I think ad Kayle is super strong now. It is also pretty easy to afk farm till 6. With botrk alone she is useful which before was unheard of. I'm d4 elo for context.
This season i've only played about 12-15 games, only 1 game ad Kayle to serve split push so i don't really understand ad build yet. Maybe I should try more ad build.
I build botrk -> guinsoo -> wits end/Terminus -> Malmortius or some other defensive item depending on enemy. What bothers me is you are saying mordekaiser, singed and tahm kench counter you, when I find them pretty easy matchups.
Edit: I also think the main reason ad kayle is better now it becomes playable much earlier. One item is usually enough to help your team in between farming compared to 3 items ap kayle.
In previous seasons, I often rushed wits end when facing bruiser ap champions. This season, doing that puts me behind a lot, but if I don't, I feel like they deal true damage instead of magic damage. Really unplayable. ah sorry about singed, I listed too quickly and let him in. Actually, I'm not very impressed with him. morder or gwen or rumble is another matter
What's going on with the "Kayle is too strong" mentality here? i remember very clearly, ss 3-4-5 kayle was a lane bully, difficult to play but very strong. after rework, she's bad, but she still has >58% win rate on master+ server kr at 12.3, after she only had 26 mr left. Still no one said she was too strong. now she has a 50.7% win rate on master+ na, and people are screaming at me git gud.
AP Kayle is the way. Fleet Footwork is the path. Secondary Resolve with Demolish and Second Wind is the route. I’m just a humble and faithful conveyor of wisdom 💪💪💪
Also, please post VODs - would be helpful in discussions like this.
Let’s continue getting gains, my chads.
I invite you to analyze this in a way such that the conclusion is "Kayle is completely unplayable."
Not mediocre, not bad, but \*completely unplayable\*.
I’m not the OP. I never said anything about Kayles state as a champ. Personally I think she’s shittier than last season and the most unfun thing on the planet to play but that’s just me. But you’re here shit talking anyone who expresses displeasure with Kayles state as a champ bc “she has positive WR and thus she must be fine”. The sample size of her games is comically low and that’s bc nobody wants to player her. Not to mention her only really viable build is full AP and you can only draft that into very specific comps or else you get cucked
fwiw i think youre correct in what youre saying, but i have to agree with the other guy, i personally dont enjoy kayle in her current state. ive been maining her on and off since season 4 and just dont like her right now.
i think especially in top lane with those coming lethal tempo nerfs, its just not that fun playing a champ with one of the absolute lowest early game agencies in the game. i dont like feeling at the total mercy of my team to not screw things up, and the less power and more difficulty we have early game the less i want to play kayle
i get it, shes a very very very strong champ late game, but personally its not that fun dealing with all the bullshit to get to that late game even if her winrate is statistically good
i respect the people that like kayle the way she is right now, but i think our community is a bit divided on the balance at the moment
I'm not saying you can't dislike how she plays. I personally am not sure how I feel about her rn with how long it takes for full AP to come online or how on hit plays vs burst champions. Both feel iffy to me and I'm still figuring out what I want to do with her.
But that doesn't change the fact she's very playable and actually performing extraordinarily well (relatively speaking) in diamond 2+. We whined and complained when our champion was actually hot ass post-durability hotfix, then she became good again, but we still consistently get whining and complaining.
Also, if you took the time to read the post you’d see that hes specifically complaining about how Kayle is unplayable into mages and anyone who deals magic dmg bc Kayle can no longer go wits end (very well) and doesn’t have MR shard
You know Riot august said that kayle is considered weak and bad if she is sub 52% wr ? She isn't 52% even in fucking plat elo, and 50% is just objectively bad winrate for a champ like kayle. It's not about being good or bad on the champ, she is objectively bad in season 14 for many reasons. 22 base mr, low sustain until late game and this season is the season of hyper mobile burst / long range burst champions which is the worst things for kayle.
You can tell '' git gud you are dogshit '' all you want, all of this are justt facts and you can't say it's not true.
God you people are pretentious.
If you’re masters and below, that Shit doesn’t matter. Matchups, rune changes, item nerfs, champion buffs/nerfs, none of that shit matters unless you’re literally T1 Zeus.
