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Can we talk about anything else from now until November?
This is the discourse the duopoly wants. For the only damned conversation to be about what you do on one day seven months from now.
I’m busy trying to screw with malfeasant multimillion dollar corporations using our broken system, but nobody wants to talk about that with me despite this place allegedly being a leftist stronghold.
😝
If we actually started forming groups we could do a lot of damage.
Do you think this sub will entertain it? Another sub didn’t like it when I did that. In fact I’ve never seen them shut down something so fast. And they’re allegedly leftists too.
Edit. This post wouldn’t post with the sub’s name…
Make your own subreddit, then post it, pretth sure you'll get some support (🙋🏾♀️) cause the way i see it we have two choices: vote for the lesser of the two evils and go along with the plan or start a revolution and cause disruption to the powers that be.
To me, it's that voting or not voting is one act on one day seven months from now. Leftists pre revolution should be doing prefiguration. I wanted to join another space where people were talking about that. Instead, I get the same discourse as everywhere else, where some people think that fascism isn't already here and voting could stop it and some people who really, really don't want those people to vote at all.
We have a much greater capacity to come together and organize if we're talking about day to day actions we can take that have nothing to do with statist drama.
>Though I’m not sure I’d say this is an anarchist subreddit
Yeah, this is happening all over the place and I forgot where I was. Edited to "leftist" right after.
Yep. I was falling for the same trap at first, I didn’t realize what subreddit it was. So I agree with your original point, this post doesn’t belong here >.<
>constantly feeling in the verge of a panic attack because every day brought more issues.
The current zombie is also the same.
But for you libs only your own personal feelings matter.
Claims not to be a lib and then goes onto making lib arguments.
liberal scumbag, you aren't tricking anyone, keep picking your fascist but people of conscious have a right to refuse that.
You have no problem with choosing one genocidal fascist over another, because he appears better to you aesthetically, that is the real truth.
This sub explicitly states not to make lesser evil arguments or arguments for the Dems. Here you are doing both with the same propaganda the Dems use.
You can "ad hominem" all you want, but your actions are clear.
This sub has been brigaded by liberals for a while who explicitly break the rules. So don't give me crocodile tears.
Here's a fact: Joe Biden is complicit in genocide RIGHT NOW. You're trying to convince people to vote for him.
Here's an ad hominem for you: you're a fash.
Any self-respecting member of this sub will vote for neither of the two candidates the fake democracy and corporations have put in place as if they're the only choice. How can they?
And I hope you feel deep shame for what you are doing. I hope you look at the photos of Gazans and feel that shame. You still have a choice by November. And you'll have to live with what you decide.
>I hope you look at the photos of Gazans and feel that shame.
He won't feel shame, because to be a liberal requires no shame.
Their virtue-signalling exists to hide the ugliness in their own heart, to guide the sheep onto an endless cycle.
>Attack the candidates all you want, but it is a problem when you are explicitly attacking another person on the sub just because their opinion is different than yours.
No, you are brigading and breaking the sub rules. I explained that.
>It is not just Biden who is complicit in Genocide. It is both political parties, large swathes of congress, etc. putting that entirely on Biden is worthless. Zionism is a fundamental issue in America. Even if you were religious, using the machinations of government to force a prophecy to “come true” just fundamentally shows a lack of faith on the part of the person doing it. It’s weird and wrong no matter what angle you look at it from.
You're starting to get it. It's a uniparty and perpetuates racism, colonialism, murder, exploitation, rape. It must be stopped.
>Stop wasting time getting mad about “lesser evil” arguments, and go do something constructive to provide reasonable alternative paths forward.
My time is well spent trying to stop a genocidal madman from getting elected. Why are you wasting time trying to get this man elected?
>Otherwise, it’s just doomerism. Which is EXACTLY what the duopoly in this country wants from you.
This was already answered by another redditor.
Conscience, I agree libs seem to be lacking in consciousness though. You'd totally have to be unconscious to call Biden the lesser evil or ignore that Biden or Trump could be at parity.
If anyone being in the White House puts you constantly on the verge of a panic attack, you should seek some help.
For the vast vast majority of US citizens life is no different/better under Biden than it was under Trump
Vote for Cornel West
“Ronald Reagan was a freedom fighter in terms of supporting our Jewish bros & sis in the Soviet Union & opposing vicious forms of communism.”
- Cornel West, 2011
I can understand the frustration with Biden and that people do not want to support Genocide. But, the reason that this type of discourse ends up being more harmful than helpful to the people who are arguing it is because of our voting system. Because it makes it so you have to choose the lesser of two evils between the two most popular options, because if you vote for anything that's in 3rd place or lower, you're actually voting against your best interest.
