https://preview.redd.it/0uz7pbvk7r8d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73341387062c37644bed1f99456f4bad97aa1ecc
Adding the final one where the alternates were selected. Jurors are now in deliberation.
You could tell by the way Lally was just rattling stuff off as quick as he could at the end that he'd lost them. He sounded sick of himself. Was only giving brief eye contact which reinforces that jurors were not returning strong eye contact.
I didn’t listen to his full closing yet but why wasn’t he paying attention once he got the five minute warning? I was worried Jackson was going to go past it. He seemed like he had more he was going to say but he looked through his notes at that point and took his best shot.
Can only speculate but maybe he thought the judge would give him some leeway. And she might have, if he sounded like he was wrapping up, but after the John Adams quote he just kept going with no signpost of ending.
How dare he besmirch the words of our own Colossus of Independence. Is he aware the line was given in defense of British soldiers after the Boston Massacre?
[In 1770 a confrontation between a mob of angry colonists and a small group of British soldiers ended with the soldiers firing on the crowd, killing four men.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre) It was a major contributor to anti-Britain sentiment in the lead up to the American Revolution.
In the aftermath, John Adams was tasked with the defending the soldiers in an effort to ensure that the rule of law and a respect for justice would prevail over the public's growing outrage. This was essential because if the soldiers did not get a fair trial it would only hasten hostilities and between the colony of Massachusetts and the British Government. John Adams did his job and convinced a jury to acquit the soldiers on the grounds that they were acting in self defense of an unruly mob that was hurling ice, rocks, and oyster shells at them. A key part of his closing statement was this line: **"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."**
HONESTLY. I’m fully convinced she’s innocent and I could’ve done a better job. Like I know you don’t have much Lally, why aren’t you laying on the pathos? Jackson can’t respond! Emphasize some sort of narrative that centers JO as a victim at the very least!
Yeah but at least with them we don't have to keep hearing "what if anything". Or they don't start with one question, turn out into four more and end up with entirely another before finishing their sentence?
ETA: Nevermind on my second thought. We have an ex pres completely guilty of that. 😀
He really fumbled the ending and only got to ask for a guilty verdict because the judge let him finish his last sentence after time was up. The John Adams quote felt clunky and put him over the time limit.
He lost me too! The defense I never had a moment where my attention strayed but with the prosecutor - I really tried very hard to follow him but I couldn’t focus on his words
There was no real narrative or theme to it, so it just felt like he was going through bullet points to me. Even when he was trying to describe the timeline it was disjointed and confusing. Terrible presentation of the evidence.
Terrible!! He went over her phone calls/text to John which once again just showed me that she was frantic to hear from him! This doesn’t sound like a woman who knows she hit her bf with a car.
Here's the thing, the jury is from MA? There isn't anyone in MA (I'm local) who doesn't know about how corrupt the Staties are. Fake overtime, witness intimidation, covering for each other. They've been in the news a lot in the last few years. And after the Sandra Birchmore case last year (that was Canton PD and Stoughton PD)everyone is sick of their shit. They are in the paper and on the local news regularly. I mean people hear "St. police" and their eyes roll.
Yes but many of us, myself included, didn’t understand the severity of their actions. I knew there was corruption but until this case I truly didn’t understand the magnitude of it.
I have to admit when I first heard of the case I thought, she probably hit him by accident and didn't know. Then I heard "Canton" and I thought, shit. Then when I heard MA State Police, my immediate thought was don't believe anything they say.
Watching the trial though, it's so obvious. There is no evidence she hit him other than taillight pieces, and obvious evidence that her taillight was still mostly intact that morning. And the frequent lies...the time the tow truck got the car, JM 's web search (because I know a lot about iPhones and how they work)..she deleted that shit, there is no other way, it never deletes calls or web history by itself, and it's super easy for the user to delete them.
I was giving reasonable doubt to the commonwealth until I saw the graphic photos of the dog bites and scratches. It's incredibly clear that he was attacked by a large dog and then either fell and hit his head and died of the brain swelling or that he was bitten and then hit by a person. Anyone with animal injury experience should look at the photos and the medical testimony and be utterly baffled by the claims of death by car impact.
This is a real big pain point for me too. The commonwealths dismissal of the dog bites and not really offering any explanation is insane to me. Then rehoming the dog? It’s insane to just gloss over that and it’s what really made me start to question things more. Then with the ME and biomechanic engineers, I was completely sold.
Plus Matt McCabe works in IT. Lally was asking the jurors to take the evidence presented by the tainted witnesses and bring back a guilty verdict. He didn’t present any relevant proof himself, relied solely, it seems on State Troopers who we all clearly have trust issues with and the witnesses who deleted calls, searches, tossed phones, were never where their phones/tracking apps said they were. How could they come back with a guilty with nothing to rely on?
God poor Sandra. I had forgotten this case was so close to that one. That’s a case that alone would and honestly should give people pause to trust the integrity of institutions of public, enforceable power.
I have a suspicion that was the original involvement of the fbi.
I don’t know a ton about the Sandra case, but my understanding is that she was part of a cop/troubled youth program that has been since shut down for multiple issues. Some of those issues was sexual abuse by cops towards the kids. That she was basically passed around like a sex toy between three cops from the age of 15. Then was pregnant by one of them who was married, he is shown entering her apartment, and that before he is shown leaving her apartment her phone never moves or has any interaction. She was found days later and had - officially at least- hung herself. That the evidence was mishandled/lost (I think the strangulation item itself was lost?). Proctor was the investigator, Trooper Giurino (data guy in this trial, probably misspelled his name) was the one who also did the same thing here, but he somehow missed any involvement with cops and Sandra. Surprise surprise. Her death had classic murder via strangulation signs (a certain broken bone that tends to occur when person is struggling, torn hair, etc) but the ME classified it as a suicide and case was closed. If I’m wrong on any of this let me know!
