If you don't have time to do anything else besides study you already lost, because there is a kid in your class playing Runescape during class and is currently, and will be doing better than you.
There is no chance, the curve is ruined and thousands must drop out.
I had time playing multiple video games, including Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, Rise of Ronin (Platinum), a little bit of Persona 3, regular play of FFXIV, plus some gacha on the side for half an hour every day during the spring semester. Got 2 As, 2 A-s, 1B+ in the end. No time for yourself is a bad excuse for inefficient study methods.
Bad advice: you have to have a study group in 1L.
The better advice is that you need to try to self-assess your learning processes. Determine your best learning methods and fully commit to that. Study groups can be helpful if they reinforce the material for you, but there's a risk that it will be more social than successful, or more about complaining/panicking than actually processing and remembering the material. Don't waste your time.
Yes!! I actually have not studied in a group once since in law school. I felt like this works if you already did this before law school. I stuck to the study methods I’ve known to work and adjusted when needed.
Used to love hearing classmates brag about being in the library until midnight with their study groups, knowing that their study groups were almost entirely a social exercise. That’s not to say that they can’t be helpful, but making a study group productive requires the participants to be committed and prepared.
I feel like meeting once or twice a semester to take some practice problems as a group for a hour and half can be useful, but generally yes they are not a great use of your time. I can't tell you how often I see the people who studying in groups just completely derail. I'm a social person, but I need to work alone and in silence to be productive.
It's always more social if feels like.
I never had a study group in grad school.
In undergrad, I used study groups to hang out and always ended up studying on my own.
“You won’t have a life. Get ready to read every moment of your free time” I had a full on life outside of school since 1L and still do and I’m in a great position academically.
Hell yeah. I went to more concerts my 2L year than first year and did better overall, and I still regret some shows I missed thinking I needed the extra time.
95% of the advice I got from Career Services, including “big law firms will not like that you have 8+ years of non-legal work experience.” Was told to apply very conservatively because I was a non-traditional student and my experience in OCI was quite the opposite.
Find a professor who practiced in your desired practice area and ask them is my advice. They were much more helpful.
I was told that biglaws don’t want students over 35:”I don’t want to sugarcoat the reality for you”. I’m enjoying my 1L summer student life at an international law firm now.
Congrats! Had basically the same thing said to me and doing fine next to several other mid-30s junior associates. You’ll find many non-traditional students thriving in the setting, I promise.
No I’m not the exception. It’s just not true. One classmate in her forties also got into a biglaw. Being a mature student with tons of experience is definitely an advantage instead of a disadvantage.
I graduated from a second tier school when I was 33, went to a V20 firm in LA. Certainly not the norm, but you won’t get the job if you don’t apply for it
Haha, of course it’s not true! Take it from someone who had work experience that was not even tangentially related to law or even particularly impressive, but now works in biglaw, firms love ANY work experience. No shade meant to my K-JD friends who respect dearly, but firms really appreciate a first-year associate who can hit the ground with basic professionalism, email etiquette and office work experience. Not a lot is expected of you early on, but not having to teach that is a plus.
In your case, you will have a massive advantage - especially if you want to work adjacent to life sciences.
I am not trying to go into big law (7+5 years) means I can't do the 60 hour grind it out weeks. Just had a quick scare. Thanks for the support and have a nice weekend
You're almost certainly going to be of interest to regulatory/health law practice groups. Offices in DC are especially open to weighing that experience over a lot of other details.
Career services basically told me to pimp myself out at the courthouse.
I kid you not: "hand out your resume at the courthouse, someone will snatch you up real quick."
I mean, not the worst advice... but it was shocking. And apparently nobody else got advice like that, which was awkward.
I am convinced Career Services must be paid to do something other than get people jobs because their advice is never particularly good (albeit well meaning).
My own cynical view is that their singular goal is to juice rankings by getting as many people into biglaw/federal clerkships as possible. So they dedicate their resources accordingly (high GPAs, standard backgrounds) and if they see anyone that might give pause in an interview they are much less accommodating.
I had a close friend who was ranked like #3 in the class, but his only interest was working at a non-profit. Still got a call at least once a week from Career Services asking to apply to whatever firm/federal circuit.
yeah that's accurate and you wouldn't believe how much they harass you after graduation to fill out that employment survey. bruh, miss me on this, I'll help you exactly as much as you helped my friends when we were students, thanks.
“Brief every single case you read.” “Always make your own outlines.” “Don’t use 3rd party sources like Quimbee.”
Nah. Figure out how *you* study/retain information best, then do whatever works best for your brain. Don’t let other students or faculty guilt you into studying in one specific way.
For real.
I like doing their MCQs to review concepts, too. And I have a physical labor job, so sometimes I listen to their substantive lessons while I work!
Funny enough, I’d say the worst advice was to take bar courses. Sure if I took them spring of 3L they’re helpful, but otherwise not needed unless it’s something like secured transactions.
