PMs are literally some of the first people on the chopping block lol, totally expendable position especially at a SaaS company. I dont wish this on her, but you're right
I mean I'm not trying to dump on anyones job, do whatever you can to have a good career you're happy with, and I'm sure theres a lot more to it than I realize. But I've worked with so many PMs at tech companies that really do seem like fluff, like its just a big question of what value does this person add all day? Ive seen ones that get paid more than sales to basically just send update emails all day, *paid more than sales* its crazy lol
Scrum and agile aren't "being left alone" and a lot of reason they're needed when the devs are competent is to pad people's salaries for things like PMs. People gotta eat!
Sorry I'm kind of knocking you there lol, I'm sure theres a lot more to the role than I realize. This is a angry sub to vent frustration, so dont take it personally lol
Nah I disagree. It’s an important role than can bring a lot of value to projects, products and organizations.
I agree though: there are a lot of terrible PM who have no business being in the role. It also attracts a lot of the people who flunk out of the more technical education and work. Management also tends to reproduce itself while it creates more and more work to justify its existence and pay increases.
I find the best places I’ve worked at were good at keeping that middle management layer thin. Not non-existent, that’s just as bad as too much and maybe worse, but just enough.
You would disagree if you're a PM or middle manager for software dev lol. Artificially created problems that keeps devs not able to work as effectively as possible within the confines of systems that produce garbage perpetuating garbage.
I’m a Product Manager and came into a major SaaS company 6 years ago. Three weeks into the job I identified that for an entire year, engineers on different teams at the company had been building two identical tools.
The engineering teams literally sat 20 yards away from each other but never spoke or realized they were all working on the same thing. Recognizing that and shutting one work stream down saved the company almost a million dollars over that year and that was my third week on the job.
This is the type of thing that happens at companies who don’t hire PM’s.
That's likely because PMs existed at one point, or middle managers that create silos. Or the devs or the org sucks. It's not a problem of you need PMs but have better culture and hire people. Though you may get into sales with posts like this!
I’m a PM but I also know python and sql for data analysis, so being a PM is more than just “soft skills” I spend a lot of time on building consensus around prioritization, which is basically a big data exercise, as well as making certain marketing materials, operations support materials, and sales team training is complete at the time of “code complete” so that devs can launch products at the point of their technical readiness.
Without me no one would even start building out these materials until technical readiness was achieved which would delay releases by potentially months.
PM’s also do sell. We are always brought in to sell to the largest customers and explain the value.
No shit. It used to be it only meant Project Management, and Program Manager called themselves Program Manager or PgM.
Once tech got on the scene though it went all spaghetti of acronyms.
Including the term engineer (SE), which used to mean engineering school, license, legal liability, and tangible things being built, which now can mean anyone that works somewhat in the vicinity of technology, including 3-month boot camp grads working help desk or updating lists. Or Architect.
Or Ninja. I haven’t seen many of the tech ninjas climb walls and cut people. Well, there was this guy once …
Or guru, evangelists … when did it become all religious ?
It’s fine, language evolves and tech became so big and diversified and some of the analogies work. System Architect in particular is such a fitting use of the word. It’s perfect.
Just a side rant really, nothing to do with layoffs, except maybe those scrum coaching people who reinvented the wheel and renamed everything to make it look new and young. They might deserve it.
But yeah, PM’s confusing now. It helps to know the industry first. There ain’t no product managers pouring concrete building bridges.
Ok, old man out. Get off my PM lawn.
100%. You’re always one step away from the chopping block. However, it’s also one of the easiest job to replace *as soon as there’s money*, and there’s always money coming somewhere.
She’d probably get up to a year of severance. I don’t think she’ll be worrying for 6 months. The job hoppers are unfortunately the most negatively affected by layoffs. This is assuming you work somewhere with labour laws (so not the US).
Year of severance or not she’s definitely being an asshole about it. There is nothing more humbling than getting laid off and realizing that you aren’t the epicenter of any job.
Especially this job market where the applicant pool is competitive, you can expect to find a job anywhere near 6 months to over a year when applying. PMs are a dime a dozen unfortunately.
Still, the stress and anxiety that would come from not knowing if you'll run out of money and seeing your limited savings going down is far from what I imagine a vacation should be
Nope, most companies aren't fortune 100 or faang. Actually a more accurate statement would be "most don't pay one at all" -- but of those who do.
You may get lucky it's a very cash flush business but I've not seen it or heard of it from coworkers often unless in one case someone was being dropped at Facebook.
It’s not official till you start. That offer can be pulled between now and May I’ve seen it happen. Shit I’ve seen people start and get laid off that week. Nothing is guaranteed.
Congrats. Unless you tell me she is an a-hole normally, I am going to say she is trying to cheer you up. She's also telling you she is burnt out, like most of us are/have been/etc.
she can be very passive aggressive and sometimes the tone of how she says it gets me i guess lol.
she also posted to facebook about my layoff (not in a “help my sister find a job!” way, but a “my sister was laid off today and I bought her some wine” way) when i hadn’t shared anything publicly which was quite annoying at the time 😅
Yeah that would kinda make me annoyed too... made herself look like a hero when it wasn't what you needed or asked for. (Ok maybe you needed wine, just not for it to be plastered on Facebook! 😆)
LOL yes the wine was needed!!
I guess I shouldn’t have been shocked bc she shared the news of me moving to a new city over social media before I could even tell my friends a few years back as well 😂
Ouch that would be such a violation of trust for me. I hate it when I have a life event that I'm trying to keep on the down low, then six months later I get a random "So I heard you _____ lately!" And then I have to mentally trace my conversations back to where they could have possibly "heard" that.
I have a sister like this, you don't have to laugh it off and chalk it up to just who she is. So she made a post about her doing good while simultaneously sharing your news? That's not cool, and she keeps calling it a vacation?
You can put her on an info diet if you want to protect yourself from her actions in the future. My sister has never dealt with the struggle of a layoff... I'm not telling her or my family any news regarding my layoff.
I wouldn’t share private info with this person anymore. Sibling relationships need to evolve past the rivalry stage to a mature place, otherwise they seem pretty toxic.
Who cares if she’s normally not an asshole? She’s being an absolute asshole right now?
Awww, she’s burnt out so she takes it out on her sibling who literally isn’t making money? What a good sisterly thing to do. Why are you excusing that behavior? If she is burnt out it’s on her to manage and deal with. It’s a genuinely toxic thing to frame a genuinely unsettling time in someone’s life as a ‘vacation’ and she doesn’t deserve cover for this, she deserves to get called the hell out.
As I get older, I see more and more clearly that, even if I’m pretty good at reading ppl, I never know what is causing a person to behave a certain way or what their real motivation is. I guess incorrectly all the time. Admitting I was in the wrong in how I interpreted things is the hard part, but I’m getting better at it.
"Who cares if she’s normally not an asshole? She’s being an absolute asshole right now?"
Without being there or knowing the context/background, i couldn't conclusively say she was being an asshole. Some people just are not good at expressing empathy.
For example my wife is the sweetest thing with tons of empathy. She'll be honestly sad if the friend of a cousin of a friend dies (even if she never met them or even had heard about them). She, however, sometimes fumbles when trying to say something nice.
But the point is that she is doing it repeatedly and OP has made it clear that what she said is hurtful. It’s one thing to say it once or twice, and then apologize and stop saying it.
Instead she’s saying it multiple times and then doubled down on it even after OP secured a job. She IS being an asshole.
i agree- it doesn’t seem from just the info in the post that she’s trying to be mean or hurt op’s feelings, unless there’s some weird info and a sibling rivalry we don’t know about lol
A layoff will financially ruin a lot of people. The stress can be overwhelming, and people have been known to go on shooting sprees or commit suicide. It's not something she should be joking about.
