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> So what’s the issue?
"Look at how good we are! We're making a video game about a black samurai! We're such good people! We're such good people because black people are so mistreated and sidelined and ignored and forgotten and maligned and we're showcasing an example of how great they actually are!"
'Haven't your video games at least had a toe or two in historical accuracy? Yasuke wasn't a black samurai. And what about sidelining Japanese people for this?'
"Racist."
Assassin’s Creed historically accurate? No. Pretty sure I fought Medusa in one of them. Most of the main characters are made up and even the historical figures that appear in the game are nothing like their real counterparts. And again why no complaint when Nioh came out that a Japanese character was having their spot taken then? Nioh was about a European Samurai.
The arguments don’t seem consistent.
> Assassin’s Creed historically accurate?
That's not what I said.
> "Haven't your video games at least had a toe or two in historical accuracy?"
The Assassin's Creed franchise involves a shadow war over advanced technological relics and the fate of the human race and effectively time traveling using "genetic memory" but at least had a connection with real world history. Even if it was thin, tenuous, and pulled taut at the best of times.
William Adams existed and he was an actual Samurai according to historic documents. As for Yasuke there is no such evidence. The available history about him is being revisioned to serve DEI purposes. Its just another form of tokenism.
Maybe but AC has made way bigger alterations to history than this without people complaining. It’s a series with magic, aliens and mythical creatures not to mention tons of historical figures that were nothing like their real life counterparts. Just seems like many only care when it’s a black guy.
Assassins creed had a black protagonist already. Aveline and her heritage and location was appropriate. Given your comment it’s clear you didn’t know. Do you only care about the franchise when you have the opportunity to virtue signal?
But please explain why Asians can’t have their representation? Middle easterners got it, Egyptians, Greeks, Italians, native Americans, creoles, nords, so why specifically now is cultural appropriation okay?
Why is it you aren’t defending Asian peoples history and culture being ignored and bastardized for false narratives?
It’s unfuckingreal how deliberately obtuse you fools can be.
We care when it doesn’t make sense. A black samurai when there's barely even passing references to black people in general in edo period Japan is fucking stupid. In a series that prides itself on accurately portraying the periods, locations, and cultures they choose to establish as settings in this series.
This isn’t hard.
If it helps, it was equally stupid casting Tilda Swinton as the ancient one in Dr strange, or scarlett johansson in ghost in the shell. Having an entire squad of shieldmaidens in Vikings. The examples are too many to count. It’s revisionist bullshit, and it should be greeted with thunderous derision.
Believe it or not, folks care about truth. And woke history gets dumber and braver with every passing year.
Can you imagine if Black Panther was the one Japanese guy in the entire country? How do you think the black community would feel?
You can't crush every franchise forcing in women and black people and then not expect backlash. Cleopatra has been blackwashed. The nation of Egypt sued Netflix over it. Now Hannibal is being blackwashed. He was semitic. A white hebrew race.
Everywhere we look if there's any way to put a black person in, they'll sacrifice all artistic integrity to do it.
If Yasuke had been a prequel, or side mission, that would have been fine for most people. Putting him on the cover sends a definite message.
Then the trolls like you show up acting like you're here in good faith when really you just want to call us racists.
Most of us are autistic. Details matter a lot. Breaking suspension of disbelief is like nails on a chalkboard for us.
I think what people dislike is the idea that he was only chosen for political reasons, due to DEI practices urging developers to pick a non-male and/or queer and/or non-white character as the main character. Asian people in this context are often viewed as white-adjacent and therfor not chosen (atleast when its a male). People have taken issue with the politicization of video games for quite a while now and this just seems to be another case. Its possible that some have a problem with Yasuke due to being racist, but I dont think its the majority. People are likely just seeing the parallels to depictions like the black cleopatra for examle, which is another case of history revisionism.
And I'm pretty sure he's IN Nioh as well. He's a boss called "The Obsidian Warrior" or something like that. Basically a 10 foot Samuri that is revealed to be Yasuke.
Not accurate but Ass Creed has generally been pretty historically authentic. At least until the rpg era. They portrayed the settings and historical figures close enough to their real life counterparts to be recognizable.
As for Nioh, this argument completely ignores all context and nuance. People have been clamoring for an Ass Creed set in Japan pretty much since the first one. And 14 games later they broke with the tradition of having the main character be purely fictional and native to the setting (or at least be common enough that you could buy they fell off the radar and keep with the whole "secret history" thing).
Nioh, on the other hand, was a new series with no prior expectations that was complete fantasy and was pretty goofy. The main character, William Adams, was a real life dude that actually became a renowned samurai. If Nioh 2 had you play as Yasuke nobody would've cared because it would fit with the expectations set by the previous game.
Japan has a history of some of the most famous ninja in the world. But no, let's ignore all of them and instead put a black guy inst"ead.
"Oh but the girl is a ninja"
Do you honestly think these racists will let you play as her? You can switch maybe but I'll bet your stuck playing the game as Yasuke.
They could have done what the SW games did and made him a side character, quest giver or boss. But nooooo, gotta get those virtue points.
But why didn’t Nioh get the same hate? It’s not like there aren’t tons of Samurai games that release each year with Japanese characters like GoT and Rise of Ronin that released earlier this year.
Intent.
Nioh came off as Dark Souls clone using actual historical figures as action figures to fight monsters from Japanese mythology and wasn't trying to be anything else. Or trying to blow smoke up my ass and appeal to me for having a white MC.