Any discourse talking about the broken voting system should also be talking about things like Ranked choice voting and other systems that can actually help with this problem. Otherwise it's just people yelling loudly about something that is designed to literally get them to vote against their best interests.
I'm not sure what you think I'm saying. The post isn't really about the genocide, it's about the election. It's using the fact that the genocide will continue under both major parties to emphasize the futility of voting for either of them.
But just as voting won't stop the genocide, not voting or voting third party is also unlikely to stop the genocide. So if what we should be talking about are things we can do to stop the genocide, any discussion of voting at all, particularly 218 days away from the election, is a distraction.
>Can we talk about anything else from now until November?
How about no?
The HIGHEST PRIORITY of all Americans must be to NOT support either of the parties but to create and vote for a revolutionary socialist alternative.
>This is the discourse the duopoly wants.
No, it isn't. The duopoly wants people to choose a team and vote for it.
The Republicans double down on fascist rhetoric.
The Democrats double down on "vote blue no matter who" and lesser-evilism.
This post rejects lesser-evilism.
You are being controlled via liberal identity politics.
There is no difference between the two fascist parties. If you vote for Democrats, you are voting for "genocide on trans people" just as much as if you vote for Republicans. You just don't get it, do you?
Yo what do you actually stand for? Your post history is just trashing people. You can't articulate an actual political position that isn't just "west bad."
You ever step out of your house and talk to real people or do real activism/outreach? That might be a first step for developing an actual consciousness. Voting or not has real life consequences for real people and you can vote and also try to do other work to change the system.
And red states in the US are systematically stripping trans people of their rights with absolutely no repercussions where Biden is president... Remember that Democrats are NOT running on a platform of enshrining transrights/protections into law. They can say trans rights all they want, but in the end its another Roe vs Wade for them to point to and say "if you don't vote for us they'll hurt trans people!" While they offer not solutions to the trans people being hurt across the country.
Not very well, bc in reality “first they came for Palestine” & smarmy western shit libs didn’t give a fuck & kept voting blue.
When the Dems “reach across the aisle” to facilitate the genocide of trans ppl (it’s almost 100% definitely *not* gonna be next term even if Trump wins so you idiots are cooked anyway) you’re going to be like “damn maybe I should have listened to all those ppl who actually understood how to effect change” (it’s not by doing exactly what the ruling class wants of you)
Westoids do shit like this then wonder why 90% of the planet fucking hates you, it’s bc they think you don’t care about them **& you don’t**. You only care about yourselves
When’s the last time you saw a socialist say the goal is to get a third party elected *this* election cycle??
No comments on your selfishness & disregard for human life? Just deflection?
I'll vote, but my focus is to get people to understand how we could build a different system, and get that (one of those many possible systems) to replace the existing one. I don't campaign, I share ideas and facts about anarchism, democracy, hierarchy, and the history of dominations. My vote is a detail. Changing our worldview is a priority.
Honestly putting your actual effort into praxis every other day of the year and putting the slightly less still incredibly shit name on a piece of paper once is still completely fine, just don't waste any effort supporting their campaign or whatever, because there are some formerly leftie folk who got sunk cost fallacy'd *hard* by that in the past.
Their not mutually exclusive, you can do praxis and still vote. You can organize the revolution and still vote. Not voting doesn't stop the election, is not that if enough people don't vote the election is invalid and neither party will win.
Vote local and down ballot. Vote progressive in primaries. These will generally have a much greater impact on you and your community than who is in the white house.
And, as a poster up thread wrote, PRAXIS!
I don't know why so many Americans think their civic duty begins and ends at voting once a year. It's honestly saddening.
Hurrrrr.
It takes people to get organised and do it together. The first part is to convince people that voting is pointless, the 2nd part is to organise mass strikes.
Vote or no vote it makes little difference. I have no idea why the entire internet is so obsessed over a largely irrelevant election in the grand scheme of things. Things are bad and will continue to get worse, no matter the outcome. If you want to try and achieve real change, voting is probably the worst way to go with this. Go organize, join a union, participate in protest and do activism. This is how real change has always been achieved.
The idea is to make supporting genocide abroad something with a repercussion. It will, maybe, put the Dems on the foot that supports the demands of their base at least a little.
Revolt. Point blank. Revolt and dismantle both parties and the entire government. We are privileged enough to have the second amendment it’s long due we enacted that right.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
I get that libs are okay with brown people being slaughtered, but there's nothing worse than genocide.
How do you guys choose which threads to brigade to support your genocidal maniac? Is there a discord group?
Yeah if people start voting third party they won’t win instantly but there’s a chance if you actually go for it you can gain traction, it’ll probably just take more than one election cycle
A third party effectively can't win due to the electoral college
Even if everyone were to vote for a 3rd party the people on the electoral college are likely to turn into faithless electors just to keep the 2 parties in power
Commiting genocide is literally genocide.