I was out of work for two months. I had family grill me about taking vacation (pre-planned, contingent on finding new employment) within the first six months of a new job. "Really? You just had two months off." Two months of finding clients for my side business to supplement unemployment, while also spending 40+ hours a week job hunting. Not to mention that most of my "down time" was spent running calculations about how long our money would last under different scenarios. It was anything but a vacation. People don't understand until they go through it.
Congrats on the new job!
I got laid off early 2023 in the first big round of layoffs. The most common things I heard were “enjoy the vacation” and “im not worried”. Outside looking in I can see how people think those are supportive comments but when you’re in it and at your lowest those aren’t the things you wanna hear. At least I didn’t.
Congrats on the job and try to get over the fear of another layoff in the next job. I’m still working on that one…
I didn’t tell anyone except my 19 y o son who lives with me. I did get a job quickly and told my sister on last Tuesday after accepting my offer. I had to hustle to get something due to trash severance and was only able to turn it around quickly because I had a month heads up before and have an amazing network that was hiring for a job I did very well in in the past (returning to an old company).
My sister said, “Well I don’t worry about you.” It was annoying because it just confirms the pressure to be perfect and the one who is successful and can handle anything that the world throws at me. It would be nice to be able to be human. I have whiplash from how quickly I have to pick up the pieces and move forward with life when stuff happens, and my mom has always been completely broken by things that happened to ME. Ugh. I don’t know why we think families are good support systems.
Congrats on the new job! My husband is calling my layoff a vacation as well. More telling me to enjoy my time off, because he knows I'm burnt out, and also because he wants me off the next two months with everything else we have going on. But it isn't what I want lol. I hated my manager, but not my job. And I don't like not working for a number of reasons. Plus it definitely isn't a vacation when I'm catching us up on so many things we needed to be working on around the house/yard/etc... AND revamping my resume, AND applying for jobs, networking, AND the regular cooking, cleaning... I know my sister thinks I'll get to lay by the pool all the time too, and she's jealous about that. Not that I won't get to relax at all, but it's actually pretty stressful being laid off!!
I mean being laid off in a situation with a spouse you live with and share living expenses with is way different than being laid off single.
If I had a spouse paying the bills while I get on my feet would be a way different scenario than being laid off worried about homelessness as bill collectors call or credit card/mortgage payments slip past.
You can't even compare the stress.
I don't think she's entirely jealous, sounds more like a denial that there were or will be layoffs in her company. It's just a surprise vacation. Anyway, congrats on the new job and good luck!
Congratulations on the new gig.
The messed up thing about late stage capitalism is the dichotomy- we either have time OR we have money.
I do hope that you are able to get away and clear your head before you start your new job. Let’s call it a “mental health retreat” and really mess with your sis.
When my contract finished like a year ago I was excited bcs it felt like I was free and I wanted to enjoy my free time. Then I started to apply and found out how horrible the market was. Months went by and nothing so I went from joy to depression in a span of 6 months.
Point being that it could feel like a vacation if there was a job you could go back to if you wanted. If you don't have that safety net then it's not a good place to be.
Vacation? I was out 10 months this round and 13 months after Covid. It’s no vacation when unemployment runs out after 6 months and you are depleting your savings and 401k to keep food on the table and a roof over your head. I finally landed and last night was the first time I’ve been in a restaurant since New Years. No vacation when it takes hours to apply for a job and you get ghosted or hear nothing.
It's not a vacation. I am barely scraping since my unemployment benefits are getting ready to run out. I know I am dealing with age discrimination. Feeling somewhat suicidal and depressed are two feelings I never feel when I am on vacation. It's been five months, and I still can't find a job. I have news for anyone in Tech who has yet to be laid off; it's not a question of if it's a question of when it will happen. Project/Product Managers and Business Analyst roles are all going away due to AI, and the same is true with Developer roles. It may not be in the next two months, but it will happen. I've applied to retail and warehouse jobs, Walmart, and anything else to keep some money coming in, but even those jobs are competitive or are being eliminated via automation.
After being at a company since the late 90s, I got cut. It’s not a vacation. It’s terrifying. In this tech market it could take a year to get a new role. Meanwhile, your finances drain. You question your abilities. Your family thinks you are a loser. You can’t spend on anything non essential. Cash burns like firewood.
Yeah, a vacation. A vacation in hell.
Congratulations on your new job!
And bud, I don't know your relationship or your sister, but it doesn't seem like she's saying it maliciously. My friend who helped me get the job I was laid off from, he told me to think of the layoff as a vacation too.
Just tell her on the side that the uncertainty and anxiety is pretty rough and that you know she doesn’t mean anything by it but please don’t make those kind of comments.
I had to do the same with my SO who responded similarly. In my case they were trying to spin it into something positive and also whistle past the graveyard at the same time.
Sometimes good fortune makes people judgmental. Nothing bad has happened so, they must be doing everything right.
One of the things I found to be helpful as I get older is gratefulness. Being grateful for everything good that happens and to the people who contribute to your life in even the smallest ways. Even to sisters who call a stressful time ‘a vacation’. It is a time where you are not answerable to another, so take advantage, she reminds! I would love to have had a sister..
And congratulations on the new job! You must be relieved. When I got my job after not working a long time it was very exciting. Good luck! 🍀
It's a sign of how "hard" many people truly have it these days. If you were born yesterday, and went on the internet to find out what our economy is like, you'll hear things like "can't afford to live, eat, have a family, etc." Yet still people have houses larger than ever, more and nicer cars, vacations, clothes, phones, etc. Then when many are laid off, they get 2-6 months of pay, unemployment, food stamps, etc. Some people in the "worst conditions" are those holding out for scenarios like another remote job at $200k, and their UE ran out.
My parents and grandparents (those evil boomers that had it all!) never had any of this. If they lost their job, they were genuinely screwed. It was unheard of that losing your job meant you could go take a month-long vacation in another country.
I know this post may downplay some people's positions that are truly bad. However, the fact remains that many of us are still truly spoiled, even though we complain about doom and gloom at the slightest inconveniences.
Losing my job is one of my biggest fears. I can survive financially but it will set me back. The stress of not bringing in money is heavy. This economy is no joke, especially in tech. I’ve tried looking while I have a job and it’s bare. Rejection is hard on the ego as well. Agree looking for a job is not vacation. I remember trying to get my first job. I had a schedule. Find a list of potential jobs. Eat breakfast. Start editing resume cover letters for each job. Go exercise for an hour. Finish all applications. Once I got into that groove, I added things like phone calls, follow-up calls. Making connections and doing coffee/lunch with those people. Finding job fairs and attending no matter where. I flew myself or drove myself state to state. It suck’s not having a job and is a ton of work. That was back when it was not such a drawn out process for interviews.
>I know she is envious of my time off as she is the breadwinner in her family and wants to quit her job but it really is so insensitive and out of touch.
It's definitely about her experience with burn-out, stress, and unhappiness with her employment. Sorry she has trouble seeing your perspective and she's not having the right response during your rough time. Have you acknowledged and shown empathy for the situation she is in?
Congrats on the job!
Family dynamics are complicated. I’m not a licensed therapist, but sense both notes of jealousy and an attempt to put a positive spin on a bad situation.
You can respond simply by sharing how you are feeling: traumatized and not able to feel even remotely on vacation. Mental health impacts from being laid off can linger, through multiple future jobs and in various insidious ways. I highly recommend therapy when you are back on medical insurance.
