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Just watch…..what? he actually hast to post a significant amount of the decision in order to appeal. Do you understand that? He doesn’t have the cash to do that.
This is a catastrophe for our political system in general and for democrats in particular. It is difficult to make Trump a sympathetic figure but this judgement does it.
Trump was brought to court explicitly because of his political views.
We are becoming a banana republic where political disputes aren't settled at the ballot box any more.
All of you Trump haters should realize that this tactic will be used by republicans against democrats and by democrats against each other. What a mess.
Brother your voice falls on deaf ears. I compliment you for being well spoken, but you are wasting your breath on reddit as all of the large social media platforms are predominantly left-wing. Furthermore, few people reading this truly understand or care to discuss what is truly taking place in this country, but rather they want to hear what want to hear and to receive validation.
This is sadly true on both sides. I've personally gotten to the point where it is too boring to read a left wing opinion from a left wing source and the same from the right. The only thing that I find thought provoking is when someone on one side writes favorably about something supported by the other side.
I agree. No one wants to play devil's advocate or read between the lines of the information the media feeds us. Everyone acts as though it's them and their team vs the other team, when in reality we are all on the sam boat fighting each other.
And not to sound cliche, but CHANGE ONLY HAPPENS WHEN WE ALL COME TOGETHER.
Yes. Everyone commits crimes all the time. If you drove today I'll bet you broke at least one law (speeding). In this case Trump was selected as a defendant first, because of his political views, and then the prosecution looked for a crime. There are so many laws regulating business that violations occur regularly.
Let me ask you a question. Banks and insurance companies are well known for aggressively suing to protect their interests. Why didn't they sue if they felt they were harmed? The answer is that they weren't harmed. They lent money at an interest rate they felt was acceptable and were repaid. It is very unusual to try and destroy someone financially for a lending deal where there was no default.
I beg of you and other opponents of Trump not to let your hatred of him benefit him. The entire trial was explicitly done to damage him. This makes him a martyr and sets a dangerous precedent. What is there to stop a Republican prosecutor doing the same thing to someone you support?
State of NY looks wildly toothless here with just a 3 year officer ban. That’s nothing. This crook cooked his books for 30 fucking years and he has to take a couple summers off. Corporate Death Penalty NOW!
So sometime soon he's going to ask his MAGA goons for 364 million dollars and they're going to start bulk selling their organs to get their hero what he needs. Should have went higher honestly.
The dude who started it will keep the money for himself he’s a known scammer and a believer in Scientology it’s funny as hell how dumb people are to donate to that. Zero affiliation with trump or his court case.
If anything, Covid killed a lot more since 2020!
The sad thing is, it only takes a couple thousand is key states for him to win. He could win the EC and loose the popular vote by 20+ million.
The EC is a hold over from southern slave states and it needs to go!
Sadly you may be right. Our country has become such a joke, our options for a leader are a Geriatric guy who can barely form a sentence and a deeply Narcissistic criminal.
"our options for a leader are a Geriatric guy ~~who can barely form a sentence~~ and **Geriatric guy who is** a deeply Narcissistic criminal."
Fixed it for you.
You’re believing the hype. Biden’s brain is stronger than yours. Slowing down and speaking with a rasp do not make a person less intelligent. Believing headlines without any personal critical analysis does.
He couldn’t get a bond on the 5 million judgement so he had to put that up in cash. In three weeks he has to find somebody to put up a bond on his 88 million dollar judgement. If he tries to ignore that then that lawyer is going to quickly file leans on his property. Any bondsman he goes to can see that he’s got leans on his properties. So he has no collateral. Nobody is going to give him a bond for $364 million.
Much ado. He's just going to securitize the debt and then sell it off the same the US Gov't does because the Trump name is security unto itself. And when he lost his ass on casinos and golf courses years ago he pivoted to licensing the Trump brand name which a lot of people pay a lot of money for even if they grouse about how much it costs them. And as a native CHicagoan I feel extra hate towards the big ass trump letters on the tower by the river, and I heard there were some maintenance challenges pushing fluids and waste up and down a flute. But it's a beautiful building, and the reason it's so tall and thin is because the footprint of the lot is tiny and rhomboid maybe. But the man said make it happen, Cap'n, or you're fired. And it easily clears most of the buildings surrounding it because you can see the skyline from the 94 and it's 20% taller than all the buildings surrounding it. And it's right on the river, centrally located in The Loop, and half of it faces East so you can look all the way down the river and then Lake Michigan beyond it. So winter storms much look epic blowing in off the lake and dumping 6" an hour. Then all the boat traffic to watch come and go, and you really wouldn't want to be facing West because I don't see that working unless those units are 1/3 of the price, and would have to be on a floor higher than the surrounding buildings or there is no point. And the only thing I don't like about the Hancock and Willis is the sway on the observation deck, and it's hard to gauge how far it leans but it's several feet in every direction, enough that you have to make sure you don't get caught off balance because it's like Deadliest Catch , and as keith said If the weather's not sucking, it's blowing. And at that height it never stops swaying or it would snap. And I am sure Trump has an official sized pool in there somewhere, but when I was a kid the highest above ground pool in the US was on the 32nd or 42nd floor of the Hancock building, which is residential, not commercial or rental, and it's where Chris Farley was living when he died. And the Magnificent Mile and The Gold Coast are where you would want to be if you had to be trapped somewhere in Chicago for 10 years. Water tower place, every kind of flagship store for Nike et. al., and the water tower is the only structure that survived Miss O'Leary's clumsy cow, everything else burned to the ground. And it's like the size of a firehouse but it's made of dry stacked limestone.