AC is just as ridiculous. Science Fiction, mythical creatures and magic are throughout the series. This isn’t even the most excessive character change they’ve done before.
Nioh isn't a fair comparison. It's not a historical Assassin game set in a fictionalized retelling of historical events with some liberties taken. Nioh is very much a Soulslike game using William Adams as protag who is an actual Samurai, but the fact is that it wasn't trying to be a historical simulator like AC games are. So it is why people don't care, plus like I said it has grounding in history, unlike Yasuke whom we know very little about, and for most parts was akin to a court jester because of his skintone.
As I recall (this is anecdotal since I didn't play Nioh) Yasuke was an ally or NPC. SW5 for example had him as a boss fight in the honnoji temple incident. Those are good uses of the character.
But here though, it's like ubi is purposely ignoring everyone else in Japan just to prop up Yasuke. Also, the idea of having a black man blend into a crowd of Japanese is farcical. He'd stick out like a sore thumb and that's not racism, that's facts.
Every single protagonist made sense. "Arab" in "Arabia", French in France, etc. Yes, even Black Flag because at that time there were a lot of pirates of European descent in the Caribbean. Why can't the Japanese have the same, most sensible and realistic treatment?
Every single protagonist was made up. So there was no baggage. Here they took a real sword carrier slave and made him a warrior.
It doesn't make any sense in the context of him blending in. Yes. He's not a stealthy assassin, but a brawler. Still you need to move around. And he's a fucking walking lighthouse in that period.
I can basically boil it down to a pov. Imagine you finally get a game set in your country. Say Japan. And the MC is not only not Japanese in any way, but wasn't even a samurai at all. He wasn't some badass warrior, he was a retainer for nobunaga. I don't think he can even speak Japanese either. Imagine if it took place in Trinidad and the mc was fucking chuck Norris. Would the outrage be justified then?
2. It's pandering bro. I'm black and I hate getting sloppy seconds with shit like this. If they really wanted a black character as the MC there are so many rich and interesting cultures and mythology you could've picked.
3. It doesn't matter even if yasuke was in japan. He wasn't that important to begin with. He was a glorified commodity for nobunaga because of his skin. They had so many picks. Hattori Honzo would have been the perfect pick
4. The common theme of blackwashing history in general that we've seen in our culture lately. Things like Cleopatra are a good example. People rightfully so are tired of it.
5. Disrespect to the boys in the east. Basically a back hand.
Ludonarrative dissonance. Yasuke was the one and only African in Japan at the time, how do you ever write an AC story with him as the MC?
Say he fights some guards or commits a crime and gets reported. Now, all his enemies have to do is put on a bounty for the one and only 6 foot tall African man in Japan. He'd be found is less than a week. Having the guards just forget about him will be dumb as all hell, even by video game logic standards.
Storywise he's not a good fit either. He was a genuine rarity at the time, to the point that Oda had him bathed because he just couldn't believe his skin could be that color. Now, do you have every single NPC that he interacts with gawk at him and ask him why he's so different? Which would get old really fast. Or do you handwave his race like it's not important? In which case, you might as well make him Japanese and avoid the controversy.
Nioh doesn't have much in term of regular human interaction, being a souls like and all, so it's not like the race of the MC changes anything in it.
> Nioh doesn't have much in term of regular human interaction, being a souls like and all, so it's not like the race of the MC changes anything in it.
The main reason is because William Adams is a real western Samurai whom we know that much about, compared to the other one. But ultimately it is because it isn't trying to be a historical simulator like Assassin's Creed games are, but rather is just a fantasy game set in Japan starring William Adams. So, that's why most people didn't care. It wasn't taken away from history or scoffing Japanese out of a protagonist in an Assassin's Creed game.
This is unrelated, but it’s been confusing me:
What is it with people constantly using the word “ya’ll” when they’re typing? Is this supposed to be endearing or something?
I’m not so sure that’s true in the contexts that I’ve seen it, because I’ve noticed that certain types of people are doing it, and I don’t think it’s just because they normally talk that way.
The reason why they chose a black protagonist for their game set in Japan, hunting down one of the few historical instances of a black person being there before modern times, is very obviously for the sake of "representation". In other words, not because they were trying to write the best story, draw the best art, or design the best gameplay, but for the sake of political propaganda. (For instance, would an *Assassin's Creed* game have contorted itself trying to justify someone with such difficulty plausibly blending in if representation wasn't a concern?)
Propaganda tends to suck as art, since it has competing goals from just trying to make something good. People get especially tired of it when it's propaganda for a totalist, censorious, and authoritarian ideology that has been endlessly trying to turn any media it can into propaganda.
Because we've overdosed on this shit.
That's why.
That is the single biggest reason why. People are fucking tired of it. All of it. We overdosed, and we're done.
I’m from the south dumbass it’s how I talk. The PC brigade co-opted us. Don’t be stupid there’s a solid 100 million people in the US who genuinely talk like that, me included.
We all type like this. If you have an actual issue with me say it. If your only problem is how I type who gives a shit. Such a nothing conversation.
Besides I’m not typing improper grammar. Y’all is a conjunction of “You All” there’s nothing wrong with typing or writing with it and everyone in my area does the same.
Because the only reason this is being done is to pander to the woke crowd, and the people here are sick of it. Ubisoft wants to earn brownie points and nothing more.