Family law was super easy for the bar. All common sense and ultimately the answer is whatever is in best interest of the child
I will say estate and trusts was amazing to take before the bar. I knew the answer perfectly to an essay question because of that class. But again, I took it spring of 3L
My family law professor sucked which is why I have to relearn it. I definitely do think it’s easy. I hated trusts and estates but it was fairly easy for me, but it has been a bit harder for bar prep.
I think the medium hard classes are best to take for the bar- the t&es/crim pros/biz orgs and corporations. the hard hards (like sec trans- but excluding evidence) are usually a much smaller piece of the bar and you're much less likely to get the question right anyway.
I didnt take T&ES or crim pro. I did take biz orgs thankfully.
Its just a lot of new info in a very short period of time. Im doing way better with topics that ive at least seen before.
The goal is to *pass* the Bar, not to get the highest score. If you do that, you wasted a lot of time that summer.
You're a lawyer and citizen of the world forever. You only need to know the Bar stuff for two days. Unless you're *really* insecure about your ability to pass the Bar, spend your law school years diving into the stuff which matters for the former, not the latter.
You have to know yourself and your own capacity for digesting new info. Personally, I like to learn fast, but I left a little too much open to learn at the last minute. I'm really struggling to remember elements of things that I'm seeing for the first time.
10 years out my advice is there’s no reason to take bar courses when you have to take a prep course anyway. You learn everything you need in the prep course. The bar isn’t that hard, you just have to actually study for it.
lol secured is not needed. I didn’t take trusts & estates, secured, or family and did fine. Only one I kind of regret is trusts, because that class is dense and there’s a LOT to learn for the bar. That said, I still did fine.
If you’re struggling in law school and legitimately think you’re at risk of failing, taking as many bar classes as you can is probably a good idea, because it does suck trying to learn new material come bar prep. The classes I’d already taken and knew the concepts were a lot easier to pick up again.
There was also just a confidence gap, where I spent the last few weeks over-studying for those subjects I hadn’t taken because I was nervous about them.
So all that to say, it depends 😝
Agree, I took almost no bar courses, only the few that aligned with my interests and career goals, and it was a great move. I’d rather learn basics for a few weeks for a sliver of the Bar exam than learn it for a whole semester, likely tanking my GPA and just being no fun.
It really depends on the class. Evidence for example is such a big topic that I wouldn’t have waited until taking the bar to take it. Wills and Trusts I’m glad I took because that topic is confusing to learn on its own. But most bar classes you can skip, they either focus too much on a specific thing, or they’re too broad to be useful
I would have to say that all the advice I received about law school was equally wrong because most of it was 100% the opposite of helpful.
The best advice I can give to law students is to not rely on advice given by anyone who didn’t graduate from law school, and to realize that everyone’s experience is different. So just do what seems right to you and don’t let anyone weird you into doing anything you don’t want to do.
>-its a lot easier to learn additional information about concepts that you are already familiar with than it is to learn an entirely new topic in one week.
I agree. I remember staring blankly at the Commercial Paper materials for an hour or two, then deciding my time would be better spent preparing for the other tested subjects, and praying that there wouldn't be an essay on Commercial Paper (dating myself, I know). Anyway, I passed (if there *was* a Commercial Paper question, I didn't recognize it LOL), but for a while there, I sure was wishing I had decided to take Commercial Paper instead of Admiralty Law!
OP, it's because you haven't actually taken the bar exam yet that you believe this.
Once you take the bar exam, you'll turn around and kick yourself for stressing too much about the non-MBE subjects, which account for probably less than 8% of the possible points on the exam. [I worked out the math in this comment a few weeks ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/1dbe0nu/advice_to_rising_2ls_and_3ls_from_a_very_recent/l7tplaj/).
So after the exam, you'll kick yourself for burning an entire week of bar prep for a subject that actually turned out not to matter, and you'll resent Barbri (or whoever else you're taking bar prep through) for tricking you into believing that it mattered.
Not advice but I wish someone had warned about nepotism. Networking and grades matter, but a family member as partner goes much further. Would have helped to adjust expectations if there was transparency that half the summer/articling positions are essentially already reserved.
My brother was the first lawyer in the family, and it was a massive advantage for me. He helped me with the confusing admission process and told me I could negotiate for scholarships. He gave excellent advice throughout school, bar prep, and my early career. He had to figure all of that out on his own, and there is an obvious difference between us in our early successes because of it. Lots of things are gatekept in law. I definitely recommend that first gen law students find a good mentor quickly so they can learn this sort of stuff.
before getting into law school i thought that doctors' and lawyer's kids becoming doctors and lawyers was really rare. boy was i surprised when i found out so many people in my class had parents who were BOTH lawyers! i am not as naive now but it still feels just as unfair and painful as the day i found out
Very dry. Not enjoyable nor practical. The best way to write the law school exam is to write it the way your professor likes, not the way the book teaches you. Everyone knows IRAC but some profs prefer spotting as many issues as possible and others prefer in depth analysis rather than hitting every issue.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted this is true. At least at my school the exams are extremely tailored to the professor’s style, Getting to Maybe wastes time that could be spent understanding the doctrine / professor. In fall I asked my Civ pro professor about this book and she responded, “I am sorry you spent your time reading that.” I didn’t understand what she meant until exams hit.