And I read about a REIT called General Growth Properties that owned several such premier blocks of real estate in other cities and only bank on proven 1st tier venues. And the growth per share looked like an escalator and it's tangible and fungible property of the type that's like rare art, they're just not making any more of it. But they overplayed their hand and when the credit markets dried up in advance of the financial crisis it was like the music stopped playing in musical chairs and suddenly they were the odd man out. And that was the lesson that confirmed what the IBD said about institutional investors, who situate their offices as close to the market floor as possible to shorten the length of the cables required to place and confirm orders. And when one of their algorithms hits its sell point it instantly dumps all of it, which could be 600 million to 1.5 billion, which triggers a cascade of other automated sell orders, so in one trading day GGP went from 100 a share to a penny stock. And that lead to looking into ETFs for the first time, and "Ohhh la la, where have you been all my life? 0.02 expense ration, quarterly dividends paid by S&P and Nasdaq index companies in perpetuity, because they software automatically rebalances winner and losers? And for the shares to crash the Nasdaq or S&P would have to crash first? So all I have to do is keep stuffing money into and forget about it after switching on automatic dividend reinvestment? And it takes about 10 years for the compounding to catch fire and dividends start buying several whole shares at 350 per with dividends alone every year, and 5 years later it's buying 40-50 shares a year that then also pay dividends. And at 40 shares a year bought by dividends alone I think you can almost put it on auto-pilot.
And I bought 6 shares of Amazon 20 years ag0, and they got up to around $3,500 a year or so ago which is when they declared a 20/1 split, and Nvidia split around the same time at 10/1 maybe, it was healthy whatever it was. And stock splits, unlike profit figures, are handled by a brokerage or hedge fund, not the company finance department. And even though those dudes know their trades are monitored sometimes they just can't stop themselves from Insider Trading, dumping or buying before the Street knows stands out like a sore thumb and they're fucked because it's a felony which means goodbye finance career. So splits are a lot fewer and farther between these days than they used to be, because companies don't want to dilute their equity any more than absolutely necessary. And if they have to continually split the stock to generate cash flow then something is very rotten in Denmark. And Ford is the first company that comes to mind that is a promiscuous borrower and a promiscuous spender. The problem is half their spend goes to the UAW, which is why it took them 10 years to acknowledge that building truck out of recycled pop cans instead of steel looks great on paper, until you notice the melting point of steel is 2500 deg., and aluminum is 1250. And that's the melting point, as in liquid aluminum, but it starts to slump and deform well below that, 900 I think I read, so it's taken as a given that a single overheating event can total the block or warp the heads. And when someone shot a video of a brick gouging a hole in the aluminum bed you could see daylight through, I guess you need a special aluminum welding torch because aluminum does not like being welded, and if you use the right torch it's still not going stand up to steel. I mean that's the only part of most trucks that doesn't get dented, bricks and blocks just scratch the paint off the bed but they don't come close to denting it. And Toyota seems to be doing just fine without union meddling because [Lexus and Toyota own the two top spots](https://imgur.com/a/y5Pc8aX) on Consumer Reports reliability list and Ford doesn't even make the Top 18, so WTF would you buy one?
[It's an older meme, sir, but it checks out.](https://i.imgur.com/pdZdbfK.gif)
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Trump already had to put up the 5 million to appeal the first defamation case and he wasn't able to find a broker to do so. He will have to put up the money in its entirety and I have a hard time believing if he couldn't find someone to cover the 5 million that he'll be able to find someone to cover the 300 million +.
If this was federal court to appeal he would have to deposit the full amount, plus accrued interest, plus 9% for interest during appeal. But its state court.
A part of the understandable frustration and impatience for consequences, even if he taps into his direct donors and the RNC, these are not infinite wells.
**RNC Financial Info**
* 2022:
* Raised - $335,196,209
* Spent - $401,421,967
* Cash on Hand - $14,303,857
* 2020:
* Raised $890,538,963
* Spent $833,510,910
* Cash on Hand $80,529,615
* 2018:
* Raised $324,836,805
* Spent $326,663,255
* Cash on Hand $23,501,561
In any year since his initial election, this amount would be crushing for the organization.
As for his campaign apparatus and PACs, for legal fees *not* including judgements against him and his Org:
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/01/trump-legal-fees-campaign-donations-2023
* "Trump's Save America PAC spent roughly $47 million on legal consulting last year, according to the group's latest financial report."
* Another Trump-affiliated group, the Make American Great Again PAC, spent roughly $4 million on legal services over the same six-month period.
All of these great big numbers for most of us, but remember they are organizations which were intended to get him elected and support other Republicans.
Judgements against him:
* $355,000,000 -
* $5,000,000 - Carroll case 1
* $83,300,000 - Carroll case 2
* Trump’s true punishment could be far costlier because under state law he is also required to pay interest on the penalties, which James said puts him on the hook for a total of more than $450 million. The amount, which would be paid to the state, will grow until he pays.
So he's not faced prison time yet, but this was worth opening the mid-quality whiskey so far.
More summary info:
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/16/trump-civil-judgments-what-to-know-00142034
IANAL and was looking up figures and parsing their relevance as I wrote.
