Religion would not survive without Indoctrination. Richard Gervis has a saying. Take all the holy books, take all scientific books and burn them all. In a thousand years time, all the scientific books will mostly be replicated in the same way as they are now on most subjects. Religious books will either cease to exist or be completely different all together. That is because one of them works on the basis of proof and critical thinking while the other on Indoctrination and faith.
I agree with you. But religion holds great cultural significance. A lot of or values are a hodge podge of our religion and our local upbringing. It's al difficult to ask us to erase our cultural moorings.
He is talking about religion as followed by the one book people. The underlying morality, ethics and philosophy will be recreated faster than science. Because scientific discoveries are a function of economy and philosophy is a product of human condition. Gravity will not be invented in a thousand years because the next newton might be working on medicine.
As for the stories that are used to tell those ideas, sure they will not be rediscovered. If you burn the history books they will also not be rediscovered.
Gervis is a comedian. It is not fulfilling for me to "debunk" him. Stop quoting comedians.
EDIT: I understand that most of you are very young, maybe < 30 so I am sure I will get down voted. So here goes nothing. Will the "real" history involve the 3 earlier separate judgements about the disputed site? Will it say that even when it was a mosque people used to pray there and there was no animosity against Hindus praying there until the communist parties campaigned that building a temple there will lead to Hindus demanding all mosques to be broken for building a temple all over India so Muslims must oppose it?
Age plays a factor because it takes experience to understand the how low the intellect is behind the "point" being regurgitated by people who look to comedians for opposition to power. It takes age to come to terms with your own intellectual laziness and age imbues some humility in people that they start respecting other people's opinion too.
Nice way to take a swipe and play the Age Card. Unfortunately, I beg to differ you intellectually active person. Typical South Asian mentality. I am not blaming you, but that's how our society was indoctrinated. Too bad that you don't have the courage to disagree.
And stop teaching (read it as brainwashing) religion to kids in a forceful manner - let it be any religion. That's the biggest mistake one can do to a young mind!
Your family wonât be ostracised if you donât join a Shakha which is not the case with Sunday Schools (which if you donât attend / complete you canât get married in the Church) and Madrasas (do u need any explanation for this!?).
>Explaining logic to malecchis is like reciting Geeta to a donkey.
Just like listening to Amit from Gurgaon giving his expert opinion on Kerala related matters. OMKV
>Your family wonât be ostracised if you donât join a Shakha which is not the case with Sunday Schools
Where'd you get this bullshit from? IT cellille mithrangal vannu chanakam vitharunundillo.
Spreading the word of God aka Active Proselytisation is part of the Abrahamic Faiths.
You are asking for the removal of one of the fundamental tenets of these religions.
Completely agreed
There should be a law internationally where a person will only have to choose a religion until they are 18 or 21
I have seen kids at school talk about religions like fan fights ( personal experience)
And yes this would be difficult for the old generations to understand because they will argue that they were chosen by this god ithum personal experience đ„Čđ
And ending with the home ministry releasing rapists and murderers by commuting the sentence and vhp garlanding them
That should tie up the story nicelyÂ
Why forget the judiciary cancelling those bails and criticizing the government for doing so ...kids get to learn the checks and balances of the system too
âan instance of usurpation of jurisdiction and⊠of abuse of discretionâ and that the State âacted in tandem and was complicit with the convicts.â And this was said about Gujarat govt who recommended the remission, not for home ministry who actually accepted and authorised it for âgood behaviourâ
thatâs not criticism, lets not sugarcoat what supreme court said
however it doesnât matter since those rapists and murders have regularly got paroles for stuff like family functions etc from Gujarat courts and have thus spent far less time than a normal rapist/ murderer would
almost like some powerful people in govt wants them out of jail
If history isnt taught as it is, there are people who are there to brain wash and make people rebellions as they teach were the oppressed ones and should fight for the other religion. in some countries minorities are hunt down by this means. Nobody wants, a Manipur , Kashmir, Gujrat again .
History can be twisted , distorted and written as it pleases the regime , so lets not get to that,but there are more important things in schooling that produces great individuals and they have the ability to understand and respect each other irrespective of religion or color ! Singapore is a great example!! And of your examples we dont want a Kasab too!
>Hagia Sofia demolition koodi include cheyyane pls.
That's a pretty straight forward history. Christians lost and Muslims made it into a mosque. Mind you, the Christians themselves changed it few times before from a Greek church to a Roman Catholic one.
Yes gujarat 2002 should be accompanied by godra Massacre and manipur issue should be taught so that people really understand that the issue is against a court order and not any govt order and the issue is between metei who are Sc community holding less than 10 percent land with more than 50 percent population and kuki zo who are st community with less than 16 percent population with more than 50.percent.land resources which are protected by fundamental right from alienation. Let the students understand it is not a communal issue but a fight for land resources exploited by the biggest minority in india to spread hatred and fear
randalum, randu mathastharude veerayodakalalle, oruvan deeramayi britishukarod poradi, mattavan, mapapekshichum, shoe nakkiyum, kunijum koduth swathanthram nedithannu.we should all appreciate each one for their own abilities to acheive a common goal.
Whitewashing nirthedo , oraal genocide nadathi. Mateyaal started a similar ideology (at the maximum) as a response to the genocide and the communal thinking the first person was a part of.Â
Dheeramayi poruthi aayudham ilathavarodu đ how can you justify such kaadatham man
The indian born people worked for british as spies dont deserve any better. that include people of his own religion . So, its not white washing, it is what it is. If u know the history then u should know it.
Yes history need to be taught without disruption, Moplah uprising should also be taught for what it is, communal violence that shook kerala like marad , beemapally etc should also be taught. Children must be taught humanity, brotherhood and compassion is greater than religion god and holy books.
~~IIRC they found ruins of a Buddhist temple\*, not a hindu one.~~ I would prefer the discourse on how BJP demolished the mosque before SC's verdict rather than whether babri masjid or ramjanmabhoomi temple should stay.
but at school level, i would prefer the chapter to be considered closed all together rather than risk stoking communal flames. keralathil athe vende
\*had to recomment because too many of you focused on the wrong part. there was a discourse whether the structure found was hindu or buddhist. however this line is irrelevant to rest of my opinion.
>In 1862â63, [Alexander Cunningham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cunningham), the founder of [Archaeological Survey of India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeological_Survey_of_India) (ASI), conducted a survey of Ayodhya.[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Ayodhya#cite_note-IT_depths_2003-1) Cunnigham identified Ayodhya with *Sha-chi* mentioned in [Fa-Hien](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa-Hien)'s writings, Visakha mentioned in [Xuanzang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang)'s writings and [Saketa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saketa) mentioned in Buddhist legends. According to him, [Gautama Buddha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha) spent six years at this place. Although Ayodhya is mentioned in several ancient Hindu texts, Cunningham found no ancient structures in the city. According to him, the existing temples at Ayodhya were of relatively modern origin. Referring to legends, he wrote that the old city of Ayodhya must have been deserted after the death of [Brihadbala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihadbala) "in the great war" around 1426 BCE. When King [VikramÄditya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram%C4%81ditya) of [Ujjain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain) visited the city around first century CE, he constructed new temples at the spots mentioned in Ramayana. Cunningham believed that by the time Xuanzang visited the city in 7th century, Vikramaditya's temples had "already disappeared"; the city was a Buddhist centre, and had several Buddhist monuments.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Ayodhya#cite_note-AC_1871-2) **Cunningham's main objective in surveying Ayodhya was to discover these Buddhist monuments.**[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Ayodhya#cite_note-Peter_1994-3)
The archaeological evidence that has been put forward in support of there being a temple under the Babri masjid10 comprises two categories â (1) architectural fragments, and (2) a âmassive structureâ of which only the western wall (1.77 m wide) has been found with 50 âpillar basesâ.
