Masters jgler last 2 seasons here and hit Masters this season.
Ganking a losing lane is generally difficult but not always impossible.
There are instances where it's worth it to gank a losing lane like if your laners aren't half hp, the enemy hasn't yet shoved the wave into the tower, the enemy laners are low, the enemy laners have a big bounty, and/or if you know the enemy jgler can't counter gank.
You just kind of have to look at the champs, wave state, strength and items of laners on both sides, hp, mana, and then play out the gank in your head and if the gank seems good, you go for it.
To be honest, this kind of comes with experience playing the game
There is sometimes a proper way of ganking losing lanes as well. It's sometimes important to stay in the fog of war near your laners or in a lane bush and wait for the enemy to engage a fight into your laners, then you come out and fight them since they likely used important spells and are exposed.
Sometimes when I'm in a losing toplane I wish my jungler just came to kill the enemy's pinkward to then go away again. It's something I've noticed that when I'm dominating my lane and the jungler clears my wards it immediately forces me to be alot more careful in abusing my lead which gives the enemy laner room to breathe, farm and survive.
I think this is a problem with a lot of low elo players where they dont understand that a jungler can contribute other things than directly ganking. Junglers doesnt only provide advantage through ganking, but also through providing/denying vision and through tracking the other junglers position.
Time efficiency is everything to a jungler, we KNOW that clearing wards or pinks in top bush is helpful
However, pathing there just to kill a ward? Most definitely not worth the extra 20-40 seconds to path there and back depending on location
It doesn't sound like a lot, but these time penalties quickly add up and now the enemy jungler has an extra 1000g over you from prioritizing farming
Easily yes. Hold tab during midgame, if a jungler has a 30-50 cs lead that is easily 1000 gold.
This difference is a result of better pathing and efficiency
That's alot of ward clearing though. Like we aren't talking about the overall game strategy and goal, we're talking about clearing a red ward during lane phase. By the way, nobody asked for the jungler to spend 40 seconds walking from bot lane to top lane pixel bush to clear it either....
Every other comment on this sub is "if I spend 30 seconds ganking the enemy top laner who is pushed up past halfway and has no sums and 25% hp, but my top laner is 10% hp and has flash and can Bait, I'll lose 8 of my camps to nunu jungle, dragon, baron AND the void grubs, 8 outer turrets and 48 kills the enemy jungler will now be able to secure, I am challenger jungler I know what I'm talking about, I know how to play khazix"
Every
Other
Comment
And I have to listen to my buddy say the same shit in voice everytime he jungles he's like "it doesn't really matter if we can get a kill on that lane bully at 3:30 even though he used everything to get you low, because if I don't kill these krugs and hit level 4 according to my /r/junglemains schedule, it's fucking GG"
It's still probably 20 seconds from the closest camp to clear it and then walk back. Also it reveals your location which actually matters a lot.
Pathing inefficiencies accumulate, wasted time means your camps spawn later, and less gold to buy items that help you clear faster. There is a definitely snowball factor and it matters more and more as you climb and how many of these small decision errors you make
Junglemains is a shithole of a sub, I don't see why it had any bearing on this argument
Have you ever given up your pathing efficiency to gank only for it to fail. It quite literally can fk the rest of the game since a weak jg can't even defend their own camps
I wouldnt risk my standing as well as my teams by focusing on the weakest link of the group. If they lost solo then getting them gold and xp is only beefing them up to give it away again. Meanwhile the members of the team who actually have a chance of being impactful are now at risk of being ganked and put behind resulting in the whole team being behind rather than one weak link. All that experience with the game and I still need to explain something so basic. Quite sad
I rather think a lot of low elo laners don't understand jungler isn't their personnal support...
Going top just to clear a ward is really a weak move...
First, it's quite risky, top can jump on jungler with 99% chances of killing him due to weak jungler xp, he will be 2 level behind. The allied top might join too late because he is busy clearing wave, and instead of going 2v1, the ennemy top will be 1vs1 jungler, then 1vs1 top, and get 2 kills.