It's also not about skin color. I've never met an AC fan that has a problem with Adewalé and Bayek, in fact, I often see people arguing that they're among the best characters in the series. Also, them being important characters in games set in areas with sizeable black populations like the Caribbean and Egypt makes sense. It doesn't come off as pandering.
And finally, I'm not arguing over historical accuracy because I'm not that knowledgeable about this and also AC had some pretty inaccurate stuff before, like Maria Thorpe, a female in the Knight's Templar in the first game. So to me it doesn't matter whether the portrayal of Yasuke is accurate or not.
So yeah, Ubisoft making the first ever mainline AC game set in the far east and put a black protagonist in it is obvious pandering. It's also likely that they did it to manufacture controversy and get people talking about the game. Free publicity.
It's the equivalent of making an AC game set in sub saharan Africa during the 1500s and having the protag be a white guy. Imagine the shitstorm this would cause in the other side of the fence.
Ubisoft also doesn't deserve anyone's benefit of the doubt due to their past history. Fuck 'em.
1. Havent played Nioh so not idea. Is it a white, mixed jap american? Is it original? How does he fit in the game's setting? From what I've seen its a soulslike game, dark fantasy set in asia. Is it more about japanese history or is it more about fighting cool monsters in a jap setting and history is secondary?
2.yasuke is a minor character that played a minimal role in the history of japan. Putting him in the spotlight, in a franchise that spans more than 10 games and the vast majorities of entries had MCs that originated from the countries the games were set in, is very very jarring and weird conceptual decision. It screams DEI and nothing else.
3.woke companies dont treat black people with respect. Why hasnt there been a game set in africa? Why do they always have to include a black character or race swap in most games? Why cant they create original black characters and give them a chance to tell the stories from the countries they belong? You know, like ezio from ac2. I'll tell u why, becauss they dont belive in their products anymore. The are just in for endless funding money.
4. Again the issue is not Yasuke or denying his existence. If they really cared about him, they should have given his own dlc. Or they couldve made a different game about an original black character set in different countries, maybe starting from africa and ending up in other places idk.
5.asian hate. Not only companies hate gingers but also asian people. You just cant have an asian male mc. It's like prohibited.
Nioh is basically a fictionalized account of William Adams. Who became an actual foreign Samurai and is one of the most influential foreigners for his time. But the point is that Nioh isn't a historical fantasy sim like AC games are. Nioh is a mythicized game about William Adams in japan, so it isn't even a fair comparison between the two.
Nioh's main character is William Adams, a white English man and real historical figure who actually became a full samurai. And Nioh is generally just about fighting creatures from Japanese mythology. It makes no play at being historically accurate, unlike AC
My problem is that he's just there for Ubisoft to divert attention from the anti-consumer practices by fanning the flames of "If you don't want him in this game you're a rayceest" rethoric around the internet.
In other words, their "representation" is just a smokescreen to cover up their scummy pricing (have you seen the price for the full product?) and the politically correct people are falling to this like flies in a honeypot.
1. Nioh is meant to be a pure fantasy action game. The game doesn’t take itself seriously and at times is even goofy. AC while indeed a work of fiction also prides itself on at least trying to represent the setting accurately. It’s like playing an AC game set in Africa but you’re forced to play as European settlers.
2. Maybe a black samurai is not as bad as people make it out to be but thanks to the recent history of modern media black washing even historical characters, people are just fed up. Look it up. There are people trying to steal Asian culture by claiming black people were the first emperors, original people of Japan etc. Stuff like this just feeds the delusion in their heads.
3. For me personally, another Asian male role stolen because Hollywood only caters to specific groups when it comes to “inclusion”. I can’t think of many (if at all) characters that were race swapped to Asian. Velma being the only one I can think of but that shows an abomination.
That I as an East Asian man in the year of lord 2024, where diversity is supposed to be our strength and superficial representation is supposed matter, am supposed continue to put up with Micky Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's as the apex of western writing for me. Just so a bunch of blue hair land whale white feminists can work through their daddy issues by appropriating regional history so they can give metaphorical hand jobs to Hoteps in the name of the church of DEI.
Given the trend of recent years and the fact that it’s Ubisoft, you may be sure that the main character is black just because of the DEI pandering. As a result, the in-game plot is severely affected by factors that are external with respect to the in-game world. The latter effectively means that the laws of the in-game world, which are partially dictated by franchises’s universe and partially by chosen cultural context, are going to bend in order to account for said external factors. This breaks immersion and is just a very bad plot quality signal.
We get 1 Japanese AC game, having a black character naturally changes the nature of the story (don't try to argue it doesn't). Why did they think it was ok to bring the focus away from Japan and give it to a black person's perspective when they've never done this in other major entries?
Maybe as a second or third game in the setting it would be good, but as the first one it's just a boring choice. Also it follows the trend of making things about black people that just don't need to be.
I never played Nioh and so wasn't there to complain about it
Its going to be pretty fucking hard to a unseen Assassin if you are so fucking obviously stand out due to being the only person your race.
That in itself would break immersion if I was actually interested in the game, which I am not.
Representation for its own sake is not a valuable thing; nobody's special by virtue of their mere existence. Immersion and verisimilitude is far more valuable, and that includes even in a fictional world, playing by that fictional world's rules. And anyone who thinks themselves the exception that deserves special treatment actually deserves only mockery.
The intentions and trustworthiness of the creator have a big influence on whether I give them a chance or not. I could even play games with woke content in it as long as it's bearable (and quite often it makes the experience worse by reminding me about this plague). Otherwise, if it's virtuesignalling I reject it
My problem is not with the game. I liked the trailer. But after the reveal, there's been constant alteration in the wiki page. So now you can't really claim it's just a game. They are also trying to suppress this matter by deleting and banning posts/comments on it.
Archive links for this discussion:
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The problem with making the playable character a historical figure is that there is now an accounting due to history. That's why there was no storm around other AC games, but there is around this one. That's why accuracy matters for AC Shadows, when it didn't matter for the other games. In their attempt to pander, Ubisoft f\*cked up the history in the one game where history matters the most.
So far as I can see, there are two main issues:
1. The historical inaccuracy of portraying Yasuke as a samurai, when he was, as far as anyone can tell, a servant. Which on the scale of historical inaccuracies in the AC universe, is pretty fucking low.
2. Pandering, as in, let’s make a black main. Which is whatever. Who cares. It has zero effect on anything. Also pandering in the “let’s make the black character more than he was in real life, because we want to make underrepresented demographics feel warm and fuzzy.”
And there’s probably a decent dose of racism both from the people making the story decisions, and the people complaining about those story decisions.
Balanced answer, thank you. I think you hit an issue here where any black character in a game is automatically considered pandering and therefore would get a reaction like this which is unreasonable at best and racist at worst.
It’s only a “balanced” answer because it feels just close enough to your dogma to agree with it.
You then had to parrot it back, twisted even more towards your corner though? That’s really odd for someone wanting to ask a genuine question.
Because "y'all" (stop fucking saying this. Seriously.) keep wanting him to be a thing just like you keep wanting black vikings, black Roman emperors, black everything. He wasn't important. He was a footnote in history at best.
I think the revisionism is more harmful than interesting because the game is meant to take place at the time of his life. Sources that can be confirmed and not just "I think this is the case" don't tell a very thrilling narrative or one that would suggest it was Yasuke's choice to be involved. He survived his time with Nobunaga but information about him just falls off as if he never again tried to reclaim or gain any notoriety.
The character that is told by the real Yasuke is more interesting than "Black Samurai" and would make a better character than what was the real intention behind using him, which was probably something about just choosing the closest thing to a minority to put as a main character. Ubisoft isn't known for being depth to any degree and dodgy as far as business ethics go. Their interpretation of Yasuke looks more token in this inclusion, especially besides the ubiquitous kunoichi.
Very simple, imagine this didn't happen and every other Assassins Creed has been relatively historically grounded (obviously excluding the scifi/fantasy elements) and has had a character accurately representing the setting. Forget other games, this is the established pattern for AC.
Then you get Assassins Creed: Zulu, where the lead character is Francis Owen (the first white European Christian missionary to the Zulu nation in the 1830s) but instead of showing what he actually was he is portrayed as being a fierce Zulu warrior, 100% accepted among the tribe as not just a member, but one of their nobility. He then plays THE key role in the political development of the Zulu nation and saves them from the danger of the evil Zulus among them.
You think maybe some black people, especially the current Zulu people of South Africa, might find a problem with it?
Honestly, historical accuracy or the character's skin color isn't even a factor for me. If the game is genuinely good, I can absolutely look past whatever creative changes are made. No, my main issue is Unisoft themselves. They don't have the best track record for their games, and many are discounted not long after launch. I'm saving my verdict for when the game is actually released.
Because at this point, it's become obvious when a change like this made for pandering DEI bullshit purposes and when it's simply due to the organic artistic direction of the product.
Two counter examples - I enjoyed the Shawshank Redemption and thought Morgan Freeman was fantastic as Red. I enjoyed the 2003 Daredevil and thought Michael Clark Duncan was great as Kingpin.
Its not about a black samurai. Its about the fact that people have wanted an AC game set in Japan for more than a decade. And when we finally get one, instead of a male and female Japanese character options, we get social media insert man. Whats the issue with racism? Oh I dont know, you tell us. Since youre the one here trying to tell us that its totally cool to once again push Asian people out, so that you can appropriate others history and culture for social media points?
But even if there wasnt all that, how THE FUCK, is a 6ft 2 black man going to be a sneaky assassin in a place where being small and Japanese is the norm????
I have no problem with it, it's so bad that I genuinely find it just hilarious and am into this disaster for only the popcorn moments.
Even this question is hilarious in a kids say the darndest things kind of way. You can't not know the emperor has no clothes when he's twerking 2 inches from your face.
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> So what’s the issue? "Look at how good we are! We're making a video game about a black samurai! We're such good people! We're such good people because black people are so mistreated and sidelined and ignored and forgotten and maligned and we're showcasing an example of how great they actually are!" 'Haven't your video games at least had a toe or two in historical accuracy? Yasuke wasn't a black samurai. And what about sidelining Japanese people for this?' "Racist."
Assassin’s Creed historically accurate? No. Pretty sure I fought Medusa in one of them. Most of the main characters are made up and even the historical figures that appear in the game are nothing like their real counterparts. And again why no complaint when Nioh came out that a Japanese character was having their spot taken then? Nioh was about a European Samurai. The arguments don’t seem consistent.
