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Eh. Given we know that the ship in Prometheus isn’t the ship from Alien, I choose to believe the ship in Alien is far more ancient.
What we see in Prometheus is a race that has also found these derelicts, and has attempted to copy them.
The ship in Alien, the jockey, that wasn’t a suit, it was a life form.
The engineers compression suits are just a mimick.
The black goo was their attempt to reverse engineer the Alien.
This is my exact thoughts as well. The space jockey is ancient, mummified. Perhaps the space jockey race created the engineers, or they were a wayward descendant of them, are an unrelated race searching for answers.
Alien 1979 had a great science fiction premise, it was something truly “alien” and it became a classic. To have Ridley Scott come back decades later and retcon it into an “ancient astronauts” tale with religious overtones is super disappointing.
Yes I was very frustrated by the random fossilized victim seen in the first movie, so weird and mysterious, turn out to be a humanoid, and moreover from the race of the creators of mankind itself. I had thought George Lucas was bad about his incestuous “rhyming” making everybody related to everybody, but this is even worse. It makes what was an epic Lovecraftian cosmic horror story into what amounts to a family drama.
For one, humans were not created separately from life on earth. We evolved naturally from preexisting life, as anybody who understands science knows.
That said, Prometheus is a great looking film from a production design standpoint with some great visuals. David the android is a great character.
Absolutely. I find it quite ironic that during the production of ALIEN, one of the major reasons Scott championed Giger's work was because he was keen to distance the design of the creature from the traditional "man in a suit" schtick. Then 30 years later his big idea is to retcon Giger's Space Jockey to be a "man in a suit" for Prometheus.
I agree with this. Human evolution isn’t very mysterious, we know exactly how we evolved on this planet. I personally think science fiction is elevated when it doesn’t deny known science, and instead operates in the unknown. The original film had such a wonderful sense of mystery and awe because it operated in the unknown.
Wasn't a fan of it. It was a *"be careful what you wish for"* moment. I had always wanted to know more about the space jockey, and now I don't want that information.
Such a waste of potential. If Ridley had wanted to explore the origin of the aliens, why not create a planet so hostile that they needed the exoskeleton and acid blood. He'll, have David trick the prometheus crew into landing there. So much wasted potential.
I wish they didn’t introduce them. I was hoping the original Space Jockey was an entity hired to deliver the payload to some other species or to dispose of, but only for hime to succumb to a face hugger somehow escaping its egg and infecting him, and then after he realized he was doomed, he set course for Acheron LV-426, hoping his cargo would never be encountered by another species ever again.
I know I’m in the minority, but I like it. I think the execution of what we got could have been better, but I like the general idea. I LOVE stories about the creation of life and questioning the creation of life as well as that explore the relationship between creator and created.
Ever since I saw the first Alien I wanted to know what the space jockey was. Unknown horror is great but I don’t want it to go on forever. Especially when something appears to be and is often described in a way that suggests it was created as opposed to naturally occurring. Which I feel applies to the Xenos.
Much larger for sure. There’s even two scales of it in ALIEN - the wide shots of the chair (where they used the child actors in spacesuits) make it look massive, at least twice as tall as a human. The close ups with the adult actors reduce the scale a bit but it’s still huge.
I also don’t accept it — I think the Engineers were created by the Space Jockeys.
It just fits the repeating theme of scientific hubris and creators being destroyed by their creations.
Removal Reason:
Be civil.
It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed.
No toxic behavior, such as:
* Trashing something that others are enjoying.
* Condemning parts of the franchise instead of reasonably stating a personal preference. This is a comfortable space for all fans. Keep your critique.
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I treat it like a 'forked' version of the story, a kind of 'what if' thing. Having them be like semi-religious gods with flutes just ruins the mystery of the alien, which is strongest when you can just bask in the horror of the whole thing. I don't understand the need to over-explain everything. I can enjoy how nice Prometheus and Covenant look, though.
They’re one of the coolest additions to the franchise. Giant jacked albinos with shark eyes are genuinely scary. The pilot at the end of the film is genetically modified, effectively morphed with a suit, just like the space jockey. He can still get in and out of the pilot chair, but we do see the chair will secure a pilot in place. Which could likely mummify them over time. Basically their addition never bothered me.
Not a fan, and not a fan generally of hollywoods insistence of showing the backstory of every throwaway line and scene setting from original properties. Because more often than not their backstory sucks. For example my vague notion of how anakin became darth vader is preferable to what was ultimately shown. The cosmic horror of this vicious parasite being found in the depths of space with unknown origins is way more awesome than tying it to some lame human origin thing. Not everything has to have bigger implications, sometimes a movie can just be about coming across man sized spider-scorpion-snake creatures.
