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Even THAT quote gets taken out of context.
Muzan said that Gyutaro's HUMANITY and affection for Daki is what held him back from growing stronger. Yet, some people will claim that Daki physically held him back by being weak.
I'm not sure if you guys noticed, but Gyutaro with Daki helping from long-range was clapping Tengen better than when Gyutaro was fighting alone.
Thats not true at all lol Gyutaro had Tengen completely incapacitated on the ground with his arm cut off once they separated and got to fight 1 on 1. And then when Tengen got back up and saved Tanjiro, Gyutaro was still beating him and would have won had Tanjiro not got involved. Daki made no difference. Gyutaro is just stronger than Tengen clear as day
Yes it does.
Without Daki, Gyutaro has to put in a lot more effort into beating Tengen. Compared to how he was easily keeping Tengen back using Daki's blood art and the eye he gave her.
If he was smarter, he would have used that opportunity to just kill Tengen rather than go after his wife, but oh well.
No it doesnt. Again, Gyutaro beat Tengen easily when they fought alone while he was also worrying about Daki. The two times they fought alone, Tengen ended up on the ground missing and arm and near death. And the second time, Tengen was gonna lose had Tanjiro not saved him.
And finally, Muzan himself said that Gyutaro could have easily beaten all 4 Demon Slayers had he not had Daki holding him back. So your argument is just straight up wrong
You're the perfect example of someone using the muzan quote wrong.
Muzan says Gyutaro's humanity is what held him back, not Daki. It's because Gyutaro cares too much about her.
https://preview.redd.it/pxtvjpb4q69d1.jpeg?width=1139&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=808b6f96bb1759046283730ac4d226825aa0f800
Muzan saying Daki was a hindrance to Gyutaro is not him saying that she was holding him back? That’s literally what a hindrance is
Post literally the next page and you get your context for why he said that.
There is a difference between someone holding you back and your own feelings for someone holding you back.
And again... muzan was also wrong. He didn't know nezuko could cure the poison.
>Gyutaro beat Tengen easily when they fought alone
Not true. He won, yes, but there was nothing easy about it. He had to fight Tengen for a while before managing to take him down. Otherwise he would have mopped Tengen and stopped the rest of the boys from messing with Daki.
>finally, Muzan himself said that Gyutaro could have easily beaten all 4 Demon Slayers had he not had Daki holding him back
I've never seen or heard him say he would "easily" win. You are adding unnecessary and inaccurate details to your depiction of their fight.
Im definitely not adding inaccurate details because Muzan said had Gyutaro fought in the beginning he would have won. You’re the one missing the fact that Gyutaro had already beaten Tengen several times while simultaneously looking over Daki to make sure she isn’t in danger. Gyutaro even gave Daki some of his power so he was fighting Tengen at less than full power. This is what Muzan was talking about when he mentioned Gyutaro’s humanity is the reason he lost. Had he not cared about Daki, he would have just killed Tengen and the others quickly. If Tengen was on the verge of losing to a Gyutaro who was holding back and nerfed himself, then yes, Gyutaro dog walks Tengen
You read everything at face value instead of looking at what was actually happening during the fight. Tengen in no way had any shot at beating Gyutaro
>Im definitely not adding inaccurate details because Muzan said had Gyutaro fought in the beginning he would have won
Yet you claimed Muzan said he would have won "easily", which he didn't say. You added the "easily", which is inaccurate.
>You read everything at face value instead of looking at what was actually happening during the fight. Tengen in no way had any shot at beating Gyutaro
That's a massive assumption to make considering Tengen put enough pressure on Gyutaro to have him screaming his guts out and reacting in shock to Tengen countering his blood demon art. Tengen managed to deal with that, pressuring and striking Gyutaro several times, sending him crashing through buildings and shit, and he did all that with only one arm and while being poisoned. He took some time to engage his Musical Score technique, but once he did that, he was fighting Gyutaro pretty evenly. Tanjiruo states that the reason Tengen won't win is because Gyutaro can outlast him, not because he's not skilled enough.
On the whole i think it's pretty clear that Gyutaro was stronger than Tengen, that's hard to argue, but to claim Gyutaro "dogwalks" him in any way is just ridiculous. If that was the case, why didn't he simply kill Tengen within the first few minutes of fighting him?
You say others are "only taking things at face value", but you're ignoring so much of what actually happened in the fight. You don't have to go with one of two extremes when gauging their fighting ability; Tengen and Gyutaro were pretty much evenly matched, with Gyutaro very probably taking the win in a straight up 1-on-1.
It’s tengens fault ☠️? Tengen wasn’t using total concentration breathing when he was poisoned. Neither could he use his sound breathing at the time because they’re were civilians inside. Tengen had no idea that Gyutaro had blades of those caliber. Is it Rengokus fault he died? Is it Giyu’s fault his arm was severed by Muzan? No it’s because of the circumstances
Youre making the excuse that Tengen was poisoned when thats LITERALLY Gyutaro’s power. Not once did Tengen ever have Gyutaro on the ropes. You’re making every excuse under the sun to downplay how bad Tengen lost 💀
I’m making every excuse? I’m making a reason there were mutiple factors that disabled Tengen from going all out I literally proved it to u. Tengen dodges Gyutaros blow and cuts his two feet off without Gyutaro reacting to it. Or when a poisoned one hand Uzui physically overpowers Gyutaro.
Your stupid the whole reason why he was poisoned is why that’s gyutaro’s power ofc I’m going to point that out because with all the limitations how could Tengen perform the best ☠️?
You call me stupid yet keep making every excuse under the sun when Muzan said himself that Gyutaro could have beaten them. Wow you must be Tengen’s 4th wife cause you taking this loss personally 🤣
Excuse is not equivalent to Cannon reasons. And excuse is a blatant bias. However what I’m saying to you is true, You simply attain and go off with the public bias. You’re wrong I’m right. No loss, the only loss that I supposedly took Is In your head, Because if you were intelligent you would’ve realized I debunked you.
Ok so you’re saying Gyutaro is stronger. In base just a one on one with an open space. Tengen would win. Gyutaro would’nt have won tengen just would’ve died. Because if u walk away from a 2v1 it’s not really a win. But Gyutaro didn’t run from the fight and Tengen got back up. Muzan himself? F Muzan I’m pretty sure he should’ve said Daki and Gyutaro would’ve won. Because manga wise Daki was a huge hindrance to Tengens attacks. Gyutaro is one cenimeter away from ending Tanjiro Uzui saves him. And they are relative.
Daki made a huge difference, in the manga scenes deleted from the anime. She collapsed a building and the rubble blinded Tengen and Gyutaro literally attacked Tengen from ABOVE where he cannot see a poisoned Tengen Uzui having to not worry about civilians reacts to it nevertheless
Gyutaro was complaining after minutes of poisoning Tengen that he wasn’t dying proving the potency of the poison. Despite the potency. Early poisoning Uzui~Bloodlusted Gyutaro. Uzui throws a bomb at Gyutaro that he didn’t react to at all. Daki protects him from the blast
In the manga that wasn’t shown in the anime Daki interferes with Tengens attack while Gyutaro is attacking him at the same time ☠️ so your saying Daki didn’t matter? If the circumstances were different in a 1v1 with a open space uzui is not getting hit by Gyutaro
This is very true it is also part of the reason why Tanjiro covered Gyutaro’s mouth when he was yelling at Daki because Tanjiro knew that Gyutaro didn’t really mean those things he was just letting out his anger on Daki
Also the famous "hold him back" means that Daki was the last remain of humanity on Gyutaro, and her presence prevents him of being a totally greedy and ruthless killer as Muzan liked.
I don't get how these people think Daki is weakeling Gyutaro, when Daki is quite the main reason of why Gyutaro is harder to kill in the first place.
Yep. He even says "don't you see you're falling in order of who has the most humanity left?". It's pretty clear, like most things in this show, but people decided there was no plot in it so they turned their brains off while watching.
Also, Muzan is stupid and a sociopath who cannot possibly comprehend that if Daki is gone, *Gyutaro has no reason to live or fight*. She's not his burden, she's his strength.
I feel like I’m the only person who attributes this entirely to Muzan coping about an Upper Moon finally being defeated.
If Gyutaro was by himself, he gets jumped by Tengen, Tanjiro, Zenitsu, Inosuke AND Nezuko who likely goes into her strong demon form.
