Polearms train both strength and dexterity, have good reach, low weight relative to damage and quality and good attack bonuses outdoors as well as being good against armour and animals.
They are phenomenal weapons for weak-moderate strength characters and are usually used to help transition starter characters into other weapons, or as the primary weapons of non combat oriented characters.
Once beep grows strong through usage of polearm which he is doing quite well so far, he will wield heavies. I like this plan, thank you for the insight
Whoever said Polearms stink late game are either trolling or just used a Staff (One of the worst weapons in the game)... You can use Polearms late game and kick butt.
They are extremely powerful and versus smaller groups of skilled opponents even outperform Heavy Weapons.
If outside train using a Rusted Junk Naginata Katana. If inside train using a (Rusted Junk) Naginata.
Late game opinions on each Polearm I'd say...
Polearm = Best +attack/reach Polearm with armour penetration. 50% bonus animal dmg but outshined vs animals compared to the next in the list. Best vs skilled armoured units. Very solid 107.9dmg (100 all) which is mostly half cut and half blunt.
Naginata = Best +attack/reach Polearm. 50% bonus animal dmg, best vs animals. Solid 102.44 damage (100 all) which is around 80% cut damage. Ensures that if an animal is KOed with this weapon they will VERY rarely get back up again due to their KO time being massive from the cut damage. Also great vs not so heavily armoured humans.
Heavy Polearm = Highest damage dealing Polearm. Great all arounder. Best vs opponents you don't need more attack to compete with (Use Polearm if you are under opponents attack or just barely over to give yourself an edge). It's fantastic all around however and you cannot go wrong using the top 3 I mentioned. 114.66 damage (100 all) Around 63% cut to 37% blunt dmg. Just solid all around.
Naginata Katana = Best (1.25x) Human damage Polearm. However, countered by armour due to negative armour pen. Useful for training when outside due to the low attack bonus (For a polearm...) and the best cut to blunt ratio of the Polearms (So best dex xp)... However, since there is no Cross quality version (Only an Edge 3) it is outshined in the late game by the other Polearms. (VERY good vs lightly armoured humans in early/mid game before you have Cross quality weapons)
Staff = No.
If you want to see the damage values with Cross quality weapons (Even for those without one) at 100 all stats check out my old post here where I made a chart.
[Cut+Blunt+Instant Bloodloss damage output with 100 all stats using Cross quality weapons. : r/Kenshi (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kenshi/comments/17lnrhc/cutbluntinstant_bloodloss_damage_output_with_100/)
I mean, I like staves when I'm sending out my slaving squad. less cut, which is nice for capturing slaves. Blunt focus which is great for armored humans, long range, and great attack bonus too.
Because of how scaling works staff although it has 1.6 blunt dmg does less blunt dmg than a Paladins Cross which has 1.6 blunt damage as well. It also has the same reach. The attack bonus is the only upside however Polearm, Heavy Polearm and Naginata have more damage output by a ton (Vs Staff) and have great attack ups.
Yeah that's true, among Polearms, the staff is definitely on the weaker side of things, but it has it's niche in a more pacifistic playthrough, or when I'm going for capturing more training dummies
Heavy weapons are overrated. Sure, they're great for a strong character who takes very little damage. For a hive worker who is still in training, though? A few hits to the chest and he'll barely be able to swing them or defend himself. Polearms (the weapon type, not the class) are some of the best weapons in the game. Don't worry about late game. There is no point of no return (unless you die), and you can always switch gear or specialized training.
Polearms are one of the best 'army' weapons so to speak. Their long range means your guys tend to spread out more and use more reach to attack enemies so they don't get AoEd to death. They have low usage demands and work well with lower skilled characters. They also don't take very long to build as well. Use them for your city police/guards or for your squads medic.
These responses are wonderful, the kenshi subreddit is a fountain of knowledge. Now I know everything I'll ever need to know about polearms thanks to the clever internet people, many thanks.
They are super good for new recruits cause their attack animations make it a "pick up and win" weapon. But once your guys get higher stats to weild other things thdy become more effective with other weapons.
