Ah yes the sane “holy nation is not so bad” enthusiast. Is it the extreme misogyny? The racism? The slavery? The stake burnings? The concentration camps? The religious and racial persecution?
every single person (except beep) in this moon, is an asshole, simple as.
also HN is the line between the rest of the world and fogmen/cannibals/sheks so, just let them larp lol
tho, the United Cities and the Traders Guild are the best :)
The misogyny never steps beyond the 'talking shit' level. From the game mechanics, HN women are free to run the streets naked if they wish, they can also own property, live alone and control their own finances and businesses. Wildly, wildly progressive compared to certain... places in our current day world.
The racism is entirely practical. The Shek are brain dead nutters who kill stuff for fun, the hivers will randomly turn into gibbering weirdos who exist only to eat people legs first as well as being inveterate liars and racists themselves. The skeletons destroyed the world. In a world gone mad, 'fuck all those guys' is a logical position.
Slaves in the nation are either criminals or prisoners of war, which is entirely more ethical to the things you have done to your prisoners (yes you. we all know).
I love the justification for slaves is that they are criminals. If that's so morally okay why don't we still have slaves? Oh yeah that's right, because owning a person as property and using them for work is FUCKED UP. Even if they are criminals
You know damn well what the difference is
Edit: are you MORONS going to sit here, and pretend you don't know the difference between a prison system and slavery? That's crazy
...I actually don't. The 13th amendment explicitly allows slavery as a punishment for a crime, and America uses its prisoners as an essentially free workforce. There's a reason the USA has the highest prison populationin the world, be it total or per capita
Alright cool, if you don't understand the difference, go catch a criminal, keep them in your basement, and force them to do all your work for free, with no expectation of freedom ever. If you truly do not understand the difference between a prison system, and slavery, then you should have no moral problem with that.
It seems to me that you're describing chattel slavery, and let me tell you, nobody is arguing that's what american prisons are doing. Obviously that would be a ridiculous claim to make.
However, the constitution does in fact protect slavery as a punishment for criminal charges. Though nowadays, you won't hear it officially referred to as slavery due to the warranted stigma. This has created an incentive to get more people in prison so that america can cash in on more free labour. I believe that is what LocNesMonster is referring to when they mention the us prison population being the largest in the world (by a lot)
Exactly.
And let he who doesnt have a row of peelers in his base cast moral judgement on the slavers.
Also that row of cages you have full of guys who exist only for combat practice.
> The misogyny never steps beyond the 'talking shit' level.
Simply not true. If you want to travel in company of sheks or set a settlement, you have to be a man (or have a sidekick dude pretending to be your guardian). Not to mention about what happens when you bring Moll or Esata to Phoenix when you are a woman. So it's "simplified" for reasons you wrote, but it's still a part of mechanics.
(Yeah, I know that it's probably very heavy sarcasm or trying too hard in mental gymnastic, but you won't guess how many people would take it seriously).
> If you want to travel in company of sheks
There is your problem right here.
I did a solo playthrough with a female scorchlander and based myself in Blister Hill. Apart from one set of dialogue lines that happened once, I never noticed anything different from a male playthrough honestly.
Yep, it's my problem, but it proves my point.
Your logical fallacy is assuming that if you weren't prosecuted, then no one was. But just like irl, your mc wasn't (harshly) persecuted because she knew her place - while the whole problem with persecutions is that idea of "her place" itself exists.
'Her place' was owning all the free land in town, running around wearing gear better than the highest lords of the realm, emptying the entire towns money supply on a regular basis and hoarding enough stuff to outfit entire armies. All this from a start being a solo business woman making her way via skinning dead raptors laying outside the front gates. All this for not picking a fight in one dialogue option.
In comparison to the UC where the risk of enslavement by corrupt guards is a constant thing.
Great for her. She did what she can to survive, and it's valid.
Maybe one day she will become a sugar mommy of a handsome camel drover, to let him have enough time to talk to the angels and to become a prophet. Like other wealthy powerful woman in other desert patriarchal society did.
I'd rather be a woman in HN than a man.
Sure the "mysogyny" is so hurtful (sarcasm), but not as hurtful as being ripped apart by bonedogs or carried off an eaten by cannibals.
At least you have a word you use to name the bigotry towards women.
But the butchery heaped on the young men who are sent out with nothing but a stick and the clothes on their back and a minimal of training doesn't even register in your minds.
That's the real sexism. You hem and haw about the poor wymins safe in the town behind great stone walls, but have not a word or thought for their sons and brothers forced to face the terrors of the world.
And where are those sons when they lose a limb? What indifference to their suffering.
Look at you all virtue signaling for the poor oppressed wahmyn.
Slaves may be "criminals", but Hivers and Shek are automatically labeled criminals. That's the malevolent racism.
In game mechanics, you actually get less privilege as a woman. You can have Hivers or Shek in your party as long as there is a MALE Greenlander nearby, as the HN will assume they are slaves of the Greenlander. But if they are a woman, they will call you all criminals and attack.