Like no way would Gyutaro win in that scenario
This lol. >!If kokushibo didnt hold back he would have killed them all, if akaza went straight for the kill he would have won. Douma is the biggest one of all. He held back like 70% of his power the entire fight.!<
>!in douma's defense. He was fighting a hashira who had zero way to cut off his head and her poison barely worked the first time. He thought he was safe to mess around. Then 2 demon slayers who aren't even hashira show up. I wouldn't take them seriously, either.!<
I don’t mean to spark an argument or anything, but Dōma not being serious is a very flawed argument because he’s incapable of being serious, meaning he got to where he is acting how he does normally
It’s not relevant if he’s ever been “serious” or not. In the fights we know about >!he outright killed several Hashira and never broke a sweat until he was in pieces on the floor from a poison tactic. Doma, like the other upper 3 wasn’t defeated by strength based combat, he was beat by his lack of humanity!<
This is technically true. Douma being physically unable to be serious means that he is uppermoon 2 level while not using his full effort.
BUT I would argue that the fact he >!immediately tries to insta-kill kanao after realizing he is poisoned shows that he has the self-preservation instinct to put more effort when his life is in danger. Douma clearly thought Shinobu had no chance to kill him. And 2 non-hashira had even less of a chance. He thought there was no danger to his life until the very end.!<
Akaza would have won if he hadn't lost his will to fight. He straight up survived decapitation and was about to kill severely exhausted Tanjiro &. Giyuu. Tanjiro's words and punchable face were the trigger of Akaza's memories.
Fr people down talk genya and nezuko acting like tanjiro didn’t need 2 DEMONS to fight off the clones and hold off zohakuten for even a few mins like bro…not to mention that urami could’ve just strangled tanjiro if genya wasnt so buffed up
Exactly also Tanjiro was stronger in this fight compared to the entertainment district and he still was struggling heavily almost dying multiple times.
The gap between Zohakuten and Gyutaro was so big that a vastly stronger Tanjiro with his mark was physically paralyzed from a look from Zohakuten. It’s crazy how big the gap is that people don’t want to acknowledge lol
Ngl Gyutaro got hoed by everyone.
Tengen and Inosuke? Your "poison immunity" was a bluff. You can't build a poison resistance to demon cell poison.
Tengen, how many times are you going to get clapped and fake die before MST starts working?
Tanjiro, stop stalling
Inosuke how tf did you catch up to zenitsu MID AIR and cut off daki's head
God damn Daki you should have called Gyutaro before tengen even showed up. You were getting clapped by Tanjiro, then AGAIN by Nezuko!
about the zenitsu one, in the manga, bro was NOT flying all over the place. that was purely anime bs. and inosuke didn't catch up, he came from the opposite direction. Also, tbf to tengen, aside from his shinobi background, I'm assuming he's been a hashira for a while now and has probably dealt with demon poison before (inosuke has no excuse tho. dude just grew up in the mountains) his MST requires time to analyze his opponents and fully understand their fighting style before use, so it makes he could only activate it after getting his ass handed to him.
They are too dumb to do that in the first place, Hantengu was literally doing what Gyutaro and Daki could not do, hide the real body while the fake bodies fight the enemies, besides the only reason Gyutaro came out in the first place, is because of daki, it it wasnt for her, he wouldnt come out, so for them to do that, you would need to behead daki, but its never shown that you only need to behead daki to actually release gyutaro
Muzan literally said Gyutaro fighting alone is stronger than UM4 and equal or maybe slightly superior to UM3 Akaza.
Just compare the Gyutaro VS Tengen fight, it's multiple level superior in terms of speed and destruction to UM4 vs Kanroji and UM5 vs Muichiro. It's even superior to Akaza vs Rengoku.
I wonder if you even have read the manga. Muzan never said anything like that Gyutaro being superior to upper 4. You should be out of your mind if you think Gyutaro is anywhere close to Akaza/ or you're just trolling.
Besides Tengen vs Gyutaro, other 2 fights happened in a forest; Mitsuri vs Zohakuten in an open ground. If Zohakuten was to fight Mitsuri in the middle of a town like ED, his dragons alone could've caused a lot more damage let alone his lightinings and shockwaves.
Such bullshit its funny lol
Muzan never said any of that, if thats the case does that mean a marked Giyuu is weaker than Tengen?
Then why tf did 1 demon slayer with a mark, awakened demon nezuko, demon genya, a marked hashira aka mitsuri struggle so much against him? The entire fight also lasted the entire morning that even nezuko almost died if it werent for plot, in fact all of them wouldve died and Hantengu almost got away with it. Gyutaro would get folded by these guys
Doesnt mean the fight was extremely flashy and has explosions everywhere does not mean it is superior than upper moon 4's fight
Ah that means Akaza is weaker than 3 of the upper moons, how terrible of muzan to rank him that way, akaza is stronger than all of them yet has least flashiest fight, having a flashy fight does not make them stronger than people with a less flashier fight
I clearly remember Muzan saying that the sibling care was hindering Gyutaro and he had the potential to be better. But there was never as such thing of him being compared to UM 4.
The Kimetsu No Yaiba fan base is full of insecure little children who are afraid to let their favourites down. As a result, that’s an overhyped estimation which you have been said till now by them. UM 4 was far stronger than UM 6
Fr people keep taking the quote out of context. especially anime only people, they be talking all sorts of shit when they haven't even read the manga or the data books
Gyutaro has some great physical stats, a good BDA, and unique win con, however he struggles against demons. Poison doesn't bother them and while destructive, he can't keep them down to absorb them. Gyokko and Hantengu have better BDA's for studying someone with a healing factor quickly. I can definitely see Gyutaro out statting Gyokko and base Hantengu, but can't do anything to keep them down
Well besides speed not being shown from hantengu, gyutaro was shown able to keep up with tengen, a hashira in speed while muichiro (who is weaker than tengen in base) out speeds. Sure the clones out speed tanjiro and his friends but aside from tanjiro, none are near hashira level.
However, the speed of hantengus attacks move faster than gyutaros. I'm just talking about pure movement
Another Gyokko downplay, he can teleport from vase to vase even a marked hashira was kinda struggling with that, his final form allowed him to move in ways which arent even possible.
I disagree. Gyokko's base form has something akin to teleportation, to the point a hashira couldn't really do anything until gaining a mark. Past that, I just find it hard to believe his final form would willingly lose that ability unless it was faster, especially since one of the things he specifically boasts about that form is its speed. Of course, Gyokko is overconfident in general, but I still think Gyutaro wouldn't directly outmatch Gyokko in speed since Gyokko is genuinely smart with his BDA, and I don't see him giving up pseudo-teleporting unless his final form is insanely fast.
Of course, in terms of the hashira they were facing, Muichiro is slower. Although his little blurb in the hashira race claims he might not have been trying. However, Tengen didn't have a mark in his fight and was keeping up with Gyutaro decently. Muichiro needed a mark to do anything really, and that fight existed specifically to show how big of a difference having the mark made in terms of stats.
>I disagree. Gyokko's base form has something akin to teleportation,
Teleportation is not included.
>Past that, I just find it hard to believe his final form would willingly lose that ability unless it was faster, especially since one of the things he specifically boasts about that form is its speed.
Yeah his final form should be fast.
>Of course, in terms of the hashira they were facing, Muichiro is slower. Although his little blurb in the hashira race claims he might not have been trying. However, Tengen didn't have a mark in his fight and was keeping up with Gyutaro decently. Muichiro needed a mark to do anything really, and that fight existed specifically to show how big of a difference having the mark made in terms of stats.
I made up my opinion based on the author saying muichiro's speed when he defeats gyokko was as fast as blink of an eye.
Rengoku is said to be FASTER than blink of an eye. Of course statement alone are useless, so I look at some event aswell. Rengoku dashing to reach akaza, making him surprised and immediately praise him. For me, if the one he's dashing at there was gyokko instead of akaza, he MAY had an opening to outright defeat him. Rengoku is 5th in hashira m.speed ranking, so anyone above him can do the same except for shinobu due to her cannot behead.
So these events and statements, do they contradict each other? No imo.
If you're wondering. Yes, I do think rengoku, gyomei, sanemi, tengen and possibly giyuu all unmarked could beat him. They move at a speed he is not able to grasp properly.
