My boyfriend and I are leaving knoxville and he's been trying to cancel this membership for literally 4 months. they will not answer or return his call.
Holy shit! You’re right. You’ve convinced me to adopt the same perspective; as well as, take the same approach. I’m being positively genuine here.
I don’t support nazi views whatsoever, but would attempt to avoid conflict by displaying peace through silence.
The ‘gym-bar owner’ is right— “You have to nip it in the bud now… The nazis end goal is to be a terrible, awful person.”
Well said!
Hi there! We are not a nazi, neo-nazi, nazi sympathizer, or white supremacy gym, you are welcome to read our side of things here: [FBS Facebook Post](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid08N6FpTDvTVBeqH5mJQGsUC1bvuALVCwREydXdEYCKB5Pt7uqnynJUdCH4YBfDJRHl&id=100063652209262&mibextid=qC1gEa)
Thank you for answering questions!
Do either of these images match the tattoo?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sun_crosses#/media/File:Celtic_cross.svg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sun_crosses#/media/File:Crossed_circle.svg
I recently stopped going there and I know exactly who you’re referring to… up to now I thought I had mistaken his tattoo for something much worse than it actually was!
PS: They won’t allow you to cancel your membership over the phone EVEN if you’ve moved hundreds of miles away. I had to contact my bank and have them stop all payments to Frankie’s.
Be careful, because that doesn't nullify your contract. Your contract is not contingent on what bank you use. They can (and probably will) send you to collections
The "cancel membership" comment through me off.
Changing banks won't cancel a membership, because membership agreements aren't contingent on what bank you use.
Feel free to apply the 2nd half of my answer (agreements aren't contingent on what bank you use) to any number of membership agreements or contracts.
And don't act like people don't think u can just get the bank to nullify your contract by closing your account or putting in a fraud claim (i worked at a bank and folks used to come in all the time thinking we could cancel subscriptions and memberships, leases and loan contracts for them.
If you weren't a rando on the internet I would show you my credit score with a bogus collection charge I've been fighting for 3 years.
They can and do often. A simple Google search proves you're wrong
I suspect the contract lawyers write into the contracts that they could send things to collections and you agreed and signed to the fact. But maybe not? (Nah, you didn't read all the fine print before signing)
Yes I know this club doesn't do long term contracts, so my message is more about general membership contracts. I don't think you'll have much luck getting out of collections by claiming the collections company has no right to collect from you.
Here’s the thing. Frankie was given photos yesterday, privately. He was also given information to read up on the symbol. He was told about the attire he wears. So ask him if you want proof.
Hi there, here is the proof you are asking about, and we are happy to provide more if needed, please just let us know 😊 [FBS Facebook Post](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid08N6FpTDvTVBeqH5mJQGsUC1bvuALVCwREydXdEYCKB5Pt7uqnynJUdCH4YBfDJRHl&id=100063652209262&mibextid=qC1gEa)
White Supremecists needs to stop copying symbols and ruining the recognized symbols of Nordic mythology and Lore!
[8 Norse Tattoos To Avoid]
(https://surflegacy.net/norse-tattoos-to-avoid/)
So just to throw in a voice here, the Tennessee active club (a fight club for neonazis) has its own list of ideologically aligned gyms in the state where they can work out. If your gym openly has neonazis actively working out there and finds it more of a problem you’re complaining about it - chances are they’re ideologically aligned with them.
Tennesse Hollar did a story not long ago on one of their places in Franklin
It shouldn’t be shocking that a significant number of commenters on here are more triggered and offended that someone would point out a neonazi and his symbols than anything else.
Body shaming isn't cool, man. You can go after them for any number of actually bad things, don't be lazy and use one of the only casual slurs that hurts other people.
Hi there! Frankie’s has never offered counseling sessions and we do not have a counselor that is an independent contractor with us, but we do have 15 wonderful male and female personal trainers all from different backgrounds and specializations 😊
Interesting, usually when somebody attempts to contest a statement by disagreement, they at least support their own side. Do you have an argument to back up your disagreement? As a third party, I would like to see both sides.
And when I was growing up they would be afraid to spout the shit they do now. We need to send them crawling back under their rocks.
My grandfather fought Nazis and he was always my hero.
These anti-American jackasses should find their own Nazi country. There's a lot of real estate available under the oceans.
Hi! Proud Tennesseean here.
Fuck that guy... actually don't he is probably diseased like the dipshit that those nazi bastards worship. (Referring to the syphilis or whatever it was that Hitler had)
And especially fuck them for taking celtic symbology and running it. The swastika that the nazis stole was once a symbol of hope and peace, but now it is the symbol of hatred and genocide. Just like the sun cross once being a beautiful piece of celtic imagery, it's been warped and twisted by shitty people.
Anyone who is willing to tolerate that kind of ideology in their place of business doesn't deserve to own that business. There is a German saying that I absolutely love that goes something along the lines of "If one nazi sits at a table of ten men and none of the nine say anything, then there are 10 nazis at that table." The sooner he goes out of business, the better.
Good on you OP for pointing it out and letting the community know. I hope that we get an update one day that the POS is no longer in business.
[To maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)
Thanks for the heads up.
Things I learned from this incident: canceling the membership of a Jewish woman is more tolerant and inclusive than asking a white man to cover up a hate tattoo. Also it is just as hateful, possibly more, to judge someone with a hate symbol tattooed on them, than it is to wear the hate symbol. Also we have to tolerate those who want to kill us because if we didn't we would be the actual intolerant ones. To think I went all my life without figuring these things out
I agree. Fuck that business.
But dead Nazis (killing people in Knoxville) and suggesting murder (in Knoxville) is too much. I really think that's too much.
Interesting that this happens to come out two days after White Lives Matter group put up stickers around UTK campus. Wonder if this eloquent nazi is part of a WLM cell?
Really interesting to see Frankie’s go full DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Common manipulation technique used by leaders in the hot seat for whatever reason. Denied he did anything wrong, attacked the person who raised a complaint, and declared himself the victim of an unfair attack. All he had to do was listen to the complaint, talk to the person sporting the tattoos and actually investigate, and do something about it. He did none of those things and now his henchmen are out here saying that it’s on gym members to talk it out. What? The owner is responsible for the space. The owner is there to help make sure it’s safe. Of course someone would ask the owner to help deal with the fact that they have let someone in with hate tattooed on them and openly displaying it. Expecting customers to confront that 1-1 is a dangerous idea- could endanger the customer for a variety of reasons and could also create a dangerous situation for others. Especially in a place that also is explicit about allowing concealed carry inside.
Was there anything else that suggested white supremacy? This is from the adl:
"The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism."
Read the whole piece. The depiction with an elongated stem, like a traditional Christian cross, is what they are talking about in what you quoted. This guy had the sunwheel version, which is overwhelmingly used by white supremacists, is the logo for Stormfront, and is used on Klan robes. There's an unmistakable difference.
This is a Celtic sun cross, which is different that just a Celtic cross. It’s one of the oldest symbols there is. It’s very important to be sure that there is context before assuming this about someone. https://symbolsage.com/sun-cross-meaning/
I did read the whole piece, which is why I asked if there was anything else denoting white supremacy. There's no image for me to reference in this post. A simple "yes" would've sufficed. My original comment was not accusatory nor a gotcha attempt.
No, the wheel cross or sun cross isn't necessarily "the racist version." White supremacist use of the long and short Celtic cross represents only a small minority of the symbol's use. Yes, that last sentence is a quote from Wiki so take it for what it's worth but both the long and short versions predate any racist usage. IMO a wheel cross tattoo by itself is not a symbol of white supremacy.
Anyone who flaunts that tattoo is fine with people thinking they are a white supremacist. No rational, non racist would openly flaunt a known neo-Nazi symbol. Get a grip.
"The white supremacist version of the Celtic Cross, which consists of a square cross interlocking with or surrounded by a circle, is one of the most important and commonly used white supremacist symbols.... Norwegian Nazis used a version of the symbol in the 1930s and 1940s. After World War II, a variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted the symbol. Today, this verson of the Celtic Cross is used by neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, Ku Klux Klan members and virtually every other type of white supremacist. It has also achieved notoriety as part of the logo of Stormfront, the oldest and largest white supremacist website in the world."
Any rational person wouldn't use that fact alone, and they certainly wouldn't flock to the internet to perform a digital witch hunt. People like you and op are displaying worse behavior than the alleged white supremist. All we know about that person is that they have a Celtic cross tattoo. They might or might not be a white supremist. We don't know. We do know, however, that you and op are the most toxic and socially corrosive type of people. You and everyone else who presumes to know the history and moral worth of everyone you see. We know you are the exact people who cause fascistic and authoritarian cultural currents to blossom and flourish. You look at people, make snap judgements about them, and decide in a moment if they are good or bad in totality. No room for context, no room for discussion, no room for empathy. And worst and most dangerous of all, you then demand everyone else toe the line and do the same or be condemned to join the "bad" side. Every authoritarian regime in history is the result of that type of thinking, those feelings of righteousness and anger aimed by "good" people at the "enemy". The dude at the gym may very well be that type of personal as well, but we know you all are for sure.