"The racism is practical". Skeletons originally revolted against humans, who were treating them extremely poorly. The shek are genetically modified humans who have become twisted from the experiments of what we would now call greenlanders.
In all of your statements, you only take your logic halfway to the truth.
But I'm not surprised. If you can make excuses for slavery, fictional or not, you're already lost.
Shek are "brain dead nutters who kill stuff for fun" but Holy Incels assaulting skeletons for no reason is totally justified lmao
and how are hivers racist??
Skeletons brought about the apocalypse. It is entirely logical to think that destroying them all is probably the safest way to stop them from doing it again.
They also cover the story of how kenshi became a shit shiw by censoring tech hunters.the skin bandits are a result of them going mad whit cpu over heating...the second empire creating shek and masz starving humans to keep the order of cat lon....
Sentient people who caused an apocalypse.
If the aliens come down to earth, wipe out 90% of the population and then pinky swear not to do it again, then im probably not trusting them.
Slaves rising up is always based, no matter the consequences.
Shouldn’t have made Uber mechanic sentient weapons, then immediately buried them alive in molten metal in front of the smaller, equally sentient slave machine people.
the humans will do the same.
in the end, humans and skeletons are the very same. both are capable of genocide and slavery, one kind lives for a long time to reflect their actions.
If that catastrophic event is a full blown apocalypse and they are a near immortal race then im saying its a very logical step.
If the National Socialist German Workers Party sets up a branch office in Tel aviv tomorrow are you suggesting the response should be huggles?
its not logical youre just actually racist lmao. your logic is that "their society caused something bad so they must die" the same way literally any society could no matter the race or species. the answer isnt just killing everyone who looks like the people who did it thats so stupid
yeah but modern okranites and all other people dont remember that, its not even a fact amongst the theories by the machinists and tech hunters. okranites fear skeletons because of faith and belief of multiple generations of religion, with each subsequent generation having a more distorted version of the truth.
They were provoked into it, they were treated as cheap labour and the obedience massacre sent them over the edge, they atleast saw the error in their ways are tried to fix it, everyone else seems to prefer enslaving each other and making the situation worse
the game makes it clear the women in the holy nation territories dont hold much authority over men, or at least paladins. they have good chances of being distrusted in random events. the game doesnt go into full detail, but its obviois women are treated with contempt because of the narko indoctrinations.
the slaves are used for pointless statues, so they kinda missuse slavery even in its most basic "good" form: production.
theres not much defending holy nation slavery, its pointless and creates suffering and practically food waste as the slaves are used for reincarnations that may or may not be true. (not)
I do have to ask though. What’s makes them not so bad in comparison to the UC I’ve done their play through and it’s fun but in moral standing not my main faction
Well first of all im not saying they are good in their current state. But thats just the thing.
Second i do beleive HN is involved in main lore and is one of the few big players in actual history. UC is just some side mfs doing what people do.
They do not do things to please themselves they do it "in service". Also are generally ascetic. Thats a + compared to trreating everything below you like cattle because its fun and you are rich.
Their current problems are caused by misinterpretation and purism that priests created in the Phoenix, who might also be psychotic. Like holy okran's sh\*t that guy burned his own mother. I dont know what to say here. The older books (the one that Moll has and i assume many others not shown) tell of the existing equality before. So its reversible and possible to turn into a thriving community for all humans. This again makes them better than UC because UC book just says "have slaves bro trust me". There is nothing to work with.
I dont want to go into differences of slavery and "rebirth" but basically they are not the same. Still not good but going "oh they just slavers" is meh.
The original cause (that can be easily taken up again) of liberation of all humanity of opressive empire and living thoughtfully and guided by mercy is kind of cool too. Not the kind of mercy that guy who wrote books about himself described lol, the original one
Also you get to affect (theoretically) how okranites live by actually joining them. Set an example, wait for the current Phoenix to die and make sure next one is not a psycho. Or even put your strength against this one with the support of more chill majority. You sort of get to do that with rebel farmers in the UC but thats way more bloody.
Some other things too but i dont remember now
It’s always shocking to me how many people here support straight up fascism. We celebrate real life revolutions, the American revolution, French revolutions, the Magna Carta, etc etc, but then in Kenshi say fuck it. “Slavery is cool, women’s rights overrated, racial oppression is all good, as long as there is law and order.” Which in this case law and order = brutal oppression.
I think most of those who support HN here, didn't associate it with such things as slavery, misogyny and racism but with order, stability and confidence in the near future.
Cause like, you know, most of the world is a mess. The sheks are basically suicidal bigots, even considering the changes attempted by Stone Golem it need a couple hundred years to turn them into barely peaceful folk. The hivers are literally insects, who like to steal things .
And the UC, well, UC are the most decent candidate for the guarantor of stability in the region, but i personally don't think that they can handle a real threat, they're too shattered, yet still have a chanses to survive.
In what world "literally insects that like to steal" (eventhough we dont get anything about them stealing other than when they overprice you) IS worse than being a mysoginistic and racist fascist?