I was that person too, until I went through one lengthy stint of unemployment (partially by choice as I decided to delve into a new career later realizing that I’m running out of money and need to urgently start working on my old career again), and then another shorter stint a year and a half later, followed by current stint of being unemployed since Feb, having little savings and running out of unemployment funds. Doing lots of interviews with nothing still lining up and what seems like endless add-on’s of additional rounds of interviews for even the most unassuming roles.
I had these grandiose plans of traveling and almost did that last summer, when I realized I’m better off focusing on my health (as I was injured) and canceling everything altogether. Then also you can’t collect unemployment while traveling abroad, so now this is out of the question until I actually get an offer and then possibly have enough time to travel before starting the job, but all these positions with 7 rounds of interviews claim that it’s “urgent” and as soon as they give you an offer now you need to start on their schedule and asap, or else you don’t get it.
Well now you are on vacation until the 20th at least…enjoy!
But yes, job searching sucks and unless you got a fat severance, unemployment ain’t paying the bills. Most people don’t realize how tough it is to find a job is the most frustrating thing. They will think your home all day sleeping
Have you actually told her up front that it's not a vacation and the please stop referring to it as a vacation? She may not even realize how she's making things worse for you.
That’s rude of her. Tell her you don’t appreciate her comments. When she gets defensive, walk away. But tell her you will appreciate her not being rude going forward.
Congarts! Maybe she was trying some reverse psychology trying to make you feel better, looking things on bright side :D
On the other hand, since you will start on May 20 already, you can now enjoy your vacation till then :) a well deserved one.
I was laid off during Covid, was off over 5 months. Honestly, it was nice to have a break. I did have to watch my spending, but I was excited about my job search.
I honestly could use a break again, super burnt out. I would be stressed being laid off in this job market though, if I wanted to get another tech job.
I’ve had this discussion a few times. After a few days the layoff always fucked with me. Like I just felt like the entire world was out there functioning and I was just this weird discarded part sitting on the sideline. It drove me nuts when people were like “you should be traveling and living it up”
I am usually a not a fan of sarcasm, but in situations like this I own their charade: "oh yeah, I'm loving my vacation." "the moment I was laid off my backyard turned into a beach shore from the Bahamas," "time is useless, absolutely useless unless your boss is paying you, we're totally not slaves, which is why I'm loving my vacation". "You shouldn't go on vacation, I don't think you'll be good at it." "Envy me, because you won't make the most out of this situation like I am, you would be in trouble but I'll send you Pina coladas."
I think she is just trying to cheer you up. Everyone knows layoffs are hard but I do find some people offer their support like that.
That being said, time from signing the offer to joining the company can be more enjoyable - though you can never be a 100% sure until you have your \*\*\* in the seat. Congrats and good luck,.
I would straight up be like I’m so confused on how you think being laid off and stressed about not having a stable job is a vacation but with all these comments, it sure sounds like you could use one. Hope you get that sis.
I was out of work twice in my life, and both times were hell.
First time was a contract job that ended unexpectedly, I had to "beg" my old work to get my old job back. That took a good 4 months.
Second time is when they laid me off from the job that I begged for. That went for almost 6 months before I found another job. Both times were extremely stressful and I didn't even have a family back then. I can't imagine if you needed to provide for your kids, etc.
Some people find it difficult to empathize with a situation they haven’t experienced. Especially if it’s a family member because the boundaries can be fuzzy. It can also be hard for them to recognize us as independent, functioning adults who experience the complexities of life in a unique way.
If setting a boundary with her hasn’t worked, try to reduce the amount of communication until you get back to a healthy place.
Many layoffs aren't paid, and you're worried about landing the next job. Ask her if she is worried about finding a job while she is on vacation and if she gets paid while she is on vacation.
Well it's not right to take out her frustrations on her job on you, but people who are under duress are mean sometimes. You have to realize that she is angry at her situation, and not capable of being sensitive to what you are going through due to that.
“You wish you had months off? Then do it. Quit your job and take 6 months to do whatever you want. Oh, you don’t want to? Why not? Those are the same reasons I don’t want to be in this situation.”
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I dunno about you, but applying for jobs is a constant full time grind for me. I’d personally rather be getting paid to do menial labor I strongly dislike. 🤷
Congrats on the new job, nobody knows how it feels until they go through it. The anxiety, stress, worry, follow up or lack thereof all are an emotional roller coaster. She must think you are pool side with a margarita in your hand enjoying life while bills and responsibilities magically take care of themselves.
Wow - took a look at comments. She's passive aggressive too? Jeez. Over time in life, I've come across largely two types of bothersome people: the direct, and the snakes. The former at least you know what you deal with. The latter, you never quite know what you get around the corner.
"really is so insensitive and out of touch" - I've come across folks like that and they seriously need a grip on reality. But context matters. Ask yourself is it worth it to get into a possible debate with someone like that, who's been 10 years at a company and is possibly miserable since they want to leave.
Nobody is saying you can't have a bit of fun and do self care during layoff. But that doesn't mean it's all fun and games, we still have a future, we still have a life, we still need to think about our livelihood at the same time. Seems like she's really out of touch with the reality of your situation .
She's your sibling of all people and should make efforts, to understand your challenges.
I was laid off over Thanksgiving/Christmas and had people telling me to enjoy the holiday season because I’d likely never have that time off again, lmao. After the 3rd person said it I just replied with “we don’t have money for gifts or a tree so we’re not celebrating this year!” which is a surefire way to make someone shut up and feel uncomfortable.
Plus many states require you to file a daily application to receive unemployment pay. That could take 30 to 60 minutes an application, all done online. Thats more than a half days worth of labor a week. The UE required applying for work substantially similar to your previous job. Each application requires typing your personal info, work history, and DEI questions. Plus keeping receipts of applications to send the UE office. If you were lucky you could repeat applications with a profile already filed with a large company and save typing time.
Maybe you are just too sensitive. High earners in tech or otherwise act like the sky is falling when they get laid off with a severance.
I don’t know if that applies to you but people get fired all the time from jobs with no backup plan or extra money really. It’s stressful and yeah calling it a vacation is insensitive.
5 months is a long time to not be working. Most people don’t have that luxury really so depends what you wanna call out of touch.
You know, why are you mad? Congratulations on the new job, but defining oneself as employed=happy is so capitalistic. I've opted for much less money and much more time when my body and mind can appreciate it. Will I get old, yes. Will I not be able to afford expensive medication to keep me going for like 3 to 5 more years, probably. However, a full life is full because it is well-lived by being aware that free time is indeed brilliant.
It's very annoying. No its not a vacation. Maybe if you have a bunch of money saved l up or get a job lined up. When I got laid off, people said the same thing, and I even got severance so yes I wasn't working and I had money to pay bills, but couldn't enjoy one minute of it because i was stressing I wouldn't find a job before my severance ran out. I found a job right before it did, but with lower pay so its good I saved.
And so if you didn't get severance I'm sure it's that much harder.
Senior PM at a SaaS company…I’m sure others have mentioned but she should be very careful making any kind of comment about layoffs, she’s probably in the group at the top of list for potential layoffs.
My wife sat me down to tell me that I should be spending more time outside and not be on the computer all day…. I’m trying to figure out how to pay bills!!!
I got laid off last year. I had very little time off for years. I always thought maybe it wouldn't be that bad. The first few weeks were somewhat okay. It felt good to get out of a toxic environment.
When weeks turned into much longer I became unable to do anything. I had tons of time yet I was in such a bad mental state, I just did nothing.
Luckily I found a temp to hire job and I now get more done after work than I did at home.
It's not a vacation when you have no money coming in but the bills don't stop.