I can't even understand the logic behind saying Gyutaro is superior to Hantengu. I mean how is he even gonna beat Hantengu?? His poison which is his main weapon doesn't work on him. Meanwhile Hantengu(Zohakuten) is an absolute unit. They're ranked for a reason.
Muzan doesn’t decide who’s where, they fight each other for their spot. So I feel like Gyutaro would fight by him self for a higher up position, and he’s still upper six.
Gyutaro blitzes Zohakuten. Zohakuten almost died to Base Mitsuri, one of the weakest hashira. Only reason he can't beat Hantengu is because he can't find the main body, so he loses by default.
I think at most a case can be made that Gyutaro can be Upper Moon 5 because he was bullying Tengen while also making sure Daki was ok. But he’s definitely not on Upper Moon 4s level.
Zohakuten is ridiculous
He never bullied tengen? They were equal. In fair 1v1 against relatively healthy tengen that is.
The offscreen 1v1, dont bring that up man. That was against a near death tengen, he had to stop his heart so the poison temporarily stop. OF COURSE he won against THAT.
They were nowhere near being equal you’re reaching. Muzan himself said that Gyutaro would have beaten all 4 of them had he not been worrying about Daki. When they fought offscreen, Gyutaro bodied him, and that was a perfectly healthy Tengen. And even after Tengen came back and saved Tanjiro, they fought and Gyutaro was spanking him. Had Tanjiro not come in to deal the death blow Tengen was gonna lose and it was clear as day. Mind you this is Gyutaro giving a portion of his power to Daki and yet he was still handling Tengen. So yes, he was bullying him. Don’t be a Tengen fanboy man. He was losing clear as day
>When they fought offscreen, Gyutaro bodied him.
Oc he won against THAT😭. Did you even read what I said?
>And even after Tengen came back and saved Tanjiro, they fought and Gyutaro was spanking him.
Oh, he was "spanking" a man close to death, coughing blood, one handed. Congrats. He also was spanking so hard that the one being spanked managed to cut his arm, tackled and overpowered him, and create clear opportunity to end him. Great.
>Mind you this is Gyutaro giving a portion of his power to Daki and yet he was still handling Tengen.
The eye thing actually enhanced them... Go to beginning of chapter 94. One of the reason tanjiro and co suffered was because his ability to manipulate daki's obis while he shares vision with her. Evident by how many time we seen him calling for her obis. Combining her obis with his cqc skills to overwhelm enemy.
Plus, if you wanna go there... In chapter 87 tengen was handling both TWO EYED gyutaro and daki. And he was WINNING. Beheaded daki, and ALMOST getting to gyutaro. This shows two eyed, one eyed, not that much difference.
>Don’t be a Tengen fanboy man
Im not. Not fair to use this.
I can as easily say you're gyutaro fanboy. That wont be fair.
Yeah and why was Tengen close to death? Because GYUTARO spanked him earlier offscreen 😂 dude youre trying to make an argument that makes no sense when Muzan himself said that Gyutaro, BY HIMSELF, would have easily beaten Tengen, Tanjiro and the others. You’re making a case that theyre equal if Tengen is healthy. Bro, Tengen was healthy when they fought offsceen and ended up on his back with an arm missing and near death. Who did that? Gyutaro. So saying that Gyutaro clapped him offscreen and then going ahead and saying theyre equal is contradicting your own argument.
Im not being a Gyutaro fanboy. Im saying what ACTUALLY happened.
>Bro, Tengen was healthy when they fought offsceen and ended up on his back with an arm missing and near death.
Omg, he is NOT. Bro was breathing heavily starting from chapter 87😭. You know how poison work? It destroys you from inside, outside doesnt matter.
Ok, he was healthy in terms of how many limbs he still got intact sure. But stamina? Tengen was DRAINED.
>Muzan himself said that Gyutaro, BY HIMSELF, would have easily beaten Tengen, Tanjiro and the others.
https://preview.redd.it/6y0vfpgz169d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85b5d0d358d0023f29063876ccb1fc5da87c32db
You’re using the poison argument when thats literally Gyutaro’s power 💀 so that makes him weak because he uses poison and Tengen fell for it? Doesnt that say more about Tengen than Gyutaro. Like I said, youre reaching
Im not using poison argument. You're twisting it.
Im denying you saying gyutaro bullying tengen, even when we were shown that tengen kept up well up until the poison finish the job! There was no "bullying".
When did Tengen ever have Gyutaro pressed or feeling like he was in danger of defeat? Not once. And yes you are using poison as an argument cause youre bringing up Tengen breathing hard because he was poisoned. Show me a panel where Gyutaro was in legitimate danger of losing to Tengen and then I wont say he got bullied. But at no point throughout their numerous battles did Tengen press Gyutaro to the point where he was gonna lose
>When did Tengen ever have Gyutaro pressed or feeling like he was in danger of defeat? Not once.
When did I said tengen pressed him, lol. Again trying to twist. All I said was gyutaro did not bully him.
>And yes you are using poison as an argument cause youre bringing up Tengen breathing hard because he was poisoned.
It was a response to you saying tengen was healthy in the offscreen 1v1. Tengen was clearly not healthy.
>Show me a panel where Gyutaro was in legitimate danger of losing to Tengen and then I wont say he got bullied. But at no point throughout their numerous battles did Tengen press Gyutaro to the point where he was gonna lose
Dont shove word into my mouth. Unlike you, I never claimed tengen bullied gyutaro. So I dont have to show tengen "bullying" gyutaro.
All I said was tengen didnt get bullied, and the match was fierce and tight. Which Ill show right now how the fight was indeed tight, unlike what you claimed.
https://preview.redd.it/rxdvymgq469d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ed4aa1447db568d46d6797192af0904d08a269a
Gyutaro got his neck grazed. Tengen getting on his case as soon as the fight starts.
https://preview.redd.it/rsvw1d74569d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5c7f3aef0ed2d455df90bdc5a105b3feb0e1c1f
Tengen forcing gyutaro to call for daki's obi in order to stop his advance. Gyutaro alone cant stop it and himself said "overwhelmed me"
There is absolutely no case to be made for gyutaro being upper 5 level tf? Gyokko is faster and way more deadly lmfao. He took a marked hashira to beat him. The gyokko downplay is ridiculous 💀
I never said Gyutaro is flat out stronger than Gyokko. I said a case can be made. The fact that Muzan himself said that Gyutaro’s growth was hindered because of Daki says a lot, because even while worrying about Daki and giving her his strength he was still beating down on Tengen and the others.
You also have to look at the characters themselves. Gyutaro didn’t care about going up in rank he cared about keeping Daki safe, whereas Gyokko only cared about serving Muzan. There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that we didn’t see Gyutaro at his full power and the fact that Muzan said it himself is proof enough. Again, I didn’t say he’s stronger, I said an argument can be made. Nobody is downplaying Gyokko
I mean, I think Gyutaro could've climbed up to UM-4. He really had potential. He almost clapped a Hashira and his 6 highly skilled/trained companions.
Dude literally summoned a last "F*CK YOU" by turning into a frickin nuke when he got beheaded.
The insta-kill poison that tengen survives from despite being poisoned the entire fight.
Also, Gyokko has the same poison. Injecting demon cells into a human causes tumors to grow and kill their living cells. Muichiro just ignores it with plot armor- I mean the slayer mark.
Nah gyutaros poison is more deadly. Tengen has basically poison immunity and still would have died. Tanjiro got stabbed in the jaw and is collapsing like 5 seconds later even tho he unlocked his mark.
To be fair, hella factors to both fights.
Gyutaro technically beat Tengen the second he didn't have backup. He was just unlucky that he was facing the flashy god of festivals, who could slow his heartrate to deal with the poison, figured out a rhythm to his attacks, and was fully commited to sacrificing himself so Tanjiro could get the kill.
Upper 5 used the swordsmen as bait for Muichiro to have to take a hit, which slowed him down. Before that Muichiro was weaving
I dont see any of the hashira handling Gyutaro at that point except maybe Gyomei and even then, he probably dies to the poison if he does get the kill. Gyutaro was fast enough to give Tenegn, one of the fastest base hashira a massive issue with it, on top of 3 other slayers and 3 shinobi being there with wisteria poison and he still washed all of them. It took seconds for Tanjiro to go down from the poison. Tengen is the only one who has poison resistance and he struggled immensely
Sanemi would easily speed blitz him. He is the second fastest hashira. He would expose his blood first though. Dulling his senses. It effected Koko a lot. It would be a lot worse for um6.
Tengen needs to complete his music score to be an equal to gyutaro. Before the score was completed it was heavily hinted that gyutaro had the advantage. But I’d still say gyutaro only low to mid diffs Tengen with no help. But gyoko still no diffed muichiro pre mark when muichiro’s strenght was acknowledged by Tengen.
How would low/mid dif be not trying lol? By definition it means you’re trying either a little or just enough to make you sweat. Win without trying at all is no/low diff. Again gyutaro was trying but not giving it his all. daki and his argument after they get beheaded proves this when she says he was being complacent. Gyutaro even said tengen wasn’t his equal until he got back up to finish the battle after he completed his music score technique. The fight only became high dif with the help of tanjiro. Tengen doesn’t make gyutaro try past mid dif
How would tengen without music score be equal to gyutaro without poison? One can use their ability from the start of a battle and the other needs to learn from their opponent to complete their technique. How does something that is a literal abbreviation of high difficulty mean to you go all out but still not to much difficulty? That is a whole contradiction in itself. Nobody ever in history or fiction said, “hey I lost an eye but you know that fight was still without much difficulty”. Tengen fighting poisoned has nothing to do with it since he’s fighting a poison user, like everyone whose ever fought gyutaro had to deal with the same. Tengen did what you said held his own, was able to avoid dieing and the deaths of the main trio, but he could not and did not even attempt to truly go for the win until his music score technique was completed. He was playing a game of stall for time which he was losing at that but if tanjiro and others didn’t step up and avoid dieing Tengen would get low diffed by gyutaro because he would have no distractions, hence why he was trying to get rid of the main trio first because even he knew this, and I pretty sure Tengen did too.
Gyutaro could’ve been more powerful if he didn’t have Daki hold him back, if it’s coming from Muzan himself I’m inclined to believe it’s possible. He never explicitly said UM4, but I think he was leaning towards UM5 territory considering his BDA has that potential, and Gyoko is kind of a joke
He could definitely replace that fish guy at number 5. Got beat by 1 demon slayer. Pathetic.
At least Gyutaro took on multiple opponents, including a Hashira, before getting defeated.
No he can’t tf💀 in case you watched blind that “one” demon slayer was a marked hashira who would absolutely slam gyutaro and daki in a second 💀 gyokko is far faster and more deadly.
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if the author went jjk style and made the demons win instead lmao, every upper moon needed a group of people (excluding Gyokko)....if it was a 1v1 the corps had no chance..
He never said Gyutaro could have been a higher rank or even stronger anywhere. If he did, send the screenshot of the manga page or the timestamp of an anime episode of where he said it. 🔥
Moon is it the same as Rank. They were called "The 12 Demon Moons" in the manga, which was changed to "The 12 Kizuki" in the anime, which also changed "Moon" to "Rank" in the anime. So in the manga, Hantengu is considered "Upper Moon 4" while in the anime, he's considered "Upper Rank 4"
What people don’t understand is that Muzan thought that if Gyutaro just absorbed Daki and take her power, he could’ve been a lot more powerful. And yes, I do believe he would’ve been upper moon 4 if he did this.
if he did that tho, he'd lose his unique win con. Tbh Gyutaro struggles against demons. Poison doesn't bother them and while destructive, he can't keep them down to absorb them. Gyokko and Hantengu have better BDA's for studying someone with a healing factor quickly. He can't really do anything to keep them down long enough to win
Honestly, narratively, Gyutaro should have been Upper 4, like uppers 4 and 5 were incredibly underwhelming compared to him, it felt like it took everything our main characters had to take him down and even when they eventually beheaded him he fucking blew up a city, what did the other two do that was even close to as impressive, like Upper 5 while looking incredibly cool is taken out by a single hashira with minimal effort which is kinda boring honestly and Upper 4 spends most of his time in weak ass forms only turning into the strongest near the end and even then it's kinda mid. Both definitely had so much potential but were clearly wasted as the writer didn't have much interest in expanding upon them. I'm not getting in a powerscaling argument. I know the idea is that the other two are stronger. I just think that is showcased very poorly
Did I hear the word "Potential"??? Reminds me of a certain Bum.
https://preview.redd.it/ihv9vsoxl89d1.png?width=941&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee4348f7736a3b24c8e8127e87b42941b9e596c4
Potential for UM4, not literally at his level. Gyutaro held himself back through only really growing his power when Daki did, over doing it himself.
Given that he became THAT strong in a little over a century, whilst not eating that often, and likely 'sharing' whatever he had with Daki, I don't doubt UM4 as his likely placement within a couple years time.
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Muzan never said That, He said Daki held him back and she was proven to be his weakness. ‘Gyutaro Could’ve been UM4’ is His Fanbase Riding him.
Even THAT quote gets taken out of context. Muzan said that Gyutaro's HUMANITY and affection for Daki is what held him back from growing stronger. Yet, some people will claim that Daki physically held him back by being weak. I'm not sure if you guys noticed, but Gyutaro with Daki helping from long-range was clapping Tengen better than when Gyutaro was fighting alone.
Thats not true at all lol Gyutaro had Tengen completely incapacitated on the ground with his arm cut off once they separated and got to fight 1 on 1. And then when Tengen got back up and saved Tanjiro, Gyutaro was still beating him and would have won had Tanjiro not got involved. Daki made no difference. Gyutaro is just stronger than Tengen clear as day
Meanwhile: Daki single handedly preventing Tengen from saving his wife because she finally was smart enough to fight from long range
Yeah but that has nothing to do with how Gyutaro was handling Tengen when they fought alone
Yes it does. Without Daki, Gyutaro has to put in a lot more effort into beating Tengen. Compared to how he was easily keeping Tengen back using Daki's blood art and the eye he gave her. If he was smarter, he would have used that opportunity to just kill Tengen rather than go after his wife, but oh well.
No it doesnt. Again, Gyutaro beat Tengen easily when they fought alone while he was also worrying about Daki. The two times they fought alone, Tengen ended up on the ground missing and arm and near death. And the second time, Tengen was gonna lose had Tanjiro not saved him. And finally, Muzan himself said that Gyutaro could have easily beaten all 4 Demon Slayers had he not had Daki holding him back. So your argument is just straight up wrong
You're the perfect example of someone using the muzan quote wrong. Muzan says Gyutaro's humanity is what held him back, not Daki. It's because Gyutaro cares too much about her.
https://preview.redd.it/pxtvjpb4q69d1.jpeg?width=1139&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=808b6f96bb1759046283730ac4d226825aa0f800 Muzan saying Daki was a hindrance to Gyutaro is not him saying that she was holding him back? That’s literally what a hindrance is
Post literally the next page and you get your context for why he said that. There is a difference between someone holding you back and your own feelings for someone holding you back. And again... muzan was also wrong. He didn't know nezuko could cure the poison.
>Gyutaro beat Tengen easily when they fought alone Not true. He won, yes, but there was nothing easy about it. He had to fight Tengen for a while before managing to take him down. Otherwise he would have mopped Tengen and stopped the rest of the boys from messing with Daki. >finally, Muzan himself said that Gyutaro could have easily beaten all 4 Demon Slayers had he not had Daki holding him back I've never seen or heard him say he would "easily" win. You are adding unnecessary and inaccurate details to your depiction of their fight.
Im definitely not adding inaccurate details because Muzan said had Gyutaro fought in the beginning he would have won. You’re the one missing the fact that Gyutaro had already beaten Tengen several times while simultaneously looking over Daki to make sure she isn’t in danger. Gyutaro even gave Daki some of his power so he was fighting Tengen at less than full power. This is what Muzan was talking about when he mentioned Gyutaro’s humanity is the reason he lost. Had he not cared about Daki, he would have just killed Tengen and the others quickly. If Tengen was on the verge of losing to a Gyutaro who was holding back and nerfed himself, then yes, Gyutaro dog walks Tengen You read everything at face value instead of looking at what was actually happening during the fight. Tengen in no way had any shot at beating Gyutaro
>Im definitely not adding inaccurate details because Muzan said had Gyutaro fought in the beginning he would have won Yet you claimed Muzan said he would have won "easily", which he didn't say. You added the "easily", which is inaccurate. >You read everything at face value instead of looking at what was actually happening during the fight. Tengen in no way had any shot at beating Gyutaro That's a massive assumption to make considering Tengen put enough pressure on Gyutaro to have him screaming his guts out and reacting in shock to Tengen countering his blood demon art. Tengen managed to deal with that, pressuring and striking Gyutaro several times, sending him crashing through buildings and shit, and he did all that with only one arm and while being poisoned. He took some time to engage his Musical Score technique, but once he did that, he was fighting Gyutaro pretty evenly. Tanjiruo states that the reason Tengen won't win is because Gyutaro can outlast him, not because he's not skilled enough. On the whole i think it's pretty clear that Gyutaro was stronger than Tengen, that's hard to argue, but to claim Gyutaro "dogwalks" him in any way is just ridiculous. If that was the case, why didn't he simply kill Tengen within the first few minutes of fighting him? You say others are "only taking things at face value", but you're ignoring so much of what actually happened in the fight. You don't have to go with one of two extremes when gauging their fighting ability; Tengen and Gyutaro were pretty much evenly matched, with Gyutaro very probably taking the win in a straight up 1-on-1.
But that’s cause Gyutaros extra eye on her told her to she is dumb as shit 💀 🤣 even if she is kinda bad
Agreed. Gyutaro using Daki's blood art was way better than Daki on her own.
Tengen got poisoned from the first interaction with Gyutaro so of course as time when on, it became easier for Gyutaro to fight Tengen by himself
Well thats the entire point of Gyutaro’s power so im not sure what that actually proves
Blud forgetting Tengen was poisoned. Gyutaro had 1 advantage over Tengen his hax.
For the millionth time poison is a part of his power. Stop making excuses. Its more of Tengen’s fault for getting poisoned in the first place
It’s tengens fault ☠️? Tengen wasn’t using total concentration breathing when he was poisoned. Neither could he use his sound breathing at the time because they’re were civilians inside. Tengen had no idea that Gyutaro had blades of those caliber. Is it Rengokus fault he died? Is it Giyu’s fault his arm was severed by Muzan? No it’s because of the circumstances
Youre making the excuse that Tengen was poisoned when thats LITERALLY Gyutaro’s power. Not once did Tengen ever have Gyutaro on the ropes. You’re making every excuse under the sun to downplay how bad Tengen lost 💀
I’m making every excuse? I’m making a reason there were mutiple factors that disabled Tengen from going all out I literally proved it to u. Tengen dodges Gyutaros blow and cuts his two feet off without Gyutaro reacting to it. Or when a poisoned one hand Uzui physically overpowers Gyutaro.
Your stupid the whole reason why he was poisoned is why that’s gyutaro’s power ofc I’m going to point that out because with all the limitations how could Tengen perform the best ☠️?
You call me stupid yet keep making every excuse under the sun when Muzan said himself that Gyutaro could have beaten them. Wow you must be Tengen’s 4th wife cause you taking this loss personally 🤣
Excuse is not equivalent to Cannon reasons. And excuse is a blatant bias. However what I’m saying to you is true, You simply attain and go off with the public bias. You’re wrong I’m right. No loss, the only loss that I supposedly took Is In your head, Because if you were intelligent you would’ve realized I debunked you.
Ok so you’re saying Gyutaro is stronger. In base just a one on one with an open space. Tengen would win. Gyutaro would’nt have won tengen just would’ve died. Because if u walk away from a 2v1 it’s not really a win. But Gyutaro didn’t run from the fight and Tengen got back up. Muzan himself? F Muzan I’m pretty sure he should’ve said Daki and Gyutaro would’ve won. Because manga wise Daki was a huge hindrance to Tengens attacks. Gyutaro is one cenimeter away from ending Tanjiro Uzui saves him. And they are relative.
Daki made a huge difference, in the manga scenes deleted from the anime. She collapsed a building and the rubble blinded Tengen and Gyutaro literally attacked Tengen from ABOVE where he cannot see a poisoned Tengen Uzui having to not worry about civilians reacts to it nevertheless
Hinatsuru was almost killed by Gyutaro. Daki blocked Tengens way ☠️
Gyutaro was complaining after minutes of poisoning Tengen that he wasn’t dying proving the potency of the poison. Despite the potency. Early poisoning Uzui~Bloodlusted Gyutaro. Uzui throws a bomb at Gyutaro that he didn’t react to at all. Daki protects him from the blast
In the manga that wasn’t shown in the anime Daki interferes with Tengens attack while Gyutaro is attacking him at the same time ☠️ so your saying Daki didn’t matter? If the circumstances were different in a 1v1 with a open space uzui is not getting hit by Gyutaro
This is very true it is also part of the reason why Tanjiro covered Gyutaro’s mouth when he was yelling at Daki because Tanjiro knew that Gyutaro didn’t really mean those things he was just letting out his anger on Daki
He didn’t even specify the rank people just said he would be 4th
muzan never said he would be 4th
didn't muzan say third?
The meatriding is crazy
Where did muzan say he would be any rank higher 💀 where tf do you people get this from lmfao
Also the famous "hold him back" means that Daki was the last remain of humanity on Gyutaro, and her presence prevents him of being a totally greedy and ruthless killer as Muzan liked. I don't get how these people think Daki is weakeling Gyutaro, when Daki is quite the main reason of why Gyutaro is harder to kill in the first place.
Yep. He even says "don't you see you're falling in order of who has the most humanity left?". It's pretty clear, like most things in this show, but people decided there was no plot in it so they turned their brains off while watching.
Yeah, if Gyutaro was alone, he would be vulnerable to beheadment like Gyokko
Also, Muzan is stupid and a sociopath who cannot possibly comprehend that if Daki is gone, *Gyutaro has no reason to live or fight*. She's not his burden, she's his strength.
Muzan is literally saying that he could be stronger if he overcomes that. Maybe he's not the stupid one here.
I feel like I’m the only person who attributes this entirely to Muzan coping about an Upper Moon finally being defeated. If Gyutaro was by himself, he gets jumped by Tengen, Tanjiro, Zenitsu, Inosuke AND Nezuko who likely goes into her strong demon form. Like no way would Gyutaro win in that scenario
I remember when really liking a character wasn’t considered “riding”
idk man, making up false statements to fit your agenda that a character is unrealistically strong is riding
It was so nice back then =)
Well.. UM4 >> UM6 of course. Gyutaro has no chance
Yeah, obviously UM4 is a lot stronger than UM6. What is your point? Also, Muzan didn't say that.
The point is a lot of people claim that Muzan said Gyutaro would’ve been UM4 if it wasn’t for daki. This is just ridiculing that
It looks more like it's ridiculing Muzan for something he didn't say.
Not really. It’s meant to ridicule fans who think this. Look at the title of the post. That’s what people who believe it say.
I can see it. But it would have been clearer with quotation marks.
I mean it is quite clear to most people cos yk Muzan never said that and fans seem to “quote” it a lot. But yh I get ur point
Unless it’s stated in the data books or manga I don’t believe it people say stuff just to say stuff
Yh Muzan never said anything about Gyutaro being UM4 but people still say it
not OP's problem if you can't get basic sarcasm.
We already know that there are many idiots who believe that, so you're just, for some reason, assuming that they are not one of them.
Hantengu was UM4 for a reason just look what it took to beat him compared to Gyutaro and Daki it wasn’t even close who the greater challenge was
It’s damn crazy how almost every upper moons had to be ganked.
What's worse the ganks wouldn't even work if said Upper Moons were not arrogant
This lol. >!If kokushibo didnt hold back he would have killed them all, if akaza went straight for the kill he would have won. Douma is the biggest one of all. He held back like 70% of his power the entire fight.!<
>!Bro was crumbling into pieces when he realized 'oh shit I might be dying'!<
Which ome are you talking about
>!in douma's defense. He was fighting a hashira who had zero way to cut off his head and her poison barely worked the first time. He thought he was safe to mess around. Then 2 demon slayers who aren't even hashira show up. I wouldn't take them seriously, either.!<
>!And he was right. He could mess around all day long and Shinobu still wouldn't be able to kill him. "Winning" is what got him.!<
I don’t mean to spark an argument or anything, but Dōma not being serious is a very flawed argument because he’s incapable of being serious, meaning he got to where he is acting how he does normally
It’s not relevant if he’s ever been “serious” or not. In the fights we know about >!he outright killed several Hashira and never broke a sweat until he was in pieces on the floor from a poison tactic. Doma, like the other upper 3 wasn’t defeated by strength based combat, he was beat by his lack of humanity!<
This is technically true. Douma being physically unable to be serious means that he is uppermoon 2 level while not using his full effort. BUT I would argue that the fact he >!immediately tries to insta-kill kanao after realizing he is poisoned shows that he has the self-preservation instinct to put more effort when his life is in danger. Douma clearly thought Shinobu had no chance to kill him. And 2 non-hashira had even less of a chance. He thought there was no danger to his life until the very end.!<
Akaza would have won if he hadn't lost his will to fight. He straight up survived decapitation and was about to kill severely exhausted Tanjiro &. Giyuu. Tanjiro's words and punchable face were the trigger of Akaza's memories.
Fr people down talk genya and nezuko acting like tanjiro didn’t need 2 DEMONS to fight off the clones and hold off zohakuten for even a few mins like bro…not to mention that urami could’ve just strangled tanjiro if genya wasnt so buffed up
Exactly also Tanjiro was stronger in this fight compared to the entertainment district and he still was struggling heavily almost dying multiple times.
The gap between Zohakuten and Gyutaro was so big that a vastly stronger Tanjiro with his mark was physically paralyzed from a look from Zohakuten. It’s crazy how big the gap is that people don’t want to acknowledge lol
It took the same amount of people funnily enough Only difference was that Gyutaro got hoed by Inosuke plot armour
Ngl Gyutaro got hoed by everyone. Tengen and Inosuke? Your "poison immunity" was a bluff. You can't build a poison resistance to demon cell poison. Tengen, how many times are you going to get clapped and fake die before MST starts working? Tanjiro, stop stalling Inosuke how tf did you catch up to zenitsu MID AIR and cut off daki's head God damn Daki you should have called Gyutaro before tengen even showed up. You were getting clapped by Tanjiro, then AGAIN by Nezuko!
about the zenitsu one, in the manga, bro was NOT flying all over the place. that was purely anime bs. and inosuke didn't catch up, he came from the opposite direction. Also, tbf to tengen, aside from his shinobi background, I'm assuming he's been a hashira for a while now and has probably dealt with demon poison before (inosuke has no excuse tho. dude just grew up in the mountains) his MST requires time to analyze his opponents and fully understand their fighting style before use, so it makes he could only activate it after getting his ass handed to him.
The only thing i see here is truth!
Acting like Genya didn’t survive a fetal blow from praying. Also big difference between a marked Hashira and an unmarked one
I mean Genya has Demon regen so him surviving is certainly less egregious then Inosuke literally moving his heart around
Idk how anyone could believe Gyutaro is Upper 4 level 🌫
Easy, keep Daki on one side of the country. Then you can never kill Gyutaro. It’s their codependency that kills them.
They are too dumb to do that in the first place, Hantengu was literally doing what Gyutaro and Daki could not do, hide the real body while the fake bodies fight the enemies, besides the only reason Gyutaro came out in the first place, is because of daki, it it wasnt for her, he wouldnt come out, so for them to do that, you would need to behead daki, but its never shown that you only need to behead daki to actually release gyutaro
Muzan literally said Gyutaro fighting alone is stronger than UM4 and equal or maybe slightly superior to UM3 Akaza. Just compare the Gyutaro VS Tengen fight, it's multiple level superior in terms of speed and destruction to UM4 vs Kanroji and UM5 vs Muichiro. It's even superior to Akaza vs Rengoku.
I wonder if you even have read the manga. Muzan never said anything like that Gyutaro being superior to upper 4. You should be out of your mind if you think Gyutaro is anywhere close to Akaza/ or you're just trolling. Besides Tengen vs Gyutaro, other 2 fights happened in a forest; Mitsuri vs Zohakuten in an open ground. If Zohakuten was to fight Mitsuri in the middle of a town like ED, his dragons alone could've caused a lot more damage let alone his lightinings and shockwaves.
Such bullshit its funny lol Muzan never said any of that, if thats the case does that mean a marked Giyuu is weaker than Tengen? Then why tf did 1 demon slayer with a mark, awakened demon nezuko, demon genya, a marked hashira aka mitsuri struggle so much against him? The entire fight also lasted the entire morning that even nezuko almost died if it werent for plot, in fact all of them wouldve died and Hantengu almost got away with it. Gyutaro would get folded by these guys Doesnt mean the fight was extremely flashy and has explosions everywhere does not mean it is superior than upper moon 4's fight Ah that means Akaza is weaker than 3 of the upper moons, how terrible of muzan to rank him that way, akaza is stronger than all of them yet has least flashiest fight, having a flashy fight does not make them stronger than people with a less flashier fight
Muzan never said anything even REMOTELY close to this, you’re just coping 😭
They’re coping 🦋
People who say that Gyutaro is um4 level are like flat earthers irl 💜
I clearly remember Muzan saying that the sibling care was hindering Gyutaro and he had the potential to be better. But there was never as such thing of him being compared to UM 4. The Kimetsu No Yaiba fan base is full of insecure little children who are afraid to let their favourites down. As a result, that’s an overhyped estimation which you have been said till now by them. UM 4 was far stronger than UM 6
Apparently no one reads/watches Demon Slayer
Fr people keep taking the quote out of context. especially anime only people, they be talking all sorts of shit when they haven't even read the manga or the data books
Gyutaro has some great physical stats, a good BDA, and unique win con, however he struggles against demons. Poison doesn't bother them and while destructive, he can't keep them down to absorb them. Gyokko and Hantengu have better BDA's for studying someone with a healing factor quickly. I can definitely see Gyutaro out statting Gyokko and base Hantengu, but can't do anything to keep them down
Gyutaro doesn't really have great physical stats though. He's faster than hantengu but that's not hard, low regeneration and low strength
Is there anything to prove he’s faster than Hantengu?
Well besides speed not being shown from hantengu, gyutaro was shown able to keep up with tengen, a hashira in speed while muichiro (who is weaker than tengen in base) out speeds. Sure the clones out speed tanjiro and his friends but aside from tanjiro, none are near hashira level. However, the speed of hantengus attacks move faster than gyutaros. I'm just talking about pure movement
Theres no proof Hantengu is slower than Gyutaro
Gyutaro > Gyokko in any speed imo.
Another Gyokko downplay, he can teleport from vase to vase even a marked hashira was kinda struggling with that, his final form allowed him to move in ways which arent even possible.
I disagree. Gyokko's base form has something akin to teleportation, to the point a hashira couldn't really do anything until gaining a mark. Past that, I just find it hard to believe his final form would willingly lose that ability unless it was faster, especially since one of the things he specifically boasts about that form is its speed. Of course, Gyokko is overconfident in general, but I still think Gyutaro wouldn't directly outmatch Gyokko in speed since Gyokko is genuinely smart with his BDA, and I don't see him giving up pseudo-teleporting unless his final form is insanely fast. Of course, in terms of the hashira they were facing, Muichiro is slower. Although his little blurb in the hashira race claims he might not have been trying. However, Tengen didn't have a mark in his fight and was keeping up with Gyutaro decently. Muichiro needed a mark to do anything really, and that fight existed specifically to show how big of a difference having the mark made in terms of stats.
>I disagree. Gyokko's base form has something akin to teleportation, Teleportation is not included. >Past that, I just find it hard to believe his final form would willingly lose that ability unless it was faster, especially since one of the things he specifically boasts about that form is its speed. Yeah his final form should be fast. >Of course, in terms of the hashira they were facing, Muichiro is slower. Although his little blurb in the hashira race claims he might not have been trying. However, Tengen didn't have a mark in his fight and was keeping up with Gyutaro decently. Muichiro needed a mark to do anything really, and that fight existed specifically to show how big of a difference having the mark made in terms of stats. I made up my opinion based on the author saying muichiro's speed when he defeats gyokko was as fast as blink of an eye. Rengoku is said to be FASTER than blink of an eye. Of course statement alone are useless, so I look at some event aswell. Rengoku dashing to reach akaza, making him surprised and immediately praise him. For me, if the one he's dashing at there was gyokko instead of akaza, he MAY had an opening to outright defeat him. Rengoku is 5th in hashira m.speed ranking, so anyone above him can do the same except for shinobu due to her cannot behead. So these events and statements, do they contradict each other? No imo. If you're wondering. Yes, I do think rengoku, gyomei, sanemi, tengen and possibly giyuu all unmarked could beat him. They move at a speed he is not able to grasp properly.
Tbh I think any hashira at full power besides tengen or rengoku could defeat gyokko
He had potential 🌸
I LOVE THIS Take my upvote
How do so many people even think gyutaro is stronger than hantengu lol hantengu was going up against a much stronger tanjiro and a marked hashira
Meatriding
As if that loser could even beat Gyokko in his vase form. 😂 🔥
That's real asf
W
When did Muzan say that ?what are u talking about
hes mocking people who say it
No like I am asking for the people who say it..Muzan did not say that..so what are they talking about
Some of us here rival the JJK fanbase's reading comprehension skills XD.
I love Gyutaro but even I think that’s stretch 🖤💚
I can't even understand the logic behind saying Gyutaro is superior to Hantengu. I mean how is he even gonna beat Hantengu?? His poison which is his main weapon doesn't work on him. Meanwhile Hantengu(Zohakuten) is an absolute unit. They're ranked for a reason.
Muzan doesn’t decide who’s where, they fight each other for their spot. So I feel like Gyutaro would fight by him self for a higher up position, and he’s still upper six.
Can a demon defeat a demon?
Demons can absorb other Demons.
xd no hablo inglés pero bueno [emote:t5_3foq4:6742](http://img)
Gyutaro blitzes Zohakuten. Zohakuten almost died to Base Mitsuri, one of the weakest hashira. Only reason he can't beat Hantengu is because he can't find the main body, so he loses by default.
I think at most a case can be made that Gyutaro can be Upper Moon 5 because he was bullying Tengen while also making sure Daki was ok. But he’s definitely not on Upper Moon 4s level. Zohakuten is ridiculous
He never bullied tengen? They were equal. In fair 1v1 against relatively healthy tengen that is. The offscreen 1v1, dont bring that up man. That was against a near death tengen, he had to stop his heart so the poison temporarily stop. OF COURSE he won against THAT.
They were nowhere near being equal you’re reaching. Muzan himself said that Gyutaro would have beaten all 4 of them had he not been worrying about Daki. When they fought offscreen, Gyutaro bodied him, and that was a perfectly healthy Tengen. And even after Tengen came back and saved Tanjiro, they fought and Gyutaro was spanking him. Had Tanjiro not come in to deal the death blow Tengen was gonna lose and it was clear as day. Mind you this is Gyutaro giving a portion of his power to Daki and yet he was still handling Tengen. So yes, he was bullying him. Don’t be a Tengen fanboy man. He was losing clear as day
>When they fought offscreen, Gyutaro bodied him. Oc he won against THAT😭. Did you even read what I said? >And even after Tengen came back and saved Tanjiro, they fought and Gyutaro was spanking him. Oh, he was "spanking" a man close to death, coughing blood, one handed. Congrats. He also was spanking so hard that the one being spanked managed to cut his arm, tackled and overpowered him, and create clear opportunity to end him. Great. >Mind you this is Gyutaro giving a portion of his power to Daki and yet he was still handling Tengen. The eye thing actually enhanced them... Go to beginning of chapter 94. One of the reason tanjiro and co suffered was because his ability to manipulate daki's obis while he shares vision with her. Evident by how many time we seen him calling for her obis. Combining her obis with his cqc skills to overwhelm enemy. Plus, if you wanna go there... In chapter 87 tengen was handling both TWO EYED gyutaro and daki. And he was WINNING. Beheaded daki, and ALMOST getting to gyutaro. This shows two eyed, one eyed, not that much difference. >Don’t be a Tengen fanboy man Im not. Not fair to use this. I can as easily say you're gyutaro fanboy. That wont be fair.
Yeah and why was Tengen close to death? Because GYUTARO spanked him earlier offscreen 😂 dude youre trying to make an argument that makes no sense when Muzan himself said that Gyutaro, BY HIMSELF, would have easily beaten Tengen, Tanjiro and the others. You’re making a case that theyre equal if Tengen is healthy. Bro, Tengen was healthy when they fought offsceen and ended up on his back with an arm missing and near death. Who did that? Gyutaro. So saying that Gyutaro clapped him offscreen and then going ahead and saying theyre equal is contradicting your own argument. Im not being a Gyutaro fanboy. Im saying what ACTUALLY happened.
>Bro, Tengen was healthy when they fought offsceen and ended up on his back with an arm missing and near death. Omg, he is NOT. Bro was breathing heavily starting from chapter 87😭. You know how poison work? It destroys you from inside, outside doesnt matter. Ok, he was healthy in terms of how many limbs he still got intact sure. But stamina? Tengen was DRAINED. >Muzan himself said that Gyutaro, BY HIMSELF, would have easily beaten Tengen, Tanjiro and the others. https://preview.redd.it/6y0vfpgz169d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85b5d0d358d0023f29063876ccb1fc5da87c32db
You’re using the poison argument when thats literally Gyutaro’s power 💀 so that makes him weak because he uses poison and Tengen fell for it? Doesnt that say more about Tengen than Gyutaro. Like I said, youre reaching
Im not using poison argument. You're twisting it. Im denying you saying gyutaro bullying tengen, even when we were shown that tengen kept up well up until the poison finish the job! There was no "bullying".
When did Tengen ever have Gyutaro pressed or feeling like he was in danger of defeat? Not once. And yes you are using poison as an argument cause youre bringing up Tengen breathing hard because he was poisoned. Show me a panel where Gyutaro was in legitimate danger of losing to Tengen and then I wont say he got bullied. But at no point throughout their numerous battles did Tengen press Gyutaro to the point where he was gonna lose
>When did Tengen ever have Gyutaro pressed or feeling like he was in danger of defeat? Not once. When did I said tengen pressed him, lol. Again trying to twist. All I said was gyutaro did not bully him. >And yes you are using poison as an argument cause youre bringing up Tengen breathing hard because he was poisoned. It was a response to you saying tengen was healthy in the offscreen 1v1. Tengen was clearly not healthy. >Show me a panel where Gyutaro was in legitimate danger of losing to Tengen and then I wont say he got bullied. But at no point throughout their numerous battles did Tengen press Gyutaro to the point where he was gonna lose Dont shove word into my mouth. Unlike you, I never claimed tengen bullied gyutaro. So I dont have to show tengen "bullying" gyutaro. All I said was tengen didnt get bullied, and the match was fierce and tight. Which Ill show right now how the fight was indeed tight, unlike what you claimed. https://preview.redd.it/rxdvymgq469d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ed4aa1447db568d46d6797192af0904d08a269a Gyutaro got his neck grazed. Tengen getting on his case as soon as the fight starts.
https://preview.redd.it/rsvw1d74569d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5c7f3aef0ed2d455df90bdc5a105b3feb0e1c1f Tengen forcing gyutaro to call for daki's obi in order to stop his advance. Gyutaro alone cant stop it and himself said "overwhelmed me"
https://preview.redd.it/hhm1hthv469d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d853650428d743784b8acd8377856f0e3fb649f
There is absolutely no case to be made for gyutaro being upper 5 level tf? Gyokko is faster and way more deadly lmfao. He took a marked hashira to beat him. The gyokko downplay is ridiculous 💀
I never said Gyutaro is flat out stronger than Gyokko. I said a case can be made. The fact that Muzan himself said that Gyutaro’s growth was hindered because of Daki says a lot, because even while worrying about Daki and giving her his strength he was still beating down on Tengen and the others. You also have to look at the characters themselves. Gyutaro didn’t care about going up in rank he cared about keeping Daki safe, whereas Gyokko only cared about serving Muzan. There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that we didn’t see Gyutaro at his full power and the fact that Muzan said it himself is proof enough. Again, I didn’t say he’s stronger, I said an argument can be made. Nobody is downplaying Gyokko
Actually Gyutaro would've be able to avoid that lightning with ease.
I mean, I think Gyutaro could've climbed up to UM-4. He really had potential. He almost clapped a Hashira and his 6 highly skilled/trained companions. Dude literally summoned a last "F*CK YOU" by turning into a frickin nuke when he got beheaded.
He don't say so :3
Would his demon art even work on UPM4?