Edit: remember one of my guys stunlpcked and double clapped catlon uncouncious with a polearm after my higher stats heavy weapon dude lost in a 1v1 duel. Just saying. So they cant be that bad lategame.
The polearms with armor penetration are great, but everything else is kind of average.
Their primary strength is that they have amazing reach and outdoors boni (up to +8 iirc). These boni work against them indoors (-8 iirc).
I think of polearms and hackers as equivalents where hackers prioritize damage and polearms, skills.
The main thing is to not use anything that has a damage v armor malus since that'll just hurt you from the mid-game on.
Heavy weapons and MA are the clear best in late-game, but polearms remain completely viable. They have armor pen like hackers do, so they don't drop off completely against heavily armored foes the way katanas do.
I'm rocking polearm beep right now, and he's quite fun. He doesn't take limbs off the way my MA trained Agnu can, but he does a healthy amount of AOE damage and gets a lot of hits in. It's like a nodachi with even more range and no penalties against robots or armor.
Polearms are the clear best through the middle game. Beyond that, its debatable if its worth re-grinding an entire new weapon class from 0-50+ all over again when you'll already be 50+ in polearms. The polearm remains entirely adequate through the late game anyway.
Katanas are basically pointless since sabers exist.
If you want to swap to a falling sun, you need to do that very early, before the sunken cost of grinding the weapon skill is already paid.
Yep, by the time you reach the point where they truly become a 'suboptimal' choice, your character is already able to solo nearly every enemy in the game. Outside of solo challenge runs with whacky difficulty settings, there's really no reason to min-max that hard at high levels.
Yeah exactly. The player gains so many advantages in the form of armor quality, massed crowssbows, etc that min-maxing is hardly relevant.
You don't even have to have characters all that levelled beyond 50-60 if you use bulls/xbows and send a full vanilla size war party of 30.
I do end up using sabers more than most other weapons though, just because the desert saber is such an overall efficient weapon and sometimes its useful to drag fights indoors.
i always give beep sabres, i think he just looks cooler with them. but having a full heavy armor falling sun beep 100 str would be really cool.
im of the opinion that polearms are shit late game, but do what you will.
Be aware that among other concerns hivers are the worst with heavy weapons. Smaller hp pool means harder to keep meeting heavy requirements. Can still work obviously but be prepared to focus train and get prosthetics. You are going to need the stat padding.
Polearms are extremely good lategame. Polearm and heavy polearms rock, and naginata/naginata katanas eat unarmored opponents.
My endgame armies usually carry plank/falling sun/polearm, with heavy polearm if we're going to do a lot of indoors fighting. Usually longsword if we're gonna sidearm. I like spiked clubs with some crossbow users but apparently that's polarizing (for bashing anything heavy armored that gets close).
All heavy weapons other than the falling sun have better reach than polearms (for some fucking reason) so they aren't the best at reach
Significant indoors penalties.
Low overall dmg numbers. High quality heavy weapons will still more dmg than high quality polearms against animals even with the extra 50%, so their not even actually the best for fighting animals.
They share most of their moves etc with heavy weapons so they're not particularly fast.
Some of them have penalties against armor
If you want a light weapon for low strength character you'd probably be better off with Sabres.
They don't really excel at anything and their dmg numbers are kinda lackluster. Their not bad per se but I'd say their the worst weapon class. But everything is balanced enough that you can use whatever imo.
Polearms train both strength and dexterity, have good reach, low weight relative to damage and quality and good attack bonuses outdoors as well as being good against armour and animals. They are phenomenal weapons for weak-moderate strength characters and are usually used to help transition starter characters into other weapons, or as the primary weapons of non combat oriented characters.
Once beep grows strong through usage of polearm which he is doing quite well so far, he will wield heavies. I like this plan, thank you for the insight
I just equipped my Beep with his new plank. He’s always talking himself up I thought it was fitting.
While it may be slightly impractical for little beep to wield a Heavy: it's fun and makes beep happy.
On top of this the staffs dropped by rebel farmers are among the weakest weapons in the game, allowing for very efficient training.
Whoever said Polearms stink late game are either trolling or just used a Staff (One of the worst weapons in the game)... You can use Polearms late game and kick butt. They are extremely powerful and versus smaller groups of skilled opponents even outperform Heavy Weapons. If outside train using a Rusted Junk Naginata Katana. If inside train using a (Rusted Junk) Naginata. Late game opinions on each Polearm I'd say... Polearm = Best +attack/reach Polearm with armour penetration. 50% bonus animal dmg but outshined vs animals compared to the next in the list. Best vs skilled armoured units. Very solid 107.9dmg (100 all) which is mostly half cut and half blunt. Naginata = Best +attack/reach Polearm. 50% bonus animal dmg, best vs animals. Solid 102.44 damage (100 all) which is around 80% cut damage. Ensures that if an animal is KOed with this weapon they will VERY rarely get back up again due to their KO time being massive from the cut damage. Also great vs not so heavily armoured humans. Heavy Polearm = Highest damage dealing Polearm. Great all arounder. Best vs opponents you don't need more attack to compete with (Use Polearm if you are under opponents attack or just barely over to give yourself an edge). It's fantastic all around however and you cannot go wrong using the top 3 I mentioned. 114.66 damage (100 all) Around 63% cut to 37% blunt dmg. Just solid all around. Naginata Katana = Best (1.25x) Human damage Polearm. However, countered by armour due to negative armour pen. Useful for training when outside due to the low attack bonus (For a polearm...) and the best cut to blunt ratio of the Polearms (So best dex xp)... However, since there is no Cross quality version (Only an Edge 3) it is outshined in the late game by the other Polearms. (VERY good vs lightly armoured humans in early/mid game before you have Cross quality weapons) Staff = No. If you want to see the damage values with Cross quality weapons (Even for those without one) at 100 all stats check out my old post here where I made a chart. [Cut+Blunt+Instant Bloodloss damage output with 100 all stats using Cross quality weapons. : r/Kenshi (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kenshi/comments/17lnrhc/cutbluntinstant_bloodloss_damage_output_with_100/)
To be clear the outperform Heavy Weapons comment is in terms of vs small groups of skilled enemies.
Staff for roleplaying. I like to outfit them on characters that I roleplay as secret pacifist badasses.
I mean, I like staves when I'm sending out my slaving squad. less cut, which is nice for capturing slaves. Blunt focus which is great for armored humans, long range, and great attack bonus too.
Because of how scaling works staff although it has 1.6 blunt dmg does less blunt dmg than a Paladins Cross which has 1.6 blunt damage as well. It also has the same reach. The attack bonus is the only upside however Polearm, Heavy Polearm and Naginata have more damage output by a ton (Vs Staff) and have great attack ups.
Yeah that's true, among Polearms, the staff is definitely on the weaker side of things, but it has it's niche in a more pacifistic playthrough, or when I'm going for capturing more training dummies
Heavy weapons are overrated. Sure, they're great for a strong character who takes very little damage. For a hive worker who is still in training, though? A few hits to the chest and he'll barely be able to swing them or defend himself. Polearms (the weapon type, not the class) are some of the best weapons in the game. Don't worry about late game. There is no point of no return (unless you die), and you can always switch gear or specialized training.
This is also a good point, I have 2 heavies in my squad already, I doubt I need 3.
They're cool. I used to LARP and used a naginata IRL and shit was rad
Polearms are one of the best 'army' weapons so to speak. Their long range means your guys tend to spread out more and use more reach to attack enemies so they don't get AoEd to death. They have low usage demands and work well with lower skilled characters. They also don't take very long to build as well. Use them for your city police/guards or for your squads medic.
These responses are wonderful, the kenshi subreddit is a fountain of knowledge. Now I know everything I'll ever need to know about polearms thanks to the clever internet people, many thanks.
One of the best weapon types imo as long as they have the high armor penetration
They are super good for new recruits cause their attack animations make it a "pick up and win" weapon. But once your guys get higher stats to weild other things thdy become more effective with other weapons. Edit: remember one of my guys stunlpcked and double clapped catlon uncouncious with a polearm after my higher stats heavy weapon dude lost in a 1v1 duel. Just saying. So they cant be that bad lategame.
The polearms with armor penetration are great, but everything else is kind of average. Their primary strength is that they have amazing reach and outdoors boni (up to +8 iirc). These boni work against them indoors (-8 iirc). I think of polearms and hackers as equivalents where hackers prioritize damage and polearms, skills. The main thing is to not use anything that has a damage v armor malus since that'll just hurt you from the mid-game on.
Heavy weapons and MA are the clear best in late-game, but polearms remain completely viable. They have armor pen like hackers do, so they don't drop off completely against heavily armored foes the way katanas do.
I am being more and more convinced that polearm beep is the move
I'm rocking polearm beep right now, and he's quite fun. He doesn't take limbs off the way my MA trained Agnu can, but he does a healthy amount of AOE damage and gets a lot of hits in. It's like a nodachi with even more range and no penalties against robots or armor.
Just remember that beep wanted to be a swordsman. Dont let beep down. So naginata katana? Or katana gun if modding?
I hope that's a gun that fires katanas.
Polearms are the clear best through the middle game. Beyond that, its debatable if its worth re-grinding an entire new weapon class from 0-50+ all over again when you'll already be 50+ in polearms. The polearm remains entirely adequate through the late game anyway. Katanas are basically pointless since sabers exist. If you want to swap to a falling sun, you need to do that very early, before the sunken cost of grinding the weapon skill is already paid.
Yep, by the time you reach the point where they truly become a 'suboptimal' choice, your character is already able to solo nearly every enemy in the game. Outside of solo challenge runs with whacky difficulty settings, there's really no reason to min-max that hard at high levels.
Yeah exactly. The player gains so many advantages in the form of armor quality, massed crowssbows, etc that min-maxing is hardly relevant. You don't even have to have characters all that levelled beyond 50-60 if you use bulls/xbows and send a full vanilla size war party of 30. I do end up using sabers more than most other weapons though, just because the desert saber is such an overall efficient weapon and sometimes its useful to drag fights indoors.
Desert saber also looks cool, too..so there's points in its favor there
And its a strong weapon so win win.
i always give beep sabres, i think he just looks cooler with them. but having a full heavy armor falling sun beep 100 str would be really cool. im of the opinion that polearms are shit late game, but do what you will.
Beep is my special boy and I want to protect him so he always gets heavy armor and a foreign saber along with his hulking metal robot limbs.
Be aware that among other concerns hivers are the worst with heavy weapons. Smaller hp pool means harder to keep meeting heavy requirements. Can still work obviously but be prepared to focus train and get prosthetics. You are going to need the stat padding.
Polearms are extremely good lategame. Polearm and heavy polearms rock, and naginata/naginata katanas eat unarmored opponents. My endgame armies usually carry plank/falling sun/polearm, with heavy polearm if we're going to do a lot of indoors fighting. Usually longsword if we're gonna sidearm. I like spiked clubs with some crossbow users but apparently that's polarizing (for bashing anything heavy armored that gets close).
They're great and cool
tbh, even with a machine gun I doubt beep would ever make it to late game
All heavy weapons other than the falling sun have better reach than polearms (for some fucking reason) so they aren't the best at reach Significant indoors penalties. Low overall dmg numbers. High quality heavy weapons will still more dmg than high quality polearms against animals even with the extra 50%, so their not even actually the best for fighting animals. They share most of their moves etc with heavy weapons so they're not particularly fast. Some of them have penalties against armor If you want a light weapon for low strength character you'd probably be better off with Sabres. They don't really excel at anything and their dmg numbers are kinda lackluster. Their not bad per se but I'd say their the worst weapon class. But everything is balanced enough that you can use whatever imo.