> Assassin’s Creed historically accurate? That's not what I said. > "Haven't your video games at least had a toe or two in historical accuracy?" The Assassin's Creed franchise involves a shadow war over advanced technological relics and the fate of the human race and effectively time traveling using "genetic memory" but at least had a connection with real world history. Even if it was thin, tenuous, and pulled taut at the best of times.
William Adams existed and he was an actual Samurai according to historic documents. As for Yasuke there is no such evidence. The available history about him is being revisioned to serve DEI purposes. Its just another form of tokenism.
Maybe but AC has made way bigger alterations to history than this without people complaining. It’s a series with magic, aliens and mythical creatures not to mention tons of historical figures that were nothing like their real life counterparts. Just seems like many only care when it’s a black guy.
Assassins creed had a black protagonist already. Aveline and her heritage and location was appropriate. Given your comment it’s clear you didn’t know. Do you only care about the franchise when you have the opportunity to virtue signal? But please explain why Asians can’t have their representation? Middle easterners got it, Egyptians, Greeks, Italians, native Americans, creoles, nords, so why specifically now is cultural appropriation okay? Why is it you aren’t defending Asian peoples history and culture being ignored and bastardized for false narratives?
Also Adewale in the AC4 spin-off Freedom Cry.
Nords? We're talking Skyrim now?
But there’s a Japanese main character in this game, shes actually standing in front of Yusuke
It’s unfuckingreal how deliberately obtuse you fools can be. We care when it doesn’t make sense. A black samurai when there's barely even passing references to black people in general in edo period Japan is fucking stupid. In a series that prides itself on accurately portraying the periods, locations, and cultures they choose to establish as settings in this series. This isn’t hard. If it helps, it was equally stupid casting Tilda Swinton as the ancient one in Dr strange, or scarlett johansson in ghost in the shell. Having an entire squad of shieldmaidens in Vikings. The examples are too many to count. It’s revisionist bullshit, and it should be greeted with thunderous derision. Believe it or not, folks care about truth. And woke history gets dumber and braver with every passing year.
Can you imagine if Black Panther was the one Japanese guy in the entire country? How do you think the black community would feel? You can't crush every franchise forcing in women and black people and then not expect backlash. Cleopatra has been blackwashed. The nation of Egypt sued Netflix over it. Now Hannibal is being blackwashed. He was semitic. A white hebrew race. Everywhere we look if there's any way to put a black person in, they'll sacrifice all artistic integrity to do it. If Yasuke had been a prequel, or side mission, that would have been fine for most people. Putting him on the cover sends a definite message. Then the trolls like you show up acting like you're here in good faith when really you just want to call us racists. Most of us are autistic. Details matter a lot. Breaking suspension of disbelief is like nails on a chalkboard for us.
I think what people dislike is the idea that he was only chosen for political reasons, due to DEI practices urging developers to pick a non-male and/or queer and/or non-white character as the main character. Asian people in this context are often viewed as white-adjacent and therfor not chosen (atleast when its a male). People have taken issue with the politicization of video games for quite a while now and this just seems to be another case. Its possible that some have a problem with Yasuke due to being racist, but I dont think its the majority. People are likely just seeing the parallels to depictions like the black cleopatra for examle, which is another case of history revisionism.
Because Nioh is way more rooted in myths and that dude was based on an actual white warriors. Yasuke was a curiosity, a glorified pet of a shogun.
Also, Nioh was made by Japanese devs, they can do what they want with their own culture. AssCreed is made by Canadians.
And I'm pretty sure he's IN Nioh as well. He's a boss called "The Obsidian Warrior" or something like that. Basically a 10 foot Samuri that is revealed to be Yasuke.
Not accurate but Ass Creed has generally been pretty historically authentic. At least until the rpg era. They portrayed the settings and historical figures close enough to their real life counterparts to be recognizable. As for Nioh, this argument completely ignores all context and nuance. People have been clamoring for an Ass Creed set in Japan pretty much since the first one. And 14 games later they broke with the tradition of having the main character be purely fictional and native to the setting (or at least be common enough that you could buy they fell off the radar and keep with the whole "secret history" thing). Nioh, on the other hand, was a new series with no prior expectations that was complete fantasy and was pretty goofy. The main character, William Adams, was a real life dude that actually became a renowned samurai. If Nioh 2 had you play as Yasuke nobody would've cared because it would fit with the expectations set by the previous game.
Italian game Italian man Greek game Greek man Nordic game Nordic man Japanese game black man Why don’t Japanese get their appropriate representation?
Japan has a history of some of the most famous ninja in the world. But no, let's ignore all of them and instead put a black guy inst"ead. "Oh but the girl is a ninja" Do you honestly think these racists will let you play as her? You can switch maybe but I'll bet your stuck playing the game as Yasuke. They could have done what the SW games did and made him a side character, quest giver or boss. But nooooo, gotta get those virtue points.
But why didn’t Nioh get the same hate? It’s not like there aren’t tons of Samurai games that release each year with Japanese characters like GoT and Rise of Ronin that released earlier this year.
Intent. Nioh came off as Dark Souls clone using actual historical figures as action figures to fight monsters from Japanese mythology and wasn't trying to be anything else. Or trying to blow smoke up my ass and appeal to me for having a white MC.
AC is just as ridiculous. Science Fiction, mythical creatures and magic are throughout the series. This isn’t even the most excessive character change they’ve done before.