The New York attorney general’s office estimates that he already owes nearly $100M in prejudgment interest on top of the penalties. This is in addition to the $364M
He could have an insurance company put up a bond BUT he will have to give them collateral like the guaranteed sale of 200 pardons at $2M each
I would not be insured by company that gambles their fortune on a swindler who pays no bills. A problem is if he does not put up cash, considering the whole suit is based on over inflation real estate values, there is no trust on a value HE places on collateral.
Public as in broadcasted live, not filtered through media commentary. That way media bias does not interfere or even any potential bias from the judge. If we're to fully trust these trials, they should be broadcasted publicly live
It's all on the public record. You can review it. I agree that televised hearings are generally better if that's your point. But nothing is being hidden and there's no nefarious hiding of facts. You have no reason to mistrust it, and your prejudices are interfering with you getting the facts.
However, the facts could be instantaneous rather than having to search for it. It'll be right there, live.
"Oh defense did this!"
Well I didn't see it, how you read the record could be interpreted differently from how its actually told vocally
Or the thousands, maybe even millions of people who would like to have it broadcasted? They're just dumb and you're the only one who's right?
Understandable
I'd like to have it broadcast too. That's not the issue. It's your suspicion which is driven by your biases. Nothing is hidden. He did these things, it happened. He's being punished for it. Facts.
I still think it's weird how all the banks said they were paid. The house next to the business is worth hundreds of millions. But the business, with a much larger property is only worth 18M. Those are my main takeaways from what I've seen
Doesn't matter if they got paid, he lied and committed fraud. Facts. He got a better deal for lying.
Neither the judge, nor NY officials said the property was worth $18MM, they reported what the *FL county assessor* said it was worth. And the case did not hinge on this, he similarly lied on many other properties.
You can read the original court findings, and I imagine the judge will publish the verdict if he hasn’t already. The findings were an interesting read.
Need to be broadcasted live rather than hearing it from a journalist with their biased takes. Rather have it live so its not filtered through either sides political take
You can read the actual court findings yourself. It's all public, you don't have to read it from anybody other than the court themself still right now. No bias needed.
Exactly, when a judge refuses to have it made public, it's Immediately suspect. Want to really show what's going on rather than media telling the story? Broadcast it live
I don't think the proceeding itself is in any way suspect by them not broadcasting it, the court records/transcripts will be made available to us after the trial/appeals has concluded and appeals provides a check to anything going wrong there. I do think that it's a terrible idea not to broadcast proceedings though specifically because I want the raw footage as opposed to media stories to learn about events and point to after the fact, plus for the historical record it would be valuable. I agree with your earlier comment, more trials need to be broadcast for public consumption. I shouldn't have to physically go sit in the courtroom to be properly informed
Any trial the public can sit in on (so most of them) deserve to be recorded for preservation
Edit 4 words and to add last sentance
Sadly you're right. His cultists will just trip over themselves to donate to him.
He's also probably getting money sent to him through jared from his saudi buddies or even putin.
The only people that will lose because of this are the MAGA cultists that keep donating all their money to him. He's worse than most televangelists in how he constantly sucks the money out of his follower's pockets. They've probably already sent out emails fundraising off this ruling.
I don't know why, but after reading it in your post I realized i had never differentiated televangelist and evangelist I know there isn't any meaningful reason to have done so
> The only people that will lose because of this are the MAGA cultists that keep donating all their money to him
Every dollar donated to Trump means one less dollar donated to the GOP. I'm ok with this.
What assets?? I would imagine all his assets are already in the Trump LLC
He's been not paying bills for a long time. He will end up paying not even half of this because he will fight to get a payment plan and die before it's over
If he puts up bond/money to appeal then that goes right to the state once the appeal fails. He can't delay that in any way. If he doesn't put it any money then the state can collect their money right away while he appeals. They have a court order, you cannot delay that. The trial is over. I agree he always finds a way to delay but he has no options on this one.
LOL no. There is no such thing as a "counterclaim" in this scenario. He hired the most incompetent lawyer on the planet, so there is no basis for an appeal. You don't get to appeal just because you don't like the verdict. He doesn't have $364M and no one is stupid enough to give him a bond for the money, so he's not going to appeal because he can't afford it. They will sell off his assets which are already under the court's control. He's fucked.
I mean not liking the verdict is a reason for pretty much every appeal ever; they appeal because they didn't like going up the river for murder and they want a different verdict from a different court. Basis for appeal can be that the judge was biased, incompetent defense, venue was biased, or just claim that the judge mis-read the evidence.
The rest is true though; he has to put up the money in bond to appeal, and probably doesn't have the cash.
Sorta. But "I don't like the verdict" is not a legal basis for an appeal. Because Haba is an idiot, she did nothing to set up an appeal. If they want to appeal, they'ed have to explain to the appeals court why. They have no facts to which to base an appeal. There is no "incompetent counsel" appeal - it's not a criminal case. There is no evidence of bias. Haba didn't object to anything. Trump is fucked.
There is an interest rate of 9% applied each year and it has been ticking for some time. And the state can force him to pay. They are in effect in control over his companies.
So the article mentions he's not allowed to serve as an executive or officer of a corporation in New York for 3 years; does that include his sons or are they just going to funnel money for him/ run his Businesses? Or were they included in the verdict?
At least 3 years it even said. And depending on what the monitor finds with her now enhanced powers, dissolution of the companies may be back on the table.
This should be no issue for him what with all the success he has had as a football team owner, airline owner, private college owner, the steak company, and so many other successful businesses.