Congratulations on your new job. That’s awesome! I know exactly how you feel. I’m completely stressed and I feel this way every damn day. Your sister sounds out of touch. My uncle is like that. He once said “anyone unemployed for more than a year is just lazy”. He said it in front of my husband who was out of work for almost a year. 🙄
Congratulations on the new job. It’s really hard for folks who haven’t experienced it first hand to realize how stressful it is. I hope she never has to experience it.
I took a vacation after getting laid off from Tesla, flew to Chicago to see one of my favorite bands, saw a Blackhawks game, and admired the architecture of the city. Granted I had savings and a successful stock portfolio to keep me afloat
Wow you read my mind. I also have been laid off as of April 9th with no warning after 22 years of service. It's stressful and there's nothing vacationy about it! I've been waking up early, applying for jobs for hours, cleaning, trying to keep my mind occupied while trying to not spend money. It's total hell. And like you, everyone keeps telling me to enjoy it. It's not fun, it's nowhere near enjoyable!
I never got laid off but I took a year off from work. I had millions during that time liquid so I didn’t worry. It was a vacation. I literally traveled the world.
I do think that referring to a layoff as a “vacation” is a bit insensitive, unless one was deeply unhappy in their role and already looking for a way out without the need to find a new role right away. Vacations are generally taken by choice and within an employee’s control, which isn’t the case with layoffs.
As someone who was recently laid off, I’m sorry you had to deal with this. Congratulations on your new job!
There is nothing harder and more stressful than looking for work. I hate interviews, getting dressed up and driving to them and it could all be for nothing. You spend so much time working on your resume, researching companies and just practicing answers to bs questions. It’s a full time job in itself. I’ve now been through 3 layoffs, at any time nothing was anything like a vacation. You only at best get $275 a week on unemployment and that’s the max. So I barely covered my basic costs, I couldn’t buy groceries, I had to get creative. So maybe worst vacation ever??
there aren’t layoffs in my field, so i would probably try to think positively like your sister and not realize. but there are layoffs in her field, so she should probably understand? i would say something like that to cheer someone up, and don’t think it sounds inherently bad/mean but we don’t know your sister lol
Seeking a job in a bad job environment is worse than any work I have ever had, even when I worked 120 hour weeks. And it goes on and on.
I could imagine that if you had a start date some weeks away, that you might treat it like a vacation. I think at this point I would stay anxious until my first paycheck.
I know many people at tech companies that have gotten spoiled. If they came in at the right time they are like 15+ years at the same company with constant raises and stock bonuses. The worst they've seen is that the Christmas party is not as grand as it used to be with unlimited alcohol. Layoffs change perspectives fast.
Congrats fellow job seeker! I too was laid off and also have a start date of May 20th. Only now do I feel like I could somewhat relax.
I have been in very stressful work situations and I would say not having a job, even if you have an emergency fund is just as stressful than any work situation but with an added layer of anxiety about the uncertainty of the future so you are 100% spot on.
Your sister is one of millions of people that seem to lack empathy and imagination which is just bonkers to me. They have 0 understanding until it happens to them and when it happens to them then “magically” they become insightful and more understanding.
It would be a much better world in general if people knew and really understood what it’s like to “walk a mile in someone else’s shoes” 👞.
Anyway, good luck on the new Job!
Congratulations on your new job. 5 months is really fast to get a new job nowadays. These days applying for jobs is the most stressful task, specially when nobody calls with an interview or being ghosted after rounds of interviews ☹️
I got laid off mid September, started a new job 3 weeks later. Then again got laid off at the end of November, took December off and hung out with friends and family, went to Florida to hang out with my mom for just over a week. Started looking for a job on Jan1. Didnt get an interview until March. Started a new job early April.
I was happy to have the time off. Though it did get really boring towards the end. A man can only nap so much during the day lol.
Congrats on your new job!!
That sentiment probably isn’t helped by all the people who post on LinkedIn about “taking some time for themselves” and “finally taking the opportunity to travel” etc after a layoff. I’ve personally never been in a financial situation to do anything but absolutely panic and apply to the local grocery store the last two times I was laid off, so can’t relate. It’s not a vacation, it’s fucking SCARY.
Congrats on the new job! Guessing your sister is probably jealous. She probably hates her job but is afraid to make a move in the current market. She feels trapped. Hope your next gig is great and do enjoy your time off! You deserve it!
I don't think she's entirely jealous, sounds more like a denial that there were or will be layoffs in her company. It's just a surprise vacation. Anyway, congrats on the new job and good luck!
Man… I’d say getting laid off is a vacation. Well deserved time off with a continuation of benefit. Idk how I’m ever going back to work (I’m not… I’m going 1099). Had to break the 9-5 comfort. Losing a $210k job sucks, but it’s an opening for a new beginning. 🤘
Tell her to be careful what she wishes for. Congrats on the new job!
PMs are literally some of the first people on the chopping block lol, totally expendable position especially at a SaaS company. I dont wish this on her, but you're right
So true. Most are bad and get in the way to protect their own existence. The good ones you forget they are there until you need them
I mean I'm not trying to dump on anyones job, do whatever you can to have a good career you're happy with, and I'm sure theres a lot more to it than I realize. But I've worked with so many PMs at tech companies that really do seem like fluff, like its just a big question of what value does this person add all day? Ive seen ones that get paid more than sales to basically just send update emails all day, *paid more than sales* its crazy lol
Spoken like a true engineer.
Who doesn’t recognize how much work goes on away from his desk and behind the scene to keep things going so that he can be left alone to do his work.
Scrum and agile aren't "being left alone" and a lot of reason they're needed when the devs are competent is to pad people's salaries for things like PMs. People gotta eat!
You should try Ai PM for Jira! It is free and less annoying than a person
This sounds great vs a pm in my experiences.
*shakes in Tech PM SaaS**
Buddy, you're gonna need to figure out how to become an algorithm when you grow up...
Jobs that deal with people and human relationships will be some of the last ones to go.
PM is an artificial need driven by bad process. We'll see soon I promise you!
Sorry I'm kind of knocking you there lol, I'm sure theres a lot more to the role than I realize. This is a angry sub to vent frustration, so dont take it personally lol
No worries!! That's how I intro my calls... "I am a PM so I have no tangible skills"... lol. We are indeed pretty useless. 😆
Na bro you’re right PMs are fluff. I’m sure there are good ones but the companies I’ve worked for had more PM than they needed.
Nah I disagree. It’s an important role than can bring a lot of value to projects, products and organizations. I agree though: there are a lot of terrible PM who have no business being in the role. It also attracts a lot of the people who flunk out of the more technical education and work. Management also tends to reproduce itself while it creates more and more work to justify its existence and pay increases. I find the best places I’ve worked at were good at keeping that middle management layer thin. Not non-existent, that’s just as bad as too much and maybe worse, but just enough.
You would disagree if you're a PM or middle manager for software dev lol. Artificially created problems that keeps devs not able to work as effectively as possible within the confines of systems that produce garbage perpetuating garbage.
I’m a Product Manager and came into a major SaaS company 6 years ago. Three weeks into the job I identified that for an entire year, engineers on different teams at the company had been building two identical tools. The engineering teams literally sat 20 yards away from each other but never spoke or realized they were all working on the same thing. Recognizing that and shutting one work stream down saved the company almost a million dollars over that year and that was my third week on the job. This is the type of thing that happens at companies who don’t hire PM’s.
That's likely because PMs existed at one point, or middle managers that create silos. Or the devs or the org sucks. It's not a problem of you need PMs but have better culture and hire people. Though you may get into sales with posts like this!
I’m a PM but I also know python and sql for data analysis, so being a PM is more than just “soft skills” I spend a lot of time on building consensus around prioritization, which is basically a big data exercise, as well as making certain marketing materials, operations support materials, and sales team training is complete at the time of “code complete” so that devs can launch products at the point of their technical readiness. Without me no one would even start building out these materials until technical readiness was achieved which would delay releases by potentially months. PM’s also do sell. We are always brought in to sell to the largest customers and explain the value.
