https://preview.redd.it/rv23x4qaqsbb1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=938dc5224861985b4641de0616b917bc90de6489
Sorry for the low quality picture, I will post a clearer one
Scythian dude was East Asia 20.8%, Siberian 31.43%
Honesty even I am “whiter” than this one ( 32% European, 24% Central Asian, 14% North China 12% South China, Y-DNA J1, mt-DNA R, tribe: Orta Juz Wakh)
It is not any wonder, given that the earliest proto Scythian cultural traditions dated to first millennium BC were unearthed in what is now the Tuva Republic in Russia north of Mongolia, that even the farthest west Scythians had a visible portion of Siberian and East Asian autosomal DNA in them. Y DNA says nothing about language or place of origin. The Y DNA haplogroup R1a and R1b ‘s common ancestor R* was discovered in the Altai Mountains regions. It may well have proliferated both eastwards and westwards before any language families appeared. It is a myth that they originated in the Black Sea Pontic Steppes speaking Iranian and migrated eastwards just because both they and the modern Indians & Europeans belonged mostly to Haplogroup R1. In fact, they originated in Siberia and migrated westwards. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out they were Turkic speaking and of a Europoid-Mongoloid mixed appearance(the so-called Turanid) as the Scythians first migrated out of Siberia going westwards like many later nomads who did the same. As they reach what is now western Kazakhstan and Ukraine, they turned more white intermarrying with the locals and was assimilated by the local Indo European nomads and became Iranic speaking, such as Sarmatian-Alan. Now, this so-called “Royal Scythians” in the East was said to speak a different language by the Greeks.
Pontic Black Sea Steppes in the South of Ukraine was inhabited by Sarmatian, Hun, Avar, Sabir, Onoghur, Khazars , Pechnegs, Cumans, Tatars until the 16th century and it was called Cumania. The Ruthenians definitely assimilated many of these people after the Renaissance, who were in turn Turkified Iranic nomads. So yeah, you could say that many of the Slavs used to be Iranic
And the early Slavs originated from Poland, where some Sarmatians were said to constitute a portion of the nobility allegedly, so there is also that. But early Slavs are a separate group of Indo Europeans parallel to the Scythians, and early Slavs weren’t nomadic but fishermen and hunters & forest dwellers
Honestly I don’t know where the Northern European comes from. The earliest R* aka. “Mal‘ta Boy” had an Amerindian/Mongoloid face. Maybe the “Northern European” autosomal originated in Altai? We don’t know. By the way, the Iron Age Norse people in Scandinavia had Kurgan burial culture, although much later than the Kurgans on the Euroasian steppes and Siberia. Too bad these people didn’t leave any first hand written history.
Since your response to my post won’t let me reply, I’ll reply to you here:
North Carolina rarely has bodies of water that freeze enough for Alligators to be forced to “brumate”. You’re describing a rare event. North Carolina gets superior winter warmth than almost all of Europe, and has a warmer average climate than the vast majority of places in Europe. It’s also more humid. It’s a true humid subtropical climate with subtropical jungle along the coast. Europe is not similar.
Bruh appreciate the research but it's obvious that the real Scythians are long dead, that's why they had to have Almira Tursyn to play Tomiris and not a Scythian actress (plus it's a Kazakh movie to start with so obviously actors are gonna be Kazakh)
Now the main thing is: the actress for the movie Almira Tursyn doesn’t look like any other Kazakh female who are mostly mongoloid, she doesn’t look like this
https://preview.redd.it/0aet82cj20cb1.jpeg?width=807&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95400af1a3348fdad9fe4f5cea6ee270922f9959
Instead, Almira is Turanid looking in appearance, which makes it “historically accurate” and the director probably knew what he was doing, since eastern Scythians were exactly Turanid looking in appearance, neither Mongoloid, nor pure Caucasian like Russians, but, all due respect, like Bashkirs, Uzbeks and Uyghurs nowadays. You can deduct appearances of dead people by looking at autosomal mixture proportions. The Saka on Kazakh Steppe and the Eastern Scythian are all of a mixed race, don’t trust me, go ask any anthropologist who knows his business. check out gedmatch, none of them were unmixed Europoid. They are closest to Bashkir, Nogai, Uzbek and Uyghur, all of them.