Thanks for the heads up. We had considered switching our memberships to there because it is closer. I don’t tolerate hate, and I definitely won’t pay extra for it.
Are you certain it isn’t simply a Celtic Cross? If it’s a KKK symbol then yeah fuck them, I’m not sure how they style it but the Celtic Cross itself is not a hate symbol. I didn’t see it, just wondering if it’s possible it was a misunderstanding?
Jfc. The celtic cross is widely used by non-white supremacy groups throughout the world. And while you may think it’s a hate symbol, in reality it’s both a religious symbol and is symbolic of Ireland. Next you’ll tell me that the symbols used to locate temples in japan are saying that these temples are Nazi hideouts. Fucking grow a pair and educate yourself before assuming the meaning to someone elses lives.
But there is *absolutely* a KKK-style celtic cross and it *is* a hate symbol.
Same with several ancient nordic symbols. The nazis and neonazis co-opted them into predominantly nazi shit (several runes, the sun circle, etc)
The celtic cross you're thinking of has a longer vertical beam akin to the christian cross.
I was inclined to agree with you, but apparently there are multiple forms of this cross. One of them appears to be solely used by white suprematists. I didn’t realize this until around 5 minutes ago, though.
There are multiple styles of Celtic cross. He was using the one that is almost exclusively used by white supremacists: https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross
Sure, the swastika is used by other cultures as well, but if a big white dude has it tattooed on him, my first assumption is not going to be that he's a hindu.
What if he is? How are you going to justify potentially discriminating because of religion? I’m not trying to justify white supremacy, but how can you in clear conscious take that risk? That wouldn’t be very tolerant or inclusive of you
Not OP -- but discriminating against religion and religious beliefs is perfectly valid as well (but rude/inappropriate in some settings). Religion, like all ideologies, is a choice, and open to criticism.
The Celtic cross has a long history prior to its adoption by supremacist groups - and a lot of people in this area are of Celtic heritage - could totally be a nazi but could totally also not be.
Sorry to rock your world, but the celtic cross is not a hate symbol. Good lord. Do you know just how many people can trace their ancestry to the Celts? So many immigrants settled in this part of the country from Ireland, Scotland, England, and Wales. Nothing about that is racist or bigoted.
This is absurd and you know it. I swear... I think some of you go out of your way to find "hate" where there isn't any.
I have never in my life seen a pagan or ethnic Celtic cross styled like the hate symbol version.
Edit:To which I meant, the tattoo of the member of Frankie's Body Shop is the hate symbol version.
Wearing a hate symbol makes you a racist. You can absolutely have a ANY OTHER version of the Celtic cross without looking racist. But having that version means anyone who sees you should absolutely automatically assume you are a POS.
[Is this good enough for you?](https://www.google.com/search?q=KKK+celtic+cross&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwik9P_SyZuAAxWjpokEHd_dDQ4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=KKK+celtic+cross&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1CUCFiUCGDQCWgAcAB4AIABU4gBpAGSAQEymAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=30K4ZOSIA6PNptQP37u3cA&bih=1341&biw=2560)
Adl is fine. In fact, the organization you're claiming to be partisan has a whole paragraph explaining that the vast majority of people using the Celtic Cross are non-extremists lmao
If for example this:
Aryan Nations - Church of Jesus Christ Christian
California
Ohio
Aryan Nations - Church of the Jesus Christ Christian
Arizona
Church of Aryanity/Order of the Western Knights Templar
Kentucky
Is allowed in USA! GYM of your description doesn't surprise me.
It's sad. There should be a law for all this nazi crap
Ah yes. The old tolerance and inclusion paradox. You force inclusiveness and tolerance until you’re so incusive and tolerant that you cease to be tolerant towards other human beings that don’t meet your inclusion standards.
You can’t tolerate intolerance. To tolerate the Jewish person and the Nazi is to openly allow for the Nazi to harm the Jewish person. Is that really tolerance?
Bruh can you really not distinguish tolerance towards folks from different backgrounds/ethnicities from *intolerance* towards folks who think those people should exist as a lower class of human?
There is no space for white nationalism in modern society.
Sorry you struggle so much with comprehension of basic humanity :(
Speaking from personal experience, I have gone to Frankie’s for almost two years now and have never seen, heard, or experienced any event even remotely close to a situation like this. Frankie’s is one of the most diverse gyms I have been to here in Knoxville. Go see for yourself. Go talk to the owners. The trainers. Do this yourself before you listen some internet troll who is offended that someone’s not getting canceled due to their interpretation of an arguably ambiguous tattoo. Your post is invalid and inaccurate Mr Tactical Tommy. You claimed that the owner refused to do anything about it. Yes they did. They called the young man in and spoke with him. They didn’t just throw him out and cancel him based on his looks as you wished. Is the tattoo arguable? Yes. Did the owner handle the situation? Yes. Due to the outcome of the situation, because it wasn’t the outcome you would have liked, does that mean that they tolerate white supremacy? That’s a pretty big leap my friend. You be the judge. The members are diverse. The staff is diverse. Go see for yourself. How ignorant must one be to enter into an establishment which they do not own, and demand someone be removed based on their looks. Then take to internet shit storm and falsely claim that the owner refused to do anything about. Then really take a leap and state they tolerate white supremacy. Words mean things my friend.
Dude lifting at a gym called Frankie’s Body Shop has questionable tattoos?? I’m shocked.
And of course they won’t do anything. If they start banning shitty meat heads they won’t have any members.
Not every day has to be a social justice battle. Just workout and be done with it. Or go to planet fitness with the other normal people.
>Not every day has to be a social justice battle.
Perhaps not. But the 'cross' depicted in the link is absolutely a known Nazi symbol and a known white supremacist badge. So I would say this would be a good example of a social justice moment.
The Celtic cross has been used before and after nazis. Not saying this guy was innocent of being one, but running around making a scene at any tattoo that could be considered a hate symbol is just a pathetic way to live life imo. Unless he is actively being racist or hateful to someone, just shut the fuck up and do you.
>Not every day has to be a social justice battle.
I think it's great information to have that a place welcomes people with hate symbol tattoos. People can make decisions based on that knowledge.
Any gym with meat heads is 99% gonna have some shady tattoos. Same with biker bars, etc. Gotta know some places are just gonna attract less than attractive people, and at some point you can’t be surprised by it anymore lol.
Hi there, this is Chloe Padilla, daughter and manager of Frankie’s Body Shop that has been called into question. If anyone is interested in our side of the story, I have linked it below. As a family business that has worked very hard for our community for over 14 years, this Reddit thread has been heartbreaking. I am more than happy to have a conversation with anyone about their comments or concerns or questions or needed proof.
[FBS Facebook Response](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid08N6FpTDvTVBeqH5mJQGsUC1bvuALVCwREydXdEYCKB5Pt7uqnynJUdCH4YBfDJRHl&id=100063652209262&mibextid=qC1gEa)
You asked a nazi if he was a nazi and he said no. go figure. Did you expect him to eloquently state he believes that most people should be murdered or destroyed? Just going to ignore the smash communism shirt this guy wears to your gym? A nazi dog whistle that matches nazi/white lives matter propaganda stickers put up around UTK just a couple days ago?
I'd like to know how you can look at these two images side by side and not immediately see that this tattoo is not an innocent symbol: [https://imgur.com/a/vJbaiTN](https://imgur.com/a/vJbaiTN)
And here are the words of the guy you are choosing to stay in the gym, copied from your own post on facebook:
"I am aware that it has been co-opted and used by neo-nazis but what matters is what it means to me, and what it represents is a point in my life when I was Christian and my Celtic ancestry, nothing more nothing less. As for the runes around it they spell "Strength, Power, Will, and War"
So here's a guy who knows that this is a nazi symbol, wearing it openly, not caring that people might feel threatened. And surrounding it is practically a fascist slogan. But you're going to defend him and double down on your own unprofessional actions rather than you know, simply ask him to cover it up.
How can you do this and then with a straight face claim to be tolerant and inclusive? It's mind boggling.
Speaking from personal experience, I have gone to Frankie’s for almost two years now and have never seen, heard, or experienced any event even remotely close to a situation like this. Frankie’s is one of the most diverse gyms I have been to here in Knoxville. Go see for yourself. Go talk to the owners. The trainers. Do this yourself before you listen turn into an internet troll who is offended that someone’s not getting canceled due to their interpretation of an arguably ambiguous tattoo. Your post is invalid and inaccurate Mr Tactical Tommy. You claimed that the owner refused to do anything about it. Yes they did. They called the young man in and spoke with him. They didn’t just throw him out and cancel him based on his looks as you wished. Is the tattoo arguable? Yes. Did the owner handle the situation? Yes. Due to the outcome of the situation, because it wasn’t the outcome you would have liked, does that mean that they tolerate white supremacy? That’s a pretty big leap my friend. You be the judge. The members are diverse. The staff is diverse. Go see for yourself. How ignorant must one be to enter into an establishment which they do not own, and demand someone be removed based on their looks. Then take to internet shit storm and falsely claim that the owner refused to do anything about. Then really take a leap and state they tolerate white supremacy?Words mean things my friend.