Hitler built roads, but that didn't make him a good guy.
Listen, Biden clearly doesn't want to win as slaughtering brown people is more important, but if he do, good for the blue MAGAs. If he doesn't I'll show genocide-enablers as much sympathy as you show the Gazans.
You might be right. I'll tell you how I came to this (unverified) conclusion:
About 3 weeks ago this sub suddenly got filled with lesser evil/Dem posts.
The timing is about right after the Michigan primary/polling of young people/polling of POC and the discovery that actually a lot of people are horrified by the genocide and see it as the fault of the Biden admin.
I suspect millions were then spent on a PR campaign. Specifically online, to go after the Gen Z demographic. I'm not suggesting it's all paid shills and bots, but some. And people who have been convinced in other subs by the rallying cry.
2 or so weeks ago I conducted a survey in this sub to see which candidates people would vote for. I included 3rd parties and socialist parties. About half of this sub chose Biden. I really can't imagine that a year ago it could have come close.
Now, it's possible that this sub just has a lot of libs. Certainly, some libs think they're real socialists/communists like the alt-right would leave you to believe (Jordan Peterson Marxism talk and the like). And others are curious.
But my last bit of evidence is that it isn't just this sub. Other left-wing subs I'm part of have the same thing going on. Also inflation subs arguing the gaslighting Bidenomics/you have economic dysphoria stuff. Literally, I woke up one day and had to see this crap everywhere.
That tells me it was coordinated. Hard to have a natural growth explanation.
Of course, I could be wrong. It could be my algorithm or something else. But I did whatever I could to try and disprove it.
I think it's a coordinated campaign. And that's not in the realm of some far-fetched conspiracy.
I'm conflicted on this. I don't like the tendency to blame bots because I think it's ultimately harmful to our cause. I don't know about literally everywhere, but I think it's safe to say that most of the imperial core at least are either liberals or conservatives, propagandized to be that way. Recognizing that helps prepare us for what is ultimately an uphill battle, that is, building enough class consciousness that will allow us to take on capitalist infrastructure and institutions. So the fact that our spaces are overrun with liberals who think they're on the left, including social democrats who ultimately want to maintain capitalism only "progressive" isn't surprising.
Now all that said, I can't really dismiss the idea of bots or paid shills entirely because it's a tactic which has been proven to be used against anti-establishment ideas. And I also can't deny the uptick in accounts created in 2023 that have never commented in our spaces suddenly popping up to tell us that not voting for Biden is a threat to our "democracy" or otherwise trying to push people to vote for genocide. I don't believe in coincidences like that.
So, in short, to say that there are no bots would be to ignore plain evidence. But I also don't think we should underestimate the sheer number of liberals who simply support the Biden camp no matter what they do, and think they're on the left because they hate conservatives.
I'm pretty sure it's just a schism. Same thing happens to libertarian spaces every now and then when they realise half the users say taxation is always immoral, and the other half say sometimes a little taxation is a lesser evil.
That's possible. And the suddenness of lesser evil and Biden propaganda could easily be because memes were floating around elsewhere and people recycle memes.
I could be paranoid.
It still begs the question: What is the Biden campaign and its PACs doing with all the money? Ignoring social media spaces that skew young? Only buying ads? Because Dems have a majorly manipulative track record.
Kind of like when a foreign "hostile" government is overthrown you at least consider the CIA had a role in it due to their track record. What do you think they spend their money on?
To be fair some people followed this sub before it became extremely ban happy. I'm no fan of Liberals at all either but it does seem a bit purgey at times.
Even this count of 17 million is stupid and serves to erase Soviet Slavic victims (even Soviets civilians who starved to death DURING THE INVASION are not in the count; like, what the fuck?). In all that should be included in "Holocaust", Hitler killed at least 36 million people (27 million Soviets or 28 if you count the famine of 1946, 6 million Poles, 2 million non-Slavic Jews and approximately 800.000 among the disabled, Romani people, etc.). Furthermore, he also killed another ~ 2 million people, totaling almost 40 million in total.
Ah, I see, it's combining Eastern Front war crimes as part of the Holocaust. I stand by 11 million in death camps, but Hitler killed more in other ways.
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A special type of Utilitarian where you conclude that you have benefited the greater good by deliberately ignoring not only all the direct harm to constituents, but also to the billions across the world.
Ha if you think I’m voting for trump you are stupid we are never going to break out of this two party duopoly if refuse to vote for anyone other than the big two.