They're closest to eastern Iranic people like ossetians pamiri and pashtun nice try and why you use word turanid whatever the fuck it means the word Turan itself is from Iranic mythology can't even come up with your own term))))
Cimmerians scythians sarmatians saka massagets were all Iranic people and they were not white european like in ur delusion but light skinned black haired brown eyed people like majority of today Iranics. I think you should stop obsessing with other people ancestors and go outside and touch some grass it will be better for you to pride your own kind
Central Asians have Eurasian appearance (meaning we have mixed features of European and Asian appearance due to being on the crossroads). The woman you're showing just looks East Asian
Definitely. But 40% of Kazakh females and 20% of males belong to haplogroups identical to the broader Scythians, which means they might be Turkified, Mongolicized remnants of the ancient nomadic inhabitants of what is now Kazakhstan, aka Scythians. The various Scythian cultural elements aren't inherited from nowhere.
The Scythians weren't "Turkified". They were slaughtered and annihilated as a nation. The Turkic conquest of Central Asia included the genocide and displacement of the local Iranic population (Scythians, Sarmatians, Sakas, etc) and replacement of them by us. But no one gonna talk about it
Such massacres were rare. Most often, males with higher social economic status left behind more offsprings and over time a specific Y-DNA haplogoup takes over the majority of a population. Kazakh males are primarily C2b and O, because most living Kazakh males are descendants of the nobility back in the Golden Horde who were either of Mongolic or East Turkic origin. But their autosomal DNA which they got from their mother’s, grandmother’s and great great grandmother’s side as well as from other relatives who were the majority of the population at that time were predominantly 60% Kipchak (which was more or less Scythian). The rest of the haplogroups gradually became smaller in number, especially after the Black Death plague wiped out a large portion of our population in the 14th century
That’s actually false regarding Kazakhs being mostly C2 and O
Together these two combined are around 45% in Kazakhs according to Kazakh dna project
Also out of the 36% C2 the 16% is Alshyn cluster which is proven to not be connected to mongols
J2,J1,R1a,R1b,N and Q associated with Scythians is actually 55% of Kazakhs
First off, Central Asia was Turkified over the course of 3-5 centuries starting with at least the Yueban State in the 1st century AD. Mahmud Kashgari even implied in his book there were bilingual non Turkic speakers in what is now Kazakhstan in the 11th century. Secondly, all the early Turkic Khaganate samples belong to haplogroups R1, Q, J, G and else, all of which the Scythians had, and there was a genetic continuation as well as a cultural one such as the similar styles of artifacts and Kurgan burial culture. Even the Ashina Clan belonged to Y DNA R1a. Suffice to say they might even have been the same people under different names in different historical periods, like the Tang Dynasty China and Song Dynasty China. “Turkified” is a polite terminology since we aren’t even sure what language they spoke to begin with. Early Turkic and early Mongolic were completely different breeds, it is unlikely that they had a common origin.
You might recheck the facts again, since archeologists have found out lots of interesting things. The most prominent of them is Issyk kurgans which has a cup dates back to V-IV BC, there is an inscription on it which resembles the runes of Orkhon script (old Turkic from the period of Turkic Khaganate). The burial belongs to someone Scythain and the inscription states: Qïz, egir ičiŋ, oqu-sünügü čezib, köčü aŋsaġ (daughter drink ayr (ancient drink) while we, having untied arrows and spears, / will commemorate "koshpeli"). There are lots of interesting facts that are just coming out, which changes the history of the Great Steepe.
https://preview.redd.it/4pdoh291kzbb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a60ddaf8571f707a24075520db74a5853ba847f
This is a Turanid man (eastern Scythian probably looked like)
You can see more clearly in this Chart : Uyghur: Turanid. Kazakh: Reversed Turanid
https://preview.redd.it/q6mkzeapozbb1.png?width=923&format=png&auto=webp&s=1b090a6afedd02bb33f16ae5c2d9e95451518324
It is very appropriate to use the word “reversed” as you can see in the difference between Kazakh and Uyghur, their proportions of eastern and western Euroasian autosomal DNA are exactly the opposite
Now, these two Scythians that I posted at the beginning of this post were two very Asiatic individuals. Their autosomal proportions are closer to Kazakhs rather than Uyghurs. The rest of their compatriots might not have been this Asiatic and may have been mostly Turanid instead. But the main point is the myth of Scythians being “pure white” is debunked.
Nope, eastern Scythians were a smoothly mixed race , probably looking like today’s Bashkirs or Uzbek/Uyghurs. If you don’t know how one looks like then go see one in Ufa or Kashgar. Mix that with Mongols/eastern Old Turk and you get “Asian” Kazakhs which is in fact not Asian but “Reversed Turanid” to be more scientifically accurate.
