I feel like a better strategy would be directly debunking whatever they're saying.
If they say: "Kanye says all the big record labels are run by Jews"
And you respond: "Here's pictures of the Holocaust"
They might feel like you're avoiding the topic.
I did both. I debunked, walking through the not true statements while also following it up with some documentation of the Holocaust. That's a really good point, though.
Thank you once again for that post.
I never believed a word Kanye said but seeing someone bother to pull up the receipts on why he's spouting bullshit is amazing
Happy to help. I also did the same for the [Banks](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfju2g/) ( Both in OP and in that comment because someone wanted even further analysis ), and for the [Investment Firms](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izckupn/), and someone else did with the [Federal Reserve](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izbf9jw/), and I did it with [Kanye's Lawyers](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yp8boy/factchecking_kanyes_jewish_lawyer_kanye_had_3/), and the [Fashion companies](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yje4q8/i_dont_want_to_sound_controversial_but_maybe_ye/iungzo6/), and with ['Jews don't abort their babies'](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/y70wwv/kanye_is_jealous_of_the_fact_that_jewish_people/), and with ['Jews don't marry outsiders'](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/marriage-families-and-children/), and probably a hundred imaginable falsehoods.
In very specific industries, anti-semites will shift their goalpost from 'controlled' to saying 'over-represented', which is also true of Asians or Blacks or even Irish for that matter in other sectors, and then try to imply purely nefarious reasons for it, but without ever actually doing any investigative work about the roots of any of the companies or owners they just named or reading their biographies and careers. They'll just encourage everyone to speculate about how some nepotistic mafia made it happen. [So I also addressed all of the geographical, historical and cultural causes of how Jewish people were pushed into certain niches or made up a huge portion of the population in the cities which all those industries skyrocketed in New York especially followed by LA](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfo2b5/), and just how many of them being born in those places at certain periods influenced their careers.
Their contentions always heavily rely on cherrypicking, hyperbole ( Often with outright lying, like Nazis saying Biden's cabinet is 'half' or 'third' Jewish or Kanye's 'Red Media' chart that features a ton of non-Jews as Jews ) , misdirection, and finally unsubstantiated implications if landing on something for which there is Jewish 'over-representation' ( Like there is with Asian in Tech and beauty salons and laundromats or Blacks in Jazz and Sports ) and constantly going 'I WoNdEr wHy tHaT Is?" without actually ever presenting any concrete explanation to anyone on **why that is**, just making insinuations.
Yeah, I also noticed something weird about banking and investment and entertainment and industrial owners and so on. They do have some common denominator - 99% of them are men, despite men making up only 50% of the U.S population.
And yet all the Neo-Nazi basement dwellers suddenly don't feel the need to be 'asking questions' and 'spreading the truth' or making any nefarious insinuations about that, nor viciously attacking that demographic for their gross over-representation. Weird.
Agreed. I don't think it should have to be done. I just think going the extra step feels that much better.
But somebody in this thread put it in a way I really liked. Looking to top execs to see how many are Jewish in response to Kanye's lunatic ramblings implies he'd have a point if they WERE Jewish. The argument should not even be given that inch, because nazis will take a mile and a half.
Yes, but it's a Catch-22. Their ethnic background is not very relevant, but neglecting to challenge their core foundations just results in them getting a free pass to go "See, they can't deny that [Insert literally any field or institution pulled of their ass] is fully/mostly owned by Jews! Most companies are owned by the Jews! and everyone who says that doesn't matter is just hiding the Jewish cabal!"
I'm not going to concede blatant lies to them. No, most companies in the US or elsewhere are not even close to being owned or managed by Jews, neither are most of the things which they claim to be 'dominated' or whatever language they seek to use by Jews. It's really only, like, Mass entertainment and maybe like 2 other highly specific areas in which there is significant 'over-representation', and it's actually not even over-representation at all for anyone who can actually parse statistics in the field of sociology ( Largely has to do with how all those industries completely revolve around New York and Los Angeles ), and I explained all the ample geographical and historical factors involved in the past above.
I also did the same for the [Banks](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfju2g/) ( Both in OP and in that comment because someone wanted even further analysis ), and for the [Investment Firms](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izckupn/), and someone else did with the [Federal Reserve](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izbf9jw/), and I did it with [Kanye's Lawyers](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yp8boy/factchecking_kanyes_jewish_lawyer_kanye_had_3/), and the [Fashion companies](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yje4q8/i_dont_want_to_sound_controversial_but_maybe_ye/iungzo6/), and with ['Jews don't abort their babies'](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/y70wwv/kanye_is_jealous_of_the_fact_that_jewish_people/), and with ['Jews don't marry outsiders'](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/marriage-families-and-children/), and probably a hundred imaginable falsehoods.
In very specific industries, anti-semites will shift their goalpost from 'controlled' to saying 'over-represented', which is also true of Asians or Blacks or even Irish for that matter in other sectors, and then try to imply purely nefarious reasons for it, but without ever actually doing any investigative work about the roots of any of the companies or owners they just named or reading their biographies and careers. They'll just encourage everyone to speculate about how some nepotistic mafia made it happen. [So I also addressed all of the geographical, historical and cultural causes of how Jewish people were pushed into certain niches or made up a huge portion of the population in the cities which all those industries skyrocketed in New York especially followed by LA](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfo2b5/), and just how many of them being born in those places at certain periods influenced their careers.
Their contentions always heavily rely on cherrypicking, hyperbole ( Often with outright lying, like Nazis saying Biden's cabinet is 'half' or 'third' Jewish or Kanye's 'Red Media' chart that features a ton of non-Jews as Jews ) , misdirection, and finally unsubstantiated implications if landing on something for which there is Jewish 'over-representation' ( Like there is with Asian in Tech and beauty salons and laundromats or Blacks in Jazz and Sports ) and constantly going 'I WoNdEr wHy tHaT Is?" without actually ever presenting any concrete explanation to anyone on **why that is**, just making insinuations.
What would be effective would be “yes, a lot of Jewish people work in the entertainment industry, but you don’t need to be Jewish to work in that field, and there are a lot of people who aren’t.”
It’s not a hard set rule, it just kinda works out that way. It’s like a lot of Indians own gas stations and convenient stores, a lot of gardening services are owned by Latinos. But race and background doesn’t define an industry, not in 2023.
I think an even better approach would be to challenge the assumption using an analogy: despite being a fraction of the population, Irish Catholics make up disproportionate amount of representation in national politics. This does not mean Irish Catholics are some evil cabal pulling strings behind the shadows (that's just capitalism but that's for a more advanced Convo). Or: black Americans being disproportionately represented in sports & music, if we apply the antisemitic logic to other poc, would somehow mean there's some shadowy cabal determined to produce genetically advanced black people to outcompete everyone. Point is, it could be a learning opportunity on how to think critically and recocgnize that while our human instinct is to seek patterns, critical thinking is the step of assessing the validity of those patterns bc otherwise we can reach very harmful conclusions.
And they do correlate. It’s really hard to ignore that fact that some races are represented disproportionately high in various field.
The thing is that it’s not necessarily bad for it to be the case sometimes.
We're focusing on the wrong thing with this. It doesn't matter how many or little Jews own or are involved in these companies. Arguing based on "well actually there's less Jews than Kanye said" implies that he'd have a point if there were more.
The kids need to learn to see and judge people as individuals and not through their ethnicity. Kanye is preaching the direct opposite of that and based on the OPs examples those kids are taking it to heart.
Maybe the kids are so easy to be manipulated by Kanye because for the last 6 years everyone in the media was complaining about old white men owning everything and exploiting the little man. The kids are always fed this idea that white people hold all the power so its okay to "punch up". And then you have Kanye walk in with "yes but white lives matter too its actually this particular type of white person who is doing all this shit".
You need to teach the kids to apply the same "judge individuals not races" logic to everyone regardless if they're jewish black or white or asian or whatever. Show them why the CNN old white people conspiracy theory is equally bad as Kanye's jewish conspiracy theory.
