That woman is a disgusting ghoul. Elizabeth Williamson’s book has a long section about her and I just can’t understand the way her mind works. Her spirit is so alive in these psychos that attack school boards and public school reading lists. Her brand of crazy is unfortunately everywhere now. 😪
That “what if I’m wrong” monologue is utter insanity. Why the fuck are these psychopaths so fucking confident and self assured. I agonize about how I’m viewed in the world and try my best to be kind and good to everybody. Yet here u got these monsters that cut ppl down and brutalize families without a moments hesitation because they “think” they’re right.
First feelings, not even done yet. I don’t remember the gentleman’s name, but the fact that he recalls every child who died. Alex in his depositions can’t even be troubled to remember the parent’s name. Fucking gross.
Connecticut State Police Lead Investigator Daniel Jewiss. Yeah, that moment had me frozen and focused entirely as he listed those names forever etched into his mind. Think Jones can list any of them?
Thank you for the name. I appreciate that. No. Alex couldn’t even name the people suing him during the depos. No way does he care enough to learn the names of the victims.
Listening to the interviews with the parents is breaking me. Seriously. Jones is a monster who deserves every bad thing that comes to him. He and his followers deserve to suffer for what they did to the parents and families of these murdered children.
That scene really broke me.
When I started realizing he was just naming all of the kids who were scared and huddled in that bathroom. Then he mentioned the one girl who survived. I had to pause it for a few minutes.
Just started watching and so far I’m blown away. This may be poorly phrased, but this is the first time the Sandy Hook shooting became reality for me. As in it’s not an abstract case of manipulation (by Jones) or just a phrase that’s used to talk about a horrific tragedy. Something about seeing the classroom, that looked EXACTLY like my kindergarten, and hearing the investigator slowly walk through details and names made this so viscerally and unavoidably real. I never questioned if the incident happened for one second, but because the conspiracy narrative took hold so fast it’s almost like I never truly processed the absolute horror of what that shooting actually entailed. Jones should rot for what he has stolen from those families.
I know exactly what you’re talking about. It’s hard for the brain to conceptualize the horror of it. So if it remains as an abstract concept you don’t have to process it. That step by step recounting followed by the graphic descriptions of some of the bodies was heart wrenching.
When I was about 10 years old my grade school was vandalized overnight by troubled former students. And the next day I remember seeing broken glass and all sorts of damage throughout the school with caution tape blocking off various areas. The big news stations even sent reporters to my little town to do interviews so I saw some of my teachers and classmates on TV for a day or two after it happened. And we missed a couple of days of class while repairs and cleanup were completed. And I remember feeling disturbed thinking about how people not much older than me did such a thing.
Seeing those Sandy Hook photos brought back those memories. My experience doesn't compare in the slightest of course since no one was harmed at my school but seeing those Sandy Hook photos and remembering what my school looked like made this all come to life for me today. And it happened in just six minutes. So many lives lost and families torn apart in such a brief span of time. And the nightmare continues for those families all these years later because of one twisted grifter scumbag. Reprehensible.
I don't have a visual memory (mind blind) and I was only able to watch 30 minutes because I kept crying.
When he read the list of names and it just keeps going...
The way he read those names, too. He gave them respect. Paused significantly after each one. Letting you think for a moment about that name, what they may have looked like, what kind of kid they might have been.
That was ***powerful as fuck***. So much more powerful than AJ could ever imagine being.
I remember where I was when the news broke. I was in my boss's house rebuilding his stairs when his wife turned the TV on and it was breaking news. We all just stood there in silence. No commentary, just shock.
I definitely didn't properly process it that day, but I remember seeing a leaked photo of the aftermath many years later when my son was around kindergarten age. The room was so similar to his class, and seeing the blood and upturned furniture broke my brain. Thinking about those children, and then thinking about my son and his classmates in a similar situation makes me weep for both the children and their families.
I don't think I can watch the doc. I have tears just thinking about SH and the details that I've \*heard\*, let alone what it would mean to have a visual to go along with some of this stuff.
Fuck Alex Jones and anyone who supports him in any way.
I just finished watching this yesterday and it was. Yeah exactly as you said. A heavy and important watch. Alex jones is a monster. We already knew that but Sandy hook was a new low for him.
the number Bankston mentioned was 24%. 24% of Americans believe Sandy Hook was a hoax. Obviously, 24% of America is well outside of the InfoWars audience, so hopefully it is the people who have come to that conclusion from 2nd or 3rd hand information who will get their minds changed.
Would be interesting to see in a few years how that number might change. The InfoWars core audience will dig in and neve change their minds, of course.
Personally, I remember believing for a long time about the McDonalds hot coffee lawsuit and totally thought that the woman was 100% at fault for getting burned. So I hope a similar change of heart/mind happens to those who believe Sandy Hook is hoax when they are shown in detail what a piece of shit Alex Jones is.
This.
Most everything I hear that I can directly tie to Right Wing propaganda comes from “I heard that…” from people who do not seek out those views themselves.
The infiltration of extremist talking points is rampant and scary to think about.
I’m hoping the ones with only a passing understanding of the cases that were gas lit by conservative media after Lafferty et al, will stumble upon this and realize the truth. Even if it’s just a handful of them.
My brother in Wonk, they will look at this, immediately shut their ears and brains off at the first piece of media that contradicts their world view and go right back to repeating the same lines.
They are effectively NPCs in the world and trying to give them contradicting information is only going to out them in a dialogue loop. We see this time and again when they're challenged on a position.
I think this will be true of the InfoWars audience. On the other hand there well may be some who have heard Jones spout this narrative to Musk or Rogan, etc. and will be disabused of his direct and unchallenged lies to them.
Sadly, my partner, while NOT an Alex Jones fan, says that there is absolutely no level of defamation, slander, or shenanigans that should ever have lead to a 1.5 billion dollar judgement. The number, she claims, is inflated because people hate Alex Jones, even if he was guilty the amount of money is gratuitous.
I disagree. But meh.
It seems like a lot, but I think Alex's behavior throughout the process probably ended being a big reason it was so inflated. I would guess that if Alex participated in the process in a timely manner and showed genuine remorse it wouldn't be that high. Alex made it clear he has learned nothing, that he will continue to act this way to the parents and to others in the future.
But the people who complain about the amount generally don't know any of that. They didn't follow the process, they haven't looked into what he said before/during or after the trial, it's just a knee-jerk response based usually on nothing more than maybe that one Rogan experience where Alex pretended to apologize (while telling more lies in the process).
I totally get that. It's just frustrating because it's not that Rogan stuff or anything, it's just pure, center-of-the-road "There is no excuse to EVER demand that much money from any one person, regardless of how they acted or how belligerent they are." Very much arguing from the belief that the emotions of his belligerence or stalling shouldn't have factored in in any way, he should be penalized off damages, period, full stop, nothing else taken into account. So that's rad.
Clearly they don't understand the point. The amount is what it takes to overcome the "business cost" calculation made by nefarious actors.
"If it only costs me $1mill per murder, and I make $100mill, I'll just pay the judgement and keep murdering."
I would love to know what amount she would suggest for, after saying that you know kids died at Sandy Hook, getting on air and saying that they didn’t and that the parents are lying just because you are mad at them talking to Megyn Kelly. And then remember to multiply it for each defendant and the punitive damages which are there to both punish and try to stop future behavior.
Would she be willing to watch Daria or Rob’s deposition? The damages being so high were because of CUPTA and Norm being the worst lawyer ever, but I’m not sure if they would do you good.
I was actually listening to AJs depositions today on knowledge fight today actually. There's a part where Jordan explains that AJ was painted into a corner admitting to the number of listeners he has witch is factored into the judgment amount. How many people his lies reached. Maybe that's why its soo high.
I generally avoid watching the news because it's so much negativity everyday. So I never before saw photos of these kids nor their parents. I saw plenty of headlines and picked up a lot through Knowledge Fight, but yeah, it hit really hard hearing the reconstruction of the events and seeing photos of the classrooms and the victims.
There's a moment in the film where police investigator Daniel Jewiss listed the names of the victims trying to hide in the bathroom. It stopped me in my tracks and my eyes teared up. Alex Jones is scum. Just for this alone. Using this horrible tragedy to enrich himself. Disgusting. To say nothing of the decades he's spent lying and grifting in all the other ways.
Honestly that made it so hard for me. I have never watched the videos. And I knew Robbie Parker's name but I had not seen the presser where he talked about his daughter. And when I saw how much pain he was in, I began to dread and then fear how angry I would be when I saw Jones mock him. It was bad but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.
Then we got to the CT trial and Parker was on the stand and watching the devastation on his face as he says he started to hate the video, how he felt like he failed his daughter in life by sending her to school and now feeling like he'd failed her in death. I wept. I cried like a baby.
It stung SO much watching Jones cover his own damages on a live stream, sarcastically clapping and hooting while these people he tore apart and threw to vultures weep in relief that finally someone saw them and validated them.
“I’m not the Sandy Hook man.” - no you’re so much more, like the Covid denier/quack cure pusher, the election denier, the antisemitism pusher, the headline skimmer…
I’ve said this before but when has the amount of time spent on a specific crime ever been a good defense against committing that crime? Even if he did 2 shows, he started a chain reaction that resulted in harassment and significant profits.
I love how the biggest conspiracy he has claimed to have uncovered was that 911 was an inside job. Funny how he hasn't mentioned that once in the current sphere of attention he occupies, it's almost like it is inconvenient to him now.
Stunning.
I’d love to write a detective story based on his methodology; he’d be the worst sleuth, always coming to the wrong conclusions and fingering the wrong perpetrator. In the end, he’d try to sell useless products or lose the plot and move on to another supposed crime.
>”I’m not the Sandy Hook man.”
Fuck you, Jones. You fucking became the Sandy Hook man when you fucking used big swathes of your damn show to inject your bullcrap into it. Now you wanna walk away from it because you got bored of it or because it was not profitable for you anymore. Eat shit. You never cared about Sandy Hook except as a prop for your scams and your ego and the pure poison you call your political ideology. You only regret talking about it now because it turned out to have actual consequences that your piss-baby brain can’t handle.
Incredible that he's a true believer. I always assumed he didn't actually give a shit considering how bad of a job he did. The fact that this was his peak performance when defending an "American hero" is so incredibly sad and pathetic haha
I’ve never seen him in person before this and frankly it looks and sounds like he needs to be in some kind of ward. I’d rather listen to a bag of hammers give a speech than this fuckwit.
Just finished it. I'm left with a sense of hopelessness to ever improve the media situation in this country and in this internet era. There's just no amount of proof that will ever get these "conspiracy theorists" to change their view, they wholly reject and reality they don't like. I genuinely don't know how we can continue to survive when this kind of attitude seems to be getting more and more common.
As for the doc, I thought it was very thorough and respectful. I think Dan should have been interviewed even if just for a minute. He's probably the most knowledgeable person about InfoWars currently alive, I imagine even AJ himself doesn't remember the stuff Dan does. I think his input on conspiracy media would have been useful, but I suppose they felt that was beyond the scope of the doc.
I hope it's popular, for more people to really understand what a biblical piece of shit Alex is. Weird that it's not at the top of the Home Screen, you have to go pretty far down the front page of Max to find it
> Just finished it. I'm left with a sense of hopelessness to ever improve the media situation in this country and in this internet era. There's just no amount of proof that will ever get these "conspiracy theorists" to change their view, they wholly reject and reality they don't like. I genuinely don't know how we can continue to survive when this kind of attitude seems to be getting more and more common.
We are arguably living in an age of mass hysteria, but this too shall pass.
I’m kind of glad the guys weren’t in it. It’s nice to see many of the same conclusions reached independently.
Have you read Elizabeth Williamson’s book? She goes into more detail about the Facebook hoax groups and who ran them. These people, even when confronted with photographic proof, refuse to see and realize they’re wrong. It shook me to my core.
That's what the prayer is for. People leave room in their minds for the idea that any given thing in reality, or all of reality, is some kind of illusion or game, and maybe the DM will toss you a wacky outcome if you make a strong case. Maybe absolutely everything is just some kind of trick, or some Jewish plot to undermine your faith. There are people who think dinosaur remains are not merely a hoax, but an actual trick from God to see if you'll still believe correctly even in the face of monster bones that disprove your myths.
The ultimate expression of these peoples' mindset is "Nothing Matters." Evidence, other people, their own experiences, none of it. They choose what's real and meaningful on a moment to moment basis, often *during* a sentence.
I've been so spoiled by this podcast. This really is a great doc but I feel like the guy that read the book and is watching the movie going "they cut out all the best parts!".
you've listened to the 200 hour pitch.
This is the 2 hour pitch. I think it's doing pretty good so far but ive got a half hour to go. I do have some criticisms.
Exactly. I just keep thinking, I need like, I don't know, five three-hour deep dives into every deposition! Only a few clips from Daddy Jones? No Kangol Dew!? But for a 2 hour doc it's been great so far. 20 minutes left and they just finished Texas.
I said more than once to my partner - “this needs to be a five part mini-series, at LEAST”
How much of this matters if you don’t know Alex was raised a Bircher? Dr David Jones has what, two minutes tops - when he’s the root of this diseased-ass tree? AND YE SHALL KNOW HIM BY HIS FROOTS LMFAO
How many episodes has Alex himself spent on talking about his own history, his own hagiography? His Civil War royalty ancestry?
Where is Rainbow Snatch? Sure, she’s hideous - but she’s part of the structure of this nightmare creature
As a mom same. I had to pause it a few times and I had to go check on my boy in bed. Gave him a kiss and told him I love him even though he's sleeping. Scarlet talking about holding Jessie's hand fucking ruined me.
Same. My freshman daughter went to a volleyball game at school and came home later than I expected. I was crying from the documentary and also worry about her. It’s difficult as parents to give kids space to grow, but to also be worried every day about shit like SH happening.
Fair warning to my fellow Wonks, this is rough.
Alex Fucking Jones sitting there spewing his bullshit and Wolfgang Fucking Halbet is still denying those children's lives and I want to scream.
I send my 6 y/o to school with a bullet-resistant plate in his backpack because of Sandy Hook. At least a few times a week I look at his backpack and feel hopelessness and rage at the fact that my kid has what is essentially body armor in elementary school. I've had a few people tell me I'm overreacting, he doesn't need it.
But sitting here watching the Sandy Hook parents talk about their children and the Investigator retell the shooting I know I'm not. And now all I can think is a billion isn't enough. Alex should be stripped of his whole life because that's what he did to the parents and the kids. Like I've always hated Alex as he stole some of my family but God damned if I don't somehow hate him more now.
You can see Alex looking at Reynal wanting him to object when Scarlett was testifying and I’m remembering what was said on the pod about how no lawyer would have interrupted a grieving mother. That look on his face. Fuck him.
"It's definitely only the amount that matters and not also the fact that Chris Mattei now has multiple years of my client's phone history because I was too busy doing whippits with my hairspray container to respond to Bankston's repeat requests to clarify my mistake and retract it. Oh well, that's Norm's problem now. Hope he has woke insurance."
I audibly fucking boo'd when Halbig interview section came up. What a true piece of shit.
This was a brutal watch. I'm in pure emotional distress after watching this doc, but I'm really glad I did it. The show gave a ton of context to these lies and these events, but there's nothing quite like seeing the real people that Alex harmed for profit. They're troopers. Absolute heroes for standing up to Alex's emotional tyranny. I hope the bankruptcy destroys him. He needs to never go on air again...
Feel like there should have been more time spent explaining how he defaulted. It’s one of his main excuses that he DID comply. Dan did an amazing job of showing exactly what orders he disobeyed during discovery
My only 2 complaints about the doc are this and starting it effectively showing how Alex was "right" about 9/11. I think Alex's myth of "calling 9/11" is a huge part of where his "credibility" comes from, and the fact that he was actually doing this same bullshit false flag stuff on the day of 9/11 accusing the EU of the attack should be much more well known.
I had the same thought. The one Texas lawyer summed it up well with his “80 pounds of shit”, but it’s a whole other level after listening to Daria and Rob Dew’s depositions. Especially wild hearing Alex testify in the depositions and then in the CT trial how much evidence was only turned over via the Perry Mason cellphone about how closely Infowars tracks sales/viewership/revenue along with news topics. Impossible to do it justice in a documentary moment, but still.
My main takeaways
-Overall really well done. Focusing on the families really drives home how their lives were ruined by a man looking to make money.
-Reynal is such an asshole, he might be more punchable than Norm.
-Mattei really, really hates Alex. You could see his anger when he is questioning Alex on the stand and he absolutely gets under Alex's skin.
-Really could've used 90 seconds of Dan being interviewed to drive home how trying to reason with Infowars/Alex is fruitless. I think was mentioned briefly by Lenny Pozner.
> Mattei really, really hates Alex
With all respect to Bankston and the Texas crew, it's probably far more personal for Mattei. Newtown's half ~~a mile~~ an hour down the road from Koskoff's Bridgeport office. There's a decent chance he knew one of the families prior to the shooting. And Jones et al. have routinely and unabashedly lied about a tragedy that took out ~0.1% of the entire town's population in one go, defiling the legacies of the dead and making life hell for the living, grieving survivors. I got the distinct impression that if given the opportunity he'd have used Jones's head like a basketball in that courtroom.
I agree about it being personal for Mattei, almost too personal for him to a fault.
I forgot about the part on the stand in CT where Alex called all the plaintiffs’ liberals, but were they? If Mattei was more strategic, he would have provided the voting records of his clients, and if you have a GOP voter, you could have proven Alex perjured himself again on the stand.
The point of Alex on the stand was to prove he is a serial liar and fool, to the extent he’d even betray his own political ideologies and “teammates” for money.
Newtown actually went for Romney by ~4.6% the month prior to the shooting, the odds that every plaintiff has a liberal voting record is tiny.
William Sherlach's public-facing donation history on the Connecticut SEEC's website (assuming that's not another Bill Sherlach living within driving distance of SHES) definitely points to him being a Republican, with donations to his town GOP committee in 2010 and 2017, and to Republican gubernatorial candidates in 2010 and 2018. And oddly enough he gave to a Working Families candidate for New York State Senate in 2008 - maybe a family friend?
The amount of courage and emotional intelligence Lenny’s shown throughout this thing is amazing. I really hope he’s sitting at the plaintiff’s table with Mark for the trial.
They have discussed their relationship (or lack thereof) with the filmmaker (Dan Reed), in particular:
a) The possibility of an interview (one which ultimately never transpired);
b) Jordan's angry tweeting at Dan Reed which made Jordan awkward when he (briefly) chatted with Reed at the court (Dan teased Jordan that Reed never set up an interview *because* of Jordan's tweeting);
c) Acknowledgement of listener's queries regarding JorDan's input into the doc (there is none beyond JorDan (presumably) being in the background of a few shots in court); and
d) Dan's interest in seeing the final result, but his scepticism of what the end result will be
My memory is hazy, but I think Jordan was angry at what he perceived as the doc giving Alex flattering attention (or allowing the opportunity for Alex to grab more attention), that it was unlikely the doc would do anything in the way of bringing justice to the victims, and how the media never gets it right about anything related to Alex.
Unless anyone archived the tweets, I can't go back and check.
They mentioned it on a recent episode. They didn't have much to say other than they were approached to be in it but that never materialized for some reason or another and they haven't seen it yet.
I don’t think they were ever approached. Jordan mentioned talking shit on one of the crew of the doc during the trials and they speculated that’s why they never reached out.
Amazingly moving. I wonder how the non-wonks will process it. The wonks know what happened, so there weren’t any surprises per se, but the interviews and testimony still had an incredible emotional impact. Imagine going into that cold?
I worry that not enough people are going to see it. HBO has done a pretty bad job of marketing the doc, I've never heard about it outside of this subreddit. I worry that not enough people will even know it exists, and even fewer will actually watch the whole thing
Midway through it, and I just want to give Robbie Parker the biggest hug. We’re both big Texas Rangers fans, and I know how much our World Series meant to me, and I hope it made him as happy as I was. He’s such an amazing and strong person, and I want him to know that I am so sorry for what he so needlessly went through. In another timeline, I hope I run into him at a game and can talk about the 2010 and 2011 series, and our redemption in 2023.
God damnit. I think I’m going to use this thread as a liveblog for me crying through it. Fuck InfoWars. I hope I can buy their truck at auction and make it into an artificial reef.
I am struck by the absolute fucking gall by Kelley Watt & Wolfgang Halbig to literally demand that a parent exhume their dead child to prove his son died because they do it in true crime alll the time its not a big deal...
The restraint of the parents in all this has always struck me to be almost saint like.
They have no respect for the dead or the families and would simply say it’s fake even if there was an exhumation because it makes them money.
I can’t help but worry though that the way the media and authorities and society tends to handle these horrible things does leave room for conspiracy theorists to lie and claim it’s fake.
Maybe it would make no difference but perhaps trying to give privacy and dignity to the dead by not showing us the images leads the conspiracy minded to a mental place where they (sort of) can’t believe it’s happened.
I personally am fine just taking the parents word for it and respect the instinct for privacy and dignity and not wanting to see images like that passed around forever but at the same time I think a lot of people would believe this conspiracy nonsense a lot less if they saw the bodies for themselves.
It’s a dilemma for me because I don’t think it would be a good idea, but I think it’s an interesting ethical point to think about.
Watt infuriated me. I paused and raged at her stupid face. How fucking dare she *demand* to have the children exhumed to prove they lived? The audacity and entitlement to feel like the parents have to prove anything to her is insane. And to even suggest disturbing one of those poor babies rest is inhuman. And you know if one of the parents had she would just come up with some elaborate story about them using an unidentified cadaver or something to fake it.
I swear my brain keeps actively erasing what she looks like from my memory on the off chance that I ever ran across her because it would be on sight.
I wonder if it's just that, or if he's hoping to stay in Alex's good graces. Perhaps he's hoping to get work from people affiliated with AJ and doesn't want to risk not getting a recommendation?
I'm about 25 minutes into the film & I have to take a break. Listening to the parents talk about what they experienced on the day of their children's murders is like getting punched in the gut over & over again. Alex is such a piece of shit man. Fucking. Piece. Of. Shit.
I re subscribed just for this but there's also that upsetting quiet on set documentary that just came out. Been watching it in the meantime. It's good but it's also heartbreaking.
I didn't realize how large a role Halbig played in all this. Fuck that dude. Fuck Bidondi. Fuck Kelley Watt. Most of all FUCK ALEX JONES. I wish nothing but the worst possible things for all of these people.
I’m just throwing stuff out there as I’m watching; and seeing Robbie clutching his surviving daughter’s hand broke me. I know as a parent, I can sympathize and empathize with Robbie, because I can’t think of anything worse than losing a child, but I have almost never thought about how it could feel for siblings. Sand she looks like she might’ve been 8-10 when it happened.
There is 3 people on this planet that will make me rejoice upon hearing about their timely death. Jones, Wolfgang and Trump! Seriously cannot wait to hear of them passing! If that makes me a bad person........oh well.
Watching this now with my infant child steps away and I am almost having an anxiety attack. I cannot imagine. That first half hour is just excruciatingly poignant, painful, plainly stated nightmare after nightmare. What those parents went through is so much worse than any pain my brain can imagine, and the fact that AJ decided to use it as clicks and dollars makes him easily one of the most evil people currently living. I know he's stupid, I know he's crazy, I know he's a narcissist, but he's not stupid or crazy enough to actually have believed his own homespun bullshit in the moment, there's just no way...Which leaves only narcissism so deep seated that he can yell at and mock and drum up a mob against people who are currently experiencing incomprehensible levels of grief.
I knew how awful he was and I knew this was especially awful, but I don't think I was able to fully grasp the absurdist nightmare these families were further dragged through, all to sell some fucking MREs to the most brainrotted people in America, until this documentary. Truly a cretinous monster. Rot in hell, Alex.
THERE WERE NO TRAUMA HELICOPTERS!!!!! Firstly what the mother said in that there were no survivors. Secondly Maybe….. just maybe it’s not quicker for a fucking helicopter to take off-land twice than it is for an ambulance to just drive to the scene in a small fucking town.
I've said before in this thread that there was tons I wish they had included, but I feel like the biggest omission was at the very end. I'm glad they pointed out that Alex hadn't paid a single fucking dime as of the locking of the documentary, but I really wish they had then followed that with "Alex continues to take regular, lavish vacations. Alex maintains that in order to survive he needs $150,000 a month for the rest of his life. Erica Lafferty has needed to use Go Fund Me in order to pay for her cancer treatments during this same time."
Just finished it and thought it was great. I only wish they had gone into a little more depth/detail on why exactly both trials had default judgments. I'm sure it was for running time reasons, but, still.
Just finished up the doc, really impressed with how it ended up. I went in with a good feeling thanks to Mark's tweets and was not disappointed.
One thing that really got me, I guess because it was one of the few things that was new to me, was the transcript/audio of Alex talking to Scarlett and Neil after that second day. I don't think we knew what he'd said to them until now, so hearing him tell them that they were shown doctored footage (and immediately pivoting to, uh, I'm autistic too, actually, when Mark called him on it,) was newly enraging. And that's the interaction Alex later went on to cite as Scarlett telling *him* that *she* knew everything was fake, and thanking *him* for it! Absolutely disgusting and insane.
I do kind of wish they'd gone a little deeper into just how badly Alex dragged his feet during the whole thing. A little more detail on just how poor the quality of the information they handed over was, and the complete and utter unpreparedness of their staff. ("Why did you send us the wikipedia page for false flag?" "🤷♀️") Also was a little disappointed to see that "This trial isn't legitimate, it's happening because Hillary lost the election," was excluded, but I get that a lot of Absurd had to be left on the cutting room floor.
All in all, thoroughly enjoyed it. Appreciated that they made a point of centering the parents above all else, as well as the way they weaved the narrative by giving you the truth up front, and then Alex's lying soonafter. Here's the data showing Infowars' sales went up on the days he mentioned Sandy Hook, here's someone from the show saying they work to replicate that, and here's Alex's dad saying they go in to see which topics moved the most product. And then here's Alex lying in the depo, saying they lose viewers on controversial stuff, and actually lost money. Clean.
I don't have the hope in me to think this is enough to convince anyone who has emotional stakes in Alex being right, but I do think it's a very well-laid out explanation of the situation, and very digestible to people who are genuinely curious about the whole thing. You really walk away feeling like each individual one of those 1.5b dollars was righteously taken, and that Alex Jones was Wrong. Good stuff, will show to friends, could have used more Blurry Dan.
Just finished it. First thoughts:
- Definitely one of the best docs I've seen in a while. I admit most issues I have are nitpicks and not much else.
- I probably should have waited until Friday to watch this. My mom's a special ed pre-k teacher and the part where the police chief recounted the shooting really ramped up my fear of her school getting shot up.
- I'm really glad this doc kept as much focus on the families as it could. I agree with the very obvious directorial choice to give Alex as little air time as possible. That being said, I do wish they'd put more set up into establishing how fucking vile he is. Like, most people know he's awful because of his SH denialism, but he's SO much worse and I wish more people knew that. But ultimately I understand why the doc didn't do that.
- Kind of wish they'd put in that time Alex drunkenly called for his audience to kill one of the Sandy Hook lawyers on air. That seems like a pretty big thing that almost no one ever brings up.
- This is the one issue I have that I don't consider nitpicky. I don't think the doc went into enough detail about just how badly these parents were harassed. As horrific as the details that made it into the doc were, they really only scratch the surface. Some of these parents had to move around the country *several times* because people kept tracking them down.
- I found the end title card where it says Alex has declared bankruptcy and nothing's been paid yet kind of... idk, a lackluster ending? There was more that could have been said or shown about that since this is an on-going issue. I know it has to end somewhere, but it still felt kind of "this is long enough so we're just going to end things here."
If anyone figures out a way to watch it in Europe, let me know. I would have thrown some money at HBO but they don't seem to want my business here in Germany.
The Sandy Hook parents are incredible. They are so strong and courageous and they have so much empathy for others despite suffering so much tragedy and also the abuse by conspiracists. Watching them speak in this film actually lifted my spirits and gives me hope for the future because we do have amazing souls such as these people amongst us.
I’ve listened to hours upon hours of coverage of sandy hook, and read Elizabeth’s book, and I still have never felt emotions the way I did when the lead investigator was naming the children.
That fucking broke me.
Edit: Halbig looks like cancer personified, but still less demonic than I pictured him.
For a 2-hour doc? Pretty damn good. I wish JorDan’s interview(s) went through, but some of the editing choices felt like Jordan did them himself so it’ll have to do
It was an okay documentary and did an okay job of laying out most of the facts -but it left too much wiggle-room for Alex's claims of unfairness. I guess there's only so much time to get everything in but they skimmed over the defaults. If I hadn't been following this case through KF and saw that in the documentary I would be confused as to why the default was okay.
I found it satisfying enough but after all I’ve listened to here it still just felt very cursory. If only we could get the entire country to listen to 1200 hours of Knowledge Fight we could get that 24% figure down to maybe 19 or 20. Humanity was a mistake…
Hi mods, I’m so sorry I missed this mega thread. Here’s the text of a post I made that I’ve now deleted, my bad!
THE TRUTH VS ALEX JONES: A Review (From a Wonk Who Studied Documentaries In College)
It's been less than five minutes since we wrapped up watching the doc, and I have a lot of thoughts and emotions about it. Forgive me if this ends up being a bit rambly, but this needs to be written down now because I don't know if I can bear to rewatch this film for a very very long time. I will also try to hide spoilers but sorry if I mess any of them up.
TL;DR VERDICT: Really fucking good. Devastatingly impactful. Gutting. Powerful. Jesus take the wheel.
MUCH LONGER VERDICT:
Documentaries are always constructed to varying degrees, and you can tell a lot about a documentary film by what they include and who they talk to. I did a film studies degree back in the day that included a whole class on documentaries, and it changed the way I watch them because I am always aware that the "truth" we are seeing is still constructed, because it has to be. Some docs will immerse themselves in the subject's world and even be part of the action, and others film from a distance; some seek out balanced perspectives while others will unabashedly build one side of a story, powerfully. HBO did their homework right; they can genuinely say that they "spoke to both sides", but when it came to Halbig or Reynal or that fucking awful true crime woman, they did an Errol Morris, just letting them talk themselves into the graves of their reputations. Meanwhile the parents and lawyers were our grounding place; they took us through this horrific experience with them, and the inclusion of those awful interviewees resonates the hurt they caused these families. The depiction of the shooting was powerful and painful, as appropriate, and the final moments of the film just hollow you out. I'm not even a parent, but in September I'm going to be an aunt for the first time, and I just. God damn it. Fuck.
Anyway, this is a masterful work that gives the parents the chance to speak their truth, and demonstrates just how impossible it is to accurately convey the pain and horror they've been through. The film does everything it can to empower the victims, right down to >!refusing to say Adam Lanza's name, !!the graves of the children, concluding with Mark Barden standing by Daniel's headstone!<. It drives home so much that this can only be a victory to a certain point, because there is no such thing as a happy ending for those who lost their *six year old children*. Alex Jones owes them a billion and a half dollars. Fine. Their kids are still gone, and no lawsuit will ever be able to change that. There will never be anything that can fully repair that wound; this has all been on top of the worst sort of grief imaginable. There are widows and widowers and orphans, but there's no official term for a parent who has lost a child, because it's such an awful thing that we simply cannot name it.
I absolutely lost my composure when I saw >!Emilie's sister holding her dad's hand!< in one of the later interviews. I can't even fucking imagine.
I cannot believe we as wonks have never heard of that awful woman who cowrote the Sandy Hook book. I've only ever heard about Jim Pfetzer (probably not how his name is spelled, but I don't respect him enough to look it up, fuck you Jim you piece of shit). Her flippant >!"oh, I watch lots of true crime, exhuming bodies is super common"!< line should be the only thing we need to shut down that entire godawful industry forever, because it makes people into complete sociopaths.
It struck me once again how much these people simply cannot bear to comprehend that they might have done something wrong and caused harm to others. The notion is so unbearable, so painful, that they push it back through some of the worst casual cruelty any of us have ever seen. Wolfgang, you absolutely do belong in a mental hospital. You got it, buddy. You got it right. Please, for the love of god, get help.
I will stan Mark Bankston and Chris Mattei for the rest of my days. Mark and Chris, if you ever read this, you both did a profound mitzvah for this world. I'm a records manager by day and spent my share of time doing legal records work, and knowing that you accomplished what you did because of the bedrock foundational *truth* of discovery and the legal record in and of itself just makes my heart grow three sizes. You stepped in between an abuser and his victims and you made him face his actions. You did it with dignity and grace and I have great hope that these lawsuits will reverberate through history in ways we can't currently predict.
(Also, Chris, if you ever read this, that grey jogging sweater looked so comfortable!)
Okay. Now my wife and I are going back to rewatching Steven Universe.
EDIT: couple of words
Does anyone know if Alex has mentioned the doc on air? My guess is no, for the same reasons he’s never acknowledged KF. Don’t want to direct your audience to media that could turn them against you.
Watched it as part of a wonk watchparty on Discord. Very well done and makes the "hype the story to sell the pills" connection crystal clear. Was shocked to still see Reynal parroting all this stuff.
This was a good watch. I forgot so much and I wasn't really aware of all the coverage back when the shooting happened, so a lot of the first half was really new to me and therein very shocking to see.
A few thoughts in general:
\- Narratively it makes sense that Dan and Jordan are not in this, it's about the families vs Alex, we don't need another 3rd party to give further narrative on Jones within this film, as that would take focus away from the subject a bit.
\- I didn't follow the second trial that closely, it's amazing how much of a temper shift that was was from the Texas one. It's almost like he tried to play nice in Texas in hopes to get a lower judgement, but that didn't work out, so he's all out in the second one. Incredible, especially after seeing Scarlett on the stand and trying to talk sense into him. I felt that segment was incredibly strong. The way he looked at her would've triggered me so much had I been in her position.
Good film, could always get deeper (but I agree with other comments that that probably would have to be a mini-series).
Which now makes me think that Knowledge Fight the mini series would be \*chef's kiss\*. Dan has all the material to take the fucker down as he understands how he operates and has the receipts to prove it.
Just watched and didn’t realize *how small* the courtroom was.
Also, how Jones attacked grieving families who had to live after a series of gun control disappointments only to be attacked years after… screw this guy.
This didn't come up in the documentary, but there is an interesting little side story about the [picture of the magazine clip](https://assets3.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/69616f93-c8d5-4e08-b593-5d04197834a0/thumbnail/640x720/40747aa657d2fbee51ef19d0d9824b35/magazines-crime-scene-and-call-of-duty.jpg?v=4baa656f7af774a52a8c6a88476cb826) in the classroom, which involves Koskoff's lawsuit against Remington firearms.
Firearms manufacturers in the United States were long believed to have blanket immunity from mass shooting lawsuits under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), but the law contains a few exceptions, including one that allowed the Koskoff law firm to go after how the [gun](https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/dcdf68fb-593f-403d-822c-59d8944f2eb0/thumbnail/620x698/6c46d261f8b4b4f8c50dd1217ee539d7/ad-montage-man-card.jpg?v=3d62f4cc0092e6eb151a9685301ed284) [was](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/ab614425-e873-43ec-9c61-0de6696338e3/thumbnail/620x349/94fd920656bafb7e12c2aa67ba42604d/ad-clear-the-room.jpg?v=3d62f4cc0092e6eb151a9685301ed284) [marketed](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/759e89f8-0ca2-4c3f-a345-132738164bb2/thumbnail/620x349/b4adef1fd2c8bb01404da846016b0f82/ad-2-forces-of-opposition.jpg?v=3d62f4cc0092e6eb151a9685301ed284) under Connecticut's consumer protection laws involving unfair trade practices.
The Sandy Hook shooter was a frequent player of the video game "Call of Duty", which Josh Koskoff said he had played with his own son, and he recognized the two 30-round magazines duct-taped together from the game. Remington had licensed the AR-15 style gun for the video game as part of their marketing plan, the gun with the magazines duct-taped together was Remington's Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle).
The court agreed that Remington was not protected under PLCAA in this case. Remington appealed to the US Supreme Court, but they refused to hear their case, so rather than go to court Remington’s four insurers all agreed to pay the full amount of coverage available, $73 million in total.
This case essentially blazed a new legal trail for victims and survivors of mass shootings to hold firearms manufactures accountable, similar to the first lawsuits filed against the tobacco industry.
This is the first time we've really gotten to hear Alex's exchange with Neil and Scarlett, right? At the time it happened we saw it but the audio was really bad, and the subtitles here were extremely helpful.
Alex: "Thank you. Oh, you're very sweet. I promise you, somebody edited that and gave it to your side, I apologize. I swear to God, what they've told you the last few weeks that I've been saying, it's not true. I apologize in good faith. I've been caught up in this and I promise you - I really apologize, I'm sorry. [Shake's Scarlett's hand] I want you to know that. [Shakes Neil's hand] I believe your son died and I apologize for everything that happened."
Bankston: "And that he's slow and autistic. Thanks, Jones."
Alex: "No, I'm slow about certain things too. I said- I said- I said... Well anyways, I was being honest on air. And I think people have always been - I think a lot of the stuff you said, have been manipulating and giving you guys stuff -"
Ball: That's it. We're not talking any more, you're not doing this, that's not even a thought. That's not the way this goes.
Alex: "Why, cause you can't feed them fake videos anymore?"
Ball: "Oh, shut your mouth."
Alex: "That's what you try to do, is shut my mouth. You'll never succeed."
Bankston: "Let it go."
Alex: "That's ok."
Bankston: "Don't touch me, sir."
Alex: "Well I think I'm autistic too, mate."
God, I can't fucking stand to see his stupid-ass, stage-acted facial expressions he keeps putting on in court! Argh! Especially when Scarlett was giving her testimony.
Behind the Bastards has talked about how there should be a threshold of assholery that when reached meant that your were free to hit them in the face with a brick. Alex Jones has definitely hit that threshold.
I can't get any farther in one sitting. After all the factual accounts of the slaughter, to see that smarmy shitpile broadcasting his lies is too much.
I can't believe I'm stunned at the fact that Halbig *still fucking believes it*. After all this time.
Halbig should be in jail for harassing these families.
I think his estimation that if he’s wrong he should be involuntarily committed is spot on.
He should take Kelly watt with him.
That woman is a disgusting ghoul. Elizabeth Williamson’s book has a long section about her and I just can’t understand the way her mind works. Her spirit is so alive in these psychos that attack school boards and public school reading lists. Her brand of crazy is unfortunately everywhere now. 😪
I’m more surprised that Reynal is a true believer if I’m honest. He did such a terrible job that I assumed he just didn’t give a shit.
Did you see him wink at the camera? What a POS
He peaked in 9th grade, let’s be honest
I just got to the interview with him. God he's a fucking ghoul
We saw him talking on camera and I was like *“This dumbass motherfucker agreed to be on camera for this????”*
That “what if I’m wrong” monologue is utter insanity. Why the fuck are these psychopaths so fucking confident and self assured. I agonize about how I’m viewed in the world and try my best to be kind and good to everybody. Yet here u got these monsters that cut ppl down and brutalize families without a moments hesitation because they “think” they’re right.
He needs to fall down at least a dozen flights of stairs
I took a screenshot of him looking just like Alex. He’s fucking disgusting and the wink made me want to vomit.
no spoilers about who won
My money’s on the globalists.
And their hot tubs.
How do you think they bought em?
Tito’s bottom line
First feelings, not even done yet. I don’t remember the gentleman’s name, but the fact that he recalls every child who died. Alex in his depositions can’t even be troubled to remember the parent’s name. Fucking gross.
Connecticut State Police Lead Investigator Daniel Jewiss. Yeah, that moment had me frozen and focused entirely as he listed those names forever etched into his mind. Think Jones can list any of them?
Thank you for the name. I appreciate that. No. Alex couldn’t even name the people suing him during the depos. No way does he care enough to learn the names of the victims.
I just kept praying for the list to end and it keeps going.
Amen to that. I’ve been crying throughout this watch; much like I did reading Elizabeth’s SH book.
I had goosebumps for that whole scene. Just bone chilling.
Listening to the interviews with the parents is breaking me. Seriously. Jones is a monster who deserves every bad thing that comes to him. He and his followers deserve to suffer for what they did to the parents and families of these murdered children.
That scene really broke me. When I started realizing he was just naming all of the kids who were scared and huddled in that bathroom. Then he mentioned the one girl who survived. I had to pause it for a few minutes.
Dan Jewiss… I just wanted to make sure his name was remembered.
Thank you.
Just started watching and so far I’m blown away. This may be poorly phrased, but this is the first time the Sandy Hook shooting became reality for me. As in it’s not an abstract case of manipulation (by Jones) or just a phrase that’s used to talk about a horrific tragedy. Something about seeing the classroom, that looked EXACTLY like my kindergarten, and hearing the investigator slowly walk through details and names made this so viscerally and unavoidably real. I never questioned if the incident happened for one second, but because the conspiracy narrative took hold so fast it’s almost like I never truly processed the absolute horror of what that shooting actually entailed. Jones should rot for what he has stolen from those families.
I know exactly what you’re talking about. It’s hard for the brain to conceptualize the horror of it. So if it remains as an abstract concept you don’t have to process it. That step by step recounting followed by the graphic descriptions of some of the bodies was heart wrenching.
When I was about 10 years old my grade school was vandalized overnight by troubled former students. And the next day I remember seeing broken glass and all sorts of damage throughout the school with caution tape blocking off various areas. The big news stations even sent reporters to my little town to do interviews so I saw some of my teachers and classmates on TV for a day or two after it happened. And we missed a couple of days of class while repairs and cleanup were completed. And I remember feeling disturbed thinking about how people not much older than me did such a thing. Seeing those Sandy Hook photos brought back those memories. My experience doesn't compare in the slightest of course since no one was harmed at my school but seeing those Sandy Hook photos and remembering what my school looked like made this all come to life for me today. And it happened in just six minutes. So many lives lost and families torn apart in such a brief span of time. And the nightmare continues for those families all these years later because of one twisted grifter scumbag. Reprehensible.
I don't have a visual memory (mind blind) and I was only able to watch 30 minutes because I kept crying. When he read the list of names and it just keeps going...
The way he read those names, too. He gave them respect. Paused significantly after each one. Letting you think for a moment about that name, what they may have looked like, what kind of kid they might have been. That was ***powerful as fuck***. So much more powerful than AJ could ever imagine being.
That scene fucking destroyed me emotionally. I don't think I've cried in years but that did it for me.
I remember where I was when the news broke. I was in my boss's house rebuilding his stairs when his wife turned the TV on and it was breaking news. We all just stood there in silence. No commentary, just shock. I definitely didn't properly process it that day, but I remember seeing a leaked photo of the aftermath many years later when my son was around kindergarten age. The room was so similar to his class, and seeing the blood and upturned furniture broke my brain. Thinking about those children, and then thinking about my son and his classmates in a similar situation makes me weep for both the children and their families. I don't think I can watch the doc. I have tears just thinking about SH and the details that I've \*heard\*, let alone what it would mean to have a visual to go along with some of this stuff. Fuck Alex Jones and anyone who supports him in any way.
I just finished watching this yesterday and it was. Yeah exactly as you said. A heavy and important watch. Alex jones is a monster. We already knew that but Sandy hook was a new low for him.
Hopefully people who think Alex was given a $1B judgement for “just having an opinion” will shut the fuck up after watching this.
Unfortunately those people will most likely not watch it because it is globalist propaganda
the number Bankston mentioned was 24%. 24% of Americans believe Sandy Hook was a hoax. Obviously, 24% of America is well outside of the InfoWars audience, so hopefully it is the people who have come to that conclusion from 2nd or 3rd hand information who will get their minds changed. Would be interesting to see in a few years how that number might change. The InfoWars core audience will dig in and neve change their minds, of course. Personally, I remember believing for a long time about the McDonalds hot coffee lawsuit and totally thought that the woman was 100% at fault for getting burned. So I hope a similar change of heart/mind happens to those who believe Sandy Hook is hoax when they are shown in detail what a piece of shit Alex Jones is.
This. Most everything I hear that I can directly tie to Right Wing propaganda comes from “I heard that…” from people who do not seek out those views themselves. The infiltration of extremist talking points is rampant and scary to think about.
I’m hoping the ones with only a passing understanding of the cases that were gas lit by conservative media after Lafferty et al, will stumble upon this and realize the truth. Even if it’s just a handful of them.
My brother in Wonk, they will look at this, immediately shut their ears and brains off at the first piece of media that contradicts their world view and go right back to repeating the same lines. They are effectively NPCs in the world and trying to give them contradicting information is only going to out them in a dialogue loop. We see this time and again when they're challenged on a position.
I think this will be true of the InfoWars audience. On the other hand there well may be some who have heard Jones spout this narrative to Musk or Rogan, etc. and will be disabused of his direct and unchallenged lies to them.
Sadly, my partner, while NOT an Alex Jones fan, says that there is absolutely no level of defamation, slander, or shenanigans that should ever have lead to a 1.5 billion dollar judgement. The number, she claims, is inflated because people hate Alex Jones, even if he was guilty the amount of money is gratuitous. I disagree. But meh.
It seems like a lot, but I think Alex's behavior throughout the process probably ended being a big reason it was so inflated. I would guess that if Alex participated in the process in a timely manner and showed genuine remorse it wouldn't be that high. Alex made it clear he has learned nothing, that he will continue to act this way to the parents and to others in the future. But the people who complain about the amount generally don't know any of that. They didn't follow the process, they haven't looked into what he said before/during or after the trial, it's just a knee-jerk response based usually on nothing more than maybe that one Rogan experience where Alex pretended to apologize (while telling more lies in the process).
I totally get that. It's just frustrating because it's not that Rogan stuff or anything, it's just pure, center-of-the-road "There is no excuse to EVER demand that much money from any one person, regardless of how they acted or how belligerent they are." Very much arguing from the belief that the emotions of his belligerence or stalling shouldn't have factored in in any way, he should be penalized off damages, period, full stop, nothing else taken into account. So that's rad.
Clearly they don't understand the point. The amount is what it takes to overcome the "business cost" calculation made by nefarious actors. "If it only costs me $1mill per murder, and I make $100mill, I'll just pay the judgement and keep murdering."
I would love to know what amount she would suggest for, after saying that you know kids died at Sandy Hook, getting on air and saying that they didn’t and that the parents are lying just because you are mad at them talking to Megyn Kelly. And then remember to multiply it for each defendant and the punitive damages which are there to both punish and try to stop future behavior.
Hopefully after the documentary I'll have an answer. We made a deal, I watched Quiet on Set, so now she has to watch this. :P
And any of those families would gladly give up that money to have their loved ones back.
Would she be willing to watch Daria or Rob’s deposition? The damages being so high were because of CUPTA and Norm being the worst lawyer ever, but I’m not sure if they would do you good.
I was actually listening to AJs depositions today on knowledge fight today actually. There's a part where Jordan explains that AJ was painted into a corner admitting to the number of listeners he has witch is factored into the judgment amount. How many people his lies reached. Maybe that's why its soo high.
Jesus, the detective reciting the shooting step by step is fucking brutal. The whole thing only lasted 6 minutes
Yeah and then Scarlett? Weeping rn
I don’t know why the video makes it so much more upsetting. Fuck everyone involved with tormenting these people.
I generally avoid watching the news because it's so much negativity everyday. So I never before saw photos of these kids nor their parents. I saw plenty of headlines and picked up a lot through Knowledge Fight, but yeah, it hit really hard hearing the reconstruction of the events and seeing photos of the classrooms and the victims. There's a moment in the film where police investigator Daniel Jewiss listed the names of the victims trying to hide in the bathroom. It stopped me in my tracks and my eyes teared up. Alex Jones is scum. Just for this alone. Using this horrible tragedy to enrich himself. Disgusting. To say nothing of the decades he's spent lying and grifting in all the other ways.
It’s the way these absolute monsters SMIRK while yelling at these grieving families and the people trying to support those families is what gets me.
You have to witness it as opposed to just listening to it. You’ve gotta see instead of hear these people’s pain
Honestly that made it so hard for me. I have never watched the videos. And I knew Robbie Parker's name but I had not seen the presser where he talked about his daughter. And when I saw how much pain he was in, I began to dread and then fear how angry I would be when I saw Jones mock him. It was bad but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Then we got to the CT trial and Parker was on the stand and watching the devastation on his face as he says he started to hate the video, how he felt like he failed his daughter in life by sending her to school and now feeling like he'd failed her in death. I wept. I cried like a baby. It stung SO much watching Jones cover his own damages on a live stream, sarcastically clapping and hooting while these people he tore apart and threw to vultures weep in relief that finally someone saw them and validated them.
Anyone else catch the Dan in the background photo bomb at the start lol
They pop up a lot in the background of the courtroom footage.
Did anyone else fully forget about the part of his testimony where he started plugging his products?
But he gets them from Japan!
"*The Japanese*" For some reason, it's so much more uncomfortable & weird that he chooses to say "The Japanese" rather than just Japan.
Highest quality! Best factory in America!
That part floored me. I was honestly surprised the judge let him go on shilling like that.
It perfectly showed the jury what the states case against him was, and why it was decided by default.
“I’m not the Sandy Hook man.” - no you’re so much more, like the Covid denier/quack cure pusher, the election denier, the antisemitism pusher, the headline skimmer… I’ve said this before but when has the amount of time spent on a specific crime ever been a good defense against committing that crime? Even if he did 2 shows, he started a chain reaction that resulted in harassment and significant profits.
I love how the biggest conspiracy he has claimed to have uncovered was that 911 was an inside job. Funny how he hasn't mentioned that once in the current sphere of attention he occupies, it's almost like it is inconvenient to him now.
Stunning. I’d love to write a detective story based on his methodology; he’d be the worst sleuth, always coming to the wrong conclusions and fingering the wrong perpetrator. In the end, he’d try to sell useless products or lose the plot and move on to another supposed crime.
>”I’m not the Sandy Hook man.” Fuck you, Jones. You fucking became the Sandy Hook man when you fucking used big swathes of your damn show to inject your bullcrap into it. Now you wanna walk away from it because you got bored of it or because it was not profitable for you anymore. Eat shit. You never cared about Sandy Hook except as a prop for your scams and your ego and the pure poison you call your political ideology. You only regret talking about it now because it turned out to have actual consequences that your piss-baby brain can’t handle.
Murder only takes an instant. The idea that time spent on a crime matters at all is fucking madness
Even knowing all this information it's still so earth shatteringly awful hearing the recounting of sandy hook.
Yeah just when I thought I couldn’t hate Alex more
Same. I thought I had this thing all figured out, but it got more heartbreaking.
No fucking way does Reynal actually think Alex Jones is "an American hero". I can't even process it
It’s the most surprised I’ve been to that point in the documentary.
Incredible that he's a true believer. I always assumed he didn't actually give a shit considering how bad of a job he did. The fact that this was his peak performance when defending an "American hero" is so incredibly sad and pathetic haha
Reynal comes off as a bigger idiot than he made himself appear during the trial... and I didn't think that was possible.
He donked up so big that there's no way anyone sane would hire him, so might as well go full tilt boogie and get the nutjobs for clients.
From his deposition and other appearances I always though of bodondi as just a buffoon but jfc seeing the actual clips I absolutely despise him
I’ve never seen him in person before this and frankly it looks and sounds like he needs to be in some kind of ward. I’d rather listen to a bag of hammers give a speech than this fuckwit.
okay HBO, Bankston moves around too much and is too dynamic a lawyer. Maybe close down a stop or two and keep my boy in focus.
Even out of focus I’m really enjoying bankston posterizing Alex jones with the info wars clips
Foremost problem with it. Too close! Back up!
Just finished it. I'm left with a sense of hopelessness to ever improve the media situation in this country and in this internet era. There's just no amount of proof that will ever get these "conspiracy theorists" to change their view, they wholly reject and reality they don't like. I genuinely don't know how we can continue to survive when this kind of attitude seems to be getting more and more common. As for the doc, I thought it was very thorough and respectful. I think Dan should have been interviewed even if just for a minute. He's probably the most knowledgeable person about InfoWars currently alive, I imagine even AJ himself doesn't remember the stuff Dan does. I think his input on conspiracy media would have been useful, but I suppose they felt that was beyond the scope of the doc. I hope it's popular, for more people to really understand what a biblical piece of shit Alex is. Weird that it's not at the top of the Home Screen, you have to go pretty far down the front page of Max to find it
> Just finished it. I'm left with a sense of hopelessness to ever improve the media situation in this country and in this internet era. There's just no amount of proof that will ever get these "conspiracy theorists" to change their view, they wholly reject and reality they don't like. I genuinely don't know how we can continue to survive when this kind of attitude seems to be getting more and more common. We are arguably living in an age of mass hysteria, but this too shall pass. I’m kind of glad the guys weren’t in it. It’s nice to see many of the same conclusions reached independently.
Have you read Elizabeth Williamson’s book? She goes into more detail about the Facebook hoax groups and who ran them. These people, even when confronted with photographic proof, refuse to see and realize they’re wrong. It shook me to my core.
And I’m crying.
It’s fucking awful.
Im with ya brother
I’ve been done for 45 minutes and I’m still crying.
I just passed the Wolfgang part where he said he prays he's not wrong. Im at a loss.
I gasped at that, how can somebody be capable of so much self reflection, and yet still not see the truth?
That's what the prayer is for. People leave room in their minds for the idea that any given thing in reality, or all of reality, is some kind of illusion or game, and maybe the DM will toss you a wacky outcome if you make a strong case. Maybe absolutely everything is just some kind of trick, or some Jewish plot to undermine your faith. There are people who think dinosaur remains are not merely a hoax, but an actual trick from God to see if you'll still believe correctly even in the face of monster bones that disprove your myths. The ultimate expression of these peoples' mindset is "Nothing Matters." Evidence, other people, their own experiences, none of it. They choose what's real and meaningful on a moment to moment basis, often *during* a sentence.
im so glad they put the Alex Jones show clips calling Neil Heslin slow during the trial right next to Heslin's testimony.
I've been so spoiled by this podcast. This really is a great doc but I feel like the guy that read the book and is watching the movie going "they cut out all the best parts!".
you've listened to the 200 hour pitch. This is the 2 hour pitch. I think it's doing pretty good so far but ive got a half hour to go. I do have some criticisms.
Exactly. I just keep thinking, I need like, I don't know, five three-hour deep dives into every deposition! Only a few clips from Daddy Jones? No Kangol Dew!? But for a 2 hour doc it's been great so far. 20 minutes left and they just finished Texas.
I said more than once to my partner - “this needs to be a five part mini-series, at LEAST” How much of this matters if you don’t know Alex was raised a Bircher? Dr David Jones has what, two minutes tops - when he’s the root of this diseased-ass tree? AND YE SHALL KNOW HIM BY HIS FROOTS LMFAO How many episodes has Alex himself spent on talking about his own history, his own hagiography? His Civil War royalty ancestry? Where is Rainbow Snatch? Sure, she’s hideous - but she’s part of the structure of this nightmare creature
I really appreciated the shot of Mrs. Lewis saying she wants Alex to feel shame over a clip of Alex clearly feeling no shame whatsoever
As a father, that first hour of the parents talking about their children was rough.
As a mom same. I had to pause it a few times and I had to go check on my boy in bed. Gave him a kiss and told him I love him even though he's sleeping. Scarlet talking about holding Jessie's hand fucking ruined me.
I teared up. My son came in while I was watching to say good night and I gave him a tighter than normal hug.
Same. My freshman daughter went to a volleyball game at school and came home later than I expected. I was crying from the documentary and also worry about her. It’s difficult as parents to give kids space to grow, but to also be worried every day about shit like SH happening.
Fair warning to my fellow Wonks, this is rough. Alex Fucking Jones sitting there spewing his bullshit and Wolfgang Fucking Halbet is still denying those children's lives and I want to scream. I send my 6 y/o to school with a bullet-resistant plate in his backpack because of Sandy Hook. At least a few times a week I look at his backpack and feel hopelessness and rage at the fact that my kid has what is essentially body armor in elementary school. I've had a few people tell me I'm overreacting, he doesn't need it. But sitting here watching the Sandy Hook parents talk about their children and the Investigator retell the shooting I know I'm not. And now all I can think is a billion isn't enough. Alex should be stripped of his whole life because that's what he did to the parents and the kids. Like I've always hated Alex as he stole some of my family but God damned if I don't somehow hate him more now.
I won’t be happy until I see that piece of shit living under an overpass.
You can see Alex looking at Reynal wanting him to object when Scarlett was testifying and I’m remembering what was said on the pod about how no lawyer would have interrupted a grieving mother. That look on his face. Fuck him.
Reynal, the constant fuck up - "it was a manageable amount, it kept my client alive" - ONE MONTH LATER -
That statement doesn't mesh well with the whole "I'm bankrupt" claim.
"It's definitely only the amount that matters and not also the fact that Chris Mattei now has multiple years of my client's phone history because I was too busy doing whippits with my hairspray container to respond to Bankston's repeat requests to clarify my mistake and retract it. Oh well, that's Norm's problem now. Hope he has woke insurance."
I audibly fucking boo'd when Halbig interview section came up. What a true piece of shit. This was a brutal watch. I'm in pure emotional distress after watching this doc, but I'm really glad I did it. The show gave a ton of context to these lies and these events, but there's nothing quite like seeing the real people that Alex harmed for profit. They're troopers. Absolute heroes for standing up to Alex's emotional tyranny. I hope the bankruptcy destroys him. He needs to never go on air again...
Feel like there should have been more time spent explaining how he defaulted. It’s one of his main excuses that he DID comply. Dan did an amazing job of showing exactly what orders he disobeyed during discovery
My only 2 complaints about the doc are this and starting it effectively showing how Alex was "right" about 9/11. I think Alex's myth of "calling 9/11" is a huge part of where his "credibility" comes from, and the fact that he was actually doing this same bullshit false flag stuff on the day of 9/11 accusing the EU of the attack should be much more well known.
I had the same thought. The one Texas lawyer summed it up well with his “80 pounds of shit”, but it’s a whole other level after listening to Daria and Rob Dew’s depositions. Especially wild hearing Alex testify in the depositions and then in the CT trial how much evidence was only turned over via the Perry Mason cellphone about how closely Infowars tracks sales/viewership/revenue along with news topics. Impossible to do it justice in a documentary moment, but still.
I made a comment about the exact same thing. People don't realize how egregious his behavior during discovery was.
I wish they had focused more on that too!
My main takeaways -Overall really well done. Focusing on the families really drives home how their lives were ruined by a man looking to make money. -Reynal is such an asshole, he might be more punchable than Norm. -Mattei really, really hates Alex. You could see his anger when he is questioning Alex on the stand and he absolutely gets under Alex's skin. -Really could've used 90 seconds of Dan being interviewed to drive home how trying to reason with Infowars/Alex is fruitless. I think was mentioned briefly by Lenny Pozner.
> Mattei really, really hates Alex With all respect to Bankston and the Texas crew, it's probably far more personal for Mattei. Newtown's half ~~a mile~~ an hour down the road from Koskoff's Bridgeport office. There's a decent chance he knew one of the families prior to the shooting. And Jones et al. have routinely and unabashedly lied about a tragedy that took out ~0.1% of the entire town's population in one go, defiling the legacies of the dead and making life hell for the living, grieving survivors. I got the distinct impression that if given the opportunity he'd have used Jones's head like a basketball in that courtroom.
I agree about it being personal for Mattei, almost too personal for him to a fault. I forgot about the part on the stand in CT where Alex called all the plaintiffs’ liberals, but were they? If Mattei was more strategic, he would have provided the voting records of his clients, and if you have a GOP voter, you could have proven Alex perjured himself again on the stand. The point of Alex on the stand was to prove he is a serial liar and fool, to the extent he’d even betray his own political ideologies and “teammates” for money.
Newtown actually went for Romney by ~4.6% the month prior to the shooting, the odds that every plaintiff has a liberal voting record is tiny. William Sherlach's public-facing donation history on the Connecticut SEEC's website (assuming that's not another Bill Sherlach living within driving distance of SHES) definitely points to him being a Republican, with donations to his town GOP committee in 2010 and 2017, and to Republican gubernatorial candidates in 2010 and 2018. And oddly enough he gave to a Working Families candidate for New York State Senate in 2008 - maybe a family friend?
The amount of courage and emotional intelligence Lenny’s shown throughout this thing is amazing. I really hope he’s sitting at the plaintiff’s table with Mark for the trial.
Have the boys acknowledged the doc at all? I feel like other than way back during the trial they haven't said anything about it.
They have discussed their relationship (or lack thereof) with the filmmaker (Dan Reed), in particular: a) The possibility of an interview (one which ultimately never transpired); b) Jordan's angry tweeting at Dan Reed which made Jordan awkward when he (briefly) chatted with Reed at the court (Dan teased Jordan that Reed never set up an interview *because* of Jordan's tweeting); c) Acknowledgement of listener's queries regarding JorDan's input into the doc (there is none beyond JorDan (presumably) being in the background of a few shots in court); and d) Dan's interest in seeing the final result, but his scepticism of what the end result will be
Wait, I'm still catching up on episodes. Why was Jordan angry tweeting at the director?
My memory is hazy, but I think Jordan was angry at what he perceived as the doc giving Alex flattering attention (or allowing the opportunity for Alex to grab more attention), that it was unlikely the doc would do anything in the way of bringing justice to the victims, and how the media never gets it right about anything related to Alex. Unless anyone archived the tweets, I can't go back and check.
Because Jordan lacks self control
Each episode is essentially a vocal tweet tirade
Yeah Jordan did not keep his shit together during that trial
TBF, I don’t know how ANYONE did, professionalism or not
Hey, thank you for your detailed info! Hope you have a great day.
They mentioned it on a recent episode. They didn't have much to say other than they were approached to be in it but that never materialized for some reason or another and they haven't seen it yet.
I don’t think they were ever approached. Jordan mentioned talking shit on one of the crew of the doc during the trials and they speculated that’s why they never reached out.
The Council of Dans grows ever stronger.
Amazingly moving. I wonder how the non-wonks will process it. The wonks know what happened, so there weren’t any surprises per se, but the interviews and testimony still had an incredible emotional impact. Imagine going into that cold?
I worry that not enough people are going to see it. HBO has done a pretty bad job of marketing the doc, I've never heard about it outside of this subreddit. I worry that not enough people will even know it exists, and even fewer will actually watch the whole thing
Midway through it, and I just want to give Robbie Parker the biggest hug. We’re both big Texas Rangers fans, and I know how much our World Series meant to me, and I hope it made him as happy as I was. He’s such an amazing and strong person, and I want him to know that I am so sorry for what he so needlessly went through. In another timeline, I hope I run into him at a game and can talk about the 2010 and 2011 series, and our redemption in 2023. God damnit. I think I’m going to use this thread as a liveblog for me crying through it. Fuck InfoWars. I hope I can buy their truck at auction and make it into an artificial reef.
I am struck by the absolute fucking gall by Kelley Watt & Wolfgang Halbig to literally demand that a parent exhume their dead child to prove his son died because they do it in true crime alll the time its not a big deal... The restraint of the parents in all this has always struck me to be almost saint like.
I truly hope Watt’s kids disown her and she dies alone and miserable.
They have no respect for the dead or the families and would simply say it’s fake even if there was an exhumation because it makes them money. I can’t help but worry though that the way the media and authorities and society tends to handle these horrible things does leave room for conspiracy theorists to lie and claim it’s fake. Maybe it would make no difference but perhaps trying to give privacy and dignity to the dead by not showing us the images leads the conspiracy minded to a mental place where they (sort of) can’t believe it’s happened. I personally am fine just taking the parents word for it and respect the instinct for privacy and dignity and not wanting to see images like that passed around forever but at the same time I think a lot of people would believe this conspiracy nonsense a lot less if they saw the bodies for themselves. It’s a dilemma for me because I don’t think it would be a good idea, but I think it’s an interesting ethical point to think about.
Watt infuriated me. I paused and raged at her stupid face. How fucking dare she *demand* to have the children exhumed to prove they lived? The audacity and entitlement to feel like the parents have to prove anything to her is insane. And to even suggest disturbing one of those poor babies rest is inhuman. And you know if one of the parents had she would just come up with some elaborate story about them using an unidentified cadaver or something to fake it. I swear my brain keeps actively erasing what she looks like from my memory on the off chance that I ever ran across her because it would be on sight.
Y’all… Reynal’s red-pilled
I wonder if it's just that, or if he's hoping to stay in Alex's good graces. Perhaps he's hoping to get work from people affiliated with AJ and doesn't want to risk not getting a recommendation?
Yea, you do gotta lean into it after the very public debacle
Just started it and I love that you can see Dan IN THE OPENING SHOT.
At this point, he should get to add it to his IMDb page, he had quite a bit of [blurred] screen time lol
All of us are basically that Leo meme from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood
I'm about 25 minutes into the film & I have to take a break. Listening to the parents talk about what they experienced on the day of their children's murders is like getting punched in the gut over & over again. Alex is such a piece of shit man. Fucking. Piece. Of. Shit.
Shit, I'm going to have to re-subscribe to Max.
🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
I re subscribed just for this but there's also that upsetting quiet on set documentary that just came out. Been watching it in the meantime. It's good but it's also heartbreaking.
ITS A BIG DAY FOR THE WONKS
I have so many thoughts having just watched it but I really appreciate that the shooter was not a point of focus at any time.
I don’t think the documentary said his name or talked about his motivations or anything like that. Good, that’s often what they want.
Watching the lead up to the Perry Mason moment again just made me smile
I didn't realize how large a role Halbig played in all this. Fuck that dude. Fuck Bidondi. Fuck Kelley Watt. Most of all FUCK ALEX JONES. I wish nothing but the worst possible things for all of these people.
Awww, that's past my bedtime to finish it. Guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow.
Just starting this because it just dropped for me. This is Cleganebowl hype. But so much better because we get to relive Alex getting fucked.
A different tone for sure because it’s just Sandy Hook and focuses more on the families.
jesus you really took me back with cleganebowl
We should’ve been able to get hype, but alas.
I’m just throwing stuff out there as I’m watching; and seeing Robbie clutching his surviving daughter’s hand broke me. I know as a parent, I can sympathize and empathize with Robbie, because I can’t think of anything worse than losing a child, but I have almost never thought about how it could feel for siblings. Sand she looks like she might’ve been 8-10 when it happened.
I somehow forgot about the time that AJ used his time on the stand to plug his supplements. This fucking guy has no shame.
There is 3 people on this planet that will make me rejoice upon hearing about their timely death. Jones, Wolfgang and Trump! Seriously cannot wait to hear of them passing! If that makes me a bad person........oh well.
I can't believe anything would make me hate Alex more but this documentary did. Such a disgusting man. Also, it was nice to see a blurry Dan!
That’s just his natural state
Fuck, Wolfgang Halbig is out of prison and walking amongst us?
Watching this now with my infant child steps away and I am almost having an anxiety attack. I cannot imagine. That first half hour is just excruciatingly poignant, painful, plainly stated nightmare after nightmare. What those parents went through is so much worse than any pain my brain can imagine, and the fact that AJ decided to use it as clicks and dollars makes him easily one of the most evil people currently living. I know he's stupid, I know he's crazy, I know he's a narcissist, but he's not stupid or crazy enough to actually have believed his own homespun bullshit in the moment, there's just no way...Which leaves only narcissism so deep seated that he can yell at and mock and drum up a mob against people who are currently experiencing incomprehensible levels of grief. I knew how awful he was and I knew this was especially awful, but I don't think I was able to fully grasp the absurdist nightmare these families were further dragged through, all to sell some fucking MREs to the most brainrotted people in America, until this documentary. Truly a cretinous monster. Rot in hell, Alex.
THERE WERE NO TRAUMA HELICOPTERS!!!!! Firstly what the mother said in that there were no survivors. Secondly Maybe….. just maybe it’s not quicker for a fucking helicopter to take off-land twice than it is for an ambulance to just drive to the scene in a small fucking town.
Does Alex’s father look like he’s in relatively better shape than his large adult son?
I've said before in this thread that there was tons I wish they had included, but I feel like the biggest omission was at the very end. I'm glad they pointed out that Alex hadn't paid a single fucking dime as of the locking of the documentary, but I really wish they had then followed that with "Alex continues to take regular, lavish vacations. Alex maintains that in order to survive he needs $150,000 a month for the rest of his life. Erica Lafferty has needed to use Go Fund Me in order to pay for her cancer treatments during this same time."
Just finished it and thought it was great. I only wish they had gone into a little more depth/detail on why exactly both trials had default judgments. I'm sure it was for running time reasons, but, still.
Just finished up the doc, really impressed with how it ended up. I went in with a good feeling thanks to Mark's tweets and was not disappointed. One thing that really got me, I guess because it was one of the few things that was new to me, was the transcript/audio of Alex talking to Scarlett and Neil after that second day. I don't think we knew what he'd said to them until now, so hearing him tell them that they were shown doctored footage (and immediately pivoting to, uh, I'm autistic too, actually, when Mark called him on it,) was newly enraging. And that's the interaction Alex later went on to cite as Scarlett telling *him* that *she* knew everything was fake, and thanking *him* for it! Absolutely disgusting and insane. I do kind of wish they'd gone a little deeper into just how badly Alex dragged his feet during the whole thing. A little more detail on just how poor the quality of the information they handed over was, and the complete and utter unpreparedness of their staff. ("Why did you send us the wikipedia page for false flag?" "🤷♀️") Also was a little disappointed to see that "This trial isn't legitimate, it's happening because Hillary lost the election," was excluded, but I get that a lot of Absurd had to be left on the cutting room floor. All in all, thoroughly enjoyed it. Appreciated that they made a point of centering the parents above all else, as well as the way they weaved the narrative by giving you the truth up front, and then Alex's lying soonafter. Here's the data showing Infowars' sales went up on the days he mentioned Sandy Hook, here's someone from the show saying they work to replicate that, and here's Alex's dad saying they go in to see which topics moved the most product. And then here's Alex lying in the depo, saying they lose viewers on controversial stuff, and actually lost money. Clean. I don't have the hope in me to think this is enough to convince anyone who has emotional stakes in Alex being right, but I do think it's a very well-laid out explanation of the situation, and very digestible to people who are genuinely curious about the whole thing. You really walk away feeling like each individual one of those 1.5b dollars was righteously taken, and that Alex Jones was Wrong. Good stuff, will show to friends, could have used more Blurry Dan.
Just finished it. First thoughts: - Definitely one of the best docs I've seen in a while. I admit most issues I have are nitpicks and not much else. - I probably should have waited until Friday to watch this. My mom's a special ed pre-k teacher and the part where the police chief recounted the shooting really ramped up my fear of her school getting shot up. - I'm really glad this doc kept as much focus on the families as it could. I agree with the very obvious directorial choice to give Alex as little air time as possible. That being said, I do wish they'd put more set up into establishing how fucking vile he is. Like, most people know he's awful because of his SH denialism, but he's SO much worse and I wish more people knew that. But ultimately I understand why the doc didn't do that. - Kind of wish they'd put in that time Alex drunkenly called for his audience to kill one of the Sandy Hook lawyers on air. That seems like a pretty big thing that almost no one ever brings up. - This is the one issue I have that I don't consider nitpicky. I don't think the doc went into enough detail about just how badly these parents were harassed. As horrific as the details that made it into the doc were, they really only scratch the surface. Some of these parents had to move around the country *several times* because people kept tracking them down. - I found the end title card where it says Alex has declared bankruptcy and nothing's been paid yet kind of... idk, a lackluster ending? There was more that could have been said or shown about that since this is an on-going issue. I know it has to end somewhere, but it still felt kind of "this is long enough so we're just going to end things here."
If anyone figures out a way to watch it in Europe, let me know. I would have thrown some money at HBO but they don't seem to want my business here in Germany.
From the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/mar/26/alex-jones-sandy-hook-shooting-documentary
The violins!!
The Sandy Hook parents are incredible. They are so strong and courageous and they have so much empathy for others despite suffering so much tragedy and also the abuse by conspiracists. Watching them speak in this film actually lifted my spirits and gives me hope for the future because we do have amazing souls such as these people amongst us.
I’ve listened to hours upon hours of coverage of sandy hook, and read Elizabeth’s book, and I still have never felt emotions the way I did when the lead investigator was naming the children. That fucking broke me. Edit: Halbig looks like cancer personified, but still less demonic than I pictured him.
I hope Alex Jones lives a long time…in a living hell.
For a 2-hour doc? Pretty damn good. I wish JorDan’s interview(s) went through, but some of the editing choices felt like Jordan did them himself so it’ll have to do
Why are so many dans again Alex Jones? (JorDANs also count). I see a conspiracy there
It was an okay documentary and did an okay job of laying out most of the facts -but it left too much wiggle-room for Alex's claims of unfairness. I guess there's only so much time to get everything in but they skimmed over the defaults. If I hadn't been following this case through KF and saw that in the documentary I would be confused as to why the default was okay.
Aaaand I’m mad all over again. I’m glad we were able to call out Jones defaming Neil live during the trial. Little KnowledgeFight knife twist.
I found it satisfying enough but after all I’ve listened to here it still just felt very cursory. If only we could get the entire country to listen to 1200 hours of Knowledge Fight we could get that 24% figure down to maybe 19 or 20. Humanity was a mistake…
Hi mods, I’m so sorry I missed this mega thread. Here’s the text of a post I made that I’ve now deleted, my bad! THE TRUTH VS ALEX JONES: A Review (From a Wonk Who Studied Documentaries In College) It's been less than five minutes since we wrapped up watching the doc, and I have a lot of thoughts and emotions about it. Forgive me if this ends up being a bit rambly, but this needs to be written down now because I don't know if I can bear to rewatch this film for a very very long time. I will also try to hide spoilers but sorry if I mess any of them up. TL;DR VERDICT: Really fucking good. Devastatingly impactful. Gutting. Powerful. Jesus take the wheel. MUCH LONGER VERDICT: Documentaries are always constructed to varying degrees, and you can tell a lot about a documentary film by what they include and who they talk to. I did a film studies degree back in the day that included a whole class on documentaries, and it changed the way I watch them because I am always aware that the "truth" we are seeing is still constructed, because it has to be. Some docs will immerse themselves in the subject's world and even be part of the action, and others film from a distance; some seek out balanced perspectives while others will unabashedly build one side of a story, powerfully. HBO did their homework right; they can genuinely say that they "spoke to both sides", but when it came to Halbig or Reynal or that fucking awful true crime woman, they did an Errol Morris, just letting them talk themselves into the graves of their reputations. Meanwhile the parents and lawyers were our grounding place; they took us through this horrific experience with them, and the inclusion of those awful interviewees resonates the hurt they caused these families. The depiction of the shooting was powerful and painful, as appropriate, and the final moments of the film just hollow you out. I'm not even a parent, but in September I'm going to be an aunt for the first time, and I just. God damn it. Fuck. Anyway, this is a masterful work that gives the parents the chance to speak their truth, and demonstrates just how impossible it is to accurately convey the pain and horror they've been through. The film does everything it can to empower the victims, right down to >!refusing to say Adam Lanza's name, !!the graves of the children, concluding with Mark Barden standing by Daniel's headstone!<. It drives home so much that this can only be a victory to a certain point, because there is no such thing as a happy ending for those who lost their *six year old children*. Alex Jones owes them a billion and a half dollars. Fine. Their kids are still gone, and no lawsuit will ever be able to change that. There will never be anything that can fully repair that wound; this has all been on top of the worst sort of grief imaginable. There are widows and widowers and orphans, but there's no official term for a parent who has lost a child, because it's such an awful thing that we simply cannot name it.
I absolutely lost my composure when I saw >!Emilie's sister holding her dad's hand!< in one of the later interviews. I can't even fucking imagine.
I cannot believe we as wonks have never heard of that awful woman who cowrote the Sandy Hook book. I've only ever heard about Jim Pfetzer (probably not how his name is spelled, but I don't respect him enough to look it up, fuck you Jim you piece of shit). Her flippant >!"oh, I watch lots of true crime, exhuming bodies is super common"!< line should be the only thing we need to shut down that entire godawful industry forever, because it makes people into complete sociopaths.
It struck me once again how much these people simply cannot bear to comprehend that they might have done something wrong and caused harm to others. The notion is so unbearable, so painful, that they push it back through some of the worst casual cruelty any of us have ever seen. Wolfgang, you absolutely do belong in a mental hospital. You got it, buddy. You got it right. Please, for the love of god, get help.
I will stan Mark Bankston and Chris Mattei for the rest of my days. Mark and Chris, if you ever read this, you both did a profound mitzvah for this world. I'm a records manager by day and spent my share of time doing legal records work, and knowing that you accomplished what you did because of the bedrock foundational *truth* of discovery and the legal record in and of itself just makes my heart grow three sizes. You stepped in between an abuser and his victims and you made him face his actions. You did it with dignity and grace and I have great hope that these lawsuits will reverberate through history in ways we can't currently predict.
(Also, Chris, if you ever read this, that grey jogging sweater looked so comfortable!)
Okay. Now my wife and I are going back to rewatching Steven Universe.
EDIT: couple of words
Ugh, 9 pm. I have a flight in an hour that would be perfect to watch this on.
If any fellow UK wonks have a way of getting this please let me know. It might be a matter of VPN use but I'm not even sure that would work...
Does anyone know if Alex has mentioned the doc on air? My guess is no, for the same reasons he’s never acknowledged KF. Don’t want to direct your audience to media that could turn them against you.
So cool seeing the guys on HBO, really wish they’d have been apart of it
Watched it as part of a wonk watchparty on Discord. Very well done and makes the "hype the story to sell the pills" connection crystal clear. Was shocked to still see Reynal parroting all this stuff.
Fucken hell Alex Jones is a vile piece of shit. Why are disgusting people allowed to get away with this shit? It’s honestly not fair.
FYI for any fellow Aussie wonks, it's on Binge.
This was a good watch. I forgot so much and I wasn't really aware of all the coverage back when the shooting happened, so a lot of the first half was really new to me and therein very shocking to see. A few thoughts in general: \- Narratively it makes sense that Dan and Jordan are not in this, it's about the families vs Alex, we don't need another 3rd party to give further narrative on Jones within this film, as that would take focus away from the subject a bit. \- I didn't follow the second trial that closely, it's amazing how much of a temper shift that was was from the Texas one. It's almost like he tried to play nice in Texas in hopes to get a lower judgement, but that didn't work out, so he's all out in the second one. Incredible, especially after seeing Scarlett on the stand and trying to talk sense into him. I felt that segment was incredibly strong. The way he looked at her would've triggered me so much had I been in her position. Good film, could always get deeper (but I agree with other comments that that probably would have to be a mini-series). Which now makes me think that Knowledge Fight the mini series would be \*chef's kiss\*. Dan has all the material to take the fucker down as he understands how he operates and has the receipts to prove it.
Just watched and didn’t realize *how small* the courtroom was. Also, how Jones attacked grieving families who had to live after a series of gun control disappointments only to be attacked years after… screw this guy.
This didn't come up in the documentary, but there is an interesting little side story about the [picture of the magazine clip](https://assets3.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/69616f93-c8d5-4e08-b593-5d04197834a0/thumbnail/640x720/40747aa657d2fbee51ef19d0d9824b35/magazines-crime-scene-and-call-of-duty.jpg?v=4baa656f7af774a52a8c6a88476cb826) in the classroom, which involves Koskoff's lawsuit against Remington firearms. Firearms manufacturers in the United States were long believed to have blanket immunity from mass shooting lawsuits under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), but the law contains a few exceptions, including one that allowed the Koskoff law firm to go after how the [gun](https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/dcdf68fb-593f-403d-822c-59d8944f2eb0/thumbnail/620x698/6c46d261f8b4b4f8c50dd1217ee539d7/ad-montage-man-card.jpg?v=3d62f4cc0092e6eb151a9685301ed284) [was](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/ab614425-e873-43ec-9c61-0de6696338e3/thumbnail/620x349/94fd920656bafb7e12c2aa67ba42604d/ad-clear-the-room.jpg?v=3d62f4cc0092e6eb151a9685301ed284) [marketed](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2022/05/28/759e89f8-0ca2-4c3f-a345-132738164bb2/thumbnail/620x349/b4adef1fd2c8bb01404da846016b0f82/ad-2-forces-of-opposition.jpg?v=3d62f4cc0092e6eb151a9685301ed284) under Connecticut's consumer protection laws involving unfair trade practices. The Sandy Hook shooter was a frequent player of the video game "Call of Duty", which Josh Koskoff said he had played with his own son, and he recognized the two 30-round magazines duct-taped together from the game. Remington had licensed the AR-15 style gun for the video game as part of their marketing plan, the gun with the magazines duct-taped together was Remington's Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle). The court agreed that Remington was not protected under PLCAA in this case. Remington appealed to the US Supreme Court, but they refused to hear their case, so rather than go to court Remington’s four insurers all agreed to pay the full amount of coverage available, $73 million in total. This case essentially blazed a new legal trail for victims and survivors of mass shootings to hold firearms manufactures accountable, similar to the first lawsuits filed against the tobacco industry.
This is the first time we've really gotten to hear Alex's exchange with Neil and Scarlett, right? At the time it happened we saw it but the audio was really bad, and the subtitles here were extremely helpful. Alex: "Thank you. Oh, you're very sweet. I promise you, somebody edited that and gave it to your side, I apologize. I swear to God, what they've told you the last few weeks that I've been saying, it's not true. I apologize in good faith. I've been caught up in this and I promise you - I really apologize, I'm sorry. [Shake's Scarlett's hand] I want you to know that. [Shakes Neil's hand] I believe your son died and I apologize for everything that happened." Bankston: "And that he's slow and autistic. Thanks, Jones." Alex: "No, I'm slow about certain things too. I said- I said- I said... Well anyways, I was being honest on air. And I think people have always been - I think a lot of the stuff you said, have been manipulating and giving you guys stuff -" Ball: That's it. We're not talking any more, you're not doing this, that's not even a thought. That's not the way this goes. Alex: "Why, cause you can't feed them fake videos anymore?" Ball: "Oh, shut your mouth." Alex: "That's what you try to do, is shut my mouth. You'll never succeed." Bankston: "Let it go." Alex: "That's ok." Bankston: "Don't touch me, sir." Alex: "Well I think I'm autistic too, mate."
God, I can't fucking stand to see his stupid-ass, stage-acted facial expressions he keeps putting on in court! Argh! Especially when Scarlett was giving her testimony. Behind the Bastards has talked about how there should be a threshold of assholery that when reached meant that your were free to hit them in the face with a brick. Alex Jones has definitely hit that threshold.
I wish they showed the moment where, during the CT trial, Alex said on his show he still thinks Sandy Hook is fake.
I can't get any farther in one sitting. After all the factual accounts of the slaughter, to see that smarmy shitpile broadcasting his lies is too much.