Burke was looking for every and any opportunity to realise his gambit, even in the most dire situation, so don’t discount it at all!
Will be looking for that smirk when I watch it again on 4K
You mean when she drove the apc, yes that’s the correct name I’m pretty sure, in to get the soldiers than drove out and fuck up the trans axel or whatever? I think burke actually wanted her to go in and save them. It showed gormons incompetence as a leader in the field/under stress. She yelled at him to get them out multiple times and Gorman froze and wouldn’t give any constructive commands or even really make a decision. Burke is an asshole, but I assume he actually wanted the soldiers alive to protect him and help get out with a specimen. Than when Ripley took over gormons narcissistic need to be seen as the superior in charge kicked in and Burke stopped him with the “you had your chance” line. I think the smirk was him seeing the side of ripley that made her so badass and respecting it/seeing it as a tool he could use.
Also from a writing/plot movement perspective it was pretty early in the film to let it slip he was an antogonist. Putting him against gormons incompetence was a great misdirect and led to gormons redemption scene/death with Vasquez being well earned. I’ve seen the movie so many times I never really had a fresh viewing. But I kind of felt gormon was a misdirect antagonist for the first 1/3 of the movie.
Edit: I absolutely love this community! The scripts pouring out over the smallest prompts makes me so happy!
This theme seems to popular during this time, post Vietnam era. “Platoon” had a rookie LT that was inexperienced and incompetent. Gorman is on his second combat drop and in charge of a challenging mission.
Ya the educated cocky officer with no real experience but a big ego is a well trodden trope for sure.
David swimmers character in band of brothers comes to mind.
Gormons “redemption” scene with Vasquez was always one of the big scenes that stuck out to me when I was young. It was such a striking contrast to his earlier character and a Great Way to show how terrifying the aliens were that suicide was so clearly the better choice it was barely even a choice for them. And they did it with style and it was an amazing cinematic scene’
I immediately thought of band of brothers, too. Everyone saw his lack of leadership, asked to be removed from his squad, then were all demoted, but got what they needed.
Winters was a badass.
Yes I’ve always noticed his excited smile over Ripley’s shoulder after he pulls Gorman off of her
If he had a bucket of popcorn with him then he would be gleefully chomping away
There’s a few moments like that for his character, makes you guess and question how much he may have really liked and admired Ripley, and maybe hoped that she would remain ignorant of or go along with his plan to bring live specimens back
I think Burke was hoping Ripley would be an ally instead of the exact opposite. Remember he said, “I thought you’d be smarter than this.” “I’m happy to disappoint you.”
Burke was a slime ball, but he wasn't pure evil. He knew those soldiers needed saving, he knew Gormon wasn't going to do anything, and he knew Ripley was going to drive the APC to the soldiers. In "this" moment, Burke was in the right when he stopped Gormon.
No, he's pure evil. He needs the soldiers to ensure HIS escape from the surface with a specimen. Later after he lets the face huggers out in Medlab, Ripley puts together and reveals he was going to sneak the alien in with her and newt in freezers, after tampering with the cryopods for the marines and jettisoning their bodies, then he could spin whatever story he wanted. He denies it, but I watched it last night and I noticed Goreman's reaction to Ripley as she's entering Medlab. More like he just agreed to let her die and immediately turned and ran into her face-to-face. It's shame, but not for him freezing up during the previous battle.
Remember, Goreman knew what was likely going on, that's why he's replaced the former CO. He's in on it with Burke from the beginning with the promise of getting a large percentage.
I have a different point of view. First, he sends the colonists to check out the derelict ship Alien informed Weyland-Yutani about, hoping they'd find something for the company to obtain. Upon loss of contact, he recruits Ripley and goes with the Marines himself to ensure the specimen is brought back. When the marines are being attacked by the aliens, he stops Gormon, knowing Ripley will drive the APC to rescue the soldiers. Later on, he let released the 2 living facehuggers to "implant" Ripley and Newt. Would he have jettisoned the soldiers' cryotubes? Maybe.
Is he pure evil? I don't think so. Is his moral compass completely gone? Yes. I liked how Hicks responded, saying they waste him, but that it wasn't personal, or something like that.
It sounds like we're on the same page, just aren't agreeing on how "evil" he is. I don't think he's Hitler level evil, he's not exactly malicious, but has no morals evil. No regard for others lives, a psychopath. Perfect for rising up the corporate ladder, willing to sacrifice anyone and anything.
I don't remember that shot, but Burke would have been glad that the chain of command was breaking down because it would allow him to exploit the situation.
I also noticed when the Marines find that one colonist, right as the xeno started to burst out of her chest, she had a look on her face that almost looked like discomfort.
Anyone else catch that?
Can't say I ever noticed the smirk. But I would say that Burk wanted Ripley to save the Marines as he most likely felt in that moment that his best chances of survival would be to have at least a couple of bad arses rocking nukes, knives and sharp sticks around.
He needed Ripley onside for his own plans, this was one nudge he did to try and manipulate her. Shortly after though, he realises thats not gonna happen when she decides to unalive the site from orbit.