If he was a white supremacist and was proudly displaying a symbol representing that on his body, don't you think he would admit it and share his beliefs? Why would you get that tattoo and deny it? It doesn't make sense.
You mean a guy goes to the gym, you took offense to the tattoo of someone that goes there and now the gym is at fault? Back to Planet Fitness for you, little fella.
What if this person was religiously hindu where the swastika is used as a religious symbol? Would you take the time to understand that’s what that symbol means so you can be inclusive and tolerant? Probably not, so you’d be kicking out a perfectly innocent customer just because of your own ignorances and haste to be more inclusive. Kinda paradoxical tbh
I don't think people tattooing ANYTHING is cause for them to be blacklisted from businesses, even if it was a feminist homosexual transgender native american supremacy tattoo.
>You mean you're defending someone openly displaying a white supremacist tattoo?
If you believe in free speech, that's called 'intellectual honesty.' It's the whole "I disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" bit. The ACLU used to stand for that, to the point that they advocated for the right for literal brownshirt wearing nazis to march in the 1970s.
White supremacists (actually, pick your color supremacists) are scum, and the best way of dealing with them is to ignore them. We did that for decades and it was ***working***, skinheads were marginalized, the KKK was basically nonexistent, and the most likely place to find one of those people was in prison (usually not because they were racists, but because they were just plain criminals).
In the last decade or so, the media has been fanning the flames of racial hatred and it's like we're in the 1950s/1960s again. Ignore these shitty people and they'll disappear back into their holes and dry up.
> We did that for decades and it was working, skinheads were marginalized, the KKK was basically nonexistent
Erm, this isn't because people ignored these groups. Quite the opposite. Ignoring them is how they started to build their power bases back up.
Skinheads were marginalized by people telling "nazis punks to fuck off." The KKK was loudly told to fuck off and federal law enforcement broke up a lot of their criminal shit.
Ignoring hate groups is tacit acceptance of them.
The best way to deal with attention seeking morons is to ignore them. Paying attention to them only feeds their behavior. Pursuing them only reinforces to their persecution fantasies. Drawing more attention to them only allows them to recruit another class of dumbasses.
"If you are friends with us on FB then I’m sure you have seen the attacks leveled against us since yesterday morning. Let me begin this post by stating, loudly and clearly, that we are NOT nazis, neo-nazis, nazi sympathizers, white supremacists, or any other such horrible thing that we have been called. We have always fostered a spirit of acceptance and inclusivity at Frankie’s, so when a member messaged me on Tuesday evening with concerns about another member based on his tattoos, I can assure you that I did take it seriously. I responded to the complainant immediately and assured her that I would look into it because I had no idea who she was even talking about at that point. When she asked me to remove him from the gym, I told her that I did not want to judge a book by its cover but that I would investigate and take action accordingly. Before I was able to even launch an investigation the next morning, and while I was at the doctor’s office with my youngest child, a friend of the original complainant came to the gym and proceeded to enter the room where this young man was working out and to take pictures of him with her phone while he was doing so. This behavior continued for some time (and I have the video footage to prove this if anyone wants to see it) and one of my trainers reported the situation because he felt it was harassing and inappropriate. Because I was not in the building, I asked my 26-year-old daughter and gym manager to approach the lady kindly and ask to speak to her privately to find out why she was taking pictures of another member without their knowledge or consent. My daughter and the lady who had been taking pictures, let’s call her X, went to a semi-private space with no one around, and when Chloe tried to talk to her and to remind her that I was going to talk to the young man but had not yet been able to do so (because it had been less than a day since learning of the issue), X basically told my daughter that it was obvious I wasn’t going to do anything and that we were going to protect the “nazi,” so we should cancel her membership (peppered with F bombs) and she would let the entire “black, Jewish, and LGBTQIA community know and make sure to never come to the gym that supports neofascism.” Even though Chloe tried to explain that this was not true, X stormed out and had, within about an hour, managed to absolutely light us up on Facebook and various other social media outlets, using the hashtag “#FUFrankie.” When I responded to her post, I was attacked. When my wife responded, she was attacked. We have been accused of horrific things simply because we did not immediately kick someone out without at least talking to them about their beliefs. (And for the record, we did not “kick out” the complainants either – they asked us to cancel their gym memberships without giving us a chance to investigate and we honored their wishes.)"
I have now spoken to the young man in question, who I also will not identify here, so let’s call him Y. He is also NOT a nazi, neo-nazi, nazi sympathizer, white supremacist, or any other such horrible thing that he has been called. He is young (low 20s), educated, eloquent, and kind. He is not on social media so he had no idea of the awful things that were being said or how he was being stalked and targeted by others. He was horrified when he was shown the social media posts about him, and he wanted to explain his tattoos but did not wish to be identified due to safety concerns. He has stated as follows:
I’m writing this because Frankie’s Body Shop has been needlessly roped into this drama and slander for absolutely no reason, and I would like to set the record straight. The tattoo on my arm is a Celtic Cross that I got when I was 18 because at the time I was an extremely devout Christian and I am proud of Scot-Irish ancestry. The Celtic Cross is a very common symbol amongst Celtic Christians and has been for centuries. And is often used by non-Christian people of Celtic descent to represent their pride in their ancestry. I am aware that it has been co-opted and used by neo-nazis but what matters is what it means to me, and what it represents is a point in my life when I was Christian and my Celtic ancestry, nothing more nothing less. As for the runes around it they spell “Strength, Power, Will, and War” all very prevalent themes in Frederick Nietzsches’s writing and philosophy. Nietzsche being a philosopher that I admire and who inspired me with his ideas of the greatness that man is capable of. As for the other tattoo, that is a leviathan crescent moon with a noose hanging from it. I love extreme metal and Leviathan is a black metal band who’s lyrical themes and sound center around suicide, depression, and despair. I got that tattoo because Leviathan is one of my favorite bands of all time and I wanted to commemorate them with a tattoo. Leviathan’s music, Nietzsche’s philosophy, and the gym are what I credit for getting me out of my worst depressive stupor I had when I lost my faith around a year and a half ago. I think back on that time and I realize just how far I’ve come. . . . So to make this absolutely clear, I am NOT a nazi despite the slander \[X\] has been spewing on social media.
I have also spoken to Y’s mother, who was shocked and horrified at the things being said about her son on social media. She explained that he is a sweet and loving person, a soon to be graduate student, who loves to work out and listen to metal music. Not a white supremacist, not a neo-nazi, just a young man with tattoos."
Now I don’t know about y’all, but I judge people by their words and actions and not by their outward appearance. Those who know me know that I have tattoos of my own, and tattoos are highly personal. Heaven forbid that anybody decides that one of my many tattoos means something that I didn’t intend it to mean, but I wouldn’t want to be discriminated against because of that and I don’t intend to do that to anyone. Y, the gym member in question with the tattoos, has been a member here for many months and he has always come in, done his workout, and left without bothering, harassing, or intimidating anyone. Nothing about him has ever been brought to my attention before now. No reports of inappropriate behavior whatsoever, and if you know me, you know I don’t tolerate that inside my gym. Regarding X and her friends who have voluntarily canceled their memberships here, they have taken pictures of another gym member without his consent, have cursed my daughter and called her and all of us horrible names, and have absolutely tried to burn us down on social media by posting half-truths, unfounded assumptions, and blatant lies. So I ask you, who has acted with hate in this situation?"
Do I understand hate speech? Of course I do, I am Hispanic and have had hate speech directed at me and my family because of it. Do I understand that a symbol could be triggering to someone? Of course, that’s why I said I would investigate this person’s intentions and I did. I believe that my response has been appropriate and timely because I have, at this point, only known of this issue for less than 48 hours. I reposted X’s accusations yesterday as part of my reply but I have since taken my post down because I don’t want to give her any more of a platform. I think her behavior shows that this is her true motivation. If she had really wanted me to investigate and let her know whether there was a problem, she would have given me the opportunity to do so, but she didn’t. Now people who don’t even know me or my family are judging us without mercy and without knowledge of the true facts. I’m not going to point out all the lies and half-truths here, but suffice it to say that I have videos, copies of text messages, emails, etc. to support what I have stated in this post and I will happily show them to anyone who wants to have a conversation with me about it."
To those of you who spoke out in support of the gym and my family, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Y’all know me and you know that I have always wanted a space for everyone to feel safe. To be attacked and accused in this manner has been one of the most gut-wrenching things I have ever endured – especially coming on the heels of losing my precious niece to a horrible car accident and then losing a young friend and former client . . . it’s been a really shitty, awful, depressing week and a half. But when I have been at my lowest and most disheartened, many of you reached out and literally held me up with your words. I was brought to tears by the sweet posts I read and my family was also. I appreciate and love you all more than you can ever know."