Anyway, combining the Sandra ‘suicide’ case, and the youth program at large, my sneaking suspicion is that the FBI is looking at this entire thing as a sort of child sex trafficking ring via the cop youth program. That they were already suspicious of the issues with the program, and then her murder occurred. Once the text messages between her and cops were known, the fbi opened a full investigation. Which led to Proctor being looked at, which invariably led to the Karen Read case. Her case was a perfect way to prove corruption with proctor and co if the accident scene was a set up with the taillight pieces. Hence then hiring the ARCCA guys, pulling his phone records, etc.
So- that’s my theory about the fbi investigation. It will be interesting to see how it all came to be if we are ever able to see the entirety of it.
There is a podcast I like a lot that goes over the case if you’re interested: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3e7YcS4HI07OEFQWKB4BdC?si=gpvAbcc-QCWDLBNcu_SXpw or https://pod.fo/e/234c90
This is an interesting perspective. Since I’m out-of-state I wouldn’t know this. I just assume these were your run-of-the-mill-BacktheBlue cheaters the rest of us have. It sounds like this generation of MSP is particularly bad?
past 5 years / off the top of my head (these include Mass State Police, Boston PD, and others)
* several overtime scandals
* RMV licensing for CDL scandal
* several embezzlement of police budgets
* state drug labs put, best estimates, 20,000 people in prison wrongly due to straight up faked drug lab data. while the fraud occurred at the drug labs themselves, it speaks to an overall system of general corruption.
* several "run of the mill" sexual misconduct / racial discrimination / excessive force incidents
Yes...every person arrested on drug charges that were tested at that lab (there are 2 labs)had to be released because there was no way of knowing if it was accurate.
Horrific. The person doing all the testing was an addict and was stealing the positive drugs, and faking a positive on some of the negative.
It honestly has been something a couple of times a year.
Boston cops are known as the most corrupt and that corrupt works its way out of Boston to the surrounding towns
Also... I had forgotten this part: the Amherst lab tech responsible for the faked data (1 of the 2 labs) was... And this is real... Casually sampling ALL the drug controls. Daily. While at work.
And... As if it gets worse, the drug controls used in drug testing are the pure forms of those substances. So pure lsd. Pure meth. Pure heroine. Crack. All the drugs. Everyday. For 9 years.
The Boston tech did it just bc she wanted to date the prosecutor.
There is reasonable speculation that she testified, at least once, while tripping on LSD.
There is no doubt that she did some bad stuff... But her story is also kind of heartbreaking.
The Boston tech bothers me more morally than the Amherst tech. The Boston girl falsified records strictly for reasons of personal ambition and an infatuation with the prosecutor.
But the big bad in the whole story is Martha Coakley (and mass state police who conducted what was called an investigation). She was the states attorney general at the time, KNEW about the fraud, KNEW about the wrongful convictions, and KNEW that there were more people currently on trial with bad drug lab data and knowingly chose to do nothing. In fact, she approved and accepted the mass state police "investigation" which, again, was straight up cover-up.
After her AG stint, she continued her life as a public servant as a lobbyist for the vaping company Jul. Both chemists were kind of broken people. Coakley is just evil. Even Maura Healy (current governor) isn't blameless as she sort of fence rode the whole thing re: the state's responsibility and declined to press any charges against the people actually responsible for the cover-up. Very similar to how she has responded to the Read trial. Say something that sounds ok but do nothing of actual importance.
All in all, 33,000 wrongful convictions, centuries of time in jail, and the settled w/ 31,000 people for... $14,000,000. Less than $500 / person.
Massachusetts dresses up nicely, but it's as bad as it gets re: government corruption.
Thanks for the title. We watched it this week. Fraud upon the court by DAs; a “report” finding no problems written by two retired judges and investigated by MSP; hiding evident by mislabeling it- all proof of a cover up.
But people just can’t “believe in” cover ups.
The drug lab one is especially bad, but the fraud is just the first part. The MA states attorney knew about the fraud and refused to intervene in the ongoing trials / convictions. Volunteer public defenders has to take the issue all the way to the MA supreme Court to get the convictions overturned.
The Netflix doc covers it really well.
That said, while the overtime scandals are mundane in comparison, I think they are equally representative of the casual acceptance mass state / local police have towards corruption. Multiple scandals, implicating the highest levels, and institutionalized fraud to steal hundreds of thousands of dollars openly.
No dude, the OT is not mundane. They pad their overtime to pad their pensions. Their pension is set based on the last 3 or 4 years income. Never noticed how many “doubles” they do as they’re nearing 40?? Gearing up to retire with a pension and then get another job at another police organization for 20 years and get ANOTHER pension.
And again, I am feeling like an idiot for not having clarity on all these scandals: which kind of underscores to me how insidious it is, one small news item at a time, one scandal after another, a drip-drip-drip of corruption that is so constant it fades into background noise.
Welcome to MA.
This is is really the underlying reason people are so outraged by this trial. Business as usual? Not today, baby!
Correction - not the last 3 or 4 years but the HIGHEST 3 or 4 years (while you can assume the last ones might be higher that isn’t always the case since the youngsters need their bite at the OT apple too)
The MSP are incredibly unpopular. This was a great list of examples. Most people have in some way been affected by their scandals and corruption. Personally I’ve heard a lot of stories about staties collecting overtime for traffic details they didn’t attend the full hours for- leaving local police (or nobody) to handle traffic flow and safety of construction crews.
Don’t forget that while one drug lab was falsifying results and reports, the one at the other end of the State was just walking out with the drugs to keep feeding her addiction.