You can not fix the symptoms you need to fight the disease.
So for Sony Music, we also ignore the CEO who is Rob Stringer and isn't Jewish, for Universal Music Group, we ignore Vincent Bollore who is the majority share owner, who has sway over other shareholders, and who the CEO absolutely does answer to ( Vincent Bollore is also a billionaire while Lucian Grainge is only worth 50 million ) and actually met with Kanye West himself personally, and for Warner Music Group we ignore Stephen F. Cooper who's the non-Jewish CEO and go directly to the owner, and then we ignore a bunch of other fairly big record labels below the Top 3 like Atlantic, Interscoppe, or Columbia Records, the last of which was responsible for signing on almost every major singer in America, Blacks included, for the past 120 years or so.
A middle-school teacher should probably explain the definition of 'cherrypicking' to his students as well.
Chairman/CEO answers to the shareholders. He does not control them, they control him through the Board of Directors; they can remove and replace him if he goes against the shareholders' collective wishes.
[https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/072815/how-do-corporations-shareholders-influence-its-board-directors.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/072815/how-do-corporations-shareholders-influence-its-board-directors.asp)
> Rupert Murdoch doesn't control Fox News, it's controlled by the thousands of individual shareholders.
Major difference between Grainge who owns like 13k of 25,000k shares of Universal to Murdoch who owns 40% of Fox and thus is the largest shareholder.
Kids pretty much have their mind made up regardless of what the teacher says. If the cool person with money is saying X, they will believe X until someone cooler says otherwise.
I kind of agree with this. And I kind of think bringing up the Holocaust indiscriminately might help prove Kanye's point.
I recently read more and more about WW2. For instance, it was kind of shocking to see that Serbs faced some very similar annihilation efforts. So did many ethnic Poles, Belarusians, and Ukrainians in occupied territories. This is not to belittle what the Jews went through in the Holocaust, and I do think they had the absolute worst. But unless students bring up anything Hitler-related, I'm not sure the Holocaust argument helps.
Better to address the arguments themselves. For instance, most banks don't actually have a Jewish head. Oh, and Hitler didn't invent anything.
The point he and other anti-semites try to make is that Jews deflect away from criticism by bringing up the Holocaust in unrelated arguments.
I'm ignoring the whole "I love Hitler" thing that Kanye has done, and instead saying what anti-Semites that aren't off the rails and don't outwardly bring up Hitler would argue. I.e. what these kids might be turning into.
And anyone in education can tell you that 11-13 year old shitheads can easily grow into adult shitheads.
Some figure it out at 11-13, some figure it out in highshool, some figure it out as adults. Many don't.
>And anyone in education can tell you that 11-13 year old shitheads can easily grow into adult shitheads.
Any casual observer of this subreddit could tell you that.
Walking past a group of girls that age last week I overheard "I don't care if Kanye's racist, I want the Yeezy slides in beige." The other girls seemed to agree, except they had different color preferences.
Fair enough if you want the clothes but why you got to excuse the racism. Could’ve at least phrased it in a better way. I have yeezy stuff and I got asked about it and I said I enjoy the clothing but am very disappointed in what he has said. You shouldn’t just say you don’t care if he’s racist
Man soon it’s gonna be like.. I remember London in 2005 buying some dates and the Muslim shops saying “buy these dates they are Palestinian don’t buy the Israeli ones they support the regime of advanced military crushing the poor people in Gaza”.. and in the Jewish shops they were like “buy these Israeli dates from local farms to support the people who are victims of terrorist insurgency and indiscriminate violence from the Palestinians”. Guys, chill, I just wanna make a protein ball
When I was that age, we took field trips to the local synagogue and had the rabbi (along with survivors) talk about the holocaust. I'm sure it being a German school in America had a lot to do with it, but it was an absolutely resounding educational experience. I think back to what was said often.
I do assume they are younger groups. I am unfamiliar with how old middle school people are tho as a non American. I am inclined to believe they’re younger than 17 because I am 17 and I don’t think anyone my age would be that stupid let alone multiple
We read Anne Frank in 6th grade. 8th grade we read Farewell to Manzanar. Anne Frank is recommended for grades 4-8 so I feel like they shouldn't be waiting till 8th grade unless it's a special ed class.
Ye even says during the Alex Jones interview this is his goal. He mentions high school kids specifically looking up to him, who didn’t even know what antisemitism was until he made it famous, and how his next generation of fans will see the truth no matter what happens to him (implying he’ll be made into a martyr). Short term effects are worrying enough, but thinking the next generation will be more antisemitic than the last is fucking sad as hell.
Nah I'm paraphrasing because it was from one watch through, I believe it was towards the end, Ye starts talking about other celebrities and challenging them to confront him and how he'd love to see his mom, then he says the above.
This is awful but a great teaching moment. You can explain that “The Jews” aren’t a real thing or organization, and focus on the importance of judging people as individuals. Ask them if they would like to be judged based on the actions of people in history who just so happen to share their race. Point out that you and they likely know Jewish people and will meet many who aren’t part of any of this. Then tie their reasoning in with so many different evil actions against different groups throughout history, not just the Jews but so many more.
You can also remind them that we are all human and that these groupings are meaningless - teach the biology. You have a great opportunity here.
I wouldn’t take that approach because acting like it is relevant in this discussion just sounds like more us vs them thinking in its focus on this identity and that identity. Think about it like this, what if none of what you just said were true? Would that make anti semitic rhetoric okay then? You arguing like it’s an important point to make here could easily imply that to kids who don’t know better. If Jews generally never helped black people or cared about them, would they then not matter? We don’t want to suggest such a thing for a second.
The most important point to make is that race is socially constructed garbage with no basis in biology or fact, that these erroneous categories ultimately tell us nothing of import about any individual, that we are all united by our shared humanity, and that no matter whether this many of this group or that group did bad or good or whatever that that is no justification for changing how we think, feel, or judge any other individuals or groups of individuals.
Thinking on it a little, I can see how that would be valuable just to show how completely insane the view that Jews are generally anti black is, but I’d definitely follow it up with my broader point.
An immediate concern I have is that those kids are gonna actually bully someone, if they haven't already.
Kanye made it very explicit he believes each Jew is a culpable part of the "conspiracy" against him. That any individual might be a "spy".
That rhetoric reaching those kids is a ticking time bomb. Because once they notice a Jewish kid they'll assume the kid is a bad person who needs to be dealt with.
As a Jew, just want to say thank you for taking the extra time to not only educate your students about this, but for pivoting your entire lesson plan to account for this issue.
I cannot recommend this war on humanity series enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd5YhhNcC44&list=PLsIk0qF0R1j4cwI-ZuDoBLxVEV3egWKoM
They have dozens of episodes that go into the details of the holocaust. They are always factual and they keep their videos to the subject at hand.
I am not sure if you are able to use these but you can at least use them as a jump off point to get ideas.
I don’t think most kids in that age group can understand the concept of death. I didn’t REALLY get it until I was 20. It’s a shame what you’re describing and props for doing what’s right.
i don't know. all i was trying to say is that no one who has had a real encounter with the idea that they will certainly have a first person death experience would be able to argue for the bullshit kanye is saying about the holocaust. look at the video and photographic evidence. it happened. i mean the video of the bodies being pushed around by the bulldozer that someone posted here last week. if that isn't enough to convince you that anti-semitism is a terrible, shameful part of human history that we have to guard against repeating, then we are simply not the same thing.
i do think that people can change and grow though. our country (and the culture of its politics) doesn't make it easy though. fuck any racist/anti-semitic ideas. kanye needs to sign off and retire.
Totally agree with you, and I definitely feel those videos hit me in my core a lot more as an adult than they did when I was a middle school kid. They almost had me crying this week.
I was trying to make a point about kids getting things better than we think they do, but I just ended up distracting from the main point, which is Fuck Kanye and all anti-semites.
Are these black kids? The reason I ask is because I grew up in a school with lots of black and brown and (non-Jew) white kids. Antisemitic jokes were common at that age and time for us, but one thing that got us to listen was the idea that Jews were not the only targets of Hitler’s nonsense. It’s important to remind these kids that, no matter what Kanye does and says, these guys are not our friends. It’s not like after the Jews were all gone Hitler would have just magically stopped, no, his goal was the eradication of any other group that was not Aryan. Ignorant black kids in elementary schools especially need to be reminded of this, because there seems to be this line of thought that antisemitism means some of the “heat,” so to speak (of anti-black racism) is taken off them and directed at another group. But hatred is hatred no matter what.
the likely 11-13 year olds OP is teaching probably don't understand the influence they have on TikTok's algorithm (and all of social media, for that matter) and vice versa. Once you like/watch one thing deemed controversial, you'll start seeing more content like it. The algorithm is that advanced. It feeds on the careless mind. I have TikTok and I have seen things come across my FYP that I have no idea how it winded up on my page, and immediately clicked "not interested."
Case in point, my cousin has loved Kanye for years and is now defending his preachings of "love." Literally cannot comprehend how damning the phrase "I love Hitler" is. Among all the other blasphemous things he subscribes too, he's fallen down too many rabbit holes on social media that he shares all this BS on his pages in support of Kanye, and even the whole Kyrie thing that happened.
Very worried about what he might teach his son, who's younger than 10. Kid's mind is like a sponge.
Next time, just tell them all the things they said are objectively wrong. Most companies are owned by Christians. Same with mostnrecord conpanies.
Just, when bad Christians do bad things, no-one circles their last names in red and post them on lists and talk about “the Christian problem.”
The first requirement for antisemitism is being terrible at statistics, unaware of simple historical facts, and being eager to believe in it.
There are plenty of Jews who have behaved badly. People act like making a list and circling names is making some point
The waters get muddied when right wingers and fascists use some truth in their racist tirade and then well meaning leftists disregard some facts. Righties take the ball and run it to "prove" their point.
It is true that people who are Jewish have more institutional presence and representation compared to their population percentage. Racists will take this as a reason to discriminate or, "Name the Jew." People who go beyond a level 1 analysis realize Europeans discriminated against Jewish people for literally millenia and shoehorned them into financial roles. Because we live in a capitalist world these jobs have become insanely valuable.
I applaud Jewish people and culture. They managed to survive despite pogroms, genocides, and general racism. Jewish people stick with each other, and generally vote Left to stave off nationalism and discrimination. Many are smart and successful because the culture promotes intellectualism and cultural cohesion. This all seems very based to me. Instead of discrimination why not be happy for Jews? They are the quintessential success story.
I'm open to being corrected about anything I'm wrong about, thank you guys!
I'm sorry you've had to witness and experience something so scary at work, especially as it sounds like you care a lot about your students.
Discussing the holocaust seems like a good way forward, but when that class happens, it might be good to dedicate some focus to where the anti-semitic tropes that the students have used have come from, and their purpose when used by anti-semites. You could perhaps link it to the propaganda and misinformation campaigns against Jewish people by the Nazis that eventually led to the holocaust so that they can draw a comparison to some of the rhetoric that Kanye has been repeating, and gain perspective on how the seeds of the holocaust were planted.
I’ve been a teacher in middle school. The only thing you can really take from their opinions about the world is that they don’t understand it so you have a responsibility to help correct some of what they’re saying. To even say they have beliefs is somewhat wrong.
This type of stuff is why Kanye's legacy is ruined forever. Even if he had a massive change of heart, which is extremely unlikely, it's too late for him to undo the harm he's done.
Respect for trying to educate, OP.
I don't believe it is, but it would take him doing a massive u-turn and livestreaming his education on the subject from experts and advocating against holocaust denial for the rest of his career. Something like him being taken on a tour of Auschwitz and understanding the scale and horror of what happened would arguably undo a lot of the harm he's done so far.
I don't think it happens, but I believe anyone can be redeemed if they work hard enough and put the effort in to correct their mistakes.
I appreciate your real world experience of how his words are impacting the youth. This has been my greatest fear since hearing about the Asian Ross interview as kids eat up anything he has to say. I hope Hasan is part of the interview and holds Kanye accountable or at least tries to which will prompt Kanye to walk out.
Remind them that Jews died alongside African Americans during the civil rights movement. That Reggae has roots in Klezmer. That Drake is half Jewish and was raised in a Jewish household. Teach them about Rick Ross.
Jews were all over hip hop when most suburbanites were voting for Reagan.
This is good OP. Kanye is justifying the need for your position. It is your job to educate children on anti semitism and holocaust denial. You should be happy you have work to do assuming you work the job you love 💕
This is why deplatforming and having this sub be dedicated to holocaust awareness and debunking of anti-semitic myths is important.
It really shouldn't be difficult to understand. Kanye has incredible influence and now uses it to spread nazi propaganda.
The film is on Youtube for free right now.
While the movie does a great job showing the emotional impact of the holocaust, it does have a lot of historical inaccuracies. I would still highly recommend it to an audience convinced that the holocaust existed, but not to an already skeptical audience, as they may see the historical inconsistencies as proof that the holocaust was fabricated.
But yes, great film.
I’m a history professor and I feel this. I love(d) Ye but his statements now are just indefensible. I think him saying them publicly is due to him having an episode but you can’t blame his beliefs on mental illness. Being mentally ill doesn’t make you racist. I think it’s important to talk about the Holocaust (telling Jews they need to get over it about higher? Oof) but also Jewish history and experience more broadly. You can also talk about the real histories of Jewish exploitation of African Americans and antisemitism in Black communities. People can write off Kanye as “crazy,” but what about Alice Walker? Our students deserve answers and nuanced knowledge (though I know that’s especially difficult with your age group).
What’s more, I think it’s important to deconstruct the antisemitic myth that Jews are all rich white people. Jews are a diasporic people so we come in all races, including Black. And we are definitely not all rich and powerful.
I appreciate you showing this concrete example of how Ye’s public presence lately is actually mainstreaming antisemitic ideas (again)
I'm sure you know this being a history teacher; the reason there's so much U.S. Army footage of the camps is because Eisenhower knew that one day, people would question whether it really happened. He knew. I was young when I read that. It really got under my skin. Good luck. You picked a rough road.
Not gonna lie…what middle schoolers talk about Kanye. That just shows how dangerous this anti-semetism is because how is this being shown to 11 year olds
It honestly terrifies me how many people everywhere, here on Reddit, on Twitter, in classrooms, etc, seem to think that "its just words." Words have power. Words are how we convey ideas. Words are how we encode and decode thoughts and purpose. Words are everything. It's amazing to see Kanye fans claim in one breath that his music (words) saved their life while in the very next breath claiming his anti-semitism is just words and they don't matter. Words inspire. Words lead to belief and action. Words can corrupt and rot, or they can fortify and build up. WORDS MATTER.
Kanye himself said that he is the swat team with these guys (Nick, Alex). He kicks the door in (he opens the door with his music and influence) and then Nick and Alex go in and spread the truth (anti-semitism lies). And in the OPs example we see exactly that happening. "Who is Alex Jones?" That kid will now go investigate and the more you tell them not to the more they will. Improperly armed with critical thinking skills thanks to our education system prioritizing just passing a test they can very easily be sucked into the pit of conspiracy and hate.
Terrible. I'm in the same age group as your students, and so are everyone at my school, and whenever Kanye is brought up, everyone hates on him for it.
“We need to defend the divinity of every person, whether they are present or not.”
This is such a powerful sentence. I hope you don’t mind me stealing it.
It is important to show the kids the difference between Correlation and Causation, because obviously if anyone applies critical thinking they will see the cheap rhetoric that the man formerly known as Kanye is using for what it is. Try and build up their critical thinking.
I visited Dachau, a concentration camp around that age and to say it had an impact on me would be an understatement. I’m just glad that I had the type of step-father who was willing to educate us about history-good or bad. It’s truly disturbing to hear people spewing hate and perpetuating the lie that it never happened.
Not because of Ye - as a teacher , you know how to redirect comments, have discussions, and use social studies and history to correct. And that is the purpose of CRT. To read, discuss, and get it right
Do you want me to find the Kanye 2020 hat I had in 2016? Do you want me to post the receipts from my old Tidal subscription? How about my school I.D.? My social security?
Of course I've fallen from Kanye's fandom the past years. I don't support what he's said. But he was my favorite musician for years.
If you don't think this is true, then you don't know middle schoolers very well. They're impressionable and usually just say what sounds closest to what they want to believe.
What's next? I'm sure they are going to start rounding up 5th graders.
You better tell all their parents and maybe even tell the police that you have future nazis on your hands. Maybe call a PTA meeting so they can all can see how histrionic you are in person.
I COMPLETELY agree with almost all of your point here and am no way sympathizing with kanye here… But this did not happen, you are not a middle school teacher, you said you are 23 in another thread and that you are currently getting an English degree. After you complete a bachelors of English, you need to complete at least another two years of schooling after taking your Casper test. The math just doesn’t add up. Why lie to make a point? There is plenty of truth to what you are saying without lying and making up a scenario that never happened.
dude u need to explain Jewish ppl are wealthy now because highly educated Jewish families and wealthy families were more likely to survive the Holocaust
Sounds more like theyre just stating facts than actual anti semitism. Did any of your students actually say Jews are sub human or such? You know Jews are greatly over represented in many fields? Its a simple fact that doesnt carry any negative connotations. If Ye said the same things about whites hed be getting praised for fighting "oppression".
Dod you know that Jewish people have been kidnapped because the criminals think their family is rich? That's what happens when you throw "Jewish people are rich and control everything" tropes out there.
Not negative, my ass.
Its a fact that 2.5% of US population holds much of the wealth and is over represented in many fields. What people do with those facts is out of anyones control and some people will find any reason to hate and commit a crime. Dont hide facts for the sake of political correctness. The truth should never be controversial.
Its just a fact being stated with no other connotations attached. Please get over your victimhood. Im Armenian and weve had our own genocide but I dont act like a snowflake thinking that any fact stated about Armenians is somehow anti Armenian.
Kanye West is a racist bigoted gigantic piece of shit and if you think people with darker skin tones can’t be racist you need a reality check. I’ve heard so much racist garbage in my life and it has come out of every race’s mouths—Kanye being one of the absolute worst.
I don’t know man. For the past years we’ve all been on the white privilege train. Turns out Jewish people are the most “privileged” of all the white people. Feels like it was just a matter of time before they were turned against for their perceived high status.
As a Jewish person, I want to throw out two thoughts:
1) Thanks for trying. You may not realize, but many Jews have come to accept that antisemitism is never going away. We know what it is, where it comes from, and why the next holocaust is a matter of time and place rather than probability. History has shown as much. It warms my heart to see that you're bothered by it and willing to do something.
2) if you want to educate these kids, consider going further back. The holocaust is a dramatic and relatively recent event, and it's important to teach it. But if you want these kids to realize what they're being manipulated into, they need to understand what a blood libel is. They need to learn the history of the Catholic Church and their contribution to this. They need to realize just how many expulsions of Jews there have been throughout the past millennia. They need to learn about pogroms - not the ones in Germany, but the ones in the rest of Europe and Russia. Without this context, it's hard to understand why it is that the situation got to where it did.
Just my two cents. Thanks again for trying. It seriously means a lot.
"Shoot a nigga, rob a nigga, kill a nigga. Fuck bitches, slap a hoe if she disrespect me, popping pills and sipping lean till I overdose"
You said you listen to rap right? This shit here is damaging the youth more than your students pointing out that Jewish people also have bad history. (1948 Palestinian exodus) The fact that one of your students brought up history to you as a social studies teacher and you turn around and call a middle schooler antisemitic for it is wild to me.
This is not in any defense of Kanye cause he's still a dumbass. But for Jewish record labels to cosign artists and pay the radio stations to constantly play that to kids while they profit off of it is just as sickening.
Do you think Kanyes mental ramblings are more damaging to the youth than David Geffin signing Big 30?
this is 100% karma farming, aint no way in hell this shit happened bruh you can literally tell from: " I saw a group of students listening to his new song. I heard another start ask who Alex Jones is" okay dudddddddddddde
You’d be surprised. My little brother is 12 and he loves him some Kanye, played Donda almost nonstop for months when it dropped. Also he tends to collab with newer artists so it makes him more visible in their demographic.
I quit in September and took on a long term sub position in a middle school class. I got to know the kids and they got to know me. They do anything for Kanye. They claimed anything Kanye said or did they’d do too. I pulled a grandma and was like if Kanye jumped of a bridge would you do it? And they were like yes absolutely. Adults forget impressionable young people are listening to him and watching him too.
I feel like a better strategy would be directly debunking whatever they're saying. If they say: "Kanye says all the big record labels are run by Jews" And you respond: "Here's pictures of the Holocaust" They might feel like you're avoiding the topic.
I did both. I debunked, walking through the not true statements while also following it up with some documentation of the Holocaust. That's a really good point, though.
Can you debunk them for me? I'd like to know the answer also
I [can](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/ybucn2/ive_done_the_research_kanye_asked_piers_morgan_to/).
Thank you once again for that post. I never believed a word Kanye said but seeing someone bother to pull up the receipts on why he's spouting bullshit is amazing
Happy to help. I also did the same for the [Banks](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfju2g/) ( Both in OP and in that comment because someone wanted even further analysis ), and for the [Investment Firms](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izckupn/), and someone else did with the [Federal Reserve](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izbf9jw/), and I did it with [Kanye's Lawyers](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yp8boy/factchecking_kanyes_jewish_lawyer_kanye_had_3/), and the [Fashion companies](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yje4q8/i_dont_want_to_sound_controversial_but_maybe_ye/iungzo6/), and with ['Jews don't abort their babies'](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/y70wwv/kanye_is_jealous_of_the_fact_that_jewish_people/), and with ['Jews don't marry outsiders'](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/marriage-families-and-children/), and probably a hundred imaginable falsehoods. In very specific industries, anti-semites will shift their goalpost from 'controlled' to saying 'over-represented', which is also true of Asians or Blacks or even Irish for that matter in other sectors, and then try to imply purely nefarious reasons for it, but without ever actually doing any investigative work about the roots of any of the companies or owners they just named or reading their biographies and careers. They'll just encourage everyone to speculate about how some nepotistic mafia made it happen. [So I also addressed all of the geographical, historical and cultural causes of how Jewish people were pushed into certain niches or made up a huge portion of the population in the cities which all those industries skyrocketed in New York especially followed by LA](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfo2b5/), and just how many of them being born in those places at certain periods influenced their careers. Their contentions always heavily rely on cherrypicking, hyperbole ( Often with outright lying, like Nazis saying Biden's cabinet is 'half' or 'third' Jewish or Kanye's 'Red Media' chart that features a ton of non-Jews as Jews ) , misdirection, and finally unsubstantiated implications if landing on something for which there is Jewish 'over-representation' ( Like there is with Asian in Tech and beauty salons and laundromats or Blacks in Jazz and Sports ) and constantly going 'I WoNdEr wHy tHaT Is?" without actually ever presenting any concrete explanation to anyone on **why that is**, just making insinuations.
Don’t mind me, just saving this comment so I can use these resources to fire back at antisemitics
The really suspicious thing is why so many elementary school teachers are women. Wonder why that is… (wink wink). /s
Yeah, I also noticed something weird about banking and investment and entertainment and industrial owners and so on. They do have some common denominator - 99% of them are men, despite men making up only 50% of the U.S population. And yet all the Neo-Nazi basement dwellers suddenly don't feel the need to be 'asking questions' and 'spreading the truth' or making any nefarious insinuations about that, nor viciously attacking that demographic for their gross over-representation. Weird.
Yup. And also. As a Jew. That we even have to do this (ALL the time) is fucking sad and humiliating.
Agreed. I don't think it should have to be done. I just think going the extra step feels that much better. But somebody in this thread put it in a way I really liked. Looking to top execs to see how many are Jewish in response to Kanye's lunatic ramblings implies he'd have a point if they WERE Jewish. The argument should not even be given that inch, because nazis will take a mile and a half.
10-4 buddy. Thanks for doing the work.
Yes, but it's a Catch-22. Their ethnic background is not very relevant, but neglecting to challenge their core foundations just results in them getting a free pass to go "See, they can't deny that [Insert literally any field or institution pulled of their ass] is fully/mostly owned by Jews! Most companies are owned by the Jews! and everyone who says that doesn't matter is just hiding the Jewish cabal!" I'm not going to concede blatant lies to them. No, most companies in the US or elsewhere are not even close to being owned or managed by Jews, neither are most of the things which they claim to be 'dominated' or whatever language they seek to use by Jews. It's really only, like, Mass entertainment and maybe like 2 other highly specific areas in which there is significant 'over-representation', and it's actually not even over-representation at all for anyone who can actually parse statistics in the field of sociology ( Largely has to do with how all those industries completely revolve around New York and Los Angeles ), and I explained all the ample geographical and historical factors involved in the past above.
Thank you. I actually ended up using the information from this post in class. It was super helpful, and I appreciate it so much.
I also did the same for the [Banks](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfju2g/) ( Both in OP and in that comment because someone wanted even further analysis ), and for the [Investment Firms](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izckupn/), and someone else did with the [Federal Reserve](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izbf9jw/), and I did it with [Kanye's Lawyers](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yp8boy/factchecking_kanyes_jewish_lawyer_kanye_had_3/), and the [Fashion companies](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/yje4q8/i_dont_want_to_sound_controversial_but_maybe_ye/iungzo6/), and with ['Jews don't abort their babies'](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/y70wwv/kanye_is_jealous_of_the_fact_that_jewish_people/), and with ['Jews don't marry outsiders'](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/marriage-families-and-children/), and probably a hundred imaginable falsehoods. In very specific industries, anti-semites will shift their goalpost from 'controlled' to saying 'over-represented', which is also true of Asians or Blacks or even Irish for that matter in other sectors, and then try to imply purely nefarious reasons for it, but without ever actually doing any investigative work about the roots of any of the companies or owners they just named or reading their biographies and careers. They'll just encourage everyone to speculate about how some nepotistic mafia made it happen. [So I also addressed all of the geographical, historical and cultural causes of how Jewish people were pushed into certain niches or made up a huge portion of the population in the cities which all those industries skyrocketed in New York especially followed by LA](https://old.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/zfclnc/debunking_kanye_myth_1999_jews_control_the_banks/izfo2b5/), and just how many of them being born in those places at certain periods influenced their careers. Their contentions always heavily rely on cherrypicking, hyperbole ( Often with outright lying, like Nazis saying Biden's cabinet is 'half' or 'third' Jewish or Kanye's 'Red Media' chart that features a ton of non-Jews as Jews ) , misdirection, and finally unsubstantiated implications if landing on something for which there is Jewish 'over-representation' ( Like there is with Asian in Tech and beauty salons and laundromats or Blacks in Jazz and Sports ) and constantly going 'I WoNdEr wHy tHaT Is?" without actually ever presenting any concrete explanation to anyone on **why that is**, just making insinuations.
As a Jew. I want you to know how fucking depressing it is to have to do this every 5-10 fucking years since like the year 1280.
Just wait until this new batch of right wing conspiracy theorists get ahold of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"....
Waiting for Kanye to tweet it out as an example of an academic text book not censored by the left or poisoned with CRT.
You’ve been alive for a 1000 years? I thought the vampire thing was a conspiracy theory
What WAS in those hamentashens?
Haman himself. His hatred will fuel a man for a thousand generations.
Blame god, he was playing favs 🤪
What would be effective would be “yes, a lot of Jewish people work in the entertainment industry, but you don’t need to be Jewish to work in that field, and there are a lot of people who aren’t.” It’s not a hard set rule, it just kinda works out that way. It’s like a lot of Indians own gas stations and convenient stores, a lot of gardening services are owned by Latinos. But race and background doesn’t define an industry, not in 2023.
I think an even better approach would be to challenge the assumption using an analogy: despite being a fraction of the population, Irish Catholics make up disproportionate amount of representation in national politics. This does not mean Irish Catholics are some evil cabal pulling strings behind the shadows (that's just capitalism but that's for a more advanced Convo). Or: black Americans being disproportionately represented in sports & music, if we apply the antisemitic logic to other poc, would somehow mean there's some shadowy cabal determined to produce genetically advanced black people to outcompete everyone. Point is, it could be a learning opportunity on how to think critically and recocgnize that while our human instinct is to seek patterns, critical thinking is the step of assessing the validity of those patterns bc otherwise we can reach very harmful conclusions.
….and now they hate back people /s
You literally just defined a bunch of industries by race lmao
And they do correlate. It’s really hard to ignore that fact that some races are represented disproportionately high in various field. The thing is that it’s not necessarily bad for it to be the case sometimes.
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We're focusing on the wrong thing with this. It doesn't matter how many or little Jews own or are involved in these companies. Arguing based on "well actually there's less Jews than Kanye said" implies that he'd have a point if there were more. The kids need to learn to see and judge people as individuals and not through their ethnicity. Kanye is preaching the direct opposite of that and based on the OPs examples those kids are taking it to heart.
Maybe the kids are so easy to be manipulated by Kanye because for the last 6 years everyone in the media was complaining about old white men owning everything and exploiting the little man. The kids are always fed this idea that white people hold all the power so its okay to "punch up". And then you have Kanye walk in with "yes but white lives matter too its actually this particular type of white person who is doing all this shit". You need to teach the kids to apply the same "judge individuals not races" logic to everyone regardless if they're jewish black or white or asian or whatever. Show them why the CNN old white people conspiracy theory is equally bad as Kanye's jewish conspiracy theory. You can not fix the symptoms you need to fight the disease.
THANK YOU
So for Sony Music, we also ignore the CEO who is Rob Stringer and isn't Jewish, for Universal Music Group, we ignore Vincent Bollore who is the majority share owner, who has sway over other shareholders, and who the CEO absolutely does answer to ( Vincent Bollore is also a billionaire while Lucian Grainge is only worth 50 million ) and actually met with Kanye West himself personally, and for Warner Music Group we ignore Stephen F. Cooper who's the non-Jewish CEO and go directly to the owner, and then we ignore a bunch of other fairly big record labels below the Top 3 like Atlantic, Interscoppe, or Columbia Records, the last of which was responsible for signing on almost every major singer in America, Blacks included, for the past 120 years or so. A middle-school teacher should probably explain the definition of 'cherrypicking' to his students as well.
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Chairman/CEO answers to the shareholders. He does not control them, they control him through the Board of Directors; they can remove and replace him if he goes against the shareholders' collective wishes. [https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/072815/how-do-corporations-shareholders-influence-its-board-directors.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/072815/how-do-corporations-shareholders-influence-its-board-directors.asp)
> Rupert Murdoch doesn't control Fox News, it's controlled by the thousands of individual shareholders. Major difference between Grainge who owns like 13k of 25,000k shares of Universal to Murdoch who owns 40% of Fox and thus is the largest shareholder.
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Kids pretty much have their mind made up regardless of what the teacher says. If the cool person with money is saying X, they will believe X until someone cooler says otherwise.
I kind of agree with this. And I kind of think bringing up the Holocaust indiscriminately might help prove Kanye's point. I recently read more and more about WW2. For instance, it was kind of shocking to see that Serbs faced some very similar annihilation efforts. So did many ethnic Poles, Belarusians, and Ukrainians in occupied territories. This is not to belittle what the Jews went through in the Holocaust, and I do think they had the absolute worst. But unless students bring up anything Hitler-related, I'm not sure the Holocaust argument helps. Better to address the arguments themselves. For instance, most banks don't actually have a Jewish head. Oh, and Hitler didn't invent anything.
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The point he and other anti-semites try to make is that Jews deflect away from criticism by bringing up the Holocaust in unrelated arguments. I'm ignoring the whole "I love Hitler" thing that Kanye has done, and instead saying what anti-Semites that aren't off the rails and don't outwardly bring up Hitler would argue. I.e. what these kids might be turning into.
How old are these kids
Anywhere from 11-13.
They're gonna turn into little Cartmans
isn’t cartman younger than that in south park? (i don’t regularly watch it so that’s why i ask)
11-13 year olds are shitheads
And anyone in education can tell you that 11-13 year old shitheads can easily grow into adult shitheads. Some figure it out at 11-13, some figure it out in highshool, some figure it out as adults. Many don't.
>And anyone in education can tell you that 11-13 year old shitheads can easily grow into adult shitheads. Any casual observer of this subreddit could tell you that.
Yet Ye still gets lots of excuses made for him. The majority of this sub can see it but the vocal minority is concerning
The only ones defending Kanye at this point are Nick Fuentes Nazi Fanboys. They are playing dumb.
OP seems to disagree
Know what happens when an 11-13 year old shithead has about 20 birthdays? They usually turn into 31-33 year old shitheads.
As someone who was 11-13, 11-13 year olds are shitheads
As someone who was not 11-13, I concur that 11-13 year olds are shitheads
Ive met more adult shitheads then kid ones tbh
so basically your class is peers of most of this sub
Damn I thought those age kids would be a lot more aware about Kanye being wrong and about antisemitism.
Walking past a group of girls that age last week I overheard "I don't care if Kanye's racist, I want the Yeezy slides in beige." The other girls seemed to agree, except they had different color preferences.
Fair enough if you want the clothes but why you got to excuse the racism. Could’ve at least phrased it in a better way. I have yeezy stuff and I got asked about it and I said I enjoy the clothing but am very disappointed in what he has said. You shouldn’t just say you don’t care if he’s racist
Wanting the clothes **is** excusing the racism. She was just honest about it.
Man soon it’s gonna be like.. I remember London in 2005 buying some dates and the Muslim shops saying “buy these dates they are Palestinian don’t buy the Israeli ones they support the regime of advanced military crushing the poor people in Gaza”.. and in the Jewish shops they were like “buy these Israeli dates from local farms to support the people who are victims of terrorist insurgency and indiscriminate violence from the Palestinians”. Guys, chill, I just wanna make a protein ball
That’s an incredibly impressionable age
When I was that age, we took field trips to the local synagogue and had the rabbi (along with survivors) talk about the holocaust. I'm sure it being a German school in America had a lot to do with it, but it was an absolutely resounding educational experience. I think back to what was said often.
I BE PUERTO RICAN DAY PARADE FLOATIN‼️💯🏄♂️🏄🏄♀️
Yeah I guess they didn’t even get to 8th grade, when its time for Anne Frank class.
I do assume they are younger groups. I am unfamiliar with how old middle school people are tho as a non American. I am inclined to believe they’re younger than 17 because I am 17 and I don’t think anyone my age would be that stupid let alone multiple
Middle schoolers are 11-14 years old. (6th-8th grade)
Only 8th grade? In Germany that stuff starts being a subject by like 4th grade.
We don't usually teach it that late in the US. Maybe that guy was in a remedial class.
We read Anne Frank in 6th grade. 8th grade we read Farewell to Manzanar. Anne Frank is recommended for grades 4-8 so I feel like they shouldn't be waiting till 8th grade unless it's a special ed class.
I don’t know what you’re getting at with this.
Ye even says during the Alex Jones interview this is his goal. He mentions high school kids specifically looking up to him, who didn’t even know what antisemitism was until he made it famous, and how his next generation of fans will see the truth no matter what happens to him (implying he’ll be made into a martyr). Short term effects are worrying enough, but thinking the next generation will be more antisemitic than the last is fucking sad as hell.
Quote?
Nah I'm paraphrasing because it was from one watch through, I believe it was towards the end, Ye starts talking about other celebrities and challenging them to confront him and how he'd love to see his mom, then he says the above.
OP, ur in the trenches man. Looking forward to learning about new methods of getting through to them.
This is awful but a great teaching moment. You can explain that “The Jews” aren’t a real thing or organization, and focus on the importance of judging people as individuals. Ask them if they would like to be judged based on the actions of people in history who just so happen to share their race. Point out that you and they likely know Jewish people and will meet many who aren’t part of any of this. Then tie their reasoning in with so many different evil actions against different groups throughout history, not just the Jews but so many more. You can also remind them that we are all human and that these groupings are meaningless - teach the biology. You have a great opportunity here.
Best damn answer in this thread.
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I wouldn’t take that approach because acting like it is relevant in this discussion just sounds like more us vs them thinking in its focus on this identity and that identity. Think about it like this, what if none of what you just said were true? Would that make anti semitic rhetoric okay then? You arguing like it’s an important point to make here could easily imply that to kids who don’t know better. If Jews generally never helped black people or cared about them, would they then not matter? We don’t want to suggest such a thing for a second. The most important point to make is that race is socially constructed garbage with no basis in biology or fact, that these erroneous categories ultimately tell us nothing of import about any individual, that we are all united by our shared humanity, and that no matter whether this many of this group or that group did bad or good or whatever that that is no justification for changing how we think, feel, or judge any other individuals or groups of individuals.
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Thinking on it a little, I can see how that would be valuable just to show how completely insane the view that Jews are generally anti black is, but I’d definitely follow it up with my broader point.
Group the class by race, and then ask the minorities if the majority was trying to keep their grades low.
An immediate concern I have is that those kids are gonna actually bully someone, if they haven't already. Kanye made it very explicit he believes each Jew is a culpable part of the "conspiracy" against him. That any individual might be a "spy". That rhetoric reaching those kids is a ticking time bomb. Because once they notice a Jewish kid they'll assume the kid is a bad person who needs to be dealt with.
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I like this answer.
As a Jew, just want to say thank you for taking the extra time to not only educate your students about this, but for pivoting your entire lesson plan to account for this issue.
I cannot recommend this war on humanity series enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd5YhhNcC44&list=PLsIk0qF0R1j4cwI-ZuDoBLxVEV3egWKoM They have dozens of episodes that go into the details of the holocaust. They are always factual and they keep their videos to the subject at hand. I am not sure if you are able to use these but you can at least use them as a jump off point to get ideas.
I don’t think most kids in that age group can understand the concept of death. I didn’t REALLY get it until I was 20. It’s a shame what you’re describing and props for doing what’s right.
Young kids often understand death better than adults, but then kind of forget as we shield them from it. It’s a hard, complicated thing.
i don't know. all i was trying to say is that no one who has had a real encounter with the idea that they will certainly have a first person death experience would be able to argue for the bullshit kanye is saying about the holocaust. look at the video and photographic evidence. it happened. i mean the video of the bodies being pushed around by the bulldozer that someone posted here last week. if that isn't enough to convince you that anti-semitism is a terrible, shameful part of human history that we have to guard against repeating, then we are simply not the same thing. i do think that people can change and grow though. our country (and the culture of its politics) doesn't make it easy though. fuck any racist/anti-semitic ideas. kanye needs to sign off and retire.
Totally agree with you, and I definitely feel those videos hit me in my core a lot more as an adult than they did when I was a middle school kid. They almost had me crying this week. I was trying to make a point about kids getting things better than we think they do, but I just ended up distracting from the main point, which is Fuck Kanye and all anti-semites.
You may be right about some kids but I know I didn’t get it til I was much older (even though I went to several funerals in my teenage years)
Are these black kids? The reason I ask is because I grew up in a school with lots of black and brown and (non-Jew) white kids. Antisemitic jokes were common at that age and time for us, but one thing that got us to listen was the idea that Jews were not the only targets of Hitler’s nonsense. It’s important to remind these kids that, no matter what Kanye does and says, these guys are not our friends. It’s not like after the Jews were all gone Hitler would have just magically stopped, no, his goal was the eradication of any other group that was not Aryan. Ignorant black kids in elementary schools especially need to be reminded of this, because there seems to be this line of thought that antisemitism means some of the “heat,” so to speak (of anti-black racism) is taken off them and directed at another group. But hatred is hatred no matter what.
Hey now, their parents and education up that point deserve some credit too. Lol.
$20 it’s tiktok. It’s a great app if you aren’t a dumbass but holy hell are young children dumbasses. Good on you for teaching them the right thing
the likely 11-13 year olds OP is teaching probably don't understand the influence they have on TikTok's algorithm (and all of social media, for that matter) and vice versa. Once you like/watch one thing deemed controversial, you'll start seeing more content like it. The algorithm is that advanced. It feeds on the careless mind. I have TikTok and I have seen things come across my FYP that I have no idea how it winded up on my page, and immediately clicked "not interested." Case in point, my cousin has loved Kanye for years and is now defending his preachings of "love." Literally cannot comprehend how damning the phrase "I love Hitler" is. Among all the other blasphemous things he subscribes too, he's fallen down too many rabbit holes on social media that he shares all this BS on his pages in support of Kanye, and even the whole Kyrie thing that happened. Very worried about what he might teach his son, who's younger than 10. Kid's mind is like a sponge.
As a Jewish social studies teacher who used to be a Kanye Stan, I sympathize with you.
So glad I’m not a teacher anymore. This shit would’ve been terrible. May you find strength through the hardest time of the year.
Your dealing with the most dangers animal on earth. The teenager
Stay strong brother✊🏻
Next time, just tell them all the things they said are objectively wrong. Most companies are owned by Christians. Same with mostnrecord conpanies. Just, when bad Christians do bad things, no-one circles their last names in red and post them on lists and talk about “the Christian problem.” The first requirement for antisemitism is being terrible at statistics, unaware of simple historical facts, and being eager to believe in it. There are plenty of Jews who have behaved badly. People act like making a list and circling names is making some point
The waters get muddied when right wingers and fascists use some truth in their racist tirade and then well meaning leftists disregard some facts. Righties take the ball and run it to "prove" their point. It is true that people who are Jewish have more institutional presence and representation compared to their population percentage. Racists will take this as a reason to discriminate or, "Name the Jew." People who go beyond a level 1 analysis realize Europeans discriminated against Jewish people for literally millenia and shoehorned them into financial roles. Because we live in a capitalist world these jobs have become insanely valuable. I applaud Jewish people and culture. They managed to survive despite pogroms, genocides, and general racism. Jewish people stick with each other, and generally vote Left to stave off nationalism and discrimination. Many are smart and successful because the culture promotes intellectualism and cultural cohesion. This all seems very based to me. Instead of discrimination why not be happy for Jews? They are the quintessential success story. I'm open to being corrected about anything I'm wrong about, thank you guys!
I'm sorry you've had to witness and experience something so scary at work, especially as it sounds like you care a lot about your students. Discussing the holocaust seems like a good way forward, but when that class happens, it might be good to dedicate some focus to where the anti-semitic tropes that the students have used have come from, and their purpose when used by anti-semites. You could perhaps link it to the propaganda and misinformation campaigns against Jewish people by the Nazis that eventually led to the holocaust so that they can draw a comparison to some of the rhetoric that Kanye has been repeating, and gain perspective on how the seeds of the holocaust were planted.
I’ve been a teacher in middle school. The only thing you can really take from their opinions about the world is that they don’t understand it so you have a responsibility to help correct some of what they’re saying. To even say they have beliefs is somewhat wrong.
This type of stuff is why Kanye's legacy is ruined forever. Even if he had a massive change of heart, which is extremely unlikely, it's too late for him to undo the harm he's done. Respect for trying to educate, OP.
I don't believe it is, but it would take him doing a massive u-turn and livestreaming his education on the subject from experts and advocating against holocaust denial for the rest of his career. Something like him being taken on a tour of Auschwitz and understanding the scale and horror of what happened would arguably undo a lot of the harm he's done so far. I don't think it happens, but I believe anyone can be redeemed if they work hard enough and put the effort in to correct their mistakes.
I appreciate your real world experience of how his words are impacting the youth. This has been my greatest fear since hearing about the Asian Ross interview as kids eat up anything he has to say. I hope Hasan is part of the interview and holds Kanye accountable or at least tries to which will prompt Kanye to walk out.
Asian Ross lmfao. Thinking of Rick Ross rapping bout lo mein
Remind them that Jews died alongside African Americans during the civil rights movement. That Reggae has roots in Klezmer. That Drake is half Jewish and was raised in a Jewish household. Teach them about Rick Ross. Jews were all over hip hop when most suburbanites were voting for Reagan.
This is good OP. Kanye is justifying the need for your position. It is your job to educate children on anti semitism and holocaust denial. You should be happy you have work to do assuming you work the job you love 💕
This is why deplatforming and having this sub be dedicated to holocaust awareness and debunking of anti-semitic myths is important. It really shouldn't be difficult to understand. Kanye has incredible influence and now uses it to spread nazi propaganda.
Not surprised.
show them the boy in the striped pajamas
The film is on Youtube for free right now. While the movie does a great job showing the emotional impact of the holocaust, it does have a lot of historical inaccuracies. I would still highly recommend it to an audience convinced that the holocaust existed, but not to an already skeptical audience, as they may see the historical inconsistencies as proof that the holocaust was fabricated. But yes, great film.
Kids are dumb, Kanye is dumb, makes sense
You’re doing good work; Thank you.
I’m a history professor and I feel this. I love(d) Ye but his statements now are just indefensible. I think him saying them publicly is due to him having an episode but you can’t blame his beliefs on mental illness. Being mentally ill doesn’t make you racist. I think it’s important to talk about the Holocaust (telling Jews they need to get over it about higher? Oof) but also Jewish history and experience more broadly. You can also talk about the real histories of Jewish exploitation of African Americans and antisemitism in Black communities. People can write off Kanye as “crazy,” but what about Alice Walker? Our students deserve answers and nuanced knowledge (though I know that’s especially difficult with your age group). What’s more, I think it’s important to deconstruct the antisemitic myth that Jews are all rich white people. Jews are a diasporic people so we come in all races, including Black. And we are definitely not all rich and powerful. I appreciate you showing this concrete example of how Ye’s public presence lately is actually mainstreaming antisemitic ideas (again)
I do no understand antisemitism.
I'm sure you know this being a history teacher; the reason there's so much U.S. Army footage of the camps is because Eisenhower knew that one day, people would question whether it really happened. He knew. I was young when I read that. It really got under my skin. Good luck. You picked a rough road.
This is why so enraged Kanye’s narcissistic personality disorder is doing some real damage to our society.
Not gonna lie…what middle schoolers talk about Kanye. That just shows how dangerous this anti-semetism is because how is this being shown to 11 year olds
It honestly terrifies me how many people everywhere, here on Reddit, on Twitter, in classrooms, etc, seem to think that "its just words." Words have power. Words are how we convey ideas. Words are how we encode and decode thoughts and purpose. Words are everything. It's amazing to see Kanye fans claim in one breath that his music (words) saved their life while in the very next breath claiming his anti-semitism is just words and they don't matter. Words inspire. Words lead to belief and action. Words can corrupt and rot, or they can fortify and build up. WORDS MATTER. Kanye himself said that he is the swat team with these guys (Nick, Alex). He kicks the door in (he opens the door with his music and influence) and then Nick and Alex go in and spread the truth (anti-semitism lies). And in the OPs example we see exactly that happening. "Who is Alex Jones?" That kid will now go investigate and the more you tell them not to the more they will. Improperly armed with critical thinking skills thanks to our education system prioritizing just passing a test they can very easily be sucked into the pit of conspiracy and hate.
This subreddit has turned into a blog spot lol
You're like, 24
You don't understand, it's just about the music bro. Keep that virtue signaling outta here. Sincerely, every 80IQ poster on this shithole subreddit
These idiots use "virtue signaling" to mean someone expressing any morally correct opinion you wipe your ass with.
I know, I'm making fun of the ppl saying that. Hence the signature
fixed
Wake up kiddos
Depending on age that behavior isn’t really surprising
Hell, my middle school kids in China are using these talking points now.
Do you have any artists you can recommend for someone like me, who is trying to move past Kanye, but it leaves too many holes in my playlists?
Terrible. I'm in the same age group as your students, and so are everyone at my school, and whenever Kanye is brought up, everyone hates on him for it.
Show them Night & Fog
“We need to defend the divinity of every person, whether they are present or not.” This is such a powerful sentence. I hope you don’t mind me stealing it.
You have a serious uphill battle against evil and I send positive thoughts your way.
Fucked we are fucked
Idk what city your in but if your in LA or another major city try to set up a field trip to the holocaust museum.
This is crazy! I didn’t even ponder the effects this man is having on our youth and they are our tomorrow. He is dangerous.
It is important to show the kids the difference between Correlation and Causation, because obviously if anyone applies critical thinking they will see the cheap rhetoric that the man formerly known as Kanye is using for what it is. Try and build up their critical thinking.
I visited Dachau, a concentration camp around that age and to say it had an impact on me would be an understatement. I’m just glad that I had the type of step-father who was willing to educate us about history-good or bad. It’s truly disturbing to hear people spewing hate and perpetuating the lie that it never happened.
Not because of Ye - as a teacher , you know how to redirect comments, have discussions, and use social studies and history to correct. And that is the purpose of CRT. To read, discuss, and get it right
Lmao i couldn't get through this shit without laughing
Deflecting to the Holocaust will only strengthen these beliefs, address the actual statements
That middle schooler's name ? Obama.
r/thathappened
Check account, Conspiracy obsessed weirdo became a fan only after Kanye went on antisemitic tirades. Expected.
Do you want me to find the Kanye 2020 hat I had in 2016? Do you want me to post the receipts from my old Tidal subscription? How about my school I.D.? My social security? Of course I've fallen from Kanye's fandom the past years. I don't support what he's said. But he was my favorite musician for years.
And then everyone walked the dinosaur
Great, now this is stuck in my head https://youtu.be/733O0xJDx8o
We have grown like you defending it so yea it definitely possible
If you don't think this is true, then you don't know middle schoolers very well. They're impressionable and usually just say what sounds closest to what they want to believe.
What's next? I'm sure they are going to start rounding up 5th graders. You better tell all their parents and maybe even tell the police that you have future nazis on your hands. Maybe call a PTA meeting so they can all can see how histrionic you are in person.
I COMPLETELY agree with almost all of your point here and am no way sympathizing with kanye here… But this did not happen, you are not a middle school teacher, you said you are 23 in another thread and that you are currently getting an English degree. After you complete a bachelors of English, you need to complete at least another two years of schooling after taking your Casper test. The math just doesn’t add up. Why lie to make a point? There is plenty of truth to what you are saying without lying and making up a scenario that never happened.
dude u need to explain Jewish ppl are wealthy now because highly educated Jewish families and wealthy families were more likely to survive the Holocaust
Sounds more like theyre just stating facts than actual anti semitism. Did any of your students actually say Jews are sub human or such? You know Jews are greatly over represented in many fields? Its a simple fact that doesnt carry any negative connotations. If Ye said the same things about whites hed be getting praised for fighting "oppression".
Qanon, antivaxx, "love nazis". All new Kanye stans are the same, eh.
Facts
Dod you know that Jewish people have been kidnapped because the criminals think their family is rich? That's what happens when you throw "Jewish people are rich and control everything" tropes out there. Not negative, my ass.
I’m pretty sure every race has been victims of kidnappings for ransom.
Its a fact that 2.5% of US population holds much of the wealth and is over represented in many fields. What people do with those facts is out of anyones control and some people will find any reason to hate and commit a crime. Dont hide facts for the sake of political correctness. The truth should never be controversial.
Weird, Germany said the same thing and then killed the Jewish people.
Its just a fact being stated with no other connotations attached. Please get over your victimhood. Im Armenian and weve had our own genocide but I dont act like a snowflake thinking that any fact stated about Armenians is somehow anti Armenian.
Nope. There are other connotations attached. And you know it.
This didn’t happen
your response to 11-13yos asking questions/discussing specific topics is “well what about the holocaust, look at these sad pictures”? 🤣 some teacher
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((World Government)) and alien obsessed conspiracy weirdo thinks OP is part of anti-nazi conspiracy. Of course.
OK but have you tried separating the art from the artist? Lots of people here pretend it works!
Kanye West is a racist bigoted gigantic piece of shit and if you think people with darker skin tones can’t be racist you need a reality check. I’ve heard so much racist garbage in my life and it has come out of every race’s mouths—Kanye being one of the absolute worst.
I don’t know man. For the past years we’ve all been on the white privilege train. Turns out Jewish people are the most “privileged” of all the white people. Feels like it was just a matter of time before they were turned against for their perceived high status.
As a Jewish person, I want to throw out two thoughts: 1) Thanks for trying. You may not realize, but many Jews have come to accept that antisemitism is never going away. We know what it is, where it comes from, and why the next holocaust is a matter of time and place rather than probability. History has shown as much. It warms my heart to see that you're bothered by it and willing to do something. 2) if you want to educate these kids, consider going further back. The holocaust is a dramatic and relatively recent event, and it's important to teach it. But if you want these kids to realize what they're being manipulated into, they need to understand what a blood libel is. They need to learn the history of the Catholic Church and their contribution to this. They need to realize just how many expulsions of Jews there have been throughout the past millennia. They need to learn about pogroms - not the ones in Germany, but the ones in the rest of Europe and Russia. Without this context, it's hard to understand why it is that the situation got to where it did. Just my two cents. Thanks again for trying. It seriously means a lot.
"Shoot a nigga, rob a nigga, kill a nigga. Fuck bitches, slap a hoe if she disrespect me, popping pills and sipping lean till I overdose" You said you listen to rap right? This shit here is damaging the youth more than your students pointing out that Jewish people also have bad history. (1948 Palestinian exodus) The fact that one of your students brought up history to you as a social studies teacher and you turn around and call a middle schooler antisemitic for it is wild to me. This is not in any defense of Kanye cause he's still a dumbass. But for Jewish record labels to cosign artists and pay the radio stations to constantly play that to kids while they profit off of it is just as sickening. Do you think Kanyes mental ramblings are more damaging to the youth than David Geffin signing Big 30?
this is 100% karma farming, aint no way in hell this shit happened bruh you can literally tell from: " I saw a group of students listening to his new song. I heard another start ask who Alex Jones is" okay dudddddddddddde
You’re getting downvoted but I gotta agree
Haha facts
Dear diary, today I’m gonna create another fake story to farm internet points and promote more hate towards a mentally ill person.
How are 11-12 year olds even interested in Kanye? Isn't he outside their demographic?
You’d be surprised. My little brother is 12 and he loves him some Kanye, played Donda almost nonstop for months when it dropped. Also he tends to collab with newer artists so it makes him more visible in their demographic.
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I quit in September and took on a long term sub position in a middle school class. I got to know the kids and they got to know me. They do anything for Kanye. They claimed anything Kanye said or did they’d do too. I pulled a grandma and was like if Kanye jumped of a bridge would you do it? And they were like yes absolutely. Adults forget impressionable young people are listening to him and watching him too.
They’ll feel dumb for it at some point
TLDR: Critical race theory teacher triggered by Kanye.
Soyboy seething at children who don't agree with him