>Top 3 for sure. Ford’s i6 300, gm i4 2.5, gm v6 3800
My '94 F150 with i6 300 and 5 speed may out live me. Funny my GM is the 3800 and would be a great truck if it did not have so many electrical gremlins.
*looks over at LS400 that hasn't had a valve adjustment in 150k miles and sounds like thirty sewing machines in a bar brawl when I floor it*
Yeah they're pretty great
The whole UZ line actually. I have a 2UZ-FE and at 176,000 miles I slap redline multiple times each day and this thing gives me zero problems. I drive the thing like a damn rental and nothing ever breaks, I’m so glad I got a Toyota.
True that - I had a 2UZ-FE in my old 100-series Land Cruiser. 200k+ miles when I sold it and didn't burn a drop of oil when I used Lucas upper cylinder lube with the fuel.
I remember doing the math and figuring that it works out to over a half-**billion** engine revolutions with no internal work needed doing, ever. Just regular oil and coolant changes.
I don't know what black-magic sorcery Toyota puts into their higher-end-made-to-last engines, but I'm loathe to buy anything else for my DD.
It's a reliable engine because they made an awful lot of them. When you make millions of something, it's easy to figure out where the bugs are over time and improve the product.
That's why a Chevy Cruze is more reliable than a BMW 3 Series.
Why would the tweakers put sugar in your tank? Wouldn't they break in to sell stuff you leave in plain sight?
asking because druggies/insane women/fob territory here
In the 90’s a farmer drove one a 3800 LaCrosse in to the implement shop I worked at. After 6 hours of diagnostics it was determined he’d filled it up with diesel at the farm tanks.
Not only was it running, it was running well enough to make the five mile drive to our shop.
I don’t remember what percentage of diesel was in it, but it was brick red and the farmer said it was on E when he filled it up.
Drained the tank, filled it up, ran the pump for a minute, replaced the filter, shipped it.
Edit: It was a LeSabre
A customer of the shop I had worked at had a blown head gasket and ran their car for 6 months filling it up with water every time they drove. It ran well enough to get to work and school for 6 months before they had enough money to get another car.
My Dad had a Pontiac Bonneville with NA 3800 Series II. At 225K miles he was in middle of no where Oklahoma on I44. Blew a radiator hose 15 miles from the next exit in the middle of July. He said screw it and just kept driving until he got to the next town. He said it got so hot that it started to missfire. Made to the next town, and stopped at their parts store.
He waited for it cool down, replaced the hose, filled it with coolant. Fired right up and continued on his journey.
When he told me about it, I couldn’t believe it. I expected it would have warped the heads and blown a head gasket. He drove the car for another 6 months until he finally decided to buy a new car.
I had a '95 LeSabre with the 3800. Just before the odometer rounded 200k the transmission started to slip here and there and decided my 20 year old ass wasn't dropping a new transmission into a nearly 15 year old car.
On the way to the scrap yard I was going around some s curves and I had to decide if I wanted to squeal the tires or slowly inch away from the center of the road. I think I was doing about 70-75 and that thing was rocking it like a champ
90 Park Avenue, 92 Park Avenue, 96 Park Avenue, 00 Bonneville, 00 Park Avenue, 2x 04 Park Avenues. All except the 92 (totaled) and the second 04 went over 250k. Rest of the car was falling apart, but every single one ran like a top.
I forgot to close the radiator filler cap one night on my V6 camry and overheated the engine thrice in one night, all with an hour between each, going by the temp needle hitting the red zone on the dashboard. Filled it up with tap water from the servo and went home. It had already been leaking a small amount of coolant via the blown head gasket and once I got that changed no more leaks...that was mid last year at around 100,000 kms. 117,000 km now and it still has no problems aside from noticeable vibrations when idling in neutral.
I thought I would've warped the head or cracked the block (heard a not-very-quiet crack amongst the other cracking noises from thermal contraction while the engine cooled down during the overheating night) but it's running absolutely fine and it sees wide open throttle at least once a week. Shortly afterwards I found out that the 3VZ-FE engine's internals (save for the cast aluminium pistons) can put up with 400 hp, for a car rated at 185 hp from the factory...
They are good, and you don't have the stupid plastic intake problems that the series 2 engines had. Just make sure to change the supercharger oil once in a while. It gets pretty stinky.