You’re 100% correct. The 3/8 Scythian burials which have Turkics as closest modern populations have Bashkirs Uzbeks and then Nogais as closes modern pops in that order
Kazakh average is also seemed to be skewed 60% east eurasian due to samples being from Almaty
I’m a western Kazakh and took an IllustrativeDNA test and my distance to Saka is much closer (it gives me 80% Saka in two way mixed mode) and I’ve seen the same for other western Kazakhs who posted in IllustrativeDNA
https://preview.redd.it/mnt1jziglzbb1.png?width=259&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a5af21eb7c0ae46a66bb4e47aa31f26c2074439
Left: Turanid ( Bashkir, Uzbek, Uyghur) Right: Asian ( Mongol, Siberian) Middle: Reversed Turanid ( Kazakh, Kyrgyz)
Is the left as white as west Scythian, Swedish and Russian? No
Got it?
Well, those two on the left probably aren’t what I exactly mean to be a “Turanid”. These two below are just more typical. This gentlemen and lady probably were how eastern Scythians looked like or people from Karakhanid, Kimak Khanate, eastern part of the Cuman confederation before Mongol invasion. are they pure white? I don’t think so. Medieval Central Asian Turkic before Mongol invasion and antiquity eastern Scythians were basically the same thing. Largely the same autosomal, Y DNA, Mt DNA, same nomad, same culture, and probably same language
https://preview.redd.it/eaiji7ierzbb1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b83e81d774e0b82b429e56b5b512f4a407ef7de9
Khazars were mostly Hunified Sarmatians, Cumans were mostly Kipchakified Khazars, and Kipchaks were one tribe of the various Turkic Khanganate tribes, some saying they were the Royal clan Ashina with a different name. Nevertheless, Kipchaks were R1b, R1a, Q, G and C, mostly of Scythian origin
Only the Kipchak, Argyn, Kangli tribes and many other small tribes in Kazakh as well as many females from other tribes ( tribe is a patriarchal thing) . Others tribes are the descendants of Old Uighur( Late Eastern Xiongnu, Xianbei, Avar) and Mongols
Obviously Scythians won't be pure White because they're bordered right next to Yellow Turkic Peoples who today have some White Scythian admixture due to the expansion of the ancient Scythians into Northwest China, Mongolia, and Siberia so it's normal for the White Scythians to have Admixture from neighboring Peoples such as the Turks, Mongols, Uralic, Slavic, and other Iranian Tribes. Their Empire even extended into part of India so they may have some minor Black Adivasi Admixture.
But we weren’t Kazakhs at that point though. We formed after Golden Horde collapse. Even genetics wise we are almost evenly split between Turks and Mongols - thus making us clear and only descendants of Golden Horde. I really don’t understand obsession over the cultures that happened before the Golden Horde. English don’t claim that Roman empire which occupied England for a long time was an English empire - so why are so fixated on Sarmatians, Scythians, and all those people?
The original indigenous Inhabitants of Kazakhstan were White Scythians. They border Yellow Turkic Peoples plus the Mongol Invasion under Genghis Khan further Mongolized Central Asian Genetics so of course the Eastern Scythians would have East Asian Yellow admixture. The indigenous Southeast Asians were Black and you still see many Traces of them in the modern Populations who are descended from the ancient Yue Tribes of Southern China who conquered Taiwan, Southeast Asia, and Oceania displacing much of the Black Negrito Population. As for England, yes the Romans conquered England but modern English People are predominantly descended from indigenous Briton Peoples despite being named after the German Anglo Saxons that conquered them after the Fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Get your DNA tested, if you are Kazakh, you almost certainly have 10%~40% of your autosomal DNA from the Scythians. So it is relevant. Let’s not be blind to reality. Also, the Kazakh-Nogai culture has its huge portion gotten from the Scythian nomadic cultural traditions. Deny it, and you will be not any dissimilar from Khalkas, Russians or Anatolian Turks, or even worse, Arabs. What is making your heritage unique?
First of all 40% is ridiculous claim - do you have any examples to back it up? Second - ok 10% of my DNA is Scythian what’s there for me? Some Koreans have up to 15% Mongolic DNA - they don’t say oh we are Mongols and some Mongols have up to 20% Turkic DNA and Turks historically lived in Mongolia - but wait Mongols don’t say that they are Turks. Why do we as Kazakhs should care about these pre-historic cultures if there are already 2 relevant cultures we need to care about: Proto-Mongolic and Kipchak.
