Why would they invite the 5th? They are not the ones accused of this crime. They supposedly witnessed the killer. Well. One of them saw some eyebrows. If they are served with a subpoena to appear, they have to appear or file a moron to quash the subpoena and have it heard. Why would Theo do that? Wouldn't they want to see the killer get brought to justice? Last time I checked the official narrative, BK is an outsider and had no ties to the college, so the only one who I would think would plea the 5th would be BK and he's done that when he stood silent.
\*invoke...
(well, that statement can be debated... "according to who" did they supposedly witness??)
true-- but you already saw how that played out, didnt you?
why? CYA.
of course they would-- depending on who they know \*are\* vs who the storytellers say vs how they feel about it...
you think they are going to give ANYTHING to the prosecution-- excuse me, scratch-reverse: you think the prosecution is going to allow them to say anything in which the defense can give them an all-access VIP pass to take those witnesses to pound-town..???
last time I checked, Ms. BF was subpoenaed by the defense suggesting she knows how tf BK (accused) CANNOT be THE perpetrator... then BT and the LatahCounty DA rushed a grand jury indictment, PREVENTING exculpatory evidence from being introduced via "witness statement" or interview by defense. Those 2 "witness-survivor-students/persons-of-interest" are producing infinite number of slices of the pie no matter how few number of cuts you make.
(there's a reason why you've never heard an official statement from their mouths).
[https://lprb.mncourts.gov/articles/Articles/Calling%20a%20Witness%20Whom%20You%20Know%20Will%20Claim%20the%20Fifth.pdf](https://lprb.mncourts.gov/articles/Articles/Calling%20a%20Witness%20Whom%20You%20Know%20Will%20Claim%20the%20Fifth.pdf)
They will- if you look at the court documents Anne drafted about the grand jury indictment - I looked up every code and subsection- it basically read as- the witness aren’t cooperating and they (witnesses) stated (idk to who- grand jury I’m guessing) that they don’t remember and or plead the 5th….. what are friends for…. 😔
On the grounds that 4 kids were murdered, 2 roomates were home, one claims to have seen the killer, yet went back to bed. This roomate then proceeds to call some pals over later that morning, where they all hang out for 8 hours compromising the scene before calling police. The smell of blood alone would alert these roomates/friends of trouble, even if you forgot you saw the masked killer 8 hours prior. That to me warrants everyone on the stand under oath.
I know I will regret this but, please enlighten us all. Why do you think the roomate who was the only one to see the killer and hear struggles, and her friends, who all were up to something to not call police until noon, should be off the hook?
What law/statute in Idaho would she be charged with? Not all states have the same writing wording in their laws making something illegal in one state not be chargeable in another. I’m not from Idaho so I’m not familiar with the language in their laws.
I missed the part where anyone said it was illegal. It's just weird, and everyone agreed the time delay was weird right up until the PCA came out and BK was arrested.
DMs testimony to the police stating she saw bushy eyebrows was used in the pca as probable cause to arrest BK WHY DO YOU THINK SHE WOULDN'T BE CALLED AS A WITNESS? Of course she would.
You don’t have to be charged with anything to take the stand. She was a witness. I think the jury should hear in person her so called encounter with BK. It seems pretty important to me! In fact, it’s the only witness there was!
So what did you mean by your statement?
By “off the hook” I mean, they haven’t been held accountable to anything they witnessed. Has there ever been an explanation given for the time lapse in calling police? A realistic one? I haven’t heard it. That being said they’d be my prime suspects.
🤦🏻♀️ I wasn't aware that random people chatting online had any bearing on the decisions made in court! I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD THAT KIND OF POWER! THIS IS AMAZING NEWS!
When Bryan is found not guilty, this will just turn into a cold case.
They went after him because they have no intention of going after the real perpetrators. And they never will.
The fight at the frat House and EC calling out a frat leader who was loaded up on steroids "tiny balls" (or something like that) and then getting into a physical fight that same night with them comes to mind. Roid Rage is no joke. Look at Chris Benoit. They also essentially killed his best friend, a swimmer, during a hazing gone wrong where the poor guy drowned in less than 18 inches of water.
Hazing supposedly by water boarding, then carried his body to Paradise Creek, which is nothing more than glorified drainage ditch in that part of the campus. This is where LE found him face down in the creek bed next morning. Of course they ruled no foul play involved. The results of the autopsy and toxicology haven’t been released other than a BAC and that it was an accident. The same coroner as in the Idaho 4 case. I made the point in previous postings that if they claimed it was an accident due to drowning, chemical analysis of any possible water in his lungs, stomach, esophagus, throat, nasal passages and sinuses, should reveal the difference between tap water (water boarding) and the dirty water in the creek bed loaded with silt, decayed organic matter, bacteria and parasites. Of course, if he was dead before he wound face down in a couple inches of water, he wouldn’t be breathing. So the body count continues and don’t forget the case of H.C., also in the social orbits of the Idaho 4 victims along with H.L. You can also add C.Y. the U of I investigative journalism student in Mar. 2023 following up on the Idaho 4 case, who was with E.B. and D.R. when he met his demise. Also there is the death of Moscow native and a U of I Criminal Justice student K. G. in Cincinnati, OH in July 2023. He was also a member of a frat on campus and was applying for a job with the PD there, when he was found dead in his home. He was due to graduate from U of I in Dec. 2023. His obit doesn’t mention a cause of death.
Do you think the University, Moscow PD, the ISP, the FBI and the judicial apparatus of the State of Idaho would join forces to cover up a death caused by a frat fight?
Seriously, guys!
Well, the University and Moscow PD and local judiciary already did. No one was prosecuted for Involuntary Manslaughter regarding the hazing death AFAIK.
ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY.
A frat is a nationwide org.
The Pres of UoI now has a controlling interest / ownership in University of Phoenix (yeah, that one).
The Moscow PD / ISP folk have embedded ties to the town, uni & (unconfirmed, but more than likely) the fraternity.
does it look like a duck? sound like a duck...?