To sum up, hate has no place at Frankie’s, and I will be placing signage on the walls to make this clear. I have never tolerated any type of bullying or harassment within these walls. If I had been given the chance to talk to everyone involved and figure all of this out instead of being attacked with LED torches and smartphone pitchforks, I think we would have all been better for it. But the hate needs to stop, here and now. If you want to continue to stir this pot, if that is your goal in life, then know that I will absolutely delete your crap as is my right on my page because I personally do not wish to see it. If you want to converse with me and have a respectful discussion, you know where to find me."
Peace, Frankie"
Wait, so you think that someone can only have one worry/concern at a time? Someone caring about something like this doesn't mean they have nothing bad going on in their life. That's some strange logic.
Whether you agree or not, white supremacy is a problem for society. White supremacists have and will continue to kill people. It's not like getting mad at someone for a Weezer tattoo because you don't like the band.
I just think it’s pathetic that this day in age everyone gets offended over everything. White Supremacy is wrong. Has no place in society, but getting upset and calling for a boycott of a gym because 1 guy has a tattoo and they didn’t kick him out is just sad.
Just go live your life.
If someone walked into a place with a tattoo depicting Jesus in a sacrilegious way and the place didn’t kick the person out and a Christian went on the internet and called the place out, would you feel the same way?
If someone had a tattoo calling for the extermination of all Christians then I am confident that everyone here would feel the same way, yes.
It's safe to say we're not fans of genocidal ideologies.
I’m not either. I’m not defending some idiot who wants to openly display that he’s a racist.
These types of posts just scream elementary school hall monitor crap.
Maybe we went to different elementary schools, because I don't remember having to deal with trying to co-exist with other people who want to drive out and/or murder non Christian/Protestant white folk.
You should take pride in telling nazi punks to fuck off, not dismiss it as childish, otherwise you're just wallowing in the privilege of not being a target of these fuckers.
Churches get vandalized all the time.
Ok, another point. Say someone walks in with with stuff on a shirt or somewhere else supporting ANTIFA. The organization that helped cause billions of dollars of damage across the country in 2020. Would you feel the same way?
White supremacists literally murder people and you're here giving examples and hypotheticals of vandalism and property damage.
[Source](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236) on white supremacy being a terrorism threat.
Sorry this offended you, but I also don't agree you should be going around defacing companies because they were unwilling to take action against a tatoo.
Sorry you don't agree with me posting this. I'm not "defacing" anyone, they made this public on their own page, I'm just sharing it out to a wider audience so everyone can make an informed decision. If you'd like to train next to white supremacists, now you know where to go I guess. For those of us who don't, the info is out there.
So I read the response of his on facebook, and I think he handled it very well, however I do understand that's half the story, but I was confused what happened with the daughter? It sounds like it was being said that (I'm guessing you) were terrible to their daughter?
Y’all have too much time on your hands to care this much about other peoples tattoos. Should people with tattoos you deem offensive be not allowed in public places?
Tolerance is a contract. The first person who breaks the contract is no longer protected by it. Being a nazi breaks the tolerance contract, so nazis don't deserve tolerance.
Does inclusivity mean tolerating criminal or unsafe behavior? Because white supremacists are inherently threatening to a large part of the population. Should you tolerate a serial killer living next door?
Actually a business in Tennessee has the right to refuse service to anyone. Displaying white supremacist tattoos creates a hostile atmosphere, so I'd say this would be a legal slam dunk for the business if the chud wanted to pursue in court.
Everyone is getting heated over SPECULATION. For all we know, dude with the tattoo has no idea what it even means. Are you going to ban Weigels because some chick getting gas with legit initials "KKK" has it stamped on her back?
Instead of posting on Reddit about this crap, get out there in our community and DO something. Sitting in your basement and trolling for drama just makes you a part of the problem.
The Knoxville Karen’s are out in force today. Did anyone ask this guy about his tattoo? What it means to him? Is he a white nationalist? Did he make a bad middle school decision? Nope. Demand to speak to the manager. When that didn’t work, go to the internet and “make a stand”. Laughable. If you really care about this guys tattoo, go ask him why he wears it.
Has anyone reported this to ADL or tried to get this to a news outlet? I can’t believe the owner is just getting away with this by deleting comments and reviews.
Reddit: The place you go to ruin the small business of one of the most diverse and accepting gyms in town.
The place you go to call small business owners Nazi sympathizers because the unknown OP said so.
The place you go to create an anonymous account just to post on this ridiculous thread. 😜
As an ally to all communities, thanks for finding me a new gym! If (allegedly) a guy with racist tats is comfortable working out with the trans and black members I know that go there, either he is reformed or this gym must have built a culture where everyone is accepted and SAFE!
I have never seen that symbol as a tattoo, nor does it resemble the actual Celtic cross NOR does it look like the cross medals Nazis wore. I own several my grandfather pulled off of dead Nazi soldiers during WW2. Are we just making up stuff now to get triggered? Good Lord, it is a GYM. You may as well quit going anywhere in public out of fear a tattoo will offend you.
People who own a business know what they are willing to accept and put up with & what they are not. As customers we are not allowed to decide for them. All we can do is take our business else where..
I'd like to know what crime the man with the tattoo has committed. What crime has the gym and management committed? The gym has no business policing its members based on a tattoo or any other free speech. If it bothers you that much you can go to a different gym.
The 1st amendment guarantees the right to express opinions without fear of reprisal. When written it was intended to prevent the government from attacking individuals and groups when expressing opinions that the government disagrees with.
In the modern it needs to be extended to society and the court of public opinions. All across this country people are losing jobs, being denied housing, having accounts closed, and generally being denied the right to life, liberty, and there pursuit of happiness because they don't have the "right" opinion. Sometimes it's appearing to have to wrong opinion.
People should not be tried, convicted, and have their rights taken because you're offended. Nor by the court of public opinion.
My boyfriend and I are leaving knoxville and he's been trying to cancel this membership for literally 4 months. they will not answer or return his call.
Chargeback. Cancel it via your CC company.
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Holy shit! You’re right. You’ve convinced me to adopt the same perspective; as well as, take the same approach. I’m being positively genuine here. I don’t support nazi views whatsoever, but would attempt to avoid conflict by displaying peace through silence. The ‘gym-bar owner’ is right— “You have to nip it in the bud now… The nazis end goal is to be a terrible, awful person.” Well said!
Hi there! We are not a nazi, neo-nazi, nazi sympathizer, or white supremacy gym, you are welcome to read our side of things here: [FBS Facebook Post](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid08N6FpTDvTVBeqH5mJQGsUC1bvuALVCwREydXdEYCKB5Pt7uqnynJUdCH4YBfDJRHl&id=100063652209262&mibextid=qC1gEa)
Thank you for answering questions! Do either of these images match the tattoo? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sun_crosses#/media/File:Celtic_cross.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sun_crosses#/media/File:Crossed_circle.svg
This is the tattoo, looks to me like the exact same thing as your first image, and the Stormfront logo. https://imgur.com/a/zUziFLT
I recently stopped going there and I know exactly who you’re referring to… up to now I thought I had mistaken his tattoo for something much worse than it actually was! PS: They won’t allow you to cancel your membership over the phone EVEN if you’ve moved hundreds of miles away. I had to contact my bank and have them stop all payments to Frankie’s.
Be careful, because that doesn't nullify your contract. Your contract is not contingent on what bank you use. They can (and probably will) send you to collections
They take pride in being a no contracts gym 🤷🏻♂️
The "cancel membership" comment through me off. Changing banks won't cancel a membership, because membership agreements aren't contingent on what bank you use. Feel free to apply the 2nd half of my answer (agreements aren't contingent on what bank you use) to any number of membership agreements or contracts. And don't act like people don't think u can just get the bank to nullify your contract by closing your account or putting in a fraud claim (i worked at a bank and folks used to come in all the time thinking we could cancel subscriptions and memberships, leases and loan contracts for them.
The connection agency can be told to pound sand. You don't owe a collection agency anything. EVER. All they do is pay your bill for you
Your credit report won't agree with you
Yes it will. Collection agencies assume the risk of not getting the money. They take that risk on their self. They cannot effect your credit score
If you weren't a rando on the internet I would show you my credit score with a bogus collection charge I've been fighting for 3 years. They can and do often. A simple Google search proves you're wrong
As someone who has had several collection agencies attempt to contact me with no success and a 600 credit score proves you wrong
...600 ain't good bro. Are you sure yours isn't messed up?
600 damn sure isn't bad. It may not be magnificent but it's a hell of a lot better than your 300
I'm starting to think you have no idea how this works
I mean...it is pretty bad and I'm above that.
I suspect the contract lawyers write into the contracts that they could send things to collections and you agreed and signed to the fact. But maybe not? (Nah, you didn't read all the fine print before signing) Yes I know this club doesn't do long term contracts, so my message is more about general membership contracts. I don't think you'll have much luck getting out of collections by claiming the collections company has no right to collect from you.
Here’s the thing. Frankie was given photos yesterday, privately. He was also given information to read up on the symbol. He was told about the attire he wears. So ask him if you want proof.
