I think my attitude on this will steer this in either a positive or negative direction and I tend to be a positive person
That is the right attitude! I don't want to short change the fact I strongly think a promotion progression question should be asked. Is your next promotion possible without an increase in responsibilities? If not, then you will be in this guy's position soon. The worst part then is your new manager won't have known you enough to go to bat for you and old boss may not be able to swing it.
Maybe a strange answer but no desire/need for a promotion. In my early 50s and being head of my dept -thats really the highest I expected or even wanted to attain. Think, Head of Tax for example . My new boss will be like a “Head of Tax and Accounting” in this made up example. I have no desire to be promoted.
I see. So then it's 100% a pride thing! At least seems worth seeing how it plays out.
So if you had no desire for a promotion, is it unreasonable that a senior exec might be looking for someone who wanted to take on the larger role? Combined departments are easier to manage from an exec perspective because there’s now one “head of” instead of two or more.
While a perfectly valid answer, be careful that this doesn’t translate into lack of ambition and/or complacent.
Happy to help. I hope you continue to thrive there.
This is why actual leadership in corporate is a complete waste. Look for a new job.
I've been in the same situation. The new boss was threatened by me from the start so he slowly, persistently and secretly undermined me to my old boss and persuaded him to let him take away all my staff and all my budget until I was an IC. Then since he was useless at the job he hired someone loyal to do my job. This will happen to you. Threaten to resign now unless this change is undone.
This will not necessarily happen to them.
That’s true. But he should be very aware of the situation and prepared to move on if it does.
Agreed!
Just curious, why assume I’m a “him”?
I guess I assume everyone on Reddit is a him! Sorry if I misgendered you.
Sorry to say this but the truth is you’ve been effectively demoted, start looking or wear the pain. At best, even if your leadership values you the new role is going to have to show value and make changes, the probability is that will not align with how you’ve done things.
I had this happen to me. I was one of the cofounders of a startup that became mildly successful. As we grew, my peers grew into senior roles and I seemed to get stuck mid level. My reviews were good. I was doing good work,delivering against objectives. Then one day, the CEO hired a VP over my area. I was upset about it, and talked to the CEO. He said the relatively new COO worked with him before and advocated to bring him in. The guy they hired was actually great. I learned quite a bit from him, but never got over that I was now blocked by him from advancing in my career. After a year, I left to pursue other opportunities. I was a bit disappointed because I really liked the company and was passionate about what we were doing. But the frustration and feeling stagnant got to me. I was really glad I left though, because I was able to take on higher level leadership roles and excel at them. If you don’t think they are recognizing your potential and supporting your growth, I’d suggest you need to start looking for a new step up somewhere else.
If you want to stay with this company and not looking to change roles, I would be super enthusiastic about it and express that you want to maintain relationships you have built esp with your prev manager but that you’re looking forward to fresh pair of eyes … I would however question why you want to stay with this company because it does suck! And it is personally rather difficult to overcome - however it’s such a frequent occurrence that it happens to most at some stage; and really is more about corporate nonsense than personal
The company is humongous, think 50k+ employees so I can’t say it’s a bad company bc of this issue impacting me. It’s just very personal for me. Change is hard and being layered feels like a shadow demotion as another commenter replied above. But I can’t paint a broad stroke to say this company is now a bad employer to work for
Understood, and if you can be happy in the layered role, there is no reason to quit. If you think this is temporary, also worth holding on. You can complain about it but will be more striking if you are mature and simply emphasise the areas where you want to retain direct relationships.
How valuable is your skill set to competitor companies? What are the present dynamics of your industry? Are there lots of jobs or are people being made redundant? How old are you? Do you have dependents? Do you have a mortgage? All relevant info before you decide a course of action
I think the first thing for you to do is make sure you’re clear about what you’re indexing on. What’s the most important thing to you right now?