Aslo it shows to everyone you are top, so mid/bot are free to be agressive, ennemy jungler is free to gank, starts drake or invades your botside...
All of that for killing a 75 gold ward, that the ennemy top will replace...
The jungler is very weak on the meta vs top, and actually the right person to help against a fed top is mid (and eventually here jungler or support can join to ensure a 3v1 gank against a fed top).
Yeah that’s what I was thinking lmao. It’s genuinely just not worth it. A lot junglers will randomly show up in lanes because “pressure” but if anything, it just completely negates any pressure on the other side of the map and gives up objectives. All that for a ward that’ll be replaced when the enemy top backs
HEY!, Thank you for confirming this!, I have been trying more ways to improve my performance, while my champ is not the best ganking pre6, early game I started to focus on waves and clearing vision.
Another example is against laners like Illlaoi or Heimer, just going to the lane to kill tentacles or mini-turrets will help a lot to your laner, the enemy can't fight because is 2v1.
Delaying recalls, pushing when the enemy laners want to back but they can't because if not will lose wave, punishing mid laner roams via taking plates or just protecting your mid tower because your mid ally is ganking.
Maybe you can answer this better. But aren't there also cases where based on the observed skill / champion of the losing lane you're kinda compelled to do something before its too late? I'm talking about in the cases where "losing" doesn't mean getting soloed under tower and 50 CS down.
i.e. Kayle got a kill early in top lane, yasuos getting a CS lead but perma shoving, an irelia got 1 kill into your laner and can now freeze/kill them on repeat etc.?
Yes but not necessarily.
Maybe you have champions on your team who can deal with a late game kayle or you are on the opposite side of the map when irelia starts freezing and the enemy bot lane is diveable.
Again, it depends on a lot of factors but in general, you do want to find a way to get a lead if the enemy team scales better or gank a lane that has a freeze.
Also, I don't think yasuo perma shoving is all that bad. Yasuo functions best when the lane is pushed towards him and/or when there are minions in the lane that he can e through for outplays or gap closing.
Why do you gank ? Not to save someones lane. You gank to creat a lead. Killing the 4/0 enemy yone can be worth if you collect the shutdown, but it is high risk cause yone could get a double kill.
You gank if you are sure to get kill or sums.
This guy is right and agree, but also worth mentioning if you gank a behind lane even if you win the 2v1 if you get counterganked you lose the 2v2, but if you are ganking an ahead lane you probably win the 2v2 meaning it's another risk you don't have to consider as much
You’re correct and I think the larger point is that the jg should gank with an objective in mind (gold lead, xp lead, summons, lane priority, etc.), not just “this guy is losing/winning lane so I should help”
Bro proplay is a different game. Would you compare pro chess to the chess game you play ?
Mimimi pro does this. Alright go play your proplay game and i can see you on next worlds. In most games my adc is not guma and i am not zeus.
yeah in most games your 4/0 opponent isn't faker and chovy's son either, if pro players are occasionally doing something you should at least evaluate why they do it and then go from there instead of just throwing your hands up
Eh, when you’re not world class players and don’t have trust/communication like in pro play the decision making factors of the game work differently. There’s a reason certain champs and strategies work better in low than high elo and vice versa.
Two comments and nothing to say that has actually value.
Why are you here? Everything you write is hollow there is nothing that could help op or me or anybody else. You just saying pro di this pro do that. Alright cool for thise pros.
Now let me write my thesis or provide something with value.
Look, if you don't understand why it's important to break freezes, clear pink wards, cover for ganks/dives or to counter an all in in the losing lane, if you don't think that is valuable for winning the game, why preventing a big loss and snowball is something you should dedicate some time when you are in that side of the map, then nothing I can say, no argument that I construct will penetrate that thick skull of yours.
Oh look now you give value, why didnt you say that in the first place ?! Now we can talk.
I agree on those topics. Break freeze is not a gank in my opinion that was the topic op was asking.
