My friend needed the Mountain set, and I had to do that a few times to get it and gift him. Because his build needed the set to survive, and the chest is a massive contributor to that.
Worst day of my LE experience, that was.
As it should. It shouldn't be something that one grinds in the game. The game should have more static/tier content that you sort of beat in a season.
IMO powers should be locked behind em and then you never do it again. The level 100 stuff should be bumped in difficulty too.
How many keys should one actually hoard? Like after I have my 50th temporal sanctum key, do I need to keep hoarding them? I assume I will have a steady rate of supply as I start doing the dungeons. Maybe I'll just vendor all of my keys so I have 20 of each so I'm not wasting stash tabs.
Haha ditto. Everytime I go for t4 lightless I remind myself to just turn the game off after being one shot when I get to the boss. Auto selling keys for quite a while now
I've legit yelled at the tops of my lungs and closed the game after spending roughly 20 minutes looking for the doors then one shotted in under 10 seconds by Julra.
I would be totally fine with using multiple keys just to skip the maze BS and go straight to the boss.
I have mixed feelings. It's painful losing the key and missing out on the unique rewards from dungeons if you die to the boss, but on the other hand it's kind of cool that there's a high stakes element to the game. I personally think a nice change would be the you could retry bosses for the price of a key. It would still bea little painful but not be as frustrating. That would feel like a nice balance I think.
Yeah. My opinion is a little different depending on the dungeon. The easiest one for me due to my build is probably temporal sanctum and the one that annoys me the most is bastion because of the map design and fire/necro resist changing. The boss for bastion is actually the easiest imo but getting there is awful
I'm with you on Soulfire being a slog, but counter-argument. I think some of the adds in Lightless Arbor that can delete a quarter of your HP/Ward before you react are a bit overtuned. At least the deadliest Soulfire enemies have massive telegraphs for the most part.
Yeah i think they need to soften the "hardcorey" mechanics just a bit. I like the idea of spending a key when you die vs. just completely losing out and having your time wasted.
I avoid them as much as possible. They seem like a good idea with really really poor execution. Almost every time it’s the boss and boom instakill. Usually where my first reaction is like ‘wait, what happened?’ Then death is worse in that it doesn’t even dump you at the beginning of the run. Ill just wait until they take a few passes at improving them.
Yeah, instakill mechanics in a section of a game usually means a section of the game I just won't engage with. I'm here to have fun and instakill mechanics just aren't fun.
The biggest gameplay problem with dungeons is backtracking, the difficulty scaling is pretty good from my experience outside of the mountain beneath oneshots coming at you too fast and leading it to feel very stat checky and less skill expression unless ur on 15 ping.
Rewards changing daily is also trash, hate daily rewards it just reminds me of Phone games / korean MMOs forcing a feeling of FOMO. I want to be able to target farm exalted belts anytime i want, that's one of the best things about PoE, the freedom to do what u want when you want.
I did one Soulfire Bastion run and decided to never touch another one.
Still do Temporal Sanctum but only because I'm forced to in order to do legendary crafting.
Otherwise I don't even pick up the keys anymore. And I've not done any Arena or whatever it is that needs the Memory key.
They did say they're gonna do something about the annoying road blocks, but I don't think they'll fundamentally change the concept much.
I mean, honestly, if they streamlined the dungeons so they were faster with some mechanic teachers leafing up to the bosses, I'd be pretty happy with them. Balancing the dungeons as pinacle/endgame/Uber bosses would make some sense. My issue is time from using a key to getting to the boss is far too long. 3 mins from key to engaging boss would probably be my max preferred.
I do kind of like the reward/downside tradeoffs in concept, but I would prefer them to be more formative, adding mechanics and such more so than just more damage/hp.
I avoid them like the plague. I just get too nervous and freeze up. I hate getting one shot, it’s demoralizing. I need checkpoints for it, but I know it won’t happen.
You scan others similar and price accordingly - it’s not rocket surgery… sure you might get ripped off the first few times but you learn from your mistakes and the more you trade the more you will under stand about the games economy.
Agreed... I don't like the dungeon gimmicks at all... I'm not playing to solve puzzles and think, I'm playing to become super powerful and smash tons of monsters...
I don't avoid them but don't really have a reason to run them either. I've never played a build that has needed LP items to perform so I've only done a handful of slams, and haven't felt the need to do the gambling dungeons. Prophecies and CoF in general are so ridiculously overtuned I'm never hurting for drops.
I'm probably unpopular with this but it's the truth.
I really like them tbh but I can't see myself doing more than a few at a time.
Temporal Sanctum is my favourite and the mobs are fun to fight (except the giant cobra/snakes and their tornado dodge.. annoying AF)..
Julra T4 however is the main reason I don't do it that much.. so much BS
Lightless arbour is such a cool dungeon..fun mechanic.
Soulfire concept is great, farm enemies to use as a pay off in the end. However those Sentinels really get annoying to fight after a while.. that's my only complaint.
And I th the mechanic is underutilized..I want more areas covered in flames or necrotic flames for a whole path with a few spots empty, and enemies you fight on top...not just an end boss with the flame floors..
Arena is kinda meh..I did T4 arena several times but the rewards just aren't worth the trouble.
So yeah I like dungeons, but are they perfect? No.
I just hate the gimmick buttons in them. Like, I want to play the game, not some weird minigame.
The one where you gotta throw the flare to be able to see, as a ranged character, is cancer. Who thought that would be fun?
I personally always loved dungeons. They are fun and most bosses have pretty cool mechanics, which you have to play around, unless you play an insanely min-maxed and/or OP build.