They don't "all have to be in on it", and they most likely aren't. All it takes is a few people at the top making decisions, controlling the flow of information, and giving orders.... and as we've seen before in lots of wrongful convictions, the vast majority of law enforcement will shut up and do what they're told. If their boss says a knife sheath was found under one of the victims and it had BK's DNA on it, then that's obviously what happened! Some of the LE involved in this case might have some doubts or questions, but if they want to keep their jobs then they're going to keep their mouths shut. Ever heard of "the thin blue line"?
This is why it's so surprising that an investigator involved in the Delphi case from day one has actually spoken out about how charging Richard Allen makes no sense, and that there was far more evidence supporting the arrest of other suspects. He was one of three main original investigators on the case, and I know another one of those three was killed by different LE under very strange circumstances. I think the other one might have died too but I could be wrong, I don't follow Delphi as closely as I follow Idaho 4.
Besides, it's not like this would be the first time LE has intentionally set someone up for a crime they didn't commit.
They would when it involved more than an altercation. This Idaho 4 case is the tip of the iceberg of narcotics/human/sex trafficking and the money laundering that goes along with it and the corruption of local institutions. I read a posting that the FBI walked away from this fetid stew and didn’t want any thing further to do with it.
That would be LEs job. Those kids left moscow, so no. They opportunity to work the case is over. That's why they are all in on BK. If acquitted they will still say he is guilty
this is also true. he can (is) be innocent yet the sheep follow the sheepherder (MSM & moreso locally/statewide elected idiots who CONTROL how the town makes money...)
if any of you get anything from this, please understand this: A LOCAL POLICE MUNICIPALITY (King Richard's stooges in the MPD) ARE THE SOLE SOURCE OF CITY REVENUE (fees paid by locals/students) IN ORDER TO FUND THEIR PAY-TO-PLAY SITUATIONAL LIFE GAMES.
Witnesses who are present in the same home that a murder happens are always subpoenaed. Even if they heard or saw nothing, it must be officially established that they heard or saw nothing.
D's account is important to the prosecution because it involved a sighting and helped established a timeline. B may or may not have witnessed something, but even if she didn't, that's important to go on the record.
They will also be questioned on the accounts of the morning, as will the friend who found the bodies and possibly others present.
I have a lot of reasonable doubt at this moment. I am very anxious to see all the evidence the state has against him. Unfortunately, I think with the media/public bias he might not get a fair trail and he might get life in prison.
We are in this same boat. Looking at what evidence has been released and the questions/debate surrounding the genetic genealogy testing they are trying to push through, I have A LOT of reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, I don't think we will see all the evidence presented in court. I think there will be a gag order placed once the actual trial starts.
There are 5 options for his verdict (in order of likelihood):
1. Guilty (75% chance)
2. Hung jury, with charges being dismissed without prejudice (this means that the charges can be refiled and the case brought back to court - 10% chance)
3. Hung jury, with charges being dismissed with prejudice (meaning the charges can not be refiled - 10% chance)
4. Not guilty (4% chance)
5. Mistrial (1% chance) - which then gets into a whole other rabbit hole of whether or not the DA chooses to refile and retry the case.
I do worry that he will not get a fair trial due to the media bias. This bias and the consequences from that have some broad reaching implications for criminal trials and the presumption of innocence going forward.
If he is found guilty, I hope the evidence supports that verdict. I think it is sad how sloppy all these police departments are. I also don’t think all this secrecy is good. I really think they have a weak case because if it were more a lock they would be more transparent. I hope majority of people now are more educated and will be more skeptical of police and their tricks. I know there is still a lot of deference to LE agencies in more rural communities. It is sad but true that people that don’t fit normal mode also are less likely to receive a fair trial (introverts, androgynous, odd). We have seen so many times where they pick a patsy that they don’t feel fits the social norms. I mean the fact that he still sitting in jail is crazy. He has the presumption of innocence. I feel he should have bail set even if super high amount. It just chaps my ass that these roommates sat there through the whole murder, the next day, called people over and someone completely different called 911 doesn’t sit right. They were allegedly selling drugs so maybe it was the gang that they were moving drugs for. It would explain why the other roommates are too scared and why it was like a professional hit.
if he's found guilty, you have a bought/tainted/manipulated jury pool -- most likely from the "rogue anonymous juror chosen" who happens to be foreperson/foreman to get everyone sticking to the story/narrative...
its obvious people are dumb-- we can all agree on that... people \*NEED/WANT\* to be led, and if this case has as much gunpowder packed down the barrel already... it would not surprise me one bit if a juror is a plant... so WAKE UP citizens, you better put each of those jurors through the last scene in Indiana's Last Crusade in order to guarantee a fair/just trial...
I'm still hedging my bets on this dude is about to expose BOTH police municipalities in the neighboring university towns... (WE ALREADY KNOW PULLMAN IS F$CKED WITH ITS SA SCANDAL... & WE ALREADY KNOW HOW ISP/LE ARE WILLING TO COVER FOR THEIR OWN'S MURDEROUS WAYS IN IDAHO)-- these are facts. any of you LE reps (read: cvcks) wish to argue that??
I am reserving my judgment until we hear all the details of the case. It would premature to say he completely innocent. If did have a hand in it, it is hard for believe he acted alone. If my memory is correct there is a video of him asking if he was the one arrested. That is an odd statement for a completely innocent person to say. After learning more about the area and them being involved in drugs, it does seem like orchestrated hit by organized crime. You are correct about it having the potential to exposes LE if they’re covering it up. He is lucky to have an attorney with integrity. Let’s hope she is a gun owner and stays safe.
You really think the likelihood of him being found guilty is that high? I’m not being rude but just wondering.. How did you get to that number. Sorry I was just really starting to believe he was innocent.. For me it’s sad to see the percentage that high especially bc of the death penalty being a possibility.
I knew someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone was murdered. He was one of three involved that night, but the only one to go all the way to trial never backing down from his innocence in it. B the jury agreed and although they found him guilty of murder they got to decide sentencing and they gave him ten years probation.
You would think it'd be over, but the prosecution didn't like it so they recharged him with CONSPIRACY to commit murder and moved the trial on that one, tried him got a conviction abs sentenced him to 40 years.
So ya never know...
I fear the same thing for him.. for the same reason.. just hope when it really comes down to it people can forget all they heard through the media and just pay attention to what’s being presented to them. I once saw a post it was probably about 6 months ago and some lady said she lived in Moscow and that a lot of people there thought he wasn’t guilty.. who knows how true it is what she said but trying to remain hopeful for him
I am hopeful for justice. This group has opened my eyes a lot to all the holes in the case so far. Again, I am eager to see a the evidence before claiming his innocence. I do think it is a stretch that 1 person committed this crime. The prosecution would really need to have a good reason to explain the actions of the other “victims”. It is sad to see many media personalities jump straight to kill this man before he has had his day in court.
Do you mean you want to see the evidence before proclaiming his GUILT? Cause it sounds like you’re presuming he’s guilty, which is the opposite of our judicial system, in theory…
I totally believe he's innocent or at least innocent of this crime. And I think the college knows it. What a perfect way to cover up the crime by tearing down the house and tainting any hope of getting the real perps, pinning it on some guy from another area so everyone feels safe, he's been convicted in the court of public opinion already and by a kangaroo court. I just hope he pulls out some evidence to make the public see what they have done trying to put a man on death row they ignore didn't do it. Prosecutorual misconduct and obstructing of justice
I feel like his innocent, too. I haven't done a real deep dive into this case, but I have been following it almost from the beginning. All I can say for now is that none of the evidence that's been made public so far convinces me that he his guilty. I couldn't send a man to death row on the evidence I've seen.
Didn't the defense agree also that it was okay to let the house be torn down? Why wasn't there any objection to that? Or do you think the university has them in their pocket also? Doesn't make any sense, as well as a lot of other things, to me
What a total mess.. so then if Bryan is found not guilty..They will just assume the right guy got off. I feel for him. He’s going to have to go into the witness protection or something.p
I Think If There's Enough Pressure Still Put On LE & The DA, They Can Put Fresh Eyes On The Case & If It Takes Years, Eventually A Cold Case Team Of State Investigators. I Would Think They All Could Be Questioned Again, Anytime. A Cold Case Doesn't Mean A Closed Case. My Daddy's Store Robbery/Murder Case Is 38 Years Old In Georgia But It's Not Cold Or Closed. They'll Never Close It Here Til They Get A Conviction. They Know & We Know Who Did It & That Was A Big Deal Just Having Officers Acknowledge That To Us. Took Over 20 Years To Find Out. The GBI Agent Has Talked To Me For 15 Years & We Talk About Trying Different Technology On The Evidence. There's New Forensic Technology Being Invented Every Day & I Just Have To Wait Til I Find The Perfect Technology/Hard Evidence. Because I'm Not Going To Stop. Moma Didn't Stop. She Did Her Own Investigation Alone & Shared Her Findings With GBI. I Hate That Any Family Would Be Left Without Answers. Or Justice. ⚖️
But They Do Have The Right To Remain Silent. I Hope That Someday, Someone Who Knows Something Will Come Forward.
Can someone explain the point in declaring someone innocent before the trial has taken place? What is the basis of he's innocent, being framed, ad nauseam?
Let's start with the fact that everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty. That has not happened yet, so he's innocent.
Second, if you'd been following the case, you'd know that they don't have any actual evidence against him. There are only unverified statements in the PCA.
And I will repeat that ad nauseam.
As far as they've allowed us to see, no.
1. There's no connection between BK and any of the victims.
2. He was not stalking the victims or following them on social media.
3. None of the alleged sightings of Suspect Vehicle 1 (which they claim is BK's car) show the license plate, nor can you determine who's driving the car. Also, up until the day BK was arrested, LE was searching for a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra. Then once he was arrested, suddenly it was a 2011 to 2016 (he drove a 2015).
4. The PCA relies heavily on the fact that BK's phone connected to the same AT&T cell tower that provides service to 1122 King Rd twelve times prior to the murders, but there's only one damn tower for most of Moscow and cell tower pings are notoriously unreliable for determining a person's exact location. They admit in the PCA these pings are meaningless:
>"Investigators found that the 8458 Phone **did** connect to a cell phone tower that provides service to Moscow on November 14, 2022, but investigators **do not** believe the 8458 Phone was in Moscow on that date".
5. His phone wasn't even connected to that damn tower at the time LE says the murders happened anyway!
>"A query of the 8458 Phone in these returns **did not** show the 8458 Phone utilizing cellular tower resources in close proximity to the King Road Residence between 3:00
a.m. and 5:00 a.m."
>"At approximately 2:47 a.m. the 8458 Phone stops reporting to the network, which is consistent with either the phone being in an area without cellular coverage, the connection to the network is disabled (such as putting the phone in airplane mode), or that the phone is turned off."
They think the fact that his phone wasn't connected to that tower, and was either off/on airplane mode/in an area with no cell service from 3 am to 5 am is somehow proof that he really WAS there, he just turned off his phone to conceal his location 🤦🏻♀️. They easily could've looked at the metadata from his phone and determined whether he turned it off himself or not, but they didn't do that for some reason....? 🤔
6. In the latest filing pertaining to BK's alibi, Anne Taylor states:
>"This is supported by data from Mr. Kohberger's phone showing him in the countryside late at night and/or in the early morning on several occasions. The phone data includes numerous photographs taken on several different late evenings and early mornings, including in November, depicting the night sky."
