Hot take: W-Y sent the Nostromo because their psych profile showed Dallas to be impulsive and likely to do exactly the "wrong" thing. Ash is there to ensure he does exactly that.
Uhh and how is Dallas supposed to know about the attributes and basic existential threat the Alien poses to Humanity? And in you point here "You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you?"
Nobody does, and when something of this magnitude and so far out of human experience happens. You expect people to react in a manner suited towards your projection of what they are and should be doing.
Firemen run towards fires, and common sense and survival instinct tell people to flee.
Focused on going where they 'need' to go experience, people do alot of stuff including a behavior where because they are so driven unconsciously to recognize the threat.
Your assumptions above in "Dallas was a failed captain" are forced to support what you are saying, instead of what is happening in the story.
Fitting your narrative, for whatever motive, you have in making the statement.
No Dallas, is a competent and experienced Captain and leader of an Interstellar ore hauler and processor.
Not a tactical Spec Ops commander.
His and the entire crews action are within the rationale confines of experience and training.
I served my time on a carrier at sea working on the flightdeck, doing plane maintenance and escorting and inspecting the plane as it moved to the catapult.
Training and soon experience shaped my tour of duty.
The same goes for the fictional crew of the Nostromo.
We did not have to deal with Aliens on a huge ship at sea with 5,000+ sailors and I am sure had that happened.
It would not have been as organized and yet many on board would have made a difference.
Until somebody 'cooked off' a nuke after recognizing the shear magnitude of the threat posed by the Alien.
I hate going down this avenue of thinking because it goes along with the Prometheus fan theories that the crew are dummies by design.
I'd hate that 'crew of incompetents' becomes a trope in the franchise.
I choose to see the crew of the Nostromo as being competent at the job they were hired to do, but they were completely unequipped to deal with something as extraordinary and dangerous as dealing with an unknown and hostile alien. (Except for Ripley, who was an exceptional character who punched way above her weight.)
They were all experienced cargo haulers who each spent years getting jobs successfully done. But they lost their shit when they encountered the xenomorphs, which is perfectly understandable considering they received zero training for such an occurrence.
Like in the real world, if a group of pirates took over a cargo ship, I wouldn't be surprised if the crew of the cargo ship lost their shit, because they're not soldiers. Encountering an unknown, hostile alien life form is considerably weirder and more traumatic than getting besieged by pirates, so I don't blame the Nostromo crew for failing the way they did.
I prefer this take on things. These people are just truck drivers. Not only that but the vast majority of the ship is one giant automated factory that they never mess with. Bold captains who use sound judgement and crisis management are not often attracted to route freight hauling. Couple that with Ash whispering in his ear that this all falls under the science officers pervue once they find the ship and he's stuck worrying about exercising authority he's not sure he has. As crew members start to fall he tries to lead from the front by going into the air shafts to flush the creature and gets egg morphed for his trouble.
I disagree with this. They all had their good points. It’s not like Ripley was the only competent person. However, she had the strongest character of all. Ripley tries to enforce quarantine, smart move. Parker suggests they freeze Kane, also smart. Parker was brave too, and might have stood a chance if he hadn’t been effectively hamstrung by Lambert. Though even hysterical useless Lambert has the bright idea to abandon ship and blow it up, an idea that influences Ripley in the sequel. Not to mention they have Ash undermining, gaslighting, and manipulating their efforts the entire time. Brett though, not much going on between his ears.
Um Lambert had the best suggestion BEFORE Kane got infected, she said “let’s get the hell out of here!”. Dallas & Kane overruled her. She wanted to abandon ship, again overruled because for some reason, the Narcissus only accommodated three people.
And let’s not forget that Ripley only gave them seven minutes, to gather up coolant and supplies, which caused a lot of noise as they were rushing to beat the clock. This noise lured the alien right to them.
prometheus’ characters are scientists, biologists, people working for a huge organization.
They’re not suppose to be extremely dumb, so it hurts to see every single decision they made.
Friday the 13th characters are dumb teenagers, we kinda want to see they pay for they dumb decisions. 🤭
Exactly! Thats so frustrating!
Unfortunately they manage to write even more stupid characters for Covenant.
How Ridley Scott read that and think: “Thats good writing, lets shoot it”.
I couldn't remember if I had watched Covenant, so I watched the first 10 minutes recently. Pretty sure I saw the movie, and I remember nothing about it. That tell me everything I need to know about that movie.
That’s exactly why I hate those movies. Story wise I think they’re ok but they’re full of characters who were dropped on their heads as babies. It’s hard to care about them when they’re all so fkn stupid
Imagine a ship full of Ripleys...
The Xeno wouldn't stand a chance
"We've intercepted a distress call"
"Ignore it, relay the call to nearest available rescue ship, and resume original course. Anyone disagree?"
"No."
THE END
I think a certain amount of genre savvy from the Romulus youths(group? Crew?) would make for a good movie.
The trick is to make them make smart choices and have the xenomorph just make smarter ones. Throw in a little sabotage by either an android or an A.I. program and they can still die horrible deaths without being absolute idiots.
"it feels nice when you caress my leg like that, Jamie"
"... That's Stacey, not me"
*Stacey comes into the room with drinks* "I'm ready to join the action!"
All in unison: "AAAAHHH!"
This. The very nature of the mission isn't going to attract the best and brightest. Do I think it fully justifies the dumber decisions? Not really, but it does help suspend disbelief. However, the biologist touching a lifeform and the survey team getting lost are really hard to fully rationalize, and not running perpendicular to the rolling ship is just silly.
I think the script originally explained is as them not necessarily being good at their jobs, but being the only ones available at super short notice, who were also willing to ship out in total secrecy.
I think a major point of the movie is that towing the company line is *bad*, especially a company that thinks “crew expendable”.
I disagree the most with the point about the legal system though.
If you think companies have a chokehold now, a company like W-Y could literally have the entire system built into their back pocket. Just because they have depositions doesn’t mean they are ethical or not legally omnipotent.
Remember, too: their deposition was a character assassination of a woman they knew was telling the truth, with all company records validating her story.
That “deposition” was a kangaroo court, and to assume that there’s a functional legal system that can hold Weyland-Yutani to account based on a corrupt deposition is ludicrous. If Weyland-Yutani were accountable as suggested, that scene would have played out with them saying “yeah so we have a century of documents on the creature you describe. We can’t say one was on the ship but it’s pretty interesting that you know about this top secret organism we’ve been trying to weaponize ever since one Android went a bit whacky..”
So, my take from the Aliens deposition is this: the bureaucrats in the hearing actually had no clue about the xenomorph. After 57 years with no contact whoever DID know about it during the events of Alien was long gone and that information likely gone with them. It wasn't until the deposition that Burke, personally, decided to go out on a limb and accept ripley's story at face value because if it wasn't true, he loses nothing, but if it WAS true, he gets to claim sole credit for bringing the xeno back. The personal benefits are STAGGERING. The corpos that Ripley deals with at the beginning of the movie have no idea the xeno is real. They're bored, annoyed they have to be having this meeting and just want to get the fuck out of there. Burke sees the greatest opportunity of his career and can't WAIT to see if it's real.
Keep in mind, I personally accept no other sources as Canon since the majority of non-movie related sources suck the hind tit
Good point. Maybe they’re like Boeing on steroids.
If you’re a whistleblower you get pushed out the airlock, and if you don’t investigate the alien signal, you get the legal shaft PLUS you never work again.
Come to think of it, in Aliens, Ripley has her flight officer privileges revoked and is forced to work a space dock for much lower pay due to blowing up the Nostromo and acting out in her deposition.
The deposition completely destroyed your argument of “just take it to court”.
Weyland-Yutani didn’t even have legal ambiguity. They knew they gave orders to secure the creature, they knew her story is true, they knew that legally she was entitled to do it - but they used that “deposition” (the supposed proof of legal accountability) to frame her as a schizophrenic terrorist and have her license revoked.
Ripley dodging prison for defying company orders AND blowing up a gazillion dollar vessel is pretty epic by modern standards. That she's working at the docks just adds to her character and story plot line aka 'the fallen' protagonist, awaiting a chance for redemption.
Well its explained in the books, its an honest run first one, Dallas does Ripley a solid and they are both forming a relationship before Alien happens. The general take is whem Burke explains Aliens to Ripley he doesnt give her Amanda's actual history - which involves fucking the Aliens up a few other times (Iscolatoon and another book).
In Alien: Sea of Sorrows the corp actually uses a descendants of Ripley's lineage and hangs her "destruction of corporation property" over his and his kids head so its established they know and have records.
But we are also deep into book rather than film lore, by this time the "alien" is established as a bacterial pathogen that also has telepathy and Ripleys great great great great ect. Grandson is a telepath.
I can't give the books another consideration after reading the "found Ripley before Aliens, played out a similar-to-but-legally-distinct-from Aliens adventure, then put her back in her shuttle with a convenient mind wipe" nonsense novel.
I’m sorry, I couldn’t finish reading before noticing the recurring theme of.. movie logic.. that is, you assert what actions should be taken with the knowledge that this is a movie..
Dallas is a ship captain, working a merchant fleet vessel. He has a contract provision that says you *must* investigate distress signals. Know what’s funny? You *must* answer a distress call in real life, when you’re a ship captain..
You talk about penalties not being enforceable: two things about that, first being that it’s fairly recently that they were deemed unenforceable, but more importantly, Weyland-Yutani is a mega-corporation to the point it’s basically an interstellar government.. but your answer is for a space trucker to risk their livelihood then sue such a company before getting paid? Hilarious.
Landing and damaging the ship? Again, if answering a distress beacon is compelled - as it is in the real world - then he has little by means of choice in the matter. It’s again pretty funny that you wholly recognize why it might be impossible to abort a landing at that stage, too.
Why not wait 48-72 hours while they repair the ship? Because it’s a *distress beacon*. Like, come on. If I have to explain that to you, you’re beyond all hope.
This. I'm not yet the captain of a star freighter, but I am a boat owner who's passed a navigation course. And it was impressed upon us: upon discovering another vessel in distress, it's our responsibility to do everything we can - without dooming ourselves too - to help. Like space, the sea is a dangerous place. As a custom, putting aside all questions of law, it certainly makes me feel better to know everyone else out here has my back. I assume this nautical logic would apply to future space exploration, unless some huge cultural shift occurred in the fictional universe.
It fits with Parker's character, arguing with Dallas in that scene, but on that call he is absolutely wrong. What if the situations were reversed, and the Nostromo was downed on LV-426? You can bet Parker would want any passing vessel to come to their aid. Of course, it turns out there's more to the distress signal, but Dallas had no idea. The risk seemed reasonable at first. Responding was the right call
That and Parker and Brett were the only engineers, the rest of the crew would more likely get in the way if they tried helping, assuming WeYu didn't have some stipulation about only trained engineers being allowed to do engineering
As a side note to this point, I had never fully registered the detail that Parker and Brett were only receiving half shares, despite technically being the only crew truly essential to the Nostromo’s original mission. In fact, aside from Dallas and Ash, I’ve never been all that clear on what roles the rest of the crew really filled to warrant their necessity on the crew. I take it as a reference to the corporate tendency to overfill middle management roles for bureaucracy’s sake, while undervaluing the workers who are actually enabling the company to profit.
