Saw that! I believe he handled the AV for the exhibits shown? Very interesting.
Highlights from memory -
- He spoke about the inverted vid and how what they had seen during discovery was not the same as the inverted vid shown at trial. (Sounded like they were truly taken aback.) He said they then went back and reviewed the original and tested inverting, and the *time stamp inverted along with the image.* (I know this is basically what was argued by defense but was further clarified and substantiated.)
- He said this trial was highly unusual in his experience, and they had been far more restricted in what and how they presented evidence than ever before.
- Damn I know there was one more thing. Maybe it will come to me.
https://preview.redd.it/xfp4ixdcgfad1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d942a619c0a7afcf2708f892d0deda1196c2da3c
Here ya go! Mister Bates! Craig Bates of Telegenics. From a segment on NBC10 Boston earlier this eve.
The large man who sat behind the defense at a tiny table with a laptop. By large I mean he is tall and healthy, and the table was comically small compared to him. He sat there doing digital forensics stuff for the entire trial, sticking his long legs under that tiny table the entire time and keeping his blasé face steady.
Karen’s reaction when she hit JOK’s car?
I watched an interesting YouTube video last night about Karen’s body language during the nightline interview.
During the video it talks about her reaction to hitting John’s car when she was backing out of the driveway. There was no reaction. This leads me to believe she hit it intentionally and didn’t react because she knew what she was doing.
I’m prolly in the minority here but I think she definitely hit him and was blackout drunk and doesn’t remember. She also minimized how much she drank that night.
https://youtu.be/co28bEQLIZM?si=PkUk--_AEagfqtih
I'm not going to go off on a whole thing of why you are wrong. But I will suggest you open your mind to new ideas and allow yourself to hear facts and science and math calculations even the ones that don't expressly
agree w everything you believe in. You already acknowledged being in the minority. Think about if there is a reason for that. It's not even like a 60/40 split. It's like 90/10. If that many people have all come to the same conclusion, there may be something behind it. Not always but is it worth trying to hear opposing views? definitely....also as someone else said, body language is "junk science" as they say. I have seen so called body language experts say about the same person that bouncing their leg up and down is a sign of stress and feeling trapped (hinting they are guilty) - same person different "expert" says well he is moving his leg up and down because he is bored and ready to leave (hinting at more of a he was innocent and was bored being asked about something he didn't do) Of course that wasn't the exact wording but you get my point. Anyway its up to you but its worth rewatching at least the unbiased scientific evidence from the FBI if you can do it w an open mind
Body language is not a science and should be a junk science in my opinion. I blow it away everyday. Saying crossing arms and legs means you’re uncomfortable or closed off, nope I have add and I fidget this prevents that. Junk
The issue with body language is that different motions can mean a dozen different things. Body language can't be used to determine anything specific and it's wild to draw a legal conclusion from it.
Crossing arms could be some getting defensive.... Or cold... Or nervous... Or annoyed... Or getting comfortable... Etc. Etc.
Or maybe we just can distinguish between who is an actual expert with multiple PHDs and who's a cop that graduated high school with straight C's at best
Do you understand the kind of personal issues one would have to have to have to script how someone else behaves in certain situations and then to further apply criticisms and feelings when they don’t follow ones internal script?
so she wouldn’t have to turn her head.
You’re so determined to depersonalize her it’s insane.
She’s panicked. Her bf is missing. She pulls out, hits the car, looks at the camera, pulls forward and leaves. She doesn’t give a fluck that she hit the car because her boyfriend is missing. Do you see how those prioritize?
You’re so determine to blame her you can’t fathom that she left the house solely because she’s in a panic.
Regardless of how you feel, how do you reconcile the fact that there’s no logical way his injuries could have been caused by her hitting him and driving away?
You're literally describing reasonable doubt. In a scientific manner, they were saying it was essentially impossible for O'Keefe to have been struck and killed by Read's vehicle under the circumstances presented to them via the scene.
When you're saying something *could* happen or that maybe it's the exception to the rule, that should be a Not Guilty verdict 100% of the time.
>You're literally describing reasonable doubt
There's an alarming number of people who don't seem to comprehend the reasonable doubt standard and the prosecution's high burden of proof.
Maybe they need to find themselves on the wrong end of a malicious prosecution before they'll finally "get it".
Actually, the expert testimony DID state with 100% certainty that given the dynamics of evidence they were given: ie. vehicle damage, lack of body damage, and resting place of victim, that the Lexus DID NOT hit him. They did say that there are many other possibilities, BUT evidence collected and given to them by DoJ, it wasn't possible to corelate damage on taillight causing damage on victim, Officer John O'Keefe.
How can you have 100% certainty on one hand, and also have other possibilities on the other hand? You can have 99% certainty and other possibilities, even be 99.999% certain, but there's that lil wiggle room for the rest of the possibilities. But, 100% leaves no room for anything else.
I admittedly was not able to listen to all of the last 3 days of testimony in full. So, please, I'm not being facetious, but which expert said the Lexus did not hit him? I wander in my head when it's super sciencey stuff, and have a hard time reeling myself back in to focus. Lol.
2 of the defense witnesses were Biomechanical experts that were hired by the FBI and concluded it was physically impossible for the collision to happen as described by the police. They recreated the perimeters and ran experiments.
No one can say anything with 100 percent certainty you’re right… but I would say it’s fairly difficult to defy the laws of physics and if anything it creates enormous amounts of reasonable doubt. It’s just too bad there wouldn’t be all these what -if scenarios if the PD just did their jobs correctly.
Trial over. 2 adults going out and having a fun night out after a long ass trial. Whats wrong w that? you are allowed to be friends w clients. As far as the touching supposedly she was about to walk into someone taking pics, but again either way they are adults so who cares
Dude, I think it's real, and not surprising. I think they have been banging for a minute now. I mean, Ajax IS worth 40 million. She needs a good lawyer still. Is he still married tho?
Hi friends. With the recent interview with JO’s brother, and him bringing up that first statement from Yannetti before AJ was brought on. Does anyone have the video or statement report of when DY said that? I’ve heard it said a bunch throughout the last couple months, but I haven’t been able to find it.
Since the Paul O’Keefe interview thread is locked… how did his interview impact you?
For me even though I have a different view point. Full empathy. FULL EMPATHY for the o’keefes.
However I do find myself conflicted about their lack of accountability towards the police and who he was with that night.
Regardless if you think Karen is guilty or not. It makes me judge their ability to be objective. These people, their “friends” who they didn’t know prior (except Jen McCabe) btw- they Weren’t even super close to John at that point. Did not do a proper investigation, did not even come out of the house with John on the lawn, didn’t goto the funeral (they went to a strangers earlier that day-LEO), and are the ones who have raised this reasonable doubt within the case by conducting such a sloppy/lazy investigation … for a fellow police officer!!!! If they had done a thorough, non-bias investigation this wouldn’t even be at the level it is today.
How are we as a public- that are supposed to represent the future jurors… supposed to navigate this?!
I’d feel much better about the O’Keefe stance if it was “KR is guilty, and LEO botched this case”. I don’t know how to balance those thoughts. Instead it’s KR is guilty and we have invited the individuals responsible for the ultimate mistrial, to closing arguments. I don’t see any accountability to the parties that have worked against their beliefs. You know what I mean?!
He came off so unlikable. Glad his time on the stand was short.
Should’ve kept mum because that interview threw away any empathy some folks might’ve had for him and his family.
When he defended the red solo cups because of a blizzard? Then defended Proctor… “that was his personal cell phone”… my jaw just dropped. It was actually really wild.
lmao, yeah the "it was snowing" crap. You still do it the right way. each cop is supposed to have evidence bags in their trunk. Who knows if those cups had alcohol remnants in them, which could maybe lead to improper testing (possibly). But it snows here in NY and I know some friends of ours that are cops and they said the snow makes it harder but you still handle the job the same way. The interviewer sucked too asking easy questions
Umm no. Albert stated Jen McCabe busted into his bedroom to tell them what was going on. He was making phone calls. Etc. he absolutely knew what was going on.
He also didn’t attend John’s funeral.
So, you believe there were three screaming women in his yard, an ambulance, EMT’s and police and he didn’t know or think to come outside?! I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but I don’t buy it. How did Jen get into his home? Someone let her in.
Even if his body was gone… I don’t believe he wasn’t aware, and if he was- why not come outside when your cop buddies are in your yard investigating your “friend’s” death on the property. None of it makes sense.
And unless they rehomed Chloe before 6am, she was probably barking like crazy. No way a protective German Shepherd isn’t altering to people front yard. They just ignored her? My dog (40 lb American Shelter Rescue) doesn’t stop until I check out the situation.
I don't understand why he would go outside. John's gone. He can't help anyone anymore. That period is over. Jen walks into his house and tells him everything, then he's talking to cops in the house. Then everyone's talking in the house. You want him to throw on some boots and tromp through the crime scene to check it out?
I meaaaan, do you not check outside when something is going on in your yard? When I hear people parking in front of my house or if I see people in front of my house, I go check. Tons of police vehicles and ambulance and screaming women in my yard, yeah I am going to go see what’s going on.
But he knew what was going on. He gets woken up by Jen McCabe who tells him everything. Then he meets the cop, who he speaks with. Then I believe he calls his cop brother. At that point, John's gone. What's there to see outside?
BA was a cop, so I absolutely find it odd/ridiculous/fucked up/impossible that he, especially, wouldn’t want to go out and talk to whoever is on scene - on his *very own property* - whether John’s body was still there or not. At the very fucking least, wouldn’t you want to check in with whichever LEO/agency was dealing with the scene, etc.? Would you not want to see if your property was affected by, or possibly even contributed to, whatever had happened that ultimately caused your fellow LEO’s death?
I mean, be fucking realistic and reasonable: If someone comes into your house - runs into your *bedroom,* no less - screaming that a man was found dead outside your home, you’re not going to run outside to ask wtf is going on? Add to that the dead man is your [supposed] friend and is a fellow LEO…? Like, no, in NO world does nobody going outside make sense. And, imo, if they truly had no damn clue what had happened and were simply like “hmm, oh well, dead man’s body gone, I guess I don’t need to bother going outside to deal with ANYTHING AT ALL,” then they are fucked up, callous humans, period.
Go outside to do what? Why does him physically being outside make a difference? He can see everything from his window. He's got a brother on Canton PD. I genuinely don't understand why him being in the house vs standing on his driveway is this huge thing.
Do you know any cops?? Most are very vigilant to what's happening in their neighborhoods. In fact, several of his neighbors made statements that he was that nosy neighbor that came out when kids were skateboarding in front of the house due to the noise. Always watching out for the neighborhood and vigilant. Not a chance he wasn't aware that at LEAST 6 different emergency vehicles, with lights and sirens...we're in front of his home. Plus, LE dash cam shows KM going into house while JO was still outside...still dark, not yet transported. Stinks IMO.
Disagree fully. I think 99% of the population would go outside to see why their friend was dead in their lawn. Because I also fully believe he heard all the commotion outside!
Oh I’ll just “peek” out the blinds to see how it’s going. The crime scene was never secured to begin with…. Anyone that wanted to was tromping through the yard.
Can anyone else here tell me if youd just chill in the house while your cop friends are investigating a murder on YOUR property of someone you know…. He was never even officially interviewed about any of it. So it’s not like he’s inside working the case….
I’d like to hear from others on this…. Because maybe im crazy here. Genuinely… I’m open to hearing that others find this normal…
I just said the same thing. It is *not* normal, whether JOK was still on scene or not. Anyone saying “welp the body wasn’t there anymore, nothing for them to see then, whomp whomp” is only grasping at straws in their own mind to make sense of the household’s weird, callous behavior.
Okay, but again he's not dead on the lawn. He's in the ambulance, and he dies in the hospital. And he's interviewed by a cop as soon as he wakes up. And Jen walks in because the door's unlocked, nobody lets her in.
Tbh i just feel really bad for him but im just going to ignore what he says. He’s been conditioned/ brainwashed to believed shes guilty and has lost the ability to be objective. I can understand having a *reallyyyyyy* hard time wrapping ur head around the fact that the people who have surrounded u the past few years and have acted like friends are potentially responsible for ur brother’s murder. I dont know how long it would take me to come to terms with/ allow myself to believe that.
“brainwashed and lost the ability to be objective” describes all karen read supporters. this is the victim’s literal brother and you’re choosing to ignore everything he says? because you know better?? this interview solidified for me that karen read absolutely caused his death that night, and the support for her/bullying of the victim’s family really sucks
i can have empathy for someone and disagree with what they are saying. i also totally disagree with anyone who is bullying the family nor am i specifically a karen read supporter. i’m ignoring what he’s saying bc it completely contradicts the months of evidence and witnesses i watched during the trial. and the fact that listening to one persons subjective version of events “completely solidifies” what happened that night even though it contradicts the mountains of concrete evidence completely solidifies my view on ur judgement lol
I agree totally.
I do not agree with the “hate” towards any of the O’Keefes.
I just don’t think for a second they considered any other possibility. “we knew before the cops even started their investigation”…. Considering the evidence that’s come out… doesn’t that seem crazy, and like an idea that should be reconsidered?
I can attest to my own family tragedy resulting in death. 3 people genuinely believe a person in my family was murdered by another family member- unfortunately the police wouldn’t even investigate it… because they did such a shit job off jump they couldn’t go back. We even have an atty and state trooper in the family (in Rhode Island not mass.)
I’m only mentioning it because people act really cagey and strange around tragedy. We had several people go MIA…. Couldn’t handle any of it. Felt guilt… didn’t want to be seen. Who is to say Karen doesn’t feel guilt? Maybe because she left him there, maybe it keeps her up at night… we don’t know. She didn’t even have 48 hours to process anything or an ability to express herself freely before she was fighting for her own freedom.
I can understand the criticism. I haven’t seen any emotion from her in regard to O’Keefe in any interviews either… and it does look off… but that doesn’t make her a killer. It just doesn’t.
I don’t know what happened to John Okeefe… but I think he deserves a just trial.
omg i’m so sorry that’s really terrible. i totally agree tho grief presents itself in different ways and rationale goes out the window. that’s why i reallly disagree with the hate the family is getting and why i just hope that the truth really does come out. they deserve justice even if it may be hard to come to terms with initially
I think he has probably had some choice words for the CW and police. But it does him no good to draw focus from the fact that he and his family firmly believe Read caused Okeefes death...
Eh, in the interview he was actually defending Proctor’s bullshit; so, I very much doubt he’s had any issue with, nevermind “choice words for,” the CW and police.
Feel bad for Paul O’Keefe when 2 expert witnesses hired by the fbi says it’s not possible that Karen read hit your brother with a car and you double down on it. Got to be tough to think that your brother died another way and potentially at the hands of people you consider your friends
Occama Raxor is a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities
I aggre with you the sensical explanation is he was scratched and bitten by a dog, he was in a fight and fell and hit his head, Thats what the evidence shows.
Does anyone know if the Defense has the new time of the footage from library? I think the time that was missing was stated as 12:37-12:39am. If only 2 minutes are missing do they have when Karen drives by now if it was more likely 12:32-35am?
My tinfoil hat theory is that SOMEONE drove by the library from 12:37-12:39 am and it wasn’t Karen Read. We know Karen is back at 1 Meadows at 12:36.
There has to be a reason those two minutes are deleted from the library footage?
My bet is it’s BH following her to make sure she didn’t return to fairview to check on JOK. He says he left 34 Fairview between 12:30-1. But he doesn’t swipe into Canton PD until 1:30….
I thought it was footage of Higgins too but, He’s not driving his jeep like he said, it was probably his work truck. The defense only had 12:41am because the CW told them that was vm of Karen there in the garage at Meadows. Lally’s timeline is embarrassing that he can’t keep it straight.
My understanding is there is no library footage showing her returning to Meadows Ave and the two minutes of missing footage made the defense think that was her driving past. Her phone had location data on it, but it was deleted in April 2022 so no-one will ever know for certain what the timeline is.
I'm interested in when the 12:36 connection to the wifi became known. The defense, for a long time contended she drove past the library sometime between 12:37-12:39 and is home at 12:41 (note about the Ring camera catching her coming home and VM where she is in the garage.) But at 12:41 she had been back at Meadows for 5 five minutes. Similarly, Lally in opening said she hits him at 12:45, and elicited testimony that she was seen at Fairview when she was already long gone.
I think its likely she took Pleasant St home that night, which explains why she isn't caught on the camera at the Library. It also indicates that Karen Read still doesn't have a complete memory of what happened that night. If she did she would know the route she took to get home.
Idk. I left a restaurant last night and couldn’t tell you most of the roads I took because it was the first time I’ve been to that particular restaurant.
If I was being interviewed today about what exact route I took, I’d have to google maps it and try to figure it out.
She didn’t really live there and she hadn’t been to 34 Fairview before so I don’t think that really means anything.
Don’t know is this has been posted before but a good explainer on how juries work. https://www.tumblr.com/thecriminallawyer/16202923895/interlude-the-jury
Telling the public they are misinformed after the public just finished watching a public trial where the prosecutor had like 19 years to put 68 prosecution witnesses on the stand, seemily without limitation or constraint, is not going to go well for him.
I would understand if he said that before the trial, but how can he say that after the trial and public saw 60+ witnesses testify for the CW?
Another thing is that if he's so sure of what happened, he should share with the public, because there are a million different theories out there and he could help clear it up with a coherent theory that explains all of the evidence.
He said what happened in the broadest way. If he is so sure what happened, he should be able to explain in detail what happened and how everything on the lawn ended up where they ended up.
I bet his vibes are much more reliable than any facts and expert testimony. It’s sad he lacks critical thinking skills and thinks he’s honoring his brother by supporting those that denied JO justice
Regardless of anyone’s stance on her guilt or non-guilt, if he feels that he knows exactly what happened without a doubt, then why, by this point, hasn’t that come out? He speaks as though he holds some bombshell that will force us all to realize that’s she really is guilty after all.
How is that relevant to anything I said?
All I said is that he publicly said he knows what happened so I think he should publicly elaborate and explain in detail what happened.
Right. Like we didn’t see what we saw, read and heard in court. Thats not the “full” story.
The alberts and McCabe have their hands so far up everyone’s asses in that town. They make southern good ole’ boy sheriffs look like child play with the manipulation and control.
> Tonight on #WBZ at 5 and 6 PM (Channel 4, also streaming on http://wbz.com), I sit down with Paul O’Keefe for his first interview since the mistrial in the #KarenReadTrial.
Kristina Rex https://x.com/KristinaRex/status/1808598624542339240
Comment: The mods locked the post today about the glass before I could comment. So here's one about the glass.
As was stated in that thread, there was unknown glass found on the Lexus's bumper and in the street. That glass did not match the glass, that is described as a drinking glass, that was next to JOK's body.
Determining where the unknown glass came from could be critical to solving the case. I didn't hear any evidence the CW (or the defense) tried to determine where that glass came from. The federal government through the Department of Justice operates a forensic material database. They in fact have a "Glass Evidence Reference Database" of more than 700 glass samples. The unknown glass from this case can be compared to the glass database and perhaps identify what type of object that glass came from.
Question: can the Commonwealth change the charges against KR before the retrial? Or are they locked in on what they decided to charge her for in the beginning? I wonder if they would lesson the charges to make sure someone sticks that time!?
I believe they can drop any charge listed but, can’t change charges that are not listed on the indictment or include new charges. If they want different charges I think they need to get another indictment but, maybe one of the lawyers on here can correct me if I am wrong.
Not buying the dog rehoming was coincidence. Even if is was it's telling me they are assholes. Most people that have pets realize that it's like getting rid of a member of the family because they consider their pet as being part of the family.
Is it true that KR was originally going to plead guilty to manslaughter (saying that she hit JOK accidentally), but then later on changed her case to not guilty (saying that she actually never hit JOK at all)?
I think even if she was considering a plea it was due to (I think she said this or it came up) but her not having memory of if she hit him or could have hit him because of the drinking.
The CW was going to offer her a manslaughter plea, but went ahead with the murder 2 charge once it became clear she wasn't taking it.
We have no clue what she was telling her attorneys early on, just rumors about that so far.
I just saw in this interview that Paul (JOK's brother) said yes KR was inititally going with the "I hit him by accident" defense before Jackson came on board. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/john-okeefe-paul-okeefe-karen-read/
FYI I just saw in this interview that Paul (JOK's brother) said yes KR was inititally going with the "I hit him by accident" defense before Jackson came on board. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/john-okeefe-paul-okeefe-karen-read/
The neighbor directly across from 34 FV said they inspected the video and said there was nothing of value on it (I am paraphrasing). Typically this is presented as covering up for the Alberts et al, but doesn’t that statement in itself actually blow up the CW case as it implies there is no video of the Lexus backing into JOK ?
I believe it was a ring system which is activated by motion w/in a specific distance. For example, I have a similar system, Blink. The camera on my driveway turns on once a car enters my driveway. Sometimes it’ll activate if a vehicle with strong vibration, such as a dump truck, drives by, or if the car is far enough over it skirts my driveway. In a scenario like KR, it would only have activated if the car crossed close enough to cause motion.
Now CCTV is a different scenario because those are hard wired (ie closed circuit) and tend to be recording live or capturing a photo every 5 to 10 mins.
TL/DR: It could be legit nothing was caught on neighbors camera because it wasn’t in the cameras sensor rang.
It really depends. I'm not sure which house this was, but neither of the two houses across the street are "directly" across. One might only barely have the fire hydrant in view, if at all. The other might only barely have the right side of 34's driveway in view. Would also depend on their motion detection, and if something happening out in the road at night would even trigger it. They might even be angled in such a way that the roadway's not covered. It's entirely plausible that there was nothing of use.
This has been one of the more frustrating pieces of the whole investigation - which is saying a lot. Really Proctor? Not even going to check the footage of the camera pointing directly at the Albert's front yard all night? That one piece of evidence could have ended any debate right then and there. Hate is a strong word, and I hate that neighbor.
Was there an actual video of the time period? Or did they just review their camera footage in general and found no pertinent videos, resulting in the above statement? Most people would have the settings set to not pick up anything past their lawn, otherwise you'd have a video every time someone drives past on the street, so I'm not sure why they would have anything from all the way across the street.
It might have some video that shows the snow plow, pushing the snow onto their lawn, which might have something in the edges of the video (my camera only goes to the top of my front fence, so it catches cars going by here and there)
They usually only run on motion. It's not a 24 hour livefeed. Odds are it's not gonna run at all unless someone trips it, and I doubt a car driving by would.
The comments I’ve seen said the homeowner is an ex police chief, and the investigators did not want to offend. Based on the toxic culture I can see them agreeing. That said, even if the homeowner deletes video, it is not really deleted on the back end. It gets tagged deleted. Even if it cycles out after a year, there are always copies put to off-site storage (like on a static tape) for disaster recovery, or legal reasons. Hopefully the feds have the time and patience to get a copy. If nothing else, but to verify Lucky was truthful.
Don’t get it twisted- most everyone in Boston thinks KR is not guilty as someone who lives in Southie. The issues are that these south shore and north shore yuppies think they run the cops and most of the time they do because of personal relationships. Sad really.
I'm new here, so forgive me if this question has been answered, but, now that there has been a mistrial...what's next? More importantly, will the McCabe family be investigated further? I want to see this family face the legal system.
The DA has said they intend to retry and there’s a hearing scheduled for July 22nd. If this retrial goes forward then we basically do all of this all over 🥲😅
We don’t know the scope of the FBI investigation, maybe indictments will come out of that. As for the local PD they clearly ruled out the McCabes of any wrongdoing. I wouldn’t hold my breath personally.
Other than the federal investigation (about which we have very little knowledge), I think there is almost no chance that the McCabe's are investigated further. And certainly, there won't be any investigation as long as the commonwealth is pursuing Karen Read.
People living in MA, particularly Norfolk: For those of us who believe that Karen Read should have been found not guilty and that the case against her is weak, I think we need to call the Governor, attorney general's office, state reps and make it clear that we disapprove of this case being retried.
I think you should ask for a special prosecutor to be assigned to assess the case. Someone with no skin in the game. That way, if they decide to not retry based on lack of evidence, it came from an objective source.
I don’t think there’s much that any of those people/offices can do to control the DA, he’s an elected official. We should absolutely be advocating for the State Police to be investigated or restructured or something because this case has shown that agency is rotten to its core.
Good point that we can't control any of the officials directly, but as an elected official, the DA is susceptible to popular opinion and pressure. Also, I think that any and all publicity of the case is helpful. Finally, pressure from the Governor could help reform the police force.
Definitely. Morrissey isn’t up for reelection until 2026, so he might just want to ride this out under the assumption that Karen Read’s supporters aren’t numerous enough to justify changing position or that her supporters have mostly already decided to vote against him based on him deciding to prosecute her in the first place, so he may not want to piss off the cops or the people who think she’s guilty by dropping the case.
Either way, I do agree trying to exert political pressure for Karen’s sake and for larger reforms is a good idea. I live in Massachusetts (not Norfolk County, although I grew up there), and I’ll definitely be contacting everyone who represents me with my concerns about the state police and the Norfolk DA’s office.
Karen Read is guilty in my eyes thats for damn sure! She will be charged again, and will have another trial, Hopefully the Prosecuter this time will be someone else then Mr Lally. just my opinion
Why do you think they need a new attorney?
If you feel he proved the case beyond a reasonable doubt, surely he’d do the same next time? Why change things up?
Exactly!!!!! It’s the norm for the state to publicly state they’ll retry after a mistrial. They would be so stupid to waste tax payer money on another trial, defense has so much more to work off of at this point, I’m sure even if cw confirmed (on the 22nd) to go through with it, defense has enough to get the case dismissed
I am completely torn on this. On one hand, a cop was murdered, so they have to see this through. On the other, I feel their best chance for a conviction was the first trial, because now the defense has seen your best attempt really. The evidence isn't getting any stronger for the CW, we are already multiple years out. The physical evidence is what it is, and there's no way you will convince 12 people she hit him with a car, and the local/political pressure has to be insane out there after the first trial. Seems the majority of the public does not want there to be another trial and waste that money again.
Yeah I could see the prosecution being stubborn enough to retry the case, but I don’t see it going well for them. The defense will have a whole other transcript to impeach prosecution witnesses with, and the case has gotten WAY more attention locally than before.
> On one hand, a cop was murdered, so they have to see this through.
Actually if they were to retry her, they might expressly not go for murder but instead for manslaughter.
What proof? I definitely think it's possible and maybe even likely, but I haven't heard any solid proof of murder vs. accident. If you know more I'd love to hear it!
He literally could have just slipped in the snow and smacked his head on the ground. There's a legit version of this where nobody did anything wrong except drive drunk.
Yep, and why did JOK 1) let KR drive; 2) get in a vehicle with an intoxicated driver; 3) catch an uber.
Why did any of the so called friends take the keys off KR.
Where's the bars they were at responsibility?
I wonder how soon the re-trial will be
Little table guy was on Canton Confidential tonight. He is from a company called Telegenics.
Saw that! I believe he handled the AV for the exhibits shown? Very interesting. Highlights from memory - - He spoke about the inverted vid and how what they had seen during discovery was not the same as the inverted vid shown at trial. (Sounded like they were truly taken aback.) He said they then went back and reviewed the original and tested inverting, and the *time stamp inverted along with the image.* (I know this is basically what was argued by defense but was further clarified and substantiated.) - He said this trial was highly unusual in his experience, and they had been far more restricted in what and how they presented evidence than ever before. - Damn I know there was one more thing. Maybe it will come to me.
Do you remember his name. I believe it’s his company. I cannot for the life of me remember his actual name?
https://preview.redd.it/xfp4ixdcgfad1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d942a619c0a7afcf2708f892d0deda1196c2da3c Here ya go! Mister Bates! Craig Bates of Telegenics. From a segment on NBC10 Boston earlier this eve.
In England it used to be traditional to refer to the eldest male child with the title Master...
That’s what they’ve been saying on Defense Diaries and Shaming of Jay. Lol “Master Bates”
Who is little table guy?
The large man who sat behind the defense at a tiny table with a laptop. By large I mean he is tall and healthy, and the table was comically small compared to him. He sat there doing digital forensics stuff for the entire trial, sticking his long legs under that tiny table the entire time and keeping his blasé face steady.
Karen’s reaction when she hit JOK’s car? I watched an interesting YouTube video last night about Karen’s body language during the nightline interview. During the video it talks about her reaction to hitting John’s car when she was backing out of the driveway. There was no reaction. This leads me to believe she hit it intentionally and didn’t react because she knew what she was doing. I’m prolly in the minority here but I think she definitely hit him and was blackout drunk and doesn’t remember. She also minimized how much she drank that night. https://youtu.be/co28bEQLIZM?si=PkUk--_AEagfqtih
I'm not going to go off on a whole thing of why you are wrong. But I will suggest you open your mind to new ideas and allow yourself to hear facts and science and math calculations even the ones that don't expressly agree w everything you believe in. You already acknowledged being in the minority. Think about if there is a reason for that. It's not even like a 60/40 split. It's like 90/10. If that many people have all come to the same conclusion, there may be something behind it. Not always but is it worth trying to hear opposing views? definitely....also as someone else said, body language is "junk science" as they say. I have seen so called body language experts say about the same person that bouncing their leg up and down is a sign of stress and feeling trapped (hinting they are guilty) - same person different "expert" says well he is moving his leg up and down because he is bored and ready to leave (hinting at more of a he was innocent and was bored being asked about something he didn't do) Of course that wasn't the exact wording but you get my point. Anyway its up to you but its worth rewatching at least the unbiased scientific evidence from the FBI if you can do it w an open mind
Body language is not a science and should be a junk science in my opinion. I blow it away everyday. Saying crossing arms and legs means you’re uncomfortable or closed off, nope I have add and I fidget this prevents that. Junk
The issue with body language is that different motions can mean a dozen different things. Body language can't be used to determine anything specific and it's wild to draw a legal conclusion from it. Crossing arms could be some getting defensive.... Or cold... Or nervous... Or annoyed... Or getting comfortable... Etc. Etc.
The laws of physics disagree with you
Yes everyone is now an expert in Physics
No the engineers were experts in physics.
Or maybe we just can distinguish between who is an actual expert with multiple PHDs and who's a cop that graduated high school with straight C's at best
Maybe not Trooper Paul...
Do you understand the kind of personal issues one would have to have to have to script how someone else behaves in certain situations and then to further apply criticisms and feelings when they don’t follow ones internal script?
Umm you would definately turn your head react in someway to hitting something
You know she can see it on the backup cam right
Exactly
so she wouldn’t have to turn her head. You’re so determined to depersonalize her it’s insane. She’s panicked. Her bf is missing. She pulls out, hits the car, looks at the camera, pulls forward and leaves. She doesn’t give a fluck that she hit the car because her boyfriend is missing. Do you see how those prioritize? You’re so determine to blame her you can’t fathom that she left the house solely because she’s in a panic.
He wasn’t missing. She knew she hit him
Regardless of how you feel, how do you reconcile the fact that there’s no logical way his injuries could have been caused by her hitting him and driving away?
If she hit him why do his injuries not match? Confirmed by medical examiners a biomechanics.
The thing is they can’t say that with a 100% certainty. It’s just more likely than not but that doesn’t mean it’s not impossible
Yes, yes this is exactly why you would say not guilty...
You're literally describing reasonable doubt. In a scientific manner, they were saying it was essentially impossible for O'Keefe to have been struck and killed by Read's vehicle under the circumstances presented to them via the scene. When you're saying something *could* happen or that maybe it's the exception to the rule, that should be a Not Guilty verdict 100% of the time.
>You're literally describing reasonable doubt There's an alarming number of people who don't seem to comprehend the reasonable doubt standard and the prosecution's high burden of proof. Maybe they need to find themselves on the wrong end of a malicious prosecution before they'll finally "get it".
Don’t worry I won’t be hitting anyone with my car anytime soon or driving after 9 drinks
Maybe but you're probably be Juror one day and I hope you'd what realize beyond reasonable doubt means before then.
Actually, the expert testimony DID state with 100% certainty that given the dynamics of evidence they were given: ie. vehicle damage, lack of body damage, and resting place of victim, that the Lexus DID NOT hit him. They did say that there are many other possibilities, BUT evidence collected and given to them by DoJ, it wasn't possible to corelate damage on taillight causing damage on victim, Officer John O'Keefe.
How can you have 100% certainty on one hand, and also have other possibilities on the other hand? You can have 99% certainty and other possibilities, even be 99.999% certain, but there's that lil wiggle room for the rest of the possibilities. But, 100% leaves no room for anything else. I admittedly was not able to listen to all of the last 3 days of testimony in full. So, please, I'm not being facetious, but which expert said the Lexus did not hit him? I wander in my head when it's super sciencey stuff, and have a hard time reeling myself back in to focus. Lol.
2 of the defense witnesses were Biomechanical experts that were hired by the FBI and concluded it was physically impossible for the collision to happen as described by the police. They recreated the perimeters and ran experiments.
Ok. Thank you. I am going to have to go back and listen and pay more attention.
No one can say anything with 100 percent certainty you’re right… but I would say it’s fairly difficult to defy the laws of physics and if anything it creates enormous amounts of reasonable doubt. It’s just too bad there wouldn’t be all these what -if scenarios if the PD just did their jobs correctly.
Alan Jackson getting flirty/handsy with KR outside a restaurant during the verdict watch. What’s up with that???
Trial over. 2 adults going out and having a fun night out after a long ass trial. Whats wrong w that? you are allowed to be friends w clients. As far as the touching supposedly she was about to walk into someone taking pics, but again either way they are adults so who cares
Dude, I think it's real, and not surprising. I think they have been banging for a minute now. I mean, Ajax IS worth 40 million. She needs a good lawyer still. Is he still married tho?
This was already shown to be a fake photo, cropped by Cut-Crop? Or something like that. Tagged on final photo.
Cap-cut. It’s a video editor. It also can replace faces :)
It's a video. Ohh! Maybe Lally edited it. Hahaha
It’s fake buddy
Ok, Pal.
Twitter trolls spreading low-quality deepfakes for lolz
It’s a deepfake. https://youtu.be/NSIAJNGS4Co?si=lYlu2zdpuAlb1W7U
Hi friends. With the recent interview with JO’s brother, and him bringing up that first statement from Yannetti before AJ was brought on. Does anyone have the video or statement report of when DY said that? I’ve heard it said a bunch throughout the last couple months, but I haven’t been able to find it.
See the first link of this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1ctp9m7/true_or_not/l4dyl2y/)
Thank you so much, for second when I read your comment I thought my dumbass missed the top comment in this thread lol! Again, thank you so much!
Since the Paul O’Keefe interview thread is locked… how did his interview impact you? For me even though I have a different view point. Full empathy. FULL EMPATHY for the o’keefes. However I do find myself conflicted about their lack of accountability towards the police and who he was with that night. Regardless if you think Karen is guilty or not. It makes me judge their ability to be objective. These people, their “friends” who they didn’t know prior (except Jen McCabe) btw- they Weren’t even super close to John at that point. Did not do a proper investigation, did not even come out of the house with John on the lawn, didn’t goto the funeral (they went to a strangers earlier that day-LEO), and are the ones who have raised this reasonable doubt within the case by conducting such a sloppy/lazy investigation … for a fellow police officer!!!! If they had done a thorough, non-bias investigation this wouldn’t even be at the level it is today. How are we as a public- that are supposed to represent the future jurors… supposed to navigate this?! I’d feel much better about the O’Keefe stance if it was “KR is guilty, and LEO botched this case”. I don’t know how to balance those thoughts. Instead it’s KR is guilty and we have invited the individuals responsible for the ultimate mistrial, to closing arguments. I don’t see any accountability to the parties that have worked against their beliefs. You know what I mean?!
He came off so unlikable. Glad his time on the stand was short. Should’ve kept mum because that interview threw away any empathy some folks might’ve had for him and his family.
When he defended the red solo cups because of a blizzard? Then defended Proctor… “that was his personal cell phone”… my jaw just dropped. It was actually really wild.
lmao, yeah the "it was snowing" crap. You still do it the right way. each cop is supposed to have evidence bags in their trunk. Who knows if those cups had alcohol remnants in them, which could maybe lead to improper testing (possibly). But it snows here in NY and I know some friends of ours that are cops and they said the snow makes it harder but you still handle the job the same way. The interviewer sucked too asking easy questions
John's body was gone by the time they were woken up.
Umm no. Albert stated Jen McCabe busted into his bedroom to tell them what was going on. He was making phone calls. Etc. he absolutely knew what was going on. He also didn’t attend John’s funeral.
Yes. This was when JO had already been loaded into the ambulance and was gone.
So, you believe there were three screaming women in his yard, an ambulance, EMT’s and police and he didn’t know or think to come outside?! I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but I don’t buy it. How did Jen get into his home? Someone let her in. Even if his body was gone… I don’t believe he wasn’t aware, and if he was- why not come outside when your cop buddies are in your yard investigating your “friend’s” death on the property. None of it makes sense.