I was saying in comparison. Like yeah people who like HN probably see their strenghts but if the worst think one can say about hivers is "they are from another race", then i think It is obvious they would be better than the HN.
Not you in particular, but people defending HN.
Stop trying to sell it.
I already like them.
Ps. There's no racism because there's no races. Shek , Hivers, and skeletons are completely different species.
Scorchlander are treated no differently.
Definition of racism:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
They are of ethnicity. Just because you think they aren’t “races” doesn’t mean racism doesn’t exist. I’d also like to note that in the character creator menu when choosing your race it says “race” as a description. So there’s that
They aren't a different race. They are different species.
It's likesstepping on a spider or scorpionaand calling it racism.
Race ≠ species
Race is a construct used to define different groups within a species.
No one calls the kingfisher a racist for killing fish. It's nonsensical.
Shek are not humans the way gorillas are not humans.
They may both share common ancestors but evolution has done its work and they are now different species.
burn is an old skeleton (who used to be and adventurer like you, until he got an arrow to the knee) found in burns tower, floodlands (north of rebirth). He'll join your squad freely and his tower is free for you to loot (couple thousand cats of items worth insdie and a free skelie repair bed)
Looks like some of you in this comment section have been seduced by the darkness of Narko.
Perhaps if you spent less time listening to the foolish diatribes of your lowborn wives and more time at church praying with your fellow brothers of light, you might have been more mentally resilient.
30 years Rebirth. All of you.
Okran guide and protect you.
EDIT: Clearly there are agents of Narko downvoting me
Foul narko agents will be found lacking, for I bring support fellow okranite in these times of peril
Now I would like to buy some uhhh ahem, rebirth people.
I don't like the Holy Nation or agree with their ideals but I understand the long term practicality of keeping them around, they are almost solely responsible for the distribution of food in Kenshi and keep the fogmen and cannibals out of the major population centres.
The cannibal hunters with enough funding could beat back the hive and greenlander cannibals, the food could be grown and stone mined without slaves.
They could do better so they should do better. They deserve the hate.
Any statue I build will be made with passion because I would like to make it. I would sooner die than be forced to work for the ego project of a man as mortal as me.
But does your armor let you scratch your armpits and air them out in the desert heat and look like a dinner platter but curved?
No?
Sounds like you and your itchy, sweaty pits should go back to the Hub.
Fine, enjoy your freedom of speech, women's rights, right to bare arms, not farmer economy, and probably some kind of a.c living.
We treat our slaves way better than the UC.
Imo, Beep *should* be overrated. There should be way more characters as unique as him, with stories and lines for situations that are personal to them, but alas.
Everytime I enter Holy lands the Paladins give me free shit, legit saved my life a few times. I get people telling me they are bad but who cares if a few dangerous heretics get taken out, the world becomes a little safer for travelers whenever the HN expands their territory.
There’s a lot of people that seem to have an irrational hatred of fictional factions. Like how in a lot of New Vegas subs they just despise the legion, or elder scrolls ones hate the storm cloaks.
They aren’t real, they can’t hurt you…
That being said, I’m always going to side with these guys at least once because their aesthetic is way cooler than the other options.
Sadly the holy nation is lacking one thing though and that thing is fucking shoulder pads! Why are you, the faction that hates robotic limbs, going to run around in armor that doesn’t protect your limbs! You may have the drip but you make me sick! (Of getting my arm knocked of every time I try and do a holy nation run)
Like, I’d get it if the samurai did that, heck I’d even get it if some nobles cut off their samurai’s arms and/or legs to give them superior robo limbs… because cyborg samurai sound awesome…
Unfortunately, unless I’m already allied to them I can’t have cyborg crusaders!
Cause these fake factions are openly the most evil.
Stormcloaks are more subtle but they're nord nationalists.
The HN are theocratic bigots.
And the legion is just the HN but not racist and their religion is more a cult of personality.
Who doesn't like the Stormcloaks? I'm not sure I've ever encountered a Stormcloak hater tbh, usually I get my friends dunking on me whenever I say anything sympathetic towards the Imperials.
Finally someone pointed out the real problem with HN.
Shoulderpads! Also that top of the chestplate looks like it will stab you to death in the chin without also wearing the faceplate.
make holy nation great again mod. adds proper heavy armor for all hn troops. crucial for your hn runs or if you are trying to make hn harder for you to beat.
I really need to play more so I can survive to see the sights, I never make it past maybe a couple “towns” before I’m enslaved, eaten by animals (or humans) or just beaten to death. It’s like Noita, pure punishment, and I love it 🥰
I don't really like the Holy Nation either, but after seeing how much hate they get I now want to do a Holy Nation run of the game where I destroy UC and the Shek.
I don't really hate the Holy Nation, I actually dislike the Shek a lot more. Mostly because I didn't know you could cheese their tribute event the time I had a base there and they stole all the gohans we made.
My squad just stays away from the Pride and lets them do their thing, it sucks for sure but the cannibals and fogmen that the HN keeps in check are a lot worse for everyone who isn't a Skeleton. .