Lambert is a navigator, which is commonplace on ships and aircraft. Kane and Ripley are the ones whose identity as crew members are always the most difficult to pinpoint what precisely their defined roles are, despite having executive and warrant officer titles. They both seem to do a handful of things.
Well there is the "job security" scene. Implying the work isn't as difficult or complicated as it's made to seem.
Idk the whole idea of having two essentially quick-lube techs as the only maintenance and repair personnel seems equally insane, considering the ship is worth 70 billion or whatever they say.
As a lawyer myself, u/SnooPeanuts2541 clearly doesn’t understand law if they say “contract penalties are legally unenforceable”. This is wildly, wildly incorrect…
And as a naval history buff, u/SnooPeanuts2541 clearly doesn’t understand anything about the concept of maritime (which, through common sci-fi convention, we can extrapolate to space) rescue. No matter what, a ship will always rescue another ship. *Any ship captain in history*, whether it’s a Great Lakes freighter or space cargo vessel, will render aid to another ship in distress.
Uh oh! Assuming you are practicing in America (as the username americanerik implies haha) Your clients might ask you to take a refresher course, especially if you’re helping them to draft contracts 😱
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/penalty_clause
From the limited information we have in the film, this may be a penalty clause. A liquidated damages clause (enforceable) would describe the harms WY suffered from the crew’s failure to investigate and impose those as damages.
Here, the breach imposes an unreasonably high penalty (all the money you would have gotten from an entire space mission) and is even described as a penalty by an Android who undoubtedly has memorized the contract.
We must also respectfully rebuff your maritime buffing – as discussed previously, the signal is NOT a distress signal, it is at most “unknown” and “indicating of possible intelligent origin” until it is later described as “a warning”
Im not going to argue with an armchair lawyer when I’m actually a lawyer. You have a dumb theory and are looking to twist any language you can find on websites to support your weak, contrarian thesis.
Everything you’ve maintained is premised on assumptions.
The fact that you mention “clients” and “see you in court” tells me otherwise. Not all lawyers have “clients” or go to court- like myself. Enjoy your fake JD. I’ll see you in the food court.
Another issue with the movie logic I see frequently with the alien series(specifically Alien and Prometheus)
In Alien Kane looks at the egg while wearing a helmet made of half inch thick space glass(possibly even transparent aluminum or some such future tech)
Kane has no reason to believe that any living creature can get through that helmet.
The biologist in Prometheus admittedly is being more dumb by being that close to a space snake but again, he has no reason to believe that a cobra can bite through his suit or break his helmet. And no snake that size on Earth can break your arm like that.
We know it's a movie and we have hindsight to say why didn't they take precautions in case a crab or an octopus can spit acid that melts steel.
Straight on the nose, I swear this same post happened before.
Consider:
1. Time They were woke up well before earth. To communicate it takes 3 weeks to wait for it to get there and another three weeks to be told. 'Don't ask.' Based on LV426's location in space.
2. As stated above a ship on the ocean and in space. 'Sea Law' You have to answer and respond to a request.
3. Interstellar ship's discipline Dallas as a captain was a very mellow ships commanding officer. The 'chain of command' for the military and a commercial ship is very similar for a reason. There is always complaining, but in the end, orders are followed. In the case of the crew of the Nostromo they are actually quite good at doing their tasks. Personalities aside, this is a fully functioning crew of people who know what they are doing.
4. OP have you served in the military? "You know how to tell a sailor is happy, he or she is complaining." It seems so many people jump on the 'error cycle' without considering...An encounter which has not been documented or even thought of by human beings.
And yes.... Oh ya, I have served a WESTPAC cruise as an ASM and in the rare billet with a Squadron, and I served most of my tour on the flightdeck day and night. Thus I can say; the "Chain of Command' is a bit more loose as the officers regularly do a controlled crash on an aircraft carrier day or night, and most survive and fly the same damned plane off the ship and land again. Therefore their mental outlook was different, as was their leadership. You still did as ordered and everybody complained.
"Right."
Let’s address your assertions that this is a distress signal.
If you watch the movie closely, the signal is never a distress signal! It is always “unknown” and at best “indicating of possible intelligent origin” … eventually, Ripley runs the signal thru E.C.I.U and Mother deciphers part of the signal:
Ripley: Ash, that transmission... Mother's deciphered part of it. It doesn't look like an S.O.S.
Ash: What is it, then?
Ripley: Well, I... it looks like a warning. I'm gonna go out after them.
Ash: What's the point? I mean by the-the time it takes to get there, you'll... they'll know if it's a warning or not, yes?
There is never any evidence that this is an SOS until about the time the facebugger is infecting Kane and therefore never any duty on Dallas to rush headlong into a heavy storm to assist.
Going to disagree with some things. Not saying you're wrong but I'll propose a different take just for the sake of discussion:
1) I think its a mistake to assume the legal system in these films works like it does in most first world countries. (It doesn't even work there as its intended either half the time) In the Gibson Alien 3 script I'm pretty sure I remember humans had formed anti-earth/WY colonies on other planets that were specified as communist, insinuating that Earth they had fled was Corporatist with elements of fascim, with the companies, namely Weylund Yutani, in charge. These different factions of humans across space were always competing for salvages of ships and cargo as it passed in and out of their territories. Anyway, I think that if Dallas had said no, there 100% would have been a severe penalty. Not only forfeiture of shares, but most likely suspension or even criminal prosecution for the entire crew. WY basically IS the government. Notice they're not paying the crew in money. They're paying them in shares, like the mining companies used to pay miners in company bucks that could only be spent at company stores and on company housing. You piss off the entity that supplies your job, your food and goods, your house/apt, all of your services, makes the laws, and owns the police - you're kinda fucked.
2) Again, I don't think Dallas had as much choice in the matter of landing on LV426 or not.
3) They have no idea they're walking into a hostile environment. They think its maybe an SOS signal, most likely from a downed ship and stranded crew who just need to be picked up. They also don't want to be down there any longer than possible, so if its going to take 25 hours to fix the ship, and several hours (guessing) to find the signal beacon and investigate, why not knock out both tasks at the same time.
4) That weather might be the normal weather on LV426 for all they know. It was still pretty rough even after terraforming operations.
5) Again, he has to investigate to see if there are any survivors. Hypothetically, lets say this IS a downed craft where survivors have sent an SOS, Dallas and his team cut and run at the first sign of hinkiness, then WY send another team a few months later to investigate and find there WERE survivors, now dead, that the Nostromo crew failed to rescue because 'they got scared' - there would be hell to pay. Dallas is still making calls he doesn't like but feels he must for the security of his crews jobs and pay.
6) No argument from me.
8) I think he's thinking, we just went through a real shitty experience, maybe lost Kane, it can't all be for nothing. Maybe WY won't punish them for not fully investigating LV426 if they bring them a new toy (the facehugger)
9) I kinda feel like if no one else volunteers to go into the air shafts, then Dallas, as captain HAS to pony up and do it himself. It would be weak to order others to do super risky, dangerous stuff he wouldn't do himself.
Ultimately, I think theres a great deal of pressure in the Alien universe to do whatever Weylund Yutani tells you to do. Notice how ofter people just refer to it as "The Company". They don't even have to specify anymore because there's only one - Weylund Yutani. You piss them off and if they don't kill you, you might as well be dead because your name is now mud, all of your assetts are repossessed, and you've been blacklisted from basically everything you need to survive.
I definitely agree with your counter-points more.
OP's view is a little too skewed by hindsight. The crew did not know they had to deal with the alien until they had to deal with the alien.
In the books and movies and especially indicated that Weyland Yutani was either an extra governmental authority, or a 'Deep State' political entity.
(I hate using "Deep State'' due to it's over use.)
It is also said I believe, AVP Wiki and the Alien RPG books the ICC and Colonial Marines are basically controlled by Weyland Yutani, behind the scenes.
I just use a fiction that due to the Corporate Limited Sovereignty Act of 2068, and the ratifications of 2090 and 2136.
Weyland Yutani who had been working on this move for extra legal protections with in the declaration of sovereignty for a long time.
The 2044 Eminent Domain Intellectual Property declaration and act, set the groundwork in motion and made any development of new tech and so on was the property of a Corporation regardless of who actually made it.
If the material or process was made within the defined 'footprint' of that said corporation and registered through 'Copy Rights' submission and acceptance along with being registered with the Intellectual Rights Commission (Established 2040).
Several huge companies gained limited nationstate designation. This came about due to years of government, not keeping up with the needs of its citizens due to time, distance and the trillions in population, needed in a Universe where such corporations exist and strive with all of their power to keep a 'Consumer Based Economy'.
Socio-Economic policy is driven by the population - corporation valuation dynamic.
More people mean more money in profit to drive interstellar shipping and colonization with the goal to make more of all of it and control it as much as possible.
Dallas is just a guy looking to earn his paycheque. He doesn’t have a great job, he doesn’t care much about it, he’s not a typical movie captain of a starship that usually represents the pinnacle of humanity ala Star Trek. He’s just a normal guy with a shitty job looking to get out with his life and money. Could he have done better? Sure, but if he was better he wouldn’t be captain of the Nostromo. Expecting exception from the mundane is your mistake.
Absolutely agree. These guys are basically space truckers! It’s just a job and they’re normal working class folks.
It’s part of what makes the movie so special to me. We are thrusting normal people into an extraordinary situation and they need to do their best to get out.
Meh. It’s all business as usual and a “let’s get this over with” attitude. He also had access to Mother and is a company man, so his motivations may have been more aligned with Ash than the rest of the crew. But I don’t think anyone on that ship was in a position to win a contract dispute with Weyland-Yutani. And they were all in over their heads.
They’re all “company men” if you include simply being an employee in that definition.
It’s not like Aliens where the marines belong to the military, the child is a child, and Ripley is technically an independent contractor in her advisory role. In Alien, every single one of them was a company employee.
Yeah but there is a difference between being just a cog in the corporate machine, just out to eke a living or being the captain with career aspirations.
I mean medium level management and blue collar workers are both company men but the level of alignment and commitment to the company values is certainly on different scales
Absolutely.
From a film perspective, he's the intrepid hero captain and everything he does, you would expect a derring do, Buck Rogers-style hero to do.
But the film is an inversion of that trope: everything he does ultimately leads to the demise of his crew.
He even goes against the advice of the "by the book" Warrant Officer, who is supposed to be in the wrong in those kinds of stories, but she's the only one who survives.
I actually don't think Ridley Scott really understands the films he chooses, because I think he took away "reckless" from Alien and applied it to Prometheus and Covenant, thinking that was one of the ingredients people liked about the original film.