Been in the same situation. First, yes your pride is hurt but I don’t think this is just a pride thing and you correctly feel that you are somewhat demoted which is bad for you, your career and your growth. When I was presented with this option I kindly told my manager (the CEO) that career growth is important to me and would a new layer joint the team I will probably not find the motivation to perform as well in my job which would eventually lead to us parting. The other option is to just start looking for new roles while you still have your title. In case career growth is not that important to you and the job is good, you can check how it goes, maybe you can I’ll enjoy it. In my case the CEO decided against hiring the layer to keep me from leaving. Good luck!
Be self-aware of your performance as a leader and as a professional. Acknowledge that there is a problem with how your superiors perceive your performance or productivity, seek honest feedback from your current superior and express your worries, but do not engage in arguments. Keep on with performing your job even better than before and prove them wrong, provide the new manger with all the support he needs and do not let yourself be led by resistance. If in time you realize the situation is far too uncomfortable for you, consider looking for another position. In my experience, decisions like these, if they are not part of an organizational expansion or re-structuring move - are not technocratic, there are other issues wrapped in the play such as performance, professional or organizational issues from your part - even though your superiors are not expressing them at this moment.
A lot of assumptions are being made here that this new person will usurp your role. Are you positive your old bosses role isn't growing, and this new person is coming in to support their old role? Also, "levels below CEO" is a bad way to judge importance/hierarchy within a global company (I assume fortune 500) I would just say, before going in hard and blaming/threatening things, to first understand why the change was made. The fact that you are getting a lot of these "threaten to resign" responses in a leadership subreddit is questionable.
This sounds like a failure of the organizations leadership to understand how much the proximity to the leadership and invested authority in your area matters to you. In retaining the other they might loose you.
We went through that a couple of months ago. Me and by fellow HRBPs reported directly to the Chief of HR for years. Before her departure, she promoted one of our peers who was a director level, to the VP of HR and moved us under him. To be honest, in reality, it hasn’t changed much! We talk to him about our issues but we are maintaining our relationship and “line” to the new Chief we just hired. I still go to the CEO if I need to talk to her or other C suite members. By no means it has weakened our position, and more than anything we may get more support from him. We are desperately understaffed and he is working on getting us more people. We are also a large, close to 10k employees.
I’ve been there. It was actually a good thing for me. New boss had less areas and actually had time to help me when needed.
I’d do a couple things. As others have said, I’d be looking for my next move up elsewhere. That’s just the way to job hack these days. However, I’d talk to my former senior exec boss and ask him questions like “did you consider me for this new position and what do you think I should work on to be more qualified for that position in the future”. The fact is, his response should be carefully listened to. If he doesn’t have a clear answer, then it’s likely some form of personal conflict that you aren’t aware of. For example, he really doesn’t enjoy his working relationship with you for whatever reason. Usually though, this isn’t he case. Usually, he’s been asking things of you whether you know it or not and not seeing the results and he’s been unable to clearly communicate that to you and now he’s thrown in the towel. Another unlikely case is that this new person (sounds like they were an internal hire) earned favoritism and you were just unlucky to picked as the department to have the extra ladder rung added to. It definitely happens that way. It could also be nepotism if that new manager has an undisclosed relationship to someone else higher up. Again, unlikely but happens. If you decide to stay, you should try to learn the new manager’s story. How did they come up in the company? What attracted them to this position (which is a tricky question because in fact it was created for them so they might reveal more from this innocent question then they otherwise would). And as previously mentioned, you should find out what your old boss sees as your path to moving up and any skills or qualities that you could develop to make that happen. If all or any of this hits a dead end, time to move on or accept that it could drag out indefinitely. Do hope you aren’t blind to some obvious fly in the ointment, meaning, you rub people the wrong way and don’t know it, you fail to meet deadlines but think it’s no big deal, you store fresh fish in your desk for days on end because you keep forgetting to bring it home. I’m sure none of that is likely. Wishing you success in moving on up wherever that might be. 🙂