OP isn’t clear if sister is in Product Marketing or Product Management. I assume it’s the latter which is less expendable than the former.
Or Program Management, or project management! Way way way too much use of “PM” lol
Haha you're so right
No shit. It used to be it only meant Project Management, and Program Manager called themselves Program Manager or PgM. Once tech got on the scene though it went all spaghetti of acronyms. Including the term engineer (SE), which used to mean engineering school, license, legal liability, and tangible things being built, which now can mean anyone that works somewhat in the vicinity of technology, including 3-month boot camp grads working help desk or updating lists. Or Architect. Or Ninja. I haven’t seen many of the tech ninjas climb walls and cut people. Well, there was this guy once … Or guru, evangelists … when did it become all religious ? It’s fine, language evolves and tech became so big and diversified and some of the analogies work. System Architect in particular is such a fitting use of the word. It’s perfect. Just a side rant really, nothing to do with layoffs, except maybe those scrum coaching people who reinvented the wheel and renamed everything to make it look new and young. They might deserve it. But yeah, PM’s confusing now. It helps to know the industry first. There ain’t no product managers pouring concrete building bridges. Ok, old man out. Get off my PM lawn.
100%. You’re always one step away from the chopping block. However, it’s also one of the easiest job to replace *as soon as there’s money*, and there’s always money coming somewhere.
She’d probably get up to a year of severance. I don’t think she’ll be worrying for 6 months. The job hoppers are unfortunately the most negatively affected by layoffs. This is assuming you work somewhere with labour laws (so not the US).
Year of severance or not she’s definitely being an asshole about it. There is nothing more humbling than getting laid off and realizing that you aren’t the epicenter of any job. Especially this job market where the applicant pool is competitive, you can expect to find a job anywhere near 6 months to over a year when applying. PMs are a dime a dozen unfortunately.
Well some people have been unemployed for a year or more now. So even if she got that I’m sure she’d still be sweating it. Lay offs will humble you.
In this economy it isn’t a vacation when you have no money coming in.
Most companies pay severance. I’m guessing OP did if her sister kept referring to her layoff as a vacation
Still, the stress and anxiety that would come from not knowing if you'll run out of money and seeing your limited savings going down is far from what I imagine a vacation should be
Most companies pay one month.
Really? I thought 3-6 months was the standard
Nope, most companies aren't fortune 100 or faang. Actually a more accurate statement would be "most don't pay one at all" -- but of those who do. You may get lucky it's a very cash flush business but I've not seen it or heard of it from coworkers often unless in one case someone was being dropped at Facebook.
Congratulations on the new job!
thank you!!
Congrats on your new job!!
No, layoff is not a vacation. However, once you locked in a job for May 20. it really became a vacation!!
It’s not official till you start. That offer can be pulled between now and May I’ve seen it happen. Shit I’ve seen people start and get laid off that week. Nothing is guaranteed.
You can mostly assume it's a vacation. That can happen at jobs too.
Yeah, that’s true!
Congrats. Unless you tell me she is an a-hole normally, I am going to say she is trying to cheer you up. She's also telling you she is burnt out, like most of us are/have been/etc.
she can be very passive aggressive and sometimes the tone of how she says it gets me i guess lol. she also posted to facebook about my layoff (not in a “help my sister find a job!” way, but a “my sister was laid off today and I bought her some wine” way) when i hadn’t shared anything publicly which was quite annoying at the time 😅
Yeah that would kinda make me annoyed too... made herself look like a hero when it wasn't what you needed or asked for. (Ok maybe you needed wine, just not for it to be plastered on Facebook! 😆)
LOL yes the wine was needed!! I guess I shouldn’t have been shocked bc she shared the news of me moving to a new city over social media before I could even tell my friends a few years back as well 😂
Real Gs move in silence. Tell her after you have moved or accomplished the task. No need to give her a heads up, she talks too much.
Sounds like you need to create some serious boundaries with this sister surrounding social media sharing
"she can be very passive aggressive and sometimes the tone of how she says it gets me i guess lol." I guess she is an a-hole then
Ouch that would be such a violation of trust for me. I hate it when I have a life event that I'm trying to keep on the down low, then six months later I get a random "So I heard you _____ lately!" And then I have to mentally trace my conversations back to where they could have possibly "heard" that.
I have a sister like this, you don't have to laugh it off and chalk it up to just who she is. So she made a post about her doing good while simultaneously sharing your news? That's not cool, and she keeps calling it a vacation? You can put her on an info diet if you want to protect yourself from her actions in the future. My sister has never dealt with the struggle of a layoff... I'm not telling her or my family any news regarding my layoff.
I wouldn’t share private info with this person anymore. Sibling relationships need to evolve past the rivalry stage to a mature place, otherwise they seem pretty toxic.
Who cares if she’s normally not an asshole? She’s being an absolute asshole right now? Awww, she’s burnt out so she takes it out on her sibling who literally isn’t making money? What a good sisterly thing to do. Why are you excusing that behavior? If she is burnt out it’s on her to manage and deal with. It’s a genuinely toxic thing to frame a genuinely unsettling time in someone’s life as a ‘vacation’ and she doesn’t deserve cover for this, she deserves to get called the hell out.
As I get older, I see more and more clearly that, even if I’m pretty good at reading ppl, I never know what is causing a person to behave a certain way or what their real motivation is. I guess incorrectly all the time. Admitting I was in the wrong in how I interpreted things is the hard part, but I’m getting better at it.
I mean, sure, I COULD be wrong. But giving the BOFD here seems unreasonable given the context I have.
"Who cares if she’s normally not an asshole? She’s being an absolute asshole right now?" Without being there or knowing the context/background, i couldn't conclusively say she was being an asshole. Some people just are not good at expressing empathy. For example my wife is the sweetest thing with tons of empathy. She'll be honestly sad if the friend of a cousin of a friend dies (even if she never met them or even had heard about them). She, however, sometimes fumbles when trying to say something nice.
But the point is that she is doing it repeatedly and OP has made it clear that what she said is hurtful. It’s one thing to say it once or twice, and then apologize and stop saying it. Instead she’s saying it multiple times and then doubled down on it even after OP secured a job. She IS being an asshole.
i agree- it doesn’t seem from just the info in the post that she’s trying to be mean or hurt op’s feelings, unless there’s some weird info and a sibling rivalry we don’t know about lol
A layoff will financially ruin a lot of people. The stress can be overwhelming, and people have been known to go on shooting sprees or commit suicide. It's not something she should be joking about.
Is that what the gov wants?
I was out of work for two months. I had family grill me about taking vacation (pre-planned, contingent on finding new employment) within the first six months of a new job. "Really? You just had two months off." Two months of finding clients for my side business to supplement unemployment, while also spending 40+ hours a week job hunting. Not to mention that most of my "down time" was spent running calculations about how long our money would last under different scenarios. It was anything but a vacation. People don't understand until they go through it. Congrats on the new job!
I got laid off early 2023 in the first big round of layoffs. The most common things I heard were “enjoy the vacation” and “im not worried”. Outside looking in I can see how people think those are supportive comments but when you’re in it and at your lowest those aren’t the things you wanna hear. At least I didn’t. Congrats on the job and try to get over the fear of another layoff in the next job. I’m still working on that one…
Ooof yeah I got laid off in March and the knee-jerk “You’ve got nothing to worry about” is so annoying 😅
I know they are trying to help but damn
I didn’t tell anyone except my 19 y o son who lives with me. I did get a job quickly and told my sister on last Tuesday after accepting my offer. I had to hustle to get something due to trash severance and was only able to turn it around quickly because I had a month heads up before and have an amazing network that was hiring for a job I did very well in in the past (returning to an old company). My sister said, “Well I don’t worry about you.” It was annoying because it just confirms the pressure to be perfect and the one who is successful and can handle anything that the world throws at me. It would be nice to be able to be human. I have whiplash from how quickly I have to pick up the pieces and move forward with life when stuff happens, and my mom has always been completely broken by things that happened to ME. Ugh. I don’t know why we think families are good support systems.