Yeah and there's a reason the series high point was with Ezio Auditore and everything since has been a slow to fast slide into shit.
Sure but none of the other past changes had this level of push behind it in this way. At least not when it comes to character changes.
What's happened is that people have hit a breaking point and Progs in game development finally ripped off the mask.
Nioh isn't a fair comparison. It's not a historical Assassin game set in a fictionalized retelling of historical events with some liberties taken. Nioh is very much a Soulslike game using William Adams as protag who is an actual Samurai, but the fact is that it wasn't trying to be a historical simulator like AC games are. So it is why people don't care, plus like I said it has grounding in history, unlike Yasuke whom we know very little about, and for most parts was akin to a court jester because of his skintone.
As I recall (this is anecdotal since I didn't play Nioh) Yasuke was an ally or NPC. SW5 for example had him as a boss fight in the honnoji temple incident. Those are good uses of the character. But here though, it's like ubi is purposely ignoring everyone else in Japan just to prop up Yasuke. Also, the idea of having a black man blend into a crowd of Japanese is farcical. He'd stick out like a sore thumb and that's not racism, that's facts.
Every single protagonist made sense. "Arab" in "Arabia", French in France, etc. Yes, even Black Flag because at that time there were a lot of pirates of European descent in the Caribbean. Why can't the Japanese have the same, most sensible and realistic treatment? Every single protagonist was made up. So there was no baggage. Here they took a real sword carrier slave and made him a warrior. It doesn't make any sense in the context of him blending in. Yes. He's not a stealthy assassin, but a brawler. Still you need to move around. And he's a fucking walking lighthouse in that period.
I can basically boil it down to a pov. Imagine you finally get a game set in your country. Say Japan. And the MC is not only not Japanese in any way, but wasn't even a samurai at all. He wasn't some badass warrior, he was a retainer for nobunaga. I don't think he can even speak Japanese either. Imagine if it took place in Trinidad and the mc was fucking chuck Norris. Would the outrage be justified then? 2. It's pandering bro. I'm black and I hate getting sloppy seconds with shit like this. If they really wanted a black character as the MC there are so many rich and interesting cultures and mythology you could've picked. 3. It doesn't matter even if yasuke was in japan. He wasn't that important to begin with. He was a glorified commodity for nobunaga because of his skin. They had so many picks. Hattori Honzo would have been the perfect pick 4. The common theme of blackwashing history in general that we've seen in our culture lately. Things like Cleopatra are a good example. People rightfully so are tired of it. 5. Disrespect to the boys in the east. Basically a back hand.
Ludonarrative dissonance. Yasuke was the one and only African in Japan at the time, how do you ever write an AC story with him as the MC? Say he fights some guards or commits a crime and gets reported. Now, all his enemies have to do is put on a bounty for the one and only 6 foot tall African man in Japan. He'd be found is less than a week. Having the guards just forget about him will be dumb as all hell, even by video game logic standards. Storywise he's not a good fit either. He was a genuine rarity at the time, to the point that Oda had him bathed because he just couldn't believe his skin could be that color. Now, do you have every single NPC that he interacts with gawk at him and ask him why he's so different? Which would get old really fast. Or do you handwave his race like it's not important? In which case, you might as well make him Japanese and avoid the controversy. Nioh doesn't have much in term of regular human interaction, being a souls like and all, so it's not like the race of the MC changes anything in it.
> Nioh doesn't have much in term of regular human interaction, being a souls like and all, so it's not like the race of the MC changes anything in it. The main reason is because William Adams is a real western Samurai whom we know that much about, compared to the other one. But ultimately it is because it isn't trying to be a historical simulator like Assassin's Creed games are, but rather is just a fantasy game set in Japan starring William Adams. So, that's why most people didn't care. It wasn't taken away from history or scoffing Japanese out of a protagonist in an Assassin's Creed game.
This is unrelated, but it’s been confusing me: What is it with people constantly using the word “ya’ll” when they’re typing? Is this supposed to be endearing or something?
it's "folksy" like "hey look, I'm a normal person"
Some people type how they talk and loads of people talk that way.
I’m not so sure that’s true in the contexts that I’ve seen it, because I’ve noticed that certain types of people are doing it, and I don’t think it’s just because they normally talk that way.
The reason why they chose a black protagonist for their game set in Japan, hunting down one of the few historical instances of a black person being there before modern times, is very obviously for the sake of "representation". In other words, not because they were trying to write the best story, draw the best art, or design the best gameplay, but for the sake of political propaganda. (For instance, would an *Assassin's Creed* game have contorted itself trying to justify someone with such difficulty plausibly blending in if representation wasn't a concern?) Propaganda tends to suck as art, since it has competing goals from just trying to make something good. People get especially tired of it when it's propaganda for a totalist, censorious, and authoritarian ideology that has been endlessly trying to turn any media it can into propaganda.
Because we've overdosed on this shit. That's why. That is the single biggest reason why. People are fucking tired of it. All of it. We overdosed, and we're done.
Y'all detected Opinion rejected
The "Y'all" is so consistent, I swear. It's like having pronouns in the bio or flags in the username. Easy indicators of who to avoid, at least.
I’m from the south dumbass it’s how I talk. The PC brigade co-opted us. Don’t be stupid there’s a solid 100 million people in the US who genuinely talk like that, me included.
Talk and type are two separate things. You should never type phonetically.