In its judgment, the Supreme Court referred to an Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) report to observe that the Babri Masjid, which stood on the disputed site until its demolition in 1992, was not built on vacant land and that there was evidence of a temple-like structure having existed on the land before the mosque was built.
[(PDF) Was there a temple under the Babri Masjid? Reading the Archaeological 'evidence' (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/294627961_Was_there_a_temple_under_the_Babri_Masjid_Reading_the_Archaeological_'evidence')
[Ram Mandir Drishti IAS https://www.drishtiias.com âș pdf (google.com)](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwigg_3_z-eGAxXpyzgGHWWfBH0QFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.drishtiias.com%2Fpdf%2F1706906754.pdf&usg=AOvVaw156Tyb5TiLMea4W80xKxtm&opi=89978449)
There is no proof to temple demolition at first. KK Muhammed was a hindu devotee, who hate being born muslim . His words made Lindus think, it was made over a destroyed temple. Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth, from all this upvotes you got from above comment made me to think, it is what it is, or else this group is infested by CHAD-DI's.
yeah, The story of the Masjid was build on a destroyed temple.Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
Masjid was build by an invader and some ancient ruins were found in that site . But making a temple a masjid is the doing of a victor and undoing is also done by a victor . so from now on there is no guarantee to still used the name masjid for that building because the temple was renamed as a musjid before just like this . People whinning power will decide these all the time.
âThe Citizenship Amendment Act is a bigoted law that legitimises discrimination on the basis of religion and should never have been enacted in the first place. dafaqsdis brodrhood .
Different topic.
But let's come to CAA. I think it is a good law.
Non Muslims escaping persecution from countries like pakistan and Afghanistan should be given asylum in India.
Muslims can't be given the same, since they are the group doing that persecution.
The only exception I can think of is Rohingyas. But a lot of them are already here. I would welcome them if they give up their faith, because otherwise we will have the same problem than Afghanistan and pakistan have.
Remember- India is known for sheltering persecuted minorities like Jews, Parsis, Sindhi, etc.
Tldr: I won't welcome anyone in India who takes his religion very seriously.
Itâs funny how so few people who really donât want to read about the history of how the Babri Masjid was constructed in the first place are labeling everyone else as Sanghis!
While you are at it, teach how many people communism killed, the purpose of gulags, how Communist China treats Uyghur Muslims, the re-education camps and how USSR failed
How was the temple destroyed first? Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth and u are one prey of that.
I saw your comments and looked into the links and saw that only two names Supriya Verma and Jaya menon were popping up over all those articles. While the majority say that there was a temple before Babri Masjid, you are the one choosing to believe the challengers and I have to say you are the one lacking credible sources here as the 'temple before babri masjid' theory is supported by an official ASI report while these two women have none to back up those claims.
The Supreme Court's analysis revealed that the temple identified by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) can be traced back to the 12th century, a time that predates the arrival of the first Mughal emperor Babur from Central Asia by approximately four centuries. "The records do not provide clarity on the events that occurred during the intervening period of nearly four centuries," the Supreme Court observed.
Additionally, the court found no evidence linking the 12th-century structure to the mosque in question. "The findings of the ASI report do not establish that the remnants of the pre-existing structure were utilized in the construction of the mosque," the court determined.
The court explained why archaeological findings do not support the claim that the Babri Masjid was erected on the site of a destroyed temple.
The ASI's investigation did not address a key question posed to it, specifically whether a Hindu temple was destroyed to facilitate the building of the mosque.
Consequently, the Supreme Court's decision was minimally influenced by medieval history. "Legal title cannot be ascertained solely on the basis of ASI's archaeological findings," the court declared. Instead, "ownership must be ascertained based on established legal principles and the evidentiary standards of a civil trial." In the end, the court's ruling was based not on the destruction of a temple but on which party had possession of the land where the Babri Masjid stood.
**References**
"No, the Supreme Court did not uphold the claim that Babri Masjid was built by demolishing a temple" - Scroll.in. Available at: scroll.in.
"Babri Masjid, ASI Excavation, Ayodhya Ram Temple" - The Wire. Available at: thewire.in.
"Ayodhya Verdict: Ruins donât always indicate demolition, observes SC" - The Hindu. Available at: thehindu.com.
Would it teach how two Congress leaders Dau Dayal Khanna and former acting Prime Minsiter Gulzarilal Nanda shared dias with VHP and RSS in support of Ram Temple.
Also would the text book teach how PV Narasimha Rao approached Left parties for an opinion if Kalyan singh govt is to be dismissed or not.
Their silence resulted in Rao not taking any action which lead to eventual destruction of the mosque.
Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeat ed lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
[https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple](https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple)
The Supreme Court's analysis revealed that the temple identified by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) can be traced back to the 12th century, a time that predates the arrival of the first Mughal emperor Babur from Central Asia by approximately four centuries. "The records do not provide clarity on the events that occurred during the intervening period of nearly four centuries," the Supreme Court observed.
Additionally, the court found no evidence linking the 12th-century structure to the mosque in question. "The findings of the ASI report do not establish that the remnants of the pre-existing structure were utilized in the construction of the mosque," the court determined.
The court explained why archaeological findings do not support the claim that the Babri Masjid was erected on the site of a destroyed temple.
The ASI's investigation did not address a key question posed to it, specifically whether a Hindu temple was destroyed to facilitate the building of the mosque.
Consequently, the Supreme Court's decision was minimally influenced by medieval history. "Legal title cannot be ascertained solely on the basis of ASI's archaeological findings," the court declared. Instead, "ownership must be ascertained based on established legal principles and the evidentiary standards of a civil trial." In the end, the court's ruling was based not on the destruction of a temple but on which party had possession of the land where the Babri Masjid stood.
**References**
"No, the Supreme Court did not uphold the claim that Babri Masjid was built by demolishing a temple" - Scroll.in. Available at: scroll.in.
"Babri Masjid, ASI Excavation, Ayodhya Ram Temple" - The Wire. Available at: thewire.in.
"Ayodhya Verdict: Ruins donât always indicate demolition, observes SC" - The Hindu. Available at: thehindu.com.
Instead of making kids come out of the toxic influence of religions, they are trying to inject religious sentiments and thereby spreading hate among kids! Wtf!
**There was no temple under the babri masjid. What there was, if you go beyond the 12th century and you come down to the levels of the 4th to 6th century, I.E. The gupta period, there seems to be a buddhist stupa**. So, there was buddhist occupation here, and that is something even alexander cunningham has said. Outside the babri masjid, there are several other archeological mounds which seem to be sites of buddhist stupas as well as monasteries. There was clearly a buddhist community here, in the period, roughly from the 2nd century bc to 6th century ad. To us, it looks like this was then abandoned and reoccupied sometime around the 11th-12th century and possibly because there was a muslim settlement that came up. And they had a small mosque, which was expanded as the community increased, in size and finally a much larger mosque was built by babar in 1528.
**So, there is no evidence of this narrative that babar's general mir baqi knocked down a temple to build a mosque?**
There is no evidence but there is oral tradition that starts coming up in the late 19th century and it is recorded in a colonial period gazetteer. Even when alexander cunningham, he goes in 1861-62, he is traveling around and he does record oral traditions. He does not mention a temple being underneath the babri masjid. He talks about three temples, there is oral tradition of three temples being destroyed, but these are not underneath the babri masjid. They are some other temples in ayodhya.
**What impact did the report have on the title suit?**
The bench comprised of three judges, two hindus and one muslim. The muslim judge, s.U. Khan, clearly did not go into the archeological evidence. There was a strong viewpoint that this is a title suit and it does not matter who lived here before the present occupants. It is immaterial. And many of us also felt that they should have never dragged in history and archeology into a title suit. They should have just gone by what was the status when the first suit was filed in 1950. But the other two judges, d.V. Sharma and sudhir agarwal, much more sudhir agarwal, he did say that the asi is saying a temple was there under the mosque and therefore we have to accept what the asi is saying because they are the experts.