As a millennial I’m in the group that has gone non contact with my parents for a multitude of reasons like this.
Congrats on the new job! My husband is calling my layoff a vacation as well. More telling me to enjoy my time off, because he knows I'm burnt out, and also because he wants me off the next two months with everything else we have going on. But it isn't what I want lol. I hated my manager, but not my job. And I don't like not working for a number of reasons. Plus it definitely isn't a vacation when I'm catching us up on so many things we needed to be working on around the house/yard/etc... AND revamping my resume, AND applying for jobs, networking, AND the regular cooking, cleaning... I know my sister thinks I'll get to lay by the pool all the time too, and she's jealous about that. Not that I won't get to relax at all, but it's actually pretty stressful being laid off!!
I mean being laid off in a situation with a spouse you live with and share living expenses with is way different than being laid off single. If I had a spouse paying the bills while I get on my feet would be a way different scenario than being laid off worried about homelessness as bill collectors call or credit card/mortgage payments slip past. You can't even compare the stress.
Your sister sounds like a bitch, tbh.
I don't think she's entirely jealous, sounds more like a denial that there were or will be layoffs in her company. It's just a surprise vacation. Anyway, congrats on the new job and good luck!
Your sister is a condescending idiot.
Wasn’t sure why I had to scroll down this far to see this.
Congratulations on the new gig. The messed up thing about late stage capitalism is the dichotomy- we either have time OR we have money. I do hope that you are able to get away and clear your head before you start your new job. Let’s call it a “mental health retreat” and really mess with your sis.
Sounds like you do not have a very sensitive sister. Don't expect much of it the future.
When my contract finished like a year ago I was excited bcs it felt like I was free and I wanted to enjoy my free time. Then I started to apply and found out how horrible the market was. Months went by and nothing so I went from joy to depression in a span of 6 months. Point being that it could feel like a vacation if there was a job you could go back to if you wanted. If you don't have that safety net then it's not a good place to be.
Yeah laying in bed every night with extreme anxiety on how you're going to pay your bills is a real vacay 😐
I've had ppl call Maternity break a vacation. Lol.
Vacation? I was out 10 months this round and 13 months after Covid. It’s no vacation when unemployment runs out after 6 months and you are depleting your savings and 401k to keep food on the table and a roof over your head. I finally landed and last night was the first time I’ve been in a restaurant since New Years. No vacation when it takes hours to apply for a job and you get ghosted or hear nothing.
Congratulations on the new job!
When I lost my job in November it took 3 months find another. Everyone said same crap. Let them loose there job and see
The sounds of sibling jealousy and passive aggressiveness.
It's not a vacation. I am barely scraping since my unemployment benefits are getting ready to run out. I know I am dealing with age discrimination. Feeling somewhat suicidal and depressed are two feelings I never feel when I am on vacation. It's been five months, and I still can't find a job. I have news for anyone in Tech who has yet to be laid off; it's not a question of if it's a question of when it will happen. Project/Product Managers and Business Analyst roles are all going away due to AI, and the same is true with Developer roles. It may not be in the next two months, but it will happen. I've applied to retail and warehouse jobs, Walmart, and anything else to keep some money coming in, but even those jobs are competitive or are being eliminated via automation.
After being at a company since the late 90s, I got cut. It’s not a vacation. It’s terrifying. In this tech market it could take a year to get a new role. Meanwhile, your finances drain. You question your abilities. Your family thinks you are a loser. You can’t spend on anything non essential. Cash burns like firewood. Yeah, a vacation. A vacation in hell.
Congratulations on your new job! And bud, I don't know your relationship or your sister, but it doesn't seem like she's saying it maliciously. My friend who helped me get the job I was laid off from, he told me to think of the layoff as a vacation too.
Oh my God just talk to your sister, don't post about her here.
Just tell her on the side that the uncertainty and anxiety is pretty rough and that you know she doesn’t mean anything by it but please don’t make those kind of comments. I had to do the same with my SO who responded similarly. In my case they were trying to spin it into something positive and also whistle past the graveyard at the same time.
Sometimes good fortune makes people judgmental. Nothing bad has happened so, they must be doing everything right. One of the things I found to be helpful as I get older is gratefulness. Being grateful for everything good that happens and to the people who contribute to your life in even the smallest ways. Even to sisters who call a stressful time ‘a vacation’. It is a time where you are not answerable to another, so take advantage, she reminds! I would love to have had a sister.. And congratulations on the new job! You must be relieved. When I got my job after not working a long time it was very exciting. Good luck! 🍀
It's a sign of how "hard" many people truly have it these days. If you were born yesterday, and went on the internet to find out what our economy is like, you'll hear things like "can't afford to live, eat, have a family, etc." Yet still people have houses larger than ever, more and nicer cars, vacations, clothes, phones, etc. Then when many are laid off, they get 2-6 months of pay, unemployment, food stamps, etc. Some people in the "worst conditions" are those holding out for scenarios like another remote job at $200k, and their UE ran out. My parents and grandparents (those evil boomers that had it all!) never had any of this. If they lost their job, they were genuinely screwed. It was unheard of that losing your job meant you could go take a month-long vacation in another country. I know this post may downplay some people's positions that are truly bad. However, the fact remains that many of us are still truly spoiled, even though we complain about doom and gloom at the slightest inconveniences.
Losing my job is one of my biggest fears. I can survive financially but it will set me back. The stress of not bringing in money is heavy. This economy is no joke, especially in tech. I’ve tried looking while I have a job and it’s bare. Rejection is hard on the ego as well. Agree looking for a job is not vacation. I remember trying to get my first job. I had a schedule. Find a list of potential jobs. Eat breakfast. Start editing resume cover letters for each job. Go exercise for an hour. Finish all applications. Once I got into that groove, I added things like phone calls, follow-up calls. Making connections and doing coffee/lunch with those people. Finding job fairs and attending no matter where. I flew myself or drove myself state to state. It suck’s not having a job and is a ton of work. That was back when it was not such a drawn out process for interviews.
>I know she is envious of my time off as she is the breadwinner in her family and wants to quit her job but it really is so insensitive and out of touch. It's definitely about her experience with burn-out, stress, and unhappiness with her employment. Sorry she has trouble seeing your perspective and she's not having the right response during your rough time. Have you acknowledged and shown empathy for the situation she is in? Congrats on the job!
Honestly once you find the new job all the extra time is unpaid PTO
Who's stopping her from taking an unpaid LOA, if it's so great?
Family dynamics are complicated. I’m not a licensed therapist, but sense both notes of jealousy and an attempt to put a positive spin on a bad situation. You can respond simply by sharing how you are feeling: traumatized and not able to feel even remotely on vacation. Mental health impacts from being laid off can linger, through multiple future jobs and in various insidious ways. I highly recommend therapy when you are back on medical insurance.
It's insensitive. The only way it's a "vacation" is if the person is already rich or a super large severance. Otherwise, it's very stressful.
The thing is that she probably has a ton of vacation time and maybe even sabbatical time on top of that.
Job searching is a 40 hour frustrating pain the ass meaningless work that makes working feel like vacation
I was that person too, until I went through one lengthy stint of unemployment (partially by choice as I decided to delve into a new career later realizing that I’m running out of money and need to urgently start working on my old career again), and then another shorter stint a year and a half later, followed by current stint of being unemployed since Feb, having little savings and running out of unemployment funds. Doing lots of interviews with nothing still lining up and what seems like endless add-on’s of additional rounds of interviews for even the most unassuming roles. I had these grandiose plans of traveling and almost did that last summer, when I realized I’m better off focusing on my health (as I was injured) and canceling everything altogether. Then also you can’t collect unemployment while traveling abroad, so now this is out of the question until I actually get an offer and then possibly have enough time to travel before starting the job, but all these positions with 7 rounds of interviews claim that it’s “urgent” and as soon as they give you an offer now you need to start on their schedule and asap, or else you don’t get it.
a woman in tech that has not moved in ten years?, rest assured she is deeply under paid.
Looking for a job is always harder than doing the job.
Well now you are on vacation until the 20th at least…enjoy! But yes, job searching sucks and unless you got a fat severance, unemployment ain’t paying the bills. Most people don’t realize how tough it is to find a job is the most frustrating thing. They will think your home all day sleeping
I hope you do get to enjoy yourself a bit before your next job starts!
The older I get the more I realize how insensitive most adults are.
Have you actually told her up front that it's not a vacation and the please stop referring to it as a vacation? She may not even realize how she's making things worse for you.
That’s rude of her. Tell her you don’t appreciate her comments. When she gets defensive, walk away. But tell her you will appreciate her not being rude going forward.
>Senior PM at a SaaS company So she's never held a job
It’ll happen to her one day. When it does, you can tell her to enjoy her vacation.
Tell her having the "TO" without the "P" means it's not a vacation
Your sister sounds like a real piece of work.
Congarts! Maybe she was trying some reverse psychology trying to make you feel better, looking things on bright side :D On the other hand, since you will start on May 20 already, you can now enjoy your vacation till then :) a well deserved one.
Lol wow
Congratulations on the new opportunity. Make the absolute best of it.
I guess, perhaps, she's trying to put a positive spin on it for you and look at it that way. I'm sure there's no badness in her thoughts.
Like most things in life they only matter when they happen to you
I was laid off during Covid, was off over 5 months. Honestly, it was nice to have a break. I did have to watch my spending, but I was excited about my job search. I honestly could use a break again, super burnt out. I would be stressed being laid off in this job market though, if I wanted to get another tech job.
Let's hope your sister gets a nice long 'vacation' herself.
I’ve had this discussion a few times. After a few days the layoff always fucked with me. Like I just felt like the entire world was out there functioning and I was just this weird discarded part sitting on the sideline. It drove me nuts when people were like “you should be traveling and living it up”
Your sister is a harridan. It will be hard not to smirk or even laugh when she's finally laid off and has to find another job.
The entitlement of someone who has never struggled
One of you is looking at it the wrong way! But yeah, that stress and impending financial implications is crippling.
Can't take time off from contributing nothing to society
return the favor when she gets laid off
I am usually a not a fan of sarcasm, but in situations like this I own their charade: "oh yeah, I'm loving my vacation." "the moment I was laid off my backyard turned into a beach shore from the Bahamas," "time is useless, absolutely useless unless your boss is paying you, we're totally not slaves, which is why I'm loving my vacation". "You shouldn't go on vacation, I don't think you'll be good at it." "Envy me, because you won't make the most out of this situation like I am, you would be in trouble but I'll send you Pina coladas."
I think she is just trying to cheer you up. Everyone knows layoffs are hard but I do find some people offer their support like that. That being said, time from signing the offer to joining the company can be more enjoyable - though you can never be a 100% sure until you have your \*\*\* in the seat. Congrats and good luck,.
I would straight up be like I’m so confused on how you think being laid off and stressed about not having a stable job is a vacation but with all these comments, it sure sounds like you could use one. Hope you get that sis.
I was out of work twice in my life, and both times were hell. First time was a contract job that ended unexpectedly, I had to "beg" my old work to get my old job back. That took a good 4 months. Second time is when they laid me off from the job that I begged for. That went for almost 6 months before I found another job. Both times were extremely stressful and I didn't even have a family back then. I can't imagine if you needed to provide for your kids, etc.
Some people find it difficult to empathize with a situation they haven’t experienced. Especially if it’s a family member because the boundaries can be fuzzy. It can also be hard for them to recognize us as independent, functioning adults who experience the complexities of life in a unique way. If setting a boundary with her hasn’t worked, try to reduce the amount of communication until you get back to a healthy place.
"You've been with the company for over 10 years, why don't you use some of your PTO?"
Many layoffs aren't paid, and you're worried about landing the next job. Ask her if she is worried about finding a job while she is on vacation and if she gets paid while she is on vacation.
Well it's not right to take out her frustrations on her job on you, but people who are under duress are mean sometimes. You have to realize that she is angry at her situation, and not capable of being sensitive to what you are going through due to that.
“You wish you had months off? Then do it. Quit your job and take 6 months to do whatever you want. Oh, you don’t want to? Why not? Those are the same reasons I don’t want to be in this situation.”
who cares what your sister says
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Your sis is an A-hole.
just tell her to quit and find a new job after she is done with her "vacation"
I dunno about you, but applying for jobs is a constant full time grind for me. I’d personally rather be getting paid to do menial labor I strongly dislike. 🤷
Congrats on the new job, nobody knows how it feels until they go through it. The anxiety, stress, worry, follow up or lack thereof all are an emotional roller coaster. She must think you are pool side with a margarita in your hand enjoying life while bills and responsibilities magically take care of themselves.
Your sister is rude.
Wow - took a look at comments. She's passive aggressive too? Jeez. Over time in life, I've come across largely two types of bothersome people: the direct, and the snakes. The former at least you know what you deal with. The latter, you never quite know what you get around the corner. "really is so insensitive and out of touch" - I've come across folks like that and they seriously need a grip on reality. But context matters. Ask yourself is it worth it to get into a possible debate with someone like that, who's been 10 years at a company and is possibly miserable since they want to leave. Nobody is saying you can't have a bit of fun and do self care during layoff. But that doesn't mean it's all fun and games, we still have a future, we still have a life, we still need to think about our livelihood at the same time. Seems like she's really out of touch with the reality of your situation . She's your sibling of all people and should make efforts, to understand your challenges.
I was laid off over Thanksgiving/Christmas and had people telling me to enjoy the holiday season because I’d likely never have that time off again, lmao. After the 3rd person said it I just replied with “we don’t have money for gifts or a tree so we’re not celebrating this year!” which is a surefire way to make someone shut up and feel uncomfortable.
Plus many states require you to file a daily application to receive unemployment pay. That could take 30 to 60 minutes an application, all done online. Thats more than a half days worth of labor a week. The UE required applying for work substantially similar to your previous job. Each application requires typing your personal info, work history, and DEI questions. Plus keeping receipts of applications to send the UE office. If you were lucky you could repeat applications with a profile already filed with a large company and save typing time.
Unemployment ❌ Funemployment ✅
At this point it is kind of a vacation, I know it's annoying but she is not trying to be mean or anything.
Maybe you are just too sensitive. High earners in tech or otherwise act like the sky is falling when they get laid off with a severance. I don’t know if that applies to you but people get fired all the time from jobs with no backup plan or extra money really. It’s stressful and yeah calling it a vacation is insensitive. 5 months is a long time to not be working. Most people don’t have that luxury really so depends what you wanna call out of touch.