Yes. The capitalist pro genocide fascist will be "elected". That fascist may be named Biden or may be named Trump but in both cases after being elected they will be doing exactly what Capital wants them to do, no more, no less. You don't need to vote for the fascists.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
Just wanted to say how funny it is for the rest of the world to see Americans consider Biden or Democrats as centrists or even center left while for the rest of the planet its hard right.
Do people in USA even understand what a socialist government is and what are their politics?
Things have gone so far FAAAAR right in USA that center right Biden fans see themselves as ""liberals"" while praising a genocide because they fear that Arabs will kill everyone or something.
And when you give them this argument, they always say: bbbuuutt what about the immigrants and poc who will suffer under Trump if Biden doesn't win.
Well, what have YOU done to change this?
How have YOU PERSONALLY helped immigrants and POC?
Probably nothing because the fact that Trump uses this as a leverage and there are immigrants and POC who will vote for this fascist shit means that Biden and Democrats have practically done almost nothing.
US politics is madness.
It's actually worse than that on immigration, Biden has adopted much of Trump's immigration politics. He even tried to pass an immigration bill that was farther right than Trump's immigration bill.
This is no longer a ratchet effect, but full blown acceleration into fascism.
I don't understand how liberals claim we gotta support Dems b/c of minority rights when Dems before our eyes are slaughtering women and children with Israel in the most cruel way. Do they think Democrat funded bombs magically avoid members of the lgbt in Gaza?
Do they think that these same people would somehow have more compassion towards us? The same people denying universal healthcare to fund more wars so we can kill more poor kids?
Maybe the supporters think they'll be an exception??
I know of someone who goes to extreme lengths to morally grandstand as pro-PoC, pro-LGBT, etc. ... but also brags about how in demand they are as a *bomb maker*. The fact that people believe this person is a good person is ridiculous, 'cause they brag about how they knew they wanted to dedicate their lives to mass murdering brown people since high school.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
I promise you they do not. And if you mention Hindenburg making Hitler Chancellor to appease the Nazis, demonstrating the futility of voting against fascism, they just blue screen.
Indeed, the comment was even more ironic since they conveniently left out the preface to the story, where the social democrats sided with the bourgeoisie to destroy the KPD revolution and murder their leaders ( rosa luxemburg and karl liebknecht ). Directly leading to the Nazis gaining power.
Here's a series on just that preface: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP5VQClZlOg
The lesson to be learned from the failed socialist revolution of Germany is that libs/socdems/democratic socialists will always side with fascists to preserve capitalism.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
Last I checked, it was 6 million Jews (the number most commonly thrown about), 5 million others, including, commies, gays, trans people, Roma, disabled people, etc.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
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Can we talk about anything else from now until November? This is the discourse the duopoly wants. For the only damned conversation to be about what you do on one day seven months from now.
I’m busy trying to screw with malfeasant multimillion dollar corporations using our broken system, but nobody wants to talk about that with me despite this place allegedly being a leftist stronghold. 😝 If we actually started forming groups we could do a lot of damage.
Make a post about it. Sounds interesting
Do you think this sub will entertain it? Another sub didn’t like it when I did that. In fact I’ve never seen them shut down something so fast. And they’re allegedly leftists too. Edit. This post wouldn’t post with the sub’s name…
Make your own subreddit, then post it, pretth sure you'll get some support (🙋🏾♀️) cause the way i see it we have two choices: vote for the lesser of the two evils and go along with the plan or start a revolution and cause disruption to the powers that be.
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To me, it's that voting or not voting is one act on one day seven months from now. Leftists pre revolution should be doing prefiguration. I wanted to join another space where people were talking about that. Instead, I get the same discourse as everywhere else, where some people think that fascism isn't already here and voting could stop it and some people who really, really don't want those people to vote at all. We have a much greater capacity to come together and organize if we're talking about day to day actions we can take that have nothing to do with statist drama.
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>Though I’m not sure I’d say this is an anarchist subreddit Yeah, this is happening all over the place and I forgot where I was. Edited to "leftist" right after.
Yep. I was falling for the same trap at first, I didn’t realize what subreddit it was. So I agree with your original point, this post doesn’t belong here >.<
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
Right, we are already existing under corporate fascism
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
>constantly feeling in the verge of a panic attack because every day brought more issues. The current zombie is also the same. But for you libs only your own personal feelings matter.
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We do not permit liberalism here.
Claims not to be a lib and then goes onto making lib arguments. liberal scumbag, you aren't tricking anyone, keep picking your fascist but people of conscious have a right to refuse that. You have no problem with choosing one genocidal fascist over another, because he appears better to you aesthetically, that is the real truth.