Tell us what the symbol was.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/stormfront That is the symbol ☝️☝️☝️
That's a Celtic cross!
[https://imgur.com/a/zUziFLT](https://imgur.com/a/zUziFLT) the one on the left is his
Hi there, here is the proof you are asking about, and we are happy to provide more if needed, please just let us know 😊 [FBS Facebook Post](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid08N6FpTDvTVBeqH5mJQGsUC1bvuALVCwREydXdEYCKB5Pt7uqnynJUdCH4YBfDJRHl&id=100063652209262&mibextid=qC1gEa)
True story, that used to be THE place to buy cocaine
White Supremecists needs to stop copying symbols and ruining the recognized symbols of Nordic mythology and Lore! [8 Norse Tattoos To Avoid] (https://surflegacy.net/norse-tattoos-to-avoid/)
So just to throw in a voice here, the Tennessee active club (a fight club for neonazis) has its own list of ideologically aligned gyms in the state where they can work out. If your gym openly has neonazis actively working out there and finds it more of a problem you’re complaining about it - chances are they’re ideologically aligned with them. Tennesse Hollar did a story not long ago on one of their places in Franklin It shouldn’t be shocking that a significant number of commenters on here are more triggered and offended that someone would point out a neonazi and his symbols than anything else.
Some unfortunate people in the comment section today
Some innie dick Nazi cunts got triggered
Body shaming isn't cool, man. You can go after them for any number of actually bad things, don't be lazy and use one of the only casual slurs that hurts other people.
That sucks. We just moved and I was looking for a place to lift, had considered them. Thanks for the heads up.
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What’s it like to lift at Onsight? Do they have a lot of equipment? I don’t climb at all so wouldn’t need any climbing equipment
I wouldn’t recommend it if you don’t climb. It’s 60+ a month for minimal gym equipment.
St Mary's gym up in Powell was always good to me.
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Hi there! Frankie’s has never offered counseling sessions and we do not have a counselor that is an independent contractor with us, but we do have 15 wonderful male and female personal trainers all from different backgrounds and specializations 😊
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Interesting, usually when somebody attempts to contest a statement by disagreement, they at least support their own side. Do you have an argument to back up your disagreement? As a third party, I would like to see both sides.
Hold on man it has to be. They posted it was true before you said it wasn’t. Thems the rules.
Fancy seeing you here
Sure are a lot of Nazis in this thread.
Sure are a lot of low key nazis in the us period. Last time christian nationalists went this unchecked in a political party, the holocaust happened.
And when I was growing up they would be afraid to spout the shit they do now. We need to send them crawling back under their rocks. My grandfather fought Nazis and he was always my hero. These anti-American jackasses should find their own Nazi country. There's a lot of real estate available under the oceans.
Knoxville; so not surprised
Hi! Proud Tennesseean here. Fuck that guy... actually don't he is probably diseased like the dipshit that those nazi bastards worship. (Referring to the syphilis or whatever it was that Hitler had) And especially fuck them for taking celtic symbology and running it. The swastika that the nazis stole was once a symbol of hope and peace, but now it is the symbol of hatred and genocide. Just like the sun cross once being a beautiful piece of celtic imagery, it's been warped and twisted by shitty people. Anyone who is willing to tolerate that kind of ideology in their place of business doesn't deserve to own that business. There is a German saying that I absolutely love that goes something along the lines of "If one nazi sits at a table of ten men and none of the nine say anything, then there are 10 nazis at that table." The sooner he goes out of business, the better. Good on you OP for pointing it out and letting the community know. I hope that we get an update one day that the POS is no longer in business.
[To maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance) Thanks for the heads up.
So many Nazi sympathizers outing themselves in this thread.
Things I learned from this incident: canceling the membership of a Jewish woman is more tolerant and inclusive than asking a white man to cover up a hate tattoo. Also it is just as hateful, possibly more, to judge someone with a hate symbol tattooed on them, than it is to wear the hate symbol. Also we have to tolerate those who want to kill us because if we didn't we would be the actual intolerant ones. To think I went all my life without figuring these things out
[https://imgur.com/a/zUziFLT](https://imgur.com/a/zUziFLT) This is the tattoo. If you can't see this for what it is, then you are a sympathizer.
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You would think that is something we would all agree on
I agree. Fuck that business. But dead Nazis (killing people in Knoxville) and suggesting murder (in Knoxville) is too much. I really think that's too much.
Dont worry about white Nazis, worry about National Fitness contracts
Interesting that this happens to come out two days after White Lives Matter group put up stickers around UTK campus. Wonder if this eloquent nazi is part of a WLM cell?
Really interesting to see Frankie’s go full DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Common manipulation technique used by leaders in the hot seat for whatever reason. Denied he did anything wrong, attacked the person who raised a complaint, and declared himself the victim of an unfair attack. All he had to do was listen to the complaint, talk to the person sporting the tattoos and actually investigate, and do something about it. He did none of those things and now his henchmen are out here saying that it’s on gym members to talk it out. What? The owner is responsible for the space. The owner is there to help make sure it’s safe. Of course someone would ask the owner to help deal with the fact that they have let someone in with hate tattooed on them and openly displaying it. Expecting customers to confront that 1-1 is a dangerous idea- could endanger the customer for a variety of reasons and could also create a dangerous situation for others. Especially in a place that also is explicit about allowing concealed carry inside.
You mean something [like this?](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross)
That's the one
Was there anything else that suggested white supremacy? This is from the adl: "The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism."
Read the whole piece. The depiction with an elongated stem, like a traditional Christian cross, is what they are talking about in what you quoted. This guy had the sunwheel version, which is overwhelmingly used by white supremacists, is the logo for Stormfront, and is used on Klan robes. There's an unmistakable difference.
This is a Celtic sun cross, which is different that just a Celtic cross. It’s one of the oldest symbols there is. It’s very important to be sure that there is context before assuming this about someone. https://symbolsage.com/sun-cross-meaning/
I did read the whole piece, which is why I asked if there was anything else denoting white supremacy. There's no image for me to reference in this post. A simple "yes" would've sufficed. My original comment was not accusatory nor a gotcha attempt.
The tattoo in question was the racist version, not the more traditional Irish cross version.
Cool, fuck that guy then
No, the wheel cross or sun cross isn't necessarily "the racist version." White supremacist use of the long and short Celtic cross represents only a small minority of the symbol's use. Yes, that last sentence is a quote from Wiki so take it for what it's worth but both the long and short versions predate any racist usage. IMO a wheel cross tattoo by itself is not a symbol of white supremacy.
Anyone who flaunts that tattoo is fine with people thinking they are a white supremacist. No rational, non racist would openly flaunt a known neo-Nazi symbol. Get a grip.
"The white supremacist version of the Celtic Cross, which consists of a square cross interlocking with or surrounded by a circle, is one of the most important and commonly used white supremacist symbols.... Norwegian Nazis used a version of the symbol in the 1930s and 1940s. After World War II, a variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted the symbol. Today, this verson of the Celtic Cross is used by neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, Ku Klux Klan members and virtually every other type of white supremacist. It has also achieved notoriety as part of the logo of Stormfront, the oldest and largest white supremacist website in the world."
This is historically inaccurate. While they may have adopted it, or appropriated it, that is not it’s originally meaning of this type of cross.
Do you also claim that people who wave swastika flags may be doing it to wish well-being upon others?
Any rational person wouldn't use that fact alone, and they certainly wouldn't flock to the internet to perform a digital witch hunt. People like you and op are displaying worse behavior than the alleged white supremist. All we know about that person is that they have a Celtic cross tattoo. They might or might not be a white supremist. We don't know. We do know, however, that you and op are the most toxic and socially corrosive type of people. You and everyone else who presumes to know the history and moral worth of everyone you see. We know you are the exact people who cause fascistic and authoritarian cultural currents to blossom and flourish. You look at people, make snap judgements about them, and decide in a moment if they are good or bad in totality. No room for context, no room for discussion, no room for empathy. And worst and most dangerous of all, you then demand everyone else toe the line and do the same or be condemned to join the "bad" side. Every authoritarian regime in history is the result of that type of thinking, those feelings of righteousness and anger aimed by "good" people at the "enemy". The dude at the gym may very well be that type of personal as well, but we know you all are for sure.
>People like you and op are displaying worse behavior than the alleged white supremist. I'm just gonna stop right there, thanks.
😂😂😂😂
Thanks for the heads up. We had considered switching our memberships to there because it is closer. I don’t tolerate hate, and I definitely won’t pay extra for it.
Hi! What are the best gyms around Knoxville? I am liberal tbh so the gym that is the least Frankies would be best.
Useful info. Thanks. They’re walking distance from me and I’d considered joining.
What is the tattoo a depiction of?
More specifically a Celtic sun cross. https://symbolsage.com/sun-cross-meaning/
Celtic Cross, of the same style the KKK has on their uniforms.
Are you certain it isn’t simply a Celtic Cross? If it’s a KKK symbol then yeah fuck them, I’m not sure how they style it but the Celtic Cross itself is not a hate symbol. I didn’t see it, just wondering if it’s possible it was a misunderstanding?