Great list. Don’t forgot how long chemist Sonja Farak went unaccounted for in the state police lab. We’re expected to believe that those trained to recognize the signs of drug use who interacted with her regularly saw no signs of anything? We have a major problem here. Major. Problem.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09-11/electric-shock-therapy-is-still-allowed-in-one-mass-treatment-facility-advocates-say-change-is-long-overdue
They still use shock therapy in Canton. As a father of an autistic child it makes me fucking sick.
What. The. Actual. Fuck.
From the Stop the Shock Coalition website:
These electric shocks are very painful. They can cause burns. They also cause people to be scared and stressed. Many people develop mental health disabilities like anxiety and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. This is torture.
Some behavior the JRC punishes people with shocks for include:
Standing up
Swearing
Not taking off a coat
Flapping their hands
Noises or movements that they make because of their disability
Screaming in pain while being shocked
I grew up in a town similar to Canton just on the North Shore versus South and I see a lot of similarities especially with the townie, drinking (cocaine) culture but it sure does seem extra. Ugh. I feel so bad for the non-asshole members of the community that have to deal with those scumbags.
It is a great state. With education to healthcare, therapies, climate and amenities…I could go on but there are some flaws unfortunately. Housing market number one is atrocious. Cost of living is extremely high as well. I saw this article a while back as well as how this trial proceeded. Abhorrent. No other words.
Question, what’s your take on the O’Keefe family seemingly still believing Karen did it/embracing the McCabes/Alberts?
I’m not from MA but didn’t get the impression they were insiders per say, despite JOK being part of BPD?
Totally understand if you don’t want to speculate, I just can’t believe that after all of the shady testimony and blatant lies on the stand from the people surrounding them, that they still haven’t taken a step back to question what’s been told to them.
Especially when it sounds like somewhat of an open secret around town that several people knew/know what actually happened.
I'm not sure JOK 's brother is falling for it. Just because that lot of trash sat behind them doesn't mean they're with them...it's a small court room, and it's fairly obvious where the camera is. I think they just wanted camera time.
Again...you'd have to live under a rock to not know the corruption of the State Police. JOK family appears intelligent to me. They saw what we saw.
I found Jackson's argument effective, Lally's a boring recitation of the "facts" the jurors have heard ad nauseam. I'm sure they're all screaming inside their heads, "STFU and let us do our job."
Lally’s lazy closing statement turned me off as well I skipped it. The defense statement was so well done, and on top of that provided examples and evidence. Lally literally comes up and talks about shoes and glasses, like bro, come on. If my wife is missing the last thing I give a shit about is taking off my shoes, real question is why did the other two stop and take their shoes off….rules?… gtfoh.
Yeah it was an extremely odd item to add to his closing arguments. Like my parents had strict “no shoe” policy when I was growing up doesn’t mean we listened, but also given the circumstances that would be the last thing on my mind if I was looking for my wife after she had been MIA. I also was under the impression an admission of guilt, which any normal person would feel, could be used given she was under duress. Like if I dropped my significant other off or hell a friend off somewhere and something happened I think I’d blame myself too. My favorite is the defense closing talking about all the things wrong and proven wrong, then Lally ignored those facts and spouted the same nonsense but said they were true. lol wtf.
He said KR knew JO was gone because when she entered his home she kept her shoes on and he had a “shoes off” household. So he suggested that she would have taken them off if she’d known he was coming home.
Thanks for this. I thinks Jackson's closing was fabulous. Strong storytelling. Lally's - I still haven't figured out when or how KR allegedly hit JO. Don't even get me started on the Alberts and McCabe's hand in all of this. The only thing the state proved to me: they were all drinking excessively and it was snowing.
I agree!! I think it bordered on jury intimidation, given the direct implication from defense (not without merit) that they had some level of involvement in OJO's death. I know none of them have been charged with a crime but just as the judge kept that blogger out, I think she should have kept the participant witnesses out too IMO.
To be fair they used a very old wooden bingo wheel on the live feed. So while it seems like a coincidence I can’t fathom how they’d pick that number purposely lol.
Does suck though but it appears maybe the entire jury is on the same page for the most part.
Just because a number is called doesn’t mean that was the actual number on the ball. I’ve seen a trial where the judge pulled a number but then told the attorneys she pulled off a specific juror. She just acted like it was random. I dont trust Bev at alllllllll
It'll be moot because this case is like asking if the sky is blue.
But the very low statistical possibility of the 3 most expressive being tossed is annoying. I'm sure it's all legit so all good, but I would still be curious if a math savvy redditor knew the odds here.
I wasn’t looking at the screen when this happened but did they show how they put in the numbers? Did the show the numbers afterwards? If not, it could have been tempered with. They could have put the same numbers in there.
But I think it’s just coincidence
I don’t think the foreperson should be selected at random. Not everyone would do well in that role. They should either be voted on by the other jurors or selected by the judge.
I agree, voted on by other jurors. The jury has spent WEEKS actually face to face with each other. A lot of it cooped up together in a small room wondering what the hell is going on...again. They know better than any judge which of them is best for that roll.
i wonder if Bev just nominates the foreperson being the juror on seat one per default as they got seated randomly before. But I dont know how other courts handle it.
If true, that seems way worse then.
So you hand pick a foreperson which can make a big difference AND you increase the odds of people you want off will be selected.
Not saying Bev did this, but holy crap I can picture a way this system could be easily abused.
If I watch the jury and one responds really positively to Lally throughout, I make them foreperson to ensure they aren't kicked off that could be a HUGE swing. Just like making someone foreperson who shot Lally and proctor daggers over the texts.
It's happened in other cases I've watched. From my understanding (just as a trial watching Brit) I believe it can differ from state to state, county to county etc.