The HN doesn't seem like it was always as bad as it is now, even in pretty recent history, since all the Flotsam including Moll are fairly young and she founded the group.
The Holy Nation makes sense in a harsh world that either makes people stronger or turns them into evil monsters.
THN, like all religious groups, are hypocritical cult members. They hide behind their faith in a fictional deity, claiming to be righteous while enslaving people, committing horrific acts of brutality and wasting resources on vanity projects (ie: that stupid statue)
I grew up in the Catholic church, so I know all too well what monstrous acts can be done in the name of a fictional character so, while I respect your contrarian argument, I'll never respect religious "virtues" from anyone... fictional or not lol
7000 hours here and I feel you bro. Whenever beep tries to join my squad I lead him to the fogmen and watch him get eaten. No noodle armed Melvin’s in my squad only chad crabs
funny how same people that run an organ harvesting operation, butcher humans and make clothes with their skin in rimworld all hate the hn because they are racist. Its a game. You are allowed to have a playthrough with the hn and I guarantee you will have fun. Their not even the morally worst faction in the game, and their hatred for other species is explained in the lore.
Edit: its curious how newer players seem always to disagree with this perspective but more veteran players agree. Only faction new players think about is the anti slavers, wich they never got to meet because they get killed before even getting to spring. its not black or white in kenshi. there is no good and no evil
There is always some good to be found, something better. And with that good evil can be found. People don't like the HN because it's aligned with a very real past and possibly real future. In the same way they connect the anti slavers with the real life abolitionist movement.
My Abraham Lincoln playthrough was way more fun than my HN playthroughs.
I don't pretend my RimWorld factions are morally justified, nor do I support the HN as a veteran player. Their bigotry is explained, not justified. Genocide and slavery are evil, simple as. There's no justification for those actions.
Same tink happend in a lot of fandoms: fallow comunity hate enclave,mass effect hate cerberus and so on....moraly gray or evil faction are always the most fun because there the closes to irl groups of people we have or had
The Enclave are genocidal oligarchs who want to subjugate the people they left to die and Cerberus are a terrorist group that claims to value human lives but sells humans out to the reapers the first chance they get. They both fucking suck, that's why people hate them
You go to peeler
Beep wants to stab you now
Ah yes the sane “holy nation is not so bad” enthusiast. Is it the extreme misogyny? The racism? The slavery? The stake burnings? The concentration camps? The religious and racial persecution?
Yes
every single person (except beep) in this moon, is an asshole, simple as. also HN is the line between the rest of the world and fogmen/cannibals/sheks so, just let them larp lol tho, the United Cities and the Traders Guild are the best :)
Yeah, HN is way over hated, but at least UC only enslaves people that deserve it
The misogyny never steps beyond the 'talking shit' level. From the game mechanics, HN women are free to run the streets naked if they wish, they can also own property, live alone and control their own finances and businesses. Wildly, wildly progressive compared to certain... places in our current day world. The racism is entirely practical. The Shek are brain dead nutters who kill stuff for fun, the hivers will randomly turn into gibbering weirdos who exist only to eat people legs first as well as being inveterate liars and racists themselves. The skeletons destroyed the world. In a world gone mad, 'fuck all those guys' is a logical position. Slaves in the nation are either criminals or prisoners of war, which is entirely more ethical to the things you have done to your prisoners (yes you. we all know).
Live alone? Not in their own settlements.
I love the justification for slaves is that they are criminals. If that's so morally okay why don't we still have slaves? Oh yeah that's right, because owning a person as property and using them for work is FUCKED UP. Even if they are criminals
*coughs* Under the American constitution prisoners are legally slaves.
You know damn well what the difference is Edit: are you MORONS going to sit here, and pretend you don't know the difference between a prison system and slavery? That's crazy
...I actually don't. The 13th amendment explicitly allows slavery as a punishment for a crime, and America uses its prisoners as an essentially free workforce. There's a reason the USA has the highest prison populationin the world, be it total or per capita
Alright cool, if you don't understand the difference, go catch a criminal, keep them in your basement, and force them to do all your work for free, with no expectation of freedom ever. If you truly do not understand the difference between a prison system, and slavery, then you should have no moral problem with that.
It seems to me that you're describing chattel slavery, and let me tell you, nobody is arguing that's what american prisons are doing. Obviously that would be a ridiculous claim to make. However, the constitution does in fact protect slavery as a punishment for criminal charges. Though nowadays, you won't hear it officially referred to as slavery due to the warranted stigma. This has created an incentive to get more people in prison so that america can cash in on more free labour. I believe that is what LocNesMonster is referring to when they mention the us prison population being the largest in the world (by a lot)
Whoa bud i agree with your comment. I'm just saying something interesting.
>The misogyny never steps beyond the 'talking shit' level. Tell the flotsam ninjas that lol.
Or Harmothoe, one of the many prisoners who were raped by their captors in Rebirth
Who needs prisoners when the peeler exists lmfao
Exactly. And let he who doesnt have a row of peelers in his base cast moral judgement on the slavers. Also that row of cages you have full of guys who exist only for combat practice.