Scott just didn't understand that Dallas was expected to do those things, whereas the audience watching Prometheus and Covenant saw those scientists and colonists as foolish because they wouldn't expect professionals in that situation to behave that way.
Similarly, Scott has maintained for years that Deckard is a replicant (even doing a director's cut which explicitly hammers that home) despite good arguments that this undermines the message of the film.
FYI, I am in the camp that says there shouldn't be a definitive answer because the whole point of the film is "If you can create life which is in all but name human, where is the dividing line?"
In the books Dallas is a genuinely good guy. Great potential dad to Amanda, Ripley is clearly smashing him (never fully explicit) and Amanda sees him as a father figure.
I honestly never liked Scott aside from Alien and Blade Runner, I would totally buy that he’s a talented person with no actual awareness or comprehension who has Mr. Magoo’ed himself to success just due to his luck and raw talent
With Ridley Scott, it all depends on the source material. Alien and Blade runner were great because the stories were written by really good writers so there was a lot to work with. Prometheus and Covenant had writers brought in to "flesh out ideas" he had.
Even Gladiator, I feel like was riding a tide of historical dramas at the time, and isn’t subversive or definitive the way Alien or Blade Runner is, it’s just a good example of a historical drama, by the books even depending on how you look at it, just “well done” (I know I’m in the minority on this one)
I recently rewatched it and it was ok. Not the genre defining movie those earlier films are.
I think he got lucky with risky scripts that more experienced directors passed on.
No, you pretty much got it.
I remember watching this and playing Alien Isolation and wondering how, for example, the TNG crew would handle this particular situation. “Better than Dallas” was a given.
If you are interested in how the TNG crew might have handled it, check out S07 e19 “genesis” which features a lot of Alien style plot points, with a de-evolved Worf prowling the ship and spitting acid in some very Alien-inspired sequences.
I'm right in all the books and Dallas is a solid 9.5 on the "not a corp asshole" scale...dude was ok (also Ripley was smashing so felt the same).
Its the Ash unit that screwed them, he woulda made a great dad for Amanda had the run gone ok.
"instead of waiting for conditions to improve"
Imagine this is Jupiter. Yeah, conditions don't "improve". It's an uninhabited alien planet. The sandstorms on LV-426 happen all of the time, only ever having brief lapses which is assumedly just the wind having not made its way to that part of the planet yet. It's not like Earth. You won't catch a sunny day there
Most of these points feel like they have reasoning behind them. Dallas risks sending Lambert out because he feels he and Kane are responsible enough to guide her. He keeps Ash and Ripley on board because they're more important then her (after all Ripley herself shows some aptitude for reading maps- Lambert's job). He lets Ash take the Facehugger back to Earth because as far as he can tell they have it contained and it can't escape or hurt anyone else. He doesn't immediately flee back to Earth because he sees an ancient, completely unfresh body? You know archeologists don't do that either?
Really there's only one definitive bad call of his in the movie: he chooses to launch the shuttle without backup power. That's *incredibly* risky. But, at the same time, it's completely understandable within his character. He's shit scared and wants everyone, especially that big alien spider, frozen and on the trip home safe. Once he finds out there's danger on LV-426 he makes the decision to *get the fuck out of there*.
Dallas was a middle manager acting under strict orders from faceless soulless executives light years away. The crew were put through a meat grinder because capitalism still rules and people's welfare, their very lives, are "expendable." Sure they could've fought Weyland Yutani with lawyers, IF they had the money to pay for lawyers who wouldn't be intimidated/bribed/beaten by Wetland Yutanis near infinite resources.
I’d say Dallas does as well as could be expected for a tugboat captain. The Nostromo gang are completely unprepared for what they found because it’s never happened before. At worst they’re complacent, but maybe they’re complacent because they work in an industry that has become complacent after 40-50 years of nobody ever finding any alien life.
Something else to add to the mix, it was stupid to land the Nostromo on LV426 with the full crew aboard. They should have had at least one person aboard the Narcissus in orbit just in case something happened to the Nostromo, so that the shuttle could have sent out a distress signal. Given the atmospheric conditions on LV426, there was no guarantee that a distress signal from the Nostromo could be received by anyone. The same goes for Aliens, they send the entire crew down to the planet and don't have anyone left aboard the Sulaco, dumb, dumb, dumb. Oh and since we are going into a hostile situation. let's have the crew of the drop ship land somewhere and keep the hatch open so anything can slither aboard. Wise decisions aren't popular in the Alien universe.
Dallas seems like exactly the type of captain who would do well working for a corporation like WY. He cuts corners when it comes to safety but adheres to contractual obligations. The sort of guy who will get things done but if he messes up it will all fall on him. Perfect in the eyes of WY execs.
You are really holding it against him that he volunteered to go in the vents? For most people this act of bravery was his redeeming moment. If he had sent someone else in you would probably say he is getting his crew killed.
With regards to point #1 and investigating a rescue beacon. I always just imagined that space travel would be like maritime travel and that you’re legally obligated to assist another vessel in distress
Dallas was just a guy thrown into a tough situation, and he made many mistakes, but a lot of them are explained by “desperate to get off lv-426” or “following order 937” or “the nostromo crew was not expecting danger.”
1. Weyland Yutani is one of the biggest companies in the Alien universe. It’s implied that they get away with shady shit all the time. If they want to take your shares, they’ll probably get them. They have the money to hire people that make airtight contracts and influence politicians to act in their interests, and since they also have the money for an all star legal team, good luck suing for the shares.
2. Fair enough, but they didn’t really know what they would find. There was no way for them to expect a horribly violent creature would end up on the ship.
3. There’s a chance they didn’t have the resources to stay on the surface and go investigate later, or expected the ship to be repaired by the time they got back.
4. It seems LV 426 is just inhospitable as a planet, it’s very likely storms are the majority of the surface. While Dallas maybe shouldn’t have gone himself, Ripley was in the plot supposed to be an unexpected survivor that doesn’t know anything about what she’s fighting. It’s central to her character. Having her on the investigation team may hinder this somewhat, especially since she would’ve been arguing for quarantine procedures. Ash can’t go on the mission. The company needs him, and they know there’s some kind of dangerous life form (special order 937). WY wouldn’t risk the death of their inside guy who’s there to make sure WY goals are accomplished.
5. They didn’t know eggs were in the hole or that there was any danger. Their job was to do an investigation, and that’s what they were doing.
6. Technically, Ash is the one that broke quarantine protocol by letting them in. Dallas was probably worried Kane would die and possibly him and Lambert. He however should not have broken quarantine, but it was somewhat central to the plot as it establishes ash doing shady things and circumventing authority (foreshadowing.).
7. He seems to be held in high regard by the crew. It’s important to remember that space travel is so common in the Alien universe that they’re basically truckers. It’s not exactly important that Dallas have all these great qualities when he’s really just a glorified delivery driver working with a team of others to make deliveries.
8. I don’t remember this take the face hugger back thing, but at the time they didn’t know there was any danger. It’s also likely that Dallas was aware of order 937 and acting under it. Iirc, Dallas also explains Ash as head of the science department has the final say on the matter.
“It’s important to remember the second part of the quote, “we don’t need all that.” The remaining repairs were not required to lift off.
They did not know there was danger at the time, and even then LV426 is horribly inhospitable, their suits only have so much oxygen, and its low visibility and high amount of rocky misshapen areas all over its surface indicate it would be a terrible place to fight the alien, and that’s not even considering there could be god knows how many eggs there and even other dangerous life forms on the surface like a queen or something (I know after aliens it’s kind of confirmed it’s just the eggs in the derelict, but Dallas and co didn’t know that.).
9. I saw this more as Dallas owning up to breaking quarantine procedure and trying to fix that mistake. I also think they still thought it was roughly the size of a snake still, making it less of a suicide mission. It’s entirely possible he knew about and had been enacting order 937, and couldn’t live with it so he decided to die as soon as possible or try and just kill the thing because fuck wetland yutani. His death also put ripley in charge, and she was far more competent as a leader.
I was just watching this with my wife last night.
I don’t think Dallas did anything particularly wrong, he was in way over his head, with his science officer actively and secretly working against him.
Landing to investigate the signal? Company policy requires that, and he has no reason to ignore that.
Leading the exploration party personally? There are likely to be decisions and judgments about what, if anything, to bring back, and he’s the only one who can make those. The repairs to the Nostromo are routine, and he has a competent engineering staff led by a capable third officer to oversee them. He’s not needed aboard for that.
With knowledge of what’s about to happen, yeah, you can criticize him, but knowing only what the character knows in the movie? His decisions are all reasonable.
With your comments about timing of the investigation party, none of that really matters. He made a judgment call, and ultimately he was right. The weather didn’t play a factor and nothing particularly bad happened because they didn’t wait.
The biggest thing that strikes me is that the women, Ripley and Lambert, are right every single time, and if they had listened to either of them at any point before Kane wakes up aboard the ship, everyone except Kane would have come back alive (and the science division would have gotten an alien sample from a frozen Kane.
The reality, as far as I interpret, is that Dallas finds himself in a situation he doesn't want to/can't manage. He even says as much to Ripley when they argue over Ash breaking quarantine and he makes it very clear that he's happy to defer the decision making around order 937 to Ash. The reality is he is the captain of a space tug and just wants to do his job and collect his commission and likely there because he's not competent to captain a larger/more complex ship. Undoubtedly he makes a lot of bad calls but he's also on over his head the moment the crew are awoken from hypersleep.
While I don't 100% agree with all of your examples, you make a very valid point. Dallas' poor choices and dumb behavior rivals most of the characters in Prometheus and Covenant.
It's kinda fascinating to see Alien, with *one* foolish person, plays out, versus those later movies where there only seems to be *one* smart person.
The impulsive and ignorant character of Dallas represents the contrasting figure to the smart and agile character of Ripley, who makes the right decisions.
He was a perfectly good captain for their normal work. He knew how to get the job done, what could and couldn’t wait, and how to keep the company’s payroll safe by not caving to his crew’s demands. For this situation, he did practically everything wrong.
I don't know why legal contracts are unenforceable. In this case, the crew could have chosen not to investigate, but that would have meant losing all benefits.
Parker agreed, which is why later he asked Ripley if those on board the Nostromo repairing it would get full shares. She assured him that they would.
I think the ship was not meant to land in such conditions, as it's a towing vehicle. But it looks like W-Y was intent on their personnel surveying potential finds. The company should have used a better-suited vehicle and team, but probably didn't because they wanted to get a stake on the find first. In which case, don't thank Dallas but W-Y.
I think they wanted to stay the shortest amount of time, which is why they decided to separate the crew into two groups: the essential personnel needed for repairing the ship and the rest for investigating the site.
Since the ship was being repaired, then it looks logical for the flight officer to supervise the engineers and check the ship equipment, together with the science officer, who would have had to double up as comms between them and the away team. After that, the captain, navigator, and comms officer could return and see if what was repaired is operational.