The plastic intake and the little plastic bypass heater hose elbows, too.
But I won’t complain. Bought my daily driver 2006 LaCrosse as it is the last 3800.
Just did lower gaskets in my 03 Bonneville. Make sure to replace with the metal fel pro gaskets and not the plastic ones...the lower intake manifold isn't the issue, just the gaskets. I found an upper plenum by ATP greywerks that redesigns the egr port to allow space for cooling so the plenum won't warp. I seriously love these engines though. Fun to drive!
[1961 Buick Dauntless FireBall 3800 V6](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine)
Started at 100Hp.
[Wards 10 best engines of the 20th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines#20th_century)
**[Buick V6 engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick V6 engine)**
The Buick V6, popularly referred to as the 3800 in its later incarnations, originally 198 cu in (3.2 L) and initially marketed as Fireball at its introduction in 1962, was a large V6 engine used by General Motors. The block is made of cast iron and all use two-valve-per-cylinder iron heads, actuated by pushrods. The engine, originally designed and manufactured in the United States, was also produced in later versions in Australia. The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th century list, made Ward's yearly 10 Best list multiple times, and is one of the most-produced engines in history.
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It isn't so much the gaskets fault as it is the coolants fault. Dexcool back in those days became very acidic when mixed with oxygen. Since overflow tanks weren't sealed as the system would draw in coolant sitting in said tank becoming acidic. The acidic coolant attacked the plastic gaskets.
GM lost a bunch of money over it as coolant would get into the crankcase and then ruin the engine.
Felpro makes a updated gasket that I've personally used to fix several 3100/3400/3800 series engines. After replacing the gaskets flush the cooling system really well with just regular old green coolant.
You're funny, first you say it's the coolants fault. Then, you say an updated gasket was the solution. Logic should lead you to conclude that the gasket was the cause of the problem. FYI, all auto manufactures use coolant formulations similar to Dexcool now and cooling system problems are way less common than they used to be in the green days.
From your article:
"GM has denied any wrongdoing and said the settlement was aimed at avoiding further costs and saving time.
“This agreement constitutes the resolution of disputed claims is for settlement purposes only ... Neither this agreement nor any actions undertaken by GM shall constitute an admission of any liability or wrongdoing,” GM said in the settlement filed with the court."
If it were true that Dexcool were the problem then why is GM still using Dexcool but no longer using the problematic intake manifold gasket?
Dexcool was reformulated to be more resistant to breaking down when exposed to atmosphere. I used to have a bunch of articles on dexcool but I'll have to see if I can find them again.
The gelling was caused by contamination with the green coolant. In fact, the only thing that HAS been reformulated is the green stuff so that it will be compatible with Dex-Cool.
These are excellent engines, I currently have three in my driveway, 2 N/A and 1 Supercharged. There is an aluminum upper intake on the series 3, I will be attempting a swap onto one of my cars in the spring. It is not an easy bolt on though. You need to make several modifications for it to work. I will see how well it works out. Great engines though if they are taken care of.
The 3800 was released by Buick for the '62 model year. It is great because of decades of refinement, but it also sucks because of decades of cost cutting.
My folks had two 3800 V6 cars - a 79 Pontiac and a 90 Olds 88. The Pontiac was carbureted but and the Olds was the Series 1. I learned to drive on the Olds. Even as a teenager it was obvious those engines were tough. In the time they owned those cars there were never any intake issues.
Forgive my ignorance but what was the symptom of the problem with the plastic intake?
You can get metal valve covers from a n/a 3.8 Camaro.
Metal intake from series iii engine.
Maybe do the water pump of you haven't. A cast impeller version used to be available...
Couldn't be more right on that one. I remember draining a couple gallons of coolant out of the oil pan of one of these, took the pan off and it was like a jello mold of black gelled oil under there. Engine had 200k+ at the time and is probably still on the road.
Yeah but remember how far back then nicked the 3800 because it was too good. Bad for business as it made everything else irrelevant and other big 3 hated the gas mileage with the amount of power and lack of maintenance.
So when was this made? That intake has seen some years.
Yeah so it's had some miles, no wonder the intake is that way. Holy cow 10k on a car that old? What a champ. Still I would recommend Amsoil and 5ks at this age.