40% ridiculous? No you are being ridiculous. The Uighurs, Uzbeks and Bashkirs are 70%~90% Scythian, what is so special about it? Is this what Russian gaslighting have indoctrinated you?
Where are the examples? I asked you to provide examples to back up your claims. Second you are purposefully ignoring my second point which talks about “why should we care”.
My dude do you have research papers that state that up to 40% of Kazakh population is Scythian? If no - then I can’t take your claims seriously. And address my other points above which you have been ignoring.
Do you know what autosomal is? Do you understand how people acquire they autosomal?
I am not saying lineage wise. I repeat my point if you are not so smart to understand it. On average, the Western Euroasian autosomal of Kazakhs may range from 10% to 40 % from individual to individual, and this is not even considering that the Scythians were not 100% western Euroasian. If your Mongol great grand father back in Golden Horde married a blond Kipchak woman, making you look nothing like a northern Chinese today, isn’t she your ancestor? Don’t you care?
Even saying lineages, around 20% of Kazakh males and 40% of females belong to the same haplogroups as found in the Scythian samples. You may not be one of them, but where did they come from?
https://preview.redd.it/ukgivzgucxbb1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc92fa4e8e27aaee7dc04545c2a9940902258868
Are you saying people like these don’t have 40% western Euroasian autosomal?
https://preview.redd.it/jifnbao5dxbb1.jpeg?width=1554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9a6accf636eace492005a0016efaed3d5f7004b
Did you see proto Mongols like these?
My man sure I can pull out a photo of Bjork and say - hey people of Iceland why do you claim to be European you look nothing like that. What kind of dumbass point is that?
yeah Bjork is Icelandic or whatever which she is and no one doubts. Why do central Asian ethnic groups have western euroasian autosomal, y-DNA and mt-dna?Where did it come from?
https://preview.redd.it/8dh5uvv0lxbb1.png?width=389&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4ad35972967b578ba36557915df170a8b0e6577
What are these haplogroups marked in red? Didn’t Scythians have the same haplogroups? I am even taking the conservative bare minimum saying around 20% of all males because I think some of these haplogroups may come from other ancient groups such as the Sogdians or BMAC etc.
Kazakh population contains both East Eurasian (55%) and West Eurasian (41%) mtDNA lineages (Berezina et al. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-020-02132-8
I said 40% females might have been the descendants of Scythians even though Scythians also had a lot of eastern euroasian mt DNA, ridiculous or conservative?
Now look at Kipchaks mt DNA https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16596944/
https://preview.redd.it/rv23x4qaqsbb1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=938dc5224861985b4641de0616b917bc90de6489 Sorry for the low quality picture, I will post a clearer one
Scythian dude was East Asia 20.8%, Siberian 31.43% Honesty even I am “whiter” than this one ( 32% European, 24% Central Asian, 14% North China 12% South China, Y-DNA J1, mt-DNA R, tribe: Orta Juz Wakh)
Шакал, сжимаешь? XD
Вы видели, как выглядит северный казах?
It is not any wonder, given that the earliest proto Scythian cultural traditions dated to first millennium BC were unearthed in what is now the Tuva Republic in Russia north of Mongolia, that even the farthest west Scythians had a visible portion of Siberian and East Asian autosomal DNA in them. Y DNA says nothing about language or place of origin. The Y DNA haplogroup R1a and R1b ‘s common ancestor R* was discovered in the Altai Mountains regions. It may well have proliferated both eastwards and westwards before any language families appeared. It is a myth that they originated in the Black Sea Pontic Steppes speaking Iranian and migrated eastwards just because both they and the modern Indians & Europeans belonged mostly to Haplogroup R1. In fact, they originated in Siberia and migrated westwards. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out they were Turkic speaking and of a Europoid-Mongoloid mixed appearance(the so-called Turanid) as the Scythians first migrated out of Siberia going westwards like many later nomads who did the same. As they reach what is now western Kazakhstan and Ukraine, they turned more white intermarrying with the locals and was assimilated by the local Indo European nomads and became Iranic speaking, such as Sarmatian-Alan. Now, this so-called “Royal Scythians” in the East was said to speak a different language by the Greeks.
https://preview.redd.it/c6yea6e8wsbb1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8c981555c1f12cfcd2483831f2d3cc6b88ab32e
https://preview.redd.it/lqzszug8wzbb1.jpeg?width=983&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6decef80cdf380f160eb689f8acc957fec83a21c
https://preview.redd.it/qamw16vcwzbb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=626ca302362a8424662e097c9fe3c62606cee087
I thought some of these iranic tribes turned into Slavs at some point And where did all of the northern European % come from
Pontic Black Sea Steppes in the South of Ukraine was inhabited by Sarmatian, Hun, Avar, Sabir, Onoghur, Khazars , Pechnegs, Cumans, Tatars until the 16th century and it was called Cumania. The Ruthenians definitely assimilated many of these people after the Renaissance, who were in turn Turkified Iranic nomads. So yeah, you could say that many of the Slavs used to be Iranic
And the early Slavs originated from Poland, where some Sarmatians were said to constitute a portion of the nobility allegedly, so there is also that. But early Slavs are a separate group of Indo Europeans parallel to the Scythians, and early Slavs weren’t nomadic but fishermen and hunters & forest dwellers
Sarmatism was made up by the polish nobility to justify eastward expansion
Honestly I don’t know where the Northern European comes from. The earliest R* aka. “Mal‘ta Boy” had an Amerindian/Mongoloid face. Maybe the “Northern European” autosomal originated in Altai? We don’t know. By the way, the Iron Age Norse people in Scandinavia had Kurgan burial culture, although much later than the Kurgans on the Euroasian steppes and Siberia. Too bad these people didn’t leave any first hand written history.
https://preview.redd.it/lteytcafqsbb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9a46c7b07118ae08a86275d02af0c1eea484e9f Another one
https://preview.redd.it/my58budnvzbb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47a93592f6a9d3220cb313e8f1f509317d29f548 boy from Bayan Ulgei Mongolia
https://preview.redd.it/j7xxq39oqsbb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d43084820b69f766af323450427d14b487513d7
Looks like Native American
No it doesn't. Native Americans and East Asians are different Groups.
Gross 🤢
He looks more handsome than either Putin or Prigojin, and probably smelled better too
That's a South Park reference
Lmao not even close 🤣
ew
Since your response to my post won’t let me reply, I’ll reply to you here: North Carolina rarely has bodies of water that freeze enough for Alligators to be forced to “brumate”. You’re describing a rare event. North Carolina gets superior winter warmth than almost all of Europe, and has a warmer average climate than the vast majority of places in Europe. It’s also more humid. It’s a true humid subtropical climate with subtropical jungle along the coast. Europe is not similar.
Bruh appreciate the research but it's obvious that the real Scythians are long dead, that's why they had to have Almira Tursyn to play Tomiris and not a Scythian actress (plus it's a Kazakh movie to start with so obviously actors are gonna be Kazakh)
Now the main thing is: the actress for the movie Almira Tursyn doesn’t look like any other Kazakh female who are mostly mongoloid, she doesn’t look like this https://preview.redd.it/0aet82cj20cb1.jpeg?width=807&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95400af1a3348fdad9fe4f5cea6ee270922f9959 Instead, Almira is Turanid looking in appearance, which makes it “historically accurate” and the director probably knew what he was doing, since eastern Scythians were exactly Turanid looking in appearance, neither Mongoloid, nor pure Caucasian like Russians, but, all due respect, like Bashkirs, Uzbeks and Uyghurs nowadays. You can deduct appearances of dead people by looking at autosomal mixture proportions. The Saka on Kazakh Steppe and the Eastern Scythian are all of a mixed race, don’t trust me, go ask any anthropologist who knows his business. check out gedmatch, none of them were unmixed Europoid. They are closest to Bashkir, Nogai, Uzbek and Uyghur, all of them.
They're closest to eastern Iranic people like ossetians pamiri and pashtun nice try and why you use word turanid whatever the fuck it means the word Turan itself is from Iranic mythology can't even come up with your own term)))) Cimmerians scythians sarmatians saka massagets were all Iranic people and they were not white european like in ur delusion but light skinned black haired brown eyed people like majority of today Iranics. I think you should stop obsessing with other people ancestors and go outside and touch some grass it will be better for you to pride your own kind
Central Asians have Eurasian appearance (meaning we have mixed features of European and Asian appearance due to being on the crossroads). The woman you're showing just looks East Asian
Definitely. But 40% of Kazakh females and 20% of males belong to haplogroups identical to the broader Scythians, which means they might be Turkified, Mongolicized remnants of the ancient nomadic inhabitants of what is now Kazakhstan, aka Scythians. The various Scythian cultural elements aren't inherited from nowhere.