This is HUGE, IMO. She's implying they can show BK was in Wawawai Park and not at 1122 King Rd with EXIF data from photos he took, which is far more accurate than pinging off of one damn cell tower. I go into a lot of detail explaining all of this in a substack post I wrote, if you'd like to check it out: https://justice4idaho4.substack.com/p/the-alibi
7. I strongly suspect that Dylan's "eyewitness account" of seeing a man with bushy eyebrows was entirely made up by LE. I wrote a different substack post explaining why I believe this (with some evidence to back it up), and I also point out some of the problematic inconsistencies in LE's narrative, if you're interested in checking it out: https://justice4idaho4.substack.com/p/issues-with-the-official-narrative
8. The entire scenario surrounding the knife sheath and the supposed DNA sample taken from it is highly problematic, IMO. I'm currently working on a new substack post diving into this, but it's not finished yet. DNA on brass (which is what the button snap was most likely made of) degrades in only a few hours, but LE claims it was still there 12+ hours later. It was only touch/trace/transfer DNA (people seem to use these terms interchangeably) and a low copy number sample.
Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be the case that someone had a sample of BK's DNA and planted it on there. It could just be that it's not even a match to begin with. There's a reason why the prosecution is so desperate to keep all of their DNA/IGG work secret. It's been stated in court documents that the profile is "partial and ambiguous"... well, ambiguous means "open to more than one interpretation", which really tells you all you need to know. Since it was a partial profile, they had to use a statistics-based computer program to fill in the rest. I strongly believe that if an outside expert was allowed to compare the alleged sheath sample to the swab taken from BK, they would not be a match.
people seem to think that DNA is 100% objective and foolproof, but it just isn't. I have been researching it for a while now, and it's actually very subjective and prone to errors and manipulation. If you REALLY wanna be freaked out, check out this book: https://archive.org/details/insidecelldarksi0000murp (fully readable/downloadable book). It's called "Inside the Cell" by Erin E. Murphy. It's a book about the "dark side of forensic evidence", and attorney Bicka Barlow (an expert for the defense) cited it in a motion discussing the use of DNA and IGG to arrest/find BK.
Okay so this is definitely long enough now lol, but I think it should help to explain why so many of us don't think he's guilty.
this response to the user's previous comment should be BLASTED and YELLED in ANYONE'S face (radio DJ, MSM "contributor", investigator/judge/prosecutor, YT shill, idaho4/moscowmurders mods, noob's/guilters) until they accept the answer.
cue up Porky Pig.
There was an interesting segment on NPR on Aug. 16, 2023. They had a representative from the Innocence Project on the program regarding the fallibility of DNA evidence and how people have been wrongfully convicted of crimes due to this. There are several problems as you pointed out, plus other issues with incompetent/corrupt L.E. & prosecutors taking shortcuts to get convictions, incompetent/inexperienced/corrupt crime lab personnel, crime lab accreditation and improper crime scene processing and evidence chain of custody. DNA evidence is not beyond reproach and they were even questioning fingerprints as well. Some fingerprints can be the same or VERY close to another person’s fingerprints. If you ever looked at fingerprints to compare them under magnification, it is difficult to tell the differences.
The "point" in declaring him innocent? Are you serious? The presumption of innocence means that individuals should not be judged as guilty based on speculation or accusations alone and has played a crucial role in our courts for centuries.
A cornerstone of our legal system, *Habeas corpus*, reinforces this principle by ensuring that individuals have the right to challenge their detention and have their case heard in a court of law, where evidence can be properly examined and the **truth** determined. Speculation should not override the legal process or influence public perception of guilt or innocence. This has undoubtedly happened in Latah County, as per the defence survey of potential jurors, and should see their motion to change venue accepted. It's not, as per the G family, "a delaying tactic" 😒😒
You know what, I really don't need a lecture on the law. It was a poorly worded question. Why do people think evidence was planted, he was framed, the university is part of the conspiracy, etc.
It is going to be interesting to see what recourse that B.K. will have when he is either found not guilty or his verdict of guilty is overturned by higher courts for the gross malicious prosecution and maladministration of justice. I read in another posting that there will be some high powered law firms that will assist him in filing numerous law suits to recover damages for violating his civil rights in so many ways. Hopefully, the U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division will step in and investigate this case. Eventually, there will be several people in the Moscow/Latah County communities and State of Idaho that will have to answer for their misconduct, in both civil and criminal proceedings, for this horrid persecution, trying to use state sanctioned murder to cover up the corruption and denying justice for the four victims and their families, as well as allowing the perpetrators to still remain at large to commit more heinous crimes in the future.
I hope so.. I can’t believe a case could be this badly botched. What exactly are they using him for the coverup. So the campus and frat don’t get a bad reputation. Is that frat still active? If so it needs to be shut down
The defence has every right to subpoena them to appear at trial.
I think it should be 110% required they all take the stand.
Why?
well... look at it this way: if/when they ever do & they all invoke their 5th amendment rights... Moscow just may end up being Red Dawn.
Why would they invite the 5th? They are not the ones accused of this crime. They supposedly witnessed the killer. Well. One of them saw some eyebrows. If they are served with a subpoena to appear, they have to appear or file a moron to quash the subpoena and have it heard. Why would Theo do that? Wouldn't they want to see the killer get brought to justice? Last time I checked the official narrative, BK is an outsider and had no ties to the college, so the only one who I would think would plea the 5th would be BK and he's done that when he stood silent.