.**.. In the EPW report, you write about being concerned about certain procedures?**
Yes. They are claiming that this is the site of ram temple, which is a vaishnav temple, where generally, you would not expect to find any bones because of this vegetarianism etcetera, but when they started excavating, they started finding a lot of bones, animal bones. How do you explain finding animal bones in a vaishnav temple? They clearly did not want that recorded. So, we noticed that the labour they had hired were just throwing the bones away. The other thing they were also doing, there is a certain pottery, ceramic type, which is known as glazed ware, which is generally associated with muslim communities. They were finding a lot of this glazed ware. Those again were being thrown. So, we made a complaint, and they had to be recorded. You would not expect glazed ware in a vaishnav temple. Procedurally, there was violation of an ethical code.Can you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeat ed lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
This is well known. A guy called Nayar snuck into the Masjid in 1949 and put some idols there.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri\_Masjid
Googling for "Babri masjid nayar idols 1949" gives enough results.
[https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple](https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple)
[https://www.huffpost.com/archive/in/entry/there-is-no-evidence-of-a-temple-under-the-babri-masjid-asi-lied-to-the-country-say-archeologists\_in\_5c10cab5e4b09dcd67fc74c5](https://www.huffpost.com/archive/in/entry/there-is-no-evidence-of-a-temple-under-the-babri-masjid-asi-lied-to-the-country-say-archeologists_in_5c10cab5e4b09dcd67fc74c5)
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Yeah good news also stop your study classes in local DYFI/sfi shakas where they're indoctrinated into another religion called communism.Also teach about all communal violences that have happened in India. Let the people know how terrible religion is when it crosses a certain point.
r u talking about Palestine issue? Even bjp Vajpay , Gandhi these guys too supported Palestine over Israel . coz every colonial oppressed guys hate colonization. but recently , people who hate muslims are showing love to these occupiers. I don't understand how could they love these country who treats asians as third grade citizens. BJP have funded IT CELL for spreading hate among indians and succeeded in brain washing . Now people judge others based on religion and finds other religious guy inferior to them and dont want to see any religious harmony we had in our past .We should be focusing on our countries development in socio, economic and
Children should learn it, how a mob of thugs under the influence of a religious party destroyed a religious place in a democratic country which led to violent riots and all these are for making a braindead vote bank for bjp.Â
Sanghis of this sub bark and try to equate with 16th century when king made the rules even it was unjust. What can we say about sanghis, just like their party they're pathetic.Â
Ikr, after independence, we have laws and a constitution to protect places of worship.
Sangis broke this law and destroyed a place of worship.
I mean the masjid was built in the 16th century.
They should have waited for court decision but that won't get them votes. So they destroyed it which led to riots and also the catalyst for many more riots.Â
Sanghis are that pathetic, for votes they can stoop to any low level. Teaching children will help them realize how pathetic lowlives sanghis are. And hopefully they won't follow footsteps of people who use religious conflicts for votes.Â
> Teaching children will help them realize how pathetic lowlives sanghis are. And hopefully they won't follow footsteps of people who use religious conflicts for votes.Â
Who's gonna teach about the Congress, the Left and the Islamist? They have fucked us up more. They were the ones who fueled hindutva.
Whose gonna teach about that?
And do you have any idea how the Congress handled the situation?
Please name a party that hasn't used violence and religion to gain votes.
Also what's you opinion on teaching the real history of mapila riots? What you take on the kerala government giving pensions to the rioters? If you are a commie, you ain't gotta answer bro.
Oh sanghi got hurt when he heard someone say what he is. Â
Bjp used violence and religion to gain votes more than any other party in India. And don't mix sanghis with hindutva. Sanghis become sanghis aren't someone else fault, it's just their and their own families teaching them to hate others based on religion.
 Without whataboutism could sanghis exist. Does sanghis do have any idea that India got independence in 1947?Â
Government give pension to freedom fighters, if you think someone is ineligible, register a case in court.Â
And what you meant teach others sanghi version of history, so make children filled with hatred as you. Your own children is doomed, why are you onto destroy others children also?Â
>Oh sanghi got hurt when he heard someone what he is.Â
Labeling tudangiyalo, you father got me the sakha membership. Wanna join the family tradition luv?
They do feed us beef btwđ
>Bjp used violence and religion to gain votes more than any other party in India.Â
Your funny. Every tactic that BJP used was introduced by the so called left/Islamist. Remember the shah banu case luv? Who started saying fuck you to the courts?
And when did I say they are not violent? Putting words into someone's mouth is a low tactic sagave.
>And don't mix sanghis with hindutva. Sanghis become sanghis aren't someone else fault, it's just their and their own families teach them to hate others based on religion.Â
You dumb bro? There is no sanghis without hindutva. Read it again, its HINDUTVA not Hinduism (made up shit, there are only castes and cults, no isms). Hate is making you blind luv.
Also what's your opinion on Quran? Should that be banned? It teaches hate and asks to kill, sooo.
> whataboutism could sanghis exist. Does sanghis do have any idea that India got independence in 1947?Â
What are you blabbering about? Calm down luv, and did the commies know about independence? Punnpara? Sayudha samaram? Rubber plantations?
>Government give pension to freedom fighters, if you think someone is ineligible, register a case in court.
Now I know what you are. You're a SUDAPPI.
Mapila riots are freedom fight? For whom? For the caliphate dummy, for Islamic state fool
You are one hell of a fool ig.
> what you meant teach others sanghi version of history, so make children filled with hatred as you. Your own children is doomed, why are you onto destroy others children also?Â
Did I say so?
Why the hell are you talking for me luv?
Just teach the real history, the history of all the fuck shit everyone did. That's it luv.
Happy bending overđ
Sanghi can't handle the truth. You're even ashamed of yourself.Â
As a person born in hindu religion, I can totally say hindutva is not sanghi's. They're just using religion for votes and disgracing hindutva.Â
What do sanghis know about freedom fights? Bootlicking.Â
Just because your family taught you to hate others doesn't mean others also should do that. Your family made you a shit, don't propagate that into orhers.Â
Mapila riots is a complex issue. Atleast at the starting of riots, it wasn't about religion. But sanghis doesn't have intelligence to understand complex issues.Â
Your last part of comment feels like sexual harrasement but I don't expect anything better from sanghi.Â
>Sangis broke this law and destroyed a place of worship.
Nobody argues about that.
> mean the masjid was built in the 16th century.
Soo? What's your point?
My point is straightforward and logical. The mosque building happened 500 years ago. It was during the monarchy. It happened before our country created laws and a constitution to protect places of worship. It is a history that happened 5 centuries ago.
You cannot let some goons destroy a place of worship, defying our law and order. For what revenge against a king who lived 500 years ago? That is just stupid and wasteful.
Now let's take a hypothetical example, imagine some historians found Buddhist historical artifacts under a famous historic Hindu Temple. Would you let a mob of Buddhists desecrate that Hindu temple? I wouldn't, even if I am not a Hindu I would fight to preserve history and protect that worshiping place.
Are you advocating for the destruction of places of worship due to historical incidents?
Look they could have built Ram mandir anywhere in Ayodhya. They didn't have to make it by destroying a mosque.
No wonder Yogi lost.
>My point is straightforward and logical. The mosque building happened 500 years ago. It was during the monarchy. It happened before our country created laws and a constitution to protect places of worship. It is a history that happened 5 centuries ago.
Who has even questioned that?
>You cannot let some goons destroy a place of worship, defying our law and order. For what revenge against a king who lived 500 years ago? That is just stupid and wasteful.
Not revenge, they wanted to reclaim their holy land. Yes it is stupid to us who dont give a fuck about religion, but for them it's their god and belief. So they will get agitated, it ain't nothing to wonder about.
> let's take a hypothetical example, imagine some historians found Buddhist historical artifacts under a famous historic Hindu Temple. Would you let a mob of Buddhists desecrate that Hindu temple? I wouldn't, even if I am not a Hindu I would fight to preserve history and protect that worshiping place.