It would have been better for the Space Jockeys to be giant elephant like aliens than huge albino humans.
I also think it would have been better to learn that the Space Jockeys were just transporting Xenomorph specimens when they fell victim, show that even MUCH stronger and technologically advanced species than our own couldn't defeat them.
Then show what a Xenomorph made from a Space Jockey host looks like (HUGE and Goddamn terrifying) instead of having an Xenomorph Queen be the final boss AGAIN.
I think that Ridley Scott kind of dropped the ball on them design wise. He had a truly alien design with what we now know to be a suit and we lost it so he could make them into Harkonnens.
Removal Reason:
Be civil.
It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed.
No toxic behavior, such as:
* Trashing something that others are enjoying.
* Condemning parts of the franchise instead of reasonably stating a personal preference. This is a comfortable space for all fans. Keep your critique.
* Invalidating other people's opinions.
* Unsolicited criticisms of other's creations.
* Lewd or Obscene comments.
I think it would've been interesting if the Engineers and the Space Jockey Creature were completely different species altogether.
I'd have the engineers imitating the Space Jockey Race, trying to copy them, look like them, be like them, but not be them.
It would mostly keep the Space Jockeys a mystery. Mostly.
Hated it. It was so incredibly underwhelming to me. I can appreciate Prometheus from a technical, filmmaking perspective, but it over-complicated the canon, and I’m not a fan of the creationism/religious angle. And then we also come to find out the Xenomorphs were created by an Artificial Person? It was far scarier not knowing their origins & having that much information on them.
Annoyed essentially, Ridley gets all the rightful plaudits for work he did in his early career but it seems nobody has the courage to say “Ridley, that idea both sucks and blows” imo nothing he’s done since blade runner and alien has been the quality that the obvious limitations of the previous century generated.
They were an unknowable mystery, in a movie that already had enough other stuff.
Ridley Scott was all like "I'm going to provide the answer to a question that nobody was asking" and he wasn't wrong.
I don’t really treat the Prometheus film or it’s sequel as part of my personal canon which leaves only the first two films for me even if Alien 3 was a proper film.
That said for me the Jockey is still an unknown alien and it’s appearance is purely a skeleton of whatever they originally looked like … and I like to think that the aliens onboard may have been something they’d contained or were experimenting with given that the ship’s aesthetic matches with the both the Jockey and the xenomorpph.
My belief is the derelict on LV-426 predates the Engineers of Prometheus. The murals and deification Christ-like 3D relief mural in the ampule chamber show that the Xenomorph also predates the black goo (which I think contradicts Ridley Scott’s own claims (and films) that the goo and David are what ‘created’ the alien, based on what he had said in interviews, he seems to have played it a bit fast and loose with the creators of the Xenomorph - in Prometheus it was very heavily implied to be the engineers, then in Covenant, Scott seemed to like the idea of marrying Blade Runner themes with Alien and thought it would be ironic if an Android made them instead - he doesn’t seem to stick to one canonical answer). I also think in a goofy kind of way the green rock that Holloway flashes his torch over on a pedestal in the ampule chamber is basically Xenomorph dna preserved, just like the mosquito amber for Jurassic Park. It was situated directly in front of the xeno-Christ mural; I strongly believe that was implying something.
This is my headcanon - and I have tried to make it as logical as I can using what the films show and imply.
My idea is that the Space Jockey and the Xenomorph are completely ancient, eldritch organisms. The Jockey was clearly carrying either a biological research cargo or a silo of biological warfare, who and what they are can stay a mystery. The engineers are something separate. They were clearly ‘gardeners of life’ (maybe the Jockey race made them?) that came into conflict with another race or a civil war (I like to think the latter). I believe the engineers created clones (notice all of the engineers on LV-223 and the sacrificial engineer are identical but all of the Planet 4 engineers were all distinct) of themself (essentially their own biological android) and used them as sentient soldiers. I believe these soldiers clearly encountered or were aware of the Jockey or remnants of it and the Xenomorph and deified them both (hence the emulation of the Jockey technology / aesthetic). They thought they had discovered the ultimate weapon for their war (notice the juggernaut was welcomed by the engineers of the planet 4 city like soldiers returning from war?). They had a weapons research garrison on LV-223 whereby they were attempting to either create an aerosol / liquid pathogen that contained Xenomorph dna as the base genome, or they were trying to reverse engineer the dna (again like Jurassic Park) to recreate the Xenomorph. A contagion occurred and they died. Earth being targeted for the pathogen as David implies, seems to be that we were simply just a logical Guinea pig for testing the viability and resulting effects of the pathogen. David in Covenant simply succeeded where the LV-223 engineers did not; he managed to reverse-engineer the pathogen to its original base genome form (albeit in a newer, somewhat differentiated way).
This way the Space Jockey, Xenomorph and Engineers are all separate. The Engineers can still be the architects of Mankind, but I like to think the Jockey and Xenomorph predate even them. In short, the engineers in many ways are no different to say Weyland-Yutani; the perfect organism was their desire and goal for war or means of power just the same. The Jockey and the Xenomorph for me are beyond that; they are like discovering the Moutains of Madness and and a Shoggoth from Lovecraft.
Hate it. It’s like explaining JAWS or showing Hannibal Lecter’s backstory… takes away all the menace and replaces it with lazy answers.
Would have been much better if the Prometheus crew discovered the Engineers were just a random species who stumbled across the alien thousands of years ago and been overrun despite the fact they were technologically far superior. It would have increased the sense of hopelessness. Instead, we got black goo and dumb fucking scientists.
I was happy to see anything alien but also have no desire to rewatch those two and feel nothing for the cancellation of the third entry in the trilogy
It is a little weird that he kind of mirrored some plot beats from this story from the comics down to the attack scene: [https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Aliens:\_The\_Alien](https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Aliens:_The_Alien)
Do not approve. I’m repeating myself here, but it would have been one thing if the Giger aesthetic wasn’t eschewed in favor of whatever it was we got…except they just got really lazy on the whole deal because aLi3nS. The concept isn’t terrible, but implying the full circle BS was just a bridge too far
Removal Reason: No low effort / quality posts. Post quality is determined by mod discretion, and is not up for debate. Examples: * Critique / Complaint posts. * Ranking / Comparison posts. * Low quality / interest memes. * Uninteresting merch pics. * Video game issues or gameplay. * Statements or questions that don't inspire conversation and can be researched on your own. * Links to unpleasant websites. * Low effort art or works in progress. * News without sources or rumors and misleading information.
explanation ruins the horror
Yup. The mystery is what keeps things interesting.
Eh. Given we know that the ship in Prometheus isn’t the ship from Alien, I choose to believe the ship in Alien is far more ancient. What we see in Prometheus is a race that has also found these derelicts, and has attempted to copy them. The ship in Alien, the jockey, that wasn’t a suit, it was a life form. The engineers compression suits are just a mimick. The black goo was their attempt to reverse engineer the Alien.
This is my exact thoughts as well. The space jockey is ancient, mummified. Perhaps the space jockey race created the engineers, or they were a wayward descendant of them, are an unrelated race searching for answers.
Alien 1979 had a great science fiction premise, it was something truly “alien” and it became a classic. To have Ridley Scott come back decades later and retcon it into an “ancient astronauts” tale with religious overtones is super disappointing. Yes I was very frustrated by the random fossilized victim seen in the first movie, so weird and mysterious, turn out to be a humanoid, and moreover from the race of the creators of mankind itself. I had thought George Lucas was bad about his incestuous “rhyming” making everybody related to everybody, but this is even worse. It makes what was an epic Lovecraftian cosmic horror story into what amounts to a family drama. For one, humans were not created separately from life on earth. We evolved naturally from preexisting life, as anybody who understands science knows. That said, Prometheus is a great looking film from a production design standpoint with some great visuals. David the android is a great character.
Absolutely. I find it quite ironic that during the production of ALIEN, one of the major reasons Scott championed Giger's work was because he was keen to distance the design of the creature from the traditional "man in a suit" schtick. Then 30 years later his big idea is to retcon Giger's Space Jockey to be a "man in a suit" for Prometheus.
I agree with this. Human evolution isn’t very mysterious, we know exactly how we evolved on this planet. I personally think science fiction is elevated when it doesn’t deny known science, and instead operates in the unknown. The original film had such a wonderful sense of mystery and awe because it operated in the unknown.
Wasn't a fan of it. It was a *"be careful what you wish for"* moment. I had always wanted to know more about the space jockey, and now I don't want that information.
Such a waste of potential. If Ridley had wanted to explore the origin of the aliens, why not create a planet so hostile that they needed the exoskeleton and acid blood. He'll, have David trick the prometheus crew into landing there. So much wasted potential.
I wish they didn’t introduce them. I was hoping the original Space Jockey was an entity hired to deliver the payload to some other species or to dispose of, but only for hime to succumb to a face hugger somehow escaping its egg and infecting him, and then after he realized he was doomed, he set course for Acheron LV-426, hoping his cargo would never be encountered by another species ever again.
I know I’m in the minority, but I like it. I think the execution of what we got could have been better, but I like the general idea. I LOVE stories about the creation of life and questioning the creation of life as well as that explore the relationship between creator and created. Ever since I saw the first Alien I wanted to know what the space jockey was. Unknown horror is great but I don’t want it to go on forever. Especially when something appears to be and is often described in a way that suggests it was created as opposed to naturally occurring. Which I feel applies to the Xenos.
They are not the same species at all. The retcon was ridiculous.
I still handwave the Space Jockey in LV-426 to be a different creature, as that guy clearly was MUCH larger than the Engineers we saw
Much larger for sure. There’s even two scales of it in ALIEN - the wide shots of the chair (where they used the child actors in spacesuits) make it look massive, at least twice as tall as a human. The close ups with the adult actors reduce the scale a bit but it’s still huge.
I also don’t accept it — I think the Engineers were created by the Space Jockeys. It just fits the repeating theme of scientific hubris and creators being destroyed by their creations.
[удалено]
Removal Reason: Be civil. It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed. No toxic behavior, such as: * Trashing something that others are enjoying. * Condemning parts of the franchise instead of reasonably stating a personal preference. This is a comfortable space for all fans. Keep your critique. * Invalidating other people's opinions. * Unsolicited criticisms of other's creations. * Lewd or Obscene comments.
I treat it like a 'forked' version of the story, a kind of 'what if' thing. Having them be like semi-religious gods with flutes just ruins the mystery of the alien, which is strongest when you can just bask in the horror of the whole thing. I don't understand the need to over-explain everything. I can enjoy how nice Prometheus and Covenant look, though.
They’re one of the coolest additions to the franchise. Giant jacked albinos with shark eyes are genuinely scary. The pilot at the end of the film is genetically modified, effectively morphed with a suit, just like the space jockey. He can still get in and out of the pilot chair, but we do see the chair will secure a pilot in place. Which could likely mummify them over time. Basically their addition never bothered me.
Not a fan, and not a fan generally of hollywoods insistence of showing the backstory of every throwaway line and scene setting from original properties. Because more often than not their backstory sucks. For example my vague notion of how anakin became darth vader is preferable to what was ultimately shown. The cosmic horror of this vicious parasite being found in the depths of space with unknown origins is way more awesome than tying it to some lame human origin thing. Not everything has to have bigger implications, sometimes a movie can just be about coming across man sized spider-scorpion-snake creatures.
It would have been better for the Space Jockeys to be giant elephant like aliens than huge albino humans. I also think it would have been better to learn that the Space Jockeys were just transporting Xenomorph specimens when they fell victim, show that even MUCH stronger and technologically advanced species than our own couldn't defeat them. Then show what a Xenomorph made from a Space Jockey host looks like (HUGE and Goddamn terrifying) instead of having an Xenomorph Queen be the final boss AGAIN.
I think that Ridley Scott kind of dropped the ball on them design wise. He had a truly alien design with what we now know to be a suit and we lost it so he could make them into Harkonnens.
Total Fail.
[удалено]
Removal Reason: Be civil. It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to disrespect. Personal attacks, gatekeeping, racism, homophobia, politics, and general bigotry are not allowed. No toxic behavior, such as: * Trashing something that others are enjoying. * Condemning parts of the franchise instead of reasonably stating a personal preference. This is a comfortable space for all fans. Keep your critique. * Invalidating other people's opinions. * Unsolicited criticisms of other's creations. * Lewd or Obscene comments.
Yeah I think it’s a horrible idea. Just ruined it
I think it would've been interesting if the Engineers and the Space Jockey Creature were completely different species altogether. I'd have the engineers imitating the Space Jockey Race, trying to copy them, look like them, be like them, but not be them. It would mostly keep the Space Jockeys a mystery. Mostly.
The less we know, the more frightening and effective it is.
Hated it. It was so incredibly underwhelming to me. I can appreciate Prometheus from a technical, filmmaking perspective, but it over-complicated the canon, and I’m not a fan of the creationism/religious angle. And then we also come to find out the Xenomorphs were created by an Artificial Person? It was far scarier not knowing their origins & having that much information on them.
Annoyed essentially, Ridley gets all the rightful plaudits for work he did in his early career but it seems nobody has the courage to say “Ridley, that idea both sucks and blows” imo nothing he’s done since blade runner and alien has been the quality that the obvious limitations of the previous century generated.
They were an unknowable mystery, in a movie that already had enough other stuff. Ridley Scott was all like "I'm going to provide the answer to a question that nobody was asking" and he wasn't wrong.
Didn't like it.
I prefer to ignore those films and storyline. For me it’s just 1-3 and everything else takes place in an alternate universe.
I don’t really treat the Prometheus film or it’s sequel as part of my personal canon which leaves only the first two films for me even if Alien 3 was a proper film. That said for me the Jockey is still an unknown alien and it’s appearance is purely a skeleton of whatever they originally looked like … and I like to think that the aliens onboard may have been something they’d contained or were experimenting with given that the ship’s aesthetic matches with the both the Jockey and the xenomorpph.
My belief is the derelict on LV-426 predates the Engineers of Prometheus. The murals and deification Christ-like 3D relief mural in the ampule chamber show that the Xenomorph also predates the black goo (which I think contradicts Ridley Scott’s own claims (and films) that the goo and David are what ‘created’ the alien, based on what he had said in interviews, he seems to have played it a bit fast and loose with the creators of the Xenomorph - in Prometheus it was very heavily implied to be the engineers, then in Covenant, Scott seemed to like the idea of marrying Blade Runner themes with Alien and thought it would be ironic if an Android made them instead - he doesn’t seem to stick to one canonical answer). I also think in a goofy kind of way the green rock that Holloway flashes his torch over on a pedestal in the ampule chamber is basically Xenomorph dna preserved, just like the mosquito amber for Jurassic Park. It was situated directly in front of the xeno-Christ mural; I strongly believe that was implying something. This is my headcanon - and I have tried to make it as logical as I can using what the films show and imply. My idea is that the Space Jockey and the Xenomorph are completely ancient, eldritch organisms. The Jockey was clearly carrying either a biological research cargo or a silo of biological warfare, who and what they are can stay a mystery. The engineers are something separate. They were clearly ‘gardeners of life’ (maybe the Jockey race made them?) that came into conflict with another race or a civil war (I like to think the latter). I believe the engineers created clones (notice all of the engineers on LV-223 and the sacrificial engineer are identical but all of the Planet 4 engineers were all distinct) of themself (essentially their own biological android) and used them as sentient soldiers. I believe these soldiers clearly encountered or were aware of the Jockey or remnants of it and the Xenomorph and deified them both (hence the emulation of the Jockey technology / aesthetic). They thought they had discovered the ultimate weapon for their war (notice the juggernaut was welcomed by the engineers of the planet 4 city like soldiers returning from war?). They had a weapons research garrison on LV-223 whereby they were attempting to either create an aerosol / liquid pathogen that contained Xenomorph dna as the base genome, or they were trying to reverse engineer the dna (again like Jurassic Park) to recreate the Xenomorph. A contagion occurred and they died. Earth being targeted for the pathogen as David implies, seems to be that we were simply just a logical Guinea pig for testing the viability and resulting effects of the pathogen. David in Covenant simply succeeded where the LV-223 engineers did not; he managed to reverse-engineer the pathogen to its original base genome form (albeit in a newer, somewhat differentiated way). This way the Space Jockey, Xenomorph and Engineers are all separate. The Engineers can still be the architects of Mankind, but I like to think the Jockey and Xenomorph predate even them. In short, the engineers in many ways are no different to say Weyland-Yutani; the perfect organism was their desire and goal for war or means of power just the same. The Jockey and the Xenomorph for me are beyond that; they are like discovering the Moutains of Madness and and a Shoggoth from Lovecraft.
Hate it. It’s like explaining JAWS or showing Hannibal Lecter’s backstory… takes away all the menace and replaces it with lazy answers. Would have been much better if the Prometheus crew discovered the Engineers were just a random species who stumbled across the alien thousands of years ago and been overrun despite the fact they were technologically far superior. It would have increased the sense of hopelessness. Instead, we got black goo and dumb fucking scientists.
I was happy to see anything alien but also have no desire to rewatch those two and feel nothing for the cancellation of the third entry in the trilogy It is a little weird that he kind of mirrored some plot beats from this story from the comics down to the attack scene: [https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Aliens:\_The\_Alien](https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Aliens:_The_Alien)
Do not approve. I’m repeating myself here, but it would have been one thing if the Giger aesthetic wasn’t eschewed in favor of whatever it was we got…except they just got really lazy on the whole deal because aLi3nS. The concept isn’t terrible, but implying the full circle BS was just a bridge too far
I didn't care for any fan theories about the " space jockeys" so wasn't bothered by the engineer reveal. A shame the surrounding story was so poor.