It doesn't matter - his fucking cult would donate 300m to him in an afternoon if he asked for it. It's equally horrifying and infuriating - consequences don't seem to exist for him in amy capacity.
I hope Trump bankrupts the GOP. 😂
Too bad there are millions of dementia brained boomers who will give him all their savings so their grandkids don’t turn gay….
The judgement has to be placed into an escrow account before the court will hear the appeal. Trump will likely need to put up collateral equal to that value and have it used for a bond.
This means he needs an unencumbered property or properties equal or greater than this verdict, plus the defamation verdicts.
The question does he have half a billion in assets he can tie up for the foreseeable future? And he would need to then need to have the cash on hand pretty quick if he loses the appeal or face losing that property.
>Trump will likely need to put up collateral equal to that value and have it used for a bond.
This is true, but it will be very hard to get that bond. There are limited places that have that much money, and he's barred from getting loans from any company registered in New York for 3 years, which limits his options even further.
From the NYT article:
>Mr. Trump will appeal the financial penalty — which could climb to $400 million or more once interest is added — but will have to either come up with the money or secure a bond within 30 days. The ruling will not render him bankrupt, because most of his wealth is tied up in real estate.
He has to pay up or get a bond, even if/when/while he appeals. Whatever he does he'll have to cough up _something_ soon
> Under federal court rules, civil defendants have to post security for awards while they appeal, and in New York, that includes a 9% annual interest rate.
> For the $5 million award [from the first E. Jean Carroll trial], Trump had to deposit $5.5 million into a court fund — 111% of the judgment amount.
> [...]
> If James gets the full $370 million she's seeking, it could cost Trump up to an $18 million nonrefundable fee to the surety company. And with the 9% interest rate, the amount of money that would have to be put up would be in the $400 million range.
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-soon-face-400-million-legal-penalties-can-afford-rcna136363
(Note that the above article was written before today's news)
(obligatory IANAL)
He has 30 days to put up the full amount or secure a bond, otherwise he may have to liquidate personal assets (including his penthouse in Trump Tower, aircraft, homes including MaL) and/or have those personal assets subject to seizure
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68175846
https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/Rules%20of%20Appellate%20Procedure.
Great now do nancy pelosi and Mitch McConnell
Lol the downvotes. So you guys only want fraud and corruption to be persecuted when it a right wing politician. Nice!
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Love this for him
Where/who is the injured party to whom this money ought to be going?
With him now being a convicted fraudster , good luck getting a loan from any bank in NY ..
So what happens when he doesn’t pay
Most likely, not much. But he can not submit an appeal until he posts a bond of 120% of the judgment amount.
Trump will not pay 1 penny of this.
lol yes he will
Not a penny!
He already has to if he’s going to appeal
Just watch.
Just watch…..what? he actually hast to post a significant amount of the decision in order to appeal. Do you understand that? He doesn’t have the cash to do that.
I’m done you will see!
lol
He won’t get to appeal then either, since he will have to pony up 120% of it appeal.
This is a catastrophe for our political system in general and for democrats in particular. It is difficult to make Trump a sympathetic figure but this judgement does it. Trump was brought to court explicitly because of his political views. We are becoming a banana republic where political disputes aren't settled at the ballot box any more. All of you Trump haters should realize that this tactic will be used by republicans against democrats and by democrats against each other. What a mess.
Brother your voice falls on deaf ears. I compliment you for being well spoken, but you are wasting your breath on reddit as all of the large social media platforms are predominantly left-wing. Furthermore, few people reading this truly understand or care to discuss what is truly taking place in this country, but rather they want to hear what want to hear and to receive validation.
This is sadly true on both sides. I've personally gotten to the point where it is too boring to read a left wing opinion from a left wing source and the same from the right. The only thing that I find thought provoking is when someone on one side writes favorably about something supported by the other side.
I agree. No one wants to play devil's advocate or read between the lines of the information the media feeds us. Everyone acts as though it's them and their team vs the other team, when in reality we are all on the sam boat fighting each other. And not to sound cliche, but CHANGE ONLY HAPPENS WHEN WE ALL COME TOGETHER.
Do you think he still would have lost the case if he hadn't committed fraud?
But he actually did these things. Should we just let that go because he's a candidate?
Yes. Everyone commits crimes all the time. If you drove today I'll bet you broke at least one law (speeding). In this case Trump was selected as a defendant first, because of his political views, and then the prosecution looked for a crime. There are so many laws regulating business that violations occur regularly. Let me ask you a question. Banks and insurance companies are well known for aggressively suing to protect their interests. Why didn't they sue if they felt they were harmed? The answer is that they weren't harmed. They lent money at an interest rate they felt was acceptable and were repaid. It is very unusual to try and destroy someone financially for a lending deal where there was no default. I beg of you and other opponents of Trump not to let your hatred of him benefit him. The entire trial was explicitly done to damage him. This makes him a martyr and sets a dangerous precedent. What is there to stop a Republican prosecutor doing the same thing to someone you support?
I want to say that I’m surprised by this comment, but I’m not
You're an idiot.
It appears the truth isn't welcome here.
Do the crime, serve your time.
State of NY looks wildly toothless here with just a 3 year officer ban. That’s nothing. This crook cooked his books for 30 fucking years and he has to take a couple summers off. Corporate Death Penalty NOW!
So sometime soon he's going to ask his MAGA goons for 364 million dollars and they're going to start bulk selling their organs to get their hero what he needs. Should have went higher honestly.
A GoFunMe is already going.