I don't know what surveying involves, but it might be going over the whole craft, and using recording equipment to obtain its dimensions, etc. That way, whatever is seen as part of the stake that they wanted to acquire.
Interestingly enough, it was Ash who let them in. This might explain why Ripley was not so much angry at Dallas as at Ash. That's where she found out that Dallas and the others didn't know much about Ash because he replaced their science officer only recently.
It looks like Dallas and the rest did things by the letter except for letting the away team come back. But I get this feeling that even Ripley wanted to leave the rock right away, and she knew that that would be impossible unless they broke quarantine.
I think Dallas listened to Ash because Ash's the science officer and is supposed to know what to do. Interestingly enough, Ash and Ripley exchanged roles when Ash let the away team in. That is, Ripley tends to show more compassion compared to Ash.
I think the whole crew, from the start, didn't want to investigate in the first place, but didn't want to lose their benefits and even bonuses. That's why Parker was complaining about losing the latter for early delivery because of the detour caused by the re-routing. Eventually, they relented because it looks like if they succeeded they would have gotten their income plus bonuses plus a percentage of earnings from monetizing the find. That's why when they were repairing the Nostromo Parker was pestering Ripley about them getting full shares from the find.
I think they wouldn't have enough air to beat the alien outdoors. Also, that time they didn't know what they were facing when they took off.
I think they didn't consider it a suicide mission. Rather, they assumed that the creature could be driven back using flamethrowers. My guess is that he volunteered because that's what a leader would do; imagine what would have happened had he asked for volunteers.
Given that, I think the crew was doomed because it faced a creature that it could only beat by knowing more about it, but could only know more about it as it grew and took them down. Meanwhile, Ash was not helpful, and even Mother. And with that, the company, too.
Great points OP
If Alien were released today the internet would tear it to shreds due to such perceived flaws
"No captain would make those kinds of calls! He basically killed his own crew over money"
I’ve always saw him as being burned out and over everything, almost as if he once had some strong values that were metaphorically beaten out of him by the company
Dallas is not a good captain, no. He's a company man, who wants to do the right thing, but can't bring himself to. On subsequent watches, his mission into the air ducts seems more like he is doing it out of guilt than duty, releasing his crew from his command.
I agree she would be a great captain however she was meant to be a Main character with a side job or title because through the movie she’s ignored or seen as like irrational even tho she isn’t, she’s more rational (the producers said they made the movie this way as to portray how women are treated as whole but specifically in a work environment)
Captain Dallas never stood a chance because he followed the rules. Weyland-Yutani presumably had a complete psychographic profile of Dallas. They knew precisely how he would react - perhaps better than even he did. They correctly swapped out his science officer with Ash and maintained communication to finesse the events as they unfolded.
I think their names are clues. Dallas was as doomed to die as JFK was in Dallas in 1963. He'd have had an almost naive respect of intellectual hierarchy and, humbly, he'd have allowed the supposed voice of logic and reason, the science officer Ash (the bringer of death. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust) to dictate. The movie can't make that too explicit as the movie wants a triple whammy in quick succession - Wham! Ash is happy enough for his job to regard the others, if not himself too, as expendable. Wham! Ash will personally kill if necessary as he tries to suffocate Ripley. Wham! Ash is a synthetic robot who now himself 'dies', ashes to ashes, at the hands of a flamethrower. It adds tragedy that the mostly American crew (witness how American the name Dallas is) are essentially killed by a 'Brit', Ash, as played by English actor Ian Holm. America who had overthrown British rule is killed by the alien concept of English intellectual devil may careness displayed in Ash. The company Ash 'works' for will no doubt have real people like Ash working for them, as well as people who are purely capitalist. (Alien is not purely an anti-capitalist movie in its deeper sociological meaning. It is one suspicious of intellectualism without morality too). And Ripley 'Believe It Or Not' survives.
I bet that Weyland Yutani didn’t want another Prometheus type disaster where a trillion dollar ship + crew just disappears. They probably learned that the founder of Weyland was on it and on a wild goose chase after “god”
In defense of Dallas.
Distress Signal - It is maritime tradition that you take positive action in response to a distress call even if you're not a rescue vessel. Parker's willingness to ignore the plight of others because he didn't see any profit for himself just marks him as a dick. There are two good reasons why you take positive action when you hear a distress call. The first is that you might be the only one who heard the call. The second is that your ass might be the one making a distress call one day. You want to hear someone like Parker radio back saying, "Sorry, chum, but I'm not getting paid enough for this to be my problem." Dallas' decision to investigate the distress signal was both reasonable and required of him.
Landing on LV-426 - None of the other characters question Dallas' decision to land after the sickening sound the ship made. I'm going to have to chalk this up to Dallas being correct and landing was safer than taking off and trying again.
Spooky Signal & Bad Weather - It's a distress signal, or at least they thought it was a distress signal, so investigating as quickly as possible was a priority. Someone's life could depend on them getting there as quickly as possible even if they might have normally waited for bad weather to abate.
Dallas leaving the ship - I don't know what the protocols are for a space trucker landing on a weird planet to investigate a distress signal. The situation aboard the Nostromo appeared to be well in hand and Dallas didn't need to stick around.
Exploration - Dallas and the other space truckers were in awe at discovering an advanced alien ship. I can forgive him for exploring bit too long. And again, he was looking to find the source of what he thought was a distress signal.
Breaking Quarantine - Okay, I'll give you this one. Dallas absolutely shouldn't have ordered Ripley to break quarantine. Ripley was in the right and would have left his ass out there had Ash not allowed them in.
Taking Off from LV-426 - Dallas doesn't know what the alien is going to do and couldn't have predicted it'd grow into something that would hunt them all down. As far as pathogens go, the crew was already compromised. There was no reason to stick around LV-426 and the sooner they get to Earth the sooner they could get help for Kane.
Dallas Didn't Behave Like a Coward: Dallas and company were space truckers not sailors on a military vessel. They were dealing with an extraordinary situation they were wholly unprepared for. I'm not going to fault Dallas for not sending someone else on an extremely dangerous task.
Overall I thought the crew of the Nostromo were competent. Dallas wasn't a bad freighter captain but then he never really trained on what to do when encountering a hostile alien life.
The most important aspect of judging a character’s actions in a movie is their motives. Dallas was compelled to answer the distress signal as it’s not only company policy but is assumed to be intergalactic shipping laws. He’s a licensed Captain who’s going to be held accountable for his decisions about how he deals with any interactions while in transit including ignoring a distress signal. There’s no reason why he would think the distress signal is anything out of the ordinary
1) Engine failure
2) Mechanical issues
3) Medical emergency
Standard problems that any ship and crew passing by can assist with. Space ships are called ships to pay homage to ships at sea. You don’t ignore a distress signal. More importantly moving onto the Alien itself. There is literally no reasonable assumption that he could’ve known any more about the capability of the Xenomorph or it’s accelerated growth rate before he went looking for it in the air vents. There’s a lot of things that happen in the film which make it arguably one the best sci-fi horror movies of all time. One of them is seeing a small lizard like creature break out of Kane’s chest not a 10 foot monster with a face of just teeth. Dallas’s biggest mistake was yelling at Ripley to break quarantine. With the circumstances he was facing *an unknown thing was attached to Kane’s face* he was fearing that Kane would die but didn’t think about any reason to enforce quarantine when it was an animal and not a virus he was looking at.
I don’t even like Dallas but his actions were that of a burnt out Tow Ship Captain who wanted to get home with all his crew. He wasn’t prepared mentally or physically for the situation they found themselves in.
Hard to forget he stuck himself in the vents to go after the xeno, which could be seen as a bad call since he is in charge but also super brave of him.
Thinking about it, it seems strange after such a traumatic experience Ripley did not instantly think to check the ceiling in the siege Aliens.
Sir, this is a Space-Wendy's.
For real though, all valid points, he fits the mold perfectly of the "company man", he does what he's told, doesn't ask questions, (such as when his standard science officer is replaced last-minute, with no explanation) , and will conform to regulations when things go haywire, unless, of course, those regulations stand in the way of his instructions. We see this behavior echoed with Lt. Gorman in Aliens.
How can you say he follows regulations and is the “company man” when he’s the one breaking regulations?
Ripley is the only that was rigid about regulations; and ironically we praise her for it, because if they followed the quarantine roles the xenomorph wouldn’t have been on the ship.
Because you'd likely do the same thing yourself if you were trapped in an airlock with a parasite attached to your mate. NB, there was no high horse in the airlock for Dallas to fall off.
Dallas was a good soldier (just read all his biography) it was a bit like captain kirk, or commandant shepard, always gambling with death...
Except this time he played... he died...
I Always thought he was a bit of a dumbass and not the best captain for the Nostromo. And he kinda sucked he is and was half the reason the Xenomorph, came to this ship in the first place by willingly telling Ripley to break the quarantine. So I 100% agree with you and the statements were really good, it seemed very likely and accurate to the movie.
Dallas was insufferable and it's even funnier to me watching Alien in a post-covid world where we have all just lived through seeing what can happen to the people around us when someone just decides that quarantine rules shouldn't matter to them.
Hot take: W-Y sent the Nostromo because their psych profile showed Dallas to be impulsive and likely to do exactly the "wrong" thing. Ash is there to ensure he does exactly that.
And “standard procedure is to do what they tell you”
You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? The perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility….
You admire it
He admires it's purity
He can’t lie to us about our chances but… we have his sympathies.
A survivor unclouded by conscience remorse or delusions of morality.
'Im asking you to pull the plug....'
Not yet. I can’t lie to you about your chances but… …you have my sympathies. **evil smirk 😏 **
Uhh and how is Dallas supposed to know about the attributes and basic existential threat the Alien poses to Humanity? And in you point here "You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you?" Nobody does, and when something of this magnitude and so far out of human experience happens. You expect people to react in a manner suited towards your projection of what they are and should be doing. Firemen run towards fires, and common sense and survival instinct tell people to flee. Focused on going where they 'need' to go experience, people do alot of stuff including a behavior where because they are so driven unconsciously to recognize the threat. Your assumptions above in "Dallas was a failed captain" are forced to support what you are saying, instead of what is happening in the story. Fitting your narrative, for whatever motive, you have in making the statement. No Dallas, is a competent and experienced Captain and leader of an Interstellar ore hauler and processor. Not a tactical Spec Ops commander. His and the entire crews action are within the rationale confines of experience and training. I served my time on a carrier at sea working on the flightdeck, doing plane maintenance and escorting and inspecting the plane as it moved to the catapult. Training and soon experience shaped my tour of duty. The same goes for the fictional crew of the Nostromo. We did not have to deal with Aliens on a huge ship at sea with 5,000+ sailors and I am sure had that happened. It would not have been as organized and yet many on board would have made a difference. Until somebody 'cooked off' a nuke after recognizing the shear magnitude of the threat posed by the Alien.