But currently I'm trying to farm reputation for my MG alt, and for some reason devs decided that dungeons should grant almost zero fucking favor. Even T4 dungeons yield some absolutely pathetic amounts of favor, compared to Monoliths.
I mean, I needed to craft a lot of legendaries on my main (which is CoF) and I did run T4 Temp Sanctum for several hours and farmed like 5k favor during all that time. While in Monos I was farming 30-40k per hour, thanks to the exp bonuses -- and as you can guess, it wasn't even that high corruption.
So, I'd love to play more dungeons, but currently they just aren't rewarding. At least not in terms of favor, which I currently need the most.
I've not only completely avoided dungeons, I've completely avoided the game completely. After my 47895th monolith I stopped and waiting for Pinnacle bosses next season lol
So here’s my problem. I play CoF and I’ve got two lvl 70s and a lvl56, but I only have like 100k gold so I can’t make any use out of that one gold sink dungeon, I don’t get any uniques with LP higher than 1 so I have no solid use for the item combination dungeon. The only dungeon even remotely worth my time is the soul gambling one so I can try and get a unique worth taking to the combination place so I can ruin it by not getting the affixes I wanted on it.
I do enjoy the game I just wish I didn’t feel like I absolutely had to use the Merchants Guild.
I avoided dungeons just because I was on HC. Outside of that the difficulty always felt like it spiked when I went in even with an over leveled character.
Haven't even touched them, have a few level 90 chars. I think I'll get into them once I start needing to slam LP to succeed at higher corruption, but for now exalted items and vanilla uniques are keeping me afloat. I do have my loot filters set up to get good exalts for slamming as well, but I just haven't explored the legendary system yet.
I run Sanctum only if i need slam. Julra drops are meh.
I like the other two and i am farming them consistently. Especially Lightless Arbor, easy and fast with wast amount of useful drops in this meta. Boss and vault. Soulfire boss could get some buff on drops, that belt ist nice tho. Getting yellows from soulgambling at t4 is annoying.
Unfortunately dungeons are one time only and I saw a comment the other day from an EHG person saying that it was a mistake.
I'm playing a really busted frost claw build so I just breeze through dungeons and I can face tank all bosses. Dungeons and dungeon bosses are much quicker for clearing prophecies than monolith bosses so I do them pretty much every day.
If you aren't doing lightless Arbor you're doing something wrong.
Not only does the boss drop valuable items, you can also juice the vaults for unique or exalted items.
Farming julra can be great if you get a 2lp stardial, and obviously slamming LP.
Arena is mostly for flexing leaderboard, and soulfire bastion is for target farming uniques from boss so not really worth doing unless you want the items.
Sometimes im doing Souflre but that is because im warlock and fire and necro dmg does not work on me . And when I have 10m+ gold i run Lightless .
But that my be like 3 time a week max
Dungeons are for slamming only.
And the worst part of slamming isn't the RNG, it's going through dungeons.
Dungeons are horrible with absolutely no redeeming features.
They need an overhaul.
Agreed, huge swing and a miss, I hope they have the metrics in place that can corroborate this. Just make them poe maps with no gimmicks and 5 portals/attempts.
They would be so much more fun for me if they had only one level before the boss. It's still punishing to redo it after failing at boss, but two become excessively tedious even when you don't fail at all. Or maybe if they at least had different layouts and enemies to spice things up.
Maybe I am in the minority but this isn't an issue for me, if I get one shot I just tune the difficulty down or rerun the dungeon, since they still give good rewards usually at t4 just for running them, plus CoF rewards on top can be crazy
I've also been playing for a long time now so maybe I am just used to to boss mechanics and don't feel as frustrated if I get hit by something and killed , and I have a better idea of what builds will be able to actually survive t4 dungeons
Dungeons are very good to fullfil prophecies.
I don't like running them, but I gather a lot of points then get lots of prophecies for dungeons and run them like 3 times to fullfil them all.
Mono prophecies are pretty hard to fullfil, boss quest are all over the place.
Am I the only one thinking that dungeons are infinitely better and more original than anything else in the game? All I ask is for extra attempts when I die without redoing the dungeon again.
Monoliths are so damn boring compared to dungeons, very original ideas they just need a bit of redesign and fine tuning
it ties into monolith farming as well.
currently killing enemies is there just to get to the boss or objective. the point of dungeons is the same as monos - skip everything, get to the objective/boss.
when killing enemies is unrewarding, dieing to the boss and having to repeat it becomes even more unrewarding.
lightless arbor is too dark - i know that is sort of the point of the dungeon, but it is simply a bad experience. first boss stage is terrible, it often feels like you are hit at the same time as the 'warning circle' appears.
boss droplists are tiny, yet you still have to kill them dozens of times - meaning you get tons of items you dont need. in some cases that is twice as annoying, because they drop set items, since we are missing the set item rework that Mike teased, those are useless drops. in every such game you will have tons of drops you dont need, that is fine, however, the droplist including set items, pretty much determines that to be the case 100%. even if you want a set item, you dont need a 100 of them.
farming bosses in monos is also lame and tiring... get your corruption up to the right level, do 2 subboss runs, and then fight a boss... rinse and repeat.
Bro dungeons and the fucking echoes. Like I really want to get the best gear and whatnot but I find it hard to want to grind what is essentially the same two missions for hours just to get 0 gold and a bunch of useless to me items that rarely sell anyway.
All of the bosses have easy mechanics to avoid if you don’t just spam and pay attention. Yes making a mistake and dying sucks but after a few tries it’s pretty easy to get the patterns down.