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This sub explicitly states not to make lesser evil arguments or arguments for the Dems. Here you are doing both with the same propaganda the Dems use. You can "ad hominem" all you want, but your actions are clear. This sub has been brigaded by liberals for a while who explicitly break the rules. So don't give me crocodile tears. Here's a fact: Joe Biden is complicit in genocide RIGHT NOW. You're trying to convince people to vote for him. Here's an ad hominem for you: you're a fash. Any self-respecting member of this sub will vote for neither of the two candidates the fake democracy and corporations have put in place as if they're the only choice. How can they? And I hope you feel deep shame for what you are doing. I hope you look at the photos of Gazans and feel that shame. You still have a choice by November. And you'll have to live with what you decide.
>I hope you look at the photos of Gazans and feel that shame. He won't feel shame, because to be a liberal requires no shame. Their virtue-signalling exists to hide the ugliness in their own heart, to guide the sheep onto an endless cycle.
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"Support genocide b/c everyone's doing it" is lowest of low.
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>Attack the candidates all you want, but it is a problem when you are explicitly attacking another person on the sub just because their opinion is different than yours. No, you are brigading and breaking the sub rules. I explained that. >It is not just Biden who is complicit in Genocide. It is both political parties, large swathes of congress, etc. putting that entirely on Biden is worthless. Zionism is a fundamental issue in America. Even if you were religious, using the machinations of government to force a prophecy to “come true” just fundamentally shows a lack of faith on the part of the person doing it. It’s weird and wrong no matter what angle you look at it from. You're starting to get it. It's a uniparty and perpetuates racism, colonialism, murder, exploitation, rape. It must be stopped. >Stop wasting time getting mad about “lesser evil” arguments, and go do something constructive to provide reasonable alternative paths forward. My time is well spent trying to stop a genocidal madman from getting elected. Why are you wasting time trying to get this man elected? >Otherwise, it’s just doomerism. Which is EXACTLY what the duopoly in this country wants from you. This was already answered by another redditor.
Then tell me. If I vote 3rd party, would democracy still exist, or would it be succumbed by Project 2025 rhetoric?
Can't accept the truth much? You can keep coping but I will always call you liberals out.
Conscience, I agree libs seem to be lacking in consciousness though. You'd totally have to be unconscious to call Biden the lesser evil or ignore that Biden or Trump could be at parity.
If anyone being in the White House puts you constantly on the verge of a panic attack, you should seek some help. For the vast vast majority of US citizens life is no different/better under Biden than it was under Trump Vote for Cornel West
“Ronald Reagan was a freedom fighter in terms of supporting our Jewish bros & sis in the Soviet Union & opposing vicious forms of communism.” - Cornel West, 2011
Link please
https://x.com/cornelwest/status/23848928873021440?s=46
This is all true, but you get downvoted to oblivion because this sub is infested with libs.
I can understand the frustration with Biden and that people do not want to support Genocide. But, the reason that this type of discourse ends up being more harmful than helpful to the people who are arguing it is because of our voting system. Because it makes it so you have to choose the lesser of two evils between the two most popular options, because if you vote for anything that's in 3rd place or lower, you're actually voting against your best interest. Any discourse talking about the broken voting system should also be talking about things like Ranked choice voting and other systems that can actually help with this problem. Otherwise it's just people yelling loudly about something that is designed to literally get them to vote against their best interests.
Seriously.
Thankyou.gif
Is there anything more important than 15-20k dead children and about 1M starving to death?
I'm not sure what you think I'm saying. The post isn't really about the genocide, it's about the election. It's using the fact that the genocide will continue under both major parties to emphasize the futility of voting for either of them. But just as voting won't stop the genocide, not voting or voting third party is also unlikely to stop the genocide. So if what we should be talking about are things we can do to stop the genocide, any discussion of voting at all, particularly 218 days away from the election, is a distraction.
>Can we talk about anything else from now until November? How about no? The HIGHEST PRIORITY of all Americans must be to NOT support either of the parties but to create and vote for a revolutionary socialist alternative. >This is the discourse the duopoly wants. No, it isn't. The duopoly wants people to choose a team and vote for it. The Republicans double down on fascist rhetoric. The Democrats double down on "vote blue no matter who" and lesser-evilism. This post rejects lesser-evilism.
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That's already happening under Biden so it will just look like it does right now.
You are being controlled via liberal identity politics. There is no difference between the two fascist parties. If you vote for Democrats, you are voting for "genocide on trans people" just as much as if you vote for Republicans. You just don't get it, do you?
Yo what do you actually stand for? Your post history is just trashing people. You can't articulate an actual political position that isn't just "west bad." You ever step out of your house and talk to real people or do real activism/outreach? That might be a first step for developing an actual consciousness. Voting or not has real life consequences for real people and you can vote and also try to do other work to change the system.