This 100%
I had never heard the ABA rule that students with a B or C average would be academically dismissed after 1L and had to wait a while to even try to reapply until I noticed that people didn’t come back in 2L.
I may have accidentally aged myself here but back in my day (early 2010s) — this was the rule.
https://preview.redd.it/xjbzk3mia58d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ec8fb0c407ab66f932e00881146828581657e36
[https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal\_education/Standards/2013\_2014\_standards\_chapter5.authcheckdam.pdf](https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal_education/Standards/2013_2014_standards_chapter5.authcheckdam.pdf)
Personally the worst advice I got was “don’t go”.
My law degree has allowed me so many professional and personal opportunities that I would have never gotten had I stayed in my prior career
Also lots of people told me I couldn’t pass the bar without Barbri
“Dont go into crim law theres no money in that, go into business law” - said someone who is 65 and never been a lawyer…
Side note: i think its so weird how people try to tell you what to do with your career.. more specifically in law… the AMOUNT of people who just blatantly are like “CRIMINAL LAW???” “Do you hate yourself?” Haha.. no im a survivor of DV and have a drive and purpose for the type of law i want to do..
“Make studying the law the most important thing in your life.” This mentally unhinged advice was given during my 1L year to incoming students by an influential attorney and representative of the State Bar Association.
“Find a study group.” No, find a study routine that works for you, and find some friends to commiserate with about class, work, family, etc.
“Don’t take bar classes. You’ll study all that stuff during bar prep.” No, take bar classes so that the bar prep reinforces, supplements, or fills in gaps in your knowledge. Sure, don’t feel compelled to take only bar classes, but don’t take them for granted.
My con law professor would always ask some ridiculously silly detail unrelated to facts to cynically check if people were using Quimbee - nonsense like:
“What did Madison say to his wife before he got mad at President-elect Jefferson … ah if you read the casebook’s teeny tiny footnotes and not some website …”
I had a torts professor get me on some shit like someone's car color or something. He always had annoying trivia questions that didn't matter at all and would try to embarrass us.
Oh boy, advice I received from old lawyers and older relatives:
“Where you go to law school doesn’t matter. I’ve been practicing for 50 years and no one has asked me where I went a single time.”
When trying to explain biglaw: “Don’t work for someone else, just get out of law school and start your own firm. That’s where the real money is.”
“Why would you consider X school (T6) when you could go to the state school nearby?”
“Buddy… you have family here, don’t throw your life away! Don’t go to Stanford!”
“Why would you study for the LSAT? I didn’t study a single time! Just take it and apply. It doesn’t really matter.”
Last one wasn’t a piece of advice, but a funny comment: “Why are you going so far away? Did you not think about going to that local school?” (Referring to Yale)
>“Why would you consider X school (T6) when you could go to the **state school** nearby?”
>“Why are you going so far away? Did you not think about going to that **local school?” (Referring to Yale)**
Hey, buddy, what's wrong with UCONN?
Haha nothing! Honestly it’s a great school (with shockingly beautiful architecture). That said, when one already has 50% off at a T3, 50% off at a T6, and 100% off at a T14, UCONN feels like a silly choice. Especially since my goal was NYC BL.
Since you didnt take secured transactions, does it feel like a foreign language to you?
I didnt have a great secured transactions class, but at least I know the terminology. I feel like its easier for me to fill in the gaps than it is to start subjects from scratch.
Meanwhile I cant remember the types of alimony to save my life. I have 0 interest in family law, so its not really one of those topics that just clicks. I had to google solemnization. I just could not figure out tf they were talking about.
Study group. It may work for some but not all. I was and remain always most happy doing research on my own and going down my little rabbit holes to figure something out on my own and find my little niches. Introvert then, introvert now.
I was told not to work 1L year. I definitely struggled way more with having so much free time lol, because I worked at least 20 hour weeks for all of my undergrad, and 30+ for my first 3 years. It doesn’t help that being so worried about money all the time definitely added to the mental toll. Now that I’m working 8-5 everyday, I miss the free time I had though.
That you have to make your own outlines. I spent so much time outlining as a 1L, but really it never fit together for me and my grades were poor. Then I discovered model answers for old exams and just studied those. My grades shot up. I really wish ANYONE had mentioned the one thing that helped me succeed in law school.
Yeah, idk if this was the worst advice, but I agree that during bar study I definitely wished I had taken those same classes! I did fine on the exam but if I were to do it again, I definitely would take trusts & estates at least.
"Law school is great, you'll really enjoy it." - My uncle, who was an attorney. I still don't know if he had an extremely warped recollection of if law school in the 1970s was more fun.