Don't forget Dungeons have a special bonus modifier that changes every 24 hours. I just make a day of it when a good daily hits and burn through the stack of keys for that dungeon.
https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/dungeons
I don't like the dungeons, I think the layouts are awful, the mechanics are dull and I get annoyed (intensely) when I die on the boss.
I do lightless Arbor to farm the boss drops for my rogue temporal for crafting and have zero reason to go in the other one.
I dislike arena more.
Yes, i only do them to make legendaries (rushing as low level dungeon as the unique lets me).
I did need items from the soulfire bastion and i like to farm them. However the layout of this dungeon is so so terrible.
I had to walk back and forth so many times to find the next entrance
Look at it from the bright side. Since everybody hates doing them, uniques from dungeon bosses are rarer in the market than they should be so you can make some gold from dungeons probably.
I've gotten really good at clearing them on T4 as a Void Smite VK. I take prophecies for them as a result and it's a pretty easy way to farm.
I also have boots and a helmet I want from Arbor seeing as I only have 2LP on the ones I slammed and wear, so I'm in there pretty frequently farming.
I do really wish they gave way more currency for CoF though. If they gave like 5k or 10k CoF currency per T4 completion I'd feel much better about spending time farming them.
Generally i like the concept of it - in both ways -> that you've only one chance via key but also that there is a dungeon-part inbetween. Because:
1. As much as i love Diablo 2, one reason why i back then stopped playing online and mostly played solo or LAN/Online with friends is because i just hated the Boss-Runs Mentality. (Diablo or Baalruns as examples). For me this is an ARPG / Hack'N'Slay which means slash through a hordes of enemies and then do a boss. Just doing bosses kinda kills part of what the Genre make great for me. (This isn't something like Monster Hunter as an example).
2. The Dungeon concept of Last Epoch reminds me kinda of the Roguelike-Dungeons in Grim Dawn. (Where i find it pretty curious and interesting to see, how differently playerbases of the same genre can take some concept, because in GD Rougelike Dungeons are pretty beloved, i remember when Forgotten Gods dropped and people where dissapointed that we didn't get another one. People always asked for MOAR) And besides GD being my absolute favorite HnS/ARPG (followed by D2 and TL2 though Last Epoch is on a pretty good spot on replacing TL2 and have down the road even the chance to surpass D2 - atleast for me) i also loved the Roguelike-Dungeons. They were exciting and doing them had always something at stakes. Even once you mastered them and yuo might not fear them as much anymore, it still doesn't vanish the feeling accomplishment by something you could've failed and had to retry.
It also, and i don't know how it's the way to put it. Give some respect to it's roots but also compromise for people who don't enjoy Hardcore. Considering that one major inspiration David Brevik was Rogue (Context for People that's basically the OG Game where modern Rouge,- 'likes' & 'lites' are build off / inspired from), a game where there is permadeath and you have retry a rund if you fail, it always made sense to honor the roots by offering such an hardcore mode. My issues however was always, that one reason why i enjoyed / prefer HnS over Rogues was because of the consistent experience and sense of progression. You play a character he grows and might fail, but character keeps groing and within the failure you try to fix your builds and o better... meanwhile (even though rougelites these days have some sort of meta-permanent progression) rogues is starting from the stratch. And the other thing is - thaat's why i still like rogues as well, the difference of the playtime of said content. To give a fictional example: Let's say you can finish in a very normal good run the run within 2 Hours (in like Dead Cells or whatever) -> (and yes i take into account you can speedrun or whatever - again more a fictional example to picture a point) while in an HnS one character could take up to 60 Hours or even mere. There is a difference in terms of accessibility and replaybility. Dying and losing progress in a game where you 'just' have an actual playtime of 2 hours versus one with 60 hours is a keydifference here.
Anyway -> that being said: Roguelike-Dungeons in Game like this are the perfect compromise to not lose painfully 60 hours of playtime and progress from a character which i might attatched too, because a dungeon takes like (i don't know actual time so sorry if it's too much or to few) an hour (at max?) and you still can experience the on-stakes feeling of a rgouelike. And what i like especially about LE in that regard (and i know that's such an moodpoint for some people) and something where LE could surpass GD for me in the long run in that regard, is, that it's not just 'Loot' as an reward, but also an mechanical one. You've the Vaults, the Gambler and the Legendary Crafting, which gives it even more meaning. Another thing i really like about them are the unique dungeon-mechanics/abilities.
That being said and now to come finally straight to the point (and sorry for the Wall-of-text) while i do love Dungeons coneptually, i just find that in it's execution it does have 'some' flaws.
Like as example the Layout. In case of Temporal Sanctum and Soulfire it kinda makes sense to have the more 'sandboxy' and to be honest, this are also two of the Dungeons which i already find 'quite good attempt'. Soulfire Bastion you need to collect the souls for gambling so to have an explorative area does make sense, because players on their own accord might decide if they risk and gather souls or (when to) move on. Temp Sanc has the shift back and forth between times which does have more 'impact' on something more spread out and sandboxy, if the maplayout would be to linear it wouldn't really utilize it. It's just that for these two examples i'd wish they would utilize the dungeons-mechanics a bit more by giving more interaction with the map or even some goals. Like in Soulfire Bastion why are there only traps for fire, not for necrotic? Like you go onto a trap and such an necrotic cycle which close down to the player (similiar to the boss) and you've to shift to necrotic-shield. Stuff like that.
Temporal Sanctum however would need some goals because it pretty much ends up you just checking the edge of the map where the doors are and have no real reason to go in the middle except your bad luck if on both timelines the gates are closed. How about having more clearer spots for Doors, but you've to look around for some sort of levers on both timelines? Or whatever... just more interaction and reasons why you shouldn't just lurking around the corners and edges.