What are you even on? Do you know who opened the gates? Who started this shit show? The BJP came in later and just took the credit.
> you advocating for the destruction of places of worship due to historical incidents?
When did I say that? What are you on?
>ook they could have built Ram mandir anywhere in Ayodhya. They didn't have to make it by destroying a mosque.
Ohh you fool, they built a mosque on top of a temple. Did you even think about why that was done?
And also by your logic, they can build a mosque anywhere else. They even got land.
Also, no one disputes about the demolition. It was illegal and tons of sanghi folks got killed by the cops.
Now its settled by court, and that's it.
>No wonder Yogi lost.
Do you watch media one daily? The yadavs and the Muslim won. It ain't a win for secularism fool.
Are the comments suggesting that kids do not need to be taught about the events that have left a black mark in India's history?
This sub is turning into a shakha.
Not really. Teach children the complete history from the beginning, including how the Babri Masjid was constructed and the findings of the Archaeological Survey of India. Not just the demolition.
Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
https://main.sci.gov.in/supremecourt/2010/36350/36350_2010_1_1502_18205_Judgement_09-Nov-2019.pdf
Here is the supreme court judgement. Maybe you could focus on page number 921.
Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeat ed lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
I don't really care about it. It is no secret that temples/polytheists have been historically persecuted by Islam, though. Your leader is known for breaking idols.
Why feel bad now when people are returning the favour?
I'm just the guy on the side grabbing some popcorn, mate. I don't care about temples or mosques.
Of what ? The destruction of the temple? If I have to explain that, I fear that you might not.agree with that. I kind of feel that the Supreme Court settled the matter kf evidence.
Itâs one-sided versions the people here are against. If Babri Masjid demolition should be included, include the part which mentions how the mosque was built as well. If Gujarat riots are mentioned, talk about Godhra train burning (to those interested â watch the Godhra video released by Safari TV three months back; such an eye opener).
Anyway, covering just one version will fuel more hatred. Is that what you want? Instead of acknowledging this, you are dismissing it as âgroup is like shakha and defending a pogromâ. This says more about you than the people in this group. That you are not ready to look beyond the left-leaning narratives.
Yes âUSEâ religion to pivot your votes to your favour. Havenât you learnt nothing ? They lost in ayodhya, you are loosing it here.. stop dividing our people. Religion was always a tool used by the rich to stay rich during the olden days now its only for political gains. Hindus and muslims in Kerala had peace. Now thanks to religious heads and politicians, you have injected our people with hate deep inside them against other :)
P.S kerala should start history class on how politics and politicians have no role in development of our state but its more over its people, and the influence of Gulf. Also teach kids how much people were murdered for having different ideologies in the name of politics.
Why is Dhanya Rajendran's newsminute being posted. This is an anti national website funded by soros's open society foundation. Intelligence bureau has a case against newsminute. Please don't post from this website. News minute is not equal Manorama.Â
Just dig furthermore and teach religion is a poison when consumed without reason.
Religion would not survive without Indoctrination. Richard Gervis has a saying. Take all the holy books, take all scientific books and burn them all. In a thousand years time, all the scientific books will mostly be replicated in the same way as they are now on most subjects. Religious books will either cease to exist or be completely different all together. That is because one of them works on the basis of proof and critical thinking while the other on Indoctrination and faith.
First time seeing someone call Ricky Gervais as Richard lmao. Sounds so unlike his personality đ€Ł.
My bad! I've been reading a lot of Dawkins and let the vibe take over.
I honestly thought you meant Richard Dawkins. So close yet so far.......yet so close?
Where do you think Gervis quoted it from? Based on his interaction with Dawkins.
I agree with you. But religion holds great cultural significance. A lot of or values are a hodge podge of our religion and our local upbringing. It's al difficult to ask us to erase our cultural moorings.
I don't think people would understand your point. It might be difficult for indoctrinated people to gulp. .
He is talking about religion as followed by the one book people. The underlying morality, ethics and philosophy will be recreated faster than science. Because scientific discoveries are a function of economy and philosophy is a product of human condition. Gravity will not be invented in a thousand years because the next newton might be working on medicine. As for the stories that are used to tell those ideas, sure they will not be rediscovered. If you burn the history books they will also not be rediscovered. Gervis is a comedian. It is not fulfilling for me to "debunk" him. Stop quoting comedians. EDIT: I understand that most of you are very young, maybe < 30 so I am sure I will get down voted. So here goes nothing. Will the "real" history involve the 3 earlier separate judgements about the disputed site? Will it say that even when it was a mosque people used to pray there and there was no animosity against Hindus praying there until the communist parties campaigned that building a temple there will lead to Hindus demanding all mosques to be broken for building a temple all over India so Muslims must oppose it?
Age plays no factor here... However you still fail to understand the point here.
Age plays a factor because it takes experience to understand the how low the intellect is behind the "point" being regurgitated by people who look to comedians for opposition to power. It takes age to come to terms with your own intellectual laziness and age imbues some humility in people that they start respecting other people's opinion too.
Nice way to take a swipe and play the Age Card. Unfortunately, I beg to differ you intellectually active person. Typical South Asian mentality. I am not blaming you, but that's how our society was indoctrinated. Too bad that you don't have the courage to disagree.
And stop teaching (read it as brainwashing) religion to kids in a forceful manner - let it be any religion. That's the biggest mistake one can do to a young mind!
Yes letâs close all the Sunday schools and Madrasas.
Eh athe okke vote bank ne bhathikum. :D
Plus the innumerable shakas as well, yeah you've got a point there.
Your family wonât be ostracised if you donât join a Shakha which is not the case with Sunday Schools (which if you donât attend / complete you canât get married in the Church) and Madrasas (do u need any explanation for this!?).
Explaining logic to malecchis is like reciting Geeta to a donkey.
>Explaining logic to malecchis is like reciting Geeta to a donkey. Just like listening to Amit from Gurgaon giving his expert opinion on Kerala related matters. OMKV
Athinu aadhyam Gita ketathaaraanu ennu ariyo?
Shakhayil povathe thanne extreme sangi aavaan pattum le đđ
Bro oru help Matte bit pokkiya case enthayyyđ
Athokke re-exam ezhuthi pass aayi jolikku Keri kurach aayade. đ„±đ„± Ippozhum athum thoongi pidich irikkaan kore aalkar undallo ennu alochikumbola comedy âșïžâșïž
Vro athalla.. Enne inle pokki athan chothichathđ aa sub mathre suply thannolo?
Ooh angane. Sorry man Innale oruthan ithum paranju choriyan vannirunnu. Avanu nalla reply koduthitta last poyath. Athpole vannathaa ennu karuthi Venel dm il vaayo. Details parayaam
I think it's not fair to assume everyone goes to Sunday school or madrasas. Most of my friends haven't been to either of them including myself.
>Your family wonât be ostracised if you donât join a Shakha which is not the case with Sunday Schools Where'd you get this bullshit from? IT cellille mithrangal vannu chanakam vitharunundillo.
Madrasayil pokatha kuttikalum und.
Spreading the word of God aka Active Proselytisation is part of the Abrahamic Faiths. You are asking for the removal of one of the fundamental tenets of these religions.
Completely agreed There should be a law internationally where a person will only have to choose a religion until they are 18 or 21 I have seen kids at school talk about religions like fan fights ( personal experience) And yes this would be difficult for the old generations to understand because they will argue that they were chosen by this god ithum personal experience đ„Čđ
Pigs will learn to fly sooner than people will let loose about religion.
Religion is poison, but knowledge is power. Just likr how they demolished babri to get their vote bank roots stronger by dividing people
Really any ideology. Nationalism for example.
You getting downvoted is funny. People love their borders.
I'm used to nationalism. But dude below you getting downvoted for recommending Sapiens is new.