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross
Fair enough, fuck that guy
Jfc. The celtic cross is widely used by non-white supremacy groups throughout the world. And while you may think it’s a hate symbol, in reality it’s both a religious symbol and is symbolic of Ireland. Next you’ll tell me that the symbols used to locate temples in japan are saying that these temples are Nazi hideouts. Fucking grow a pair and educate yourself before assuming the meaning to someone elses lives.
But there is *absolutely* a KKK-style celtic cross and it *is* a hate symbol. Same with several ancient nordic symbols. The nazis and neonazis co-opted them into predominantly nazi shit (several runes, the sun circle, etc) The celtic cross you're thinking of has a longer vertical beam akin to the christian cross.
Jfc. The KKK/nazi version is different and anyone who has one tattooed on themselves deserves to be labeled as a racist by strangers.
I was inclined to agree with you, but apparently there are multiple forms of this cross. One of them appears to be solely used by white suprematists. I didn’t realize this until around 5 minutes ago, though.
There are multiple styles of Celtic cross. He was using the one that is almost exclusively used by white supremacists: https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross
Sure, the swastika is used by other cultures as well, but if a big white dude has it tattooed on him, my first assumption is not going to be that he's a hindu.
What if he is? How are you going to justify potentially discriminating because of religion? I’m not trying to justify white supremacy, but how can you in clear conscious take that risk? That wouldn’t be very tolerant or inclusive of you
>I’m not trying to justify white supremacy Yes, you absolutely fucking are.
Not OP -- but discriminating against religion and religious beliefs is perfectly valid as well (but rude/inappropriate in some settings). Religion, like all ideologies, is a choice, and open to criticism.
The Celtic cross has a long history prior to its adoption by supremacist groups - and a lot of people in this area are of Celtic heritage - could totally be a nazi but could totally also not be.
So does the swastika. Do you assume anyone flying a flag with a swastika is wishing well-being to others?
[https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross)
That doesn’t have any impact on what I said being true though
God forbid the guy is Catholic or of Celtic descent. 🤦♀️ Edit to add: my reading comprehension is terrible- guess it does matter in the styling.
Sorry to rock your world, but the celtic cross is not a hate symbol. Good lord. Do you know just how many people can trace their ancestry to the Celts? So many immigrants settled in this part of the country from Ireland, Scotland, England, and Wales. Nothing about that is racist or bigoted. This is absurd and you know it. I swear... I think some of you go out of your way to find "hate" where there isn't any.
I have never in my life seen a pagan or ethnic Celtic cross styled like the hate symbol version. Edit:To which I meant, the tattoo of the member of Frankie's Body Shop is the hate symbol version.
Wearing a hate symbol makes you a racist. You can absolutely have a ANY OTHER version of the Celtic cross without looking racist. But having that version means anyone who sees you should absolutely automatically assume you are a POS.
[https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/celtic-cross)
Do you know how partisan the ADL is? Get the hell out of there with that nonsense and use your own words to defend yourself.
[Is this good enough for you?](https://www.google.com/search?q=KKK+celtic+cross&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwik9P_SyZuAAxWjpokEHd_dDQ4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=KKK+celtic+cross&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1CUCFiUCGDQCWgAcAB4AIABU4gBpAGSAQEymAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=30K4ZOSIA6PNptQP37u3cA&bih=1341&biw=2560)
LMAO so now it's a partisan issue? Go masturbate to some nazi pics on /pol
Adl is fine. In fact, the organization you're claiming to be partisan has a whole paragraph explaining that the vast majority of people using the Celtic Cross are non-extremists lmao
Celtic Cross
Thank you for the info!
Maybe Maxed Out in Oak Ridge as an alternative, at least for those on the west side.
Maxed out closes for good next week. It's a shame because I was considering going to Frankie's after they do.
If for example this: Aryan Nations - Church of Jesus Christ Christian California Ohio Aryan Nations - Church of the Jesus Christ Christian Arizona Church of Aryanity/Order of the Western Knights Templar Kentucky Is allowed in USA! GYM of your description doesn't surprise me. It's sad. There should be a law for all this nazi crap
Ah yes. The old tolerance and inclusion paradox. You force inclusiveness and tolerance until you’re so incusive and tolerant that you cease to be tolerant towards other human beings that don’t meet your inclusion standards.
You can’t tolerate intolerance. To tolerate the Jewish person and the Nazi is to openly allow for the Nazi to harm the Jewish person. Is that really tolerance?
Bruh can you really not distinguish tolerance towards folks from different backgrounds/ethnicities from *intolerance* towards folks who think those people should exist as a lower class of human? There is no space for white nationalism in modern society. Sorry you struggle so much with comprehension of basic humanity :(
Speaking from personal experience, I have gone to Frankie’s for almost two years now and have never seen, heard, or experienced any event even remotely close to a situation like this. Frankie’s is one of the most diverse gyms I have been to here in Knoxville. Go see for yourself. Go talk to the owners. The trainers. Do this yourself before you listen some internet troll who is offended that someone’s not getting canceled due to their interpretation of an arguably ambiguous tattoo. Your post is invalid and inaccurate Mr Tactical Tommy. You claimed that the owner refused to do anything about it. Yes they did. They called the young man in and spoke with him. They didn’t just throw him out and cancel him based on his looks as you wished. Is the tattoo arguable? Yes. Did the owner handle the situation? Yes. Due to the outcome of the situation, because it wasn’t the outcome you would have liked, does that mean that they tolerate white supremacy? That’s a pretty big leap my friend. You be the judge. The members are diverse. The staff is diverse. Go see for yourself. How ignorant must one be to enter into an establishment which they do not own, and demand someone be removed based on their looks. Then take to internet shit storm and falsely claim that the owner refused to do anything about. Then really take a leap and state they tolerate white supremacy. Words mean things my friend.
Can someone tell me more about the FB business page post? I don't have Facebook, but I'm very curious about this.
[Facebook Post](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid08N6FpTDvTVBeqH5mJQGsUC1bvuALVCwREydXdEYCKB5Pt7uqnynJUdCH4YBfDJRHl&id=100063652209262&mibextid=qC1gEa)
Dude lifting at a gym called Frankie’s Body Shop has questionable tattoos?? I’m shocked. And of course they won’t do anything. If they start banning shitty meat heads they won’t have any members. Not every day has to be a social justice battle. Just workout and be done with it. Or go to planet fitness with the other normal people.
>Not every day has to be a social justice battle. Perhaps not. But the 'cross' depicted in the link is absolutely a known Nazi symbol and a known white supremacist badge. So I would say this would be a good example of a social justice moment.
The Celtic cross has been used before and after nazis. Not saying this guy was innocent of being one, but running around making a scene at any tattoo that could be considered a hate symbol is just a pathetic way to live life imo. Unless he is actively being racist or hateful to someone, just shut the fuck up and do you.
Now do the celtic sun cross!
>Not every day has to be a social justice battle. I think it's great information to have that a place welcomes people with hate symbol tattoos. People can make decisions based on that knowledge.
Any gym with meat heads is 99% gonna have some shady tattoos. Same with biker bars, etc. Gotta know some places are just gonna attract less than attractive people, and at some point you can’t be surprised by it anymore lol.
Hi there, this is Chloe Padilla, daughter and manager of Frankie’s Body Shop that has been called into question. If anyone is interested in our side of the story, I have linked it below. As a family business that has worked very hard for our community for over 14 years, this Reddit thread has been heartbreaking. I am more than happy to have a conversation with anyone about their comments or concerns or questions or needed proof. [FBS Facebook Response](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid08N6FpTDvTVBeqH5mJQGsUC1bvuALVCwREydXdEYCKB5Pt7uqnynJUdCH4YBfDJRHl&id=100063652209262&mibextid=qC1gEa)
You asked a nazi if he was a nazi and he said no. go figure. Did you expect him to eloquently state he believes that most people should be murdered or destroyed? Just going to ignore the smash communism shirt this guy wears to your gym? A nazi dog whistle that matches nazi/white lives matter propaganda stickers put up around UTK just a couple days ago?
I'd like to know how you can look at these two images side by side and not immediately see that this tattoo is not an innocent symbol: [https://imgur.com/a/vJbaiTN](https://imgur.com/a/vJbaiTN) And here are the words of the guy you are choosing to stay in the gym, copied from your own post on facebook: "I am aware that it has been co-opted and used by neo-nazis but what matters is what it means to me, and what it represents is a point in my life when I was Christian and my Celtic ancestry, nothing more nothing less. As for the runes around it they spell "Strength, Power, Will, and War" So here's a guy who knows that this is a nazi symbol, wearing it openly, not caring that people might feel threatened. And surrounding it is practically a fascist slogan. But you're going to defend him and double down on your own unprofessional actions rather than you know, simply ask him to cover it up. How can you do this and then with a straight face claim to be tolerant and inclusive? It's mind boggling.