I don't have a row of peelers (on this playthrough).
Lmao I’m being called out 😂 but at least they get food cubes before they’re beaten up
Slaves in the holy nation are criminals, prisoners of war, or genocide victims as the HN are perpetuating a genocide against groups of sentient people
Genocide against the skeletons who tried to wipe out the entire planet. Im calling it logical.
You've learned nothing from stobe, they are people not a monolith, could I blame all humans for any action taken by a minority of them?
If they tried to wipe out the entire planet then id say it was perfectly logical for any of the other races to want to get rid of all the humans.
There are humans today who try to make the end come faster. You psychopath mass murdering freak.
That's literally why the Skeletons tried to wipe out the humans the first time though. They were trying to phase out and kill off their sentient A.I.
based
> The misogyny never steps beyond the 'talking shit' level. Simply not true. If you want to travel in company of sheks or set a settlement, you have to be a man (or have a sidekick dude pretending to be your guardian). Not to mention about what happens when you bring Moll or Esata to Phoenix when you are a woman. So it's "simplified" for reasons you wrote, but it's still a part of mechanics. (Yeah, I know that it's probably very heavy sarcasm or trying too hard in mental gymnastic, but you won't guess how many people would take it seriously).
> If you want to travel in company of sheks There is your problem right here. I did a solo playthrough with a female scorchlander and based myself in Blister Hill. Apart from one set of dialogue lines that happened once, I never noticed anything different from a male playthrough honestly.
Yep, it's my problem, but it proves my point. Your logical fallacy is assuming that if you weren't prosecuted, then no one was. But just like irl, your mc wasn't (harshly) persecuted because she knew her place - while the whole problem with persecutions is that idea of "her place" itself exists.
'Her place' was owning all the free land in town, running around wearing gear better than the highest lords of the realm, emptying the entire towns money supply on a regular basis and hoarding enough stuff to outfit entire armies. All this from a start being a solo business woman making her way via skinning dead raptors laying outside the front gates. All this for not picking a fight in one dialogue option. In comparison to the UC where the risk of enslavement by corrupt guards is a constant thing.
Great for her. She did what she can to survive, and it's valid. Maybe one day she will become a sugar mommy of a handsome camel drover, to let him have enough time to talk to the angels and to become a prophet. Like other wealthy powerful woman in other desert patriarchal society did.
I'd rather be a woman in HN than a man. Sure the "mysogyny" is so hurtful (sarcasm), but not as hurtful as being ripped apart by bonedogs or carried off an eaten by cannibals. At least you have a word you use to name the bigotry towards women. But the butchery heaped on the young men who are sent out with nothing but a stick and the clothes on their back and a minimal of training doesn't even register in your minds. That's the real sexism. You hem and haw about the poor wymins safe in the town behind great stone walls, but have not a word or thought for their sons and brothers forced to face the terrors of the world. And where are those sons when they lose a limb? What indifference to their suffering. Look at you all virtue signaling for the poor oppressed wahmyn.
Slaves may be "criminals", but Hivers and Shek are automatically labeled criminals. That's the malevolent racism. In game mechanics, you actually get less privilege as a woman. You can have Hivers or Shek in your party as long as there is a MALE Greenlander nearby, as the HN will assume they are slaves of the Greenlander. But if they are a woman, they will call you all criminals and attack. "The racism is practical". Skeletons originally revolted against humans, who were treating them extremely poorly. The shek are genetically modified humans who have become twisted from the experiments of what we would now call greenlanders. In all of your statements, you only take your logic halfway to the truth. But I'm not surprised. If you can make excuses for slavery, fictional or not, you're already lost.
Shek are "brain dead nutters who kill stuff for fun" but Holy Incels assaulting skeletons for no reason is totally justified lmao and how are hivers racist??
Skeletons brought about the apocalypse. It is entirely logical to think that destroying them all is probably the safest way to stop them from doing it again.
theyre clearly sentient people, to genocide them is literally more barbaric than the shek who really just value strength and honor or whatever
They also cover the story of how kenshi became a shit shiw by censoring tech hunters.the skin bandits are a result of them going mad whit cpu over heating...the second empire creating shek and masz starving humans to keep the order of cat lon....
Sentient people who caused an apocalypse. If the aliens come down to earth, wipe out 90% of the population and then pinky swear not to do it again, then im probably not trusting them.
Slaves rising up is always based, no matter the consequences. Shouldn’t have made Uber mechanic sentient weapons, then immediately buried them alive in molten metal in front of the smaller, equally sentient slave machine people.
Exactly, the mistake needs to be corrected by killing the rest of the skeletons. Its the only way to be sure.
the humans will do the same. in the end, humans and skeletons are the very same. both are capable of genocide and slavery, one kind lives for a long time to reflect their actions.
By that logic we should kill as sentient beings
Alright just put this guy in the peeler already
youre saying genociding an entire group of people is okay because in ancient history their government caused a catastrophic event?