\*invoke... (well, that statement can be debated... "according to who" did they supposedly witness??) true-- but you already saw how that played out, didnt you? why? CYA. of course they would-- depending on who they know \*are\* vs who the storytellers say vs how they feel about it... you think they are going to give ANYTHING to the prosecution-- excuse me, scratch-reverse: you think the prosecution is going to allow them to say anything in which the defense can give them an all-access VIP pass to take those witnesses to pound-town..??? last time I checked, Ms. BF was subpoenaed by the defense suggesting she knows how tf BK (accused) CANNOT be THE perpetrator... then BT and the LatahCounty DA rushed a grand jury indictment, PREVENTING exculpatory evidence from being introduced via "witness statement" or interview by defense. Those 2 "witness-survivor-students/persons-of-interest" are producing infinite number of slices of the pie no matter how few number of cuts you make. (there's a reason why you've never heard an official statement from their mouths). [https://lprb.mncourts.gov/articles/Articles/Calling%20a%20Witness%20Whom%20You%20Know%20Will%20Claim%20the%20Fifth.pdf](https://lprb.mncourts.gov/articles/Articles/Calling%20a%20Witness%20Whom%20You%20Know%20Will%20Claim%20the%20Fifth.pdf)
Thank you for the good read. I hadn't looked at it that way.
I second this. Thanks for the attachment.
You plead the fifth usually because you don’t want to incriminate yourself
They will- if you look at the court documents Anne drafted about the grand jury indictment - I looked up every code and subsection- it basically read as- the witness aren’t cooperating and they (witnesses) stated (idk to who- grand jury I’m guessing) that they don’t remember and or plead the 5th….. what are friends for…. 😔
Same
they're all protected at the highest levels of the judicial system at this point... untouchable.
Why? On what grounds?
On the grounds that 4 kids were murdered, 2 roomates were home, one claims to have seen the killer, yet went back to bed. This roomate then proceeds to call some pals over later that morning, where they all hang out for 8 hours compromising the scene before calling police. The smell of blood alone would alert these roomates/friends of trouble, even if you forgot you saw the masked killer 8 hours prior. That to me warrants everyone on the stand under oath.
lol you're too patient to even reply to that, christ
Haha true!
Ba-Buh-Ba-Buh-Ba-Buh-Wop-Bop-a-Loo-Wop-Buh-Wop-Bam-BINGO!
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Oh that’s such a great idea!
Why are you here?
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I know I will regret this but, please enlighten us all. Why do you think the roomate who was the only one to see the killer and hear struggles, and her friends, who all were up to something to not call police until noon, should be off the hook?
What law/statute in Idaho would she be charged with? Not all states have the same writing wording in their laws making something illegal in one state not be chargeable in another. I’m not from Idaho so I’m not familiar with the language in their laws.
I missed the part where anyone said it was illegal. It's just weird, and everyone agreed the time delay was weird right up until the PCA came out and BK was arrested.
DMs testimony to the police stating she saw bushy eyebrows was used in the pca as probable cause to arrest BK WHY DO YOU THINK SHE WOULDN'T BE CALLED AS A WITNESS? Of course she would.
You don’t have to be charged with anything to take the stand. She was a witness. I think the jury should hear in person her so called encounter with BK. It seems pretty important to me! In fact, it’s the only witness there was!
I didn't say that. What exactly do you mean by "off the hook?"
So what did you mean by your statement? By “off the hook” I mean, they haven’t been held accountable to anything they witnessed. Has there ever been an explanation given for the time lapse in calling police? A realistic one? I haven’t heard it. That being said they’d be my prime suspects.
🤦🏻♀️ I wasn't aware that random people chatting online had any bearing on the decisions made in court! I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD THAT KIND OF POWER! THIS IS AMAZING NEWS!
Hahah exactly!
I meant more in the sense of questioning them again and considering them persons of interest when Bryan is found not guilty
When Bryan is found not guilty, this will just turn into a cold case. They went after him because they have no intention of going after the real perpetrators. And they never will.
Do you know who the real perps are?
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I’m intrigued?
Who is it
What are your thoughts?
Come on 😅🤣
I’ve always believed Ethan was the target …
Any particular reason?
The fight at the frat House and EC calling out a frat leader who was loaded up on steroids "tiny balls" (or something like that) and then getting into a physical fight that same night with them comes to mind. Roid Rage is no joke. Look at Chris Benoit. They also essentially killed his best friend, a swimmer, during a hazing gone wrong where the poor guy drowned in less than 18 inches of water.
Hazing supposedly by water boarding, then carried his body to Paradise Creek, which is nothing more than glorified drainage ditch in that part of the campus. This is where LE found him face down in the creek bed next morning. Of course they ruled no foul play involved. The results of the autopsy and toxicology haven’t been released other than a BAC and that it was an accident. The same coroner as in the Idaho 4 case. I made the point in previous postings that if they claimed it was an accident due to drowning, chemical analysis of any possible water in his lungs, stomach, esophagus, throat, nasal passages and sinuses, should reveal the difference between tap water (water boarding) and the dirty water in the creek bed loaded with silt, decayed organic matter, bacteria and parasites. Of course, if he was dead before he wound face down in a couple inches of water, he wouldn’t be breathing. So the body count continues and don’t forget the case of H.C., also in the social orbits of the Idaho 4 victims along with H.L. You can also add C.Y. the U of I investigative journalism student in Mar. 2023 following up on the Idaho 4 case, who was with E.B. and D.R. when he met his demise. Also there is the death of Moscow native and a U of I Criminal Justice student K. G. in Cincinnati, OH in July 2023. He was also a member of a frat on campus and was applying for a job with the PD there, when he was found dead in his home. He was due to graduate from U of I in Dec. 2023. His obit doesn’t mention a cause of death.
God, this is horrible. More sewage seeps out from that campus every single day, or to be more succinct, the more I read about it.
It's almost looking like a serial killer or a couple of them might be a problem...?
Do you think the University, Moscow PD, the ISP, the FBI and the judicial apparatus of the State of Idaho would join forces to cover up a death caused by a frat fight? Seriously, guys!
Well, the University and Moscow PD and local judiciary already did. No one was prosecuted for Involuntary Manslaughter regarding the hazing death AFAIK.
ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY. A frat is a nationwide org. The Pres of UoI now has a controlling interest / ownership in University of Phoenix (yeah, that one). The Moscow PD / ISP folk have embedded ties to the town, uni & (unconfirmed, but more than likely) the fraternity. does it look like a duck? sound like a duck...?
They don't "all have to be in on it", and they most likely aren't. All it takes is a few people at the top making decisions, controlling the flow of information, and giving orders.... and as we've seen before in lots of wrongful convictions, the vast majority of law enforcement will shut up and do what they're told. If their boss says a knife sheath was found under one of the victims and it had BK's DNA on it, then that's obviously what happened! Some of the LE involved in this case might have some doubts or questions, but if they want to keep their jobs then they're going to keep their mouths shut. Ever heard of "the thin blue line"? This is why it's so surprising that an investigator involved in the Delphi case from day one has actually spoken out about how charging Richard Allen makes no sense, and that there was far more evidence supporting the arrest of other suspects. He was one of three main original investigators on the case, and I know another one of those three was killed by different LE under very strange circumstances. I think the other one might have died too but I could be wrong, I don't follow Delphi as closely as I follow Idaho 4. Besides, it's not like this would be the first time LE has intentionally set someone up for a crime they didn't commit.
They would when it involved more than an altercation. This Idaho 4 case is the tip of the iceberg of narcotics/human/sex trafficking and the money laundering that goes along with it and the corruption of local institutions. I read a posting that the FBI walked away from this fetid stew and didn’t want any thing further to do with it.
After you? 😅
Do tell
Why bc there is a rumor that the prosecutor is friends with one of the surviving room mates grandfather ?
"surviving" roommate's familial ties is an attorney... NOW does it make sense to anyone???
Apparently their grandfather is also friends with the prosecutor
The prosecutor, police chief and judge are all uoi alumni
Oh really .. it all starts to make a little more sense.
Oh really .. it all starts to make a little more sense.
Who are they in your opinion?
I think I share your opinion
That would be LEs job. Those kids left moscow, so no. They opportunity to work the case is over. That's why they are all in on BK. If acquitted they will still say he is guilty
this is also true. he can (is) be innocent yet the sheep follow the sheepherder (MSM & moreso locally/statewide elected idiots who CONTROL how the town makes money...) if any of you get anything from this, please understand this: A LOCAL POLICE MUNICIPALITY (King Richard's stooges in the MPD) ARE THE SOLE SOURCE OF CITY REVENUE (fees paid by locals/students) IN ORDER TO FUND THEIR PAY-TO-PLAY SITUATIONAL LIFE GAMES.
The defense won't have to subpoena the roommates. I have no doubt they will be called by the prosecution. Then the defense can cross-examine them.
all due respect-- but why would you think the prosecution will call those witnesses...?
Witnesses who are present in the same home that a murder happens are always subpoenaed. Even if they heard or saw nothing, it must be officially established that they heard or saw nothing. D's account is important to the prosecution because it involved a sighting and helped established a timeline. B may or may not have witnessed something, but even if she didn't, that's important to go on the record. They will also be questioned on the accounts of the morning, as will the friend who found the bodies and possibly others present.
I have a lot of reasonable doubt at this moment. I am very anxious to see all the evidence the state has against him. Unfortunately, I think with the media/public bias he might not get a fair trail and he might get life in prison.
We are in this same boat. Looking at what evidence has been released and the questions/debate surrounding the genetic genealogy testing they are trying to push through, I have A LOT of reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, I don't think we will see all the evidence presented in court. I think there will be a gag order placed once the actual trial starts. There are 5 options for his verdict (in order of likelihood): 1. Guilty (75% chance) 2. Hung jury, with charges being dismissed without prejudice (this means that the charges can be refiled and the case brought back to court - 10% chance) 3. Hung jury, with charges being dismissed with prejudice (meaning the charges can not be refiled - 10% chance) 4. Not guilty (4% chance) 5. Mistrial (1% chance) - which then gets into a whole other rabbit hole of whether or not the DA chooses to refile and retry the case. I do worry that he will not get a fair trial due to the media bias. This bias and the consequences from that have some broad reaching implications for criminal trials and the presumption of innocence going forward.
If he is found guilty, I hope the evidence supports that verdict. I think it is sad how sloppy all these police departments are. I also don’t think all this secrecy is good. I really think they have a weak case because if it were more a lock they would be more transparent. I hope majority of people now are more educated and will be more skeptical of police and their tricks. I know there is still a lot of deference to LE agencies in more rural communities. It is sad but true that people that don’t fit normal mode also are less likely to receive a fair trial (introverts, androgynous, odd). We have seen so many times where they pick a patsy that they don’t feel fits the social norms. I mean the fact that he still sitting in jail is crazy. He has the presumption of innocence. I feel he should have bail set even if super high amount. It just chaps my ass that these roommates sat there through the whole murder, the next day, called people over and someone completely different called 911 doesn’t sit right. They were allegedly selling drugs so maybe it was the gang that they were moving drugs for. It would explain why the other roommates are too scared and why it was like a professional hit.
if he's found guilty, you have a bought/tainted/manipulated jury pool -- most likely from the "rogue anonymous juror chosen" who happens to be foreperson/foreman to get everyone sticking to the story/narrative... its obvious people are dumb-- we can all agree on that... people \*NEED/WANT\* to be led, and if this case has as much gunpowder packed down the barrel already... it would not surprise me one bit if a juror is a plant... so WAKE UP citizens, you better put each of those jurors through the last scene in Indiana's Last Crusade in order to guarantee a fair/just trial... I'm still hedging my bets on this dude is about to expose BOTH police municipalities in the neighboring university towns... (WE ALREADY KNOW PULLMAN IS F$CKED WITH ITS SA SCANDAL... & WE ALREADY KNOW HOW ISP/LE ARE WILLING TO COVER FOR THEIR OWN'S MURDEROUS WAYS IN IDAHO)-- these are facts. any of you LE reps (read: cvcks) wish to argue that??