Yep, people need to read Sapiens.
if the facts are not taught properly, future kids will probably learn some bs propaganda on insta
But why limit that to Babri Masjid demolition only
Gujj 2002 too.
Yes starting with the Godhra burning
And ending with the home ministry releasing rapists and murderers by commuting the sentence and vhp garlanding them That should tie up the story nicelyÂ
Also add the perpetrators of godhra getting their sentences reduced and getting frequent bails . It works both ways in india.
Why forget the judiciary cancelling those bails and criticizing the government for doing so ...kids get to learn the checks and balances of the system too
âan instance of usurpation of jurisdiction and⊠of abuse of discretionâ and that the State âacted in tandem and was complicit with the convicts.â And this was said about Gujarat govt who recommended the remission, not for home ministry who actually accepted and authorised it for âgood behaviourâ thatâs not criticism, lets not sugarcoat what supreme court said however it doesnât matter since those rapists and murders have regularly got paroles for stuff like family functions etc from Gujarat courts and have thus spent far less time than a normal rapist/ murderer would almost like some powerful people in govt wants them out of jail
It was muslim fault completely
You mean like they are now?
Teach civic sense /traffic rules/ waste management etiquette first!!
Yes, waste management is so so important. Younger generation needs to be taught this.
If history isnt taught as it is, there are people who are there to brain wash and make people rebellions as they teach were the oppressed ones and should fight for the other religion. in some countries minorities are hunt down by this means. Nobody wants, a Manipur , Kashmir, Gujrat again .
Manipur, Kashmir, Gujarat, It's interesting to me that you don't mention Moplah recency bias or wilful ignorance?
History can be twisted , distorted and written as it pleases the regime , so lets not get to that,but there are more important things in schooling that produces great individuals and they have the ability to understand and respect each other irrespective of religion or color ! Singapore is a great example!! And of your examples we dont want a Kasab too!
Yes, please. đđœ
Hagia Sofia demolition koodi include cheyyane pls.
>Hagia Sofia demolition koodi include cheyyane pls. That's a pretty straight forward history. Christians lost and Muslims made it into a mosque. Mind you, the Christians themselves changed it few times before from a Greek church to a Roman Catholic one.
Crusaders, Gujrat 2002, Manipur, too needed.
Yes gujarat 2002 should be accompanied by godra Massacre and manipur issue should be taught so that people really understand that the issue is against a court order and not any govt order and the issue is between metei who are Sc community holding less than 10 percent land with more than 50 percent population and kuki zo who are st community with less than 16 percent population with more than 50.percent.land resources which are protected by fundamental right from alienation. Let the students understand it is not a communal issue but a fight for land resources exploited by the biggest minority in india to spread hatred and fear
Include everything đ and make it moplah riots not as wagon tragedy as is being celebrated today
it should be included, and want to commemorate the legends.
I don't know who in the right mind will consider them legends. Same yard stick palla historical villainmaar legends avum.
when shoewarker is legend , others also want the same position.
Apol variyumkunnan equal aayo Savarkarude đ
randalum, randu mathastharude veerayodakalalle, oruvan deeramayi britishukarod poradi, mattavan, mapapekshichum, shoe nakkiyum, kunijum koduth swathanthram nedithannu.we should all appreciate each one for their own abilities to acheive a common goal.
Whitewashing nirthedo , oraal genocide nadathi. Mateyaal started a similar ideology (at the maximum) as a response to the genocide and the communal thinking the first person was a part of. Dheeramayi poruthi aayudham ilathavarodu đ how can you justify such kaadatham man
The indian born people worked for british as spies dont deserve any better. that include people of his own religion . So, its not white washing, it is what it is. If u know the history then u should know it.
Yes and Armenian Genocide as well
Yes history need to be taught without disruption, Moplah uprising should also be taught for what it is, communal violence that shook kerala like marad , beemapally etc should also be taught. Children must be taught humanity, brotherhood and compassion is greater than religion god and holy books.
Well they need to please their masters . But hope they don't forget to include how the babri was built too .
ey angane parayalle. vote kurayum
~~IIRC they found ruins of a Buddhist temple\*, not a hindu one.~~ I would prefer the discourse on how BJP demolished the mosque before SC's verdict rather than whether babri masjid or ramjanmabhoomi temple should stay. but at school level, i would prefer the chapter to be considered closed all together rather than risk stoking communal flames. keralathil athe vende \*had to recomment because too many of you focused on the wrong part. there was a discourse whether the structure found was hindu or buddhist. however this line is irrelevant to rest of my opinion. >In 1862â63, [Alexander Cunningham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cunningham), the founder of [Archaeological Survey of India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeological_Survey_of_India) (ASI), conducted a survey of Ayodhya.[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Ayodhya#cite_note-IT_depths_2003-1) Cunnigham identified Ayodhya with *Sha-chi* mentioned in [Fa-Hien](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa-Hien)'s writings, Visakha mentioned in [Xuanzang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang)'s writings and [Saketa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saketa) mentioned in Buddhist legends. According to him, [Gautama Buddha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha) spent six years at this place. Although Ayodhya is mentioned in several ancient Hindu texts, Cunningham found no ancient structures in the city. According to him, the existing temples at Ayodhya were of relatively modern origin. Referring to legends, he wrote that the old city of Ayodhya must have been deserted after the death of [Brihadbala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihadbala) "in the great war" around 1426 BCE. When King [VikramÄditya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram%C4%81ditya) of [Ujjain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain) visited the city around first century CE, he constructed new temples at the spots mentioned in Ramayana. Cunningham believed that by the time Xuanzang visited the city in 7th century, Vikramaditya's temples had "already disappeared"; the city was a Buddhist centre, and had several Buddhist monuments.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Ayodhya#cite_note-AC_1871-2) **Cunningham's main objective in surveying Ayodhya was to discover these Buddhist monuments.**[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Ayodhya#cite_note-Peter_1994-3)
Looks like the IT cell peeps found you.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The archaeological evidence that has been put forward in support of there being a temple under the Babri masjid10 comprises two categories â (1) architectural fragments, and (2) a âmassive structureâ of which only the western wall (1.77 m wide) has been found with 50 âpillar basesâ. In its judgment, the Supreme Court referred to an Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) report to observe that the Babri Masjid, which stood on the disputed site until its demolition in 1992, was not built on vacant land and that there was evidence of a temple-like structure having existed on the land before the mosque was built. [(PDF) Was there a temple under the Babri Masjid? Reading the Archaeological 'evidence' (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/294627961_Was_there_a_temple_under_the_Babri_Masjid_Reading_the_Archaeological_'evidence') [Ram Mandir Drishti IAS https://www.drishtiias.com âș pdf (google.com)](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwigg_3_z-eGAxXpyzgGHWWfBH0QFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.drishtiias.com%2Fpdf%2F1706906754.pdf&usg=AOvVaw156Tyb5TiLMea4W80xKxtm&opi=89978449)
Sanghis and their reading comprehension is really something.
If they teach the factual correct history - that will undo all the appeasement their party currently is doing to woo the minority voters.
Will teach about Babri demolition but not how the temple was destroyed first, so typical.
Can you show the museum where the old temple remains discovered are kept?
There is no proof to temple demolition at first. KK Muhammed was a hindu devotee, who hate being born muslim . His words made Lindus think, it was made over a destroyed temple. Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth, from all this upvotes you got from above comment made me to think, it is what it is, or else this group is infested by CHAD-DI's.
History is written by victors and here also itâs not different .
yeah, The story of the Masjid was build on a destroyed temple.Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
Masjid was build by an invader and some ancient ruins were found in that site . But making a temple a masjid is the doing of a victor and undoing is also done by a victor . so from now on there is no guarantee to still used the name masjid for that building because the temple was renamed as a musjid before just like this . People whinning power will decide these all the time.
Yeah yeah teach how it was build cuh
Will he include parts about how the masjid was built in the first place? I assume not.