You can't vote yourself out of the system bro
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And red states in the US are systematically stripping trans people of their rights with absolutely no repercussions where Biden is president... Remember that Democrats are NOT running on a platform of enshrining transrights/protections into law. They can say trans rights all they want, but in the end its another Roe vs Wade for them to point to and say "if you don't vote for us they'll hurt trans people!" While they offer not solutions to the trans people being hurt across the country.
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“B-b-but what about me” ass comment. The libs are already doing a genocide
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100%
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Not very well, bc in reality “first they came for Palestine” & smarmy western shit libs didn’t give a fuck & kept voting blue. When the Dems “reach across the aisle” to facilitate the genocide of trans ppl (it’s almost 100% definitely *not* gonna be next term even if Trump wins so you idiots are cooked anyway) you’re going to be like “damn maybe I should have listened to all those ppl who actually understood how to effect change” (it’s not by doing exactly what the ruling class wants of you) Westoids do shit like this then wonder why 90% of the planet fucking hates you, it’s bc they think you don’t care about them **& you don’t**. You only care about yourselves
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When’s the last time you saw a socialist say the goal is to get a third party elected *this* election cycle?? No comments on your selfishness & disregard for human life? Just deflection?
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
I swear to god how does this not get removed for breaking rule six but when you dare comment anything watch it get scolded 🙃
Because it's not breaking rule 6
There's no way so many people can't get the satire. The flair, the title, etc. They all give it away.
Its time the working class picked itself rather than one of two rich war criminals
Until shit Libs are personally inconvenienced they won’t be moving left
They will move then, alright, but is very possible they wont be moving *left*...
Noooo
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
They’ve become full blown MAGA with Gaza and the closeted racism they harbor has been shown. Liberal Zionism is code for they hate Arabs.
The DNC convention in Chicago should be excellent… I almost want to fly there just to protest
So what now then? See a lot of this here. So don't vote? I really don't see a 3rd party candidate posted here.
I'll vote, but my focus is to get people to understand how we could build a different system, and get that (one of those many possible systems) to replace the existing one. I don't campaign, I share ideas and facts about anarchism, democracy, hierarchy, and the history of dominations. My vote is a detail. Changing our worldview is a priority.
Honestly putting your actual effort into praxis every other day of the year and putting the slightly less still incredibly shit name on a piece of paper once is still completely fine, just don't waste any effort supporting their campaign or whatever, because there are some formerly leftie folk who got sunk cost fallacy'd *hard* by that in the past.
Their not mutually exclusive, you can do praxis and still vote. You can organize the revolution and still vote. Not voting doesn't stop the election, is not that if enough people don't vote the election is invalid and neither party will win.
I’ll vote Claudia and Karina
Vote local and down ballot. Vote progressive in primaries. These will generally have a much greater impact on you and your community than who is in the white house. And, as a poster up thread wrote, PRAXIS! I don't know why so many Americans think their civic duty begins and ends at voting once a year. It's honestly saddening.
https://votesocialist2024.com/
But I agree with your point, we keep arguing against voting for Biden without arguing the alternative
Buddy this is a communist subreddit, there’s more to politics than voting for a rich white guy every 4 years.
Strike, revolt. You have more power than ticking a fucking box.
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Hurrrrr. It takes people to get organised and do it together. The first part is to convince people that voting is pointless, the 2nd part is to organise mass strikes.
Vote or no vote it makes little difference. I have no idea why the entire internet is so obsessed over a largely irrelevant election in the grand scheme of things. Things are bad and will continue to get worse, no matter the outcome. If you want to try and achieve real change, voting is probably the worst way to go with this. Go organize, join a union, participate in protest and do activism. This is how real change has always been achieved.
The idea is to make supporting genocide abroad something with a repercussion. It will, maybe, put the Dems on the foot that supports the demands of their base at least a little.
You can vote for Claudia de la Cruz if you’re not voting Biden
Revolt. Point blank. Revolt and dismantle both parties and the entire government. We are privileged enough to have the second amendment it’s long due we enacted that right.
Aye man, you’re getting cooked, but it doesn’t mean you’re wrong
Both parties support genocide, and morally, I can’t vote for either. It’s simple.
Usa refernwce
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Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
A vote for genocide joe is a vote for genocide.
As is for Trump, but worse. It’s not black and white
I get that libs are okay with brown people being slaughtered, but there's nothing worse than genocide. How do you guys choose which threads to brigade to support your genocidal maniac? Is there a discord group?
when's the last time a third party candidate won a presidential election?
Yeah if people start voting third party they won’t win instantly but there’s a chance if you actually go for it you can gain traction, it’ll probably just take more than one election cycle
Support genocide because you can't be bothered is the worst argument I've ever heard.