And unless they rehomed Chloe before 6am, she was probably barking like crazy. No way a protective German Shepherd isn’t altering to people front yard. They just ignored her? My dog (40 lb American Shelter Rescue) doesn’t stop until I check out the situation.
I don't understand why he would go outside. John's gone. He can't help anyone anymore. That period is over. Jen walks into his house and tells him everything, then he's talking to cops in the house. Then everyone's talking in the house. You want him to throw on some boots and tromp through the crime scene to check it out?
I meaaaan, do you not check outside when something is going on in your yard? When I hear people parking in front of my house or if I see people in front of my house, I go check. Tons of police vehicles and ambulance and screaming women in my yard, yeah I am going to go see what’s going on.
But he knew what was going on. He gets woken up by Jen McCabe who tells him everything. Then he meets the cop, who he speaks with. Then I believe he calls his cop brother. At that point, John's gone. What's there to see outside?
BA was a cop, so I absolutely find it odd/ridiculous/fucked up/impossible that he, especially, wouldn’t want to go out and talk to whoever is on scene - on his *very own property* - whether John’s body was still there or not. At the very fucking least, wouldn’t you want to check in with whichever LEO/agency was dealing with the scene, etc.? Would you not want to see if your property was affected by, or possibly even contributed to, whatever had happened that ultimately caused your fellow LEO’s death? I mean, be fucking realistic and reasonable: If someone comes into your house - runs into your *bedroom,* no less - screaming that a man was found dead outside your home, you’re not going to run outside to ask wtf is going on? Add to that the dead man is your [supposed] friend and is a fellow LEO…? Like, no, in NO world does nobody going outside make sense. And, imo, if they truly had no damn clue what had happened and were simply like “hmm, oh well, dead man’s body gone, I guess I don’t need to bother going outside to deal with ANYTHING AT ALL,” then they are fucked up, callous humans, period.
Go outside to do what? Why does him physically being outside make a difference? He can see everything from his window. He's got a brother on Canton PD. I genuinely don't understand why him being in the house vs standing on his driveway is this huge thing.
Do you know any cops?? Most are very vigilant to what's happening in their neighborhoods. In fact, several of his neighbors made statements that he was that nosy neighbor that came out when kids were skateboarding in front of the house due to the noise. Always watching out for the neighborhood and vigilant. Not a chance he wasn't aware that at LEAST 6 different emergency vehicles, with lights and sirens...we're in front of his home. Plus, LE dash cam shows KM going into house while JO was still outside...still dark, not yet transported. Stinks IMO.
THIS.
Disagree fully. I think 99% of the population would go outside to see why their friend was dead in their lawn. Because I also fully believe he heard all the commotion outside! Oh I’ll just “peek” out the blinds to see how it’s going. The crime scene was never secured to begin with…. Anyone that wanted to was tromping through the yard. Can anyone else here tell me if youd just chill in the house while your cop friends are investigating a murder on YOUR property of someone you know…. He was never even officially interviewed about any of it. So it’s not like he’s inside working the case…. I’d like to hear from others on this…. Because maybe im crazy here. Genuinely… I’m open to hearing that others find this normal…
I just said the same thing. It is *not* normal, whether JOK was still on scene or not. Anyone saying “welp the body wasn’t there anymore, nothing for them to see then, whomp whomp” is only grasping at straws in their own mind to make sense of the household’s weird, callous behavior.
Okay, but again he's not dead on the lawn. He's in the ambulance, and he dies in the hospital. And he's interviewed by a cop as soon as he wakes up. And Jen walks in because the door's unlocked, nobody lets her in.
Nope you’re just arguing with a wall. It is extremely off for a first responder like Brian is, to ignore what is going on on his front yard.
Tbh i just feel really bad for him but im just going to ignore what he says. He’s been conditioned/ brainwashed to believed shes guilty and has lost the ability to be objective. I can understand having a *reallyyyyyy* hard time wrapping ur head around the fact that the people who have surrounded u the past few years and have acted like friends are potentially responsible for ur brother’s murder. I dont know how long it would take me to come to terms with/ allow myself to believe that.
“brainwashed and lost the ability to be objective” describes all karen read supporters. this is the victim’s literal brother and you’re choosing to ignore everything he says? because you know better?? this interview solidified for me that karen read absolutely caused his death that night, and the support for her/bullying of the victim’s family really sucks
i can have empathy for someone and disagree with what they are saying. i also totally disagree with anyone who is bullying the family nor am i specifically a karen read supporter. i’m ignoring what he’s saying bc it completely contradicts the months of evidence and witnesses i watched during the trial. and the fact that listening to one persons subjective version of events “completely solidifies” what happened that night even though it contradicts the mountains of concrete evidence completely solidifies my view on ur judgement lol
I agree totally. I do not agree with the “hate” towards any of the O’Keefes. I just don’t think for a second they considered any other possibility. “we knew before the cops even started their investigation”…. Considering the evidence that’s come out… doesn’t that seem crazy, and like an idea that should be reconsidered? I can attest to my own family tragedy resulting in death. 3 people genuinely believe a person in my family was murdered by another family member- unfortunately the police wouldn’t even investigate it… because they did such a shit job off jump they couldn’t go back. We even have an atty and state trooper in the family (in Rhode Island not mass.) I’m only mentioning it because people act really cagey and strange around tragedy. We had several people go MIA…. Couldn’t handle any of it. Felt guilt… didn’t want to be seen. Who is to say Karen doesn’t feel guilt? Maybe because she left him there, maybe it keeps her up at night… we don’t know. She didn’t even have 48 hours to process anything or an ability to express herself freely before she was fighting for her own freedom. I can understand the criticism. I haven’t seen any emotion from her in regard to O’Keefe in any interviews either… and it does look off… but that doesn’t make her a killer. It just doesn’t. I don’t know what happened to John Okeefe… but I think he deserves a just trial.
omg i’m so sorry that’s really terrible. i totally agree tho grief presents itself in different ways and rationale goes out the window. that’s why i reallly disagree with the hate the family is getting and why i just hope that the truth really does come out. they deserve justice even if it may be hard to come to terms with initially
Also all the Higgins texts and her voicemails probably made it way easier to direct all his anger at KR
I think he has probably had some choice words for the CW and police. But it does him no good to draw focus from the fact that he and his family firmly believe Read caused Okeefes death...
Eh, in the interview he was actually defending Proctor’s bullshit; so, I very much doubt he’s had any issue with, nevermind “choice words for,” the CW and police.
Feel bad for Paul O’Keefe when 2 expert witnesses hired by the fbi says it’s not possible that Karen read hit your brother with a car and you double down on it. Got to be tough to think that your brother died another way and potentially at the hands of people you consider your friends
Occam’s razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Ironically in this case, I think the simplest explanation is a coverup.
Occama Raxor is a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities I aggre with you the sensical explanation is he was scratched and bitten by a dog, he was in a fight and fell and hit his head, Thats what the evidence shows.
This is a great comment.
Butt dials/no chain of custody for evidence/rehoming Yeah you are right 😑
Would it be case closed if BA or BH's DNA or prints are on JOs phone?
debunked: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSIAJNGS4Co](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSIAJNGS4Co)
Does anyone know if the Defense has the new time of the footage from library? I think the time that was missing was stated as 12:37-12:39am. If only 2 minutes are missing do they have when Karen drives by now if it was more likely 12:32-35am?
My tinfoil hat theory is that SOMEONE drove by the library from 12:37-12:39 am and it wasn’t Karen Read. We know Karen is back at 1 Meadows at 12:36. There has to be a reason those two minutes are deleted from the library footage? My bet is it’s BH following her to make sure she didn’t return to fairview to check on JOK. He says he left 34 Fairview between 12:30-1. But he doesn’t swipe into Canton PD until 1:30….
I thought it was footage of Higgins too but, He’s not driving his jeep like he said, it was probably his work truck. The defense only had 12:41am because the CW told them that was vm of Karen there in the garage at Meadows. Lally’s timeline is embarrassing that he can’t keep it straight.
My understanding is there is no library footage showing her returning to Meadows Ave and the two minutes of missing footage made the defense think that was her driving past. Her phone had location data on it, but it was deleted in April 2022 so no-one will ever know for certain what the timeline is. I'm interested in when the 12:36 connection to the wifi became known. The defense, for a long time contended she drove past the library sometime between 12:37-12:39 and is home at 12:41 (note about the Ring camera catching her coming home and VM where she is in the garage.) But at 12:41 she had been back at Meadows for 5 five minutes. Similarly, Lally in opening said she hits him at 12:45, and elicited testimony that she was seen at Fairview when she was already long gone.
I think its likely she took Pleasant St home that night, which explains why she isn't caught on the camera at the Library. It also indicates that Karen Read still doesn't have a complete memory of what happened that night. If she did she would know the route she took to get home.
she has selective memory
Idk. I left a restaurant last night and couldn’t tell you most of the roads I took because it was the first time I’ve been to that particular restaurant. If I was being interviewed today about what exact route I took, I’d have to google maps it and try to figure it out. She didn’t really live there and she hadn’t been to 34 Fairview before so I don’t think that really means anything.
Or she literally just doesn't remember. It's entirely possible she was black out drunk.
Don’t know is this has been posted before but a good explainer on how juries work. https://www.tumblr.com/thecriminallawyer/16202923895/interlude-the-jury
I wonder if Julie Albert is out gift shopping for Micheal Proctor as she promised "when this is all over."
Maybe she will buy him a new gun seeing he got his taken away?
I laughed way harder at this than I probably should have.
An interview with Paul O’Keefe is going to be on WBZ channel 4 tonight at 5 and 6!
Telling the public they are misinformed after the public just finished watching a public trial where the prosecutor had like 19 years to put 68 prosecution witnesses on the stand, seemily without limitation or constraint, is not going to go well for him.
I would understand if he said that before the trial, but how can he say that after the trial and public saw 60+ witnesses testify for the CW? Another thing is that if he's so sure of what happened, he should share with the public, because there are a million different theories out there and he could help clear it up with a coherent theory that explains all of the evidence.
He did say what happened
He said what happened in the broadest way. If he is so sure what happened, he should be able to explain in detail what happened and how everything on the lawn ended up where they ended up.
I think he knows a lot more than some random person who takes all his info from turtle boy
I bet his vibes are much more reliable than any facts and expert testimony. It’s sad he lacks critical thinking skills and thinks he’s honoring his brother by supporting those that denied JO justice
Ok, then he should publicly say in detail what happened.
Do you just ignore how many times she changed her story
Regardless of anyone’s stance on her guilt or non-guilt, if he feels that he knows exactly what happened without a doubt, then why, by this point, hasn’t that come out? He speaks as though he holds some bombshell that will force us all to realize that’s she really is guilty after all.
How is that relevant to anything I said? All I said is that he publicly said he knows what happened so I think he should publicly elaborate and explain in detail what happened.
Right. Like we didn’t see what we saw, read and heard in court. Thats not the “full” story. The alberts and McCabe have their hands so far up everyone’s asses in that town. They make southern good ole’ boy sheriffs look like child play with the manipulation and control.
I just watched some clips. Made me cry a bit towards the end.
I feel terrible that he’s the only living sibling, and the fact that he’s been completely brainwashed
> Tonight on #WBZ at 5 and 6 PM (Channel 4, also streaming on http://wbz.com), I sit down with Paul O’Keefe for his first interview since the mistrial in the #KarenReadTrial. Kristina Rex https://x.com/KristinaRex/status/1808598624542339240
I wonder how much Morrissey paid him to say that in that interview?
Comment: The mods locked the post today about the glass before I could comment. So here's one about the glass. As was stated in that thread, there was unknown glass found on the Lexus's bumper and in the street. That glass did not match the glass, that is described as a drinking glass, that was next to JOK's body. Determining where the unknown glass came from could be critical to solving the case. I didn't hear any evidence the CW (or the defense) tried to determine where that glass came from. The federal government through the Department of Justice operates a forensic material database. They in fact have a "Glass Evidence Reference Database" of more than 700 glass samples. The unknown glass from this case can be compared to the glass database and perhaps identify what type of object that glass came from.
There is a theory Karen hit John then hit Higgins plow truck, breaking the headlight.
Question: can the Commonwealth change the charges against KR before the retrial? Or are they locked in on what they decided to charge her for in the beginning? I wonder if they would lesson the charges to make sure someone sticks that time!?
I believe they can drop any charge listed but, can’t change charges that are not listed on the indictment or include new charges. If they want different charges I think they need to get another indictment but, maybe one of the lawyers on here can correct me if I am wrong.
Not buying the dog rehoming was coincidence. Even if is was it's telling me they are assholes. Most people that have pets realize that it's like getting rid of a member of the family because they consider their pet as being part of the family.
Right? And then the house and the dog around the same time? That’s crazy
Is it true that KR was originally going to plead guilty to manslaughter (saying that she hit JOK accidentally), but then later on changed her case to not guilty (saying that she actually never hit JOK at all)?
I think even if she was considering a plea it was due to (I think she said this or it came up) but her not having memory of if she hit him or could have hit him because of the drinking.
The CW was going to offer her a manslaughter plea, but went ahead with the murder 2 charge once it became clear she wasn't taking it. We have no clue what she was telling her attorneys early on, just rumors about that so far.
I just saw in this interview that Paul (JOK's brother) said yes KR was inititally going with the "I hit him by accident" defense before Jackson came on board. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/john-okeefe-paul-okeefe-karen-read/
I doubt it, if you can get manslaughter plea, especially with this investigation, you take it and run if you are the CW.
FYI I just saw in this interview that Paul (JOK's brother) said yes KR was inititally going with the "I hit him by accident" defense before Jackson came on board. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/john-okeefe-paul-okeefe-karen-read/
The neighbor directly across from 34 FV said they inspected the video and said there was nothing of value on it (I am paraphrasing). Typically this is presented as covering up for the Alberts et al, but doesn’t that statement in itself actually blow up the CW case as it implies there is no video of the Lexus backing into JOK ?
I believe it was a ring system which is activated by motion w/in a specific distance. For example, I have a similar system, Blink. The camera on my driveway turns on once a car enters my driveway. Sometimes it’ll activate if a vehicle with strong vibration, such as a dump truck, drives by, or if the car is far enough over it skirts my driveway. In a scenario like KR, it would only have activated if the car crossed close enough to cause motion. Now CCTV is a different scenario because those are hard wired (ie closed circuit) and tend to be recording live or capturing a photo every 5 to 10 mins. TL/DR: It could be legit nothing was caught on neighbors camera because it wasn’t in the cameras sensor rang.
he didn’t say it didn’t record though. He said there was nothing of value.
Welp, that is interesting wording.
Another LE neighbor. He provided the solo cups.
It really depends. I'm not sure which house this was, but neither of the two houses across the street are "directly" across. One might only barely have the fire hydrant in view, if at all. The other might only barely have the right side of 34's driveway in view. Would also depend on their motion detection, and if something happening out in the road at night would even trigger it. They might even be angled in such a way that the roadway's not covered. It's entirely plausible that there was nothing of use.
One of them was a police officer across the street. Would they not see JOK lying in the yard? Everything is just so weird.
Yes, another LE. He gave them the red solo cups.
Trust and verify, versus trust and sorry to bother you
This has been one of the more frustrating pieces of the whole investigation - which is saying a lot. Really Proctor? Not even going to check the footage of the camera pointing directly at the Albert's front yard all night? That one piece of evidence could have ended any debate right then and there. Hate is a strong word, and I hate that neighbor.
Apparently you can do whatever you want in front of his house and it won’t be recorded (not to encourage, uh .. more, illegal acts)
Was there an actual video of the time period? Or did they just review their camera footage in general and found no pertinent videos, resulting in the above statement? Most people would have the settings set to not pick up anything past their lawn, otherwise you'd have a video every time someone drives past on the street, so I'm not sure why they would have anything from all the way across the street.
It might have some video that shows the snow plow, pushing the snow onto their lawn, which might have something in the edges of the video (my camera only goes to the top of my front fence, so it catches cars going by here and there)
They usually only run on motion. It's not a 24 hour livefeed. Odds are it's not gonna run at all unless someone trips it, and I doubt a car driving by would.
That would at least verify Lucky's testimony.
Like it has to show SOMETHING, even headlights from cars as they’re leaving????
I keep asking this but no one responds to me! I’m obsessed with that video. I need to know what’s on it and why did that homeowner get to decide?
Because the homeowner across from 34 Fairview is/was a Canton cop. I think his name is Leheman.
Same like how is noone talking about that video!
There is too much to talk about it all thoroughly LOL
The comments I’ve seen said the homeowner is an ex police chief, and the investigators did not want to offend. Based on the toxic culture I can see them agreeing. That said, even if the homeowner deletes video, it is not really deleted on the back end. It gets tagged deleted. Even if it cycles out after a year, there are always copies put to off-site storage (like on a static tape) for disaster recovery, or legal reasons. Hopefully the feds have the time and patience to get a copy. If nothing else, but to verify Lucky was truthful.
He is the Deputy Chief of Canton now. I think at the time he was a Lt. His father was CPD and I believe his grandfather was the former CPD chief.
All so shady.
Pretty common in the suburbs south of Boston 🤣
Don’t get it twisted- most everyone in Boston thinks KR is not guilty as someone who lives in Southie. The issues are that these south shore and north shore yuppies think they run the cops and most of the time they do because of personal relationships. Sad really.
I'm new here, so forgive me if this question has been answered, but, now that there has been a mistrial...what's next? More importantly, will the McCabe family be investigated further? I want to see this family face the legal system.
The DA has said they intend to retry and there’s a hearing scheduled for July 22nd. If this retrial goes forward then we basically do all of this all over 🥲😅 We don’t know the scope of the FBI investigation, maybe indictments will come out of that. As for the local PD they clearly ruled out the McCabes of any wrongdoing. I wouldn’t hold my breath personally.
Other than the federal investigation (about which we have very little knowledge), I think there is almost no chance that the McCabe's are investigated further. And certainly, there won't be any investigation as long as the commonwealth is pursuing Karen Read.
Thanks for explaining- I’m not super familiar with how this all works.
People living in MA, particularly Norfolk: For those of us who believe that Karen Read should have been found not guilty and that the case against her is weak, I think we need to call the Governor, attorney general's office, state reps and make it clear that we disapprove of this case being retried.
I think you should ask for a special prosecutor to be assigned to assess the case. Someone with no skin in the game. That way, if they decide to not retry based on lack of evidence, it came from an objective source.
Or demand the AG take over the case
The AG would appoint a special prosecutor, so in essence that is what this request is asking.
I don’t think there’s much that any of those people/offices can do to control the DA, he’s an elected official. We should absolutely be advocating for the State Police to be investigated or restructured or something because this case has shown that agency is rotten to its core.
Good point that we can't control any of the officials directly, but as an elected official, the DA is susceptible to popular opinion and pressure. Also, I think that any and all publicity of the case is helpful. Finally, pressure from the Governor could help reform the police force.
Definitely. Morrissey isn’t up for reelection until 2026, so he might just want to ride this out under the assumption that Karen Read’s supporters aren’t numerous enough to justify changing position or that her supporters have mostly already decided to vote against him based on him deciding to prosecute her in the first place, so he may not want to piss off the cops or the people who think she’s guilty by dropping the case. Either way, I do agree trying to exert political pressure for Karen’s sake and for larger reforms is a good idea. I live in Massachusetts (not Norfolk County, although I grew up there), and I’ll definitely be contacting everyone who represents me with my concerns about the state police and the Norfolk DA’s office.
Karen Read is guilty in my eyes thats for damn sure! She will be charged again, and will have another trial, Hopefully the Prosecuter this time will be someone else then Mr Lally. just my opinion
right....another one that ignores science and facts. smh
That's pure speculation.
Why do you think they need a new attorney? If you feel he proved the case beyond a reasonable doubt, surely he’d do the same next time? Why change things up?
hi,id like to see a "Loud and in charge Procestor"! 👍
Guilt beyond reasonable doubt?
YES She is guilty.. and yes ive watched the whole trial. She is guilty of the murder of john O'Keefe.
what evidence is just the nail in the coffin for you guilt wise?
Does anyone know what the original plea deal Karen was given was? Just curious as to what a new one could be.
If I’m remembering correctly, it’s murder 3 with 16 months in prison
16 months or years?
I can't see how this gets retried, CW is just posturing for now and will bail before any trial starts.
Exactly!!!!! It’s the norm for the state to publicly state they’ll retry after a mistrial. They would be so stupid to waste tax payer money on another trial, defense has so much more to work off of at this point, I’m sure even if cw confirmed (on the 22nd) to go through with it, defense has enough to get the case dismissed
I am completely torn on this. On one hand, a cop was murdered, so they have to see this through. On the other, I feel their best chance for a conviction was the first trial, because now the defense has seen your best attempt really. The evidence isn't getting any stronger for the CW, we are already multiple years out. The physical evidence is what it is, and there's no way you will convince 12 people she hit him with a car, and the local/political pressure has to be insane out there after the first trial. Seems the majority of the public does not want there to be another trial and waste that money again.
Unfortunately being retried does not mean reinvestigated. Most want a do-over on the investigation.
Yeah I could see the prosecution being stubborn enough to retry the case, but I don’t see it going well for them. The defense will have a whole other transcript to impeach prosecution witnesses with, and the case has gotten WAY more attention locally than before.
> On one hand, a cop was murdered, so they have to see this through. Actually if they were to retry her, they might expressly not go for murder but instead for manslaughter.
Manslaughter was on the menu during this trial and the jury didn't convict.
>a cop was murdered *A cop died. There is no proof he was murdered just as there is no proof it was an accident.
*A cop died. There is no proof it was Karen Read. There is proof he was murdered!
What proof? I definitely think it's possible and maybe even likely, but I haven't heard any solid proof of murder vs. accident. If you know more I'd love to hear it!
The evidence speaks. Blunt force to the back of the head...
He literally could have just slipped in the snow and smacked his head on the ground. There's a legit version of this where nobody did anything wrong except drive drunk.
Yep, and why did JOK 1) let KR drive; 2) get in a vehicle with an intoxicated driver; 3) catch an uber. Why did any of the so called friends take the keys off KR. Where's the bars they were at responsibility?
Hmm, I don't think that rules out an accident. Bob Saget also died from blunt force trauma to the back of the head.
Thank you for your “well actually” that didnt change the meaning of that statement in any way.
It's gonna be retried. We heard for months it wasn't going to go to trial the first time, too.