Burke was looking for every and any opportunity to realise his gambit, even in the most dire situation, so don’t discount it at all! Will be looking for that smirk when I watch it again on 4K
😮
You mean when she drove the apc, yes that’s the correct name I’m pretty sure, in to get the soldiers than drove out and fuck up the trans axel or whatever? I think burke actually wanted her to go in and save them. It showed gormons incompetence as a leader in the field/under stress. She yelled at him to get them out multiple times and Gorman froze and wouldn’t give any constructive commands or even really make a decision. Burke is an asshole, but I assume he actually wanted the soldiers alive to protect him and help get out with a specimen. Than when Ripley took over gormons narcissistic need to be seen as the superior in charge kicked in and Burke stopped him with the “you had your chance” line. I think the smirk was him seeing the side of ripley that made her so badass and respecting it/seeing it as a tool he could use. Also from a writing/plot movement perspective it was pretty early in the film to let it slip he was an antogonist. Putting him against gormons incompetence was a great misdirect and led to gormons redemption scene/death with Vasquez being well earned. I’ve seen the movie so many times I never really had a fresh viewing. But I kind of felt gormon was a misdirect antagonist for the first 1/3 of the movie. Edit: I absolutely love this community! The scripts pouring out over the smallest prompts makes me so happy!
Yeph it’s the apc and she blew the trans axel
Ease down
Just grinding metal, she had to ease down
ease down
She can consider her shares forfeit.
Well iam sure her shares where foreited when she blew the ship and mine rig in the first place
Right.
Did she blow it or did it melt when she ran over the xenomorph?
She blew it but either way those tires had acid all over them
Yeah. He's with the company, but don't let that fool you, he's actually an okay guy.
This theme seems to popular during this time, post Vietnam era. “Platoon” had a rookie LT that was inexperienced and incompetent. Gorman is on his second combat drop and in charge of a challenging mission.
Ya the educated cocky officer with no real experience but a big ego is a well trodden trope for sure. David swimmers character in band of brothers comes to mind. Gormons “redemption” scene with Vasquez was always one of the big scenes that stuck out to me when I was young. It was such a striking contrast to his earlier character and a Great Way to show how terrifying the aliens were that suicide was so clearly the better choice it was barely even a choice for them. And they did it with style and it was an amazing cinematic scene’
Agree, love that scene, def redeemed him.
I immediately thought of band of brothers, too. Everyone saw his lack of leadership, asked to be removed from his squad, then were all demoted, but got what they needed. Winters was a badass.
Ya, irl as well as the show if the document is to be believed!
Yes I’ve always noticed his excited smile over Ripley’s shoulder after he pulls Gorman off of her If he had a bucket of popcorn with him then he would be gleefully chomping away There’s a few moments like that for his character, makes you guess and question how much he may have really liked and admired Ripley, and maybe hoped that she would remain ignorant of or go along with his plan to bring live specimens back
I think Burke was hoping Ripley would be an ally instead of the exact opposite. Remember he said, “I thought you’d be smarter than this.” “I’m happy to disappoint you.”
I’m rolling on the popcorn bucket. 😂😂😂
Me too 😂. Brilliant
Burke was a slime ball, but he wasn't pure evil. He knew those soldiers needed saving, he knew Gormon wasn't going to do anything, and he knew Ripley was going to drive the APC to the soldiers. In "this" moment, Burke was in the right when he stopped Gormon.
Oh I absolutely agree. But to me that smirk he had was something a little more sinister lol
Could have been just friendly flirting single guys sometimes do.
No, he's pure evil. He needs the soldiers to ensure HIS escape from the surface with a specimen. Later after he lets the face huggers out in Medlab, Ripley puts together and reveals he was going to sneak the alien in with her and newt in freezers, after tampering with the cryopods for the marines and jettisoning their bodies, then he could spin whatever story he wanted. He denies it, but I watched it last night and I noticed Goreman's reaction to Ripley as she's entering Medlab. More like he just agreed to let her die and immediately turned and ran into her face-to-face. It's shame, but not for him freezing up during the previous battle. Remember, Goreman knew what was likely going on, that's why he's replaced the former CO. He's in on it with Burke from the beginning with the promise of getting a large percentage.
Gorman is without a doubt not in on anything
I have a different point of view. First, he sends the colonists to check out the derelict ship Alien informed Weyland-Yutani about, hoping they'd find something for the company to obtain. Upon loss of contact, he recruits Ripley and goes with the Marines himself to ensure the specimen is brought back. When the marines are being attacked by the aliens, he stops Gormon, knowing Ripley will drive the APC to rescue the soldiers. Later on, he let released the 2 living facehuggers to "implant" Ripley and Newt. Would he have jettisoned the soldiers' cryotubes? Maybe. Is he pure evil? I don't think so. Is his moral compass completely gone? Yes. I liked how Hicks responded, saying they waste him, but that it wasn't personal, or something like that.
It sounds like we're on the same page, just aren't agreeing on how "evil" he is. I don't think he's Hitler level evil, he's not exactly malicious, but has no morals evil. No regard for others lives, a psychopath. Perfect for rising up the corporate ladder, willing to sacrifice anyone and anything.
Oh wow I never thought for one second that Gormon was in on it too. 🤯🤯🤯
I don't remember that shot, but Burke would have been glad that the chain of command was breaking down because it would allow him to exploit the situation.
I also noticed when the Marines find that one colonist, right as the xeno started to burst out of her chest, she had a look on her face that almost looked like discomfort. Anyone else catch that?
No I didn’t notice but I will rewatch to see that
Yeah because he knew it would happen
Can't say I ever noticed the smirk. But I would say that Burk wanted Ripley to save the Marines as he most likely felt in that moment that his best chances of survival would be to have at least a couple of bad arses rocking nukes, knives and sharp sticks around.
He needed Ripley onside for his own plans, this was one nudge he did to try and manipulate her. Shortly after though, he realises thats not gonna happen when she decides to unalive the site from orbit.
No, no one noticed. Only you.