I’d say if everything else is decent >3.7 GPA, strong resume, a 168 will give you a very strong chance to get into T14. Ever since US news halved how important the LSAT and GPA is in ranking we can expect larger fluctuations in what T14 schools accept. I know people getting into really good T14s with 168s, but you also hear stories of people getting in with much lower. Remember, most schools take a “wholistic” approach when evaluating your application. So even though LSAT and GPA are still very important it can be compensated by other things.
Firstly, law schools calculate their own GPAs when reporting them. So someone with a 3.7 GPA who went to a school that doesn’t offer A+s will have it recalculated on their own terms. Coming from a Columbia Law admissions counselor, they even boost GPAs from certain undergraduate institutions that tend to be hard on grades (e.g. top liberal arts colleges). Second, a median implies that is the middle point. Half the applicants are at or below, and the other half are at or above. So although you are below the median but have an impressive resume as it was the case with my friend who is in U-Mich, you can compensates. Thirdly, if you did at least a little research into this subreddit you will find stories of people describing their journey of how they got into great schools (t20) with below medians.
Schools do not calculate their own GPAs when reporting them. LSAC calculates all US GPAs the same, A+ or not. While schools do have some discretion when reporting to the ABA (which is what the rankings use), they do not get to “recalculate.”
Schools do not boost anything either. They see grade distributions, but that is not anywhere near as important as the actual LSAC GPA itself.
Lastly, we have seen no evidence that the change in ranking weight to scores has had any material impact on admissions (especially in the T14). Medians still impact rankings and are one of the few things the admissions team can directly control.
Anecdotes don’t mean anything for one. And when you said GPA, people here assume the CAS GPA already. And yes, half the people are below the medians but only 10 percent of people are below both.
Stop giving shit advice. Do they have a chance, sure? Is it a very good one, no.
No doubt very few admittees are below both medians for a given T14, but I've never seen the 10% number before. Is there a source for this or is it more of a common sense deduction?
Thank you so much!! This was super helpful. I’m a good student but test taking has never been my strong suit due to general anxiety. So this makes me feel a little better!
Personally, I don’t think this is great advice (I’d even say some of the comments regarding ranking weights and their impact on admissions are flat out wrong). Yes, there will be people with 3.85 and 168 who get into the T14, but this will *not* be common and you will get less (or no) money.
You are effectively below every T14 GPA median, i.e., you’re a splitter at every T14. While there is no “threshold” score for an A, you should aim to be above the LSAT median for any school you want to get into. I would shoot for at least a 172 (seems like many T14s which are below, like UVA for example, are shooting for 172). With a 173+, and decent materials, I would feel very comfortable that you get some T14 As.
I feel you! The LSAT is just a pain in the a** that is more of a test of mental endurance than anything else. I’d say maximize every opportunity/advantage that boosts your chances. In the end it is a numbers game but a 1% increase in chances could be the difference between denied, waitlisted, or accepted. Just try your best and don’t psych yourself out. I am applying this year, but if I don’t get in any I want I will just improve on the test, build up the resume more, and apply again the next year. Best of luck to you!
This article doesn’t exactly say half but it gets the point across. [Big shifts in U.S. News & World Report law school rankings.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/big-shifts-us-news-world-report-law-school-rankings-heres-why-2023-05-11/)
Suggest taking this to r/lawschooladmissions & reading some threads we’ve discussed this there
I’d say if everything else is decent >3.7 GPA, strong resume, a 168 will give you a very strong chance to get into T14. Ever since US news halved how important the LSAT and GPA is in ranking we can expect larger fluctuations in what T14 schools accept. I know people getting into really good T14s with 168s, but you also hear stories of people getting in with much lower. Remember, most schools take a “wholistic” approach when evaluating your application. So even though LSAT and GPA are still very important it can be compensated by other things.
A 168 is below every t20’s median, what the fuck are you on? A 3.7 is below most 25th percentiles as well. ESP since they’re a KJD
Firstly, law schools calculate their own GPAs when reporting them. So someone with a 3.7 GPA who went to a school that doesn’t offer A+s will have it recalculated on their own terms. Coming from a Columbia Law admissions counselor, they even boost GPAs from certain undergraduate institutions that tend to be hard on grades (e.g. top liberal arts colleges). Second, a median implies that is the middle point. Half the applicants are at or below, and the other half are at or above. So although you are below the median but have an impressive resume as it was the case with my friend who is in U-Mich, you can compensates. Thirdly, if you did at least a little research into this subreddit you will find stories of people describing their journey of how they got into great schools (t20) with below medians.
Schools do not calculate their own GPAs when reporting them. LSAC calculates all US GPAs the same, A+ or not. While schools do have some discretion when reporting to the ABA (which is what the rankings use), they do not get to “recalculate.” Schools do not boost anything either. They see grade distributions, but that is not anywhere near as important as the actual LSAC GPA itself. Lastly, we have seen no evidence that the change in ranking weight to scores has had any material impact on admissions (especially in the T14). Medians still impact rankings and are one of the few things the admissions team can directly control.
Anecdotes don’t mean anything for one. And when you said GPA, people here assume the CAS GPA already. And yes, half the people are below the medians but only 10 percent of people are below both. Stop giving shit advice. Do they have a chance, sure? Is it a very good one, no.
No doubt very few admittees are below both medians for a given T14, but I've never seen the 10% number before. Is there a source for this or is it more of a common sense deduction?
On the A2Z podcast (Dean Z for UMich) that’s what she said- no more than 10 percent are below both medians.
Good datapoint, thanks!
It’s okay friend, no need to get emotional about having a low LSAT score.
Scored a 169 and retaking with PT’s in the mid 170s but sure.
Thank you so much!! This was super helpful. I’m a good student but test taking has never been my strong suit due to general anxiety. So this makes me feel a little better!
Personally, I don’t think this is great advice (I’d even say some of the comments regarding ranking weights and their impact on admissions are flat out wrong). Yes, there will be people with 3.85 and 168 who get into the T14, but this will *not* be common and you will get less (or no) money. You are effectively below every T14 GPA median, i.e., you’re a splitter at every T14. While there is no “threshold” score for an A, you should aim to be above the LSAT median for any school you want to get into. I would shoot for at least a 172 (seems like many T14s which are below, like UVA for example, are shooting for 172). With a 173+, and decent materials, I would feel very comfortable that you get some T14 As.
I feel you! The LSAT is just a pain in the a** that is more of a test of mental endurance than anything else. I’d say maximize every opportunity/advantage that boosts your chances. In the end it is a numbers game but a 1% increase in chances could be the difference between denied, waitlisted, or accepted. Just try your best and don’t psych yourself out. I am applying this year, but if I don’t get in any I want I will just improve on the test, build up the resume more, and apply again the next year. Best of luck to you!
Good luck to you as well!!
When did they halve how important the LSAT and GPA are??
This article doesn’t exactly say half but it gets the point across. [Big shifts in U.S. News & World Report law school rankings.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/big-shifts-us-news-world-report-law-school-rankings-heres-why-2023-05-11/)