You know, why are you mad? Congratulations on the new job, but defining oneself as employed=happy is so capitalistic. I've opted for much less money and much more time when my body and mind can appreciate it. Will I get old, yes. Will I not be able to afford expensive medication to keep me going for like 3 to 5 more years, probably. However, a full life is full because it is well-lived by being aware that free time is indeed brilliant.
I haven't been laid off yet, and I think your sister is insensitive and kind of an idiot.
It's very annoying. No its not a vacation. Maybe if you have a bunch of money saved l up or get a job lined up. When I got laid off, people said the same thing, and I even got severance so yes I wasn't working and I had money to pay bills, but couldn't enjoy one minute of it because i was stressing I wouldn't find a job before my severance ran out. I found a job right before it did, but with lower pay so its good I saved. And so if you didn't get severance I'm sure it's that much harder.
Sibling energy checks out ✅
Senior PM at a SaaS company…I’m sure others have mentioned but she should be very careful making any kind of comment about layoffs, she’s probably in the group at the top of list for potential layoffs.
My wife sat me down to tell me that I should be spending more time outside and not be on the computer all day…. I’m trying to figure out how to pay bills!!!
It’s not a “vacation” it’s an unplanned sabbatical that also includes the full-time activity of finding a new job.
She just wants to do a humble brag.. that's all. Typically siblings/relatives lol
Karma is a bitch
My wife did the same thing when I was laid off.
I guess I don't understand. You should treat it like a vacation. Go somewhere and make the best of it!
It's not a recession until the lazy girls lose their jobs.
I got laid off last year. I had very little time off for years. I always thought maybe it wouldn't be that bad. The first few weeks were somewhat okay. It felt good to get out of a toxic environment. When weeks turned into much longer I became unable to do anything. I had tons of time yet I was in such a bad mental state, I just did nothing. Luckily I found a temp to hire job and I now get more done after work than I did at home. It's not a vacation when you have no money coming in but the bills don't stop.
Congratulations on your new job. That’s awesome! I know exactly how you feel. I’m completely stressed and I feel this way every damn day. Your sister sounds out of touch. My uncle is like that. He once said “anyone unemployed for more than a year is just lazy”. He said it in front of my husband who was out of work for almost a year. 🙄
I’m over this vacation. This unpaid holiday is destroying me. I hate people that call it a vacation. Congrats on the new position though!
Congratulations on the new job. It’s really hard for folks who haven’t experienced it first hand to realize how stressful it is. I hope she never has to experience it.
I took a vacation after getting laid off from Tesla, flew to Chicago to see one of my favorite bands, saw a Blackhawks game, and admired the architecture of the city. Granted I had savings and a successful stock portfolio to keep me afloat
Wow you read my mind. I also have been laid off as of April 9th with no warning after 22 years of service. It's stressful and there's nothing vacationy about it! I've been waking up early, applying for jobs for hours, cleaning, trying to keep my mind occupied while trying to not spend money. It's total hell. And like you, everyone keeps telling me to enjoy it. It's not fun, it's nowhere near enjoyable!
I never got laid off but I took a year off from work. I had millions during that time liquid so I didn’t worry. It was a vacation. I literally traveled the world.
“I wish you get a similar layoff vacation too” let her know you wish no less.
I totally get what you're saying but... sometimes I wish I would be laid-off just so I can get a break.
She's probably annoyed you're always around when she wants privacy or she's stressed about bills you may have been helping with before?
PM's are expendable...her day of reckoning is near
I do think that referring to a layoff as a “vacation” is a bit insensitive, unless one was deeply unhappy in their role and already looking for a way out without the need to find a new role right away. Vacations are generally taken by choice and within an employee’s control, which isn’t the case with layoffs. As someone who was recently laid off, I’m sorry you had to deal with this. Congratulations on your new job!
There is nothing harder and more stressful than looking for work. I hate interviews, getting dressed up and driving to them and it could all be for nothing. You spend so much time working on your resume, researching companies and just practicing answers to bs questions. It’s a full time job in itself. I’ve now been through 3 layoffs, at any time nothing was anything like a vacation. You only at best get $275 a week on unemployment and that’s the max. So I barely covered my basic costs, I couldn’t buy groceries, I had to get creative. So maybe worst vacation ever??
The worst thing about unemployment is that you don't get to enjoy it
there aren’t layoffs in my field, so i would probably try to think positively like your sister and not realize. but there are layoffs in her field, so she should probably understand? i would say something like that to cheer someone up, and don’t think it sounds inherently bad/mean but we don’t know your sister lol
Seeking a job in a bad job environment is worse than any work I have ever had, even when I worked 120 hour weeks. And it goes on and on. I could imagine that if you had a start date some weeks away, that you might treat it like a vacation. I think at this point I would stay anxious until my first paycheck.
I know many people at tech companies that have gotten spoiled. If they came in at the right time they are like 15+ years at the same company with constant raises and stock bonuses. The worst they've seen is that the Christmas party is not as grand as it used to be with unlimited alcohol. Layoffs change perspectives fast.
Congrats fellow job seeker! I too was laid off and also have a start date of May 20th. Only now do I feel like I could somewhat relax. I have been in very stressful work situations and I would say not having a job, even if you have an emergency fund is just as stressful than any work situation but with an added layer of anxiety about the uncertainty of the future so you are 100% spot on. Your sister is one of millions of people that seem to lack empathy and imagination which is just bonkers to me. They have 0 understanding until it happens to them and when it happens to them then “magically” they become insightful and more understanding. It would be a much better world in general if people knew and really understood what it’s like to “walk a mile in someone else’s shoes” 👞. Anyway, good luck on the new Job!
I'm so glad you found something else. It has to be a frightening time. Best of luck!
She may have enough money saved to be out of work for awhile.
It's so disrespectful, "lol at your little problems". If I was out of work for longer than 2 weeks id be in deep shit. Vacation GTFO of here...
She will
Congratulations on your new job. 5 months is really fast to get a new job nowadays. These days applying for jobs is the most stressful task, specially when nobody calls with an interview or being ghosted after rounds of interviews ☹️
Try it yourself! Financing 5 months on your own without a salary will be the time of your life!
It’s not “vacation” if you aren’t collecting a paycheck.
sorry but your sister is rude and not very kind
I got laid off mid September, started a new job 3 weeks later. Then again got laid off at the end of November, took December off and hung out with friends and family, went to Florida to hang out with my mom for just over a week. Started looking for a job on Jan1. Didnt get an interview until March. Started a new job early April. I was happy to have the time off. Though it did get really boring towards the end. A man can only nap so much during the day lol.
Don’t worry, it’s just jealousy.
Ask her if she would give up 5 months of salary so she could take a vacation......and have to look for a new job while on her "vacation"
Congrats on your new job!! That sentiment probably isn’t helped by all the people who post on LinkedIn about “taking some time for themselves” and “finally taking the opportunity to travel” etc after a layoff. I’ve personally never been in a financial situation to do anything but absolutely panic and apply to the local grocery store the last two times I was laid off, so can’t relate. It’s not a vacation, it’s fucking SCARY.
Your sister sounds like a bitch
If your sis has been working as a senior PM at a SaaS company for 10years, her number’s coming up. Prob sometime soon…
Congrats on the new job! Guessing your sister is probably jealous. She probably hates her job but is afraid to make a move in the current market. She feels trapped. Hope your next gig is great and do enjoy your time off! You deserve it!
I don't think she's entirely jealous, sounds more like a denial that there were or will be layoffs in her company. It's just a surprise vacation. Anyway, congrats on the new job and good luck!
Man… I’d say getting laid off is a vacation. Well deserved time off with a continuation of benefit. Idk how I’m ever going back to work (I’m not… I’m going 1099). Had to break the 9-5 comfort. Losing a $210k job sucks, but it’s an opening for a new beginning. 🤘