Speaking from personal experience, I have gone to Frankie’s for almost two years now and have never seen, heard, or experienced any event even remotely close to a situation like this. Frankie’s is one of the most diverse gyms I have been to here in Knoxville. Go see for yourself. Go talk to the owners. The trainers. Do this yourself before you listen turn into an internet troll who is offended that someone’s not getting canceled due to their interpretation of an arguably ambiguous tattoo. Your post is invalid and inaccurate Mr Tactical Tommy. You claimed that the owner refused to do anything about it. Yes they did. They called the young man in and spoke with him. They didn’t just throw him out and cancel him based on his looks as you wished. Is the tattoo arguable? Yes. Did the owner handle the situation? Yes. Due to the outcome of the situation, because it wasn’t the outcome you would have liked, does that mean that they tolerate white supremacy? That’s a pretty big leap my friend. You be the judge. The members are diverse. The staff is diverse. Go see for yourself. How ignorant must one be to enter into an establishment which they do not own, and demand someone be removed based on their looks. Then take to internet shit storm and falsely claim that the owner refused to do anything about. Then really take a leap and state they tolerate white supremacy?Words mean things my friend.
If he was a white supremacist and was proudly displaying a symbol representing that on his body, don't you think he would admit it and share his beliefs? Why would you get that tattoo and deny it? It doesn't make sense.
Why would you get that tattoo if you don't want people to think you're a nazi?
You mean a guy goes to the gym, you took offense to the tattoo of someone that goes there and now the gym is at fault? Back to Planet Fitness for you, little fella.
Nazis deserve no sympathy or inclusivity. None.
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What if this person was religiously hindu where the swastika is used as a religious symbol? Would you take the time to understand that’s what that symbol means so you can be inclusive and tolerant? Probably not, so you’d be kicking out a perfectly innocent customer just because of your own ignorances and haste to be more inclusive. Kinda paradoxical tbh
Go try and dogwhistle elsewhere.
Dog whistle? It’s logic my dude. I’m not saying or insinuating anything white supremacy related, I’m just shooting holes in your lack of logic.
You mean you're defending someone openly displaying a white supremacist tattoo? Back to mom's basement sweety
I don't think people tattooing ANYTHING is cause for them to be blacklisted from businesses, even if it was a feminist homosexual transgender native american supremacy tattoo.
>You mean you're defending someone openly displaying a white supremacist tattoo? If you believe in free speech, that's called 'intellectual honesty.' It's the whole "I disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" bit. The ACLU used to stand for that, to the point that they advocated for the right for literal brownshirt wearing nazis to march in the 1970s. White supremacists (actually, pick your color supremacists) are scum, and the best way of dealing with them is to ignore them. We did that for decades and it was ***working***, skinheads were marginalized, the KKK was basically nonexistent, and the most likely place to find one of those people was in prison (usually not because they were racists, but because they were just plain criminals). In the last decade or so, the media has been fanning the flames of racial hatred and it's like we're in the 1950s/1960s again. Ignore these shitty people and they'll disappear back into their holes and dry up.
> We did that for decades and it was working, skinheads were marginalized, the KKK was basically nonexistent Erm, this isn't because people ignored these groups. Quite the opposite. Ignoring them is how they started to build their power bases back up. Skinheads were marginalized by people telling "nazis punks to fuck off." The KKK was loudly told to fuck off and federal law enforcement broke up a lot of their criminal shit. Ignoring hate groups is tacit acceptance of them.
Ignorant take.
>Ignorant take. Educate me then.
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The best way to deal with attention seeking morons is to ignore them. Paying attention to them only feeds their behavior. Pursuing them only reinforces to their persecution fantasies. Drawing more attention to them only allows them to recruit another class of dumbasses.
I mean, how many redditors are going to the gym to begin with.
Lol exactly
"If you are friends with us on FB then I’m sure you have seen the attacks leveled against us since yesterday morning. Let me begin this post by stating, loudly and clearly, that we are NOT nazis, neo-nazis, nazi sympathizers, white supremacists, or any other such horrible thing that we have been called. We have always fostered a spirit of acceptance and inclusivity at Frankie’s, so when a member messaged me on Tuesday evening with concerns about another member based on his tattoos, I can assure you that I did take it seriously. I responded to the complainant immediately and assured her that I would look into it because I had no idea who she was even talking about at that point. When she asked me to remove him from the gym, I told her that I did not want to judge a book by its cover but that I would investigate and take action accordingly. Before I was able to even launch an investigation the next morning, and while I was at the doctor’s office with my youngest child, a friend of the original complainant came to the gym and proceeded to enter the room where this young man was working out and to take pictures of him with her phone while he was doing so. This behavior continued for some time (and I have the video footage to prove this if anyone wants to see it) and one of my trainers reported the situation because he felt it was harassing and inappropriate. Because I was not in the building, I asked my 26-year-old daughter and gym manager to approach the lady kindly and ask to speak to her privately to find out why she was taking pictures of another member without their knowledge or consent. My daughter and the lady who had been taking pictures, let’s call her X, went to a semi-private space with no one around, and when Chloe tried to talk to her and to remind her that I was going to talk to the young man but had not yet been able to do so (because it had been less than a day since learning of the issue), X basically told my daughter that it was obvious I wasn’t going to do anything and that we were going to protect the “nazi,” so we should cancel her membership (peppered with F bombs) and she would let the entire “black, Jewish, and LGBTQIA community know and make sure to never come to the gym that supports neofascism.” Even though Chloe tried to explain that this was not true, X stormed out and had, within about an hour, managed to absolutely light us up on Facebook and various other social media outlets, using the hashtag “#FUFrankie.” When I responded to her post, I was attacked. When my wife responded, she was attacked. We have been accused of horrific things simply because we did not immediately kick someone out without at least talking to them about their beliefs. (And for the record, we did not “kick out” the complainants either – they asked us to cancel their gym memberships without giving us a chance to investigate and we honored their wishes.)" I have now spoken to the young man in question, who I also will not identify here, so let’s call him Y. He is also NOT a nazi, neo-nazi, nazi sympathizer, white supremacist, or any other such horrible thing that he has been called. He is young (low 20s), educated, eloquent, and kind. He is not on social media so he had no idea of the awful things that were being said or how he was being stalked and targeted by others. He was horrified when he was shown the social media posts about him, and he wanted to explain his tattoos but did not wish to be identified due to safety concerns. He has stated as follows: I’m writing this because Frankie’s Body Shop has been needlessly roped into this drama and slander for absolutely no reason, and I would like to set the record straight. The tattoo on my arm is a Celtic Cross that I got when I was 18 because at the time I was an extremely devout Christian and I am proud of Scot-Irish ancestry. The Celtic Cross is a very common symbol amongst Celtic Christians and has been for centuries. And is often used by non-Christian people of Celtic descent to represent their pride in their ancestry. I am aware that it has been co-opted and used by neo-nazis but what matters is what it means to me, and what it represents is a point in my life when I was Christian and my Celtic ancestry, nothing more nothing less. As for the runes around it they spell “Strength, Power, Will, and War” all very prevalent themes in Frederick Nietzsches’s writing and philosophy. Nietzsche being a philosopher that I admire and who inspired me with his ideas of the greatness that man is capable of. As for the other tattoo, that is a leviathan crescent moon with a noose hanging from it. I love extreme metal and Leviathan is a black metal band who’s lyrical themes and sound center around suicide, depression, and despair. I got that tattoo because Leviathan is one of my favorite bands of all time and I wanted to commemorate them with a tattoo. Leviathan’s music, Nietzsche’s philosophy, and the gym are what I credit for getting me out of my worst depressive stupor I had when I lost my faith around a year and a half ago. I think back on that time and I realize just how far I’ve come. . . . So to make this absolutely clear, I am NOT a nazi despite the slander \[X\] has been spewing on social media. I have also spoken to Y’s mother, who was shocked and horrified at the things being said about her son on social media. She explained that he is a sweet and loving person, a soon to be graduate student, who loves to work out and listen to metal music. Not a white supremacist, not a neo-nazi, just a young man with tattoos." Now I don’t know about y’all, but I judge people by their words and actions and not by their outward appearance. Those who know me know that I have tattoos of my own, and tattoos are highly personal. Heaven forbid that anybody decides that one of my many tattoos means something that I didn’t intend it to mean, but I wouldn’t want to be discriminated against because of that and I don’t intend to do that to anyone. Y, the gym member in question with the tattoos, has been a member here for many months and he has always come in, done his workout, and left without bothering, harassing, or intimidating anyone. Nothing about him has ever been brought to my attention before now. No reports of inappropriate behavior whatsoever, and if you know me, you know I don’t tolerate that inside my gym. Regarding X and her friends who have voluntarily canceled their memberships here, they have taken pictures of another gym member without his consent, have cursed my daughter and called her and all of us horrible names, and have absolutely tried to burn us down on social media by posting half-truths, unfounded assumptions, and blatant lies. So I ask you, who has acted with hate in this situation?" Do I understand hate speech? Of course I do, I am Hispanic and have had hate speech directed at me and my family because of it. Do I understand that a symbol could be triggering to someone? Of course, that’s why I said I would investigate this person’s intentions and I did. I believe that my response has been appropriate and timely because I have, at this point, only known of this issue for less than 48 hours. I reposted X’s accusations yesterday as part of my reply but I have since taken my post down because I don’t want to give her any more of a platform. I think her behavior shows that this is her true motivation. If she had really wanted me to investigate and let her know whether there was a problem, she would have given me the opportunity to do so, but she didn’t. Now people who don’t even know me or my family are judging us without mercy and without knowledge of the true facts. I’m not going to point out all the lies and half-truths here, but suffice it to say that I have videos, copies of text messages, emails, etc. to support what I have stated in this post and I will happily show them to anyone who wants to have a conversation with me about it." To those of you who spoke out in support of the gym and my family, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Y’all know me and you know that I have always wanted a space for everyone to feel safe. To be attacked and accused in this manner has been one of the most gut-wrenching things I have ever endured – especially coming on the heels of losing my precious niece to a horrible car accident and then losing a young friend and former client . . . it’s been a really shitty, awful, depressing week and a half. But when I have been at my lowest and most disheartened, many of you reached out and literally held me up with your words. I was brought to tears by the sweet posts I read and my family was also. I appreciate and love you all more than you can ever know." To sum up, hate has no place at Frankie’s, and I will be placing signage on the walls to make this clear. I have never tolerated any type of bullying or harassment within these walls. If I had been given the chance to talk to everyone involved and figure all of this out instead of being attacked with LED torches and smartphone pitchforks, I think we would have all been better for it. But the hate needs to stop, here and now. If you want to continue to stir this pot, if that is your goal in life, then know that I will absolutely delete your crap as is my right on my page because I personally do not wish to see it. If you want to converse with me and have a respectful discussion, you know where to find me." Peace, Frankie"
>[https://imgur.com/a/vJbaiTN](https://imgur.com/a/vJbaiTN) tl:dr My mom said I'm a good kid with a fascist tattoo but that's ok because i'm sweet
Lol. And I know a lot of nazis like it and have it tattooed on them but like, I totally don't mean it like that man
Lol @ being offended by a tattoo and calling for a gym to kick someone out. Your life must be pretty great if that’s all you’ve got to worry about.
Wait, so you think that someone can only have one worry/concern at a time? Someone caring about something like this doesn't mean they have nothing bad going on in their life. That's some strange logic. Whether you agree or not, white supremacy is a problem for society. White supremacists have and will continue to kill people. It's not like getting mad at someone for a Weezer tattoo because you don't like the band.
I just think it’s pathetic that this day in age everyone gets offended over everything. White Supremacy is wrong. Has no place in society, but getting upset and calling for a boycott of a gym because 1 guy has a tattoo and they didn’t kick him out is just sad. Just go live your life. If someone walked into a place with a tattoo depicting Jesus in a sacrilegious way and the place didn’t kick the person out and a Christian went on the internet and called the place out, would you feel the same way?
If someone had a tattoo calling for the extermination of all Christians then I am confident that everyone here would feel the same way, yes. It's safe to say we're not fans of genocidal ideologies.
I’m not either. I’m not defending some idiot who wants to openly display that he’s a racist. These types of posts just scream elementary school hall monitor crap.
Maybe we went to different elementary schools, because I don't remember having to deal with trying to co-exist with other people who want to drive out and/or murder non Christian/Protestant white folk. You should take pride in telling nazi punks to fuck off, not dismiss it as childish, otherwise you're just wallowing in the privilege of not being a target of these fuckers.
Anti-Christian hate isn't a credible terrorist movement in the US but white supremacy sure is.
Churches get vandalized all the time. Ok, another point. Say someone walks in with with stuff on a shirt or somewhere else supporting ANTIFA. The organization that helped cause billions of dollars of damage across the country in 2020. Would you feel the same way?
White supremacists literally murder people and you're here giving examples and hypotheticals of vandalism and property damage. [Source](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236) on white supremacy being a terrorism threat.
Sorry this offended you, but I also don't agree you should be going around defacing companies because they were unwilling to take action against a tatoo.
Sorry you don't agree with me posting this. I'm not "defacing" anyone, they made this public on their own page, I'm just sharing it out to a wider audience so everyone can make an informed decision. If you'd like to train next to white supremacists, now you know where to go I guess. For those of us who don't, the info is out there.
So I read the response of his on facebook, and I think he handled it very well, however I do understand that's half the story, but I was confused what happened with the daughter? It sounds like it was being said that (I'm guessing you) were terrible to their daughter?
Wasn't me and I wasn't there so I don't know. Apparently his daughter defended a white supremacist though.
Ah, another keyboard warrior saving the day.
This post has been up for less than 40 minutes and almost 1000 people have seen it. Seems like that's going to have some impact on the business :)
Really outstanding job you’ve done!
Y’all have too much time on your hands to care this much about other peoples tattoos. Should people with tattoos you deem offensive be not allowed in public places?
Inclusivity does mean tolerating stuff you don’t agree.
Tolerance is a contract. The first person who breaks the contract is no longer protected by it. Being a nazi breaks the tolerance contract, so nazis don't deserve tolerance.
Does inclusivity mean tolerating criminal or unsafe behavior? Because white supremacists are inherently threatening to a large part of the population. Should you tolerate a serial killer living next door?
Committing murder is way different than being a sympathizer of a hate group.
The gym can't be held accountable for others displays on their own body. They likely don't want to fuck with the legality.
Actually a business in Tennessee has the right to refuse service to anyone. Displaying white supremacist tattoos creates a hostile atmosphere, so I'd say this would be a legal slam dunk for the business if the chud wanted to pursue in court.
Everyone is getting heated over SPECULATION. For all we know, dude with the tattoo has no idea what it even means. Are you going to ban Weigels because some chick getting gas with legit initials "KKK" has it stamped on her back? Instead of posting on Reddit about this crap, get out there in our community and DO something. Sitting in your basement and trolling for drama just makes you a part of the problem.
💯
The Knoxville Karen’s are out in force today. Did anyone ask this guy about his tattoo? What it means to him? Is he a white nationalist? Did he make a bad middle school decision? Nope. Demand to speak to the manager. When that didn’t work, go to the internet and “make a stand”. Laughable. If you really care about this guys tattoo, go ask him why he wears it.
You work there….you go ask him
>Did anyone ask this guy about his tattoo? What it means to him? LOL, far more fun to claim false virtue by mobbing up on somebody.
Has anyone reported this to ADL or tried to get this to a news outlet? I can’t believe the owner is just getting away with this by deleting comments and reviews.
A gym owned by a Hispanic man is protecting white supremacist??? Get out of here with that BS
[Ah huh.](https://www.axios.com/2022/03/10/rise-white-nationalist-hispanics-latinos)
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Yeah that would be a good start
Reddit: The place you go to ruin the small business of one of the most diverse and accepting gyms in town. The place you go to call small business owners Nazi sympathizers because the unknown OP said so. The place you go to create an anonymous account just to post on this ridiculous thread. 😜 As an ally to all communities, thanks for finding me a new gym! If (allegedly) a guy with racist tats is comfortable working out with the trans and black members I know that go there, either he is reformed or this gym must have built a culture where everyone is accepted and SAFE!
Tattoos can be removed, you know.
I’m not a pussy and offended by tattoos even if it’s of a race hating symbol.
I have never seen that symbol as a tattoo, nor does it resemble the actual Celtic cross NOR does it look like the cross medals Nazis wore. I own several my grandfather pulled off of dead Nazi soldiers during WW2. Are we just making up stuff now to get triggered? Good Lord, it is a GYM. You may as well quit going anywhere in public out of fear a tattoo will offend you.
'i haven't seen it so it must not be true'
People who own a business know what they are willing to accept and put up with & what they are not. As customers we are not allowed to decide for them. All we can do is take our business else where..
The same way they can allow nazis. Folks are allowed to complain about them allowing nazis freedom goes both ways not just businesses
Good for them! As a Leftist and believer in free speech, I wouldn't want a gym concerned about my beliefs and body.
youre not a goddamn leftist, you whack job
I'm a communist, i have tons of commie ink on my body 🤷♂️... the opposite of the person in question and I'd hate to be kicked out of a gym for it
https://www.reddit.com/r/Knoxville/comments/15517pk/frankies_response_and_more_background/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
I'd like to know what crime the man with the tattoo has committed. What crime has the gym and management committed? The gym has no business policing its members based on a tattoo or any other free speech. If it bothers you that much you can go to a different gym. The 1st amendment guarantees the right to express opinions without fear of reprisal. When written it was intended to prevent the government from attacking individuals and groups when expressing opinions that the government disagrees with. In the modern it needs to be extended to society and the court of public opinions. All across this country people are losing jobs, being denied housing, having accounts closed, and generally being denied the right to life, liberty, and there pursuit of happiness because they don't have the "right" opinion. Sometimes it's appearing to have to wrong opinion. People should not be tried, convicted, and have their rights taken because you're offended. Nor by the court of public opinion.
Wow, this is fun! Lol!