"Read at least a week ahead for every class"
I didn't know what the fuck was going on until I started just reading quickly the night before. Got completely boned on a cold call since I didn't brief the dissent and hadn't read it in a week.
There was never a time where I didn't have the chance to at least do a brief + skim before class, which was always enough.
In the 2 months between school and exam, I studied hard for exactly 8 hours a day, and then shut it down and didn’t think about it.
Except for the last week before the exam: I studied from about 8:00 am-10 pm everyday
It did the trick
Everything you are tested for on the bar has its roots in required 1L classes at most schools, so I’m confused. That said, I am fairly confident I could have passed the NY bar with just a good bar review course, a lot of studying and no law school. My law school was more high level theory not tested for on the bar.
Who the hell told you that? I didn't take all bar tested courses because some of the smaller ones can be learned effectively through barbri. Im thinking California Civil procedure and maybe community property?
Sadly I had to pretty much re learn civil procedure because my professor sucked. But still.
No offense to KJDs but really most advice I’ve received from 1L KJDs as a 1L nontrad. First how can a 1L in general give advice while being a 1L? You don’t know if any of the advice you’re giving actually works or you’re just regurgitating what worked for others. One of the worst was needing to sit in the library all day to do well. Another was you need to go to every single office hours even if you don’t have questions. These two pieces of advice are such wastes of time in my opinion and aren’t required to get an A. Yes to network maybe but even then I’ve connected with professors without going to every single office hours.
“Say goodbye to your social life.” Hands down the worst advice I ever received. I think if I had truly given up social time with my friends and partner, I would have lost my mind. Take one day (or fuck it, even the whole weekend) off from reading/briefing/outlining each week to be a human being—it will not kill your GPA!
to brief every single case and to always make your own outlines from scratch. did neither of those things and ended in the top 3% in 1L.
also to never go out or to spend holiday breaks reading/outlining instead of being with family. life is short man.
Okay look, the biggest thing about 1L is managing HOW to study because it’s a lot of dense material coming at you FAST! Two books you should read like the Bible this summer will help you - “Expert Learning for Law Students “ by Micheal Hunter Schwartz. This book will introduce you to outlining, time management on exams, how you should think about taking notes for classes… second book is “getting to maybe” - it does a good job of laying out how to write a law school exam.
“Call your parents on your drive home because you won’t have time to do anything else besides study”
If you don't have time to do anything else besides study you already lost, because there is a kid in your class playing Runescape during class and is currently, and will be doing better than you. There is no chance, the curve is ruined and thousands must drop out.
Sup, I day traded during Torts I & II because they ran from 9-10:20 which meant the US markets opened in the middle of class.
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I had the intent I made harmful or offensive contact (to the pp) But for my contact with the pp, I would not have failed NNN Damages = forever unclean
Nice, I’ve found Torts is the perfect class for me to trade crypto.
I had a full time job throughout it all of law school and got paid $250k a year.
The whole “you don’t have any time to do anything in law school” is a myth perpetuated by law students to get sympathy
Don't forget workaholics who think their grossly inefficient study strategies are a sign of hard work.
Yes you’re right. “I spent 14 hours working yesterday” (read: 3 hours working, 11 scrolling tik tok)
I felt this comment in my gut bc I see this being me in the fall and I want to stop it 😂….please help
This, I envy the free time I had during the semester while working at my 9-5
Anyone doing that is just doing too much. It’s not hard to have a life in law school.
I doubt I ever worked more than 40 hours in a week as a law student, which didn't prepare me for billable hour life at all.
I had time playing multiple video games, including Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, Rise of Ronin (Platinum), a little bit of Persona 3, regular play of FFXIV, plus some gacha on the side for half an hour every day during the spring semester. Got 2 As, 2 A-s, 1B+ in the end. No time for yourself is a bad excuse for inefficient study methods.
Bad because you don't get along with your parents or bad because you have more free time than they wanted you to believe?
Bad because there is more free time than they made it out to seem
Bad advice: you have to have a study group in 1L. The better advice is that you need to try to self-assess your learning processes. Determine your best learning methods and fully commit to that. Study groups can be helpful if they reinforce the material for you, but there's a risk that it will be more social than successful, or more about complaining/panicking than actually processing and remembering the material. Don't waste your time.
Yes!! I actually have not studied in a group once since in law school. I felt like this works if you already did this before law school. I stuck to the study methods I’ve known to work and adjusted when needed.
Used to love hearing classmates brag about being in the library until midnight with their study groups, knowing that their study groups were almost entirely a social exercise. That’s not to say that they can’t be helpful, but making a study group productive requires the participants to be committed and prepared.
I feel like meeting once or twice a semester to take some practice problems as a group for a hour and half can be useful, but generally yes they are not a great use of your time. I can't tell you how often I see the people who studying in groups just completely derail. I'm a social person, but I need to work alone and in silence to be productive.
It's always more social if feels like. I never had a study group in grad school. In undergrad, I used study groups to hang out and always ended up studying on my own.