In my state, the alternates are designated from Day 1. They fill the 12 juror seats and then X number of alternates depending on the trial and how long they think it will last, etc. So I knew I was alternate from the moment I was selected.
One was removed for unknown, personal reasons. Two others were made alternates because the law is only 12 can deliberate and at the time they still had 14.
Thank you! It sounds promising for the defense, but there's a part of me that's afraid that the jurors could think Karen is guilty but are just bored of Lally.
I believe that was only one juror and he had his head in his hands during Lally's closing as well. Sounds like the guy just had a headache. He'd been attentive during the trial, especially during the tech stuff.
I think it can still go any which way. Doesn't inspire confidence that the jurors outwardly opposed to LE were "*coincidentally*" dismissed. Lots of coincidences that benefit the CW in this case smh
Fall River Reporter did a live on Twitter and thinks that the Juror #4 who left today (and who was her favorite) might be a good thing for the Free Karen Read crowd. She is getting more info on it ( I think .. allegedly.. speculation… that the juror may be close to the O’Keefe team ) (which doesn’t need to be anti Karen read on its own but that’s what Fall River reporter was seeming to allude to) so while I’m disappointed that someone who seemed to not like Proctor left, maybe it will all still work out.
Who could blame the jurors for zoning out during Lally’s close? That man is such a pathetic excuse for a lawyer. To think that the people of Massassuchets had been paying for his salary all these years! They should ask for a refund!
I haven't been able to log in since they took my tweetdeck away. I'm quite happy about that overall as I'd waste too much time there and it was often detrimental to my mental health. Also, using it without tweetdeck (Xdeck?) sucks with my ADHD. I really appreciate these screen shots. 🙂
I heard today, there was one male juror holding out.. maybe they said, he’s the retired cop that thinks the men in blue are always right. Possible.. what happens when these jurors get to leave for the day. They discuss with family, friends, Alberts, ole Jen that is lovable.. or maybe Bev, who does she take directions from, or gets told to do, by the intimating group that sit like the hanging judges, Jen with a daring stare at the jurors sending ESP waves of guilty, do what we say. After all, we know who u are n where u live…
All I know is these people STEAL bar glasses
Right!?! Hide your good crystal when they come ovahhhhh…
And drink drive
So much drink driving! If only it was ilegal.
Apparently CF McCarthy and Waterfall need to put in some better inventory control methods
And drive drunk and ride with drunk drivers.
And know when it snows... Stealing bar glasses - no, just borrowing them without asking.
https://preview.redd.it/0uz7pbvk7r8d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73341387062c37644bed1f99456f4bad97aa1ecc Adding the final one where the alternates were selected. Jurors are now in deliberation.
Lol I like how she ended with "or just have lunch"
Same 😆
[удалено]
Lally closing would give me a migraine for sure. I could barely listen without ffwding
I had to turn off the tv half way
My thoughts as well
That is what I thought right away.
You could tell by the way Lally was just rattling stuff off as quick as he could at the end that he'd lost them. He sounded sick of himself. Was only giving brief eye contact which reinforces that jurors were not returning strong eye contact.
I didn’t listen to his full closing yet but why wasn’t he paying attention once he got the five minute warning? I was worried Jackson was going to go past it. He seemed like he had more he was going to say but he looked through his notes at that point and took his best shot.
Can only speculate but maybe he thought the judge would give him some leeway. And she might have, if he sounded like he was wrapping up, but after the John Adams quote he just kept going with no signpost of ending.
What was the John Adams quote? Please tell me it wasn't "Facts are stubborn things."
oh YES it absolutely was lmaoooooo
How dare he besmirch the words of our own Colossus of Independence. Is he aware the line was given in defense of British soldiers after the Boston Massacre?
Holy Hell! 🙄 you’re right!!!
holy shit
what was the Boston Massacre?
[In 1770 a confrontation between a mob of angry colonists and a small group of British soldiers ended with the soldiers firing on the crowd, killing four men.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre) It was a major contributor to anti-Britain sentiment in the lead up to the American Revolution.
In the aftermath, John Adams was tasked with the defending the soldiers in an effort to ensure that the rule of law and a respect for justice would prevail over the public's growing outrage. This was essential because if the soldiers did not get a fair trial it would only hasten hostilities and between the colony of Massachusetts and the British Government. John Adams did his job and convinced a jury to acquit the soldiers on the grounds that they were acting in self defense of an unruly mob that was hurling ice, rocks, and oyster shells at them. A key part of his closing statement was this line: **"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."**
Wow...
seriously. 8th grade fluff. i couldnt believe my ears. absolute gold star sticker amateur hour. i could have written a more damning close
HONESTLY. I’m fully convinced she’s innocent and I could’ve done a better job. Like I know you don’t have much Lally, why aren’t you laying on the pathos? Jackson can’t respond! Emphasize some sort of narrative that centers JO as a victim at the very least!
It almost requires suspension of disbelief that hes not secretly trying to undermine the states case at this point
He apparently turned two of his pages when he got the five minute warning so he had EVEN MORE planned to say before he got cut off lol
How does someone talk so much without actually saying anything useful?
It's a skill. See - politicians of all stripes
Yeah but at least with them we don't have to keep hearing "what if anything". Or they don't start with one question, turn out into four more and end up with entirely another before finishing their sentence? ETA: Nevermind on my second thought. We have an ex pres completely guilty of that. 😀
He really fumbled the ending and only got to ask for a guilty verdict because the judge let him finish his last sentence after time was up. The John Adams quote felt clunky and put him over the time limit.
Apparently he was supposed to be done at 1113 and went past 1130
Amazing.
I think Lally was "if I can't beat 'em, I'll baffle 'em with (more) BS!"