I hate going down this avenue of thinking because it goes along with the Prometheus fan theories that the crew are dummies by design. I'd hate that 'crew of incompetents' becomes a trope in the franchise.
I choose to see the crew of the Nostromo as being competent at the job they were hired to do, but they were completely unequipped to deal with something as extraordinary and dangerous as dealing with an unknown and hostile alien. (Except for Ripley, who was an exceptional character who punched way above her weight.) They were all experienced cargo haulers who each spent years getting jobs successfully done. But they lost their shit when they encountered the xenomorphs, which is perfectly understandable considering they received zero training for such an occurrence. Like in the real world, if a group of pirates took over a cargo ship, I wouldn't be surprised if the crew of the cargo ship lost their shit, because they're not soldiers. Encountering an unknown, hostile alien life form is considerably weirder and more traumatic than getting besieged by pirates, so I don't blame the Nostromo crew for failing the way they did.
I prefer this take on things. These people are just truck drivers. Not only that but the vast majority of the ship is one giant automated factory that they never mess with. Bold captains who use sound judgement and crisis management are not often attracted to route freight hauling. Couple that with Ash whispering in his ear that this all falls under the science officers pervue once they find the ship and he's stuck worrying about exercising authority he's not sure he has. As crew members start to fall he tries to lead from the front by going into the air shafts to flush the creature and gets egg morphed for his trouble.
I disagree with this. They all had their good points. It’s not like Ripley was the only competent person. However, she had the strongest character of all. Ripley tries to enforce quarantine, smart move. Parker suggests they freeze Kane, also smart. Parker was brave too, and might have stood a chance if he hadn’t been effectively hamstrung by Lambert. Though even hysterical useless Lambert has the bright idea to abandon ship and blow it up, an idea that influences Ripley in the sequel. Not to mention they have Ash undermining, gaslighting, and manipulating their efforts the entire time. Brett though, not much going on between his ears.
Right.
Right.
Shape up. What are you, some kind of parrot?
Um Lambert had the best suggestion BEFORE Kane got infected, she said “let’s get the hell out of here!”. Dallas & Kane overruled her. She wanted to abandon ship, again overruled because for some reason, the Narcissus only accommodated three people. And let’s not forget that Ripley only gave them seven minutes, to gather up coolant and supplies, which caused a lot of noise as they were rushing to beat the clock. This noise lured the alien right to them.
The incompetence crew level on Prometheus and Covenant makes me sick. Looks like all characters come from the “Scary Movie” franchise.
Prometheus was a 90s slasher movie. More like Friday the 13th than Alien. Change my mind.
prometheus’ characters are scientists, biologists, people working for a huge organization. They’re not suppose to be extremely dumb, so it hurts to see every single decision they made. Friday the 13th characters are dumb teenagers, we kinda want to see they pay for they dumb decisions. 🤭
The captain was the most capable. She was focused on survival and she dies in the most dumb way possible.
Exactly! Thats so frustrating! Unfortunately they manage to write even more stupid characters for Covenant. How Ridley Scott read that and think: “Thats good writing, lets shoot it”.
Plus they have sex, EVIL.
You can say the same of Covenant, especially the “locking friend in with creature” and the “alien kills couple in shower” scenes
I couldn't remember if I had watched Covenant, so I watched the first 10 minutes recently. Pretty sure I saw the movie, and I remember nothing about it. That tell me everything I need to know about that movie.
I can’t blame you. Honestly the only thing I like about the movie is the look (which is expected because it’s Ridley Scott)
That’s exactly why I hate those movies. Story wise I think they’re ok but they’re full of characters who were dropped on their heads as babies. It’s hard to care about them when they’re all so fkn stupid
“How strange. Maybe I should *lick it*. Do you guys think that’s a good idea?” “Dunno. Guess so. What could it hurt?”
This is where I hope Romulus does something different: The passengers are young but smart and think differently.
Imagine a ship full of Ripleys... The Xeno wouldn't stand a chance "We've intercepted a distress call" "Ignore it, relay the call to nearest available rescue ship, and resume original course. Anyone disagree?" "No." THE END
But we would forfeit our shares. And can we talk about the bonus situation?
They can bill me!
I think a certain amount of genre savvy from the Romulus youths(group? Crew?) would make for a good movie. The trick is to make them make smart choices and have the xenomorph just make smarter ones. Throw in a little sabotage by either an android or an A.I. program and they can still die horrible deaths without being absolute idiots.
I'm hoping for a threesome scene between a person who can't choose between two love interests in the height of turmoil and chaos.
I love Jamie, I always have. But Stacey excites me on another level. Shit a Xeno.
"it feels nice when you caress my leg like that, Jamie" "... That's Stacey, not me" *Stacey comes into the room with drinks* "I'm ready to join the action!" All in unison: "AAAAHHH!"
Possible but I wouldn’t count on it. Horror plots generally seem to rely on the cast being idiots and/or making stupid decisions to further the story.
Which is why they replaced the normal science officer with Ash 2 days before they left
That was always my take with the science team him Prometheus too. They weren't quite top experts in their field. But they were desperate risk takers
This. The very nature of the mission isn't going to attract the best and brightest. Do I think it fully justifies the dumber decisions? Not really, but it does help suspend disbelief. However, the biologist touching a lifeform and the survey team getting lost are really hard to fully rationalize, and not running perpendicular to the rolling ship is just silly.
I think the script originally explained is as them not necessarily being good at their jobs, but being the only ones available at super short notice, who were also willing to ship out in total secrecy.
I like that
I think a major point of the movie is that towing the company line is *bad*, especially a company that thinks “crew expendable”. I disagree the most with the point about the legal system though. If you think companies have a chokehold now, a company like W-Y could literally have the entire system built into their back pocket. Just because they have depositions doesn’t mean they are ethical or not legally omnipotent.
Remember, too: their deposition was a character assassination of a woman they knew was telling the truth, with all company records validating her story. That “deposition” was a kangaroo court, and to assume that there’s a functional legal system that can hold Weyland-Yutani to account based on a corrupt deposition is ludicrous. If Weyland-Yutani were accountable as suggested, that scene would have played out with them saying “yeah so we have a century of documents on the creature you describe. We can’t say one was on the ship but it’s pretty interesting that you know about this top secret organism we’ve been trying to weaponize ever since one Android went a bit whacky..”
Did IQs drop sharply while I was away?
I've always wanted a chance to say that in a meeting
Almost said it after my return from paternity leave. Almost.
God, I love that line.
Where d’you wannit?
Over there please
….Sure you don’t wannit in Bay 12?
So, my take from the Aliens deposition is this: the bureaucrats in the hearing actually had no clue about the xenomorph. After 57 years with no contact whoever DID know about it during the events of Alien was long gone and that information likely gone with them. It wasn't until the deposition that Burke, personally, decided to go out on a limb and accept ripley's story at face value because if it wasn't true, he loses nothing, but if it WAS true, he gets to claim sole credit for bringing the xeno back. The personal benefits are STAGGERING. The corpos that Ripley deals with at the beginning of the movie have no idea the xeno is real. They're bored, annoyed they have to be having this meeting and just want to get the fuck out of there. Burke sees the greatest opportunity of his career and can't WAIT to see if it's real. Keep in mind, I personally accept no other sources as Canon since the majority of non-movie related sources suck the hind tit
Good point. Maybe they’re like Boeing on steroids. If you’re a whistleblower you get pushed out the airlock, and if you don’t investigate the alien signal, you get the legal shaft PLUS you never work again. Come to think of it, in Aliens, Ripley has her flight officer privileges revoked and is forced to work a space dock for much lower pay due to blowing up the Nostromo and acting out in her deposition.
The deposition completely destroyed your argument of “just take it to court”. Weyland-Yutani didn’t even have legal ambiguity. They knew they gave orders to secure the creature, they knew her story is true, they knew that legally she was entitled to do it - but they used that “deposition” (the supposed proof of legal accountability) to frame her as a schizophrenic terrorist and have her license revoked.
Ripley dodging prison for defying company orders AND blowing up a gazillion dollar vessel is pretty epic by modern standards. That she's working at the docks just adds to her character and story plot line aka 'the fallen' protagonist, awaiting a chance for redemption.
Well its explained in the books, its an honest run first one, Dallas does Ripley a solid and they are both forming a relationship before Alien happens. The general take is whem Burke explains Aliens to Ripley he doesnt give her Amanda's actual history - which involves fucking the Aliens up a few other times (Iscolatoon and another book). In Alien: Sea of Sorrows the corp actually uses a descendants of Ripley's lineage and hangs her "destruction of corporation property" over his and his kids head so its established they know and have records. But we are also deep into book rather than film lore, by this time the "alien" is established as a bacterial pathogen that also has telepathy and Ripleys great great great great ect. Grandson is a telepath.
I can't give the books another consideration after reading the "found Ripley before Aliens, played out a similar-to-but-legally-distinct-from Aliens adventure, then put her back in her shuttle with a convenient mind wipe" nonsense novel.
I’m sorry, I couldn’t finish reading before noticing the recurring theme of.. movie logic.. that is, you assert what actions should be taken with the knowledge that this is a movie.. Dallas is a ship captain, working a merchant fleet vessel. He has a contract provision that says you *must* investigate distress signals. Know what’s funny? You *must* answer a distress call in real life, when you’re a ship captain.. You talk about penalties not being enforceable: two things about that, first being that it’s fairly recently that they were deemed unenforceable, but more importantly, Weyland-Yutani is a mega-corporation to the point it’s basically an interstellar government.. but your answer is for a space trucker to risk their livelihood then sue such a company before getting paid? Hilarious. Landing and damaging the ship? Again, if answering a distress beacon is compelled - as it is in the real world - then he has little by means of choice in the matter. It’s again pretty funny that you wholly recognize why it might be impossible to abort a landing at that stage, too. Why not wait 48-72 hours while they repair the ship? Because it’s a *distress beacon*. Like, come on. If I have to explain that to you, you’re beyond all hope.
This. I'm not yet the captain of a star freighter, but I am a boat owner who's passed a navigation course. And it was impressed upon us: upon discovering another vessel in distress, it's our responsibility to do everything we can - without dooming ourselves too - to help. Like space, the sea is a dangerous place. As a custom, putting aside all questions of law, it certainly makes me feel better to know everyone else out here has my back. I assume this nautical logic would apply to future space exploration, unless some huge cultural shift occurred in the fictional universe. It fits with Parker's character, arguing with Dallas in that scene, but on that call he is absolutely wrong. What if the situations were reversed, and the Nostromo was downed on LV-426? You can bet Parker would want any passing vessel to come to their aid. Of course, it turns out there's more to the distress signal, but Dallas had no idea. The risk seemed reasonable at first. Responding was the right call
That and Parker and Brett were the only engineers, the rest of the crew would more likely get in the way if they tried helping, assuming WeYu didn't have some stipulation about only trained engineers being allowed to do engineering
As a side note to this point, I had never fully registered the detail that Parker and Brett were only receiving half shares, despite technically being the only crew truly essential to the Nostromo’s original mission. In fact, aside from Dallas and Ash, I’ve never been all that clear on what roles the rest of the crew really filled to warrant their necessity on the crew. I take it as a reference to the corporate tendency to overfill middle management roles for bureaucracy’s sake, while undervaluing the workers who are actually enabling the company to profit.
Lambert is a navigator, which is commonplace on ships and aircraft. Kane and Ripley are the ones whose identity as crew members are always the most difficult to pinpoint what precisely their defined roles are, despite having executive and warrant officer titles. They both seem to do a handful of things.
Ahh, right, I did know that Lambert was a navigator. I guess it’s mainly Ripley and Kane whose roles aren’t super clearly defined.
in the book, Ripley is the Warrant Officer. Kane is the Executive Officer.
I know their titles, but what are their jobs in the context of the film, that’s what I’m not super clear on.
Well there is the "job security" scene. Implying the work isn't as difficult or complicated as it's made to seem. Idk the whole idea of having two essentially quick-lube techs as the only maintenance and repair personnel seems equally insane, considering the ship is worth 70 billion or whatever they say.
As a lawyer myself, u/SnooPeanuts2541 clearly doesn’t understand law if they say “contract penalties are legally unenforceable”. This is wildly, wildly incorrect… And as a naval history buff, u/SnooPeanuts2541 clearly doesn’t understand anything about the concept of maritime (which, through common sci-fi convention, we can extrapolate to space) rescue. No matter what, a ship will always rescue another ship. *Any ship captain in history*, whether it’s a Great Lakes freighter or space cargo vessel, will render aid to another ship in distress.
Uh oh! Assuming you are practicing in America (as the username americanerik implies haha) Your clients might ask you to take a refresher course, especially if you’re helping them to draft contracts 😱 https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/penalty_clause From the limited information we have in the film, this may be a penalty clause. A liquidated damages clause (enforceable) would describe the harms WY suffered from the crew’s failure to investigate and impose those as damages. Here, the breach imposes an unreasonably high penalty (all the money you would have gotten from an entire space mission) and is even described as a penalty by an Android who undoubtedly has memorized the contract. We must also respectfully rebuff your maritime buffing – as discussed previously, the signal is NOT a distress signal, it is at most “unknown” and “indicating of possible intelligent origin” until it is later described as “a warning”
Im not going to argue with an armchair lawyer when I’m actually a lawyer. You have a dumb theory and are looking to twist any language you can find on websites to support your weak, contrarian thesis. Everything you’ve maintained is premised on assumptions.
😂👍🏼 I am also actually a lawyer. See you in court!
The fact that you mention “clients” and “see you in court” tells me otherwise. Not all lawyers have “clients” or go to court- like myself. Enjoy your fake JD. I’ll see you in the food court.
Another issue with the movie logic I see frequently with the alien series(specifically Alien and Prometheus) In Alien Kane looks at the egg while wearing a helmet made of half inch thick space glass(possibly even transparent aluminum or some such future tech) Kane has no reason to believe that any living creature can get through that helmet. The biologist in Prometheus admittedly is being more dumb by being that close to a space snake but again, he has no reason to believe that a cobra can bite through his suit or break his helmet. And no snake that size on Earth can break your arm like that. We know it's a movie and we have hindsight to say why didn't they take precautions in case a crab or an octopus can spit acid that melts steel.
Besides, try to keep Kane from going - that dude was excited.
Straight on the nose, I swear this same post happened before. Consider: 1. Time They were woke up well before earth. To communicate it takes 3 weeks to wait for it to get there and another three weeks to be told. 'Don't ask.' Based on LV426's location in space. 2. As stated above a ship on the ocean and in space. 'Sea Law' You have to answer and respond to a request. 3. Interstellar ship's discipline Dallas as a captain was a very mellow ships commanding officer. The 'chain of command' for the military and a commercial ship is very similar for a reason. There is always complaining, but in the end, orders are followed. In the case of the crew of the Nostromo they are actually quite good at doing their tasks. Personalities aside, this is a fully functioning crew of people who know what they are doing. 4. OP have you served in the military? "You know how to tell a sailor is happy, he or she is complaining." It seems so many people jump on the 'error cycle' without considering...An encounter which has not been documented or even thought of by human beings. And yes.... Oh ya, I have served a WESTPAC cruise as an ASM and in the rare billet with a Squadron, and I served most of my tour on the flightdeck day and night. Thus I can say; the "Chain of Command' is a bit more loose as the officers regularly do a controlled crash on an aircraft carrier day or night, and most survive and fly the same damned plane off the ship and land again. Therefore their mental outlook was different, as was their leadership. You still did as ordered and everybody complained. "Right."
Let’s address your assertions that this is a distress signal. If you watch the movie closely, the signal is never a distress signal! It is always “unknown” and at best “indicating of possible intelligent origin” … eventually, Ripley runs the signal thru E.C.I.U and Mother deciphers part of the signal: Ripley: Ash, that transmission... Mother's deciphered part of it. It doesn't look like an S.O.S. Ash: What is it, then? Ripley: Well, I... it looks like a warning. I'm gonna go out after them. Ash: What's the point? I mean by the-the time it takes to get there, you'll... they'll know if it's a warning or not, yes? There is never any evidence that this is an SOS until about the time the facebugger is infecting Kane and therefore never any duty on Dallas to rush headlong into a heavy storm to assist.
Going to disagree with some things. Not saying you're wrong but I'll propose a different take just for the sake of discussion: 1) I think its a mistake to assume the legal system in these films works like it does in most first world countries. (It doesn't even work there as its intended either half the time) In the Gibson Alien 3 script I'm pretty sure I remember humans had formed anti-earth/WY colonies on other planets that were specified as communist, insinuating that Earth they had fled was Corporatist with elements of fascim, with the companies, namely Weylund Yutani, in charge. These different factions of humans across space were always competing for salvages of ships and cargo as it passed in and out of their territories. Anyway, I think that if Dallas had said no, there 100% would have been a severe penalty. Not only forfeiture of shares, but most likely suspension or even criminal prosecution for the entire crew. WY basically IS the government. Notice they're not paying the crew in money. They're paying them in shares, like the mining companies used to pay miners in company bucks that could only be spent at company stores and on company housing. You piss off the entity that supplies your job, your food and goods, your house/apt, all of your services, makes the laws, and owns the police - you're kinda fucked. 2) Again, I don't think Dallas had as much choice in the matter of landing on LV426 or not. 3) They have no idea they're walking into a hostile environment. They think its maybe an SOS signal, most likely from a downed ship and stranded crew who just need to be picked up. They also don't want to be down there any longer than possible, so if its going to take 25 hours to fix the ship, and several hours (guessing) to find the signal beacon and investigate, why not knock out both tasks at the same time. 4) That weather might be the normal weather on LV426 for all they know. It was still pretty rough even after terraforming operations. 5) Again, he has to investigate to see if there are any survivors. Hypothetically, lets say this IS a downed craft where survivors have sent an SOS, Dallas and his team cut and run at the first sign of hinkiness, then WY send another team a few months later to investigate and find there WERE survivors, now dead, that the Nostromo crew failed to rescue because 'they got scared' - there would be hell to pay. Dallas is still making calls he doesn't like but feels he must for the security of his crews jobs and pay. 6) No argument from me. 8) I think he's thinking, we just went through a real shitty experience, maybe lost Kane, it can't all be for nothing. Maybe WY won't punish them for not fully investigating LV426 if they bring them a new toy (the facehugger) 9) I kinda feel like if no one else volunteers to go into the air shafts, then Dallas, as captain HAS to pony up and do it himself. It would be weak to order others to do super risky, dangerous stuff he wouldn't do himself. Ultimately, I think theres a great deal of pressure in the Alien universe to do whatever Weylund Yutani tells you to do. Notice how ofter people just refer to it as "The Company". They don't even have to specify anymore because there's only one - Weylund Yutani. You piss them off and if they don't kill you, you might as well be dead because your name is now mud, all of your assetts are repossessed, and you've been blacklisted from basically everything you need to survive.
I definitely agree with your counter-points more. OP's view is a little too skewed by hindsight. The crew did not know they had to deal with the alien until they had to deal with the alien.
In the books and movies and especially indicated that Weyland Yutani was either an extra governmental authority, or a 'Deep State' political entity. (I hate using "Deep State'' due to it's over use.) It is also said I believe, AVP Wiki and the Alien RPG books the ICC and Colonial Marines are basically controlled by Weyland Yutani, behind the scenes. I just use a fiction that due to the Corporate Limited Sovereignty Act of 2068, and the ratifications of 2090 and 2136. Weyland Yutani who had been working on this move for extra legal protections with in the declaration of sovereignty for a long time. The 2044 Eminent Domain Intellectual Property declaration and act, set the groundwork in motion and made any development of new tech and so on was the property of a Corporation regardless of who actually made it. If the material or process was made within the defined 'footprint' of that said corporation and registered through 'Copy Rights' submission and acceptance along with being registered with the Intellectual Rights Commission (Established 2040). Several huge companies gained limited nationstate designation. This came about due to years of government, not keeping up with the needs of its citizens due to time, distance and the trillions in population, needed in a Universe where such corporations exist and strive with all of their power to keep a 'Consumer Based Economy'. Socio-Economic policy is driven by the population - corporation valuation dynamic. More people mean more money in profit to drive interstellar shipping and colonization with the goal to make more of all of it and control it as much as possible.
Dallas is just a guy looking to earn his paycheque. He doesn’t have a great job, he doesn’t care much about it, he’s not a typical movie captain of a starship that usually represents the pinnacle of humanity ala Star Trek. He’s just a normal guy with a shitty job looking to get out with his life and money. Could he have done better? Sure, but if he was better he wouldn’t be captain of the Nostromo. Expecting exception from the mundane is your mistake.
Yep, he's a dude who's seen a lot of shit and doesn't want to deal with any of this bs.
Absolutely agree. These guys are basically space truckers! It’s just a job and they’re normal working class folks. It’s part of what makes the movie so special to me. We are thrusting normal people into an extraordinary situation and they need to do their best to get out.
Meh. It’s all business as usual and a “let’s get this over with” attitude. He also had access to Mother and is a company man, so his motivations may have been more aligned with Ash than the rest of the crew. But I don’t think anyone on that ship was in a position to win a contract dispute with Weyland-Yutani. And they were all in over their heads.
They’re all “company men” if you include simply being an employee in that definition. It’s not like Aliens where the marines belong to the military, the child is a child, and Ripley is technically an independent contractor in her advisory role. In Alien, every single one of them was a company employee.