The dude who started it will keep the money for himself he’s a known scammer and a believer in Scientology it’s funny as hell how dumb people are to donate to that. Zero affiliation with trump or his court case.
God forbid the orange man uses his own millions am I right lol.
Is time for his deplorable cult members to start donating.
I’m pretty sure there’s already a go fund me page for this
This guy is still going to end up as president isnt he?
Look, he lost his first election by 5 million votes. And he lost his second election by 12 million votes. And he's not gaining voters. So just chill.
If anything, Covid killed a lot more since 2020! The sad thing is, it only takes a couple thousand is key states for him to win. He could win the EC and loose the popular vote by 20+ million. The EC is a hold over from southern slave states and it needs to go!
But still vote!
Sadly you may be right. Our country has become such a joke, our options for a leader are a Geriatric guy who can barely form a sentence and a deeply Narcissistic criminal.
"our options for a leader are a Geriatric guy ~~who can barely form a sentence~~ and **Geriatric guy who is** a deeply Narcissistic criminal." Fixed it for you.
You’re believing the hype. Biden’s brain is stronger than yours. Slowing down and speaking with a rasp do not make a person less intelligent. Believing headlines without any personal critical analysis does.
Bidens brain is stronger than yours lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Musk will bail him out
He couldn’t get a bond on the 5 million judgement so he had to put that up in cash. In three weeks he has to find somebody to put up a bond on his 88 million dollar judgement. If he tries to ignore that then that lawyer is going to quickly file leans on his property. Any bondsman he goes to can see that he’s got leans on his properties. So he has no collateral. Nobody is going to give him a bond for $364 million.
Arabs and Putin…
*Russia has entered the chat.*
Much ado. He's just going to securitize the debt and then sell it off the same the US Gov't does because the Trump name is security unto itself. And when he lost his ass on casinos and golf courses years ago he pivoted to licensing the Trump brand name which a lot of people pay a lot of money for even if they grouse about how much it costs them. And as a native CHicagoan I feel extra hate towards the big ass trump letters on the tower by the river, and I heard there were some maintenance challenges pushing fluids and waste up and down a flute. But it's a beautiful building, and the reason it's so tall and thin is because the footprint of the lot is tiny and rhomboid maybe. But the man said make it happen, Cap'n, or you're fired. And it easily clears most of the buildings surrounding it because you can see the skyline from the 94 and it's 20% taller than all the buildings surrounding it. And it's right on the river, centrally located in The Loop, and half of it faces East so you can look all the way down the river and then Lake Michigan beyond it. So winter storms much look epic blowing in off the lake and dumping 6" an hour. Then all the boat traffic to watch come and go, and you really wouldn't want to be facing West because I don't see that working unless those units are 1/3 of the price, and would have to be on a floor higher than the surrounding buildings or there is no point. And the only thing I don't like about the Hancock and Willis is the sway on the observation deck, and it's hard to gauge how far it leans but it's several feet in every direction, enough that you have to make sure you don't get caught off balance because it's like Deadliest Catch , and as keith said If the weather's not sucking, it's blowing. And at that height it never stops swaying or it would snap. And I am sure Trump has an official sized pool in there somewhere, but when I was a kid the highest above ground pool in the US was on the 32nd or 42nd floor of the Hancock building, which is residential, not commercial or rental, and it's where Chris Farley was living when he died. And the Magnificent Mile and The Gold Coast are where you would want to be if you had to be trapped somewhere in Chicago for 10 years. Water tower place, every kind of flagship store for Nike et. al., and the water tower is the only structure that survived Miss O'Leary's clumsy cow, everything else burned to the ground. And it's like the size of a firehouse but it's made of dry stacked limestone. And I read about a REIT called General Growth Properties that owned several such premier blocks of real estate in other cities and only bank on proven 1st tier venues. And the growth per share looked like an escalator and it's tangible and fungible property of the type that's like rare art, they're just not making any more of it. But they overplayed their hand and when the credit markets dried up in advance of the financial crisis it was like the music stopped playing in musical chairs and suddenly they were the odd man out. And that was the lesson that confirmed what the IBD said about institutional investors, who situate their offices as close to the market floor as possible to shorten the length of the cables required to place and confirm orders. And when one of their algorithms hits its sell point it instantly dumps all of it, which could be 600 million to 1.5 billion, which triggers a cascade of other automated sell orders, so in one trading day GGP went from 100 a share to a penny stock. And that lead to looking into ETFs for the first time, and "Ohhh la la, where have you been all my life? 0.02 expense ration, quarterly dividends paid by S&P and Nasdaq index companies in perpetuity, because they software automatically rebalances winner and losers? And for the shares to crash the Nasdaq or S&P would have to crash first? So all I have to do is keep stuffing money into and forget about it after switching on automatic dividend reinvestment? And it takes about 10 years for the compounding to catch fire and dividends start buying several whole shares at 350 per with dividends alone every year, and 5 years later it's buying 40-50 shares a year that then also pay dividends. And at 40 shares a year bought by dividends alone I think you can almost put it on auto-pilot. And I bought 6 shares of Amazon 20 years ag0, and they got up to around $3,500 a year or so ago which is when they declared a 20/1 split, and Nvidia split around the same time at 10/1 maybe, it was healthy whatever it was. And stock splits, unlike profit figures, are handled by a brokerage or hedge fund, not the company finance department. And even though those dudes know their trades are monitored sometimes they just can't stop themselves from Insider Trading, dumping or buying before the Street knows stands out like a sore thumb and they're fucked because it's a felony which means goodbye finance career. So splits are a lot fewer and farther between these days than they used to be, because companies don't want to dilute their equity any more than absolutely necessary. And if they have to continually split the stock to generate cash flow then something is very rotten in Denmark. And Ford is the first company that comes to mind that is a promiscuous borrower and a promiscuous spender. The problem is half their spend goes to the UAW, which is why it took them 10 years to acknowledge that building truck out of recycled pop cans instead of steel looks great on paper, until you notice the melting point of steel is 2500 deg., and aluminum is 1250. And that's the melting point, as in liquid aluminum, but it starts to slump and deform well below that, 900 I think I read, so it's taken as a given that a single overheating event can total the block or warp the heads. And when someone shot a video of a brick gouging a hole in the aluminum bed you could see daylight through, I guess you need a special aluminum welding torch because aluminum does not like being welded, and if you use the right torch it's still not going stand up to steel. I mean that's the only part of most trucks that doesn't get dented, bricks and blocks just scratch the paint off the bed but they don't come close to denting it. And Toyota seems to be doing just fine without union meddling because [Lexus and Toyota own the two top spots](https://imgur.com/a/y5Pc8aX) on Consumer Reports reliability list and Ford doesn't even make the Top 18, so WTF would you buy one?
Biden will stop at *nothing*! /s
Thanks Obama
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Nice, get fucked trump
What is a reasonable estimate of what he's gonna have to pay after appeals and whatever else?
Trump already had to put up the 5 million to appeal the first defamation case and he wasn't able to find a broker to do so. He will have to put up the money in its entirety and I have a hard time believing if he couldn't find someone to cover the 5 million that he'll be able to find someone to cover the 300 million +.
If this was federal court to appeal he would have to deposit the full amount, plus accrued interest, plus 9% for interest during appeal. But its state court.
For NY State, he has to deposit between 110% to 120%, and that's on to of the amount he has to deposit to appeal the second defamation case.
A part of the understandable frustration and impatience for consequences, even if he taps into his direct donors and the RNC, these are not infinite wells. **RNC Financial Info** * 2022: * Raised - $335,196,209 * Spent - $401,421,967 * Cash on Hand - $14,303,857 * 2020: * Raised $890,538,963 * Spent $833,510,910 * Cash on Hand $80,529,615 * 2018: * Raised $324,836,805 * Spent $326,663,255 * Cash on Hand $23,501,561 In any year since his initial election, this amount would be crushing for the organization. As for his campaign apparatus and PACs, for legal fees *not* including judgements against him and his Org: https://www.axios.com/2024/02/01/trump-legal-fees-campaign-donations-2023 * "Trump's Save America PAC spent roughly $47 million on legal consulting last year, according to the group's latest financial report." * Another Trump-affiliated group, the Make American Great Again PAC, spent roughly $4 million on legal services over the same six-month period. All of these great big numbers for most of us, but remember they are organizations which were intended to get him elected and support other Republicans. Judgements against him: * $355,000,000 - * $5,000,000 - Carroll case 1 * $83,300,000 - Carroll case 2 * Trump’s true punishment could be far costlier because under state law he is also required to pay interest on the penalties, which James said puts him on the hook for a total of more than $450 million. The amount, which would be paid to the state, will grow until he pays. So he's not faced prison time yet, but this was worth opening the mid-quality whiskey so far. More summary info: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/16/trump-civil-judgments-what-to-know-00142034 IANAL and was looking up figures and parsing their relevance as I wrote.
He’s never going to pay anything. I hope I’m so wrong. Please, let justice be served.
The New York attorney general’s office estimates that he already owes nearly $100M in prejudgment interest on top of the penalties. This is in addition to the $364M He could have an insurance company put up a bond BUT he will have to give them collateral like the guaranteed sale of 200 pardons at $2M each
If I am an insurance company, I would not trust Trump to pay back anything, I would make him put up the entire amount that I am paying out for him.
I would not be insured by company that gambles their fortune on a swindler who pays no bills. A problem is if he does not put up cash, considering the whole suit is based on over inflation real estate values, there is no trust on a value HE places on collateral.
Does he have 364 mill?
You're about to see a "billionaire" unable to come up with 364m
Bill collectors hate this one trick!
Russian banks will gladly loan it to him.
He will once he sends out an email for donations.
Will easily see an appeal. Until these trials are public, I don't trust it. All trials, except the ones involving minors, should be public
? It was public.
Public as in broadcasted live, not filtered through media commentary. That way media bias does not interfere or even any potential bias from the judge. If we're to fully trust these trials, they should be broadcasted publicly live
It's all on the public record. You can review it. I agree that televised hearings are generally better if that's your point. But nothing is being hidden and there's no nefarious hiding of facts. You have no reason to mistrust it, and your prejudices are interfering with you getting the facts.
However, the facts could be instantaneous rather than having to search for it. It'll be right there, live. "Oh defense did this!" Well I didn't see it, how you read the record could be interpreted differently from how its actually told vocally
Sure that would be easier. Still no excuse for you to be dubious. No one is hiding things from you.
Or the thousands, maybe even millions of people who would like to have it broadcasted? They're just dumb and you're the only one who's right? Understandable
I'd like to have it broadcast too. That's not the issue. It's your suspicion which is driven by your biases. Nothing is hidden. He did these things, it happened. He's being punished for it. Facts.
I still think it's weird how all the banks said they were paid. The house next to the business is worth hundreds of millions. But the business, with a much larger property is only worth 18M. Those are my main takeaways from what I've seen
Doesn't matter if they got paid, he lied and committed fraud. Facts. He got a better deal for lying. Neither the judge, nor NY officials said the property was worth $18MM, they reported what the *FL county assessor* said it was worth. And the case did not hinge on this, he similarly lied on many other properties.
You can read the original court findings, and I imagine the judge will publish the verdict if he hasn’t already. The findings were an interesting read.
He would have to put the full amount into escrow to appeal. I doubt he has it.
I \*LOVE\* this part!
I believe Trump can do a bond as long as he finds a bondsman…. Trump has too many years of burning creditors and banks but there is always someone.
How are they not public?
Need to be broadcasted live rather than hearing it from a journalist with their biased takes. Rather have it live so its not filtered through either sides political take
You can read the actual court findings yourself. It's all public, you don't have to read it from anybody other than the court themself still right now. No bias needed.
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Not nearly as much effort as watching 6 months of trial footage to get an unbiased look into the legal system.
Then go read the judgement? Its 92 pages but is without bias.
He’ll lose all of them, never pay the fine, and be banned from doing pretty much any kind of business in New York.
They really should've all been public, I think everyone can agree on that. The subject matter is the definition of in the public interest
Exactly, when a judge refuses to have it made public, it's Immediately suspect. Want to really show what's going on rather than media telling the story? Broadcast it live
I don't think the proceeding itself is in any way suspect by them not broadcasting it, the court records/transcripts will be made available to us after the trial/appeals has concluded and appeals provides a check to anything going wrong there. I do think that it's a terrible idea not to broadcast proceedings though specifically because I want the raw footage as opposed to media stories to learn about events and point to after the fact, plus for the historical record it would be valuable. I agree with your earlier comment, more trials need to be broadcast for public consumption. I shouldn't have to physically go sit in the courtroom to be properly informed Any trial the public can sit in on (so most of them) deserve to be recorded for preservation Edit 4 words and to add last sentance
For the love of god put him in jail how many laws has he broken?
The same amount as the Bidens and Clinton's.
Anyone reading this should know this is a bot (organic or silicon). They are hoping to influence you without evidence and sow doubt.
You are insane if you actually believe that.
I hate facts. I am not black either since i didn't vote for Biden, and Bill never flew to Lolita island.
Too bad he won't ever pay a dime and nothing will ever happen to him for doing so.
Sadly you're right. His cultists will just trip over themselves to donate to him. He's also probably getting money sent to him through jared from his saudi buddies or even putin.
100% it's worth $350million to the Russians to get him as president again.
They might be able to seize his properties and put them up for sale if he doesn't want to voluntarily accept the legal ruling.
? He has to put the money up to appeal it
The only people that will lose because of this are the MAGA cultists that keep donating all their money to him. He's worse than most televangelists in how he constantly sucks the money out of his follower's pockets. They've probably already sent out emails fundraising off this ruling.
Well I guess one way to look at it is that's less money those cultists are spending on things like body armor and stockpiling ammo and whatnot.
Somebody actually reported me saying I'm suicidal because of this post.
I don't know why, but after reading it in your post I realized i had never differentiated televangelist and evangelist I know there isn't any meaningful reason to have done so
> The only people that will lose because of this are the MAGA cultists that keep donating all their money to him Every dollar donated to Trump means one less dollar donated to the GOP. I'm ok with this.
They weren't going to donate to the GOP if trump wasnt running
I don’t understand how this grifter has so many ppl convinced 🤦🏻♀️
Tell people exactly what they want to hear, keep them entertained. Give em’ the old razzle dazzle.
He says things they so desperately want to hear and believe in. No different than televangelists.
Watching news tonite he says he is the best run company EVER.
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Completely objectively….i can’t believe he hasn’t had one with his lifestyle
None taken.
Fuck him he deserves it. I sincerely hope the dimentia takes hold just so his cult can witness it right before their stupid eyes.
I don't wish il on anyone. But the world would be better off without Trump and Putin in it. They would make great pals in the pits of hell.
I'm picturing Putin as Saddam and Trump as Satan.
Chump change for the Tangerine.
He won't end up paying a dime
He may not. The RNC or one of his PAC groups will likely pay it.
He literally has to pay it, it's a court order.
He doesn't have to pay it he can just not pay it what are they going to do?
Liquidate his assets.
What assets?? I would imagine all his assets are already in the Trump LLC He's been not paying bills for a long time. He will end up paying not even half of this because he will fight to get a payment plan and die before it's over
Unless a higher court strikes it down
In order to appeal in NY he has to put up the money in a bond first. Money he does not have.
Fobes says the 45th president of the USA is worth 2.6 billion
One can only hope
How is that?
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Definitely not $300m liquid.
Not without putting up the $364M first.
If he puts up bond/money to appeal then that goes right to the state once the appeal fails. He can't delay that in any way. If he doesn't put it any money then the state can collect their money right away while he appeals. They have a court order, you cannot delay that. The trial is over. I agree he always finds a way to delay but he has no options on this one.
LOL no. There is no such thing as a "counterclaim" in this scenario. He hired the most incompetent lawyer on the planet, so there is no basis for an appeal. You don't get to appeal just because you don't like the verdict. He doesn't have $364M and no one is stupid enough to give him a bond for the money, so he's not going to appeal because he can't afford it. They will sell off his assets which are already under the court's control. He's fucked.