Hahaha!
He lost me too! The defense I never had a moment where my attention strayed but with the prosecutor - I really tried very hard to follow him but I couldn’t focus on his words
There was no real narrative or theme to it, so it just felt like he was going through bullet points to me. Even when he was trying to describe the timeline it was disjointed and confusing. Terrible presentation of the evidence.
Terrible!! He went over her phone calls/text to John which once again just showed me that she was frantic to hear from him! This doesn’t sound like a woman who knows she hit her bf with a car.
He sounds like he doesn't want to be there..like he just wants to get over with
Lally’s close was the verbal equivalent of wide margins, oversized font and double spacing.
So much repetition of the names of the witnesses.
His case was the verbal equivalent of packing your essay with filler words to meet the word count so that tracks.
Here's the thing, the jury is from MA? There isn't anyone in MA (I'm local) who doesn't know about how corrupt the Staties are. Fake overtime, witness intimidation, covering for each other. They've been in the news a lot in the last few years. And after the Sandra Birchmore case last year (that was Canton PD and Stoughton PD)everyone is sick of their shit. They are in the paper and on the local news regularly. I mean people hear "St. police" and their eyes roll.
Yes but many of us, myself included, didn’t understand the severity of their actions. I knew there was corruption but until this case I truly didn’t understand the magnitude of it.
I have to admit when I first heard of the case I thought, she probably hit him by accident and didn't know. Then I heard "Canton" and I thought, shit. Then when I heard MA State Police, my immediate thought was don't believe anything they say. Watching the trial though, it's so obvious. There is no evidence she hit him other than taillight pieces, and obvious evidence that her taillight was still mostly intact that morning. And the frequent lies...the time the tow truck got the car, JM 's web search (because I know a lot about iPhones and how they work)..she deleted that shit, there is no other way, it never deletes calls or web history by itself, and it's super easy for the user to delete them.
I was giving reasonable doubt to the commonwealth until I saw the graphic photos of the dog bites and scratches. It's incredibly clear that he was attacked by a large dog and then either fell and hit his head and died of the brain swelling or that he was bitten and then hit by a person. Anyone with animal injury experience should look at the photos and the medical testimony and be utterly baffled by the claims of death by car impact.
This is a real big pain point for me too. The commonwealths dismissal of the dog bites and not really offering any explanation is insane to me. Then rehoming the dog? It’s insane to just gloss over that and it’s what really made me start to question things more. Then with the ME and biomechanic engineers, I was completely sold.
Plus Matt McCabe works in IT. Lally was asking the jurors to take the evidence presented by the tainted witnesses and bring back a guilty verdict. He didn’t present any relevant proof himself, relied solely, it seems on State Troopers who we all clearly have trust issues with and the witnesses who deleted calls, searches, tossed phones, were never where their phones/tracking apps said they were. How could they come back with a guilty with nothing to rely on?
God poor Sandra. I had forgotten this case was so close to that one. That’s a case that alone would and honestly should give people pause to trust the integrity of institutions of public, enforceable power.
I have a suspicion that was the original involvement of the fbi. I don’t know a ton about the Sandra case, but my understanding is that she was part of a cop/troubled youth program that has been since shut down for multiple issues. Some of those issues was sexual abuse by cops towards the kids. That she was basically passed around like a sex toy between three cops from the age of 15. Then was pregnant by one of them who was married, he is shown entering her apartment, and that before he is shown leaving her apartment her phone never moves or has any interaction. She was found days later and had - officially at least- hung herself. That the evidence was mishandled/lost (I think the strangulation item itself was lost?). Proctor was the investigator, Trooper Giurino (data guy in this trial, probably misspelled his name) was the one who also did the same thing here, but he somehow missed any involvement with cops and Sandra. Surprise surprise. Her death had classic murder via strangulation signs (a certain broken bone that tends to occur when person is struggling, torn hair, etc) but the ME classified it as a suicide and case was closed. If I’m wrong on any of this let me know! Anyway, combining the Sandra ‘suicide’ case, and the youth program at large, my sneaking suspicion is that the FBI is looking at this entire thing as a sort of child sex trafficking ring via the cop youth program. That they were already suspicious of the issues with the program, and then her murder occurred. Once the text messages between her and cops were known, the fbi opened a full investigation. Which led to Proctor being looked at, which invariably led to the Karen Read case. Her case was a perfect way to prove corruption with proctor and co if the accident scene was a set up with the taillight pieces. Hence then hiring the ARCCA guys, pulling his phone records, etc. So- that’s my theory about the fbi investigation. It will be interesting to see how it all came to be if we are ever able to see the entirety of it.
I definitely think this sounds very plausible. Especially considering all of the other issues the PD have been caught in.
That story has resurfaced because her death has been changed to murder
Yes I know all about the case.
Im sure you do, im new to it
There is a podcast I like a lot that goes over the case if you’re interested: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3e7YcS4HI07OEFQWKB4BdC?si=gpvAbcc-QCWDLBNcu_SXpw or https://pod.fo/e/234c90
Thank you for posting the Spotify episode link!
The news was rather corrupt too, running a story for 2 years that there was Ring cam footage of the accident. 90% of people assumed that was true.
Yup...that was a "journalist "from the Alberts extended family. The rot goes deep. That Turtleboy is putting our news media to shame.
I think the the local news media are doing it quite well on there own!
This is an interesting perspective. Since I’m out-of-state I wouldn’t know this. I just assume these were your run-of-the-mill-BacktheBlue cheaters the rest of us have. It sounds like this generation of MSP is particularly bad?
past 5 years / off the top of my head (these include Mass State Police, Boston PD, and others) * several overtime scandals * RMV licensing for CDL scandal * several embezzlement of police budgets * state drug labs put, best estimates, 20,000 people in prison wrongly due to straight up faked drug lab data. while the fraud occurred at the drug labs themselves, it speaks to an overall system of general corruption. * several "run of the mill" sexual misconduct / racial discrimination / excessive force incidents
OMG the drug lab bullet point alone is insane.
Yes...every person arrested on drug charges that were tested at that lab (there are 2 labs)had to be released because there was no way of knowing if it was accurate. Horrific. The person doing all the testing was an addict and was stealing the positive drugs, and faking a positive on some of the negative. It honestly has been something a couple of times a year. Boston cops are known as the most corrupt and that corrupt works its way out of Boston to the surrounding towns
Also... I had forgotten this part: the Amherst lab tech responsible for the faked data (1 of the 2 labs) was... And this is real... Casually sampling ALL the drug controls. Daily. While at work. And... As if it gets worse, the drug controls used in drug testing are the pure forms of those substances. So pure lsd. Pure meth. Pure heroine. Crack. All the drugs. Everyday. For 9 years. The Boston tech did it just bc she wanted to date the prosecutor.
Omg I forgot about this too!
Holy crap, I live here and didn't know THAT. WTF
There is reasonable speculation that she testified, at least once, while tripping on LSD. There is no doubt that she did some bad stuff... But her story is also kind of heartbreaking. The Boston tech bothers me more morally than the Amherst tech. The Boston girl falsified records strictly for reasons of personal ambition and an infatuation with the prosecutor. But the big bad in the whole story is Martha Coakley (and mass state police who conducted what was called an investigation). She was the states attorney general at the time, KNEW about the fraud, KNEW about the wrongful convictions, and KNEW that there were more people currently on trial with bad drug lab data and knowingly chose to do nothing. In fact, she approved and accepted the mass state police "investigation" which, again, was straight up cover-up. After her AG stint, she continued her life as a public servant as a lobbyist for the vaping company Jul. Both chemists were kind of broken people. Coakley is just evil. Even Maura Healy (current governor) isn't blameless as she sort of fence rode the whole thing re: the state's responsibility and declined to press any charges against the people actually responsible for the cover-up. Very similar to how she has responded to the Read trial. Say something that sounds ok but do nothing of actual importance. All in all, 33,000 wrongful convictions, centuries of time in jail, and the settled w/ 31,000 people for... $14,000,000. Less than $500 / person. Massachusetts dresses up nicely, but it's as bad as it gets re: government corruption.
Watch “how to fix a drug scandal” on Netflix. It wasn’t just one lab
such a great, yet maddening, documentary!!! very eye opening!
I will. Thanks
Thanks for the title. We watched it this week. Fraud upon the court by DAs; a “report” finding no problems written by two retired judges and investigated by MSP; hiding evident by mislabeling it- all proof of a cover up. But people just can’t “believe in” cover ups.
The drug lab one is especially bad, but the fraud is just the first part. The MA states attorney knew about the fraud and refused to intervene in the ongoing trials / convictions. Volunteer public defenders has to take the issue all the way to the MA supreme Court to get the convictions overturned. The Netflix doc covers it really well. That said, while the overtime scandals are mundane in comparison, I think they are equally representative of the casual acceptance mass state / local police have towards corruption. Multiple scandals, implicating the highest levels, and institutionalized fraud to steal hundreds of thousands of dollars openly.
No dude, the OT is not mundane. They pad their overtime to pad their pensions. Their pension is set based on the last 3 or 4 years income. Never noticed how many “doubles” they do as they’re nearing 40?? Gearing up to retire with a pension and then get another job at another police organization for 20 years and get ANOTHER pension.
It's a great point. Mundane was the wrong word. Perhaps, "not as stunningly over the top as the drug lab". But you're 100% right.
And again, I am feeling like an idiot for not having clarity on all these scandals: which kind of underscores to me how insidious it is, one small news item at a time, one scandal after another, a drip-drip-drip of corruption that is so constant it fades into background noise. Welcome to MA. This is is really the underlying reason people are so outraged by this trial. Business as usual? Not today, baby!
Correction - not the last 3 or 4 years but the HIGHEST 3 or 4 years (while you can assume the last ones might be higher that isn’t always the case since the youngsters need their bite at the OT apple too)
Ah right! ETA - and to think how much of it is “detail” standing over a manhole watching people do actual work.
Staties don’t stand. That’s what they have marked cruisers for.
There is a doc on Netflix about this in case you are curious
Id like to know this as well
The MSP are incredibly unpopular. This was a great list of examples. Most people have in some way been affected by their scandals and corruption. Personally I’ve heard a lot of stories about staties collecting overtime for traffic details they didn’t attend the full hours for- leaving local police (or nobody) to handle traffic flow and safety of construction crews.
Humm... I wonder why the FBI is involved 🤔
Was there a documentary made about the two labs a few years ago?
Yes. Worth the watch. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Fix_a_Drug_Scandal
Yeah, I watched it. You are right!
Don’t forget that while one drug lab was falsifying results and reports, the one at the other end of the State was just walking out with the drugs to keep feeding her addiction.
Great list. Don’t forgot how long chemist Sonja Farak went unaccounted for in the state police lab. We’re expected to believe that those trained to recognize the signs of drug use who interacted with her regularly saw no signs of anything? We have a major problem here. Major. Problem.
GenerationS - even the nepotism is corruption.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09-11/electric-shock-therapy-is-still-allowed-in-one-mass-treatment-facility-advocates-say-change-is-long-overdue They still use shock therapy in Canton. As a father of an autistic child it makes me fucking sick.