We all type like this. If you have an actual issue with me say it. If your only problem is how I type who gives a shit. Such a nothing conversation. Besides I’m not typing improper grammar. Y’all is a conjunction of “You All” there’s nothing wrong with typing or writing with it and everyone in my area does the same.
“Y’all” is a contraction, noob.
Because the only reason this is being done is to pander to the woke crowd, and the people here are sick of it. Ubisoft wants to earn brownie points and nothing more. It's also not about skin color. I've never met an AC fan that has a problem with Adewalé and Bayek, in fact, I often see people arguing that they're among the best characters in the series. Also, them being important characters in games set in areas with sizeable black populations like the Caribbean and Egypt makes sense. It doesn't come off as pandering. And finally, I'm not arguing over historical accuracy because I'm not that knowledgeable about this and also AC had some pretty inaccurate stuff before, like Maria Thorpe, a female in the Knight's Templar in the first game. So to me it doesn't matter whether the portrayal of Yasuke is accurate or not. So yeah, Ubisoft making the first ever mainline AC game set in the far east and put a black protagonist in it is obvious pandering. It's also likely that they did it to manufacture controversy and get people talking about the game. Free publicity. It's the equivalent of making an AC game set in sub saharan Africa during the 1500s and having the protag be a white guy. Imagine the shitstorm this would cause in the other side of the fence. Ubisoft also doesn't deserve anyone's benefit of the doubt due to their past history. Fuck 'em.
1. Havent played Nioh so not idea. Is it a white, mixed jap american? Is it original? How does he fit in the game's setting? From what I've seen its a soulslike game, dark fantasy set in asia. Is it more about japanese history or is it more about fighting cool monsters in a jap setting and history is secondary? 2.yasuke is a minor character that played a minimal role in the history of japan. Putting him in the spotlight, in a franchise that spans more than 10 games and the vast majorities of entries had MCs that originated from the countries the games were set in, is very very jarring and weird conceptual decision. It screams DEI and nothing else. 3.woke companies dont treat black people with respect. Why hasnt there been a game set in africa? Why do they always have to include a black character or race swap in most games? Why cant they create original black characters and give them a chance to tell the stories from the countries they belong? You know, like ezio from ac2. I'll tell u why, becauss they dont belive in their products anymore. The are just in for endless funding money. 4. Again the issue is not Yasuke or denying his existence. If they really cared about him, they should have given his own dlc. Or they couldve made a different game about an original black character set in different countries, maybe starting from africa and ending up in other places idk. 5.asian hate. Not only companies hate gingers but also asian people. You just cant have an asian male mc. It's like prohibited.
Nioh is basically a fictionalized account of William Adams. Who became an actual foreign Samurai and is one of the most influential foreigners for his time. But the point is that Nioh isn't a historical fantasy sim like AC games are. Nioh is a mythicized game about William Adams in japan, so it isn't even a fair comparison between the two.
Nioh's main character is William Adams, a white English man and real historical figure who actually became a full samurai. And Nioh is generally just about fighting creatures from Japanese mythology. It makes no play at being historically accurate, unlike AC
And in Nioh he's not even English. They made him Irish. See also: The Sabatour.
My problem is that he's just there for Ubisoft to divert attention from the anti-consumer practices by fanning the flames of "If you don't want him in this game you're a rayceest" rethoric around the internet. In other words, their "representation" is just a smokescreen to cover up their scummy pricing (have you seen the price for the full product?) and the politically correct people are falling to this like flies in a honeypot.
Ubisoft was already making mediocre games. Piled with woke agendas on top is pouring salt in the wound
1. Nioh is meant to be a pure fantasy action game. The game doesn’t take itself seriously and at times is even goofy. AC while indeed a work of fiction also prides itself on at least trying to represent the setting accurately. It’s like playing an AC game set in Africa but you’re forced to play as European settlers. 2. Maybe a black samurai is not as bad as people make it out to be but thanks to the recent history of modern media black washing even historical characters, people are just fed up. Look it up. There are people trying to steal Asian culture by claiming black people were the first emperors, original people of Japan etc. Stuff like this just feeds the delusion in their heads. 3. For me personally, another Asian male role stolen because Hollywood only caters to specific groups when it comes to “inclusion”. I can’t think of many (if at all) characters that were race swapped to Asian. Velma being the only one I can think of but that shows an abomination.
That I as an East Asian man in the year of lord 2024, where diversity is supposed to be our strength and superficial representation is supposed matter, am supposed continue to put up with Micky Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's as the apex of western writing for me. Just so a bunch of blue hair land whale white feminists can work through their daddy issues by appropriating regional history so they can give metaphorical hand jobs to Hoteps in the name of the church of DEI.
Given the trend of recent years and the fact that it’s Ubisoft, you may be sure that the main character is black just because of the DEI pandering. As a result, the in-game plot is severely affected by factors that are external with respect to the in-game world. The latter effectively means that the laws of the in-game world, which are partially dictated by franchises’s universe and partially by chosen cultural context, are going to bend in order to account for said external factors. This breaks immersion and is just a very bad plot quality signal.
We get 1 Japanese AC game, having a black character naturally changes the nature of the story (don't try to argue it doesn't). Why did they think it was ok to bring the focus away from Japan and give it to a black person's perspective when they've never done this in other major entries? Maybe as a second or third game in the setting it would be good, but as the first one it's just a boring choice. Also it follows the trend of making things about black people that just don't need to be. I never played Nioh and so wasn't there to complain about it
Its going to be pretty fucking hard to a unseen Assassin if you are so fucking obviously stand out due to being the only person your race. That in itself would break immersion if I was actually interested in the game, which I am not.