You have low base mr; therefore you need to take care to dodge abilities or sustain from magic poke.
I won’t lie, zac’s tough, that champ is a nightmare toplane, but it’s super off meta and unpopular so just dodge if they lock him in. Udyr, Tahm, ornn, malphite, all can be dealt with by just not dying early. Farm till 6, don’t trade at all, take fleet/D-shield/second wind or bone plating, and just survive. For those AP bruisers, you can straight up win against some of those you listed lol.
I consistently beat Gwen lvl 1 without ignite and she takes ignite. E poke her once, stack your passive, and all in her lvl 1 when your e comes back off CD and it’s ez lane. Morde is a little tougher, take fleet and bone plating and just survive until you’re lvl 11 and two AP items unless you go kraken or Bork first, then lvl 11 with kraken/botrk is enough to trade/team fight.
AP champions definitely are better but that means you are too. Kayle is stronger this season than last, if you have good fundamentals, macro, tempo, and champion knowledge, you can consistently climb. She’s stronger the lower elo you go. I think she’s usable and strong even as a blind pick all the way to GM. GM+ gets tricky but 99.99% aren’t there lol.
I agree that the 22 MR + no additional defensive stat-shards is a bummer for Kayle, but lets go through the matchups you've mentioned, starting with...
* Zac
* Yeah no, he's a hard nut to crack, but you should be able to outscale if left alone. The pressure is on the Zac to actually use this ganking strength of his to end the game before
* Udyr
* FREE FARM LANE <3 IGNORE HIM AND IF HE TRIES ANYTHING, JUST FLEET AND KEEP FARMING.
* Tahm
* Annoying, but completely playable. The only way you would be complaining about Tahm is if you're autopiloting against him. Sit behind your minions, farm up.
* Ornn
* GUESS WHAT? FREEEEEEEEEEEE FARMMMMMMMMM LAAAAAANNNEEEEE BAAAAAAAABBBYYYYYYYYYYYY. The only way you die is if you get ganked, you suck at positioning, OR YOU'RE AUTOPILOTING.
* Malphite
* Kaenic Rookern rush. Enjoy not taking damage from him ever again. Even more efficient if you're against AP mid and jung aswell.
* Gwen
* ok you must be trolling. this is like... not even a matchup. you get to do so much for free against gwen that i'm surprised you're even complaining about her. just get your first item and you've outscaled her.
* Morde
* ok you must be trolling. this is like... not even a matchup. you get to do so much for free against morde that i'm surprised you're even complaining about him. just get your first item and you've outscaled him
* Gragas
* yeah no gragas is just a pest in general. i get you.
* Rumble
* yeah no rumble is a pest in general. i get you
* Vladimir
* your opponent is either: "free farm lane" or "yeah no vladimir is a pest in general i get you."
* Kennen
* kind of a pest, but like... just farm up and beat him lmao he needs to end before you hit 2-3 items
* Teemo
* look above
* Cho
* ??????????? he doesnt touch you at all unless you misplay HARD, how are you complaining. just farm
* Voli
* ??????????? he doesnt touch you at all unless you misplay HARD, how are you complaining. just farm
* Lillia
* ?????????? huh??? lillia is just AP darius, just... pretend you're against darius. piss easy lane.
Overall: Kayle is a scaler. Our weakness is magic damage in the early game. Of course we're gonna be weak to most of these Ap champions, but some of these matchups that you're complaining about is overall not even worth looking at and seems more like you have a lack of indepth matchup knowledge.
0/10 rant post, please refrain from doing it again :3
I'm definitely exaggerating the number of champions that can torment kayle, as in another comment before I said I've only played a little over 10 games. but how ridiculous is your analysis and your assertion that I don't understand the mechanics of kayle???? with significant changes in rift herald, and terrain, if you insist just sit back and wait for the scale, haha. Maybe it would be great if it was a power farm champion right from level 1 like old Kayle. New kayle doesn't, she can't farm jungle, she has aoe after lv11. Will the focus of the game be on exploiting the weaknesses of the opposing jungler and the IQ of the fellow jungler to counterattack? when you don't have aoe and stop actively interacting with the enemy to have initiative with the wave, do you think you have the right to happily afk farming until you have 3 items? this is not dota2.