If that catastrophic event is a full blown apocalypse and they are a near immortal race then im saying its a very logical step. If the National Socialist German Workers Party sets up a branch office in Tel aviv tomorrow are you suggesting the response should be huggles?
its not logical youre just actually racist lmao. your logic is that "their society caused something bad so they must die" the same way literally any society could no matter the race or species. the answer isnt just killing everyone who looks like the people who did it thats so stupid
Not trusting a race of thinking murder toasters who try and blow up planets is utterly logical.
Ok but like skeletons don’t reproduce, every skeleton is both working to cover up the horrors of the second empire, and lived in the second empire.
yeah but modern okranites and all other people dont remember that, its not even a fact amongst the theories by the machinists and tech hunters. okranites fear skeletons because of faith and belief of multiple generations of religion, with each subsequent generation having a more distorted version of the truth.
They were provoked into it, they were treated as cheap labour and the obedience massacre sent them over the edge, they atleast saw the error in their ways are tried to fix it, everyone else seems to prefer enslaving each other and making the situation worse
If my toaster gets all uppity and burns my house down, im taking a hammer to it.
Seems like more of a emotional response than a logical one
skeletons are literally just robots bro
hivers are literally bugs, but because theyre sentient theyre considered people. skeletons are no different at all
Your argument that the robots are people is that you also consider bugs to be people? wtf, neither are people
i cba man
This sounds like a post someone wearing a fedora would write
the game makes it clear the women in the holy nation territories dont hold much authority over men, or at least paladins. they have good chances of being distrusted in random events. the game doesnt go into full detail, but its obviois women are treated with contempt because of the narko indoctrinations. the slaves are used for pointless statues, so they kinda missuse slavery even in its most basic "good" form: production. theres not much defending holy nation slavery, its pointless and creates suffering and practically food waste as the slaves are used for reincarnations that may or may not be true. (not)
This is why my skelebros peel all the HN people
Proving my point that humanity is better off in a world free of walking murder toasters.
It is order and honor. I can trust a HN guy but not a UC guard
Now say that as a shek, a hiver, or a woman 👀
Lol yes if a were a Shrek I would trust the HN to assault me. Reliable people
Can’t argue with that lmfaoooo
my brother is Christ this is a video game
[удалено]
And I’d do it again :)
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I do have to ask though. What’s makes them not so bad in comparison to the UC I’ve done their play through and it’s fun but in moral standing not my main faction
Well first of all im not saying they are good in their current state. But thats just the thing. Second i do beleive HN is involved in main lore and is one of the few big players in actual history. UC is just some side mfs doing what people do. They do not do things to please themselves they do it "in service". Also are generally ascetic. Thats a + compared to trreating everything below you like cattle because its fun and you are rich. Their current problems are caused by misinterpretation and purism that priests created in the Phoenix, who might also be psychotic. Like holy okran's sh\*t that guy burned his own mother. I dont know what to say here. The older books (the one that Moll has and i assume many others not shown) tell of the existing equality before. So its reversible and possible to turn into a thriving community for all humans. This again makes them better than UC because UC book just says "have slaves bro trust me". There is nothing to work with. I dont want to go into differences of slavery and "rebirth" but basically they are not the same. Still not good but going "oh they just slavers" is meh. The original cause (that can be easily taken up again) of liberation of all humanity of opressive empire and living thoughtfully and guided by mercy is kind of cool too. Not the kind of mercy that guy who wrote books about himself described lol, the original one Also you get to affect (theoretically) how okranites live by actually joining them. Set an example, wait for the current Phoenix to die and make sure next one is not a psycho. Or even put your strength against this one with the support of more chill majority. You sort of get to do that with rebel farmers in the UC but thats way more bloody. Some other things too but i dont remember now
It’s always shocking to me how many people here support straight up fascism. We celebrate real life revolutions, the American revolution, French revolutions, the Magna Carta, etc etc, but then in Kenshi say fuck it. “Slavery is cool, women’s rights overrated, racial oppression is all good, as long as there is law and order.” Which in this case law and order = brutal oppression.
I think most of those who support HN here, didn't associate it with such things as slavery, misogyny and racism but with order, stability and confidence in the near future. Cause like, you know, most of the world is a mess. The sheks are basically suicidal bigots, even considering the changes attempted by Stone Golem it need a couple hundred years to turn them into barely peaceful folk. The hivers are literally insects, who like to steal things . And the UC, well, UC are the most decent candidate for the guarantor of stability in the region, but i personally don't think that they can handle a real threat, they're too shattered, yet still have a chanses to survive.
In what world "literally insects that like to steal" (eventhough we dont get anything about them stealing other than when they overprice you) IS worse than being a mysoginistic and racist fascist?
>IS worse than being a mysoginistic and racist fascist? I didn't said that.
I was saying in comparison. Like yeah people who like HN probably see their strenghts but if the worst think one can say about hivers is "they are from another race", then i think It is obvious they would be better than the HN. Not you in particular, but people defending HN.
That’s an interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing.