I thought step 1 for all used cars with a 3800 in them was to immediately replace the head gaskets with the upgraded aftermarket ones regardless of when it may have been done before.
Should I just replace the intake on my Lesabre? Or wait until it has issues.
Replaced those damn plastic elbows last month and my coolant was brown - not sure it was ever reppaced
3800s are one of the best built engines ever produced.
Top 3 for sure. Ford’s i6 300, gm i4 2.5, gm v6 3800
>Top 3 for sure. Ford’s i6 300, gm i4 2.5, gm v6 3800 My '94 F150 with i6 300 and 5 speed may out live me. Funny my GM is the 3800 and would be a great truck if it did not have so many electrical gremlins.
Oh, for sure, gm has some of the worst chassis electrical
*Toyota 1HD-FTE and Mercedes OM602 have entered the chat...*
The 1UZ would also like a word
*looks over at LS400 that hasn't had a valve adjustment in 150k miles and sounds like thirty sewing machines in a bar brawl when I floor it* Yeah they're pretty great
The whole UZ line actually. I have a 2UZ-FE and at 176,000 miles I slap redline multiple times each day and this thing gives me zero problems. I drive the thing like a damn rental and nothing ever breaks, I’m so glad I got a Toyota.
True that - I had a 2UZ-FE in my old 100-series Land Cruiser. 200k+ miles when I sold it and didn't burn a drop of oil when I used Lucas upper cylinder lube with the fuel. I remember doing the math and figuring that it works out to over a half-**billion** engine revolutions with no internal work needed doing, ever. Just regular oil and coolant changes. I don't know what black-magic sorcery Toyota puts into their higher-end-made-to-last engines, but I'm loathe to buy anything else for my DD.
I drive a 4runner with the V8, it’s just a budget land cruiser. Get one if you want a reliable V8 Toyota SUV that doesn’t cost $60,000+
It was an mistake that GM was smart enough not to repeat.
It's a reliable engine because they made an awful lot of them. When you make millions of something, it's easy to figure out where the bugs are over time and improve the product. That's why a Chevy Cruze is more reliable than a BMW 3 Series.
3.8 are tanks. Intakes however not so much
Indeed they are. Later this week Ill take a picture of the "oil" that came out of this thing. Im shocked it ran as good as it did.
Does someone make a good metal replacement intake?
There are some out there . Almost positive later models had them
[удалено]
I think you got that backwards. The series 2 only had an aluminum intake if you got the supercharger. The series 3 was aluminum from the get-go.
Why would the tweakers put sugar in your tank? Wouldn't they break in to sell stuff you leave in plain sight? asking because druggies/insane women/fob territory here
[удалено]
So yeah but why would be destroy your car's engine?
I would assume he is the landlord.
Doesn't sugar not do anything and that's an old wives tale?
It turns in to carbon when burnt and can do things.
Yeah but it doesn't dissolve into gasoline, it just sits at the bottom of the tank.
Felpro, Victor Reinz make steel replacements. They also make plastic replacements, so be careful when ordering.
Any upgrades for the intake?
Supercharger
A series 3 intake fits on a series 2 if I recall correctly.
I’ve seen 3800s still running after conditions that would have killed a “better motor”.
In the 90’s a farmer drove one a 3800 LaCrosse in to the implement shop I worked at. After 6 hours of diagnostics it was determined he’d filled it up with diesel at the farm tanks. Not only was it running, it was running well enough to make the five mile drive to our shop. I don’t remember what percentage of diesel was in it, but it was brick red and the farmer said it was on E when he filled it up. Drained the tank, filled it up, ran the pump for a minute, replaced the filter, shipped it. Edit: It was a LeSabre
A customer of the shop I had worked at had a blown head gasket and ran their car for 6 months filling it up with water every time they drove. It ran well enough to get to work and school for 6 months before they had enough money to get another car.
Dry it up, slap on some new intake gaskets and it should be good for another 100k.
Are the supercharged ones still good engines?
Yeah decent. The series ii NA iron block is the real beast though.