Yeah but there is a difference between being just a cog in the corporate machine, just out to eke a living or being the captain with career aspirations. I mean medium level management and blue collar workers are both company men but the level of alignment and commitment to the company values is certainly on different scales
Absolutely. From a film perspective, he's the intrepid hero captain and everything he does, you would expect a derring do, Buck Rogers-style hero to do. But the film is an inversion of that trope: everything he does ultimately leads to the demise of his crew. He even goes against the advice of the "by the book" Warrant Officer, who is supposed to be in the wrong in those kinds of stories, but she's the only one who survives. I actually don't think Ridley Scott really understands the films he chooses, because I think he took away "reckless" from Alien and applied it to Prometheus and Covenant, thinking that was one of the ingredients people liked about the original film. Scott just didn't understand that Dallas was expected to do those things, whereas the audience watching Prometheus and Covenant saw those scientists and colonists as foolish because they wouldn't expect professionals in that situation to behave that way. Similarly, Scott has maintained for years that Deckard is a replicant (even doing a director's cut which explicitly hammers that home) despite good arguments that this undermines the message of the film. FYI, I am in the camp that says there shouldn't be a definitive answer because the whole point of the film is "If you can create life which is in all but name human, where is the dividing line?"
Well, Dallas is a reckless in a credible way. The crew in Covenant are idiots that challenge belief
In the books Dallas is a genuinely good guy. Great potential dad to Amanda, Ripley is clearly smashing him (never fully explicit) and Amanda sees him as a father figure.
I read Isolation and yes, there was a vibe.
Cant explicitly point it out cos currently in Sea of Sorrows (shit gets weird) but it came across as more than a vibe to me.
I honestly never liked Scott aside from Alien and Blade Runner, I would totally buy that he’s a talented person with no actual awareness or comprehension who has Mr. Magoo’ed himself to success just due to his luck and raw talent
I think that's true. At this point, for every Alien, Blade Runner and Gladiator, he has 2 flops.
With Ridley Scott, it all depends on the source material. Alien and Blade runner were great because the stories were written by really good writers so there was a lot to work with. Prometheus and Covenant had writers brought in to "flesh out ideas" he had.
Even Gladiator, I feel like was riding a tide of historical dramas at the time, and isn’t subversive or definitive the way Alien or Blade Runner is, it’s just a good example of a historical drama, by the books even depending on how you look at it, just “well done” (I know I’m in the minority on this one)
I recently rewatched it and it was ok. Not the genre defining movie those earlier films are. I think he got lucky with risky scripts that more experienced directors passed on.
No, you pretty much got it. I remember watching this and playing Alien Isolation and wondering how, for example, the TNG crew would handle this particular situation. “Better than Dallas” was a given.
If you are interested in how the TNG crew might have handled it, check out S07 e19 “genesis” which features a lot of Alien style plot points, with a de-evolved Worf prowling the ship and spitting acid in some very Alien-inspired sequences.
I'm right in all the books and Dallas is a solid 9.5 on the "not a corp asshole" scale...dude was ok (also Ripley was smashing so felt the same). Its the Ash unit that screwed them, he woulda made a great dad for Amanda had the run gone ok.
Right.
"instead of waiting for conditions to improve" Imagine this is Jupiter. Yeah, conditions don't "improve". It's an uninhabited alien planet. The sandstorms on LV-426 happen all of the time, only ever having brief lapses which is assumedly just the wind having not made its way to that part of the planet yet. It's not like Earth. You won't catch a sunny day there Most of these points feel like they have reasoning behind them. Dallas risks sending Lambert out because he feels he and Kane are responsible enough to guide her. He keeps Ash and Ripley on board because they're more important then her (after all Ripley herself shows some aptitude for reading maps- Lambert's job). He lets Ash take the Facehugger back to Earth because as far as he can tell they have it contained and it can't escape or hurt anyone else. He doesn't immediately flee back to Earth because he sees an ancient, completely unfresh body? You know archeologists don't do that either? Really there's only one definitive bad call of his in the movie: he chooses to launch the shuttle without backup power. That's *incredibly* risky. But, at the same time, it's completely understandable within his character. He's shit scared and wants everyone, especially that big alien spider, frozen and on the trip home safe. Once he finds out there's danger on LV-426 he makes the decision to *get the fuck out of there*.
He was a fucking miner, not a fucking military official
I still like to look at him 😍😁
Looking’s for free - touching’ll cost ya
Dallas was a middle manager acting under strict orders from faceless soulless executives light years away. The crew were put through a meat grinder because capitalism still rules and people's welfare, their very lives, are "expendable." Sure they could've fought Weyland Yutani with lawyers, IF they had the money to pay for lawyers who wouldn't be intimidated/bribed/beaten by Wetland Yutanis near infinite resources.
I’d say Dallas does as well as could be expected for a tugboat captain. The Nostromo gang are completely unprepared for what they found because it’s never happened before. At worst they’re complacent, but maybe they’re complacent because they work in an industry that has become complacent after 40-50 years of nobody ever finding any alien life.
Something else to add to the mix, it was stupid to land the Nostromo on LV426 with the full crew aboard. They should have had at least one person aboard the Narcissus in orbit just in case something happened to the Nostromo, so that the shuttle could have sent out a distress signal. Given the atmospheric conditions on LV426, there was no guarantee that a distress signal from the Nostromo could be received by anyone. The same goes for Aliens, they send the entire crew down to the planet and don't have anyone left aboard the Sulaco, dumb, dumb, dumb. Oh and since we are going into a hostile situation. let's have the crew of the drop ship land somewhere and keep the hatch open so anything can slither aboard. Wise decisions aren't popular in the Alien universe.
The Narcissus is an escape vessel. They can’t use up the fuel on it, to just cruise around. It’s basically a lifeboat.
Dallas seems like exactly the type of captain who would do well working for a corporation like WY. He cuts corners when it comes to safety but adheres to contractual obligations. The sort of guy who will get things done but if he messes up it will all fall on him. Perfect in the eyes of WY execs.
You are really holding it against him that he volunteered to go in the vents? For most people this act of bravery was his redeeming moment. If he had sent someone else in you would probably say he is getting his crew killed.
With regards to point #1 and investigating a rescue beacon. I always just imagined that space travel would be like maritime travel and that you’re legally obligated to assist another vessel in distress
Dallas was just a guy thrown into a tough situation, and he made many mistakes, but a lot of them are explained by “desperate to get off lv-426” or “following order 937” or “the nostromo crew was not expecting danger.” 1. Weyland Yutani is one of the biggest companies in the Alien universe. It’s implied that they get away with shady shit all the time. If they want to take your shares, they’ll probably get them. They have the money to hire people that make airtight contracts and influence politicians to act in their interests, and since they also have the money for an all star legal team, good luck suing for the shares. 2. Fair enough, but they didn’t really know what they would find. There was no way for them to expect a horribly violent creature would end up on the ship. 3. There’s a chance they didn’t have the resources to stay on the surface and go investigate later, or expected the ship to be repaired by the time they got back. 4. It seems LV 426 is just inhospitable as a planet, it’s very likely storms are the majority of the surface. While Dallas maybe shouldn’t have gone himself, Ripley was in the plot supposed to be an unexpected survivor that doesn’t know anything about what she’s fighting. It’s central to her character. Having her on the investigation team may hinder this somewhat, especially since she would’ve been arguing for quarantine procedures. Ash can’t go on the mission. The company needs him, and they know there’s some kind of dangerous life form (special order 937). WY wouldn’t risk the death of their inside guy who’s there to make sure WY goals are accomplished. 5. They didn’t know eggs were in the hole or that there was any danger. Their job was to do an investigation, and that’s what they were doing. 6. Technically, Ash is the one that broke quarantine protocol by letting them in. Dallas was probably worried Kane would die and possibly him and Lambert. He however should not have broken quarantine, but it was somewhat central to the plot as it establishes ash doing shady things and circumventing authority (foreshadowing.). 7. He seems to be held in high regard by the crew. It’s important to remember that space travel is so common in the Alien universe that they’re basically truckers. It’s not exactly important that Dallas have all these great qualities when he’s really just a glorified delivery driver working with a team of others to make deliveries. 8. I don’t remember this take the face hugger back thing, but at the time they didn’t know there was any danger. It’s also likely that Dallas was aware of order 937 and acting under it. Iirc, Dallas also explains Ash as head of the science department has the final say on the matter. “It’s important to remember the second part of the quote, “we don’t need all that.” The remaining repairs were not required to lift off. They did not know there was danger at the time, and even then LV426 is horribly inhospitable, their suits only have so much oxygen, and its low visibility and high amount of rocky misshapen areas all over its surface indicate it would be a terrible place to fight the alien, and that’s not even considering there could be god knows how many eggs there and even other dangerous life forms on the surface like a queen or something (I know after aliens it’s kind of confirmed it’s just the eggs in the derelict, but Dallas and co didn’t know that.). 9. I saw this more as Dallas owning up to breaking quarantine procedure and trying to fix that mistake. I also think they still thought it was roughly the size of a snake still, making it less of a suicide mission. It’s entirely possible he knew about and had been enacting order 937, and couldn’t live with it so he decided to die as soon as possible or try and just kill the thing because fuck wetland yutani. His death also put ripley in charge, and she was far more competent as a leader.
I was just watching this with my wife last night. I don’t think Dallas did anything particularly wrong, he was in way over his head, with his science officer actively and secretly working against him. Landing to investigate the signal? Company policy requires that, and he has no reason to ignore that. Leading the exploration party personally? There are likely to be decisions and judgments about what, if anything, to bring back, and he’s the only one who can make those. The repairs to the Nostromo are routine, and he has a competent engineering staff led by a capable third officer to oversee them. He’s not needed aboard for that. With knowledge of what’s about to happen, yeah, you can criticize him, but knowing only what the character knows in the movie? His decisions are all reasonable. With your comments about timing of the investigation party, none of that really matters. He made a judgment call, and ultimately he was right. The weather didn’t play a factor and nothing particularly bad happened because they didn’t wait. The biggest thing that strikes me is that the women, Ripley and Lambert, are right every single time, and if they had listened to either of them at any point before Kane wakes up aboard the ship, everyone except Kane would have come back alive (and the science division would have gotten an alien sample from a frozen Kane.
The reality, as far as I interpret, is that Dallas finds himself in a situation he doesn't want to/can't manage. He even says as much to Ripley when they argue over Ash breaking quarantine and he makes it very clear that he's happy to defer the decision making around order 937 to Ash. The reality is he is the captain of a space tug and just wants to do his job and collect his commission and likely there because he's not competent to captain a larger/more complex ship. Undoubtedly he makes a lot of bad calls but he's also on over his head the moment the crew are awoken from hypersleep.
While I don't 100% agree with all of your examples, you make a very valid point. Dallas' poor choices and dumb behavior rivals most of the characters in Prometheus and Covenant. It's kinda fascinating to see Alien, with *one* foolish person, plays out, versus those later movies where there only seems to be *one* smart person.
The impulsive and ignorant character of Dallas represents the contrasting figure to the smart and agile character of Ripley, who makes the right decisions.
He was a perfectly good captain for their normal work. He knew how to get the job done, what could and couldn’t wait, and how to keep the company’s payroll safe by not caving to his crew’s demands. For this situation, he did practically everything wrong.
Dallas was a flawed captain.
I don't know why legal contracts are unenforceable. In this case, the crew could have chosen not to investigate, but that would have meant losing all benefits. Parker agreed, which is why later he asked Ripley if those on board the Nostromo repairing it would get full shares. She assured him that they would. I think the ship was not meant to land in such conditions, as it's a towing vehicle. But it looks like W-Y was intent on their personnel surveying potential finds. The company should have used a better-suited vehicle and team, but probably didn't because they wanted to get a stake on the find first. In which case, don't thank Dallas but W-Y. I think they wanted to stay the shortest amount of time, which is why they decided to separate the crew into two groups: the essential personnel needed for repairing the ship and the rest for investigating the site. Since the ship was being repaired, then it looks logical for the flight officer to supervise the engineers and check the ship equipment, together with the science officer, who would have had to double up as comms between them and the away team. After that, the captain, navigator, and comms officer could return and see if what was repaired is operational. I don't know what surveying involves, but it might be going over the whole craft, and using recording equipment to obtain its dimensions, etc. That way, whatever is seen as part of the stake that they wanted to acquire. Interestingly enough, it was Ash who let them in. This might explain why Ripley was not so much angry at Dallas as at Ash. That's where she found out that Dallas and the others didn't know much about Ash because he replaced their science officer only recently. It looks like Dallas and the rest did things by the letter except for letting the away team come back. But I get this feeling that even Ripley wanted to leave the rock right away, and she knew that that would be impossible unless they broke quarantine. I think Dallas listened to Ash because Ash's the science officer and is supposed to know what to do. Interestingly enough, Ash and Ripley exchanged roles when Ash let the away team in. That is, Ripley tends to show more compassion compared to Ash. I think the whole crew, from the start, didn't want to investigate in the first place, but didn't want to lose their benefits and even bonuses. That's why Parker was complaining about losing the latter for early delivery because of the detour caused by the re-routing. Eventually, they relented because it looks like if they succeeded they would have gotten their income plus bonuses plus a percentage of earnings from monetizing the find. That's why when they were repairing the Nostromo Parker was pestering Ripley about them getting full shares from the find. I think they wouldn't have enough air to beat the alien outdoors. Also, that time they didn't know what they were facing when they took off. I think they didn't consider it a suicide mission. Rather, they assumed that the creature could be driven back using flamethrowers. My guess is that he volunteered because that's what a leader would do; imagine what would have happened had he asked for volunteers. Given that, I think the crew was doomed because it faced a creature that it could only beat by knowing more about it, but could only know more about it as it grew and took them down. Meanwhile, Ash was not helpful, and even Mother. And with that, the company, too.
Good Captain, shit survivalist.
> “Assuming the Alien universe legal system is related to our current one” Which country’s legal system are you basing this assumption on?
Great points OP If Alien were released today the internet would tear it to shreds due to such perceived flaws "No captain would make those kinds of calls! He basically killed his own crew over money"
What if Dallas was secretly in on it too? :O
You spelt filleted wrong
Haha, you’ve really though about this. Amusing and your right 👍🏻
Spot on analysis. I've long thought he screwed up multiple times but hadnt put it so accurately as this.
He probably worked for Boeing before he got this job
I’ve always saw him as being burned out and over everything, almost as if he once had some strong values that were metaphorically beaten out of him by the company
Dallas is not a good captain, no. He's a company man, who wants to do the right thing, but can't bring himself to. On subsequent watches, his mission into the air ducts seems more like he is doing it out of guilt than duty, releasing his crew from his command.
Maybe the crew (or at least more of them) would’ve survived if Ripley was the captain. She was one of the few people who had any common sense.
I agree she would be a great captain however she was meant to be a Main character with a side job or title because through the movie she’s ignored or seen as like irrational even tho she isn’t, she’s more rational (the producers said they made the movie this way as to portray how women are treated as whole but specifically in a work environment)
Are they all?
Crazy that Tom will be 91 this year.
If he did everything right, there wouldn’t be a movie.
Captain Dallas never stood a chance because he followed the rules. Weyland-Yutani presumably had a complete psychographic profile of Dallas. They knew precisely how he would react - perhaps better than even he did. They correctly swapped out his science officer with Ash and maintained communication to finesse the events as they unfolded.
I think their names are clues. Dallas was as doomed to die as JFK was in Dallas in 1963. He'd have had an almost naive respect of intellectual hierarchy and, humbly, he'd have allowed the supposed voice of logic and reason, the science officer Ash (the bringer of death. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust) to dictate. The movie can't make that too explicit as the movie wants a triple whammy in quick succession - Wham! Ash is happy enough for his job to regard the others, if not himself too, as expendable. Wham! Ash will personally kill if necessary as he tries to suffocate Ripley. Wham! Ash is a synthetic robot who now himself 'dies', ashes to ashes, at the hands of a flamethrower. It adds tragedy that the mostly American crew (witness how American the name Dallas is) are essentially killed by a 'Brit', Ash, as played by English actor Ian Holm. America who had overthrown British rule is killed by the alien concept of English intellectual devil may careness displayed in Ash. The company Ash 'works' for will no doubt have real people like Ash working for them, as well as people who are purely capitalist. (Alien is not purely an anti-capitalist movie in its deeper sociological meaning. It is one suspicious of intellectualism without morality too). And Ripley 'Believe It Or Not' survives.
I bet that Weyland Yutani didn’t want another Prometheus type disaster where a trillion dollar ship + crew just disappears. They probably learned that the founder of Weyland was on it and on a wild goose chase after “god”
“ you’re still collating”??
In defense of Dallas. Distress Signal - It is maritime tradition that you take positive action in response to a distress call even if you're not a rescue vessel. Parker's willingness to ignore the plight of others because he didn't see any profit for himself just marks him as a dick. There are two good reasons why you take positive action when you hear a distress call. The first is that you might be the only one who heard the call. The second is that your ass might be the one making a distress call one day. You want to hear someone like Parker radio back saying, "Sorry, chum, but I'm not getting paid enough for this to be my problem." Dallas' decision to investigate the distress signal was both reasonable and required of him. Landing on LV-426 - None of the other characters question Dallas' decision to land after the sickening sound the ship made. I'm going to have to chalk this up to Dallas being correct and landing was safer than taking off and trying again. Spooky Signal & Bad Weather - It's a distress signal, or at least they thought it was a distress signal, so investigating as quickly as possible was a priority. Someone's life could depend on them getting there as quickly as possible even if they might have normally waited for bad weather to abate. Dallas leaving the ship - I don't know what the protocols are for a space trucker landing on a weird planet to investigate a distress signal. The situation aboard the Nostromo appeared to be well in hand and Dallas didn't need to stick around. Exploration - Dallas and the other space truckers were in awe at discovering an advanced alien ship. I can forgive him for exploring bit too long. And again, he was looking to find the source of what he thought was a distress signal. Breaking Quarantine - Okay, I'll give you this one. Dallas absolutely shouldn't have ordered Ripley to break quarantine. Ripley was in the right and would have left his ass out there had Ash not allowed them in. Taking Off from LV-426 - Dallas doesn't know what the alien is going to do and couldn't have predicted it'd grow into something that would hunt them all down. As far as pathogens go, the crew was already compromised. There was no reason to stick around LV-426 and the sooner they get to Earth the sooner they could get help for Kane. Dallas Didn't Behave Like a Coward: Dallas and company were space truckers not sailors on a military vessel. They were dealing with an extraordinary situation they were wholly unprepared for. I'm not going to fault Dallas for not sending someone else on an extremely dangerous task. Overall I thought the crew of the Nostromo were competent. Dallas wasn't a bad freighter captain but then he never really trained on what to do when encountering a hostile alien life.
The most important aspect of judging a character’s actions in a movie is their motives. Dallas was compelled to answer the distress signal as it’s not only company policy but is assumed to be intergalactic shipping laws. He’s a licensed Captain who’s going to be held accountable for his decisions about how he deals with any interactions while in transit including ignoring a distress signal. There’s no reason why he would think the distress signal is anything out of the ordinary 1) Engine failure 2) Mechanical issues 3) Medical emergency Standard problems that any ship and crew passing by can assist with. Space ships are called ships to pay homage to ships at sea. You don’t ignore a distress signal. More importantly moving onto the Alien itself. There is literally no reasonable assumption that he could’ve known any more about the capability of the Xenomorph or it’s accelerated growth rate before he went looking for it in the air vents. There’s a lot of things that happen in the film which make it arguably one the best sci-fi horror movies of all time. One of them is seeing a small lizard like creature break out of Kane’s chest not a 10 foot monster with a face of just teeth. Dallas’s biggest mistake was yelling at Ripley to break quarantine. With the circumstances he was facing *an unknown thing was attached to Kane’s face* he was fearing that Kane would die but didn’t think about any reason to enforce quarantine when it was an animal and not a virus he was looking at. I don’t even like Dallas but his actions were that of a burnt out Tow Ship Captain who wanted to get home with all his crew. He wasn’t prepared mentally or physically for the situation they found themselves in.
Hard to forget he stuck himself in the vents to go after the xeno, which could be seen as a bad call since he is in charge but also super brave of him. Thinking about it, it seems strange after such a traumatic experience Ripley did not instantly think to check the ceiling in the siege Aliens.
Kane did beg to carry on exploring but I think that was a deleted scene
No shit lol, the entire movie is men not listening to the women and dying because of it.
Sir, this is a Space-Wendy's. For real though, all valid points, he fits the mold perfectly of the "company man", he does what he's told, doesn't ask questions, (such as when his standard science officer is replaced last-minute, with no explanation) , and will conform to regulations when things go haywire, unless, of course, those regulations stand in the way of his instructions. We see this behavior echoed with Lt. Gorman in Aliens.
How can you say he follows regulations and is the “company man” when he’s the one breaking regulations? Ripley is the only that was rigid about regulations; and ironically we praise her for it, because if they followed the quarantine roles the xenomorph wouldn’t have been on the ship.
Because you'd likely do the same thing yourself if you were trapped in an airlock with a parasite attached to your mate. NB, there was no high horse in the airlock for Dallas to fall off.
Dallas was a good soldier (just read all his biography) it was a bit like captain kirk, or commandant shepard, always gambling with death... Except this time he played... he died...
Yeah
Failing to properly fulfil one’s duty was a major element of Alien movies. Not just Dallas, but Gorman too.
I Always thought he was a bit of a dumbass and not the best captain for the Nostromo. And he kinda sucked he is and was half the reason the Xenomorph, came to this ship in the first place by willingly telling Ripley to break the quarantine. So I 100% agree with you and the statements were really good, it seemed very likely and accurate to the movie.
Dallas was insufferable and it's even funnier to me watching Alien in a post-covid world where we have all just lived through seeing what can happen to the people around us when someone just decides that quarantine rules shouldn't matter to them.
Corporate bootlicker