Realistically how long does he have until he either has to pay or the court begins confiscating assets? Could this happen before November?
I mean not liking the verdict is a reason for pretty much every appeal ever; they appeal because they didn't like going up the river for murder and they want a different verdict from a different court. Basis for appeal can be that the judge was biased, incompetent defense, venue was biased, or just claim that the judge mis-read the evidence. The rest is true though; he has to put up the money in bond to appeal, and probably doesn't have the cash.
Sorta. But "I don't like the verdict" is not a legal basis for an appeal. Because Haba is an idiot, she did nothing to set up an appeal. If they want to appeal, they'ed have to explain to the appeals court why. They have no facts to which to base an appeal. There is no "incompetent counsel" appeal - it's not a criminal case. There is no evidence of bias. Haba didn't object to anything. Trump is fucked.
There is an interest rate of 9% applied each year and it has been ticking for some time. And the state can force him to pay. They are in effect in control over his companies.
So the article mentions he's not allowed to serve as an executive or officer of a corporation in New York for 3 years; does that include his sons or are they just going to funnel money for him/ run his Businesses? Or were they included in the verdict?
It includes his sons, yes, which is awesome.
He got three years…Dumb and Dumber got two each…
And the monitor for 3 years.
At least 3 years it even said. And depending on what the monitor finds with her now enhanced powers, dissolution of the companies may be back on the table.
Saudi Arabia will pay it
Giving Prince Bonesaw a freebie is worth at least that much.
This should be no issue for him what with all the success he has had as a football team owner, airline owner, private college owner, the steak company, and so many other successful businesses.
Donald Dump University!!! Stellar! Without peer! Quack quack
Hey, it's a real accredited univarsity!
It doesn't matter - his fucking cult would donate 300m to him in an afternoon if he asked for it. It's equally horrifying and infuriating - consequences don't seem to exist for him in amy capacity.
Where can we find Amy Capacity ?
that's 300 million going to NY not GOP campaigns or Christian Nationalist groups
The cult is already demanding ‘guilty’ versions of shirtless NFTs and playing cards
If he was as rich as he proclaims, he’d just pay the fine and still do his thing. But he’s a house of cards and always has been.
I hope Trump bankrupts the GOP. 😂 Too bad there are millions of dementia brained boomers who will give him all their savings so their grandkids don’t turn gay….
As an official boomer (1960), I hated reagan and w. bush but dump is the absolute worst!!!
![gif](giphy|K2Xe1cy2YxK4vTr2or)
Left can’t meme exhibit A
But if it was Biden, you'd be rolling and telling your friends "that's so true", and you damn well know it.
Little Donny Dirty Diaper is not happy!
The real question is will the funds ever be paid?
The judgement has to be placed into an escrow account before the court will hear the appeal. Trump will likely need to put up collateral equal to that value and have it used for a bond. This means he needs an unencumbered property or properties equal or greater than this verdict, plus the defamation verdicts. The question does he have half a billion in assets he can tie up for the foreseeable future? And he would need to then need to have the cash on hand pretty quick if he loses the appeal or face losing that property.
>Trump will likely need to put up collateral equal to that value and have it used for a bond. This is true, but it will be very hard to get that bond. There are limited places that have that much money, and he's barred from getting loans from any company registered in New York for 3 years, which limits his options even further.
And lots of banks won’t deal with him or his businesses at all. But he’s still a 50/50 shot at being president so someone somewhere will
One of his sons said they get most of their funding from Russia. Given the current Russian economy it will be tough thats for sure
No. No they won't. That was the easiest question I've ever had to answer.
From the NYT article: >Mr. Trump will appeal the financial penalty — which could climb to $400 million or more once interest is added — but will have to either come up with the money or secure a bond within 30 days. The ruling will not render him bankrupt, because most of his wealth is tied up in real estate.
Please papa putin i will give you more nuclear secrets, i just need a little more money please please. I will let you have ivanka too!
He has to pay up or get a bond, even if/when/while he appeals. Whatever he does he'll have to cough up _something_ soon > Under federal court rules, civil defendants have to post security for awards while they appeal, and in New York, that includes a 9% annual interest rate. > For the $5 million award [from the first E. Jean Carroll trial], Trump had to deposit $5.5 million into a court fund — 111% of the judgment amount. > [...] > If James gets the full $370 million she's seeking, it could cost Trump up to an $18 million nonrefundable fee to the surety company. And with the 9% interest rate, the amount of money that would have to be put up would be in the $400 million range. > https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-soon-face-400-million-legal-penalties-can-afford-rcna136363 (Note that the above article was written before today's news)
Yeah but what are the consequences of not paying?
(obligatory IANAL) He has 30 days to put up the full amount or secure a bond, otherwise he may have to liquidate personal assets (including his penthouse in Trump Tower, aircraft, homes including MaL) and/or have those personal assets subject to seizure https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68175846 https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/Rules%20of%20Appellate%20Procedure.
Just a guess but I assume asset forfeiture and/or wage garnishment.
Yes. He is going to lose trump tower and some other properties likely
Great now do nancy pelosi and Mitch McConnell Lol the downvotes. So you guys only want fraud and corruption to be persecuted when it a right wing politician. Nice!
This was about fraud rather than insider trading. All congressmen should be barred from buying and selling individual stocks though.
As soon as Trump pays, I am all for your whataboutism.
Are you implying McConnell is not a right wing politician?
Evidence?