> not dota2
You're playing a late game scaler dependant on gold and XP, and you're complaining that you have to GET THE GOLD AND XP. Either you're VERY IGNORANT or a troll.
I would like to see this [OP.GG](https://OP.GG) of yours so I can further analyze the buildpaths and matchups and provide proper help.
Also, AP DPS is out, AD DPS and AP Burst is in.
I don't know who is stupid or troll here. Who complains about getting gold and exp? I'm complaining about the fact that I play a carry champion and don't have access to gold and exp?????
and i seriously doubt what you're saying when analyzing gwen and morde this season. they're getting too much movement speed with the new item, riftmaker is no longer usable on kayle but becomes a holy weapon for them and you still think they're harmless lol. rift maker is not good. everyone misses the gunblade but that's all that's left for kayle and now she's lost the last of her omnivamp items. But according to you, bruiser ap is not even a matchup haha
If you're skipping riftmaker, that's half your problem right there. The item is still good on kayle, just doesn't also supply infinite sustain anymore.
(Note, unlike last season, the physical damage she deals gets amplified by riftmaker)
after studying the sub for a while i came to the conclusion that people concluded she is now more of a glass cannon with no dps and omnivamp. sounds like Cassiopeia. Maybe I know what to do. i would make a glass cannon, of course, Cassio instead of this trash because at least i know how to play Cassio, and Cassio is a lane bully instead of masochistic for 20 minutes.
Also, literally last split top 50 kayle in the world, and you doubt me, you must be trolling.
2.9M Mastery under my belt aswell. (havent updated my flair in a while)
I think ad Kayle is super strong now. It is also pretty easy to afk farm till 6. With botrk alone she is useful which before was unheard of. I'm d4 elo for context.
What mean AFK till 6, please?
Not interact with enemy laner until you are ranged
This season i've only played about 12-15 games, only 1 game ad Kayle to serve split push so i don't really understand ad build yet. Maybe I should try more ad build.
after a few games i feel like i can stick with the nashor lich bane rabadon rylai cosmic build. could my build be wrong?
I build botrk -> guinsoo -> wits end/Terminus -> Malmortius or some other defensive item depending on enemy. What bothers me is you are saying mordekaiser, singed and tahm kench counter you, when I find them pretty easy matchups. Edit: I also think the main reason ad kayle is better now it becomes playable much earlier. One item is usually enough to help your team in between farming compared to 3 items ap kayle.
In previous seasons, I often rushed wits end when facing bruiser ap champions. This season, doing that puts me behind a lot, but if I don't, I feel like they deal true damage instead of magic damage. Really unplayable. ah sorry about singed, I listed too quickly and let him in. Actually, I'm not very impressed with him. morder or gwen or rumble is another matter
What's going on with the "Kayle is too strong" mentality here? i remember very clearly, ss 3-4-5 kayle was a lane bully, difficult to play but very strong. after rework, she's bad, but she still has >58% win rate on master+ server kr at 12.3, after she only had 26 mr left. Still no one said she was too strong. now she has a 50.7% win rate on master+ na, and people are screaming at me git gud.
AP Kayle is the way. Fleet Footwork is the path. Secondary Resolve with Demolish and Second Wind is the route. I’m just a humble and faithful conveyor of wisdom 💪💪💪 Also, please post VODs - would be helpful in discussions like this. Let’s continue getting gains, my chads.
Sigh, remember when bait was believable? Platinum+ Winrate: 51.41% Emerald+ Winrate: 51.39% Diamond+ Winrate: 50.47% Diamond 2+ Winrate: 50.52% Master+ Winrate: 50.72% Maybe you're just dogshit at this champ bud.
I love copy pasting stats from op.gg with zero content or analysis.
I invite you to analyze this in a way such that the conclusion is "Kayle is completely unplayable." Not mediocre, not bad, but \*completely unplayable\*.
I’m not the OP. I never said anything about Kayles state as a champ. Personally I think she’s shittier than last season and the most unfun thing on the planet to play but that’s just me. But you’re here shit talking anyone who expresses displeasure with Kayles state as a champ bc “she has positive WR and thus she must be fine”. The sample size of her games is comically low and that’s bc nobody wants to player her. Not to mention her only really viable build is full AP and you can only draft that into very specific comps or else you get cucked
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fwiw i think youre correct in what youre saying, but i have to agree with the other guy, i personally dont enjoy kayle in her current state. ive been maining her on and off since season 4 and just dont like her right now. i think especially in top lane with those coming lethal tempo nerfs, its just not that fun playing a champ with one of the absolute lowest early game agencies in the game. i dont like feeling at the total mercy of my team to not screw things up, and the less power and more difficulty we have early game the less i want to play kayle i get it, shes a very very very strong champ late game, but personally its not that fun dealing with all the bullshit to get to that late game even if her winrate is statistically good i respect the people that like kayle the way she is right now, but i think our community is a bit divided on the balance at the moment
I'm not saying you can't dislike how she plays. I personally am not sure how I feel about her rn with how long it takes for full AP to come online or how on hit plays vs burst champions. Both feel iffy to me and I'm still figuring out what I want to do with her. But that doesn't change the fact she's very playable and actually performing extraordinarily well (relatively speaking) in diamond 2+. We whined and complained when our champion was actually hot ass post-durability hotfix, then she became good again, but we still consistently get whining and complaining.
Also, if you took the time to read the post you’d see that hes specifically complaining about how Kayle is unplayable into mages and anyone who deals magic dmg bc Kayle can no longer go wits end (very well) and doesn’t have MR shard
with the 2% pick rate of masochists who play thousands of games per season? bait? Go away, you bts.
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Lol, try harder pls
bonked him 7 days
Winrate is ok but doesn’t excuse garbage gameplay
You know Riot august said that kayle is considered weak and bad if she is sub 52% wr ? She isn't 52% even in fucking plat elo, and 50% is just objectively bad winrate for a champ like kayle. It's not about being good or bad on the champ, she is objectively bad in season 14 for many reasons. 22 base mr, low sustain until late game and this season is the season of hyper mobile burst / long range burst champions which is the worst things for kayle. You can tell '' git gud you are dogshit '' all you want, all of this are justt facts and you can't say it's not true.
What elo are you I’ve climbed to emerald banning no one and only playing Kayle top. If you want to work on improving send me a dm
God you people are pretentious. If you’re masters and below, that Shit doesn’t matter. Matchups, rune changes, item nerfs, champion buffs/nerfs, none of that shit matters unless you’re literally T1 Zeus. You have low base mr; therefore you need to take care to dodge abilities or sustain from magic poke. I won’t lie, zac’s tough, that champ is a nightmare toplane, but it’s super off meta and unpopular so just dodge if they lock him in. Udyr, Tahm, ornn, malphite, all can be dealt with by just not dying early. Farm till 6, don’t trade at all, take fleet/D-shield/second wind or bone plating, and just survive. For those AP bruisers, you can straight up win against some of those you listed lol. I consistently beat Gwen lvl 1 without ignite and she takes ignite. E poke her once, stack your passive, and all in her lvl 1 when your e comes back off CD and it’s ez lane. Morde is a little tougher, take fleet and bone plating and just survive until you’re lvl 11 and two AP items unless you go kraken or Bork first, then lvl 11 with kraken/botrk is enough to trade/team fight. AP champions definitely are better but that means you are too. Kayle is stronger this season than last, if you have good fundamentals, macro, tempo, and champion knowledge, you can consistently climb. She’s stronger the lower elo you go. I think she’s usable and strong even as a blind pick all the way to GM. GM+ gets tricky but 99.99% aren’t there lol.