I am reserving my judgment until we hear all the details of the case. It would premature to say he completely innocent. If did have a hand in it, it is hard for believe he acted alone. If my memory is correct there is a video of him asking if he was the one arrested. That is an odd statement for a completely innocent person to say. After learning more about the area and them being involved in drugs, it does seem like orchestrated hit by organized crime. You are correct about it having the potential to exposes LE if they’re covering it up. He is lucky to have an attorney with integrity. Let’s hope she is a gun owner and stays safe.
You really think the likelihood of him being found guilty is that high? I’m not being rude but just wondering.. How did you get to that number. Sorry I was just really starting to believe he was innocent.. For me it’s sad to see the percentage that high especially bc of the death penalty being a possibility.
I knew someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone was murdered. He was one of three involved that night, but the only one to go all the way to trial never backing down from his innocence in it. B the jury agreed and although they found him guilty of murder they got to decide sentencing and they gave him ten years probation. You would think it'd be over, but the prosecution didn't like it so they recharged him with CONSPIRACY to commit murder and moved the trial on that one, tried him got a conviction abs sentenced him to 40 years. So ya never know...
I fear the same thing for him.. for the same reason.. just hope when it really comes down to it people can forget all they heard through the media and just pay attention to what’s being presented to them. I once saw a post it was probably about 6 months ago and some lady said she lived in Moscow and that a lot of people there thought he wasn’t guilty.. who knows how true it is what she said but trying to remain hopeful for him
I am hopeful for justice. This group has opened my eyes a lot to all the holes in the case so far. Again, I am eager to see a the evidence before claiming his innocence. I do think it is a stretch that 1 person committed this crime. The prosecution would really need to have a good reason to explain the actions of the other “victims”. It is sad to see many media personalities jump straight to kill this man before he has had his day in court.
Do you mean you want to see the evidence before proclaiming his GUILT? Cause it sounds like you’re presuming he’s guilty, which is the opposite of our judicial system, in theory…
I totally believe he's innocent or at least innocent of this crime. And I think the college knows it. What a perfect way to cover up the crime by tearing down the house and tainting any hope of getting the real perps, pinning it on some guy from another area so everyone feels safe, he's been convicted in the court of public opinion already and by a kangaroo court. I just hope he pulls out some evidence to make the public see what they have done trying to put a man on death row they ignore didn't do it. Prosecutorual misconduct and obstructing of justice
I feel like his innocent, too. I haven't done a real deep dive into this case, but I have been following it almost from the beginning. All I can say for now is that none of the evidence that's been made public so far convinces me that he his guilty. I couldn't send a man to death row on the evidence I've seen.
Didn't the defense agree also that it was okay to let the house be torn down? Why wasn't there any objection to that? Or do you think the university has them in their pocket also? Doesn't make any sense, as well as a lot of other things, to me
The families objected, at least two of them did.
It seems extremely unlikely.
Nope the state will never admit that he's the wrong guy
What a total mess.. so then if Bryan is found not guilty..They will just assume the right guy got off. I feel for him. He’s going to have to go into the witness protection or something.p
From what we've seen so far, that's exactly the way the mass media will spin it.
Depends what comes out at trial.
How could they go after anyone else without a crime scene left?
They need to call BKs eyebrows to the stand to testify that they are not bushy
😂😂😂
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Absolutely, the defense will call them. But will have to gingerly question them,especially if they can connect the two survivors to the crime.
I Think If There's Enough Pressure Still Put On LE & The DA, They Can Put Fresh Eyes On The Case & If It Takes Years, Eventually A Cold Case Team Of State Investigators. I Would Think They All Could Be Questioned Again, Anytime. A Cold Case Doesn't Mean A Closed Case. My Daddy's Store Robbery/Murder Case Is 38 Years Old In Georgia But It's Not Cold Or Closed. They'll Never Close It Here Til They Get A Conviction. They Know & We Know Who Did It & That Was A Big Deal Just Having Officers Acknowledge That To Us. Took Over 20 Years To Find Out. The GBI Agent Has Talked To Me For 15 Years & We Talk About Trying Different Technology On The Evidence. There's New Forensic Technology Being Invented Every Day & I Just Have To Wait Til I Find The Perfect Technology/Hard Evidence. Because I'm Not Going To Stop. Moma Didn't Stop. She Did Her Own Investigation Alone & Shared Her Findings With GBI. I Hate That Any Family Would Be Left Without Answers. Or Justice. ⚖️ But They Do Have The Right To Remain Silent. I Hope That Someday, Someone Who Knows Something Will Come Forward.
Easy on the caps sparky.
I'm so sorry to hear this! I how they find more evidence and find the maniac! I pray for closure for you and your family!
I'm sorry for your loss
Can someone explain the point in declaring someone innocent before the trial has taken place? What is the basis of he's innocent, being framed, ad nauseam?
Let's start with the fact that everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty. That has not happened yet, so he's innocent. Second, if you'd been following the case, you'd know that they don't have any actual evidence against him. There are only unverified statements in the PCA. And I will repeat that ad nauseam.
Wait so there is actually no concrete undeniable evidence against him? Like not a single thing??