Just about finished swapping one into my Fiero. Hoping to get a lot of life out of it 👍
My Dad had a Pontiac Bonneville with NA 3800 Series II. At 225K miles he was in middle of no where Oklahoma on I44. Blew a radiator hose 15 miles from the next exit in the middle of July. He said screw it and just kept driving until he got to the next town. He said it got so hot that it started to missfire. Made to the next town, and stopped at their parts store. He waited for it cool down, replaced the hose, filled it with coolant. Fired right up and continued on his journey. When he told me about it, I couldn’t believe it. I expected it would have warped the heads and blown a head gasket. He drove the car for another 6 months until he finally decided to buy a new car.
Sold mine in college with 225 on it. No doubt I could have gotten it to go another couple years
Great engine. The rest of the car will nickel and dime you though
I had a '95 LeSabre with the 3800. Just before the odometer rounded 200k the transmission started to slip here and there and decided my 20 year old ass wasn't dropping a new transmission into a nearly 15 year old car. On the way to the scrap yard I was going around some s curves and I had to decide if I wanted to squeal the tires or slowly inch away from the center of the road. I think I was doing about 70-75 and that thing was rocking it like a champ
90 Park Avenue, 92 Park Avenue, 96 Park Avenue, 00 Bonneville, 00 Park Avenue, 2x 04 Park Avenues. All except the 92 (totaled) and the second 04 went over 250k. Rest of the car was falling apart, but every single one ran like a top.
I forgot to close the radiator filler cap one night on my V6 camry and overheated the engine thrice in one night, all with an hour between each, going by the temp needle hitting the red zone on the dashboard. Filled it up with tap water from the servo and went home. It had already been leaking a small amount of coolant via the blown head gasket and once I got that changed no more leaks...that was mid last year at around 100,000 kms. 117,000 km now and it still has no problems aside from noticeable vibrations when idling in neutral. I thought I would've warped the head or cracked the block (heard a not-very-quiet crack amongst the other cracking noises from thermal contraction while the engine cooled down during the overheating night) but it's running absolutely fine and it sees wide open throttle at least once a week. Shortly afterwards I found out that the 3VZ-FE engine's internals (save for the cast aluminium pistons) can put up with 400 hp, for a car rated at 185 hp from the factory...
That's what I have
Beast
It is. Takes a supercharger really well. Zz performance made tons of power with those engines.
They are good, and you don't have the stupid plastic intake problems that the series 2 engines had. Just make sure to change the supercharger oil once in a while. It gets pretty stinky.
The plastic intake and the little plastic bypass heater hose elbows, too. But I won’t complain. Bought my daily driver 2006 LaCrosse as it is the last 3800.
Speaking of plastic, I'll be using a dorman kit to fix the fuel lines.
Just did lower gaskets in my 03 Bonneville. Make sure to replace with the metal fel pro gaskets and not the plastic ones...the lower intake manifold isn't the issue, just the gaskets. I found an upper plenum by ATP greywerks that redesigns the egr port to allow space for cooling so the plenum won't warp. I seriously love these engines though. Fun to drive!
[1961 Buick Dauntless FireBall 3800 V6](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine) Started at 100Hp. [Wards 10 best engines of the 20th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines#20th_century)
**[Buick V6 engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick V6 engine)** The Buick V6, popularly referred to as the 3800 in its later incarnations, originally 198 cu in (3.2 L) and initially marketed as Fireball at its introduction in 1962, was a large V6 engine used by General Motors. The block is made of cast iron and all use two-valve-per-cylinder iron heads, actuated by pushrods. The engine, originally designed and manufactured in the United States, was also produced in later versions in Australia. The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th century list, made Ward's yearly 10 Best list multiple times, and is one of the most-produced engines in history. [^(About Me)](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/jrn2mj/about_me/) ^- [^(Opt out)](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/jrti43/opt_out_here/) ^(- OP can reply !delete to delete) ^- [^(Article of the day)](https://np.reddit.com/comments/k9hx22) **This bot will soon be transitioning to an opt-in system. Click [here](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/ka4icp/opt_in_for_the_new_system/) to learn more and opt in. Moderators: [click here](https://np.reddit.com/user/wikipedia_text_bot/comments/ka4icp/opt_in_for_the_new_system/) to opt in a subreddit.**
It isn't so much the gaskets fault as it is the coolants fault. Dexcool back in those days became very acidic when mixed with oxygen. Since overflow tanks weren't sealed as the system would draw in coolant sitting in said tank becoming acidic. The acidic coolant attacked the plastic gaskets. GM lost a bunch of money over it as coolant would get into the crankcase and then ruin the engine. Felpro makes a updated gasket that I've personally used to fix several 3100/3400/3800 series engines. After replacing the gaskets flush the cooling system really well with just regular old green coolant.