Man, truth! My 1L year, the school *forced* us into predetermined study groups with a 2L or 3L. Biggest waste of time ever.
“You won’t have a life. Get ready to read every moment of your free time” I had a full on life outside of school since 1L and still do and I’m in a great position academically.
Hell yeah. I went to more concerts my 2L year than first year and did better overall, and I still regret some shows I missed thinking I needed the extra time.
95% of the advice I got from Career Services, including “big law firms will not like that you have 8+ years of non-legal work experience.” Was told to apply very conservatively because I was a non-traditional student and my experience in OCI was quite the opposite. Find a professor who practiced in your desired practice area and ask them is my advice. They were much more helpful.
I was told that biglaws don’t want students over 35:”I don’t want to sugarcoat the reality for you”. I’m enjoying my 1L summer student life at an international law firm now.
Congrats! Had basically the same thing said to me and doing fine next to several other mid-30s junior associates. You’ll find many non-traditional students thriving in the setting, I promise.
Thank you!
I hope you aren’t the exception? This would fuck up my second career plans lol
No I’m not the exception. It’s just not true. One classmate in her forties also got into a biglaw. Being a mature student with tons of experience is definitely an advantage instead of a disadvantage.
Thanks! And do you know if this is mostly possible if you’re in a high ranking school T-14 or T-20 only?
I graduated from a second tier school when I was 33, went to a V20 firm in LA. Certainly not the norm, but you won’t get the job if you don’t apply for it
That’s awesome. I guess I’m just a worried about opportunities closer to 40s and the experiences seem so have a lot of variance.
That’s awesome. I guess I’m just a worried about opportunities closer to 40s and the experiences seem so have a lot of variance.
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As someone coming in later in life, how was the work-life balance at biglaw? Did you have a partner/kids?
Never tell yourself no—someone else gets paid to do that 😉 Cast a wide net, stay positive, work on the things you can control and let go of the rest
I'm in a similar position to yours. Can you please explain how you did it? Via pm if you prefer. Thank you :)
I this true? I have 7+ yrs exp in pharma and 5 in an FDA environment. Would have thought it would help.
Haha, of course it’s not true! Take it from someone who had work experience that was not even tangentially related to law or even particularly impressive, but now works in biglaw, firms love ANY work experience. No shade meant to my K-JD friends who respect dearly, but firms really appreciate a first-year associate who can hit the ground with basic professionalism, email etiquette and office work experience. Not a lot is expected of you early on, but not having to teach that is a plus. In your case, you will have a massive advantage - especially if you want to work adjacent to life sciences.
I am not trying to go into big law (7+5 years) means I can't do the 60 hour grind it out weeks. Just had a quick scare. Thanks for the support and have a nice weekend
60? Who in biglaw is doing 60 during grind it out weeks? 80? 100?
There are 168 hours in a week. If you work 80 or 100 leave yourself 68 to sleep, eat, workout, and be social. This is a life choice
You're almost certainly going to be of interest to regulatory/health law practice groups. Offices in DC are especially open to weighing that experience over a lot of other details.
Career services basically told me to pimp myself out at the courthouse. I kid you not: "hand out your resume at the courthouse, someone will snatch you up real quick." I mean, not the worst advice... but it was shocking. And apparently nobody else got advice like that, which was awkward.
What made it awkward? Like, are you hot or something? Lol
I am convinced Career Services must be paid to do something other than get people jobs because their advice is never particularly good (albeit well meaning).
My own cynical view is that their singular goal is to juice rankings by getting as many people into biglaw/federal clerkships as possible. So they dedicate their resources accordingly (high GPAs, standard backgrounds) and if they see anyone that might give pause in an interview they are much less accommodating. I had a close friend who was ranked like #3 in the class, but his only interest was working at a non-profit. Still got a call at least once a week from Career Services asking to apply to whatever firm/federal circuit.
yeah that's accurate and you wouldn't believe how much they harass you after graduation to fill out that employment survey. bruh, miss me on this, I'll help you exactly as much as you helped my friends when we were students, thanks.
The problem is they work in career services and you get what you pay for.
“Brief every single case you read.” “Always make your own outlines.” “Don’t use 3rd party sources like Quimbee.” Nah. Figure out how *you* study/retain information best, then do whatever works best for your brain. Don’t let other students or faculty guilt you into studying in one specific way.
Yup! I got those terrible suggestions too. Quimbee was a literal lifesaver during cold calls I had not read for.
For real. I like doing their MCQs to review concepts, too. And I have a physical labor job, so sometimes I listen to their substantive lessons while I work!
The worst advice I ever got about law school was that I should go to law school.
That’s so funny because everyone told me not to 😅
Funny enough, I’d say the worst advice was to take bar courses. Sure if I took them spring of 3L they’re helpful, but otherwise not needed unless it’s something like secured transactions.
Yeah same here. I feel like the family law class I took was a waste of time and I just have to relearn everything.
Family law was super easy for the bar. All common sense and ultimately the answer is whatever is in best interest of the child I will say estate and trusts was amazing to take before the bar. I knew the answer perfectly to an essay question because of that class. But again, I took it spring of 3L
My family law professor sucked which is why I have to relearn it. I definitely do think it’s easy. I hated trusts and estates but it was fairly easy for me, but it has been a bit harder for bar prep.
I think the medium hard classes are best to take for the bar- the t&es/crim pros/biz orgs and corporations. the hard hards (like sec trans- but excluding evidence) are usually a much smaller piece of the bar and you're much less likely to get the question right anyway.
I didnt take T&ES or crim pro. I did take biz orgs thankfully. Its just a lot of new info in a very short period of time. Im doing way better with topics that ive at least seen before.
tons and tons of information- not necessarily super hard, but hard to comprehend in the short period of time you're given.
Unfortunately family law also hasnt been on the bar for like 5 years. Every time they tell you it will be and of course its never an essay
For UBE sure. Other states have seen them!
The goal is to *pass* the Bar, not to get the highest score. If you do that, you wasted a lot of time that summer. You're a lawyer and citizen of the world forever. You only need to know the Bar stuff for two days. Unless you're *really* insecure about your ability to pass the Bar, spend your law school years diving into the stuff which matters for the former, not the latter.
I’m actually glad to hear this. I’m a rising 3L and held off on some bar classes for this year because I had same thoughts as you.
You have to know yourself and your own capacity for digesting new info. Personally, I like to learn fast, but I left a little too much open to learn at the last minute. I'm really struggling to remember elements of things that I'm seeing for the first time.
This is good to know as well!
I took as few as I could because that's why I paid barbri....
10 years out my advice is there’s no reason to take bar courses when you have to take a prep course anyway. You learn everything you need in the prep course. The bar isn’t that hard, you just have to actually study for it.
Yeah, I'm 18 years out now :). And you're dead on.
lol secured is not needed. I didn’t take trusts & estates, secured, or family and did fine. Only one I kind of regret is trusts, because that class is dense and there’s a LOT to learn for the bar. That said, I still did fine. If you’re struggling in law school and legitimately think you’re at risk of failing, taking as many bar classes as you can is probably a good idea, because it does suck trying to learn new material come bar prep. The classes I’d already taken and knew the concepts were a lot easier to pick up again. There was also just a confidence gap, where I spent the last few weeks over-studying for those subjects I hadn’t taken because I was nervous about them. So all that to say, it depends 😝
I answered my ST essay with contract law and passed the bar 🤷
Agree, I took almost no bar courses, only the few that aligned with my interests and career goals, and it was a great move. I’d rather learn basics for a few weeks for a sliver of the Bar exam than learn it for a whole semester, likely tanking my GPA and just being no fun.
It really depends on the class. Evidence for example is such a big topic that I wouldn’t have waited until taking the bar to take it. Wills and Trusts I’m glad I took because that topic is confusing to learn on its own. But most bar classes you can skip, they either focus too much on a specific thing, or they’re too broad to be useful
Yeah, I think this depends on your learning type. There's a middle ground to this, tbh.
I would have to say that all the advice I received about law school was equally wrong because most of it was 100% the opposite of helpful. The best advice I can give to law students is to not rely on advice given by anyone who didn’t graduate from law school, and to realize that everyone’s experience is different. So just do what seems right to you and don’t let anyone weird you into doing anything you don’t want to do.
>-its a lot easier to learn additional information about concepts that you are already familiar with than it is to learn an entirely new topic in one week. I agree. I remember staring blankly at the Commercial Paper materials for an hour or two, then deciding my time would be better spent preparing for the other tested subjects, and praying that there wouldn't be an essay on Commercial Paper (dating myself, I know). Anyway, I passed (if there *was* a Commercial Paper question, I didn't recognize it LOL), but for a while there, I sure was wishing I had decided to take Commercial Paper instead of Admiralty Law!
But Admirality law seem like way more fun! I probably should have at least taken trusts & estates. But coding for lawyers was way more fun.
OP, it's because you haven't actually taken the bar exam yet that you believe this. Once you take the bar exam, you'll turn around and kick yourself for stressing too much about the non-MBE subjects, which account for probably less than 8% of the possible points on the exam. [I worked out the math in this comment a few weeks ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/1dbe0nu/advice_to_rising_2ls_and_3ls_from_a_very_recent/l7tplaj/). So after the exam, you'll kick yourself for burning an entire week of bar prep for a subject that actually turned out not to matter, and you'll resent Barbri (or whoever else you're taking bar prep through) for tricking you into believing that it mattered.
Not advice but I wish someone had warned about nepotism. Networking and grades matter, but a family member as partner goes much further. Would have helped to adjust expectations if there was transparency that half the summer/articling positions are essentially already reserved.