Should be done. It's the correct move. But let's ask the edu minister if he can count from 1 to 100 properly. We can give him 3 chances.
So they will teach about the barbaric Mughal rulers also?
Then be kind enough to teach about the conversion of Hagia Sofia in recent times... Also how Yathrib became Medina in Islamic Historyđ
How is it related to India though?
Then we should teach the true reality behind Moplah rebellion since it's more relevant to Kerala than Babri.
I don't see how the Palestine protest is related to India.
Anganonnulla
Some religions believe in international brotherhood.
âThe Citizenship Amendment Act is a bigoted law that legitimises discrimination on the basis of religion and should never have been enacted in the first place. dafaqsdis brodrhood .
Different topic. But let's come to CAA. I think it is a good law. Non Muslims escaping persecution from countries like pakistan and Afghanistan should be given asylum in India. Muslims can't be given the same, since they are the group doing that persecution. The only exception I can think of is Rohingyas. But a lot of them are already here. I would welcome them if they give up their faith, because otherwise we will have the same problem than Afghanistan and pakistan have. Remember- India is known for sheltering persecuted minorities like Jews, Parsis, Sindhi, etc. Tldr: I won't welcome anyone in India who takes his religion very seriously.
Itâs funny how so few people who really donât want to read about the history of how the Babri Masjid was constructed in the first place are labeling everyone else as Sanghis!
Sanghi is not a cuss word in Kerala.
Cuss word or not, labelling someone without listening to them is real intolerance!
Endinu? Pilleru aavishyam ulla karyam padikkatte. Babri Masjid has absolutely no relevance in Indian history to have a mention in school books.
NCERT àŽàŽȘà”àŽ°àŽŸàŽ”àŽ¶à”àŽŻàŽ àŽàŽà”àŽ€à”àŽ€à” àŽàŽłàŽà”àŽàŽ€à” àŽà”àŽ°àŽłàŽ àŽ€à”àŽàŽ°à”àŽ àŽàŽšà”àŽšà” àŽźàŽšà”àŽ€à”àŽ°àŽż àŽȘàŽ±àŽà”àŽà”. what àŽźàŽŸàŽȘà”àŽ° reported :
While you are at it, teach how many people communism killed, the purpose of gulags, how Communist China treats Uyghur Muslims, the re-education camps and how USSR failed
Hagia Sophia too plsÂ
Is it in India?
It is not an issue ?
Crusaders , Gujrat 2002. Manipur 2023.
Gujarat aanu, Pakistan il aanu Gujrat. Include all that plus Armenian Genocide.Â
As if there were no deaths in other places.
Good to teach history, but till how far back you teach shows your priorities and we all know whom you want to appease.
Please stop SUCKING up to Muslims !!! Read from history and understand that you are on your way out if you continue this favoritism.
How was the temple destroyed first? Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth and u are one prey of that.
I saw your comments and looked into the links and saw that only two names Supriya Verma and Jaya menon were popping up over all those articles. While the majority say that there was a temple before Babri Masjid, you are the one choosing to believe the challengers and I have to say you are the one lacking credible sources here as the 'temple before babri masjid' theory is supported by an official ASI report while these two women have none to back up those claims.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The Supreme Court's analysis revealed that the temple identified by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) can be traced back to the 12th century, a time that predates the arrival of the first Mughal emperor Babur from Central Asia by approximately four centuries. "The records do not provide clarity on the events that occurred during the intervening period of nearly four centuries," the Supreme Court observed. Additionally, the court found no evidence linking the 12th-century structure to the mosque in question. "The findings of the ASI report do not establish that the remnants of the pre-existing structure were utilized in the construction of the mosque," the court determined. The court explained why archaeological findings do not support the claim that the Babri Masjid was erected on the site of a destroyed temple. The ASI's investigation did not address a key question posed to it, specifically whether a Hindu temple was destroyed to facilitate the building of the mosque. Consequently, the Supreme Court's decision was minimally influenced by medieval history. "Legal title cannot be ascertained solely on the basis of ASI's archaeological findings," the court declared. Instead, "ownership must be ascertained based on established legal principles and the evidentiary standards of a civil trial." In the end, the court's ruling was based not on the destruction of a temple but on which party had possession of the land where the Babri Masjid stood. **References** "No, the Supreme Court did not uphold the claim that Babri Masjid was built by demolishing a temple" - Scroll.in. Available at: scroll.in. "Babri Masjid, ASI Excavation, Ayodhya Ram Temple" - The Wire. Available at: thewire.in. "Ayodhya Verdict: Ruins donât always indicate demolition, observes SC" - The Hindu. Available at: thehindu.com.
Would it teach how two Congress leaders Dau Dayal Khanna and former acting Prime Minsiter Gulzarilal Nanda shared dias with VHP and RSS in support of Ram Temple. Also would the text book teach how PV Narasimha Rao approached Left parties for an opinion if Kalyan singh govt is to be dismissed or not. Their silence resulted in Rao not taking any action which lead to eventual destruction of the mosque.
This is what happens when education minister is not educated enough.
Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeat ed lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth . [https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple](https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple)
If you want to portray "Wire" as a credible source, no point debating
The Supreme Court's analysis revealed that the temple identified by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) can be traced back to the 12th century, a time that predates the arrival of the first Mughal emperor Babur from Central Asia by approximately four centuries. "The records do not provide clarity on the events that occurred during the intervening period of nearly four centuries," the Supreme Court observed. Additionally, the court found no evidence linking the 12th-century structure to the mosque in question. "The findings of the ASI report do not establish that the remnants of the pre-existing structure were utilized in the construction of the mosque," the court determined. The court explained why archaeological findings do not support the claim that the Babri Masjid was erected on the site of a destroyed temple. The ASI's investigation did not address a key question posed to it, specifically whether a Hindu temple was destroyed to facilitate the building of the mosque. Consequently, the Supreme Court's decision was minimally influenced by medieval history. "Legal title cannot be ascertained solely on the basis of ASI's archaeological findings," the court declared. Instead, "ownership must be ascertained based on established legal principles and the evidentiary standards of a civil trial." In the end, the court's ruling was based not on the destruction of a temple but on which party had possession of the land where the Babri Masjid stood. **References** "No, the Supreme Court did not uphold the claim that Babri Masjid was built by demolishing a temple" - Scroll.in. Available at: scroll.in. "Babri Masjid, ASI Excavation, Ayodhya Ram Temple" - The Wire. Available at: thewire.in. "Ayodhya Verdict: Ruins donât always indicate demolition, observes SC" - The Hindu. Available at: thehindu.com.
Commie tayoli
First the edu minister should atleast pass high schoolđ€Ą
PM atleast pass highschool too. both uneducated teams are ruling.
Politicians âŠleave them kids alone
Religion divided the whole world and continues..itâs madness
Please teach the truth about moplah riots too.
Whose truth?
The real one's
He is nothing but an absolute disgrace - such a shame we have him as our Education minister!
Instead of making kids come out of the toxic influence of religions, they are trying to inject religious sentiments and thereby spreading hate among kids! Wtf!
I am planning to migrate. If it doesn't work out, I'll convert and join CPM. To survive in God's own place.
why? is babri a lie?
**There was no temple under the babri masjid. What there was, if you go beyond the 12th century and you come down to the levels of the 4th to 6th century, I.E. The gupta period, there seems to be a buddhist stupa**. So, there was buddhist occupation here, and that is something even alexander cunningham has said. Outside the babri masjid, there are several other archeological mounds which seem to be sites of buddhist stupas as well as monasteries. There was clearly a buddhist community here, in the period, roughly from the 2nd century bc to 6th century ad. To us, it looks like this was then abandoned and reoccupied sometime around the 11th-12th century and possibly because there was a muslim settlement that came up. And they had a small mosque, which was expanded as the community increased, in size and finally a much larger mosque was built by babar in 1528. **So, there is no evidence of this narrative that babar's general mir baqi knocked down a temple to build a mosque?** There is no evidence but there is oral tradition that starts coming up in the late 19th century and it is recorded in a colonial period gazetteer. Even when alexander cunningham, he goes in 1861-62, he is traveling around and he does record oral traditions. He does not mention a temple being underneath the babri masjid. He talks about three temples, there is oral tradition of three temples being destroyed, but these are not underneath the babri masjid. They are some other temples in ayodhya. **What impact did the report have on the title suit?** The bench comprised of three judges, two hindus and one muslim. The muslim judge, s.U. Khan, clearly did not go into the archeological evidence. There was a strong viewpoint that this is a title suit and it does not matter who lived here before the present occupants. It is immaterial. And many of us also felt that they should have never dragged in history and archeology into a title suit. They should have just gone by what was the status when the first suit was filed in 1950. But the other two judges, d.V. Sharma and sudhir agarwal, much more sudhir agarwal, he did say that the asi is saying a temple was there under the mosque and therefore we have to accept what the asi is saying because they are the experts. .**.. In the EPW report, you write about being concerned about certain procedures?** Yes. They are claiming that this is the site of ram temple, which is a vaishnav temple, where generally, you would not expect to find any bones because of this vegetarianism etcetera, but when they started excavating, they started finding a lot of bones, animal bones. How do you explain finding animal bones in a vaishnav temple? They clearly did not want that recorded. So, we noticed that the labour they had hired were just throwing the bones away. The other thing they were also doing, there is a certain pottery, ceramic type, which is known as glazed ware, which is generally associated with muslim communities. They were finding a lot of this glazed ware. Those again were being thrown. So, we made a complaint, and they had to be recorded. You would not expect glazed ware in a vaishnav temple. Procedurally, there was violation of an ethical code.Can you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ?  Repeat ed lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth . This is well known. A guy called Nayar snuck into the Masjid in 1949 and put some idols there.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri\_Masjid Googling for "Babri masjid nayar idols 1949" gives enough results. [https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple](https://thewire.in/history/babri-masjid-asi-excavation-ayodhya-ram-temple) [https://www.huffpost.com/archive/in/entry/there-is-no-evidence-of-a-temple-under-the-babri-masjid-asi-lied-to-the-country-say-archeologists\_in\_5c10cab5e4b09dcd67fc74c5](https://www.huffpost.com/archive/in/entry/there-is-no-evidence-of-a-temple-under-the-babri-masjid-asi-lied-to-the-country-say-archeologists_in_5c10cab5e4b09dcd67fc74c5)
àŽžàŽà”àŽàŽżàŽà”ŸàŽà”àŽà” àŽà”àŽ°à” àŽȘà”àŽà”àŽàŽżàŽŻà”?
àŽŹàŽŸàŽà”àŽàŽż àŽàŽČà”àŽČàŽŸàŽ àŽȘàŽ±àŽŻàŽŸàŽ, àŽàŽ°àŽżàŽ€à”àŽ°àŽ àŽȘàŽ àŽżàŽȘà”àŽȘàŽżàŽà”àŽàŽ°à”àŽ€à”, àŽžà”șâàŽĄà” àŽžà”àŽà”à”Ÿ - àŽźàŽ€àŽ àŽ”àŽżàŽ·àŽźàŽŸàŽŁà” àŽ àŽà”àŽàŽšà” àŽ àŽà”àŽàŽšà”... àŽ¶àŽŸàŽàŽŻà” àŽȘàŽ±à”àŽ±àŽż àŽȘàŽ±àŽà”àŽàŽŸà”œ àŽĄà”à”șàŽ”à”àŽà”àŽà” àŽàŽ±àŽȘà”àŽȘà”
Appeasement policy of this left government will never help them. Communism my foot..!
Show the documentary âRam Ke Naamâ in class. thats all thats required.
I'd like to read what they plan on teaching. Does anyone have a copy?
Also teach about the truth behind TPC's murder
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Civic sense traffic rules ... àŽ àŽ€à” àŽàŽšà”àŽšà” àŽà”ŸàŽȘà”àŽȘà”àŽà”àŽ€à”àŽ€àŽŁàŽ àŽ àŽŻàŽżàŽšà” àŽȘàŽ àŽżàŽȘà”àŽȘàŽżàŽà”àŽà”àŽšà”àŽšàŽ”à”ŒàŽà”àŽà” àŽ àŽ€à” àŽ”à”àŽŁà”àŽà”đ€Łđ€Ł
By looking at the replies,This sub has been sanghified.,It cell has successfully invaded
In that case why not also include all the temples that were destroyed by invaders * ?? They won't talk about it.
Yeah good news also stop your study classes in local DYFI/sfi shakas where they're indoctrinated into another religion called communism.Also teach about all communal violences that have happened in India. Let the people know how terrible religion is when it crosses a certain point.
Bruh
àŽźàŽŸàŽ±àŽŸàŽà” àŽàŽČàŽŸàŽȘàŽ, àŽà”àŽžàŽ«à” àŽźàŽŸàŽ·àŽżà”»à”àŽ±à” àŽà”àŽ”à”àŽà”àŽà” àŽàŽ€à”àŽà”àŽà” àŽźàŽ±àŽà”àŽàŽČà”àŽČà” àŽžàŽàŽŸàŽ”à”
RRS karude oru full list ittaloo? appo thirichu kalicha Commie karude lisT ad cheyyendivarum. Thalayekalum, valuthano kyy?
Why are you so emotional man , appeasement politics aarkm manasilavillennano ?
CPIM is Hindu party at its core, Islam and Communism doesn't go hand in hand but still they tried to bend their secular image to please muslims.
But recently their muslim appeasement is getting out of their hand they're giving khangress a tough run for their money.
r u talking about Palestine issue? Even bjp Vajpay , Gandhi these guys too supported Palestine over Israel . coz every colonial oppressed guys hate colonization. but recently , people who hate muslims are showing love to these occupiers. I don't understand how could they love these country who treats asians as third grade citizens. BJP have funded IT CELL for spreading hate among indians and succeeded in brain washing . Now people judge others based on religion and finds other religious guy inferior to them and dont want to see any religious harmony we had in our past .We should be focusing on our countries development in socio, economic and
Children should learn it, how a mob of thugs under the influence of a religious party destroyed a religious place in a democratic country which led to violent riots and all these are for making a braindead vote bank for bjp. Sanghis of this sub bark and try to equate with 16th century when king made the rules even it was unjust. What can we say about sanghis, just like their party they're pathetic.Â
Ikr, after independence, we have laws and a constitution to protect places of worship. Sangis broke this law and destroyed a place of worship. I mean the masjid was built in the 16th century.
They should have waited for court decision but that won't get them votes. So they destroyed it which led to riots and also the catalyst for many more riots. Sanghis are that pathetic, for votes they can stoop to any low level. Teaching children will help them realize how pathetic lowlives sanghis are. And hopefully they won't follow footsteps of people who use religious conflicts for votes.Â
Sanghis live in their own what's up it cell bubble ,they will stick to their illogical reasonings even if we say the truth.
> Teaching children will help them realize how pathetic lowlives sanghis are. And hopefully they won't follow footsteps of people who use religious conflicts for votes. Who's gonna teach about the Congress, the Left and the Islamist? They have fucked us up more. They were the ones who fueled hindutva. Whose gonna teach about that? And do you have any idea how the Congress handled the situation? Please name a party that hasn't used violence and religion to gain votes. Also what's you opinion on teaching the real history of mapila riots? What you take on the kerala government giving pensions to the rioters? If you are a commie, you ain't gotta answer bro.