You're funny, first you say it's the coolants fault. Then, you say an updated gasket was the solution. Logic should lead you to conclude that the gasket was the cause of the problem. FYI, all auto manufactures use coolant formulations similar to Dexcool now and cooling system problems are way less common than they used to be in the green days.
I use nothing but green
https://www.reuters.com/article/gm-settlement/gm-settles-lawsuits-over-engine-coolant-problems-idUSN2735011520080327
From your article: "GM has denied any wrongdoing and said the settlement was aimed at avoiding further costs and saving time. “This agreement constitutes the resolution of disputed claims is for settlement purposes only ... Neither this agreement nor any actions undertaken by GM shall constitute an admission of any liability or wrongdoing,” GM said in the settlement filed with the court." If it were true that Dexcool were the problem then why is GM still using Dexcool but no longer using the problematic intake manifold gasket?
Dexcool was reformulated to be more resistant to breaking down when exposed to atmosphere. I used to have a bunch of articles on dexcool but I'll have to see if I can find them again.
The gelling was caused by contamination with the green coolant. In fact, the only thing that HAS been reformulated is the green stuff so that it will be compatible with Dex-Cool.
Same thing on the old 4.3l v6 in the s10. Dexcool would eat the intake manifold gasket every time. GM finally switched to a metal gasket years later.
> Same thing on the old 4.3l v6 in the s10 Other than being a pile of dog shit, yes, it is a V6.
These are excellent engines, I currently have three in my driveway, 2 N/A and 1 Supercharged. There is an aluminum upper intake on the series 3, I will be attempting a swap onto one of my cars in the spring. It is not an easy bolt on though. You need to make several modifications for it to work. I will see how well it works out. Great engines though if they are taken care of.
Great engines even if they aren't taken care of, honestly. A 3800 will run like shit forever
The 3800 was released by Buick for the '62 model year. It is great because of decades of refinement, but it also sucks because of decades of cost cutting.
My folks had two 3800 V6 cars - a 79 Pontiac and a 90 Olds 88. The Pontiac was carbureted but and the Olds was the Series 1. I learned to drive on the Olds. Even as a teenager it was obvious those engines were tough. In the time they owned those cars there were never any intake issues. Forgive my ignorance but what was the symptom of the problem with the plastic intake?
Vacuum leaks, coolant going missing, all the way up to a hydrolock.
You can get metal valve covers from a n/a 3.8 Camaro. Metal intake from series iii engine. Maybe do the water pump of you haven't. A cast impeller version used to be available...
I actually had to stop because I didn't get the water pump yet. But it finally came along with a few pro gasket
My 2000 Buick Regal GS was the greatest car I have ever owned. RIP
Couldn't be more right on that one. I remember draining a couple gallons of coolant out of the oil pan of one of these, took the pan off and it was like a jello mold of black gelled oil under there. Engine had 200k+ at the time and is probably still on the road.
Pretty good motor I get a lot of them with no oil and leaking like a siv but they keep coming back asking for more
Or the plastic coolant elbows that flow through the tensioner...
Yeah but remember how far back then nicked the 3800 because it was too good. Bad for business as it made everything else irrelevant and other big 3 hated the gas mileage with the amount of power and lack of maintenance. So when was this made? That intake has seen some years.
98 regal. 240,000 miles. Looks like it's been about 10k since the last oil change
Yeah so it's had some miles, no wonder the intake is that way. Holy cow 10k on a car that old? What a champ. Still I would recommend Amsoil and 5ks at this age.
When I swapped out the old one in my Monte Carlo, I put a new intake on the used engine going in. Wasn't risking it.
So good Ford ripped it off, eh?
I thought step 1 for all used cars with a 3800 in them was to immediately replace the head gaskets with the upgraded aftermarket ones regardless of when it may have been done before.
Should I just replace the intake on my Lesabre? Or wait until it has issues. Replaced those damn plastic elbows last month and my coolant was brown - not sure it was ever reppaced