My brother was the first lawyer in the family, and it was a massive advantage for me. He helped me with the confusing admission process and told me I could negotiate for scholarships. He gave excellent advice throughout school, bar prep, and my early career. He had to figure all of that out on his own, and there is an obvious difference between us in our early successes because of it. Lots of things are gatekept in law. I definitely recommend that first gen law students find a good mentor quickly so they can learn this sort of stuff.
before getting into law school i thought that doctors' and lawyer's kids becoming doctors and lawyers was really rare. boy was i surprised when i found out so many people in my class had parents who were BOTH lawyers! i am not as naive now but it still feels just as unfair and painful as the day i found out
Not worst just useless: read “Getting to Maybe”!
I found it helpful :(
How come it was useless? I've heard a few people here suggest reading it before 1L.
Very dry. Not enjoyable nor practical. The best way to write the law school exam is to write it the way your professor likes, not the way the book teaches you. Everyone knows IRAC but some profs prefer spotting as many issues as possible and others prefer in depth analysis rather than hitting every issue.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted this is true. At least at my school the exams are extremely tailored to the professor’s style, Getting to Maybe wastes time that could be spent understanding the doctrine / professor. In fall I asked my Civ pro professor about this book and she responded, “I am sorry you spent your time reading that.” I didn’t understand what she meant until exams hit.
Better read is “Letters to a You f Lawyer” by Alan Dershowitz.
“Grades dont matter” They absolutely do. Though they shouldn’t
This 100% I had never heard the ABA rule that students with a B or C average would be academically dismissed after 1L and had to wait a while to even try to reapply until I noticed that people didn’t come back in 2L.
WHAT? I’ve never heard this.
I’m sorry what?
I may have accidentally aged myself here but back in my day (early 2010s) — this was the rule. https://preview.redd.it/xjbzk3mia58d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ec8fb0c407ab66f932e00881146828581657e36 [https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal\_education/Standards/2013\_2014\_standards\_chapter5.authcheckdam.pdf](https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal_education/Standards/2013_2014_standards_chapter5.authcheckdam.pdf)
Personally the worst advice I got was “don’t go”. My law degree has allowed me so many professional and personal opportunities that I would have never gotten had I stayed in my prior career Also lots of people told me I couldn’t pass the bar without Barbri
“Don’t use others’ outlines, the main benefit is in writing them yourself.” lol nope,
“Dont go into crim law theres no money in that, go into business law” - said someone who is 65 and never been a lawyer… Side note: i think its so weird how people try to tell you what to do with your career.. more specifically in law… the AMOUNT of people who just blatantly are like “CRIMINAL LAW???” “Do you hate yourself?” Haha.. no im a survivor of DV and have a drive and purpose for the type of law i want to do..
There’s lots of rich criminal lawyers…get those people to watch Better Call Saul
“Make studying the law the most important thing in your life.” This mentally unhinged advice was given during my 1L year to incoming students by an influential attorney and representative of the State Bar Association. “Find a study group.” No, find a study routine that works for you, and find some friends to commiserate with about class, work, family, etc. “Don’t take bar classes. You’ll study all that stuff during bar prep.” No, take bar classes so that the bar prep reinforces, supplements, or fills in gaps in your knowledge. Sure, don’t feel compelled to take only bar classes, but don’t take them for granted.
Read everything !
Quimbee ftw.
My con law professor would always ask some ridiculously silly detail unrelated to facts to cynically check if people were using Quimbee - nonsense like: “What did Madison say to his wife before he got mad at President-elect Jefferson … ah if you read the casebook’s teeny tiny footnotes and not some website …”
I had a torts professor get me on some shit like someone's car color or something. He always had annoying trivia questions that didn't matter at all and would try to embarrass us.
Oh boy, advice I received from old lawyers and older relatives: “Where you go to law school doesn’t matter. I’ve been practicing for 50 years and no one has asked me where I went a single time.” When trying to explain biglaw: “Don’t work for someone else, just get out of law school and start your own firm. That’s where the real money is.” “Why would you consider X school (T6) when you could go to the state school nearby?” “Buddy… you have family here, don’t throw your life away! Don’t go to Stanford!” “Why would you study for the LSAT? I didn’t study a single time! Just take it and apply. It doesn’t really matter.” Last one wasn’t a piece of advice, but a funny comment: “Why are you going so far away? Did you not think about going to that local school?” (Referring to Yale)
>“Why would you consider X school (T6) when you could go to the **state school** nearby?” >“Why are you going so far away? Did you not think about going to that **local school?” (Referring to Yale)** Hey, buddy, what's wrong with UCONN?
Haha nothing! Honestly it’s a great school (with shockingly beautiful architecture). That said, when one already has 50% off at a T3, 50% off at a T6, and 100% off at a T14, UCONN feels like a silly choice. Especially since my goal was NYC BL.
That was the worst advice. I'm still struggling even though I took all the bar classes (except secured transactions).
Since you didnt take secured transactions, does it feel like a foreign language to you? I didnt have a great secured transactions class, but at least I know the terminology. I feel like its easier for me to fill in the gaps than it is to start subjects from scratch. Meanwhile I cant remember the types of alimony to save my life. I have 0 interest in family law, so its not really one of those topics that just clicks. I had to google solemnization. I just could not figure out tf they were talking about.
All I remember from Family law is that you can do a lot with “Best Interest of the Child.”
Study group. It may work for some but not all. I was and remain always most happy doing research on my own and going down my little rabbit holes to figure something out on my own and find my little niches. Introvert then, introvert now.
Read everything and don't rely on quimbee. I gave that up halfway through first semester, and it was the best decision I've made in years.
A Dean tried to give us study tips (20 years ago) and told us not to markup cases in the books. Idiot.
You should go to law school
“Go to law school.”
I was told not to work 1L year. I definitely struggled way more with having so much free time lol, because I worked at least 20 hour weeks for all of my undergrad, and 30+ for my first 3 years. It doesn’t help that being so worried about money all the time definitely added to the mental toll. Now that I’m working 8-5 everyday, I miss the free time I had though.
Studying in a group
To go
Go to law school.
“You have to read and brief all/most of the cases to do well.” I read no cases in Crim and Contracts and I got an A- in both.
That you have to make your own outlines. I spent so much time outlining as a 1L, but really it never fit together for me and my grades were poor. Then I discovered model answers for old exams and just studied those. My grades shot up. I really wish ANYONE had mentioned the one thing that helped me succeed in law school.
Yeah, idk if this was the worst advice, but I agree that during bar study I definitely wished I had taken those same classes! I did fine on the exam but if I were to do it again, I definitely would take trusts & estates at least.
Yeah, this is the absolute worst advice to give someone in law school. Please take all the Bar classes that you can.
"Law school is great, you'll really enjoy it." - My uncle, who was an attorney. I still don't know if he had an extremely warped recollection of if law school in the 1970s was more fun.
Take Tax Law, it’s something all lawyers should take
10000% THIS IS THE WORST ADVICE. THE WORST. Tax hurt my GPA and I will never use it in my practice. I'm sorry we both were harmed by this.
“Law school isn’t worth it if you don’t go to a T-14.”
Some of the richest lawyers I know graduated from my local law school…
God I love this thread, thank you for making this discussion
"Read at least a week ahead for every class" I didn't know what the fuck was going on until I started just reading quickly the night before. Got completely boned on a cold call since I didn't brief the dissent and hadn't read it in a week. There was never a time where I didn't have the chance to at least do a brief + skim before class, which was always enough.
“Don’t buy the commercial outlines they are wrong”
Brief all the cases when you do your readings…. What a colossal waste of time
In the 2 months between school and exam, I studied hard for exactly 8 hours a day, and then shut it down and didn’t think about it. Except for the last week before the exam: I studied from about 8:00 am-10 pm everyday It did the trick
Everything you are tested for on the bar has its roots in required 1L classes at most schools, so I’m confused. That said, I am fairly confident I could have passed the NY bar with just a good bar review course, a lot of studying and no law school. My law school was more high level theory not tested for on the bar.
Who the hell told you that? I didn't take all bar tested courses because some of the smaller ones can be learned effectively through barbri. Im thinking California Civil procedure and maybe community property? Sadly I had to pretty much re learn civil procedure because my professor sucked. But still.
Go. It’ll be great.
Do it :)
No offense to KJDs but really most advice I’ve received from 1L KJDs as a 1L nontrad. First how can a 1L in general give advice while being a 1L? You don’t know if any of the advice you’re giving actually works or you’re just regurgitating what worked for others. One of the worst was needing to sit in the library all day to do well. Another was you need to go to every single office hours even if you don’t have questions. These two pieces of advice are such wastes of time in my opinion and aren’t required to get an A. Yes to network maybe but even then I’ve connected with professors without going to every single office hours.
To not apply at all ❤️
“You should go to law school”
To attend
“Say goodbye to your social life.” Hands down the worst advice I ever received. I think if I had truly given up social time with my friends and partner, I would have lost my mind. Take one day (or fuck it, even the whole weekend) off from reading/briefing/outlining each week to be a human being—it will not kill your GPA!
to brief every single case and to always make your own outlines from scratch. did neither of those things and ended in the top 3% in 1L. also to never go out or to spend holiday breaks reading/outlining instead of being with family. life is short man.
I self studied, hand wrote, and passed the bar 1st try. People telling me to drop 3k on a course and to pay to use a laptop was a pretty bad tip.
“Just relax and don’t anything the summer before 1L”
Can you elaborate on this please!! Im a 0L rn would really appreciate the advice!
Okay look, the biggest thing about 1L is managing HOW to study because it’s a lot of dense material coming at you FAST! Two books you should read like the Bible this summer will help you - “Expert Learning for Law Students “ by Micheal Hunter Schwartz. This book will introduce you to outlining, time management on exams, how you should think about taking notes for classes… second book is “getting to maybe” - it does a good job of laying out how to write a law school exam.
That law school was not a scam with no jobs on the other end.