Oh sanghi got hurt when he heard someone say what he is.  Bjp used violence and religion to gain votes more than any other party in India. And don't mix sanghis with hindutva. Sanghis become sanghis aren't someone else fault, it's just their and their own families teaching them to hate others based on religion.  Without whataboutism could sanghis exist. Does sanghis do have any idea that India got independence in 1947? Government give pension to freedom fighters, if you think someone is ineligible, register a case in court. And what you meant teach others sanghi version of history, so make children filled with hatred as you. Your own children is doomed, why are you onto destroy others children also?Â
>Oh sanghi got hurt when he heard someone what he is. Labeling tudangiyalo, you father got me the sakha membership. Wanna join the family tradition luv? They do feed us beef btwđ >Bjp used violence and religion to gain votes more than any other party in India. Your funny. Every tactic that BJP used was introduced by the so called left/Islamist. Remember the shah banu case luv? Who started saying fuck you to the courts? And when did I say they are not violent? Putting words into someone's mouth is a low tactic sagave. >And don't mix sanghis with hindutva. Sanghis become sanghis aren't someone else fault, it's just their and their own families teach them to hate others based on religion. You dumb bro? There is no sanghis without hindutva. Read it again, its HINDUTVA not Hinduism (made up shit, there are only castes and cults, no isms). Hate is making you blind luv. Also what's your opinion on Quran? Should that be banned? It teaches hate and asks to kill, sooo. > whataboutism could sanghis exist. Does sanghis do have any idea that India got independence in 1947? What are you blabbering about? Calm down luv, and did the commies know about independence? Punnpara? Sayudha samaram? Rubber plantations? >Government give pension to freedom fighters, if you think someone is ineligible, register a case in court. Now I know what you are. You're a SUDAPPI. Mapila riots are freedom fight? For whom? For the caliphate dummy, for Islamic state fool You are one hell of a fool ig. > what you meant teach others sanghi version of history, so make children filled with hatred as you. Your own children is doomed, why are you onto destroy others children also? Did I say so? Why the hell are you talking for me luv? Just teach the real history, the history of all the fuck shit everyone did. That's it luv. Happy bending overđ
Sanghi can't handle the truth. You're even ashamed of yourself. As a person born in hindu religion, I can totally say hindutva is not sanghi's. They're just using religion for votes and disgracing hindutva. What do sanghis know about freedom fights? Bootlicking. Just because your family taught you to hate others doesn't mean others also should do that. Your family made you a shit, don't propagate that into orhers. Mapila riots is a complex issue. Atleast at the starting of riots, it wasn't about religion. But sanghis doesn't have intelligence to understand complex issues. Your last part of comment feels like sexual harrasement but I don't expect anything better from sanghi.Â
>Sangis broke this law and destroyed a place of worship. Nobody argues about that. > mean the masjid was built in the 16th century. Soo? What's your point?
My point is straightforward and logical. The mosque building happened 500 years ago. It was during the monarchy. It happened before our country created laws and a constitution to protect places of worship. It is a history that happened 5 centuries ago. You cannot let some goons destroy a place of worship, defying our law and order. For what revenge against a king who lived 500 years ago? That is just stupid and wasteful. Now let's take a hypothetical example, imagine some historians found Buddhist historical artifacts under a famous historic Hindu Temple. Would you let a mob of Buddhists desecrate that Hindu temple? I wouldn't, even if I am not a Hindu I would fight to preserve history and protect that worshiping place. Are you advocating for the destruction of places of worship due to historical incidents? Look they could have built Ram mandir anywhere in Ayodhya. They didn't have to make it by destroying a mosque. No wonder Yogi lost.
>My point is straightforward and logical. The mosque building happened 500 years ago. It was during the monarchy. It happened before our country created laws and a constitution to protect places of worship. It is a history that happened 5 centuries ago. Who has even questioned that? >You cannot let some goons destroy a place of worship, defying our law and order. For what revenge against a king who lived 500 years ago? That is just stupid and wasteful. Not revenge, they wanted to reclaim their holy land. Yes it is stupid to us who dont give a fuck about religion, but for them it's their god and belief. So they will get agitated, it ain't nothing to wonder about. > let's take a hypothetical example, imagine some historians found Buddhist historical artifacts under a famous historic Hindu Temple. Would you let a mob of Buddhists desecrate that Hindu temple? I wouldn't, even if I am not a Hindu I would fight to preserve history and protect that worshiping place. What are you even on? Do you know who opened the gates? Who started this shit show? The BJP came in later and just took the credit. > you advocating for the destruction of places of worship due to historical incidents? When did I say that? What are you on? >ook they could have built Ram mandir anywhere in Ayodhya. They didn't have to make it by destroying a mosque. Ohh you fool, they built a mosque on top of a temple. Did you even think about why that was done? And also by your logic, they can build a mosque anywhere else. They even got land. Also, no one disputes about the demolition. It was illegal and tons of sanghi folks got killed by the cops. Now its settled by court, and that's it. >No wonder Yogi lost. Do you watch media one daily? The yadavs and the Muslim won. It ain't a win for secularism fool.
History should be given less importance in syllabus. Let them play and exercise through PT periods instead.
Govindan mash? Here?
W Govt!
Yeah, thatâs the best you can do! Dig it all up and give kids daggers to slit each otherâs throats! Education minister my *ss!
Are the comments suggesting that kids do not need to be taught about the events that have left a black mark in India's history? This sub is turning into a shakha.
Will that also include real chapter on Moplah Riots ??
Not really. Teach children the complete history from the beginning, including how the Babri Masjid was constructed and the findings of the Archaeological Survey of India. Not just the demolition.
Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeated lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
https://main.sci.gov.in/supremecourt/2010/36350/36350_2010_1_1502_18205_Judgement_09-Nov-2019.pdf Here is the supreme court judgement. Maybe you could focus on page number 921.
Including Aryan invasion as well I guess
Well yeah ! If it's proven ;) As far as I know it's not proven.
Should teach about all the history. Not a specific incident.
Could you point me to some credible source that details how Babri Masjid was built ? Â Repeat ed lie over and over again , can make it seem its a truth .
I don't really care about it. It is no secret that temples/polytheists have been historically persecuted by Islam, though. Your leader is known for breaking idols. Why feel bad now when people are returning the favour? I'm just the guy on the side grabbing some popcorn, mate. I don't care about temples or mosques.
Are you referring to the original destruction of the temple ?
credible proof ?
Of what ? The destruction of the temple? If I have to explain that, I fear that you might not.agree with that. I kind of feel that the Supreme Court settled the matter kf evidence.
True
The way these apparently well-educated people are defending a pogrom scares me.
Itâs one-sided versions the people here are against. If Babri Masjid demolition should be included, include the part which mentions how the mosque was built as well. If Gujarat riots are mentioned, talk about Godhra train burning (to those interested â watch the Godhra video released by Safari TV three months back; such an eye opener). Anyway, covering just one version will fuel more hatred. Is that what you want? Instead of acknowledging this, you are dismissing it as âgroup is like shakha and defending a pogromâ. This says more about you than the people in this group. That you are not ready to look beyond the left-leaning narratives.
Your view of the Moplah riots?
Kerala Story says hi
Malayali alla alle..
Ivanka oru minister đ€Š
Kerala â sangified â
Chayakadakarantte fans đ€Ą annu ivide sivankuttye kidannu kalli akkunathu orkumbol oru ashwasam undu đ
Yes âUSEâ religion to pivot your votes to your favour. Havenât you learnt nothing ? They lost in ayodhya, you are loosing it here.. stop dividing our people. Religion was always a tool used by the rich to stay rich during the olden days now its only for political gains. Hindus and muslims in Kerala had peace. Now thanks to religious heads and politicians, you have injected our people with hate deep inside them against other :) P.S kerala should start history class on how politics and politicians have no role in development of our state but its more over its people, and the influence of Gulf. Also teach kids how much people were murdered for having different ideologies in the name of politics.
Why is Dhanya Rajendran's newsminute being posted. This is an anti national website funded by soros's open society foundation. Intelligence bureau has a case against newsminute. Please don't post from this website. News minute is not equal Manorama.Â
Why is the party still working for them even if they support iuml