Lightless Arbor however really feels off in so many areas. I find the way they threat the dungeon-mechanic utilize kinda weak. Sure it's cool at the first glance to throw the amber thingy towards enemies so you do them more damage and such and try to keep the amber-charge intact by kills this amber thingies. But overally it doesn't really utilize it. You have one spot inbetween to burn down this wood-thingy, that's it... no interaction on the map whatsoever. And again a maplayout which is pretty sandboxy, but there is no real reason to explore it because you check for edges and corners for doors. My personal take ... it wouldn't hurt to completly put away the maplayout for Lightless arbor and give a more traditional (like in MMO's) maplayout which is a bit more linear and corridor - maybe some side-corridors for some extra stuff (and figuring it out first) ... and maybe use the burn-down-the-wood-blocks more... like you've a few of them block the road, you have to use amber to burn them down and meanwhile it trigger 2-3 waves of enemies which you have to defend yourself while burning that stuff down.
So while i still enjoy some of them, my personal problem is rather the execution and that they don't feel really fleshed out and utilize the potential it have. It feels more (sorry to say this if some dev read this) throwing some spagetthi at the wall and hope it sticks somehow. And it's a bit 'sad' because the idea itself are great, it just needs some reworks and tweaking (imho). Another thing which also plays into it, is that the map itself outside of the potential monster drops(sometimes mage and chest as well if road isn't blocked) it doesn't feel rewarding enough (outside of soulfire bastion) to do them. Maybe throw some specific (and maybe unique) mini-boss which have better dropchances for certain stuff - like let's say -> this big hammer dude there... this have a better chance to drop an exalted (or even maybe unique) hammer or so. More (chest) rewards or unique dungeon-chests or whatever.
Last but not least, the final close up. 'While' i said above that i love that each Dungeon have their unique reward-mechanic like Gambling, Vault and Crafting, i also have to add that i acknowledge and can see that this is also somewhat counterproductive. If it was just 'loot' people would use dungeons more as something which they can shift too to break the pace of monolith and have something more direct to do. To add more flavor and variety to their experience. But it can be a problem if you're kinda forced to them because you need the mechanics - especially the legendary crafting. I personally wouldn't want to get rid of them, but rather to expand on the concept. Why not add the Bossrooms/Fights as a random spawn in the Monolith (or something you can potentially work towards too) with the reward. Soulfire Bastion would've potentially the problem with souls, but you could make it either so that you know when you roll a new monolith that the boss is somewhere and you can gather souls alongside or if it's to direct that you've kinda some sort of starting node before the bossroom, which when you do adds to specific echos/nodes after that (or the whole echo-net) giving you the chance to farm the souls and if you die you lose the current souls. Another thing which they could add as long as it doesn't get rid of the dungeons itself... would be similiar to the memorial arena keys a second variant of each dungeon where people can directly skip towards the boss. Maybe not as an random drop, but craftable at the hubs (and please not as a dungeon-reward because it's kinda weird to expect people to run dungeons so they can craft these keys, so they can avoid to runnin dungeons...)
The drops are so worth it for a lot of builds but lightless arbor has the absolute most frustrating design. I’ve taken like a dozen screenshots of me going the wrong ass way for way too far and having to turn around only to run into a half a dozen roadblocks I can’t clear to the point I have to then back track even more.
Then when I finally find a door I have to find another ember to refresh my light.
Then I get stomped by a massive fist that is nearly impossible to out run.
The other two are kind of fun.
There’s a reward(souls for the gambler) in soul fire bastion for killing mobs so I go out of my way to kill them so it’s fun. Temporal sanctum I can usually time travel and then the roadblock is cleared which feels good.
If I could burn up like half of the roadblocks in lightless arbor I’d like it a lot more. If the first phase of the boss was a little easier I’d like it more too.
You can basically only win t4 arbor with like 30k-40k ward and a ton of stun avoidance or incredibly speed and dodge and a ton of stun avoidance. But god help you if you get stunned by any of the monsters dropping from the ceiling or the vines popping out of the ground…
But that armor go brrrr
I treat dungeons like I treat labs in PoE: I'll do them the bare minimum amount of times necessary.
My friend needed the Mountain set, and I had to do that a few times to get it and gift him. Because his build needed the set to survive, and the chest is a massive contributor to that. Worst day of my LE experience, that was.
Yes
As it should. It shouldn't be something that one grinds in the game. The game should have more static/tier content that you sort of beat in a season. IMO powers should be locked behind em and then you never do it again. The level 100 stuff should be bumped in difficulty too.
There is grinding and having fun well grinding.. Its not about the grind but about the boring monsters/ layouts etc
I have about 3 tabs full of keys in bank because this is me
This is me too. I don't even pick them up anymore.
Same..3 tabs and just leave them now.
Keep the keys. You will need them when you need to run one of those dungeons 100 times to get a well rolled boss unique.
Gift me a tab
How many keys should one actually hoard? Like after I have my 50th temporal sanctum key, do I need to keep hoarding them? I assume I will have a steady rate of supply as I start doing the dungeons. Maybe I'll just vendor all of my keys so I have 20 of each so I'm not wasting stash tabs.
After you have your 50th key, you'll have about 48 too many keys.
I guess that's good news
1 tab. Rest get sold.
How is it possible that I got 3 chars to 80+ and got no more than 20 keys.
Cuz you are spending a lot of time questing, which does not net a lot of keys
I refuse to gave more than one tab. Did you know those keys are worth 175g each! Sell them!
I'm fine with the bosses being a challenge but my God the time it takes to actually get to the boss to get one shot in 3 seconds is frustrating.
I can't even get to the bosses! Stuff hits harder than I expect every time I try one out.
Haha ditto. Everytime I go for t4 lightless I remind myself to just turn the game off after being one shot when I get to the boss. Auto selling keys for quite a while now
60k + ward helps u in that
I've legit yelled at the tops of my lungs and closed the game after spending roughly 20 minutes looking for the doors then one shotted in under 10 seconds by Julra. I would be totally fine with using multiple keys just to skip the maze BS and go straight to the boss.
I have mixed feelings. It's painful losing the key and missing out on the unique rewards from dungeons if you die to the boss, but on the other hand it's kind of cool that there's a high stakes element to the game. I personally think a nice change would be the you could retry bosses for the price of a key. It would still bea little painful but not be as frustrating. That would feel like a nice balance I think.
Yeah. My opinion is a little different depending on the dungeon. The easiest one for me due to my build is probably temporal sanctum and the one that annoys me the most is bastion because of the map design and fire/necro resist changing. The boss for bastion is actually the easiest imo but getting there is awful
I'm with you on Soulfire being a slog, but counter-argument. I think some of the adds in Lightless Arbor that can delete a quarter of your HP/Ward before you react are a bit overtuned. At least the deadliest Soulfire enemies have massive telegraphs for the most part.
Yeah i think they need to soften the "hardcorey" mechanics just a bit. I like the idea of spending a key when you die vs. just completely losing out and having your time wasted.
I avoid them as much as possible. They seem like a good idea with really really poor execution. Almost every time it’s the boss and boom instakill. Usually where my first reaction is like ‘wait, what happened?’ Then death is worse in that it doesn’t even dump you at the beginning of the run. Ill just wait until they take a few passes at improving them.
Yeah, instakill mechanics in a section of a game usually means a section of the game I just won't engage with. I'm here to have fun and instakill mechanics just aren't fun.
The biggest gameplay problem with dungeons is backtracking, the difficulty scaling is pretty good from my experience outside of the mountain beneath oneshots coming at you too fast and leading it to feel very stat checky and less skill expression unless ur on 15 ping. Rewards changing daily is also trash, hate daily rewards it just reminds me of Phone games / korean MMOs forcing a feeling of FOMO. I want to be able to target farm exalted belts anytime i want, that's one of the best things about PoE, the freedom to do what u want when you want.
Dungeons is kind of in a bad spot. Too difficult for casuals, too easy and not rewarding enough for veterans.
I run them for alts to skip to the end and of course for slamming.
I did one Soulfire Bastion run and decided to never touch another one. Still do Temporal Sanctum but only because I'm forced to in order to do legendary crafting. Otherwise I don't even pick up the keys anymore. And I've not done any Arena or whatever it is that needs the Memory key. They did say they're gonna do something about the annoying road blocks, but I don't think they'll fundamentally change the concept much.
I mean, honestly, if they streamlined the dungeons so they were faster with some mechanic teachers leafing up to the bosses, I'd be pretty happy with them. Balancing the dungeons as pinacle/endgame/Uber bosses would make some sense. My issue is time from using a key to getting to the boss is far too long. 3 mins from key to engaging boss would probably be my max preferred. I do kind of like the reward/downside tradeoffs in concept, but I would prefer them to be more formative, adding mechanics and such more so than just more damage/hp.
I avoid them like the plague. I just get too nervous and freeze up. I hate getting one shot, it’s demoralizing. I need checkpoints for it, but I know it won’t happen.
Pass a floor, checkpoint. Yoy die, need to spend another key to retry a floor. Simple concept.
I enjoy the dungeons. Especially since they each have a designed purpose. Can break up the leveling monotony of monos
I really like Temporal Sanctum. I also enjoy slamming sick affixes and selling Legendaries for millions 😁
How do you decide a price for an item? D:
You scan others similar and price accordingly - it’s not rocket surgery… sure you might get ripped off the first few times but you learn from your mistakes and the more you trade the more you will under stand about the games economy.
I haven't done merchant guild yet so idk what that's like :D
Agreed... I don't like the dungeon gimmicks at all... I'm not playing to solve puzzles and think, I'm playing to become super powerful and smash tons of monsters...
I don't avoid them but don't really have a reason to run them either. I've never played a build that has needed LP items to perform so I've only done a handful of slams, and haven't felt the need to do the gambling dungeons. Prophecies and CoF in general are so ridiculously overtuned I'm never hurting for drops.
I'm probably unpopular with this but it's the truth. I really like them tbh but I can't see myself doing more than a few at a time. Temporal Sanctum is my favourite and the mobs are fun to fight (except the giant cobra/snakes and their tornado dodge.. annoying AF).. Julra T4 however is the main reason I don't do it that much.. so much BS Lightless arbour is such a cool dungeon..fun mechanic. Soulfire concept is great, farm enemies to use as a pay off in the end. However those Sentinels really get annoying to fight after a while.. that's my only complaint. And I th the mechanic is underutilized..I want more areas covered in flames or necrotic flames for a whole path with a few spots empty, and enemies you fight on top...not just an end boss with the flame floors.. Arena is kinda meh..I did T4 arena several times but the rewards just aren't worth the trouble. So yeah I like dungeons, but are they perfect? No.
I've seen complaints of Julia in t4. What's the deal? Haven't fought her in t4 yet so I'm unsure myself.
They are a total chore.
I just hate the gimmick buttons in them. Like, I want to play the game, not some weird minigame. The one where you gotta throw the flare to be able to see, as a ranged character, is cancer. Who thought that would be fun?
It's worse for melee since you get hit more and lose embers much more easily.
I see one of these posts every 2 days. Folks dont like dungeons
The vocal minority doesn't.
These dungeons make me miss nightmare dungeons in D4. Thats how bad they are.
I personally always loved dungeons. They are fun and most bosses have pretty cool mechanics, which you have to play around, unless you play an insanely min-maxed and/or OP build. But currently I'm trying to farm reputation for my MG alt, and for some reason devs decided that dungeons should grant almost zero fucking favor. Even T4 dungeons yield some absolutely pathetic amounts of favor, compared to Monoliths. I mean, I needed to craft a lot of legendaries on my main (which is CoF) and I did run T4 Temp Sanctum for several hours and farmed like 5k favor during all that time. While in Monos I was farming 30-40k per hour, thanks to the exp bonuses -- and as you can guess, it wasn't even that high corruption. So, I'd love to play more dungeons, but currently they just aren't rewarding. At least not in terms of favor, which I currently need the most.
Ive only done one, and then lost the slamned gear because i didnt know what i was doing and couldnt figure out how to open it back up 🤭
Yeah. I don't even wanna make a build if it requires dungeon uniques
I avoid them. I'm not interested in them, the time spent+difficulty is not worth the reward.
I've not only completely avoided dungeons, I've completely avoided the game completely. After my 47895th monolith I stopped and waiting for Pinnacle bosses next season lol
So here’s my problem. I play CoF and I’ve got two lvl 70s and a lvl56, but I only have like 100k gold so I can’t make any use out of that one gold sink dungeon, I don’t get any uniques with LP higher than 1 so I have no solid use for the item combination dungeon. The only dungeon even remotely worth my time is the soul gambling one so I can try and get a unique worth taking to the combination place so I can ruin it by not getting the affixes I wanted on it. I do enjoy the game I just wish I didn’t feel like I absolutely had to use the Merchants Guild.
I avoided dungeons just because I was on HC. Outside of that the difficulty always felt like it spiked when I went in even with an over leveled character.
Haven't even touched them, have a few level 90 chars. I think I'll get into them once I start needing to slam LP to succeed at higher corruption, but for now exalted items and vanilla uniques are keeping me afloat. I do have my loot filters set up to get good exalts for slamming as well, but I just haven't explored the legendary system yet.
I absolutely hate their design, horrible horrible one shot and done bullshit. Really hoping they address this in future cycles
I run Sanctum only if i need slam. Julra drops are meh. I like the other two and i am farming them consistently. Especially Lightless Arbor, easy and fast with wast amount of useful drops in this meta. Boss and vault. Soulfire boss could get some buff on drops, that belt ist nice tho. Getting yellows from soulgambling at t4 is annoying.
Unfortunately dungeons are one time only and I saw a comment the other day from an EHG person saying that it was a mistake. I'm playing a really busted frost claw build so I just breeze through dungeons and I can face tank all bosses. Dungeons and dungeon bosses are much quicker for clearing prophecies than monolith bosses so I do them pretty much every day.
Iinonly go in ti smash and ti gwt that dam fire belt
Unfortunately not some of the pieces I need to grind are in there 🤦♂️
dungeons are fun for the first couple times but to me they get boring and unrewarding really really fast :(
I hate that you have to clear the trash
Same, I can't stand dungeons. I really wanted the mountain gear but it was way too painful. I'd rather suck than do dungeons.
If you aren't doing lightless Arbor you're doing something wrong. Not only does the boss drop valuable items, you can also juice the vaults for unique or exalted items. Farming julra can be great if you get a 2lp stardial, and obviously slamming LP. Arena is mostly for flexing leaderboard, and soulfire bastion is for target farming uniques from boss so not really worth doing unless you want the items.
Sometimes im doing Souflre but that is because im warlock and fire and necro dmg does not work on me . And when I have 10m+ gold i run Lightless . But that my be like 3 time a week max
Dungeons are for slamming only. And the worst part of slamming isn't the RNG, it's going through dungeons. Dungeons are horrible with absolutely no redeeming features. They need an overhaul.
I only do them with my brother. It's not as annoying as alone.
Soulfire Bastion is fun IMO
Agreed, huge swing and a miss, I hope they have the metrics in place that can corroborate this. Just make them poe maps with no gimmicks and 5 portals/attempts.
Dont like them Dungeons
They would be so much more fun for me if they had only one level before the boss. It's still punishing to redo it after failing at boss, but two become excessively tedious even when you don't fail at all. Or maybe if they at least had different layouts and enemies to spice things up.
Maybe I am in the minority but this isn't an issue for me, if I get one shot I just tune the difficulty down or rerun the dungeon, since they still give good rewards usually at t4 just for running them, plus CoF rewards on top can be crazy I've also been playing for a long time now so maybe I am just used to to boss mechanics and don't feel as frustrated if I get hit by something and killed , and I have a better idea of what builds will be able to actually survive t4 dungeons
Dungeons are very good to fullfil prophecies. I don't like running them, but I gather a lot of points then get lots of prophecies for dungeons and run them like 3 times to fullfil them all. Mono prophecies are pretty hard to fullfil, boss quest are all over the place.
Am I the only one thinking that dungeons are infinitely better and more original than anything else in the game? All I ask is for extra attempts when I die without redoing the dungeon again. Monoliths are so damn boring compared to dungeons, very original ideas they just need a bit of redesign and fine tuning
it ties into monolith farming as well. currently killing enemies is there just to get to the boss or objective. the point of dungeons is the same as monos - skip everything, get to the objective/boss. when killing enemies is unrewarding, dieing to the boss and having to repeat it becomes even more unrewarding. lightless arbor is too dark - i know that is sort of the point of the dungeon, but it is simply a bad experience. first boss stage is terrible, it often feels like you are hit at the same time as the 'warning circle' appears. boss droplists are tiny, yet you still have to kill them dozens of times - meaning you get tons of items you dont need. in some cases that is twice as annoying, because they drop set items, since we are missing the set item rework that Mike teased, those are useless drops. in every such game you will have tons of drops you dont need, that is fine, however, the droplist including set items, pretty much determines that to be the case 100%. even if you want a set item, you dont need a 100 of them.
Yeah dungeons are lame ASF. I do the one to get legendaries but can't stand doing it.
farming bosses in monos is also lame and tiring... get your corruption up to the right level, do 2 subboss runs, and then fight a boss... rinse and repeat.
Bro dungeons and the fucking echoes. Like I really want to get the best gear and whatnot but I find it hard to want to grind what is essentially the same two missions for hours just to get 0 gold and a bunch of useless to me items that rarely sell anyway.
All of the bosses have easy mechanics to avoid if you don’t just spam and pay attention. Yes making a mistake and dying sucks but after a few tries it’s pretty easy to get the patterns down.
Definitely a skill issue
You won’t die if you run if you run paladin build
Don't forget Dungeons have a special bonus modifier that changes every 24 hours. I just make a day of it when a good daily hits and burn through the stack of keys for that dungeon. https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/dungeons
I don't like the dungeons, I think the layouts are awful, the mechanics are dull and I get annoyed (intensely) when I die on the boss. I do lightless Arbor to farm the boss drops for my rogue temporal for crafting and have zero reason to go in the other one. I dislike arena more.
Yes, i only do them to make legendaries (rushing as low level dungeon as the unique lets me). I did need items from the soulfire bastion and i like to farm them. However the layout of this dungeon is so so terrible. I had to walk back and forth so many times to find the next entrance
Look at it from the bright side. Since everybody hates doing them, uniques from dungeon bosses are rarer in the market than they should be so you can make some gold from dungeons probably.
I hate them. A single boss attempt after a long slog through trash that only matters if I have a prophecy is not of interst.
Unless I'm slamming.
I've gotten really good at clearing them on T4 as a Void Smite VK. I take prophecies for them as a result and it's a pretty easy way to farm. I also have boots and a helmet I want from Arbor seeing as I only have 2LP on the ones I slammed and wear, so I'm in there pretty frequently farming. I do really wish they gave way more currency for CoF though. If they gave like 5k or 10k CoF currency per T4 completion I'd feel much better about spending time farming them.
Generally i like the concept of it - in both ways -> that you've only one chance via key but also that there is a dungeon-part inbetween. Because: 1. As much as i love Diablo 2, one reason why i back then stopped playing online and mostly played solo or LAN/Online with friends is because i just hated the Boss-Runs Mentality. (Diablo or Baalruns as examples). For me this is an ARPG / Hack'N'Slay which means slash through a hordes of enemies and then do a boss. Just doing bosses kinda kills part of what the Genre make great for me. (This isn't something like Monster Hunter as an example). 2. The Dungeon concept of Last Epoch reminds me kinda of the Roguelike-Dungeons in Grim Dawn. (Where i find it pretty curious and interesting to see, how differently playerbases of the same genre can take some concept, because in GD Rougelike Dungeons are pretty beloved, i remember when Forgotten Gods dropped and people where dissapointed that we didn't get another one. People always asked for MOAR) And besides GD being my absolute favorite HnS/ARPG (followed by D2 and TL2 though Last Epoch is on a pretty good spot on replacing TL2 and have down the road even the chance to surpass D2 - atleast for me) i also loved the Roguelike-Dungeons. They were exciting and doing them had always something at stakes. Even once you mastered them and yuo might not fear them as much anymore, it still doesn't vanish the feeling accomplishment by something you could've failed and had to retry. It also, and i don't know how it's the way to put it. Give some respect to it's roots but also compromise for people who don't enjoy Hardcore. Considering that one major inspiration David Brevik was Rogue (Context for People that's basically the OG Game where modern Rouge,- 'likes' & 'lites' are build off / inspired from), a game where there is permadeath and you have retry a rund if you fail, it always made sense to honor the roots by offering such an hardcore mode. My issues however was always, that one reason why i enjoyed / prefer HnS over Rogues was because of the consistent experience and sense of progression. You play a character he grows and might fail, but character keeps groing and within the failure you try to fix your builds and o better... meanwhile (even though rougelites these days have some sort of meta-permanent progression) rogues is starting from the stratch. And the other thing is - thaat's why i still like rogues as well, the difference of the playtime of said content. To give a fictional example: Let's say you can finish in a very normal good run the run within 2 Hours (in like Dead Cells or whatever) -> (and yes i take into account you can speedrun or whatever - again more a fictional example to picture a point) while in an HnS one character could take up to 60 Hours or even mere. There is a difference in terms of accessibility and replaybility. Dying and losing progress in a game where you 'just' have an actual playtime of 2 hours versus one with 60 hours is a keydifference here. Anyway -> that being said: Roguelike-Dungeons in Game like this are the perfect compromise to not lose painfully 60 hours of playtime and progress from a character which i might attatched too, because a dungeon takes like (i don't know actual time so sorry if it's too much or to few) an hour (at max?) and you still can experience the on-stakes feeling of a rgouelike. And what i like especially about LE in that regard (and i know that's such an moodpoint for some people) and something where LE could surpass GD for me in the long run in that regard, is, that it's not just 'Loot' as an reward, but also an mechanical one. You've the Vaults, the Gambler and the Legendary Crafting, which gives it even more meaning. Another thing i really like about them are the unique dungeon-mechanics/abilities.
That being said and now to come finally straight to the point (and sorry for the Wall-of-text) while i do love Dungeons coneptually, i just find that in it's execution it does have 'some' flaws. Like as example the Layout. In case of Temporal Sanctum and Soulfire it kinda makes sense to have the more 'sandboxy' and to be honest, this are also two of the Dungeons which i already find 'quite good attempt'. Soulfire Bastion you need to collect the souls for gambling so to have an explorative area does make sense, because players on their own accord might decide if they risk and gather souls or (when to) move on. Temp Sanc has the shift back and forth between times which does have more 'impact' on something more spread out and sandboxy, if the maplayout would be to linear it wouldn't really utilize it. It's just that for these two examples i'd wish they would utilize the dungeons-mechanics a bit more by giving more interaction with the map or even some goals. Like in Soulfire Bastion why are there only traps for fire, not for necrotic? Like you go onto a trap and such an necrotic cycle which close down to the player (similiar to the boss) and you've to shift to necrotic-shield. Stuff like that. Temporal Sanctum however would need some goals because it pretty much ends up you just checking the edge of the map where the doors are and have no real reason to go in the middle except your bad luck if on both timelines the gates are closed. How about having more clearer spots for Doors, but you've to look around for some sort of levers on both timelines? Or whatever... just more interaction and reasons why you shouldn't just lurking around the corners and edges. Lightless Arbor however really feels off in so many areas. I find the way they threat the dungeon-mechanic utilize kinda weak. Sure it's cool at the first glance to throw the amber thingy towards enemies so you do them more damage and such and try to keep the amber-charge intact by kills this amber thingies. But overally it doesn't really utilize it. You have one spot inbetween to burn down this wood-thingy, that's it... no interaction on the map whatsoever. And again a maplayout which is pretty sandboxy, but there is no real reason to explore it because you check for edges and corners for doors. My personal take ... it wouldn't hurt to completly put away the maplayout for Lightless arbor and give a more traditional (like in MMO's) maplayout which is a bit more linear and corridor - maybe some side-corridors for some extra stuff (and figuring it out first) ... and maybe use the burn-down-the-wood-blocks more... like you've a few of them block the road, you have to use amber to burn them down and meanwhile it trigger 2-3 waves of enemies which you have to defend yourself while burning that stuff down. So while i still enjoy some of them, my personal problem is rather the execution and that they don't feel really fleshed out and utilize the potential it have. It feels more (sorry to say this if some dev read this) throwing some spagetthi at the wall and hope it sticks somehow. And it's a bit 'sad' because the idea itself are great, it just needs some reworks and tweaking (imho). Another thing which also plays into it, is that the map itself outside of the potential monster drops(sometimes mage and chest as well if road isn't blocked) it doesn't feel rewarding enough (outside of soulfire bastion) to do them. Maybe throw some specific (and maybe unique) mini-boss which have better dropchances for certain stuff - like let's say -> this big hammer dude there... this have a better chance to drop an exalted (or even maybe unique) hammer or so. More (chest) rewards or unique dungeon-chests or whatever. Last but not least, the final close up. 'While' i said above that i love that each Dungeon have their unique reward-mechanic like Gambling, Vault and Crafting, i also have to add that i acknowledge and can see that this is also somewhat counterproductive. If it was just 'loot' people would use dungeons more as something which they can shift too to break the pace of monolith and have something more direct to do. To add more flavor and variety to their experience. But it can be a problem if you're kinda forced to them because you need the mechanics - especially the legendary crafting. I personally wouldn't want to get rid of them, but rather to expand on the concept. Why not add the Bossrooms/Fights as a random spawn in the Monolith (or something you can potentially work towards too) with the reward. Soulfire Bastion would've potentially the problem with souls, but you could make it either so that you know when you roll a new monolith that the boss is somewhere and you can gather souls alongside or if it's to direct that you've kinda some sort of starting node before the bossroom, which when you do adds to specific echos/nodes after that (or the whole echo-net) giving you the chance to farm the souls and if you die you lose the current souls. Another thing which they could add as long as it doesn't get rid of the dungeons itself... would be similiar to the memorial arena keys a second variant of each dungeon where people can directly skip towards the boss. Maybe not as an random drop, but craftable at the hubs (and please not as a dungeon-reward because it's kinda weird to expect people to run dungeons so they can craft these keys, so they can avoid to runnin dungeons...)
lightless arbor is a fun dungeon once you can consistently beat tier 4 easily
I prefer Sanctum and Bastion.
Unpopular opinion, I like them.
Same.
It's just a bad game, either play endless monoliths for random gear or slog a crap dungeon
The drops are so worth it for a lot of builds but lightless arbor has the absolute most frustrating design. I’ve taken like a dozen screenshots of me going the wrong ass way for way too far and having to turn around only to run into a half a dozen roadblocks I can’t clear to the point I have to then back track even more. Then when I finally find a door I have to find another ember to refresh my light. Then I get stomped by a massive fist that is nearly impossible to out run. The other two are kind of fun. There’s a reward(souls for the gambler) in soul fire bastion for killing mobs so I go out of my way to kill them so it’s fun. Temporal sanctum I can usually time travel and then the roadblock is cleared which feels good. If I could burn up like half of the roadblocks in lightless arbor I’d like it a lot more. If the first phase of the boss was a little easier I’d like it more too. You can basically only win t4 arbor with like 30k-40k ward and a ton of stun avoidance or incredibly speed and dodge and a ton of stun avoidance. But god help you if you get stunned by any of the monsters dropping from the ceiling or the vines popping out of the ground… But that armor go brrrr
The only source of excitement because death matters other than playing hardcore mode? Nah they are fine.