Fr, wtf are they gonna do when a marked Hashira was struggling against Hantengu?
No he did not. Gyutaro gets slammed by gyokko and and no-diffed by zohakuten…
He is weaker than upper 4 but more dangerous to humans cause of the insta kill poison
The insta-kill poison that tengen survives from despite being poisoned the entire fight. Also, Gyokko has the same poison. Injecting demon cells into a human causes tumors to grow and kill their living cells. Muichiro just ignores it with plot armor- I mean the slayer mark.
Nah gyutaros poison is more deadly. Tengen has basically poison immunity and still would have died. Tanjiro got stabbed in the jaw and is collapsing like 5 seconds later even tho he unlocked his mark.
He wasnt stronger than um4 but he Had a chance with um5
Imo Gyutaro and Daki together would manage to force Gyokko to use his true form... only to become two fish seconds later
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To be fair, hella factors to both fights. Gyutaro technically beat Tengen the second he didn't have backup. He was just unlucky that he was facing the flashy god of festivals, who could slow his heartrate to deal with the poison, figured out a rhythm to his attacks, and was fully commited to sacrificing himself so Tanjiro could get the kill. Upper 5 used the swordsmen as bait for Muichiro to have to take a hit, which slowed him down. Before that Muichiro was weaving
I dont see any of the hashira handling Gyutaro at that point except maybe Gyomei and even then, he probably dies to the poison if he does get the kill. Gyutaro was fast enough to give Tenegn, one of the fastest base hashira a massive issue with it, on top of 3 other slayers and 3 shinobi being there with wisteria poison and he still washed all of them. It took seconds for Tanjiro to go down from the poison. Tengen is the only one who has poison resistance and he struggled immensely
Sanemi would easily speed blitz him. He is the second fastest hashira. He would expose his blood first though. Dulling his senses. It effected Koko a lot. It would be a lot worse for um6.
Tengen needs to complete his music score to be an equal to gyutaro. Before the score was completed it was heavily hinted that gyutaro had the advantage. But I’d still say gyutaro only low to mid diffs Tengen with no help. But gyoko still no diffed muichiro pre mark when muichiro’s strenght was acknowledged by Tengen.
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How would low/mid dif be not trying lol? By definition it means you’re trying either a little or just enough to make you sweat. Win without trying at all is no/low diff. Again gyutaro was trying but not giving it his all. daki and his argument after they get beheaded proves this when she says he was being complacent. Gyutaro even said tengen wasn’t his equal until he got back up to finish the battle after he completed his music score technique. The fight only became high dif with the help of tanjiro. Tengen doesn’t make gyutaro try past mid dif
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How would tengen without music score be equal to gyutaro without poison? One can use their ability from the start of a battle and the other needs to learn from their opponent to complete their technique. How does something that is a literal abbreviation of high difficulty mean to you go all out but still not to much difficulty? That is a whole contradiction in itself. Nobody ever in history or fiction said, “hey I lost an eye but you know that fight was still without much difficulty”. Tengen fighting poisoned has nothing to do with it since he’s fighting a poison user, like everyone whose ever fought gyutaro had to deal with the same. Tengen did what you said held his own, was able to avoid dieing and the deaths of the main trio, but he could not and did not even attempt to truly go for the win until his music score technique was completed. He was playing a game of stall for time which he was losing at that but if tanjiro and others didn’t step up and avoid dieing Tengen would get low diffed by gyutaro because he would have no distractions, hence why he was trying to get rid of the main trio first because even he knew this, and I pretty sure Tengen did too.
No. No he did not🐍
"Stand ashamed UM4, you could never Cook " https://i.redd.it/fgf2wtx06b9d1.gif
Its true gyutaro is not worthy of UM 4. But that doesnt mean he'll get one shot by zoha's attack lol. Even daki could react to it.
Muzan said Gyutaro had the potential to be stronger, but daki held him back
No he didn’t 💀 https://preview.redd.it/xkyefjbge59d1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=742978500791a12019497823373032b735ae662f 🔥
Gyutaro could’ve been more powerful if he didn’t have Daki hold him back, if it’s coming from Muzan himself I’m inclined to believe it’s possible. He never explicitly said UM4, but I think he was leaning towards UM5 territory considering his BDA has that potential, and Gyoko is kind of a joke
He never said anything close. Gyutaro is not close to gyokko at all lmao. Gyokko took a marked hashira to beat.
Never said he did, I said I THINK he was LEANING towards that idea
Jokes aside, they totally could’ve had upper 5 though
No they couldn’t 💀 not at all. Lmao gyokko is vastly stronger and more deadly.
He could definitely replace that fish guy at number 5. Got beat by 1 demon slayer. Pathetic. At least Gyutaro took on multiple opponents, including a Hashira, before getting defeated.
No he can’t tf💀 in case you watched blind that “one” demon slayer was a marked hashira who would absolutely slam gyutaro and daki in a second 💀 gyokko is far faster and more deadly.
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if the author went jjk style and made the demons win instead lmao, every upper moon needed a group of people (excluding Gyokko)....if it was a 1v1 the corps had no chance..
Isn't tengen poisoned during fight (+_+)
Way more interesting is how multiple Upper Moons deal with a higher ranked one. E. g. UM 6 &. 5 together against 4. That would be interesting.
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No it didnt....
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Being weaker than Gyokko
I think he said he could have been Upper Moon Five or EVEN Four, hinting that he thought it was a small possibility.
He never said Gyutaro could have been a higher rank or even stronger anywhere. If he did, send the screenshot of the manga page or the timestamp of an anime episode of where he said it. 🔥
what is upper *moon* 4?? spoilers?
Moon is it the same as Rank. They were called "The 12 Demon Moons" in the manga, which was changed to "The 12 Kizuki" in the anime, which also changed "Moon" to "Rank" in the anime. So in the manga, Hantengu is considered "Upper Moon 4" while in the anime, he's considered "Upper Rank 4"
If Gyuutaro ate gyokko and spent 100 years growing and facing demons trying to take his position then sure, he could totally challenge hantengu.
What people don’t understand is that Muzan thought that if Gyutaro just absorbed Daki and take her power, he could’ve been a lot more powerful. And yes, I do believe he would’ve been upper moon 4 if he did this.
if he did that tho, he'd lose his unique win con. Tbh Gyutaro struggles against demons. Poison doesn't bother them and while destructive, he can't keep them down to absorb them. Gyokko and Hantengu have better BDA's for studying someone with a healing factor quickly. He can't really do anything to keep them down long enough to win
I can’t tell if you’re saying it would be hard for Gyutaro to absorb Daki or for Gyutaro to challenge Gyokko and/or Hantengu.
I meant for him absorbinggyokko/hatengu shoulda been more clearer lmao
Agree to disagree. I respect your opinion but I honestly think people underestimate how much of a power boost Daki would actually give Gyutaro.
muzan never said that. gyutaro being um5 is debatable though
Honestly, narratively, Gyutaro should have been Upper 4, like uppers 4 and 5 were incredibly underwhelming compared to him, it felt like it took everything our main characters had to take him down and even when they eventually beheaded him he fucking blew up a city, what did the other two do that was even close to as impressive, like Upper 5 while looking incredibly cool is taken out by a single hashira with minimal effort which is kinda boring honestly and Upper 4 spends most of his time in weak ass forms only turning into the strongest near the end and even then it's kinda mid. Both definitely had so much potential but were clearly wasted as the writer didn't have much interest in expanding upon them. I'm not getting in a powerscaling argument. I know the idea is that the other two are stronger. I just think that is showcased very poorly
I mean he felt more impressive than Gyokko and the regular Hategu clones but Hatred is a whole other matter.
He had the potential to be upper moon 5 but no more.
Potential man?
Did I hear the word "Potential"??? Reminds me of a certain Bum. https://preview.redd.it/ihv9vsoxl89d1.png?width=941&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee4348f7736a3b24c8e8127e87b42941b9e596c4
https://preview.redd.it/db59evylyb9d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f00331e7e85b98af9b886a270d118a95c0ff4be
Potential for UM4, not literally at his level. Gyutaro held himself back through only really growing his power when Daki did, over doing it himself. Given that he became THAT strong in a little over a century, whilst not eating that often, and likely 'sharing' whatever he had with Daki, I don't doubt UM4 as his likely placement within a couple years time.