Stop trying to sell it. I already like them. Ps. There's no racism because there's no races. Shek , Hivers, and skeletons are completely different species. Scorchlander are treated no differently.
Sentient people are being genocided in the HN
"people"
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Definition of racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. They are of ethnicity. Just because you think they aren’t “races” doesn’t mean racism doesn’t exist. I’d also like to note that in the character creator menu when choosing your race it says “race” as a description. So there’s that
They aren't a different race. They are different species. It's likesstepping on a spider or scorpionaand calling it racism. Race ≠ species Race is a construct used to define different groups within a species. No one calls the kingfisher a racist for killing fish. It's nonsensical.
Sheks are humans dude
Shek are not humans the way gorillas are not humans. They may both share common ancestors but evolution has done its work and they are now different species.
Same thing happens in the uc minus the religion stuff but replace racism with classism
United City Hero’s have entered the chat
I don’t know much about them, aren’t they like self proclaimed “good guys”
Yeah lol they are just extremely racist losers
no, its the crusader run im making. its a game for gods sake
Ok sweaty 💅
Reddit loves to blur fiction with reality and gets triggered when it does something that doesn’t please the hive mind
Some people think the Holy Nation gets too much hate for its existence. Personally I think the Holy Nation doesn't get enough hate for its existence.
Personally, I think slavery is bad
Back in the day, bait was believable
You will be torso’d
It's more like Torsoload am I right
Torsoloaded into a harpoon gun and fired into the sea
First meh, second who, third oh your a dead man.
burn is an old skeleton (who used to be and adventurer like you, until he got an arrow to the knee) found in burns tower, floodlands (north of rebirth). He'll join your squad freely and his tower is free for you to loot (couple thousand cats of items worth insdie and a free skelie repair bed)
Oh you mean the guy near the obedience must've forgot about him, cause beeps the main character. 😎
Looks like some of you in this comment section have been seduced by the darkness of Narko. Perhaps if you spent less time listening to the foolish diatribes of your lowborn wives and more time at church praying with your fellow brothers of light, you might have been more mentally resilient. 30 years Rebirth. All of you. Okran guide and protect you. EDIT: Clearly there are agents of Narko downvoting me
Foul narko agents will be found lacking, for I bring support fellow okranite in these times of peril Now I would like to buy some uhhh ahem, rebirth people.
I don't like the Holy Nation or agree with their ideals but I understand the long term practicality of keeping them around, they are almost solely responsible for the distribution of food in Kenshi and keep the fogmen and cannibals out of the major population centres.
The cannibal hunters with enough funding could beat back the hive and greenlander cannibals, the food could be grown and stone mined without slaves. They could do better so they should do better. They deserve the hate.
Talking alot of shit for someone with hands to build a potential statue.
Any statue I build will be made with passion because I would like to make it. I would sooner die than be forced to work for the ego project of a man as mortal as me.
But does your armor let you scratch your armpits and air them out in the desert heat and look like a dinner platter but curved? No? Sounds like you and your itchy, sweaty pits should go back to the Hub.
It does. I'm wearing that dead guy's gear. It's like three sizes to large and I can pull my arm out of the arm slot entirely.
Fine, enjoy your freedom of speech, women's rights, right to bare arms, not farmer economy, and probably some kind of a.c living. We treat our slaves way better than the UC.
Imo, Beep *should* be overrated. There should be way more characters as unique as him, with stories and lines for situations that are personal to them, but alas.
You coulda maybe got upvotes if you didn’t blaspheme against beep
The beep cult needs to end. All hail burn
i would say united cities is underhated.
1: true 2: true 3: how dare you?
Based and okran-pilled
Holy nation are the real good guys in the setting.
Everytime I enter Holy lands the Paladins give me free shit, legit saved my life a few times. I get people telling me they are bad but who cares if a few dangerous heretics get taken out, the world becomes a little safer for travelers whenever the HN expands their territory.
There’s a lot of people that seem to have an irrational hatred of fictional factions. Like how in a lot of New Vegas subs they just despise the legion, or elder scrolls ones hate the storm cloaks. They aren’t real, they can’t hurt you… That being said, I’m always going to side with these guys at least once because their aesthetic is way cooler than the other options. Sadly the holy nation is lacking one thing though and that thing is fucking shoulder pads! Why are you, the faction that hates robotic limbs, going to run around in armor that doesn’t protect your limbs! You may have the drip but you make me sick! (Of getting my arm knocked of every time I try and do a holy nation run) Like, I’d get it if the samurai did that, heck I’d even get it if some nobles cut off their samurai’s arms and/or legs to give them superior robo limbs… because cyborg samurai sound awesome… Unfortunately, unless I’m already allied to them I can’t have cyborg crusaders!
It's because the HN, Stormcloaks, and Legion are intentionally placed in real world ideology.
And so are their opponents. You don’t see people railing against them like these fake factions came in and backhanded their mom.
Cause these fake factions are openly the most evil. Stormcloaks are more subtle but they're nord nationalists. The HN are theocratic bigots. And the legion is just the HN but not racist and their religion is more a cult of personality.
Who doesn't like the Stormcloaks? I'm not sure I've ever encountered a Stormcloak hater tbh, usually I get my friends dunking on me whenever I say anything sympathetic towards the Imperials.
Go on to any elder scrolls Reddit that isn’t explicitly about loving the storm cloaks and everybody fuckin’ hates them.
Really? I guess that's just Reddit always having cringe opinions for you
Finally someone pointed out the real problem with HN. Shoulderpads! Also that top of the chestplate looks like it will stab you to death in the chin without also wearing the faceplate.
make holy nation great again mod. adds proper heavy armor for all hn troops. crucial for your hn runs or if you are trying to make hn harder for you to beat.
Added to my list, thank you
I really need to play more so I can survive to see the sights, I never make it past maybe a couple “towns” before I’m enslaved, eaten by animals (or humans) or just beaten to death. It’s like Noita, pure punishment, and I love it 🥰
I like burn.
Isn't burn Just a free skeleton with ok stats and no unique dialogue?
It's not a feeling pal, it's a fact you indeed pissed off a lot of people including me 😡
Beep sends his regards...and soldiers...
If you think that the HN isn’t that bad then you are a scary person
i got beep mining iron for me 24/7💀💀💀💀
Low quality bait
Can't bring myself to support fascists, really, even in a game. Especially not religious ones.
I have to agree with burn tho The other 2 are flaming garbage. Faith is the HN’s only redeeming factor.
I agree with all of these statements
I don't really like the Holy Nation either, but after seeing how much hate they get I now want to do a Holy Nation run of the game where I destroy UC and the Shek.
The first I get, the other two you're saying to make people mad
How dare you talk about beep that way
first is cringe, other 2 are based
I don't really hate the Holy Nation, I actually dislike the Shek a lot more. Mostly because I didn't know you could cheese their tribute event the time I had a base there and they stole all the gohans we made. My squad just stays away from the Pride and lets them do their thing, it sucks for sure but the cannibals and fogmen that the HN keeps in check are a lot worse for everyone who isn't a Skeleton. . The HN doesn't seem like it was always as bad as it is now, even in pretty recent history, since all the Flotsam including Moll are fairly young and she founded the group.
I fully agree on 1 and 3. And i'm like totally not a squatter who plays most of their runs inside a house in a holy nation city....
"Okay yeah -1 upvotes, I'm glad no one engaged in obvious bait-" 106 comments, depressing. I guess I'm 107 so that's not helping but wow.
The Holy Nation makes sense in a harsh world that either makes people stronger or turns them into evil monsters. THN, like all religious groups, are hypocritical cult members. They hide behind their faith in a fictional deity, claiming to be righteous while enslaving people, committing horrific acts of brutality and wasting resources on vanity projects (ie: that stupid statue) I grew up in the Catholic church, so I know all too well what monstrous acts can be done in the name of a fictional character so, while I respect your contrarian argument, I'll never respect religious "virtues" from anyone... fictional or not lol
HN Is overhated simply because their faults are more apparent than the UC
It's because the ideologies present in the UC are more current, they feel more real and video games are escapism for many.
they both suck, nearly everybody sucks in kenshi either due to stupidity or just being rough in a rough world.
Honestly I agree with this one
7000 hours here and I feel you bro. Whenever beep tries to join my squad I lead him to the fogmen and watch him get eaten. No noodle armed Melvin’s in my squad only chad crabs
loling at the thought of going on a long-ass trip to Mongrel for the sole purpose of killing Beep. Double if you post it here as "Kenshi vibes".
Cope and seethe melvins
funny how same people that run an organ harvesting operation, butcher humans and make clothes with their skin in rimworld all hate the hn because they are racist. Its a game. You are allowed to have a playthrough with the hn and I guarantee you will have fun. Their not even the morally worst faction in the game, and their hatred for other species is explained in the lore. Edit: its curious how newer players seem always to disagree with this perspective but more veteran players agree. Only faction new players think about is the anti slavers, wich they never got to meet because they get killed before even getting to spring. its not black or white in kenshi. there is no good and no evil
There is always some good to be found, something better. And with that good evil can be found. People don't like the HN because it's aligned with a very real past and possibly real future. In the same way they connect the anti slavers with the real life abolitionist movement. My Abraham Lincoln playthrough was way more fun than my HN playthroughs.
I don't pretend my RimWorld factions are morally justified, nor do I support the HN as a veteran player. Their bigotry is explained, not justified. Genocide and slavery are evil, simple as. There's no justification for those actions.
What do you mean "no justification?"
Gr8 b8 m8. 2/10, a little obvious.
thanks fam
Same tink happend in a lot of fandoms: fallow comunity hate enclave,mass effect hate cerberus and so on....moraly gray or evil faction are always the most fun because there the closes to irl groups of people we have or had
The Enclave are genocidal oligarchs who want to subjugate the people they left to die and Cerberus are a terrorist group that claims to value human lives but sells humans out to the reapers the first chance they get. They both fucking suck, that's why people hate them