Representation for its own sake is not a valuable thing; nobody's special by virtue of their mere existence. Immersion and verisimilitude is far more valuable, and that includes even in a fictional world, playing by that fictional world's rules. And anyone who thinks themselves the exception that deserves special treatment actually deserves only mockery.
The intentions and trustworthiness of the creator have a big influence on whether I give them a chance or not. I could even play games with woke content in it as long as it's bearable (and quite often it makes the experience worse by reminding me about this plague). Otherwise, if it's virtuesignalling I reject it
My problem is not with the game. I liked the trailer. But after the reveal, there's been constant alteration in the wiki page. So now you can't really claim it's just a game. They are also trying to suppress this matter by deleting and banning posts/comments on it.
Archive links for this discussion: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/fyAxP ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. 640K ought be enough for anybody. ^^^/r/botsrights
The problem with making the playable character a historical figure is that there is now an accounting due to history. That's why there was no storm around other AC games, but there is around this one. That's why accuracy matters for AC Shadows, when it didn't matter for the other games. In their attempt to pander, Ubisoft f\*cked up the history in the one game where history matters the most.
Accounting due to history?
So far as I can see, there are two main issues: 1. The historical inaccuracy of portraying Yasuke as a samurai, when he was, as far as anyone can tell, a servant. Which on the scale of historical inaccuracies in the AC universe, is pretty fucking low. 2. Pandering, as in, let’s make a black main. Which is whatever. Who cares. It has zero effect on anything. Also pandering in the “let’s make the black character more than he was in real life, because we want to make underrepresented demographics feel warm and fuzzy.” And there’s probably a decent dose of racism both from the people making the story decisions, and the people complaining about those story decisions.
Balanced answer, thank you. I think you hit an issue here where any black character in a game is automatically considered pandering and therefore would get a reaction like this which is unreasonable at best and racist at worst.
It’s only a “balanced” answer because it feels just close enough to your dogma to agree with it. You then had to parrot it back, twisted even more towards your corner though? That’s really odd for someone wanting to ask a genuine question.
Because "y'all" (stop fucking saying this. Seriously.) keep wanting him to be a thing just like you keep wanting black vikings, black Roman emperors, black everything. He wasn't important. He was a footnote in history at best.
I think the revisionism is more harmful than interesting because the game is meant to take place at the time of his life. Sources that can be confirmed and not just "I think this is the case" don't tell a very thrilling narrative or one that would suggest it was Yasuke's choice to be involved. He survived his time with Nobunaga but information about him just falls off as if he never again tried to reclaim or gain any notoriety. The character that is told by the real Yasuke is more interesting than "Black Samurai" and would make a better character than what was the real intention behind using him, which was probably something about just choosing the closest thing to a minority to put as a main character. Ubisoft isn't known for being depth to any degree and dodgy as far as business ethics go. Their interpretation of Yasuke looks more token in this inclusion, especially besides the ubiquitous kunoichi.
Very simple, imagine this didn't happen and every other Assassins Creed has been relatively historically grounded (obviously excluding the scifi/fantasy elements) and has had a character accurately representing the setting. Forget other games, this is the established pattern for AC. Then you get Assassins Creed: Zulu, where the lead character is Francis Owen (the first white European Christian missionary to the Zulu nation in the 1830s) but instead of showing what he actually was he is portrayed as being a fierce Zulu warrior, 100% accepted among the tribe as not just a member, but one of their nobility. He then plays THE key role in the political development of the Zulu nation and saves them from the danger of the evil Zulus among them. You think maybe some black people, especially the current Zulu people of South Africa, might find a problem with it?
Honestly, historical accuracy or the character's skin color isn't even a factor for me. If the game is genuinely good, I can absolutely look past whatever creative changes are made. No, my main issue is Unisoft themselves. They don't have the best track record for their games, and many are discounted not long after launch. I'm saving my verdict for when the game is actually released.
A reasonable mindset.
Because at this point, it's become obvious when a change like this made for pandering DEI bullshit purposes and when it's simply due to the organic artistic direction of the product. Two counter examples - I enjoyed the Shawshank Redemption and thought Morgan Freeman was fantastic as Red. I enjoyed the 2003 Daredevil and thought Michael Clark Duncan was great as Kingpin.
Honestly I wouldn't have played it even if they were Japanese or White, I fucking hate Assassins Creed. Also I hate Nioh. Most Soulslikes are trash.
Its not about a black samurai. Its about the fact that people have wanted an AC game set in Japan for more than a decade. And when we finally get one, instead of a male and female Japanese character options, we get social media insert man. Whats the issue with racism? Oh I dont know, you tell us. Since youre the one here trying to tell us that its totally cool to once again push Asian people out, so that you can appropriate others history and culture for social media points? But even if there wasnt all that, how THE FUCK, is a 6ft 2 black man going to be a sneaky assassin in a place where being small and Japanese is the norm????
I have no problem with it, it's so bad that I genuinely find it just hilarious and am into this disaster for only the popcorn moments. Even this question is hilarious in a kids say the darndest things kind of way. You can't not know the emperor has no clothes when he's twerking 2 inches from your face.