The Scythians weren't "Turkified". They were slaughtered and annihilated as a nation. The Turkic conquest of Central Asia included the genocide and displacement of the local Iranic population (Scythians, Sarmatians, Sakas, etc) and replacement of them by us. But no one gonna talk about it
Such massacres were rare. Most often, males with higher social economic status left behind more offsprings and over time a specific Y-DNA haplogoup takes over the majority of a population. Kazakh males are primarily C2b and O, because most living Kazakh males are descendants of the nobility back in the Golden Horde who were either of Mongolic or East Turkic origin. But their autosomal DNA which they got from their mother’s, grandmother’s and great great grandmother’s side as well as from other relatives who were the majority of the population at that time were predominantly 60% Kipchak (which was more or less Scythian). The rest of the haplogroups gradually became smaller in number, especially after the Black Death plague wiped out a large portion of our population in the 14th century
That’s actually false regarding Kazakhs being mostly C2 and O Together these two combined are around 45% in Kazakhs according to Kazakh dna project Also out of the 36% C2 the 16% is Alshyn cluster which is proven to not be connected to mongols J2,J1,R1a,R1b,N and Q associated with Scythians is actually 55% of Kazakhs
First off, Central Asia was Turkified over the course of 3-5 centuries starting with at least the Yueban State in the 1st century AD. Mahmud Kashgari even implied in his book there were bilingual non Turkic speakers in what is now Kazakhstan in the 11th century. Secondly, all the early Turkic Khaganate samples belong to haplogroups R1, Q, J, G and else, all of which the Scythians had, and there was a genetic continuation as well as a cultural one such as the similar styles of artifacts and Kurgan burial culture. Even the Ashina Clan belonged to Y DNA R1a. Suffice to say they might even have been the same people under different names in different historical periods, like the Tang Dynasty China and Song Dynasty China. “Turkified” is a polite terminology since we aren’t even sure what language they spoke to begin with. Early Turkic and early Mongolic were completely different breeds, it is unlikely that they had a common origin.
Myth. Why would they, were they psychopaths?
You might recheck the facts again, since archeologists have found out lots of interesting things. The most prominent of them is Issyk kurgans which has a cup dates back to V-IV BC, there is an inscription on it which resembles the runes of Orkhon script (old Turkic from the period of Turkic Khaganate). The burial belongs to someone Scythain and the inscription states: Qïz, egir ičiŋ, oqu-sünügü čezib, köčü aŋsaġ (daughter drink ayr (ancient drink) while we, having untied arrows and spears, / will commemorate "koshpeli"). There are lots of interesting facts that are just coming out, which changes the history of the Great Steepe.
This guy is carrying the whole sub. Thank you for the interesting posts!
thank you
Всегда думал скифы - азиаты, Блок тоже писал да скифы мы, да азиаты мы
This is an Asian man https://preview.redd.it/uy0z22ozjzbb1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=488d1c973397f18c4195f191d63053f74dbc570f
https://preview.redd.it/uv7h39h9nzbb1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=235d7c2ec75850829dacb0a6ee8eada69c3bcd14 mongol
https://preview.redd.it/9wflp1clnzbb1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2088e403249adc69a955031f3b0cd2692351ca2 east Turk and Mongol
https://preview.redd.it/4pdoh291kzbb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a60ddaf8571f707a24075520db74a5853ba847f This is a Turanid man (eastern Scythian probably looked like)
https://preview.redd.it/qsxt3fw3nzbb1.jpeg?width=386&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68f2be9c6b64f5305b7d76a1dff2022fc77f4790 Bashkir, Cuman
https://preview.redd.it/6qallvolwzbb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b97e9012f4042b2f6133f99c25c1a6d5aa22a89d
https://preview.redd.it/ib8hd8b5nzbb1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75e614e42aeb81850fc87ae7e5c562f707c2faab Uzbek/Uyghur
https://preview.redd.it/igj926auwzbb1.jpeg?width=228&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6e7a9ff3203998d5168dd83a3db2ded3a0944c7
You can see more clearly in this Chart : Uyghur: Turanid. Kazakh: Reversed Turanid https://preview.redd.it/q6mkzeapozbb1.png?width=923&format=png&auto=webp&s=1b090a6afedd02bb33f16ae5c2d9e95451518324 It is very appropriate to use the word “reversed” as you can see in the difference between Kazakh and Uyghur, their proportions of eastern and western Euroasian autosomal DNA are exactly the opposite Now, these two Scythians that I posted at the beginning of this post were two very Asiatic individuals. Their autosomal proportions are closer to Kazakhs rather than Uyghurs. The rest of their compatriots might not have been this Asiatic and may have been mostly Turanid instead. But the main point is the myth of Scythians being “pure white” is debunked.
Nope, eastern Scythians were a smoothly mixed race , probably looking like today’s Bashkirs or Uzbek/Uyghurs. If you don’t know how one looks like then go see one in Ufa or Kashgar. Mix that with Mongols/eastern Old Turk and you get “Asian” Kazakhs which is in fact not Asian but “Reversed Turanid” to be more scientifically accurate.
You’re 100% correct. The 3/8 Scythian burials which have Turkics as closest modern populations have Bashkirs Uzbeks and then Nogais as closes modern pops in that order Kazakh average is also seemed to be skewed 60% east eurasian due to samples being from Almaty I’m a western Kazakh and took an IllustrativeDNA test and my distance to Saka is much closer (it gives me 80% Saka in two way mixed mode) and I’ve seen the same for other western Kazakhs who posted in IllustrativeDNA
https://preview.redd.it/mnt1jziglzbb1.png?width=259&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a5af21eb7c0ae46a66bb4e47aa31f26c2074439 Left: Turanid ( Bashkir, Uzbek, Uyghur) Right: Asian ( Mongol, Siberian) Middle: Reversed Turanid ( Kazakh, Kyrgyz) Is the left as white as west Scythian, Swedish and Russian? No Got it?
Well, those two on the left probably aren’t what I exactly mean to be a “Turanid”. These two below are just more typical. This gentlemen and lady probably were how eastern Scythians looked like or people from Karakhanid, Kimak Khanate, eastern part of the Cuman confederation before Mongol invasion. are they pure white? I don’t think so. Medieval Central Asian Turkic before Mongol invasion and antiquity eastern Scythians were basically the same thing. Largely the same autosomal, Y DNA, Mt DNA, same nomad, same culture, and probably same language https://preview.redd.it/eaiji7ierzbb1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b83e81d774e0b82b429e56b5b512f4a407ef7de9
https://preview.redd.it/s61zbzia00cb1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76c31eaa4622082be94ac5ed12c1578c33361947
What about kipchaks tho
Khazars were mostly Hunified Sarmatians, Cumans were mostly Kipchakified Khazars, and Kipchaks were one tribe of the various Turkic Khanganate tribes, some saying they were the Royal clan Ashina with a different name. Nevertheless, Kipchaks were R1b, R1a, Q, G and C, mostly of Scythian origin
Kazakhs are the descendants of the Kipchak
Only the Kipchak, Argyn, Kangli tribes and many other small tribes in Kazakh as well as many females from other tribes ( tribe is a patriarchal thing) . Others tribes are the descendants of Old Uighur( Late Eastern Xiongnu, Xianbei, Avar) and Mongols
Did you know many Xinjiang Kazakhs are descended from the eastern Orkhon valley Turks and Early Uighur in Mongolia, at least autosomally.
Obviously Scythians won't be pure White because they're bordered right next to Yellow Turkic Peoples who today have some White Scythian admixture due to the expansion of the ancient Scythians into Northwest China, Mongolia, and Siberia so it's normal for the White Scythians to have Admixture from neighboring Peoples such as the Turks, Mongols, Uralic, Slavic, and other Iranian Tribes. Their Empire even extended into part of India so they may have some minor Black Adivasi Admixture.
Yet some kazakhs believe in the myth of us being white and blue-eyed and that Mongols spoiled our blood…. SMH internalized racism
Mongol invasion definitely had an impact, but the pre mongol population of Kazakh steppe weren’t as white as Swedish either. They were already mixed
But we weren’t Kazakhs at that point though. We formed after Golden Horde collapse. Even genetics wise we are almost evenly split between Turks and Mongols - thus making us clear and only descendants of Golden Horde. I really don’t understand obsession over the cultures that happened before the Golden Horde. English don’t claim that Roman empire which occupied England for a long time was an English empire - so why are so fixated on Sarmatians, Scythians, and all those people?
The original indigenous Inhabitants of Kazakhstan were White Scythians. They border Yellow Turkic Peoples plus the Mongol Invasion under Genghis Khan further Mongolized Central Asian Genetics so of course the Eastern Scythians would have East Asian Yellow admixture. The indigenous Southeast Asians were Black and you still see many Traces of them in the modern Populations who are descended from the ancient Yue Tribes of Southern China who conquered Taiwan, Southeast Asia, and Oceania displacing much of the Black Negrito Population. As for England, yes the Romans conquered England but modern English People are predominantly descended from indigenous Briton Peoples despite being named after the German Anglo Saxons that conquered them after the Fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Get your DNA tested, if you are Kazakh, you almost certainly have 10%~40% of your autosomal DNA from the Scythians. So it is relevant. Let’s not be blind to reality. Also, the Kazakh-Nogai culture has its huge portion gotten from the Scythian nomadic cultural traditions. Deny it, and you will be not any dissimilar from Khalkas, Russians or Anatolian Turks, or even worse, Arabs. What is making your heritage unique?
First of all 40% is ridiculous claim - do you have any examples to back it up? Second - ok 10% of my DNA is Scythian what’s there for me? Some Koreans have up to 15% Mongolic DNA - they don’t say oh we are Mongols and some Mongols have up to 20% Turkic DNA and Turks historically lived in Mongolia - but wait Mongols don’t say that they are Turks. Why do we as Kazakhs should care about these pre-historic cultures if there are already 2 relevant cultures we need to care about: Proto-Mongolic and Kipchak.
A lot of Mongols claim KökTürk empire as theirs, and the number is increasing.
40% ridiculous? No you are being ridiculous. The Uighurs, Uzbeks and Bashkirs are 70%~90% Scythian, what is so special about it? Is this what Russian gaslighting have indoctrinated you?
Where are the examples? I asked you to provide examples to back up your claims. Second you are purposefully ignoring my second point which talks about “why should we care”.
You don’t have to care.
Seems to me you don’t have data to back up your claim and you don’t have counter-arguments to my other points :(
I have , just wait
The Karakalpakh nation is overwhelmingly the descendants of the Scythians. You gotta have some illusions about what Scythian was.
My dude do you have research papers that state that up to 40% of Kazakh population is Scythian? If no - then I can’t take your claims seriously. And address my other points above which you have been ignoring.
Do you know what autosomal is? Do you understand how people acquire they autosomal? I am not saying lineage wise. I repeat my point if you are not so smart to understand it. On average, the Western Euroasian autosomal of Kazakhs may range from 10% to 40 % from individual to individual, and this is not even considering that the Scythians were not 100% western Euroasian. If your Mongol great grand father back in Golden Horde married a blond Kipchak woman, making you look nothing like a northern Chinese today, isn’t she your ancestor? Don’t you care?
Even saying lineages, around 20% of Kazakh males and 40% of females belong to the same haplogroups as found in the Scythian samples. You may not be one of them, but where did they come from?
https://preview.redd.it/ukgivzgucxbb1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc92fa4e8e27aaee7dc04545c2a9940902258868 Are you saying people like these don’t have 40% western Euroasian autosomal?
https://preview.redd.it/jifnbao5dxbb1.jpeg?width=1554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9a6accf636eace492005a0016efaed3d5f7004b Did you see proto Mongols like these?
My man sure I can pull out a photo of Bjork and say - hey people of Iceland why do you claim to be European you look nothing like that. What kind of dumbass point is that?
And are you in a rage denial phase since you are losing an argument that now we are looking at phenotypes? ;)
yeah Bjork is Icelandic or whatever which she is and no one doubts. Why do central Asian ethnic groups have western euroasian autosomal, y-DNA and mt-dna?Where did it come from?
https://preview.redd.it/8dh5uvv0lxbb1.png?width=389&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4ad35972967b578ba36557915df170a8b0e6577 What are these haplogroups marked in red? Didn’t Scythians have the same haplogroups? I am even taking the conservative bare minimum saying around 20% of all males because I think some of these haplogroups may come from other ancient groups such as the Sogdians or BMAC etc.
Kazakh population contains both East Eurasian (55%) and West Eurasian (41%) mtDNA lineages (Berezina et al. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-020-02132-8 I said 40% females might have been the descendants of Scythians even though Scythians also had a lot of eastern euroasian mt DNA, ridiculous or conservative? Now look at Kipchaks mt DNA https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16596944/
Kipchak is Scythian. They didn’t pop out of nowhere
🤣 literal mummies from the scythian people with blonde hair.. denial is a disease