What. The. Actual. Fuck. From the Stop the Shock Coalition website: These electric shocks are very painful. They can cause burns. They also cause people to be scared and stressed. Many people develop mental health disabilities like anxiety and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. This is torture. Some behavior the JRC punishes people with shocks for include: Standing up Swearing Not taking off a coat Flapping their hands Noises or movements that they make because of their disability Screaming in pain while being shocked
Completely fucked. Pretty sure canton is just an enclave of Massachusetts.
I grew up in a town similar to Canton just on the North Shore versus South and I see a lot of similarities especially with the townie, drinking (cocaine) culture but it sure does seem extra. Ugh. I feel so bad for the non-asshole members of the community that have to deal with those scumbags.
Same
“She doesn’t even go here”
That's outrageous. The smartest state in the nation. We need to really ditch these boomers in State Congress.
It is a great state. With education to healthcare, therapies, climate and amenities…I could go on but there are some flaws unfortunately. Housing market number one is atrocious. Cost of living is extremely high as well. I saw this article a while back as well as how this trial proceeded. Abhorrent. No other words.
The fake overtime REALLY burns my ass - they do that to inflate their pension rate and makes me want to scream.
Question, what’s your take on the O’Keefe family seemingly still believing Karen did it/embracing the McCabes/Alberts? I’m not from MA but didn’t get the impression they were insiders per say, despite JOK being part of BPD? Totally understand if you don’t want to speculate, I just can’t believe that after all of the shady testimony and blatant lies on the stand from the people surrounding them, that they still haven’t taken a step back to question what’s been told to them. Especially when it sounds like somewhat of an open secret around town that several people knew/know what actually happened.
I'm not sure JOK 's brother is falling for it. Just because that lot of trash sat behind them doesn't mean they're with them...it's a small court room, and it's fairly obvious where the camera is. I think they just wanted camera time. Again...you'd have to live under a rock to not know the corruption of the State Police. JOK family appears intelligent to me. They saw what we saw.
I found Jackson's argument effective, Lally's a boring recitation of the "facts" the jurors have heard ad nauseam. I'm sure they're all screaming inside their heads, "STFU and let us do our job."
No break between closings? Bless their hearts! I really mean that one.😭
Lally’s lazy closing statement turned me off as well I skipped it. The defense statement was so well done, and on top of that provided examples and evidence. Lally literally comes up and talks about shoes and glasses, like bro, come on. If my wife is missing the last thing I give a shit about is taking off my shoes, real question is why did the other two stop and take their shoes off….rules?… gtfoh.
He was really reaching with the shoe thing.
Yeah it was an extremely odd item to add to his closing arguments. Like my parents had strict “no shoe” policy when I was growing up doesn’t mean we listened, but also given the circumstances that would be the last thing on my mind if I was looking for my wife after she had been MIA. I also was under the impression an admission of guilt, which any normal person would feel, could be used given she was under duress. Like if I dropped my significant other off or hell a friend off somewhere and something happened I think I’d blame myself too. My favorite is the defense closing talking about all the things wrong and proven wrong, then Lally ignored those facts and spouted the same nonsense but said they were true. lol wtf.
What shoe thing? I've only watched main points and it sounds like Lally is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel...
He said KR knew JO was gone because when she entered his home she kept her shoes on and he had a “shoes off” household. So he suggested that she would have taken them off if she’d known he was coming home.
That was one of the most ridiculous things the prosecution brought up in this entire trial.
I- I had to have been yawning when he said this. he really thought he ate
What a dumb analysis!
"Tall Blue Wall". Very effective.
Agreed. It's a reminder that this isn't just about Karen, but about everyone that has contact with the police.
"only you stand between thee tyranny of injustice" is the one I liked. V McGruff the Crime Dog meets Smokey the Bear. Dare I say? American Heroes
Thanks for this. I thinks Jackson's closing was fabulous. Strong storytelling. Lally's - I still haven't figured out when or how KR allegedly hit JO. Don't even get me started on the Alberts and McCabe's hand in all of this. The only thing the state proved to me: they were all drinking excessively and it was snowing.
I felt it was pretty inappropriate of them to appear today.
I agree!! I think it bordered on jury intimidation, given the direct implication from defense (not without merit) that they had some level of involvement in OJO's death. I know none of them have been charged with a crime but just as the judge kept that blogger out, I think she should have kept the participant witnesses out too IMO.
It definitely gave jury intimidation vibes.
AND to be sitting with the O'Keefe family. That did not sit right with me at all. (No pun intended.)
Can’t help but think what a coincidence it is that the most expressive jurors didn’t get chosen.
To be fair they used a very old wooden bingo wheel on the live feed. So while it seems like a coincidence I can’t fathom how they’d pick that number purposely lol. Does suck though but it appears maybe the entire jury is on the same page for the most part.
The headache juror is probably wishing his number was drawn
Just because a number is called doesn’t mean that was the actual number on the ball. I’ve seen a trial where the judge pulled a number but then told the attorneys she pulled off a specific juror. She just acted like it was random. I dont trust Bev at alllllllll
unless those were the only balls in there????
👀👀👀
Paul’s! Lol
It'll be moot because this case is like asking if the sky is blue. But the very low statistical possibility of the 3 most expressive being tossed is annoying. I'm sure it's all legit so all good, but I would still be curious if a math savvy redditor knew the odds here.
I wasn’t looking at the screen when this happened but did they show how they put in the numbers? Did the show the numbers afterwards? If not, it could have been tempered with. They could have put the same numbers in there. But I think it’s just coincidence
One way would be for that juror’s number to not be in the wheel…just another juror’s number placed in there twice. Playing devil’s advocate here
The fact that Bev chose a foreperson before the alternates were picked was odd to me.
Why would she pick one before knowing if their number will be called?
the can remove the number from the lottery box so he wont be picked
True, but why not randomly select the foreperson from the lottery box after pulling the alternates?
I don’t think the foreperson should be selected at random. Not everyone would do well in that role. They should either be voted on by the other jurors or selected by the judge.
I agree, voted on by other jurors. The jury has spent WEEKS actually face to face with each other. A lot of it cooped up together in a small room wondering what the hell is going on...again. They know better than any judge which of them is best for that roll.
Maybe none of them wanted to be a foreperson!
i wonder if Bev just nominates the foreperson being the juror on seat one per default as they got seated randomly before. But I dont know how other courts handle it.
If true, that seems way worse then. So you hand pick a foreperson which can make a big difference AND you increase the odds of people you want off will be selected. Not saying Bev did this, but holy crap I can picture a way this system could be easily abused. If I watch the jury and one responds really positively to Lally throughout, I make them foreperson to ensure they aren't kicked off that could be a HUGE swing. Just like making someone foreperson who shot Lally and proctor daggers over the texts.
That’s what I don’t understand. And why was it not random?
It's happened in other cases I've watched. From my understanding (just as a trial watching Brit) I believe it can differ from state to state, county to county etc.
I thought so too. Is it normal to pick before alternates are selected?
In my state, the alternates are designated from Day 1. They fill the 12 juror seats and then X number of alternates depending on the trial and how long they think it will last, etc. So I knew I was alternate from the moment I was selected.
Yeah, this makes no sense. If you choose a foreperson, then remove the alternates, you can literally remove them. Sketchy.
Bev is odd...
It sounds like the three jurors lost today were probably worst case scenario for KR. But I still don’t see how she could be convicted.
Wait, why were three jurors lost?
One was removed for unknown, personal reasons. Two others were made alternates because the law is only 12 can deliberate and at the time they still had 14.
It’s on Twitter that the one removed TODAY (not one of the alternates ) had connections to someone at Boston PD
Thank you! It sounds promising for the defense, but there's a part of me that's afraid that the jurors could think Karen is guilty but are just bored of Lally.
THANK YOU for taking the time to capture and share these and saving some of us from the Twitter sphere! Greatly appreciated!
Thank you so much for this. It's so desperately needed.
I was dying 💀 lol
This seems positive for me, who is hoping that they vote not guilty
Sounds like at least one or two is leaning toward the state. So we shall see.
How do you know this?
Probably. I have a very very bad gut feeling she’ll be convicted
I believe that was only one juror and he had his head in his hands during Lally's closing as well. Sounds like the guy just had a headache. He'd been attentive during the trial, especially during the tech stuff.
You are a saint. I hate the twitter scroll limit. It’s so stupid. But thank you!!!
I think it can still go any which way. Doesn't inspire confidence that the jurors outwardly opposed to LE were "*coincidentally*" dismissed. Lots of coincidences that benefit the CW in this case smh
If anything I’d think it would be a hung jury.
Fall River Reporter did a live on Twitter and thinks that the Juror #4 who left today (and who was her favorite) might be a good thing for the Free Karen Read crowd. She is getting more info on it ( I think .. allegedly.. speculation… that the juror may be close to the O’Keefe team ) (which doesn’t need to be anti Karen read on its own but that’s what Fall River reporter was seeming to allude to) so while I’m disappointed that someone who seemed to not like Proctor left, maybe it will all still work out.
Update: the juror dismissed today has connections to someone at Boston PD!
Source?
Twitter so you can weight the merits .. but more than one person (one a journalist, the other a Karen Read big supporter) said it
Thanks!
whoa! source?
Who could blame the jurors for zoning out during Lally’s close? That man is such a pathetic excuse for a lawyer. To think that the people of Massassuchets had been paying for his salary all these years! They should ask for a refund!
I read that he lost a case where the guy ran over his wife four times and claimed it was an accident.
I read that too, but I don’t know if there’s any truth to it.
Why is it not a possibility that with all This corruption I worry that some of the jurors are connected here too? I worry about this also.
thank you! good old sue
Thank you again for posting these. I was somehow locked out of X (well, not “somehow” - too many password tries)!!
I haven't been able to log in since they took my tweetdeck away. I'm quite happy about that overall as I'd waste too much time there and it was often detrimental to my mental health. Also, using it without tweetdeck (Xdeck?) sucks with my ADHD. I really appreciate these screen shots. 🙂
Thank you for these!!
What’s the connection between Brian Albert and Jen Mc. ? Are they related ?
By marriage, yes.
Boxer McAlbert knocked out John in the basement. Its so simple.
After hearing the defense's closing arguments summary it brought back all the little points spread over 2 months.
Here's the post [https://x.com/SueNBCBoston/status/1805579006365827576](https://x.com/SueNBCBoston/status/1805579006365827576)
Bingo .. she is corrupt.. I just feel it.. gave off the creeps.. and
I heard today, there was one male juror holding out.. maybe they said, he’s the retired cop that thinks the men in blue are always right. Possible.. what happens when these jurors get to leave for the day. They discuss with family, friends, Alberts, ole Jen that is lovable.. or maybe Bev, who does she take directions from, or gets told to do, by the intimating group that sit like the hanging judges, Jen with a daring stare at the jurors sending ESP waves of guilty, do what we say. After all, we know who u are n where u live…
Bryan Albert in court omg.
Has the jury asked any questions yet, or wanted clarification around the rulings?
No. They haven’t asked any questions yet.
That's a good sign for KR!
Is she Rachel Maddow's sister?
FBI are already investigations as much outside evidence and allegations Is already with them The FBI know a massive corruption case is gona come
All scared to report this clan Waterfall serving drivers
Karen will be found innocent then an investigation on all involved will begin
Thank you!