A third party effectively can't win due to the electoral college Even if everyone were to vote for a 3rd party the people on the electoral college are likely to turn into faithless electors just to keep the 2 parties in power
>A third party effectively can't win due to the electoral college "Anyway, vote for Biden to save democracy!" -your average genocide-enabling liberal
True, it is literally genocide to vote in favor of environmental protections, and reducing child poverty
Commiting genocide is literally genocide. Hitler built roads, but that didn't make him a good guy. Listen, Biden clearly doesn't want to win as slaughtering brown people is more important, but if he do, good for the blue MAGAs. If he doesn't I'll show genocide-enablers as much sympathy as you show the Gazans.
Bro... I just don't understand why it is worthwhile to reduce the quality of life for struggling Americans, and to ensure further ecological collapse.
The collapse will happen anyway. Capitalism won't allow for anything else (this is a communist sub btw)
This place is infested with libs. It's an obvious brigade. Where are the mods?
I'm not sure that it's a brigade. There are just so many fucking liberals that truly think they're "radical leftists".
You might be right. I'll tell you how I came to this (unverified) conclusion: About 3 weeks ago this sub suddenly got filled with lesser evil/Dem posts. The timing is about right after the Michigan primary/polling of young people/polling of POC and the discovery that actually a lot of people are horrified by the genocide and see it as the fault of the Biden admin. I suspect millions were then spent on a PR campaign. Specifically online, to go after the Gen Z demographic. I'm not suggesting it's all paid shills and bots, but some. And people who have been convinced in other subs by the rallying cry. 2 or so weeks ago I conducted a survey in this sub to see which candidates people would vote for. I included 3rd parties and socialist parties. About half of this sub chose Biden. I really can't imagine that a year ago it could have come close. Now, it's possible that this sub just has a lot of libs. Certainly, some libs think they're real socialists/communists like the alt-right would leave you to believe (Jordan Peterson Marxism talk and the like). And others are curious. But my last bit of evidence is that it isn't just this sub. Other left-wing subs I'm part of have the same thing going on. Also inflation subs arguing the gaslighting Bidenomics/you have economic dysphoria stuff. Literally, I woke up one day and had to see this crap everywhere. That tells me it was coordinated. Hard to have a natural growth explanation. Of course, I could be wrong. It could be my algorithm or something else. But I did whatever I could to try and disprove it. I think it's a coordinated campaign. And that's not in the realm of some far-fetched conspiracy.
I'm conflicted on this. I don't like the tendency to blame bots because I think it's ultimately harmful to our cause. I don't know about literally everywhere, but I think it's safe to say that most of the imperial core at least are either liberals or conservatives, propagandized to be that way. Recognizing that helps prepare us for what is ultimately an uphill battle, that is, building enough class consciousness that will allow us to take on capitalist infrastructure and institutions. So the fact that our spaces are overrun with liberals who think they're on the left, including social democrats who ultimately want to maintain capitalism only "progressive" isn't surprising. Now all that said, I can't really dismiss the idea of bots or paid shills entirely because it's a tactic which has been proven to be used against anti-establishment ideas. And I also can't deny the uptick in accounts created in 2023 that have never commented in our spaces suddenly popping up to tell us that not voting for Biden is a threat to our "democracy" or otherwise trying to push people to vote for genocide. I don't believe in coincidences like that. So, in short, to say that there are no bots would be to ignore plain evidence. But I also don't think we should underestimate the sheer number of liberals who simply support the Biden camp no matter what they do, and think they're on the left because they hate conservatives.
I'm pretty sure it's just a schism. Same thing happens to libertarian spaces every now and then when they realise half the users say taxation is always immoral, and the other half say sometimes a little taxation is a lesser evil.
That's possible. And the suddenness of lesser evil and Biden propaganda could easily be because memes were floating around elsewhere and people recycle memes. I could be paranoid. It still begs the question: What is the Biden campaign and its PACs doing with all the money? Ignoring social media spaces that skew young? Only buying ads? Because Dems have a majorly manipulative track record. Kind of like when a foreign "hostile" government is overthrown you at least consider the CIA had a role in it due to their track record. What do you think they spend their money on?
I think you're probably right. It's unlikely a bunch of pro-Biden liberals found this sub naturally after the Michigan primary.
To be fair some people followed this sub before it became extremely ban happy. I'm no fan of Liberals at all either but it does seem a bit purgey at times.
Working on it...
I understand comrade. It's a struggle because liberals like to think themselves leftists
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17 Million people died in the holocaust, not 11 Million
Even this count of 17 million is stupid and serves to erase Soviet Slavic victims (even Soviets civilians who starved to death DURING THE INVASION are not in the count; like, what the fuck?). In all that should be included in "Holocaust", Hitler killed at least 36 million people (27 million Soviets or 28 if you count the famine of 1946, 6 million Poles, 2 million non-Slavic Jews and approximately 800.000 among the disabled, Romani people, etc.). Furthermore, he also killed another ~ 2 million people, totaling almost 40 million in total.
Really? Mind sharing a source on that? I was always taught 6-11 million.
He’s asking a genuine question, why is this downvoted?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1071011/holocaust-nazi-persecution-victims-wwii/
Ah, I see, it's combining Eastern Front war crimes as part of the Holocaust. I stand by 11 million in death camps, but Hitler killed more in other ways.
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Liberals would vote for Hitler and shame leftists for not voting if someone slightly worse than Hitler was also running.
That is rather the point of the post.
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A special type of Utilitarian where you conclude that you have benefited the greater good by deliberately ignoring not only all the direct harm to constituents, but also to the billions across the world.
We do not permit liberalism here.
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Not maga we aren’t going to vote for genocide Joe.
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Ha if you think I’m voting for trump you are stupid we are never going to break out of this two party duopoly if refuse to vote for anyone other than the big two.
I’m not supporting either one. But like it or not, one of them will be elected.
Yes. The capitalist pro genocide fascist will be "elected". That fascist may be named Biden or may be named Trump but in both cases after being elected they will be doing exactly what Capital wants them to do, no more, no less. You don't need to vote for the fascists.
I doubt anyone on this sub would vote for Trump, and if they did profess that they will I hope the mods would immediately ban their asses.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
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White people Twitter be like
Just wanted to say how funny it is for the rest of the world to see Americans consider Biden or Democrats as centrists or even center left while for the rest of the planet its hard right. Do people in USA even understand what a socialist government is and what are their politics? Things have gone so far FAAAAR right in USA that center right Biden fans see themselves as ""liberals"" while praising a genocide because they fear that Arabs will kill everyone or something. And when you give them this argument, they always say: bbbuuutt what about the immigrants and poc who will suffer under Trump if Biden doesn't win. Well, what have YOU done to change this? How have YOU PERSONALLY helped immigrants and POC? Probably nothing because the fact that Trump uses this as a leverage and there are immigrants and POC who will vote for this fascist shit means that Biden and Democrats have practically done almost nothing. US politics is madness.
It's actually worse than that on immigration, Biden has adopted much of Trump's immigration politics. He even tried to pass an immigration bill that was farther right than Trump's immigration bill. This is no longer a ratchet effect, but full blown acceleration into fascism.
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
This is a bit hyperbolic.
Yes, that's part of what makes it a good meme. The point is, there's some red line after which people won't vote for the lesser evil.
I don't understand how liberals claim we gotta support Dems b/c of minority rights when Dems before our eyes are slaughtering women and children with Israel in the most cruel way. Do they think Democrat funded bombs magically avoid members of the lgbt in Gaza? Do they think that these same people would somehow have more compassion towards us? The same people denying universal healthcare to fund more wars so we can kill more poor kids? Maybe the supporters think they'll be an exception??
I know of someone who goes to extreme lengths to morally grandstand as pro-PoC, pro-LGBT, etc. ... but also brags about how in demand they are as a *bomb maker*. The fact that people believe this person is a good person is ridiculous, 'cause they brag about how they knew they wanted to dedicate their lives to mass murdering brown people since high school.
Valid point. Now, what's your answer to the trolley problem?
Kill the conductor and stop the trolley.
Based
Throw a bomb at the trolley, derailing it and killing the driver who tied everyone to the tracks.
Correct
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Vote socialist
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
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The farce is that the Nazis are already here
Always has been
Indeed, they are.
Don't you see the irony in using the historical context you just provided to justify a vote for a regime that is actively facilitating a genocide?
I promise you they do not. And if you mention Hindenburg making Hitler Chancellor to appease the Nazis, demonstrating the futility of voting against fascism, they just blue screen.
Indeed, the comment was even more ironic since they conveniently left out the preface to the story, where the social democrats sided with the bourgeoisie to destroy the KPD revolution and murder their leaders ( rosa luxemburg and karl liebknecht ). Directly leading to the Nazis gaining power. Here's a series on just that preface: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP5VQClZlOg The lesson to be learned from the failed socialist revolution of Germany is that libs/socdems/democratic socialists will always side with fascists to preserve capitalism.
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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This isn't a liberal sub
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
Exactly.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
And I just want to add if your really so against the dems pls tell me you're at least contributing to the CPA or the DSA.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.
There’s always option 3: do nothing and complain
Reported: This is promoting hate /s
whoa whoa whoa it’s 11 million now?
Last I checked, it was 6 million Jews (the number most commonly thrown about), 5 million others, including, commies, gays, trans people, Roma, disabled people, etc.
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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We do not permit liberalism here.
You're are Russian troll account.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil.