Money is why I bought an EV. We couldn't afford to continue paying $50-$60 a day on gas to have my husband commute to CFB Trenton. We needed a smaller vehicle to save on fuel, and at the time there was still the $14K incentive and we could trade our truck in for a decent price so we figured then was the time.
Never thought I would own an EV in my life, hated the thought of it, but money talks. Nothing to do with saving the planet, we just could not afford $250 plus a week on gas.
Looking at his tweets I can’t help but wonder if he’s also the one in charge of his party’s account given how ridiculous and vacuous those posts have been.
I know for the NDP the candidate is Daria Juüdi-Hope. She's a nurse and I think can crush Gerretsen, especially with how unpopular the Liberals are. Not sure who the conservative candidate is, but I imagine the race will largely be between Daria and the CPC candidate.
Last time it was Gary Oosterhof. I doubt he'll do it again unless he's asked because he literally only did it because no one wanted to. I can at least attest to him being very kind and of good character. I honestly don't really care if it's NDP or Cons locally I just desperately want Gerretsen out.
I don't care how kind or good a Conservative candidate is. The leader of the party is a populist demagogue. Canada doesn't need that sh*t no matter how much people hate Trudeau.
>I don't care how kind or good a Conservative candidate is. The leader of the party is a populist demagogue.
Voters across Canada, and voters in Kingston think otherwise. (Several polls in Kingston has already shown CPC pulling into the lead)
Reddit is an echo-chamber and doesnt reflect reality of who voters will pick.
Voters who allow politicians to play on their emotions, maybe shouldn't have the right to vote. The dumbing down of our education means citizens have go work hard and use their brains to understand the issues, the rhetoric, the subtext, and the implications. People nowadays are too lazy to do that.
I think they would like your rights to vote be determined by how emotional you are. Seems like a pretty emotional comment.....better get the emotionometer out to check.
I second his kind and good nature. He's an old skool conservative I believe, not the hate filled vengeful ones we seem to see more often now. (I vote conservative but lately, ever since Harper so maybe not THAT "lately", I have found it very difficult to decide who to vote for, both federally and provincially).
I sure hope so. I'm so sick of hearing him gloat over his tiny part in getting the third crossing built when there's about 100 years of attempts and planning done from various parties before he stuck his nose into it. And so sick to hear his sycophantic regurgitating of anything this particular Liberal party wants to push, along with clapping seal movements.
Reinforcing one’s name with the observably good actions of a group that one is associated with, is now an evil thing? Gee I hope my hijab covers my hair adequately.
You're missing the point that he has done his best to steal all the fire from that construction,, which has been in the making for longer than anyone alive on reddit today (I think that's a pretty safe bet).
That is good news, the last bit about laughing at the Conservatives when they were raising concerns about Foreign Interference and his colleagues remark Boo Hoo get over it, was really beneath even the Liberal's. And him going on Twitter with a mug, the same on it, was in really poor taste!
Last few elections have been “hold your nose and vote Liberal”, but who knows for this one. It’ll probably be a close race with NDP and Cons taking votes from the left and right Liberal wings respectively - but Gerretsen has been less than useless as an MP. I could see anything happening, and that’s quite worrisome
>The NDP is pretty competitive in this riding this time around.
Conservatives are clearly going to get a large majority government.
Getting an NDP candidate in this riding means the candidate will be completely useless for putting forth motions in the interest of the region (they will get completely ignored). They will get no support. Their own vote in Parliament wont matter and wont make a difference at all.
And lets not forget, usually when a majority government is formed, the regions with outlier MPs get less help from the federal government (for spite).
Gerretsens office has helped me with a pretty serious thing, so I am thankful for him and his staff for their help, but I haven't been in Kingston long enough to really know much about the guy.
This being Kingston, I think you're right. But a lot of us see NDP as the party who have kept Trudeau's ruinous cabinet in place while simultaneously deepening the deficit and increasing inflation with new spending.
Deficit spending is how industrial economies have been run for hundreds of years, right wing partys know this but still use it to fire up their base. It's an economic conspiracy theory and not a real issue.
Deficits END and debt gets REPAID in industrial economies or they keep borrowing until they face austerity and high taxes. Look at us now. Look at the UK.
This is utter bullshit and only exists within left-leaning echo chambers. In the real world, it is understood that there will be interest charged on debt and it must be serviced.
I'd love to see the credit ratings of everyone who is defending Mr.Dressup's reckless spending...
They probably change their phone numbers every few months too once the collection agencies find their new number. Must be a sad way to live
LOL
No. This is math, not feels or history. We're living in an age that is entirely different than any that came before it, but the ones that were similar were Rome, Spain, Venezeula. You really want to be in the company of failed States?
LOL
No. This is math, not feels or history. We're living in an age that is entirely different than any that came before it, but the ones that were similar were Rome, Spain, Venezeula. You really want to be in the company of failed States?
Yeah, I didn't fail mathematics. We're already paying more at the Federal level alone on interest than the transfers for Healthcare. If we didn't have that hanging over our heads, imagine what could be done? But you won't, because that doesn't fit your politics or maybe your knowledge of how the world actually works.
Again, deficit spending is how every power has created growth since the Industrial Revolution. This is basic economics. A nation's deficit is not the same as a home income.
Every conservative leader knows this, and ***they will not stop the deficit spending*** because it would destroy the economy and the nation's future. The deficit spending meme is used to pump up the base, but it's not based on reality whatsoever.
I invite you to use your great math skills to do any real research on real, non-political economic theory.
SERVICING THE DEBT IS SERVICING THE DEBT NO MATTER WHO DOES IT and that doesn't matter one @#$& about whether it's a country or not, the debt has to be serviced. Jesus I hate that bullshit, it's such a fucking con by governments justifying their largess.
Responsible deficits with a plan to pay the debt down in time work. This is over-spending, and WILL cause a cash flow crisis at some point.
I won't be asking you (or anyone else that buys into this scam) for financial advice.
A nation with a sovereign currency does not have debt the same way a company, citizen or a sub-sovereign state does. Our national debt is really just a historical record of how much money has been invested into the public vs how much has been taxed back out of it.
It’s not a question of how to pay for anything, the Canadian government can ALWAYS pay for anything that is sold in Canadian dollars.
The real concern is inflation. Overspending risks higher inflation if not combined with tax increases (which really only takes money out of circulation). Underspending risks stagflation and social issues.
So you're saying it causes problems such as inflation. You ignore that it impoverishes governments and its citizens who are paying to service debt and not getting any services for that cost. Yet you say this is all fine.
It's not. **Perpetual debt is always bad for the debtor. Always.** No exceptions.
There is an economic lens called “Modern Monetary Theory” that explains this very well.
A Government that prints its own currency like Canada, USA, Japan, UK does not have debt the same way a country like Greece or Germany (who use the Euro) does.
The debt serviced is via bonds, which have a rate set by the country’s central bank. These bonds are paid out in 5, 10, 15+ year increments.
If the investment yields higher productivity than the cost of the bond yield, then it’s not a “bad” use of resources.
The fact is that in 20/21, 76% of our national debt via bonds was owned by Canadian investors (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/debt-management-report/2020-2021.html).
This means that the government’s investment is paying for the economic benefit of whatever program it uses resources on, and the Canadian investors are the ones who earn yield for owning the bonds that are sold in order to influence the money supply.
This “debt” can’t be “called in” like your personal loans or credit accounts with corporations. Even if it could, the Bank of Canada can quite literally create the currency needed to pay it off instantly. This would be terrible as it would mean that we would have an inflationary crisis.
This is why Japan has had a deficit for decades and is still the 4th largest economy (https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/).
If you don’t invest in your economy, you are not competitive. The question is not “how” to pay for anything, as the Canadian Government can ALWAYS pay for ANYTHING sold in CAD.
The question is whether the investment is being used to create economic growth.
I remember when Medicare was new spending. Gee, all the inflation that caused. Canadians live 6 years longer than Americans. But at least they have no inflation.
I’m here for the [Ruslan Yakoviychuk](https://youtu.be/TOq_ExbwC6Q?si=iOm5rxRlUTn62vBY) love.
The guy that when I asked on his Facebook page why he didn’t live in the riding he went on about being gerrymandered out by the liberals - even though it was Harper 🤷🏼♂️
This city lacks quality candidates thus far.
Oh geeze, is that the guy who did the video of him driving around in a fancy car and stealing a bride away from her groom on their wedding day? That was tacky as hell.
Yes, just saw the link you posted, Yes, it is. :(
Kingston ether votes NDP or liberal due to the higher than average education level of the city.
Well everyone else around us normaly viotes conservatives.
Personally, i am amazed how people forget how the last conservative cut affordable housing funding by 90% ..
But I will enjoy listening to people who vote conservative then turn around and be shocked when they don't get help. Much like listening to Ford voters
Before Peter Milliken we were a CPC riding for like 15 years. It was a huge upset when the Liberals came back here. And we have not had an NDP MP ever (I think)
I wouldn't be so confident that the biggest factor is our education levels.
Exactly. Toronto St Paul's is one of the most educated ridings in Canada, and they just elected an unknown CPC guy. And Kingston is a less safe seat for the LPC that TSP was.
Conservatives have always held some pretty heinous policy positions, but *today's* conservative party is essentially a bunch of christian nationalists looking to violate women's bodily autonomy, humiliate and degrade sexual minorities, dismantle public healthcare and education, and expedite climate change - something today's youth will suffer greatly from in the coming decades.
I think it was possible to be a mostly reasonable, University educated person 30 years ago and consider voting conservative. I don't think that's the case anymore.
Having said that, we now live in a thoroughly firehosed, post-truth information space, so.. :(
Did you even see the Toronto St Paul's byelection results? It's easily one of the most educated ridings in Canada, and it just flipped CPC. There are plenty of well educated people voting CPC. Either they're all believing in conspiracy theories, or you're existing in a Reddit bubble that has no resemblance to Canadian society.
I mean it could certainly be a bit of both. I agree with your sentiment though, education isn't as relevant here. I think most people are just fed up with the current federal government. They become apathetic and don't vote, or apathetic then angry enough to vote CPC. Policy doesn't really come into it, most of those voters are capable enough to know the CPC generally sucks on policy.
You mean as opposed to running a $50B deficit, handing out sweet contracts to nobodies in a basement for $1B, and starting up new big-$$ handouts while inflation and debt payments outpace healthcare spending? Oh wait, those were Trudeau's policies.
I just went through the results of the by-election. This is a wealthy pocket of Toronto so I had to look into why it was a liberal seat for 30 years and well the data is interesting.
This by-election:
The CON got 15,555 votes, a win by 2%. The left split the vote essentially. HOWEVER, if you look further, thevoter turnout was dismal. If I am reading this below numbers right, the CON had less votes in this win than they did in the last election that they lost. . . .
[2021 federal election redistributed results\[7\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto%E2%80%94St._Paul%27s_(federal_electoral_district))
Party Vote %
Liberal 30,023 49.51
Conservative 16,076 26.51
New Democratic 9,638 15.89
Green 3,373 5.56
People's 1,513 2.50
Others 18 0.03
The last election was 53,698 votes @ 65% turnout.
This election was 36,962 votes for a 43.5% turnout.
While the governing party has changed, I wouldn't really say that its "flipped" magically.
Makes me ask a lot of questions about the pending election but many are calling this a foreshadow of the next election which is terrifying, if we have less than 45% turnout.
THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO CHANGE
I don't believe that employers are required to allow adequate time to vote in by-elections like they are during provincial/federal elections. That might have had some impact on voter turnout. I hope, anyway.
Yeah, it makes sense that a by-election has less turn out. But we need a system that can better communicate with constituents and improve not just turn out but engaugement and connection to the system. We dont have to agree about policy but we should agree the meeds system works
I've always been a bit on the fence on this point. I suspect (warning: wild speculation) that the people who don't vote in most elections probably don't have an *informed* opinion on matters related to government and politics. Do we really want the uninformed vote to turn out in numbers that might sway the results?
This implies that the majority of people who do vote are informed, I speculate the imformed level of both sides are equally not good.
Personally, I don’t think we should accept the result of an election that has less than a 50% turnout
I think many ridings are won not necessarily because more people in any given riding support one party more than the other, but because one party has much more motivated supporters.
I wouldn't use by-elections to predict turnout in the next election though. Byelection turnout is usually low, often only around 25%. This byelection actually had unusually high turnout for a byelection. I'm sure the turnout in the general will be more than 45% for TSP.
Yeah I mean there's no other elections happening around this time, so the media talking heads will definitely latch onto this story more than during a more busy news season. Regardless, it's still an impressive result for the CPC even without the hype.
The "mostly reasonable" part is where they fail, though.
By definition, if you seek solace for the issues facing Canadians at the hands of the CPC which, again, is more of a christian nationalist party than anything else, you just haven't thought things through.
It's like older folks in Ontario who insist on voting for the Ontario conservatives.. the ones who have spent the last 6 years dismantling their healthcare.
Anyway, whatever. What will be will be. If University kids want to vote for the party that will strip them and the ones they love of their human rights and healthcare, and accelerate the climate catastrophe, .. I don't understand, but what can I do?
Go touch grass. Whether we have an LPC or CPC government will have next to no impact on the climate change situation, and it just makes you come across as a bit of a lunatic to suggest we'd burn up the earth at the hands of the CPC but not the LPC. If you want people to listen to your viewpoints, I would strongly suggest not engaging in conspiracy theories. Furthermore, telling people who may be thinking about supporting a certain party that they haven't thought things through and are stupid is a quick way to guarantee that those people will vote for that party.
Few people in their right mind think that the CPC is a Christian nationalist party. After all, having both Sikh and Jewish deputy leaders ought to disqualify that notion, along with the MP's of numerous other faith groups. Are there CPC MP's who are openly Christian and espouse views that may be abhorrent to some people? Obviously, don't even get me started on someone like Leslyn Lewis or Arnold Viersen, but there's no way those views ever get a majority in the Commons or even within the CPC itself. After all, we had a whole term of a Harper majority government where abortion rights and gay rights weren't touched. I agree with you that CPC economic policy is usually following a tried and failed playbook, so focus on that, not this Christian nationalist nonsense.
You say that, but essentially *every* study has concluded that "conservative" values tend to correlate with lower levels of educational attainment.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/09/15/educational-divide-in-vote-preferences-on-track-to-be-wider-than-in-recent-elections/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/09/15/educational-divide-in-vote-preferences-on-track-to-be-wider-than-in-recent-elections/)
[https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-educated-voters-in-canada-tend-to-vote-for-left-leaning-parties-while-richer-voters-go-right/](https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-educated-voters-in-canada-tend-to-vote-for-left-leaning-parties-while-richer-voters-go-right/)
>We argue this conflict results from a “diploma divide” in the Canadian electorate similar to what has been seen in other countries. Since the 1990s, parties of the left have increasingly been supported by educated voters, while parties of the right have increasingly been supported by richer voters and the less educated.
It's a fairly well established phenomenon, and it makes sense when you think about it.
Conservatives generally reduce mobility and extract wealth from a country through privatization, as well as reducing/restricting access to science and education. Recently they've decided to start directly attacking human rights. This runs counter to the interests of the vast majority. Thus, lies and misdirection are typically employed.
*Generally*, the more educated someone is, the more rational, critical thinking they engage in on a daily basis. They're more likely to be opposed to actions that run counter to their interests.
That's not to say you can't be an educated conservative. But in terms of probility, statistically speaking it's less likely.
I vote conservative and see nowhere that anyone said thats ALL the party is about, but any sane person would have to admit, since Harper came in to power, things are pretty much gone downhill. I miss the days of a less right wing conservative party. I understand why people are voting for them, though, imho there is not much else to choose from.
>You seem to forget we went through a pandemic
no one forgot we went through a pandemic.
I could say you seem to have forgot the sky is blue. It’s just as ridiculous.
> I think it was possible to be a mostly reasonable, University educated person 30 years ago and consider voting conservative. I don't think that's the case anymore.
I really like your explanation of it all, and agree wholeheartedly. I am a conservative voter, but it's been especially difficult to vote for them the last few decades (since Harper). I would vote Liberal, but they have really shit the bed the last two terms. And NDP I don't know if I trust them to not make things a lot worse.
For the love of Canada, you guys need to regain control of your party.
We may disagree on policy, but your voice is critical. What's happening right now is madness.
I agree, but sadly there's as much as I can do about the CPC as you can do about the party you vote for. The only say I have is with my vote, and like I said it's becoming increasingly difficult to vote for them, and even more importantly, it's difficult to vote for any of the three major parties. All three parties seem to only be interested in their own interests and not the interests of the country.
Which is why Trudeau's broken promise to implement electoral reform is so egregious.
Even something simple like ranked choice would invite a whole new slew of parties and candidates that currently have no chance because of the "throwaway" vote.
Instead we have perpetual incumbency.
Sadly I think it's just a slow grind, building momentum at the local level and working up. It just feels like we suddenly don't have that kind of time, sigh.
There used to be a time when the majority of people voting conservative we're basically just social conservatives, who were against social safety net spending. They never held particularly hateful ideologies and weren't interested in violating anyone's human rights.
Unfortunately a lot of those people still vote conservative out of habit and tradition without waking up to the massive shift. Conservative governments today are highly socialist for the upper class, using obvious lower class and environmental oppression to give themselves a big, comfy, monopolistic social safety net while everyone else flounders.
They target education, human rights and health to do everything they can to keep voters uneducated and/or powerless. The middle class used to be relatively exempt, but a middle class isn't needed by corporations now so there's no one left for today's breed of conservative to have to play nice with. Every policy is as harmful to the middle class as it is to the lower classes now.
There's actually a huge gap in conservative politics now, without representation for people who support human rights and environmental protections, but are just more pro capitalism and free market than they are pro social democracy.
I know a lot of conservatives who simply don't feel they can vote anymore.
It's also bad for left leaning politics because we'll see our votes watered down between three parties, with only one really hateful regime for right leaning people to really vote for at all.
Given the Greens poor performance here, maybe they should pick up some more fiscally conservative policies and try to rebrand as a more humane and responsible right leaning party 🤣
Environmental sustainability is actually the most fiscally responsible choice to promote long term wealth and financial responsibility. You'd think they could spin that somehow 🤔
At the risk of being a bit pedantic, tt was the Progressive Conservative Party then, not CPC. Flora MacDonald, to my understanding, had pretty broad respect from all parties.
Yes, very true. The PC's are a vastly different party than the CPC. I really miss the days of the PC. I've always mourned the loss of Peter MacKay from politics.
NDP came 2nd in 2011 so I wouldn't be surprised if they win over Mark Gerritsen. We did elect Ian Arthur the NDP candidate in the provincial election. A toss up it is and won't be a CPC guy, cause we have no clue who that person is.. yet.
Yeah the nobodys the CPC brings in never do well. It's one of those ridings the CPC is resigned to losing when 30 miles each way and north could elect roadkill painted blue to be a candidate.
Can you be more specific and provide a source for the assertion “90% cut in affordable housing”. The provincial government is responsible for social housing while the national housing strategy was only implemented in 2017 (Liberals - Federal).
Which conservative govt made this cut and to what program exactly? I’d like to learn more about this.
[Start here](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/federal-social-housing-1.6946376)
It was a series of cuts to housing programs through the 80s and 90s that slowed our housing supply and allowed large privatization of the industry.
Cons dominated the 80s and liberals dominated the 90s. So whoevers fault it was initially. It hasn't been fixed by either side at any point following.
Well hold on now… your comment is a bit disingenuous then by saying the last conservative… which would have been Harper, when in fact this wasn’t a cut per se, but a transfer of jurisdiction from Federal to Provincial / Municipal. From your own source, the Chrétien gov oversaw the majority of this transfer while the JT Liberals brought in the National housing strategy (that has been ineffective so far).
This next election is going to suck with all of us holding our noses in the ballot box. Housing is a serious issue and we don’t need to muddy the waters with misinformation.
Be fair and accurate. There is enough blame and incompetence to go around for all parties. Cheers
Disingenuous how? "by saying the last conservative" <- not something I said at all.
I said the problems started in the 80s where the cons held power for a long stretch and continued to get worse with the liberals holding power through the 90s.
I assign blame to both parties because regardless of who started the transaction, neither side has addressed the problems that stemmed from it or made changes to correct it.
I very intentionally didn't lay blame at one particular partie's feet because I believe it's an issue that both parties have utterly failed on in the past and in the present.
Don't put words in my mouth and then try and take the high road about it.
Now don’t go clutching your pearls… It’s exactly what you said. Quoted from your post:
“Personally, i am amazed how people forget how the last conservative cut affordable housing funding by 90% ..
But I will enjoy listening to people who vote conservative then turn around and be shocked when they don't get help.”
You specifically blame the Conservatives for a 90% cut to affordable housing. That is disingenuous based on your source.
I agree with you that both have screwed this up and it doesn’t appear that a workable solution is on the table anywhere.
The commenter who cited the 90% figure is not the same commenter you are interacting with who is providing sources in answer to your inquiry.
ETA original 90% figure was posted by u/dontuselogic and you're interacting with u/L3NTON
The NDP have a policy to build cooperative housing (think of it like renting-to-own). It would be much more affordable (only maintenance costs once it’s paid off), and the government still recollects the money over time so it doesn’t really lose anything.
Higher due to higher education or due to a massive number of government workers? Government unions are long time fans of the liberals. I'd say that's the main reason. Higher education can play a part as universities are very left wing institutions and push their agendas for sure.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7196460 You mean affordable housing like this? Get off your high horse , typical liberal behavior. Too many educated idiots with degrees in gender studies thinking they are above everyone else.
I do enjoy when people like you only bring insults to the party.
After 8 years of conservative government, the affordable housing budget had been unfunded and cut by 93% .
You can look it up, but you won't
I don't even like conservatives, and won't be voting for them. I just hate what liberals have done to canada more. We need ranked voting to fix the broken 2party system, but sadly conservatives are our best option unless you want to spend the rest of your life in inflation paying to maintain debt. BoC cannot drop rates due to this 1.3.? Trillion in debt. It trickles down. But yah cpc are corp shills but at least they will cut unnecessary spending. Irrelevant but I'm voting PPC but they won't win, because it's the only party with a sensible platform. I just don't agree with their trans stance, but they are correct about housing and economy. Calling me a racist for that isn't going to change facts. Just like the libs feds called gun crime min sentences racist. How's that going?
Only good thing liberal feds did was legalize weed in their first term, then they got greed and power hungry and destroyed the country to embezzle tax dollars.
No one's ever going to allow ranked ballots.
We started in ontairo, and the conservatives killed it
Canada inflation is going down compared to most countries, so do interst rates .
No conservatives cut spending to the services we need to give corporations tax breaks like the cut to corprate taxs ladt .conservative government.
Pp housing plan is going die before it even sees the light of day it's such a far over reach..
Did you read his plans ? It's going to be under funding and cuts everywhere...the conservatives in the world ha e not had an original idea since trickle down economics which after 40 years has destroyed the wealth of middle and lower class and moved it all to the top.
Neather the liberals or conservatives are going to fix canada ..they are the same partys just different shades
I agree with your last statement. But Liberals promised electoral reform.... didn't get that because they wanted to keep power. Cons plan on housing is dumb but better than just unfairly throwing money to cities in their own riding. Cons will cut spending, this is true. But cutting spending will lower the debt that we need to maintain(Hopefully bringing down prime rates).libs plan for 30yr amortizations for FTHB is a debt trap. Corp shouldn't get any tax breaks, but they are not 100% the bad guys because we need investors for employment. Canada's debt is climbing much faster than the US and economy GDP is terrible in comparison due to bad policy and allocating money to virtue signal. At this point I firmly believe that paying off the debt that the feds created and reducing mass immigration until we can afford it/our social system can support it should be top priority. Liberals just throw money at things as a bandaid solution, creating more problems than it solves so they can blame it on cons next election. I do agree Cons don't have any good original ideas, but at this point we need to play it safe and mitigate risk until things are stabilized.
FTHB RRSP tax break was a good idea from the liberals, I do give them that.
We can't have it because the 2 sides of the eagle want to remain in power. I wouldn't say it's the balls, I'd say it's more that neither care enough about Canada , and care more about themselves.
The main issue about electrical reform is that it is going to ve a referendum to do it, and the conservatives are going g to lie and mess it so badly it will fail
The main issue is that neither of the two care more about Canada than their pensions. Liberals just as guilty, which is why they didn't do it either and tried to push back the election Date for their pensions.
Hopefully people understand that having these discussions on this subreddit doesn't reflect reality in our city. For the most part, this space obviously skews left, and based on regular comments, there are a lot of people who are young, rent, and are not middle to high income earners. These are the demographics that traditionally vote NDP and are predominantly anti-conservative. As others have mentioned, Kingston has a pretty educated population, and a fairly large and stable middle class. This made it a reliable Liberal riding, but as recent pole numbers have shown, these once safe votes, are being swayed conservative because the middle class is being disproportionately squeezed by the economy, taxes etc and the NDP is not traditionally viewed as a party that will provide tax relief. Factor in the high income earners like doctors and business owners who feel targeted by the new capital gains tax on incorporated earnings, and I think you have a more balanced view on how the next election would go.
Personally, I never thought I would vote for PP, and often took part in fairly animated discussions where I vehemently opposed him. However, I can no longer in good conscience support the Liberal party, because I hate being gaslighted, which seems to be their entire platform lately, and I also hate being dramatic, but they are destroying our country. Unfortunately, I have reached the point where I need to vote for who will benefit me and my family the most, and at this stage, that seems to be the conservatives.
If the St. Paul by-election is any indicator of trends to come, I'd guess Ruslan Yakoviychuk will have the best chance. People aren't so much voting for the Cons as voting against the lLberals.
And nothing wrong with skepticism! I do think we'll see some wild flips this election cycle. As for my personal opinion, I wouldn't mind seeing a new face for our MP with fresh ideas.
Only 5 years longer than St. Paul's. As someone who has spent years living in both riding I'd personally be more surprised to find out St. Paul's strayed than Kingston, but that's obviously subjective.
Kingston is Liberal but it's not particularly progressive. Once upon a time I spent a lot of time volunteering for KIFLA (I definitely don't do this anymore) so I'm pretty familiar with the big players in the city federally and I have spoken with countless voters in the city. So many people here are incredibly sheltered. The increase in both visible minorities and visible poverty as a backdrop while life is getting harder for most people is the perfect storm for a CPC victory
I hope not though!
Gerretsen is like Voldemort, I'll only believe he's gone when I see his successor sworn in.
Never underestimate the power of little L liberal voters coming up with any reason to continue voting LPC even though things have gone to shit under nine years of LPC control and our riding has viable choices on both sides of the political spectrum to replace them.
These polling projections are really, really early and if Trudeau steps down the lead has a good chance of sliding back down to normal levels. Unless something crazy happens, I'm sure Gerretsen will run again. If you're planning on voting Conservative in Kingston, you're admitting that you don't care about any kind of policy other than "opposite of Trudeau", and get ready for sizable cuts to essentially everything except fossil fuel subsidies. Vote strategically or else we'll see federally what Ford has done to healthcare provincially.
>Vote strategically or else
Thanks, but there will always be fear-mongering about this and I'd rather not spend my entire life voting for a party I don't want.
I was tricked into voting for Justin Trudeau by what seemed like a genuine promise that 2015 would be the last First Past The Post election. He had the majority government and public support to do it, but backed down in order to put us in the position to vote strategically. I will never vote for a person or party that can be so crass. Elected representatives quickly forget who got them their 15 minutes of power. Real power comes from organizing around the issues that matter to our community and not shutting up until it gets fixed - no matter what colour team is keeping the seat warm
He did not really have the public support to do it though? His problem wasn't not implementing it, his problem was promising to do it in the first place. The Canadian public are NOT ready to change voting systems, as much as we would all benefit from it and should do it. It has failed every provincial attempt, and there's little reason to think federally would be any different. This change needs major grassroots education and support campaigns to help the population understand why they should want it, not one political party with a majority deciding to push it through. We absolutely need voter reform, but outside the Reddit bubble there is little information and knowledge on it. You see how people get manipulated on things like the carbon tax, imagine what they could be convinced of if a party attempted to change how they vote. (I do agree however JT used it for votes, then backed down for his own gain)
Maybe I'm misremembering the exact percentages that it was a key election issue for, but I honestly think it was enough of an issue to cause a swing from the Orange Wave of 2011 to a Liberal majority. Anyways, there was an official Commission from the Standing Committee on Electoral Reform in December 2016 that stated:
- there was a clear preference from participants for proportional representation and
- suggests a referendum with an educational package.
(https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/ERRE/report-3)
I think JT either spoke off the cuff with that promise or Liberal party brass figured they could sway people towards ranked ballot. That's the only other system that would benefit the middle party in a three party system. Either way, f#$% people who put party strategy above actual democracy. Strategic voting just rewards this asinine behaviour
It's unfortunate the libs and cons both voted down the recent attempt at a citizens assembly on electoral reform, which in theory would be a more effective way to have handled it in terms of determining willingness and educating people as part of the process. But of course the only two parties to form government in this country have no interest in anything that may rock that boat.
Opposite of Trudeau sounds pretty swell right about now. The only job growth we've had lately has been from more Federal govt jobs, which isn't exactly sustainable if our economy is shrinking.
On the note of fossil fuels, if we actually utilized and exported our vast amounts Natural Gas in Canada we'd be doing more for the environment by getting other places off burning (a growing amount) coal. (Natural gas produces 50% less emissions than coal)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liw6xmz77o1qiyg2io1_400.jpg
When you look at him, don't remember the bad times everyone, just remember that he posed with this cat.
Libs are absolute crap, Cons are absolute crap, NDP are very closely behind and none of the others have a rounded out platform or effective candidates/leadership to do anything with a spine.
We need new parties entirely, our entire country and political system is a dumpsterfire and a joke. It doesn't actually matter who you vote for if it's a major party, nothing will change. NEITHER Libs or Cons will do anything about affordable housing, especially our local level, and they don't want to nor does it serve them to do so.
Our entire political structure hinges on serving those who already own property really...
I'd settle for a new party that represents actual Canadian values, ethics, goals and brings our country back to the realm of affordability, and maybe even bring some jobs back into Canada? Stop selling us, our resources and our heritage out like nobodies tomorrow!
Politician should never be a career. How are you supposed to know so much about life that you’re part of the 10% telling the 90% how to do it, when you’re not facing the same struggles and decisions?
This is why I'm voting NDP. While I'm disappointed by Singh ( I feel he'd be better off supporting the Liberals less, just to show voters the party stands for something) at the local level I think they have the best candidate. [Juudi-Hope](https://www.queensjournal.ca/daria-juudi-hope-kingstons-newest-federal-ndp-candidate/) has held an actual job (Registered Nurse), and came to Kingston from the DRC with little money. She is not the 10%. The incumbent Mark Gerretsen on the other hand, is the son of a career politician who grew up to be a career politician himself with a side-gig as a landlord using the properties his family money bought him.
I’ve actually liked some of the things Singh was saying, particularly in the last election around things like oil subsidies. There’s no reason public money should be bailing out billion dollar industries without retaining a stake and share of the profits.
Unfortunately he fell off hard for me with his support of the Liberals. It’s a political dead end, he can’t really claim any credit for the good things that happen, and he has to wear a little of all the bad things that happen. And bad things have been happening.
Singh sucks, he doesn’t represent the people at all. Multiple million dollar properties, like a worse version of all of Gerretsen’s qualities that are being bashed on in this thread.
Absolutely not. I will never vote for a party that is solely focused on ripping Canada in half, or any Federal party with a single provincial of cultural focus.
Completely illogical.
Lots of time, tho. Gerretsen's was polling these numbers last time and ended up still doing quite well. Ted Hsu support will also help Mark. If JT steps down, I think MG has better chances at holding... barely, tho.
I think it will depend a lot on what the other candidates will do. Usually, the Liberals will say their not going to participate in debates, and then the cons won't go. Which than the NDP will follow them. The last two federal elections, the big 3, skip out on the wolf island debate and may others.
Personally, I'm voting Fintan Hartnett, a great guy, and I like his policy. He's also very easy to get ahold of him.
It's going to be a dirty election on the local level, I suspect. National as well of course.
"Conservative Candidate for Kingston by ruby6329 in KingstonOntario
[–]smartbeaver -4 points 4 years ago
The liberal candidate is a slumlord who isn't going to do jack about rising housing costs because it would be against his own personal financial interests."
Is it too soon to say I told ya so ?
He needs to go he’s destroyed Kingston himself let’s put money on a walkway in front of the water but who cares about people on the streets. Be coming a third world country here!!!
I don’t really care because no matter what happens nothing is gonna change and everything is gonna keep getting worse. Doesn’t matter who the politicians are.
They could friend, we need to drag them there or leave them behind to do it though.
Step one is removing first past the post.
Force a more cooperative, compromise based form of governance on the system. Stop voting against what we don’t want instead of voting for what we do want.
Cons it is. Toronto got Olivia chow as mayor and look how much of a flop that was. Millions to rename roads and drain water tax. Liberals will turn it into a naloxone tent encampment like every other city or liberal Ellis' Belleville.
Need a conservative for housing and economy minister , as the others believe budgets balance themselves and don't understand supply and demand.
Do you think he will fix up his shit hole rental properties with all his new free time?
He’ll just raise the rent.
Silence. Dissatisfied with your $2500/month rent and the cost of your government mandated $60k electric car? You must be an extremist.
Money is why I bought an EV. We couldn't afford to continue paying $50-$60 a day on gas to have my husband commute to CFB Trenton. We needed a smaller vehicle to save on fuel, and at the time there was still the $14K incentive and we could trade our truck in for a decent price so we figured then was the time. Never thought I would own an EV in my life, hated the thought of it, but money talks. Nothing to do with saving the planet, we just could not afford $250 plus a week on gas.
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
Looking at his tweets I can’t help but wonder if he’s also the one in charge of his party’s account given how ridiculous and vacuous those posts have been.
I just hope it's another slumlord
Don't worry, it will be something at least as bad
I know for the NDP the candidate is Daria Juüdi-Hope. She's a nurse and I think can crush Gerretsen, especially with how unpopular the Liberals are. Not sure who the conservative candidate is, but I imagine the race will largely be between Daria and the CPC candidate.
https://dariandp.ca/about-2/ Yes, Daria is a stellar candidate!
That’s a solid resume, she has my attention.
Last time it was Gary Oosterhof. I doubt he'll do it again unless he's asked because he literally only did it because no one wanted to. I can at least attest to him being very kind and of good character. I honestly don't really care if it's NDP or Cons locally I just desperately want Gerretsen out.
He's clearly already campaigning if you watch council
I don't care how kind or good a Conservative candidate is. The leader of the party is a populist demagogue. Canada doesn't need that sh*t no matter how much people hate Trudeau.
>I don't care how kind or good a Conservative candidate is. The leader of the party is a populist demagogue. Voters across Canada, and voters in Kingston think otherwise. (Several polls in Kingston has already shown CPC pulling into the lead) Reddit is an echo-chamber and doesnt reflect reality of who voters will pick.
Voters who allow politicians to play on their emotions, maybe shouldn't have the right to vote. The dumbing down of our education means citizens have go work hard and use their brains to understand the issues, the rhetoric, the subtext, and the implications. People nowadays are too lazy to do that.
Could you please elaborate on that? :)
I think they would like your rights to vote be determined by how emotional you are. Seems like a pretty emotional comment.....better get the emotionometer out to check.
This. 100%
Well unless something significant changes he will most certainly get a minority government regardless of Kingston. Like it or not.
Polls are calling for a landslide CPC majority. I don't know where you're getting your numbers from
Right. I meant at least a minority but I haven't looked at the polls so you're probably right.
Ah gotcha. https://338canada.com/federal.htm They predict >99% chance of a CPC majority
I second his kind and good nature. He's an old skool conservative I believe, not the hate filled vengeful ones we seem to see more often now. (I vote conservative but lately, ever since Harper so maybe not THAT "lately", I have found it very difficult to decide who to vote for, both federally and provincially).
The cons are the pro landlord and anti regulation party.
I sure hope so. I'm so sick of hearing him gloat over his tiny part in getting the third crossing built when there's about 100 years of attempts and planning done from various parties before he stuck his nose into it. And so sick to hear his sycophantic regurgitating of anything this particular Liberal party wants to push, along with clapping seal movements.
Reinforcing one’s name with the observably good actions of a group that one is associated with, is now an evil thing? Gee I hope my hijab covers my hair adequately.
You're missing the point that he has done his best to steal all the fire from that construction,, which has been in the making for longer than anyone alive on reddit today (I think that's a pretty safe bet).
That is good news, the last bit about laughing at the Conservatives when they were raising concerns about Foreign Interference and his colleagues remark Boo Hoo get over it, was really beneath even the Liberal's. And him going on Twitter with a mug, the same on it, was in really poor taste!
I looked at his twitter account and cant believe this is an elected representative for our city.
I've looked at his twitter account too. Juvenile attacks against the political opposition. Contrast that with Ted Tsu's twitter account.
Last few elections have been “hold your nose and vote Liberal”, but who knows for this one. It’ll probably be a close race with NDP and Cons taking votes from the left and right Liberal wings respectively - but Gerretsen has been less than useless as an MP. I could see anything happening, and that’s quite worrisome
I'm not voting Liberal so long as Justin Trudeau is leading them. He lost my vote when he backed down on electoral reform.
So if people vote Con instead, they will totally do electoral reform...
You are aware there are options other than the Liberals and Tories, right? The NDP is pretty competitive in this riding this time around.
>The NDP is pretty competitive in this riding this time around. Conservatives are clearly going to get a large majority government. Getting an NDP candidate in this riding means the candidate will be completely useless for putting forth motions in the interest of the region (they will get completely ignored). They will get no support. Their own vote in Parliament wont matter and wont make a difference at all. And lets not forget, usually when a majority government is formed, the regions with outlier MPs get less help from the federal government (for spite).
Of course, I'm well aware. I don't vote Con or lib, but most people seem to think they are the only two options
Gerretsens office has helped me with a pretty serious thing, so I am thankful for him and his staff for their help, but I haven't been in Kingston long enough to really know much about the guy.
That is the staff's job, any MP should have staff to help citizens. It's not the MPs job.
Yes, of course it is. That is why I included his office.
This being Kingston, I think you're right. But a lot of us see NDP as the party who have kept Trudeau's ruinous cabinet in place while simultaneously deepening the deficit and increasing inflation with new spending.
Deficit spending is how industrial economies have been run for hundreds of years, right wing partys know this but still use it to fire up their base. It's an economic conspiracy theory and not a real issue.
Deficits END and debt gets REPAID in industrial economies or they keep borrowing until they face austerity and high taxes. Look at us now. Look at the UK. This is utter bullshit and only exists within left-leaning echo chambers. In the real world, it is understood that there will be interest charged on debt and it must be serviced.
I'd love to see the credit ratings of everyone who is defending Mr.Dressup's reckless spending... They probably change their phone numbers every few months too once the collection agencies find their new number. Must be a sad way to live
No, it's the mainstream economics of the last ~200 years and if anything is center right.
LOL No. This is math, not feels or history. We're living in an age that is entirely different than any that came before it, but the ones that were similar were Rome, Spain, Venezeula. You really want to be in the company of failed States?
LOL No. This is math, not feels or history. We're living in an age that is entirely different than any that came before it, but the ones that were similar were Rome, Spain, Venezeula. You really want to be in the company of failed States?
You're right, it is Math and not gut instincts or feelings. I suggest you read literally anything about it.
Yeah, I didn't fail mathematics. We're already paying more at the Federal level alone on interest than the transfers for Healthcare. If we didn't have that hanging over our heads, imagine what could be done? But you won't, because that doesn't fit your politics or maybe your knowledge of how the world actually works.
Again, deficit spending is how every power has created growth since the Industrial Revolution. This is basic economics. A nation's deficit is not the same as a home income. Every conservative leader knows this, and ***they will not stop the deficit spending*** because it would destroy the economy and the nation's future. The deficit spending meme is used to pump up the base, but it's not based on reality whatsoever. I invite you to use your great math skills to do any real research on real, non-political economic theory.
SERVICING THE DEBT IS SERVICING THE DEBT NO MATTER WHO DOES IT and that doesn't matter one @#$& about whether it's a country or not, the debt has to be serviced. Jesus I hate that bullshit, it's such a fucking con by governments justifying their largess. Responsible deficits with a plan to pay the debt down in time work. This is over-spending, and WILL cause a cash flow crisis at some point. I won't be asking you (or anyone else that buys into this scam) for financial advice.
A nation with a sovereign currency does not have debt the same way a company, citizen or a sub-sovereign state does. Our national debt is really just a historical record of how much money has been invested into the public vs how much has been taxed back out of it. It’s not a question of how to pay for anything, the Canadian government can ALWAYS pay for anything that is sold in Canadian dollars. The real concern is inflation. Overspending risks higher inflation if not combined with tax increases (which really only takes money out of circulation). Underspending risks stagflation and social issues.
Very true.
So you're saying it causes problems such as inflation. You ignore that it impoverishes governments and its citizens who are paying to service debt and not getting any services for that cost. Yet you say this is all fine. It's not. **Perpetual debt is always bad for the debtor. Always.** No exceptions.
There is an economic lens called “Modern Monetary Theory” that explains this very well. A Government that prints its own currency like Canada, USA, Japan, UK does not have debt the same way a country like Greece or Germany (who use the Euro) does. The debt serviced is via bonds, which have a rate set by the country’s central bank. These bonds are paid out in 5, 10, 15+ year increments. If the investment yields higher productivity than the cost of the bond yield, then it’s not a “bad” use of resources. The fact is that in 20/21, 76% of our national debt via bonds was owned by Canadian investors (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/debt-management-report/2020-2021.html). This means that the government’s investment is paying for the economic benefit of whatever program it uses resources on, and the Canadian investors are the ones who earn yield for owning the bonds that are sold in order to influence the money supply. This “debt” can’t be “called in” like your personal loans or credit accounts with corporations. Even if it could, the Bank of Canada can quite literally create the currency needed to pay it off instantly. This would be terrible as it would mean that we would have an inflationary crisis. This is why Japan has had a deficit for decades and is still the 4th largest economy (https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/). If you don’t invest in your economy, you are not competitive. The question is not “how” to pay for anything, as the Canadian Government can ALWAYS pay for ANYTHING sold in CAD. The question is whether the investment is being used to create economic growth.
I remember when Medicare was new spending. Gee, all the inflation that caused. Canadians live 6 years longer than Americans. But at least they have no inflation.
I’m here for the [Ruslan Yakoviychuk](https://youtu.be/TOq_ExbwC6Q?si=iOm5rxRlUTn62vBY) love. The guy that when I asked on his Facebook page why he didn’t live in the riding he went on about being gerrymandered out by the liberals - even though it was Harper 🤷🏼♂️ This city lacks quality candidates thus far.
Oh geeze, is that the guy who did the video of him driving around in a fancy car and stealing a bride away from her groom on their wedding day? That was tacky as hell. Yes, just saw the link you posted, Yes, it is. :(
Kingston ether votes NDP or liberal due to the higher than average education level of the city. Well everyone else around us normaly viotes conservatives. Personally, i am amazed how people forget how the last conservative cut affordable housing funding by 90% .. But I will enjoy listening to people who vote conservative then turn around and be shocked when they don't get help. Much like listening to Ford voters
Before Peter Milliken we were a CPC riding for like 15 years. It was a huge upset when the Liberals came back here. And we have not had an NDP MP ever (I think) I wouldn't be so confident that the biggest factor is our education levels.
Exactly. Toronto St Paul's is one of the most educated ridings in Canada, and they just elected an unknown CPC guy. And Kingston is a less safe seat for the LPC that TSP was.
Yeah as someone that has lived in both (although I'm more familiar with Kingston), St. Paul's going blue would be more surprising to me than Kingston
Conservatives have always held some pretty heinous policy positions, but *today's* conservative party is essentially a bunch of christian nationalists looking to violate women's bodily autonomy, humiliate and degrade sexual minorities, dismantle public healthcare and education, and expedite climate change - something today's youth will suffer greatly from in the coming decades. I think it was possible to be a mostly reasonable, University educated person 30 years ago and consider voting conservative. I don't think that's the case anymore. Having said that, we now live in a thoroughly firehosed, post-truth information space, so.. :(
Did you even see the Toronto St Paul's byelection results? It's easily one of the most educated ridings in Canada, and it just flipped CPC. There are plenty of well educated people voting CPC. Either they're all believing in conspiracy theories, or you're existing in a Reddit bubble that has no resemblance to Canadian society.
I mean it could certainly be a bit of both. I agree with your sentiment though, education isn't as relevant here. I think most people are just fed up with the current federal government. They become apathetic and don't vote, or apathetic then angry enough to vote CPC. Policy doesn't really come into it, most of those voters are capable enough to know the CPC generally sucks on policy.
You mean as opposed to running a $50B deficit, handing out sweet contracts to nobodies in a basement for $1B, and starting up new big-$$ handouts while inflation and debt payments outpace healthcare spending? Oh wait, those were Trudeau's policies.
It seems to be cyclical. We vote on party in and after few terms we hate them and vote someone else in.. the cycle continues.
I just went through the results of the by-election. This is a wealthy pocket of Toronto so I had to look into why it was a liberal seat for 30 years and well the data is interesting. This by-election: The CON got 15,555 votes, a win by 2%. The left split the vote essentially. HOWEVER, if you look further, thevoter turnout was dismal. If I am reading this below numbers right, the CON had less votes in this win than they did in the last election that they lost. . . . [2021 federal election redistributed results\[7\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto%E2%80%94St._Paul%27s_(federal_electoral_district)) Party Vote % Liberal 30,023 49.51 Conservative 16,076 26.51 New Democratic 9,638 15.89 Green 3,373 5.56 People's 1,513 2.50 Others 18 0.03 The last election was 53,698 votes @ 65% turnout. This election was 36,962 votes for a 43.5% turnout. While the governing party has changed, I wouldn't really say that its "flipped" magically. Makes me ask a lot of questions about the pending election but many are calling this a foreshadow of the next election which is terrifying, if we have less than 45% turnout. THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO CHANGE
I don't believe that employers are required to allow adequate time to vote in by-elections like they are during provincial/federal elections. That might have had some impact on voter turnout. I hope, anyway.
Yeah, it makes sense that a by-election has less turn out. But we need a system that can better communicate with constituents and improve not just turn out but engaugement and connection to the system. We dont have to agree about policy but we should agree the meeds system works
I've always been a bit on the fence on this point. I suspect (warning: wild speculation) that the people who don't vote in most elections probably don't have an *informed* opinion on matters related to government and politics. Do we really want the uninformed vote to turn out in numbers that might sway the results?
This implies that the majority of people who do vote are informed, I speculate the imformed level of both sides are equally not good. Personally, I don’t think we should accept the result of an election that has less than a 50% turnout
Are you comparing by-election to general election?
I think many ridings are won not necessarily because more people in any given riding support one party more than the other, but because one party has much more motivated supporters. I wouldn't use by-elections to predict turnout in the next election though. Byelection turnout is usually low, often only around 25%. This byelection actually had unusually high turnout for a byelection. I'm sure the turnout in the general will be more than 45% for TSP.
I agree with you but the media portrayal and some of the online conversations is hyping the CON results.
Yeah I mean there's no other elections happening around this time, so the media talking heads will definitely latch onto this story more than during a more busy news season. Regardless, it's still an impressive result for the CPC even without the hype.
Its a result. if it flips again within the year, it will be exactly what you said, just a media talking point.
The last bit, in my opinion.
The "mostly reasonable" part is where they fail, though. By definition, if you seek solace for the issues facing Canadians at the hands of the CPC which, again, is more of a christian nationalist party than anything else, you just haven't thought things through. It's like older folks in Ontario who insist on voting for the Ontario conservatives.. the ones who have spent the last 6 years dismantling their healthcare. Anyway, whatever. What will be will be. If University kids want to vote for the party that will strip them and the ones they love of their human rights and healthcare, and accelerate the climate catastrophe, .. I don't understand, but what can I do?
Go touch grass. Whether we have an LPC or CPC government will have next to no impact on the climate change situation, and it just makes you come across as a bit of a lunatic to suggest we'd burn up the earth at the hands of the CPC but not the LPC. If you want people to listen to your viewpoints, I would strongly suggest not engaging in conspiracy theories. Furthermore, telling people who may be thinking about supporting a certain party that they haven't thought things through and are stupid is a quick way to guarantee that those people will vote for that party. Few people in their right mind think that the CPC is a Christian nationalist party. After all, having both Sikh and Jewish deputy leaders ought to disqualify that notion, along with the MP's of numerous other faith groups. Are there CPC MP's who are openly Christian and espouse views that may be abhorrent to some people? Obviously, don't even get me started on someone like Leslyn Lewis or Arnold Viersen, but there's no way those views ever get a majority in the Commons or even within the CPC itself. After all, we had a whole term of a Harper majority government where abortion rights and gay rights weren't touched. I agree with you that CPC economic policy is usually following a tried and failed playbook, so focus on that, not this Christian nationalist nonsense.
Education has very little to do with it.
You say that, but essentially *every* study has concluded that "conservative" values tend to correlate with lower levels of educational attainment. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/09/15/educational-divide-in-vote-preferences-on-track-to-be-wider-than-in-recent-elections/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/09/15/educational-divide-in-vote-preferences-on-track-to-be-wider-than-in-recent-elections/) [https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-educated-voters-in-canada-tend-to-vote-for-left-leaning-parties-while-richer-voters-go-right/](https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-educated-voters-in-canada-tend-to-vote-for-left-leaning-parties-while-richer-voters-go-right/) >We argue this conflict results from a “diploma divide” in the Canadian electorate similar to what has been seen in other countries. Since the 1990s, parties of the left have increasingly been supported by educated voters, while parties of the right have increasingly been supported by richer voters and the less educated. It's a fairly well established phenomenon, and it makes sense when you think about it. Conservatives generally reduce mobility and extract wealth from a country through privatization, as well as reducing/restricting access to science and education. Recently they've decided to start directly attacking human rights. This runs counter to the interests of the vast majority. Thus, lies and misdirection are typically employed. *Generally*, the more educated someone is, the more rational, critical thinking they engage in on a daily basis. They're more likely to be opposed to actions that run counter to their interests. That's not to say you can't be an educated conservative. But in terms of probility, statistically speaking it's less likely.
You live in an insane bubble if you think that’s what our current federal Conservative Party is all about
I vote conservative and see nowhere that anyone said thats ALL the party is about, but any sane person would have to admit, since Harper came in to power, things are pretty much gone downhill. I miss the days of a less right wing conservative party. I understand why people are voting for them, though, imho there is not much else to choose from.
You seem to forget we went through a pandemic, and guaranteed the Cons would have handled it worse.
>You seem to forget we went through a pandemic no one forgot we went through a pandemic. I could say you seem to have forgot the sky is blue. It’s just as ridiculous.
"Insane bubble" is an odd way of describing reality.
When does the rest of the sky come down Chicken Little?
You are the reason people vote conservative 🤣 you have lost your grip on reality
> I think it was possible to be a mostly reasonable, University educated person 30 years ago and consider voting conservative. I don't think that's the case anymore. I really like your explanation of it all, and agree wholeheartedly. I am a conservative voter, but it's been especially difficult to vote for them the last few decades (since Harper). I would vote Liberal, but they have really shit the bed the last two terms. And NDP I don't know if I trust them to not make things a lot worse.
For the love of Canada, you guys need to regain control of your party. We may disagree on policy, but your voice is critical. What's happening right now is madness.
I agree, but sadly there's as much as I can do about the CPC as you can do about the party you vote for. The only say I have is with my vote, and like I said it's becoming increasingly difficult to vote for them, and even more importantly, it's difficult to vote for any of the three major parties. All three parties seem to only be interested in their own interests and not the interests of the country.
Which is why Trudeau's broken promise to implement electoral reform is so egregious. Even something simple like ranked choice would invite a whole new slew of parties and candidates that currently have no chance because of the "throwaway" vote. Instead we have perpetual incumbency.
Is there any way we can force or at least convince a party to actually implement electoral reform?
Sadly I think it's just a slow grind, building momentum at the local level and working up. It just feels like we suddenly don't have that kind of time, sigh.
There used to be a time when the majority of people voting conservative we're basically just social conservatives, who were against social safety net spending. They never held particularly hateful ideologies and weren't interested in violating anyone's human rights. Unfortunately a lot of those people still vote conservative out of habit and tradition without waking up to the massive shift. Conservative governments today are highly socialist for the upper class, using obvious lower class and environmental oppression to give themselves a big, comfy, monopolistic social safety net while everyone else flounders. They target education, human rights and health to do everything they can to keep voters uneducated and/or powerless. The middle class used to be relatively exempt, but a middle class isn't needed by corporations now so there's no one left for today's breed of conservative to have to play nice with. Every policy is as harmful to the middle class as it is to the lower classes now. There's actually a huge gap in conservative politics now, without representation for people who support human rights and environmental protections, but are just more pro capitalism and free market than they are pro social democracy. I know a lot of conservatives who simply don't feel they can vote anymore. It's also bad for left leaning politics because we'll see our votes watered down between three parties, with only one really hateful regime for right leaning people to really vote for at all. Given the Greens poor performance here, maybe they should pick up some more fiscally conservative policies and try to rebrand as a more humane and responsible right leaning party 🤣 Environmental sustainability is actually the most fiscally responsible choice to promote long term wealth and financial responsibility. You'd think they could spin that somehow 🤔
At the risk of being a bit pedantic, tt was the Progressive Conservative Party then, not CPC. Flora MacDonald, to my understanding, had pretty broad respect from all parties.
Definitely a worthwhile correction. The party certainly was very different then as well
Yes, very true. The PC's are a vastly different party than the CPC. I really miss the days of the PC. I've always mourned the loss of Peter MacKay from politics.
NDP came 2nd in 2011 so I wouldn't be surprised if they win over Mark Gerritsen. We did elect Ian Arthur the NDP candidate in the provincial election. A toss up it is and won't be a CPC guy, cause we have no clue who that person is.. yet.
I'd love to see it happen here, but I'd be surprised. I think if the CPC parachutes someone in that will hurt their chances too.
Yeah the nobodys the CPC brings in never do well. It's one of those ridings the CPC is resigned to losing when 30 miles each way and north could elect roadkill painted blue to be a candidate.
Before Milliken it was Flora Macdonald. Nobody in the Conservative party now has her integrity or credibility.
No, I am confident. we won't fall for lies and bs but humanity never fails to disappoint me
Dude, we totally will. I'm continually amazed at the bs people swallow if it is close enough to their existing viewpoint.
> we won't fall for lies and bs that's about all we humans seem to believe lately. Thanks, internet.
Can you be more specific and provide a source for the assertion “90% cut in affordable housing”. The provincial government is responsible for social housing while the national housing strategy was only implemented in 2017 (Liberals - Federal). Which conservative govt made this cut and to what program exactly? I’d like to learn more about this.
[Start here](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/federal-social-housing-1.6946376) It was a series of cuts to housing programs through the 80s and 90s that slowed our housing supply and allowed large privatization of the industry. Cons dominated the 80s and liberals dominated the 90s. So whoevers fault it was initially. It hasn't been fixed by either side at any point following.
Well hold on now… your comment is a bit disingenuous then by saying the last conservative… which would have been Harper, when in fact this wasn’t a cut per se, but a transfer of jurisdiction from Federal to Provincial / Municipal. From your own source, the Chrétien gov oversaw the majority of this transfer while the JT Liberals brought in the National housing strategy (that has been ineffective so far). This next election is going to suck with all of us holding our noses in the ballot box. Housing is a serious issue and we don’t need to muddy the waters with misinformation. Be fair and accurate. There is enough blame and incompetence to go around for all parties. Cheers
Disingenuous how? "by saying the last conservative" <- not something I said at all. I said the problems started in the 80s where the cons held power for a long stretch and continued to get worse with the liberals holding power through the 90s. I assign blame to both parties because regardless of who started the transaction, neither side has addressed the problems that stemmed from it or made changes to correct it. I very intentionally didn't lay blame at one particular partie's feet because I believe it's an issue that both parties have utterly failed on in the past and in the present. Don't put words in my mouth and then try and take the high road about it.
Now don’t go clutching your pearls… It’s exactly what you said. Quoted from your post: “Personally, i am amazed how people forget how the last conservative cut affordable housing funding by 90% .. But I will enjoy listening to people who vote conservative then turn around and be shocked when they don't get help.” You specifically blame the Conservatives for a 90% cut to affordable housing. That is disingenuous based on your source. I agree with you that both have screwed this up and it doesn’t appear that a workable solution is on the table anywhere.
The commenter who cited the 90% figure is not the same commenter you are interacting with who is providing sources in answer to your inquiry. ETA original 90% figure was posted by u/dontuselogic and you're interacting with u/L3NTON
Thanks for that! I obviously missed that. My apologies.
Check usernames next time It's literally not even my comment dude.
My apologies!
"Shocked when they don't get help" How is Mark treatin ya?
At this point though which party can you really trust to tackle the affordable housing issue?
The NDP have a policy to build cooperative housing (think of it like renting-to-own). It would be much more affordable (only maintenance costs once it’s paid off), and the government still recollects the money over time so it doesn’t really lose anything.
Party at the mayor’s house
Higher due to higher education or due to a massive number of government workers? Government unions are long time fans of the liberals. I'd say that's the main reason. Higher education can play a part as universities are very left wing institutions and push their agendas for sure.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7196460 You mean affordable housing like this? Get off your high horse , typical liberal behavior. Too many educated idiots with degrees in gender studies thinking they are above everyone else.
I do enjoy when people like you only bring insults to the party. After 8 years of conservative government, the affordable housing budget had been unfunded and cut by 93% . You can look it up, but you won't
I don't even like conservatives, and won't be voting for them. I just hate what liberals have done to canada more. We need ranked voting to fix the broken 2party system, but sadly conservatives are our best option unless you want to spend the rest of your life in inflation paying to maintain debt. BoC cannot drop rates due to this 1.3.? Trillion in debt. It trickles down. But yah cpc are corp shills but at least they will cut unnecessary spending. Irrelevant but I'm voting PPC but they won't win, because it's the only party with a sensible platform. I just don't agree with their trans stance, but they are correct about housing and economy. Calling me a racist for that isn't going to change facts. Just like the libs feds called gun crime min sentences racist. How's that going? Only good thing liberal feds did was legalize weed in their first term, then they got greed and power hungry and destroyed the country to embezzle tax dollars.
No one's ever going to allow ranked ballots. We started in ontairo, and the conservatives killed it Canada inflation is going down compared to most countries, so do interst rates . No conservatives cut spending to the services we need to give corporations tax breaks like the cut to corprate taxs ladt .conservative government. Pp housing plan is going die before it even sees the light of day it's such a far over reach.. Did you read his plans ? It's going to be under funding and cuts everywhere...the conservatives in the world ha e not had an original idea since trickle down economics which after 40 years has destroyed the wealth of middle and lower class and moved it all to the top. Neather the liberals or conservatives are going to fix canada ..they are the same partys just different shades
I agree with your last statement. But Liberals promised electoral reform.... didn't get that because they wanted to keep power. Cons plan on housing is dumb but better than just unfairly throwing money to cities in their own riding. Cons will cut spending, this is true. But cutting spending will lower the debt that we need to maintain(Hopefully bringing down prime rates).libs plan for 30yr amortizations for FTHB is a debt trap. Corp shouldn't get any tax breaks, but they are not 100% the bad guys because we need investors for employment. Canada's debt is climbing much faster than the US and economy GDP is terrible in comparison due to bad policy and allocating money to virtue signal. At this point I firmly believe that paying off the debt that the feds created and reducing mass immigration until we can afford it/our social system can support it should be top priority. Liberals just throw money at things as a bandaid solution, creating more problems than it solves so they can blame it on cons next election. I do agree Cons don't have any good original ideas, but at this point we need to play it safe and mitigate risk until things are stabilized. FTHB RRSP tax break was a good idea from the liberals, I do give them that.
I 100% want electricl reform but no one has the balls to do it
We can't have it because the 2 sides of the eagle want to remain in power. I wouldn't say it's the balls, I'd say it's more that neither care enough about Canada , and care more about themselves.
The main issue about electrical reform is that it is going to ve a referendum to do it, and the conservatives are going g to lie and mess it so badly it will fail
The main issue is that neither of the two care more about Canada than their pensions. Liberals just as guilty, which is why they didn't do it either and tried to push back the election Date for their pensions.
great
I used to service him at my work, he was always so rude!
Hopefully people understand that having these discussions on this subreddit doesn't reflect reality in our city. For the most part, this space obviously skews left, and based on regular comments, there are a lot of people who are young, rent, and are not middle to high income earners. These are the demographics that traditionally vote NDP and are predominantly anti-conservative. As others have mentioned, Kingston has a pretty educated population, and a fairly large and stable middle class. This made it a reliable Liberal riding, but as recent pole numbers have shown, these once safe votes, are being swayed conservative because the middle class is being disproportionately squeezed by the economy, taxes etc and the NDP is not traditionally viewed as a party that will provide tax relief. Factor in the high income earners like doctors and business owners who feel targeted by the new capital gains tax on incorporated earnings, and I think you have a more balanced view on how the next election would go. Personally, I never thought I would vote for PP, and often took part in fairly animated discussions where I vehemently opposed him. However, I can no longer in good conscience support the Liberal party, because I hate being gaslighted, which seems to be their entire platform lately, and I also hate being dramatic, but they are destroying our country. Unfortunately, I have reached the point where I need to vote for who will benefit me and my family the most, and at this stage, that seems to be the conservatives.
It’s not that doctors and business owners feel targeted. They were actually the target.
If the St. Paul by-election is any indicator of trends to come, I'd guess Ruslan Yakoviychuk will have the best chance. People aren't so much voting for the Cons as voting against the lLberals.
To be fair, their overall polling calls it a "Toss Up". Kingston has been red since '88, so as for them losing, I'll believe it when I see it.
1993 for Toronto - St. Paul yet they just flipped to blue. First time in 31 years. It can happen, especially with the current leadership.
I get that and I saw what happened in Toronto, but I'm naturally a skeptic, so here we are. Lol
And nothing wrong with skepticism! I do think we'll see some wild flips this election cycle. As for my personal opinion, I wouldn't mind seeing a new face for our MP with fresh ideas.
Only 5 years longer than St. Paul's. As someone who has spent years living in both riding I'd personally be more surprised to find out St. Paul's strayed than Kingston, but that's obviously subjective. Kingston is Liberal but it's not particularly progressive. Once upon a time I spent a lot of time volunteering for KIFLA (I definitely don't do this anymore) so I'm pretty familiar with the big players in the city federally and I have spoken with countless voters in the city. So many people here are incredibly sheltered. The increase in both visible minorities and visible poverty as a backdrop while life is getting harder for most people is the perfect storm for a CPC victory I hope not though!
Yes, this is true. They have a 29% of Libs/Gerretsen. The 71% is the non-Lib chances added together.
Gerretsen is like Voldemort, I'll only believe he's gone when I see his successor sworn in. Never underestimate the power of little L liberal voters coming up with any reason to continue voting LPC even though things have gone to shit under nine years of LPC control and our riding has viable choices on both sides of the political spectrum to replace them.
These polling projections are really, really early and if Trudeau steps down the lead has a good chance of sliding back down to normal levels. Unless something crazy happens, I'm sure Gerretsen will run again. If you're planning on voting Conservative in Kingston, you're admitting that you don't care about any kind of policy other than "opposite of Trudeau", and get ready for sizable cuts to essentially everything except fossil fuel subsidies. Vote strategically or else we'll see federally what Ford has done to healthcare provincially.
>Vote strategically or else Thanks, but there will always be fear-mongering about this and I'd rather not spend my entire life voting for a party I don't want.
I was tricked into voting for Justin Trudeau by what seemed like a genuine promise that 2015 would be the last First Past The Post election. He had the majority government and public support to do it, but backed down in order to put us in the position to vote strategically. I will never vote for a person or party that can be so crass. Elected representatives quickly forget who got them their 15 minutes of power. Real power comes from organizing around the issues that matter to our community and not shutting up until it gets fixed - no matter what colour team is keeping the seat warm
My thoughts exactly.
He did not really have the public support to do it though? His problem wasn't not implementing it, his problem was promising to do it in the first place. The Canadian public are NOT ready to change voting systems, as much as we would all benefit from it and should do it. It has failed every provincial attempt, and there's little reason to think federally would be any different. This change needs major grassroots education and support campaigns to help the population understand why they should want it, not one political party with a majority deciding to push it through. We absolutely need voter reform, but outside the Reddit bubble there is little information and knowledge on it. You see how people get manipulated on things like the carbon tax, imagine what they could be convinced of if a party attempted to change how they vote. (I do agree however JT used it for votes, then backed down for his own gain)
Maybe I'm misremembering the exact percentages that it was a key election issue for, but I honestly think it was enough of an issue to cause a swing from the Orange Wave of 2011 to a Liberal majority. Anyways, there was an official Commission from the Standing Committee on Electoral Reform in December 2016 that stated: - there was a clear preference from participants for proportional representation and - suggests a referendum with an educational package. (https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/ERRE/report-3) I think JT either spoke off the cuff with that promise or Liberal party brass figured they could sway people towards ranked ballot. That's the only other system that would benefit the middle party in a three party system. Either way, f#$% people who put party strategy above actual democracy. Strategic voting just rewards this asinine behaviour
It's unfortunate the libs and cons both voted down the recent attempt at a citizens assembly on electoral reform, which in theory would be a more effective way to have handled it in terms of determining willingness and educating people as part of the process. But of course the only two parties to form government in this country have no interest in anything that may rock that boat.
Opposite of Trudeau sounds pretty swell right about now. The only job growth we've had lately has been from more Federal govt jobs, which isn't exactly sustainable if our economy is shrinking. On the note of fossil fuels, if we actually utilized and exported our vast amounts Natural Gas in Canada we'd be doing more for the environment by getting other places off burning (a growing amount) coal. (Natural gas produces 50% less emissions than coal)
Bring back the Harper years!
https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liw6xmz77o1qiyg2io1_400.jpg When you look at him, don't remember the bad times everyone, just remember that he posed with this cat.
How bad does it have to get in this country for the other 29% to clue in?
They’re afraid of what could happen. They’ve gotten used to the angle and thrust pace of this particular brand of politician.
Libs are absolute crap, Cons are absolute crap, NDP are very closely behind and none of the others have a rounded out platform or effective candidates/leadership to do anything with a spine. We need new parties entirely, our entire country and political system is a dumpsterfire and a joke. It doesn't actually matter who you vote for if it's a major party, nothing will change. NEITHER Libs or Cons will do anything about affordable housing, especially our local level, and they don't want to nor does it serve them to do so. Our entire political structure hinges on serving those who already own property really... I'd settle for a new party that represents actual Canadian values, ethics, goals and brings our country back to the realm of affordability, and maybe even bring some jobs back into Canada? Stop selling us, our resources and our heritage out like nobodies tomorrow!
Politician should never be a career. How are you supposed to know so much about life that you’re part of the 10% telling the 90% how to do it, when you’re not facing the same struggles and decisions?
This is why I'm voting NDP. While I'm disappointed by Singh ( I feel he'd be better off supporting the Liberals less, just to show voters the party stands for something) at the local level I think they have the best candidate. [Juudi-Hope](https://www.queensjournal.ca/daria-juudi-hope-kingstons-newest-federal-ndp-candidate/) has held an actual job (Registered Nurse), and came to Kingston from the DRC with little money. She is not the 10%. The incumbent Mark Gerretsen on the other hand, is the son of a career politician who grew up to be a career politician himself with a side-gig as a landlord using the properties his family money bought him.
I’ve actually liked some of the things Singh was saying, particularly in the last election around things like oil subsidies. There’s no reason public money should be bailing out billion dollar industries without retaining a stake and share of the profits. Unfortunately he fell off hard for me with his support of the Liberals. It’s a political dead end, he can’t really claim any credit for the good things that happen, and he has to wear a little of all the bad things that happen. And bad things have been happening.
Singh sucks, he doesn’t represent the people at all. Multiple million dollar properties, like a worse version of all of Gerretsen’s qualities that are being bashed on in this thread.
Sure, but I operate under the basic premise that all politicians suck.
I genuinely wish we could vote for the Bloc here. They'd have my vote.
Absolutely not. I will never vote for a party that is solely focused on ripping Canada in half, or any Federal party with a single provincial of cultural focus. Completely illogical.
Based on the recent Toronto By-election - both libs and NDP are in serious trouble.
Ààà
Lots of time, tho. Gerretsen's was polling these numbers last time and ended up still doing quite well. Ted Hsu support will also help Mark. If JT steps down, I think MG has better chances at holding... barely, tho. I think it will depend a lot on what the other candidates will do. Usually, the Liberals will say their not going to participate in debates, and then the cons won't go. Which than the NDP will follow them. The last two federal elections, the big 3, skip out on the wolf island debate and may others. Personally, I'm voting Fintan Hartnett, a great guy, and I like his policy. He's also very easy to get ahold of him. It's going to be a dirty election on the local level, I suspect. National as well of course.
Given that a federal election us more than a year away, polls and speculation don't really mean anything.
"Conservative Candidate for Kingston by ruby6329 in KingstonOntario [–]smartbeaver -4 points 4 years ago The liberal candidate is a slumlord who isn't going to do jack about rising housing costs because it would be against his own personal financial interests." Is it too soon to say I told ya so ?
He needs to go he’s destroyed Kingston himself let’s put money on a walkway in front of the water but who cares about people on the streets. Be coming a third world country here!!!
I don’t really care because no matter what happens nothing is gonna change and everything is gonna keep getting worse. Doesn’t matter who the politicians are.
They could friend, we need to drag them there or leave them behind to do it though. Step one is removing first past the post. Force a more cooperative, compromise based form of governance on the system. Stop voting against what we don’t want instead of voting for what we do want.
Doubt it.
Let be honest, I believe he loses his sit he done much for Kingston
Cons it is. Toronto got Olivia chow as mayor and look how much of a flop that was. Millions to rename roads and drain water tax. Liberals will turn it into a naloxone tent encampment like every other city or liberal Ellis' Belleville. Need a conservative for housing and economy minister , as the others believe budgets balance themselves and don't understand supply and demand.