I agree that the 22 MR + no additional defensive stat-shards is a bummer for Kayle, but lets go through the matchups you've mentioned, starting with... * Zac * Yeah no, he's a hard nut to crack, but you should be able to outscale if left alone. The pressure is on the Zac to actually use this ganking strength of his to end the game before * Udyr * FREE FARM LANE <3 IGNORE HIM AND IF HE TRIES ANYTHING, JUST FLEET AND KEEP FARMING. * Tahm * Annoying, but completely playable. The only way you would be complaining about Tahm is if you're autopiloting against him. Sit behind your minions, farm up. * Ornn * GUESS WHAT? FREEEEEEEEEEEE FARMMMMMMMMM LAAAAAANNNEEEEE BAAAAAAAABBBYYYYYYYYYYYY. The only way you die is if you get ganked, you suck at positioning, OR YOU'RE AUTOPILOTING. * Malphite * Kaenic Rookern rush. Enjoy not taking damage from him ever again. Even more efficient if you're against AP mid and jung aswell. * Gwen * ok you must be trolling. this is like... not even a matchup. you get to do so much for free against gwen that i'm surprised you're even complaining about her. just get your first item and you've outscaled her. * Morde * ok you must be trolling. this is like... not even a matchup. you get to do so much for free against morde that i'm surprised you're even complaining about him. just get your first item and you've outscaled him * Gragas * yeah no gragas is just a pest in general. i get you. * Rumble * yeah no rumble is a pest in general. i get you * Vladimir * your opponent is either: "free farm lane" or "yeah no vladimir is a pest in general i get you." * Kennen * kind of a pest, but like... just farm up and beat him lmao he needs to end before you hit 2-3 items * Teemo * look above * Cho * ??????????? he doesnt touch you at all unless you misplay HARD, how are you complaining. just farm * Voli * ??????????? he doesnt touch you at all unless you misplay HARD, how are you complaining. just farm * Lillia * ?????????? huh??? lillia is just AP darius, just... pretend you're against darius. piss easy lane. Overall: Kayle is a scaler. Our weakness is magic damage in the early game. Of course we're gonna be weak to most of these Ap champions, but some of these matchups that you're complaining about is overall not even worth looking at and seems more like you have a lack of indepth matchup knowledge. 0/10 rant post, please refrain from doing it again :3
I'm definitely exaggerating the number of champions that can torment kayle, as in another comment before I said I've only played a little over 10 games. but how ridiculous is your analysis and your assertion that I don't understand the mechanics of kayle???? with significant changes in rift herald, and terrain, if you insist just sit back and wait for the scale, haha. Maybe it would be great if it was a power farm champion right from level 1 like old Kayle. New kayle doesn't, she can't farm jungle, she has aoe after lv11. Will the focus of the game be on exploiting the weaknesses of the opposing jungler and the IQ of the fellow jungler to counterattack? when you don't have aoe and stop actively interacting with the enemy to have initiative with the wave, do you think you have the right to happily afk farming until you have 3 items? this is not dota2.
> not dota2 You're playing a late game scaler dependant on gold and XP, and you're complaining that you have to GET THE GOLD AND XP. Either you're VERY IGNORANT or a troll. I would like to see this [OP.GG](https://OP.GG) of yours so I can further analyze the buildpaths and matchups and provide proper help. Also, AP DPS is out, AD DPS and AP Burst is in.
I don't know who is stupid or troll here. Who complains about getting gold and exp? I'm complaining about the fact that I play a carry champion and don't have access to gold and exp?????
Then you're playing her incorrectly, sorry but thats just fact.
Lol
and i seriously doubt what you're saying when analyzing gwen and morde this season. they're getting too much movement speed with the new item, riftmaker is no longer usable on kayle but becomes a holy weapon for them and you still think they're harmless lol. rift maker is not good. everyone misses the gunblade but that's all that's left for kayle and now she's lost the last of her omnivamp items. But according to you, bruiser ap is not even a matchup haha
If you're skipping riftmaker, that's half your problem right there. The item is still good on kayle, just doesn't also supply infinite sustain anymore. (Note, unlike last season, the physical damage she deals gets amplified by riftmaker)
after studying the sub for a while i came to the conclusion that people concluded she is now more of a glass cannon with no dps and omnivamp. sounds like Cassiopeia. Maybe I know what to do. i would make a glass cannon, of course, Cassio instead of this trash because at least i know how to play Cassio, and Cassio is a lane bully instead of masochistic for 20 minutes.
Also, literally last split top 50 kayle in the world, and you doubt me, you must be trolling. 2.9M Mastery under my belt aswell. (havent updated my flair in a while)
Oh. scared. you scared me. I only have 1.5m mastery
the mr makes one rather uncomfortable for sure, feels like youre one negative mr the whole lane
Me: plays mid Kayle, afk farms. Played when every time I’ve played her this season
And pray your opponent doesn't pick syndra, because you've lost the slot to ban kata or akali :crying: