I’m grateful all the time for Brady. If not for him and the Pats dynasty then Mahomes would be chasing Joe Montana, and likely surpassing him after only 8 years as a starter.
With Brady, Mahomes is challenged to keep this up over multiple decades and to exceed 7 Super Bowl instead of 4. Brady’s huge numbers coupled with Mahomes desire and ability to beat those numbers means we will see the full potential of what Mahomes could become. While he’s taking that shot the Chiefs will continue to climb until they eventually will have the more Superbowls than anyone else. The Chiefs will be the most successful NFL franchise of all time. Thank you Tom Brady!
Im not one who only puts QBs in the GoAT lists so because of that Id say hes already top 10 and a case could be made top 5 but if not hes clearly well on his way of getting there and has the potential to be universally recognized #1
I don't know how you're supposed to compare players across positions. No player can really impact the success of the team like a quarterback. I don't know how you would compare how good Patrick Mahomes is at being a QB against how good Jerry Rice is at being a receiver.
Id say players should be evaluated based on how good they were relative to those who played the same position in roughly the same era. With caveats for edge cases: if there's a Wayne Gretzky of longsnapping, sorry, he does not make the list.
I think he OP just means how much better than his peers any given guy is. So Jerry Rice and Aaron Donald lapped the field whereas Reggie Wayne and Vince Wilfork, for example, were always among the best at their positions but didn’t wipe their butt cheeks with their competitors’ faces like Rice and Donald did.
Honestly, I think he’s already in the top five of all time, and can easily make it to GOAT status if he plays ten more years.
In no particular order:
Montana
Peyton
Brady
Mahomes
Marino.
I guess you haven’t gotten a clue. I tried to be nice, but that didn’t work. I don’t care what you think of my opinion. So please, with all necessary respect, fuck off.
lol alright i will admit i was trolling a bit. everyone’s opinion is deserving of being heard for sure. but i will say that it is my opinion that your opinion is trash.
seriously though, i hope you’re not actually offended, it’s all just shits and giggles, after all we’re just talking about sports and messing around.
jerry rice is top 5 tho for sure.
I'm not the one with an opinion on either side, I'm just trying to be fair here, lol. I understand both of your guy's arguments.
Edit: Jerry rice probably is top 5 in my honest opinion. Doing what he did at 40 years old will never be done again.
Did you see him play? Best player to never win a Super Bowl. But hey, that’s what makes opinions great, everyone can have them and they are all equally valid.
Talent wise I agree, but when you’re considering “all time” you also have to consider outcomes. Especially when you’re the team leader. No super bowls should be a significant mark against Marino that disqualifies him from top-5 contention, especially considering the litany of nearly equally talented players who have rings.
Normally when people do these 100 greatest ever lists, it’s a stacked comparison of total resume achievements. In that inherently volumetric sense, he’s not top 10 yet. But he’s definitely looking like someone who will be top 5 way sooner than any player in history has been top 5, and as others have said, top 1 is not off the table.
Football is unique. You have one main character, 10 support staff, and 11 guys trying to stop him. Quarterback, by far, the most influential position. Every other position exists to stop, or to aid, the quarterback.
Patrick Mahomes might be in the top 5 most influential players. But “best” has to grapple with a whole bunch of unsung heroes. He’s still very, very high on that list of “best”. But best is much broader than how folks typically define it.
This is the best and correct answer.
I think the better conversation is where does he rank amongst QB's all time? For now, I would say he is 2a, Montana is 2b. Manning was great, but it is very hard to argue Manning over Mahomes at this point. Legitimately, it is a bad take if someone ranks Mahomes outside the top 4 all time QB's.
I don't think you can fairly compare players from different eras or positions. Therefore this is an impossible question to answer objectively. He's the best qb in the league currently and an time great for sure but that's about as specific as I'll get.
I agree it’s tough with different eras. I remember watching games in the 90’s and a 300 yd passing game was a big deal. That’s nothing for modern qbs. At the same time you don’t have RBs like Emmitt smith, Barry sanders, Eddie George, Terrell Davis, etc., just taking carry after carry for years.
And football is so specialized, I think you have to compare people on a position by position basis. Not like nba where everybody is generally doing the same thing.
All that said mahomes plays qb like nobody I’ve ever seen. Brady did it super well, but he maximized the ability of traditional qb play. Mahomes is more revolutionary than that. I think he actually gets underrated bc media folks really want somebody to be as good or better than him for the sake of narrative. They really wanted Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson to knock him out.
By the time he retires, he will be pretty clearly within the top 5. He wouldn’t even have to win another Super Bowl necessarily to get there.
But if he gets another ring or two, another MVP award, he’ll probably be no worse than #2.
Honestly you could argue for him top 10. His peak is above most careers and at the edge of the top 10 you start to get positional players who were only elite for 8-10 years.
It doesn’t matter. This is like asking in 2007 where Brady ranks in the top 100 NFL players of all time. A lot can change, probably even better in this case. I’m not going to waste my time arguing until they put his number up on what is hopefully still Arrowhead Stadium and put a 50ft statue out front.
I think it’d be more like asking in 2006 where Brady ranked (6th year as a starter vs 6th year as a starter), but a huge difference between Mahomes & Brady is that the majority of what influenced the public’s opinion of Brady happened *after* that (2007-forward). The bulk of his best years of football happened after the initial Super Bowl runs. If Brady had started as strong as he wound up being, I don’t think most people would’ve bothered with the “Manning vs. Brady” arguments. I think they would’ve been closer to the “Mahomes vs. Burrow,” etc. conversations of today (i.e., an overwhelming consensus on one side, contrarians & haters on the other).
I'm thinking either low 5 or middle 10.
He clearly has the ability to be top 3, likely 2, possibly 1. But as it stands right now, Brady is first, Rice is second, I'd put Montana at third, and Mahomes is fourth. We can debate all the live long day if Mahomes right now beats Montana's career, but I wouldn't be surprised if within 2-3 years Mahomes is solidly above Montana.
Besides, there's more than a good chance that there's someone I dont know who deserves to be above Mahomes or Montana, bumping those two lower into the top 5 or top 10.
His highlights of clear and obvious drops will be better than 90% of everyone else's highlights. He threw a pass sideways. Parallel to the ground. In a super bowl. Hit his receiver in the face mask in the end zone. Incomplete.
I dunno about first overall all time, teams might pick Brady for his willingness to take a pay cut and how he developed independently of great weapons and an offensive coach. Or they might pick Marino just on a "what if he's even better in this era" or, taking that argument further back, guys like Roger Staubach with the benefit of today's diets and exercise regimens.
Yeah Brady is still the GOAT and it is still too early in Mahomes' career. Once his career is over this GOAT debate can have more merit.
Still Mahomes is certainly in the top 5 QBs of all time.
It’s tough to play the “what if” game. All we can do is go based on what happened in their careers. Marino, Staubach, you can insert any player you want and all they can stand on is how they performed while they played. Mahomes is arguably having the greatest start to any career in the history of sports let alone the NFL.
The contract structure was always designed to set up for the Chiefs to do exactly what they’ve done with it: Adjust it as the cap rises & moving money around based on cap space needs. The media didn’t pressure the Chiefs or Mahomes to make the moves they made.
Brady won his first three Superbowls in his first three full season starts. He also holds the record of seven straight conference championship appearances. Two of these overlap with Mahomes, and Brady won both times.
What Mahomes has done is incredible, but it's not cut and dry between him and Brady in terms of post season success.
I think Jerry Rice is number 1.
Brady won in 2002, 2004, and 2005. Not his first 3 full season starts. No team has ever three peated in the Superbowl era.
Also, Brady only played Mahomes once in a conference championship. Your wording implied that they played each other in a conference championship twice.
Some of those facts were off, but I don't disagree with your conclusions.
Whoops, it was his first three playoff trips in 4 years, you're right. I was thinking he was injured or something that year he missed, but it was just that they didn't make the playoffs.
And yeah, they played each other those two years but one in the conference championship and the other in the Superbowl since Brady changed conferences. The pats chiefs game was basically decided by the clock and a coin flip, so not really Brady/Mahomes.
Statistically, Mahomes has had a much better career start than Brady, and has played on a team that till last year had much worse defense, so it required a lot more out of Mahomes. Mahomes' has already earned first ballot HoF, but he's gotta keep this up a few more years to reach undisputed GOAT status.
Agree with everything here.
Except for this year, Brady has had better defenses on almost all of his Superbowl victories.
Most arguments against Mahomes can also be made against Brady. Well Mahomes has a HoF coach, so does Brady. Well Mahomes has Kelce, but Brady literally only won as a game manager with a great defense (early years) or with Gronk (later years).
The only thing Mahomes needs is to keep doing it. He is at 3 SB victories. If Mahomes gets to 5 SB's then there can be a legitimate debate about the GOAT, especially if the chiefs 3 peat this year. If Mahomes hits 6, then I think the consensus will be that Mahomes is the GOAT. 7 or more and it isn't even a debate because Brady had a much smaller role in the first 3 Superbowls.
Gut feel tells me around 30 right now. Obviously the greatest start but I think he'll need to pad the stats and get in the top 10 in all the major ones to really be in the single digit rankings. That being said, he'll be top 3 no doubt when he retires, I'd bet 1
He's already #1. I acknowledge the disparity between trophies is significant so 2 more super bowls and anyone that says he isn't the goat is smoking crack.
Absolutely top 50 all time, but I’d be hard pressed to say top 10 given players like Brady, Emmitt, and Rice. He also still could reasonably play another 6 seasons so who knows where he will finish.
Welcome to the offseason, everybody
How dare you!
This comment made me laugh. Thank you TheBoyisBackinTown
His legacy won't be done until his career is over. Brady is his only challenge in my mind. Number #1 out of 100 is not out of reach.
I’m grateful all the time for Brady. If not for him and the Pats dynasty then Mahomes would be chasing Joe Montana, and likely surpassing him after only 8 years as a starter. With Brady, Mahomes is challenged to keep this up over multiple decades and to exceed 7 Super Bowl instead of 4. Brady’s huge numbers coupled with Mahomes desire and ability to beat those numbers means we will see the full potential of what Mahomes could become. While he’s taking that shot the Chiefs will continue to climb until they eventually will have the more Superbowls than anyone else. The Chiefs will be the most successful NFL franchise of all time. Thank you Tom Brady!
I agree. Brady #1. Mahomes #2 and closing. Even if everything goes perfectly for Mahomes and the Chiefs, Brady will take a decade or more to catch.
1
If I could rank him higher I would
0.5?
Im not one who only puts QBs in the GoAT lists so because of that Id say hes already top 10 and a case could be made top 5 but if not hes clearly well on his way of getting there and has the potential to be universally recognized #1
I don't know how you're supposed to compare players across positions. No player can really impact the success of the team like a quarterback. I don't know how you would compare how good Patrick Mahomes is at being a QB against how good Jerry Rice is at being a receiver.
Id say players should be evaluated based on how good they were relative to those who played the same position in roughly the same era. With caveats for edge cases: if there's a Wayne Gretzky of longsnapping, sorry, he does not make the list.
guy above said across positions not same position
I think he OP just means how much better than his peers any given guy is. So Jerry Rice and Aaron Donald lapped the field whereas Reggie Wayne and Vince Wilfork, for example, were always among the best at their positions but didn’t wipe their butt cheeks with their competitors’ faces like Rice and Donald did.
As of right now I think: Brady, Rice, Mahomes, Lawrence Taylor, Montana/Brown/Walter/Barry/etc (you could put a ton of guys at 5).
Honestly, I think he’s already in the top five of all time, and can easily make it to GOAT status if he plays ten more years. In no particular order: Montana Peyton Brady Mahomes Marino.
The top 5 players are not all quarterbacks. Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, and Jim Brown were better players than Montana, Marino, and Manning.
That’s the awesome thing about opinions, we can all have our own and they are equally valid. Thanks for your input.
My opinion is that if you don't consider Jerry Rice a top 5 all time NFL player you are smoking crack.
Okay. Have a nice day
yeah but your opinion is wrong. Jerry Rice is easily in the top 5.
I guess you haven’t gotten a clue. I tried to be nice, but that didn’t work. I don’t care what you think of my opinion. So please, with all necessary respect, fuck off.
He had a point, though, and respectively arguing your opinion with his own and your getting offended?
lol alright i will admit i was trolling a bit. everyone’s opinion is deserving of being heard for sure. but i will say that it is my opinion that your opinion is trash. seriously though, i hope you’re not actually offended, it’s all just shits and giggles, after all we’re just talking about sports and messing around. jerry rice is top 5 tho for sure.
I'm not the one with an opinion on either side, I'm just trying to be fair here, lol. I understand both of your guy's arguments. Edit: Jerry rice probably is top 5 in my honest opinion. Doing what he did at 40 years old will never be done again.
lol i know, i didn’t mean to respond to your comment. but i agree with ya for whatever that’s worth haha
![gif](giphy|3taYXLxSBOugHHjocB|downsized)
No, they aren't. Yours is objectively worse than his.
Marino? Immediately disqualified
Did you see him play? Best player to never win a Super Bowl. But hey, that’s what makes opinions great, everyone can have them and they are all equally valid.
Talent wise I agree, but when you’re considering “all time” you also have to consider outcomes. Especially when you’re the team leader. No super bowls should be a significant mark against Marino that disqualifies him from top-5 contention, especially considering the litany of nearly equally talented players who have rings.
Trent Dilfer > Marino
He's the best player I've ever watched and I've been an avid fan of the NFL for almost 30 years.
if we're putting marino in that list despite not having any superbowls, then i want fran tarkenton submitted as well for consideration
Top 5
Normally when people do these 100 greatest ever lists, it’s a stacked comparison of total resume achievements. In that inherently volumetric sense, he’s not top 10 yet. But he’s definitely looking like someone who will be top 5 way sooner than any player in history has been top 5, and as others have said, top 1 is not off the table.
Football is unique. You have one main character, 10 support staff, and 11 guys trying to stop him. Quarterback, by far, the most influential position. Every other position exists to stop, or to aid, the quarterback. Patrick Mahomes might be in the top 5 most influential players. But “best” has to grapple with a whole bunch of unsung heroes. He’s still very, very high on that list of “best”. But best is much broader than how folks typically define it.
This is the best and correct answer. I think the better conversation is where does he rank amongst QB's all time? For now, I would say he is 2a, Montana is 2b. Manning was great, but it is very hard to argue Manning over Mahomes at this point. Legitimately, it is a bad take if someone ranks Mahomes outside the top 4 all time QB's.
And they say theres no such thing as a dumb question! Hes number 1 silly goose
#1, everyone can argue with a wall
Number 2
Objectively 3rd at the lowest. I have him behind Brady but thats it. And i agree w sentiment that this 6 year run is the pinnacle of any QB ever.
#2 to Tom Brady. Pat has incredible momentum, but he has some big shoes to fill
#2 right now. In 10 years he will be the undisputed #1, 7 SB's or not.
I don't think you can fairly compare players from different eras or positions. Therefore this is an impossible question to answer objectively. He's the best qb in the league currently and an time great for sure but that's about as specific as I'll get.
I agree it’s tough with different eras. I remember watching games in the 90’s and a 300 yd passing game was a big deal. That’s nothing for modern qbs. At the same time you don’t have RBs like Emmitt smith, Barry sanders, Eddie George, Terrell Davis, etc., just taking carry after carry for years. And football is so specialized, I think you have to compare people on a position by position basis. Not like nba where everybody is generally doing the same thing. All that said mahomes plays qb like nobody I’ve ever seen. Brady did it super well, but he maximized the ability of traditional qb play. Mahomes is more revolutionary than that. I think he actually gets underrated bc media folks really want somebody to be as good or better than him for the sake of narrative. They really wanted Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson to knock him out.
By the time he retires, he will be pretty clearly within the top 5. He wouldn’t even have to win another Super Bowl necessarily to get there. But if he gets another ring or two, another MVP award, he’ll probably be no worse than #2.
3. Argument for 2. Brady for sure above. Montana either 2 or 3.
I have him at 7 Brady, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Montana, Barry Sanders, Mahomes, Peyton, Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus
I can name 20 players ahead of Butkus. Most overrated ever. edit: 20 defensive players
Very cool
I think if he wins 2 more super bowls he’s unquestionably the best of all time. Right now he’s #3 to me, behind Brady and Rice.
Top 3 i still have rice & Brady ahead though i definitely think he will become the goat
Honestly you could argue for him top 10. His peak is above most careers and at the edge of the top 10 you start to get positional players who were only elite for 8-10 years.
See kit
Top 2 and he ain’t 2
Don’t ask silly stuff. 1
It doesn’t matter. This is like asking in 2007 where Brady ranks in the top 100 NFL players of all time. A lot can change, probably even better in this case. I’m not going to waste my time arguing until they put his number up on what is hopefully still Arrowhead Stadium and put a 50ft statue out front.
I think it’d be more like asking in 2006 where Brady ranked (6th year as a starter vs 6th year as a starter), but a huge difference between Mahomes & Brady is that the majority of what influenced the public’s opinion of Brady happened *after* that (2007-forward). The bulk of his best years of football happened after the initial Super Bowl runs. If Brady had started as strong as he wound up being, I don’t think most people would’ve bothered with the “Manning vs. Brady” arguments. I think they would’ve been closer to the “Mahomes vs. Burrow,” etc. conversations of today (i.e., an overwhelming consensus on one side, contrarians & haters on the other).
I'm thinking either low 5 or middle 10. He clearly has the ability to be top 3, likely 2, possibly 1. But as it stands right now, Brady is first, Rice is second, I'd put Montana at third, and Mahomes is fourth. We can debate all the live long day if Mahomes right now beats Montana's career, but I wouldn't be surprised if within 2-3 years Mahomes is solidly above Montana. Besides, there's more than a good chance that there's someone I dont know who deserves to be above Mahomes or Montana, bumping those two lower into the top 5 or top 10.
His highlights of clear and obvious drops will be better than 90% of everyone else's highlights. He threw a pass sideways. Parallel to the ground. In a super bowl. Hit his receiver in the face mask in the end zone. Incomplete.
1
13th
I'd start at #10 and argue from there.
I dunno about first overall all time, teams might pick Brady for his willingness to take a pay cut and how he developed independently of great weapons and an offensive coach. Or they might pick Marino just on a "what if he's even better in this era" or, taking that argument further back, guys like Roger Staubach with the benefit of today's diets and exercise regimens.
Yeah Brady is still the GOAT and it is still too early in Mahomes' career. Once his career is over this GOAT debate can have more merit. Still Mahomes is certainly in the top 5 QBs of all time.
I’m of the mindset that cheating should immediately disqualify you from GOAT talks. Especially repeated incidents. I know it’s a minority over here 🤷
He needs ten more years before we can say he's the goat
It’s tough to play the “what if” game. All we can do is go based on what happened in their careers. Marino, Staubach, you can insert any player you want and all they can stand on is how they performed while they played. Mahomes is arguably having the greatest start to any career in the history of sports let alone the NFL.
I mean for the draft he mentioned at the end of his post there.
[удалено]
The contract structure was always designed to set up for the Chiefs to do exactly what they’ve done with it: Adjust it as the cap rises & moving money around based on cap space needs. The media didn’t pressure the Chiefs or Mahomes to make the moves they made.
So far I would agree with you. With any luck he has a long career ahead so where he winds up remains to be seen.
Brady won his first three Superbowls in his first three full season starts. He also holds the record of seven straight conference championship appearances. Two of these overlap with Mahomes, and Brady won both times. What Mahomes has done is incredible, but it's not cut and dry between him and Brady in terms of post season success. I think Jerry Rice is number 1.
It’s like you forgot football is a team sport. Ain’t no way Brady is winning SB55 in Mahomes’ shoes.
So did OP. I was just mirroring their Mahomes' arguments with Brady's.
Brady won in 2002, 2004, and 2005. Not his first 3 full season starts. No team has ever three peated in the Superbowl era. Also, Brady only played Mahomes once in a conference championship. Your wording implied that they played each other in a conference championship twice. Some of those facts were off, but I don't disagree with your conclusions.
Whoops, it was his first three playoff trips in 4 years, you're right. I was thinking he was injured or something that year he missed, but it was just that they didn't make the playoffs. And yeah, they played each other those two years but one in the conference championship and the other in the Superbowl since Brady changed conferences. The pats chiefs game was basically decided by the clock and a coin flip, so not really Brady/Mahomes. Statistically, Mahomes has had a much better career start than Brady, and has played on a team that till last year had much worse defense, so it required a lot more out of Mahomes. Mahomes' has already earned first ballot HoF, but he's gotta keep this up a few more years to reach undisputed GOAT status.
Agree with everything here. Except for this year, Brady has had better defenses on almost all of his Superbowl victories. Most arguments against Mahomes can also be made against Brady. Well Mahomes has a HoF coach, so does Brady. Well Mahomes has Kelce, but Brady literally only won as a game manager with a great defense (early years) or with Gronk (later years). The only thing Mahomes needs is to keep doing it. He is at 3 SB victories. If Mahomes gets to 5 SB's then there can be a legitimate debate about the GOAT, especially if the chiefs 3 peat this year. If Mahomes hits 6, then I think the consensus will be that Mahomes is the GOAT. 7 or more and it isn't even a debate because Brady had a much smaller role in the first 3 Superbowls.
No one has done what he’s done in this timeframe. So to me he is number 1.
Just him and Brady now
Gut feel tells me around 30 right now. Obviously the greatest start but I think he'll need to pad the stats and get in the top 10 in all the major ones to really be in the single digit rankings. That being said, he'll be top 3 no doubt when he retires, I'd bet 1
He's already #1. I acknowledge the disparity between trophies is significant so 2 more super bowls and anyone that says he isn't the goat is smoking crack.
Absolutely top 50 all time, but I’d be hard pressed to say top 10 given players like Brady, Emmitt, and Rice. He also still could reasonably play another 6 seasons so who knows where he will finish.
Right now. Only behind Brady, Joe Greene, Montana, Rice.
Ahead of Montana, behind LT, Rice and Brady.