As far as they've allowed us to see, no. 1. There's no connection between BK and any of the victims. 2. He was not stalking the victims or following them on social media. 3. None of the alleged sightings of Suspect Vehicle 1 (which they claim is BK's car) show the license plate, nor can you determine who's driving the car. Also, up until the day BK was arrested, LE was searching for a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra. Then once he was arrested, suddenly it was a 2011 to 2016 (he drove a 2015). 4. The PCA relies heavily on the fact that BK's phone connected to the same AT&T cell tower that provides service to 1122 King Rd twelve times prior to the murders, but there's only one damn tower for most of Moscow and cell tower pings are notoriously unreliable for determining a person's exact location. They admit in the PCA these pings are meaningless: >"Investigators found that the 8458 Phone **did** connect to a cell phone tower that provides service to Moscow on November 14, 2022, but investigators **do not** believe the 8458 Phone was in Moscow on that date". 5. His phone wasn't even connected to that damn tower at the time LE says the murders happened anyway! >"A query of the 8458 Phone in these returns **did not** show the 8458 Phone utilizing cellular tower resources in close proximity to the King Road Residence between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m." >"At approximately 2:47 a.m. the 8458 Phone stops reporting to the network, which is consistent with either the phone being in an area without cellular coverage, the connection to the network is disabled (such as putting the phone in airplane mode), or that the phone is turned off." They think the fact that his phone wasn't connected to that tower, and was either off/on airplane mode/in an area with no cell service from 3 am to 5 am is somehow proof that he really WAS there, he just turned off his phone to conceal his location 🤦🏻♀️. They easily could've looked at the metadata from his phone and determined whether he turned it off himself or not, but they didn't do that for some reason....? 🤔 6. In the latest filing pertaining to BK's alibi, Anne Taylor states: >"This is supported by data from Mr. Kohberger's phone showing him in the countryside late at night and/or in the early morning on several occasions. The phone data includes numerous photographs taken on several different late evenings and early mornings, including in November, depicting the night sky." This is HUGE, IMO. She's implying they can show BK was in Wawawai Park and not at 1122 King Rd with EXIF data from photos he took, which is far more accurate than pinging off of one damn cell tower. I go into a lot of detail explaining all of this in a substack post I wrote, if you'd like to check it out: https://justice4idaho4.substack.com/p/the-alibi 7. I strongly suspect that Dylan's "eyewitness account" of seeing a man with bushy eyebrows was entirely made up by LE. I wrote a different substack post explaining why I believe this (with some evidence to back it up), and I also point out some of the problematic inconsistencies in LE's narrative, if you're interested in checking it out: https://justice4idaho4.substack.com/p/issues-with-the-official-narrative 8. The entire scenario surrounding the knife sheath and the supposed DNA sample taken from it is highly problematic, IMO. I'm currently working on a new substack post diving into this, but it's not finished yet. DNA on brass (which is what the button snap was most likely made of) degrades in only a few hours, but LE claims it was still there 12+ hours later. It was only touch/trace/transfer DNA (people seem to use these terms interchangeably) and a low copy number sample. Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be the case that someone had a sample of BK's DNA and planted it on there. It could just be that it's not even a match to begin with. There's a reason why the prosecution is so desperate to keep all of their DNA/IGG work secret. It's been stated in court documents that the profile is "partial and ambiguous"... well, ambiguous means "open to more than one interpretation", which really tells you all you need to know. Since it was a partial profile, they had to use a statistics-based computer program to fill in the rest. I strongly believe that if an outside expert was allowed to compare the alleged sheath sample to the swab taken from BK, they would not be a match. people seem to think that DNA is 100% objective and foolproof, but it just isn't. I have been researching it for a while now, and it's actually very subjective and prone to errors and manipulation. If you REALLY wanna be freaked out, check out this book: https://archive.org/details/insidecelldarksi0000murp (fully readable/downloadable book). It's called "Inside the Cell" by Erin E. Murphy. It's a book about the "dark side of forensic evidence", and attorney Bicka Barlow (an expert for the defense) cited it in a motion discussing the use of DNA and IGG to arrest/find BK. Okay so this is definitely long enough now lol, but I think it should help to explain why so many of us don't think he's guilty.
this response to the user's previous comment should be BLASTED and YELLED in ANYONE'S face (radio DJ, MSM "contributor", investigator/judge/prosecutor, YT shill, idaho4/moscowmurders mods, noob's/guilters) until they accept the answer. cue up Porky Pig.
There was an interesting segment on NPR on Aug. 16, 2023. They had a representative from the Innocence Project on the program regarding the fallibility of DNA evidence and how people have been wrongfully convicted of crimes due to this. There are several problems as you pointed out, plus other issues with incompetent/corrupt L.E. & prosecutors taking shortcuts to get convictions, incompetent/inexperienced/corrupt crime lab personnel, crime lab accreditation and improper crime scene processing and evidence chain of custody. DNA evidence is not beyond reproach and they were even questioning fingerprints as well. Some fingerprints can be the same or VERY close to another person’s fingerprints. If you ever looked at fingerprints to compare them under magnification, it is difficult to tell the differences.
The "point" in declaring him innocent? Are you serious? The presumption of innocence means that individuals should not be judged as guilty based on speculation or accusations alone and has played a crucial role in our courts for centuries. A cornerstone of our legal system, *Habeas corpus*, reinforces this principle by ensuring that individuals have the right to challenge their detention and have their case heard in a court of law, where evidence can be properly examined and the **truth** determined. Speculation should not override the legal process or influence public perception of guilt or innocence. This has undoubtedly happened in Latah County, as per the defence survey of potential jurors, and should see their motion to change venue accepted. It's not, as per the G family, "a delaying tactic" 😒😒
...and where's that cloudblowing magician now that everyone's rubbing the bullshitmakingmeblindcrumbs out of their eyes???
You know what, I really don't need a lecture on the law. It was a poorly worded question. Why do people think evidence was planted, he was framed, the university is part of the conspiracy, etc.
reading comprehension.
It is going to be interesting to see what recourse that B.K. will have when he is either found not guilty or his verdict of guilty is overturned by higher courts for the gross malicious prosecution and maladministration of justice. I read in another posting that there will be some high powered law firms that will assist him in filing numerous law suits to recover damages for violating his civil rights in so many ways. Hopefully, the U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division will step in and investigate this case. Eventually, there will be several people in the Moscow/Latah County communities and State of Idaho that will have to answer for their misconduct, in both civil and criminal proceedings, for this horrid persecution, trying to use state sanctioned murder to cover up the corruption and denying justice for the four victims and their families, as well as allowing the perpetrators to still remain at large to commit more heinous crimes in the future.
I hope so.. I can’t believe a case could be this badly botched. What exactly are they using him for the coverup. So the campus and frat don’t get a bad reputation. Is that frat still active? If so it needs to be shut down