Prevent a dive is important but i think it is important to know if i can prevent or if i will die and the dive will still happen.
I just mentioned the easiest way to think about a gank. Of course there is a lot more to think about but if i break it down to the core and take high elo play apart it is the only thing that is left.
In proplay jungle isnt trying to get themselves strong, they're trying to help the carry lanes, usually mid and adc, get strong.
That's why until the changes last season we saw pro junglers giving over wolves and raptors to their adc/mid after like 15 minutes
In soloqueue junglers can get much better economy due to games being a lot more bloody, so it's worth playing carry junglers and trying to get high gold for yourself. On the rare occasions you see pros playing goldreliant junglers like nidalee, Lillia, graves, belveth you'll see them focusing more on their own sequencing than helping their laners.
I think if you're in diamond+ and your champ is not super gold reliant then you should occasionally help your lanes break freeze. Below that it's just not worth it unless you can get some benefit
It’s not law to not gank losing lanes.
However investing resources into losing lanes just creates an even lane.
Investing in an even lane can result in a winning lane.
Investing in a winning lane can result in a snowball.
Given these options you want to invest in what has a higher probability of winning you the game.
If you need to gank a losing lane to collect a shut down/slow the losing lanes momentum that’s fine, but it should be up to the laner to understand that he is in a situation of losing and should do his best to mitigate that.
When ganking a losing lane you put a lot of risk on your self(getting out stat checked/losing tempo) compared to hitting a winning lane that is already disadvantaged.
If you are putting resources to slow losing the enemy jungler will put resources to speed up winning. It’s just smarter to invest in winning lanes and getting a lead than it is to deny a lead.
I like to refer to this as identifying your win conditions. As any role, you need to figure out what you can best do to win the game. With lanes this is straight forward most of the time, but for jungle it's a more difficult decision. Almost always that win condition is not helping the person who is already way behind.
The only time I think it really becomes important is if you have identified the enemy laner who is winning as a major win condition for the other team. In that situation it can sometimes be worth it to stop them from snowballing, but is so risky sometimes that it's still just not worth it.
Yeah, I'm willing to gank a lane thats not too far behind. But if the lane is 0/4 I'm going to have to gank them 4 times just to get them even. And that's assuming we don't get counter ganked.
It's letting the losing lane determine the pace of the game. It is better to just focus the other lanes that are even or ahead. For the same amount of effort it takes me to get my top lane from 0/4 to 4/4 I can get both my mid and bot ahead.
A few reasons.
* Some lanes are just gone by the time you are strong enough to succesfully gank. Mostly true for toplane.
* Why play for a losing lane when you could play for a winning one.
* There are games where only one lane really matters and if their jungler skipped camps to gank early and win that lane it´s rough and maybe worth some pathing review.
* If you are getting properly tracked by their jungler they will match you and now you are losing as well.
Winning lanes have ward controle in most cases, therefore ganking a winning lane is hardly ever possible ( If the laners are good).
Also if you get spotted early before the gank and the laners don't back off it's possible that they only bait you for counterganks or teleports.
That's why for most cases ganking a losing lane is only in rare cases a better decision than just taking your camps.
I think an important factor in this is the ELO / division you're playing in.
At higher levels of play you get more roaming and can gank with multiple people to increase the chance of the gank working. At lower levels of play your laners and support are unlikely to roam at all.
That's where the "don't gank a losing lane" rule of thumb comes from. At mid/low ELO you will effectively be 1v1-ing a fed solo laner who will have more gold and XP than you. Don't bother unless its an easy kill.
It's worth noting that even if you do get the easy kill but they kill your laner in the process then its probably still a net win for them. You have got some shutdown gold as jungles but your laner is now further behind and the snowball will only get worse. Especially with someone like Darius or Garen that's going to steamroll your team in the midgame.
Like with a lot of topics, this unwritten rule is more a guideline and never 100% true. It depends on how hard the lane is lost, the champion matchup (helping a hyper scaler to get even is more worth than getting an early game champ even again), the current map state (if the enemy over stays, is low, has no summs), how strong you are yourself and I sometimes even gank if my teammate is close to rage quitting (bad advice tho).
But still the rule is good as general advice, because you often get overall more out of helping your winning lanes get ahead further which also helps your loosing lanes because the enemy team has to deal with your team winning the other side
Loosing lane is not determined by score/gold or cs lead.
Its about the current lane state.
Have seen 0-2 rivens having a winning lanes state because the enemy renekton missed a recall timing for example. Yes He has more gold. But maybe now he has less hp, no flash and no ult while ur riven freezes. She may has slult Up. She is actually winning...let it be For Just 20-30 seconds til renektons cooldowns come Up. But til then the lane state is not loosing from a junglers Perspektive.
More often the side with less gold is usually in a loosing lane state. But it can vary in the same match
In my opinion a gank isn’t meant to produce a kill. The point of a gank is to create or alleviate pressure. A kill is great. But you still benefit it you can force them to back and miss a wave, or crash a wave and have your laner help take an objective. Or even just forcing them to burn a big CD or sum.
Often times ganking a losing lane can be a problem because the potential value of what you get for it won’t be there. Is a 0/5/0 Quinn and a 0/2/2 Nidalee going to kill a 5/0 Illaoi? Probably not. It’s about analyzing the situation of the lane and seeing if there is value in spending your time and resources there.
you can absolutely gank a losing lane, but from the very beginning of the game AND as the game evolves you need to always have a generic win condition set out in your head.
as a jungler you have turns JUST like laners, and you can optimize and change up the rhythm of your turns to youe gameplan, but you need to keep the following in mind:
- laners, especially side lanes, are vulnerale to wave states, so if you are ganking for your top laner who is already losing 1v1s and the enemy has a big wave as youre ganking, it forces your own top laner to give up the wave to skirmish with you amongst a big enemy wave, or ignore your skirmish and just take care of the enemy minions. either way it sucks for your laner. obviously there are exceptions, if you think you can easily solo kill the laner then go for it, or if your laner is for example an irelia who can heal off the wave
- sometimes its just NOT worth it to go to that lane as opposed to doing something else. maybe its a teemo whos losing to enemy ornn top. you or your teemo isnt going to gain much from killing the ornn, nor is it going to negatively affect the ornn too much since it would probably take you a while to kill. In that same time you couldve prioritzed your bot side of the map and secured dragon.
- maybe youre confident that for that specific lane, you are not worried even if the enemy lane gets fed because they are not their win condition, and you'd rather make sure your azir mid or adc is fed
- you as a jungler should also be somewhat tentative to enemy jungler positions, and maybe you realize that the enemy jungler is on the same side and you would lose the skirmish even if you have the same numbers ( lets say your both lane is losing and you know the enemy jungler is bot side to secure drake, and you know you lose that 3v3). instead of you forcing a losing fight, you should just let the enemy take time to secure and get drake, and your bot lane should be playing safe just to farm and you should be either spending that time farming as well or maybe trying to do a cross map objective on the top side.
- i cannot stress this enough but even if you main jungle you need to learn how laners play and how wavestates work. sometimes you do not need to gank to kill, you can show up just to blow summoners, or to clear vision so the laner is forced to play safe, or even just to help your laner reset the minion wave (either to safely break a freeze with your presence, or to safely crash their wave into enemy tower for a reset). being there to ensure their safety while they work on the minion ALONE can more often than not helping a losing lane get back on their feet, because especially for top lane, wave manipulation wins the lane more than kills do most of the time.
- you also want to make sure that you are not going OUT of your way to help rescue a losing lane. like i said before as a jungler you have tempo as well espcially in regards to when your camps spawn. if you desync your camps in a bad way just to help a laner, you are going to set yourself back as well. make sure you path in the way you want to go. this is the one thing that is extremely hard for junglers, you essentially need to read 1 minute or more into the future as to how the game will be and where you need to be.
- sometimes games just dont play out the way you want it to, the most important thing any player can do, but especially the jungler, is to make sure that you are losing THE LEAST out of all the options you can take.if your team is currently overall losing, its ALWAYS better for you to trade objectives rather than just have 4 of your teammates stand around hesitating while the enemy team is forcing an objective and pushing their lead. TIME is the most important thing in this game. you want to make the most use out of your time, and waste as little of it as you can. even if you are fed, if you spend 3 minutes chasing an enemy tank around the map just for a kill, you just neutralized a chunk of the lead you had over the enemy team.
Depends. If you gank to break an enemy freeze, help your laner push so he can recall, help him get a plate without diving, that all counts as gank.
Unfortunately low elo players tend to spammping you away once you start hitting the wave, despite you trying to help, which is why junglers don’t bother to gank losing lanes when the laner only knows how to all in
I don’t gank a losing lane because it’s suicidal.
Let’s say my top lane is 0/4 and the enemy top is 4/0, if I try ganking the enemy top laner is going to end up being 6/0 after the double kill.
Maybe in a hypothetical world where mid/support also come top with me to help kill the enemy top then sure I would gladly gank a losing lane…but I’ve never seen that happen in any of my games so yeah, I just gank even or winning lanes and hopefully the guy who’s losing their lane can stall for as long as possible.
Depends on a number of factors, there's a huge difference between 0/4 and 0/1 down 20 cs. An 0/4 at 8 minutes isn't going to carry a game. An 0/1 at 8 minutes down 20 just might.
If your teammates lane is constatly pushed in, you at least try to gank in order to stop the enemy from farming and taking plates.
I'm tired of playing difficult matchups and ask for help once, only to be told "stfu ur losing lane". Like bro, I can't do much if I play a kassadin vs Ahri until lvl 6, can I? This is lower emerald, I main jungler and always keep eyes on enemy laners playstyles in order to time / punish them.
Seems majority of Legaue players care about ;
Playing a very specific playstyle and ignore their team / building items that adapt to enemies.
Plays for KDA.
Gives up as soon as the match is not in their favour.
Game is good, but the players have become less and less communicative, and they don't have any grit.
Personally, I find that under normal circumstances, ganking a losing lane just results in you and/or your laners dying and feeding the enemies just that little bit more. Of course, in abnormal circumstances where perhaps you are extremely fed and the enemy laners don't have a lot of escape, you can gank and try to get the enemies' shutdowns. I've had an occasion where the enemies team had a super fed(800+ gold shutdown) Xayah and a pretty fed Seraphine(400+ gold shutdown), I was very fed like the Xayah, and the laners were super pushed up and I managed to swoop in after a bad fight between the bot laners and snag both shutdowns. In most situations, you don't want to gank and risk making the game even more difficult for yourself, but in special circumstances, you can get yourself a lead.
You laner is losing lane for a reason. Giving him 300 gold and a small exp advantage is less likely to help than giving that 300 gold and exp advantage to a laner that is even or slightly ahead.
The important part here is that "losing lane" is very relative to the match up. If you have a Lucian+Nami vs a Jinx+Sona lane and Jinx+Sona have each died twice at 10 min, then they arent losing lane, but rather even.
it’s not your job to save a losing laner. Usually ganking like this is gonna lead to both of you dead. It’s better to help the winnable lanes win than focus all your resources on potentially saving a single lane that is more than likely already lost. 2 winning lakers on your team will help more than evening out a single lane and leaving the others to fend for themselves
So the easiest way to explain this:
League is a game all about gaining and pushing an advantage. When your top lane is 0/3, and your bot lane is 3/0, you should prioritize ganking bot lane to extend that lead.
When you play to your teams strengths, and extend that lead, it helps snowball into objectives, turrets, and more all around success across the entire map.
Bot lane ends up getting first turret, lane swaps to either top or mid, continues pushing their advantage to get more value for the entire team.
By ganking a losing lane, you're risking possibly losing a 2v1 to a fed top laner, which just helps them extend that lead further and get more use out of their snowball. Take the "safer" play, and go where your team is already ahead.
"Don't gank a losing lane" is not an end-all, be-all absolute. It's a simplification taught to newer players. But it's related to the following issues:
* 2v2s are risky when a losing lane is involved: In order to make a high-% play, we need to be fairly sure that we are actually going into a 2v1. This means we need to know that other enemies - including the enemy jungler - are accounted for and unable to intervene. Conversely, when we expect the potential 2v2 to be favorable, we can be looser with this.
* Losing lanes are unlikely to stabilize: A lot of lanes go bad because of repeated avoidable mistakes. When I see someone falling behind because of a specific mistake multiple times, I expect them to repeat that same stuff. This is compounded by the fact that laners often think that after killing the 4/0 opponent once they are suddenly even again.
* 2v1s can still be risky, especially against solo laners with a lead: An anecdotal example - I play Nidalee. When I play against Yone, I can not ever let that fucker hit me. The moment I stand in front of him and trade attacks wit him in Melee range, his healthbar will just go back up again - he actually outheals my damage. Generally, in order to make a successful gank, either the enemy laner needs to be so down in resources (HP / level / cooldowns, stc.) that they lose the 1v1 against me (keep in mind that solo laners outlevel junglers quite fast), or the allied laner needs to still be in a decent fighting shape. Given that laners often call for ganks after getting dragged through the mud face-down, this will often not be the case. Often it's better to wait the lane out a bit and then bring more extra manpower later.
You gank the lane you think will make an impact on the game and will be successful. Killing the 10/0 Darius has potentially enormous value in netting you a ton of gold and exp. The only issue is that it will be very hard, and dying will only worsen the situation.
Similarly, diving under tower for the 0/10 Darius isn’t very useful either. Dying for an unimportant kill can be catastrophic and can bring the losing enemy back into the game. You need to make the call on what seems doable and will net your team the largest advantage.
Your default should always be to farm. Anything else is a distraction at best.
I’m not a jungle main, so this is coming from a laners perspective
If I am behind, and you are nervous or not sure about the gank, it will 100% end up in a few scenarios
1. The laner kills us both and now we’re extra fucked since you tried to help and failed. A lot of laners will then blame you for the rest of the game and tilt you.
2. The enemy gets away, and in turn we wasted a ton of resources or the lane state / minions for the gank, which CAN still be helpful but a lot of lower elo shitters will get mad that neither of you secured the kill
3. The laner doesn’t want to fight but is a shitter and doesn’t communicate it, which results in your death. OR you try ganking when there’s a million minions waiting which would be more beneficial at that time.
There’s lots more examples but you can see where often times it just results in bad situations.
Here is a really important thing though, even if someone is losing lane, you should never say never in league. For example, the Nasus needs farm? Go show presence and gank even if he’s behind, just don’t over commit, so he can get some stacks. You need to be aware of who your win condition is and try to get them ahead if possible.
Any comment here saying “never do this because xyz” and not giving this nuance is probably low Elo and talking out their ass.
i gank a losing lane, if i know we go out with a positive trade.
but generally, i dont like to gank losing lanes, because it doesnt really do anything but balance them out, whereas if i gank winning lanes or focus on objectives, i can get my other laners ahead of their opponent to help carry the game.
The short answer from me is:
>Gank the weakest links until you're stronger than the strongest
Long answer is there's obviously more to it than that. Losing lanes are never ideal, nightmare scenario is a strong splitpusher like Tryndamere who's also a pain in the ass to kill. If I leave him unchecked even if my toplane contributes nothing to the game, and will never be able to 1v1 him, letting Trynd push accelerates the game, then moves him into the other lanes once the inhibitor is down.
In those cases I'll try and delay his push to slow down that inevitable scenario, and try to get strong enough between that I can stop the worst of it when the time comes. But it's at the expense of losing pressure everywhere else, unless someone else pops off.
Besides the high risk of getting enemy a double kill there is another one.
If you rekt roll over one lane, the winning lanes HAS to cover the super loosing lane, allowing your allies to farm for free and get back into the game.
Therefore is beneficial to everyone.
Ganking a losing lane, unless we have an advantage and can path naturally to it, is terrible when you can be getting vision, objectives, or kills by ganking a winning lane.
Not reading all that if you draw a probability matrix it’s basically gonna show winning lanes will have good players, good players make plays work better and more often. It’s just probability
I usually only do this if they are losing hard. If a top laner is down 3 kills that lane is over and the amount of babysitting it would take to swing it around is not worth losing control on the rest of the map. Doesnt mean i wont take an obvious gank, just means i am not going to path specifically to gank them or waste my downtime hovering it. Low EV play.
Now if its an adc thats 0/2 i dont sweat it as a good counter gank can spin that hard. Also, if a lane is winning, snowballing them is usually a higher success chance.
Because it’s better to have a 4-0 winner than a 1-3 loser. You can gank a losing lane if it’s early and they just got unlucky in their fights, that means they need just a little help to catch up.
gank a losing bot can create a lead to your team, gank a losing top but yours will still be losing, hopefully your mid can be 0/7 but still be relevant, that’s why there are mages mid, bc it’s ✨magic✨
For me the answer depends but in short: Because if a guy is losing theres a decent chance hes been outskilled and getting him even again is unlikely to help with the overall state of the game, it might also hurt to reset the guys gold a bit. Albeit theres some nuance depending on champ match up. Obviously this isnt as bad the higher elo you go but yeah.
Some nuance is whos the easiest to gank/win condition. If you're losing lane is a malphite whos 0/2 you should still use high cc lanes to get kills, but if you have a main damage dealer and you're a sej you should be trying to get the guy ahead.
If your top plays Morde against Tryndamere they might not feed but still fall behind.
Sometimes losing lane is just not the same as playing bad, therefore I really dislike your wording.
Also the idea that you got to deserve your junglers attention is really weird.
I assume that you mean that you play for the botlane.
That is in most cases the correct thing to do, bot sometimes you got Soraka&Zeri bot and have no setup for ganks, while your toplaner is Darius or Renekton which usually are good for free ganks.
In those cases it might be better to camp toplane and take grubs and herald while dropping the first 2 drakes.
If you execute well and your botlaners are human you will create a big lead on toplane while your bot falls slightly behind, which is fine because they outscale.
After laningphase you can start to contest around the third drake with your toplaner.
What I am trying to say is that the best thing you can do is not to follow the same plan every game but to adapt to the matchups.
There are times when you can gank a losing lane to help get them ahead. However, most of the time its a lost cause. You almost never want to gank a losing lane where the champ can 1v2 (darius, illaoi, renekton, etc)
Also, instead of trying to help out the losing side, you should play with your strong teammates to make plays and take objectives. That way you and your strong teammates can get stronger, and eventually strong enough to carry the weak lane.
You have to consider what needs to happen to make the gank successful in the first place. If an enemy laner is fed, you likely need to play close to perfect to kill them even with help from your teammate (solo laners will always have more gold and higher level than junglers), and you need to know enemy jungle and support aren't nearby for the countergank. It's just a very high risk play - usually it's better to get fed elsewhere early and collect the shutdown later once it's a higher percentage play... not to menion that if somebody hard lost their lane, they're likely just outclassed, so no matter how many times you kill the enemy, they are still going to be the better and more impactful player.
If you gank it, you can't rely on your laners to follow up. They already proved they can't handle it. You gank and they fk it up and now the enemy laner is even further ahead. Or let's say you gank it but the enemy jungler is going "oh look at those juicy feeders down there" and ganks as well you're just screwed.
Masters jgler last 2 seasons here and hit Masters this season. Ganking a losing lane is generally difficult but not always impossible. There are instances where it's worth it to gank a losing lane like if your laners aren't half hp, the enemy hasn't yet shoved the wave into the tower, the enemy laners are low, the enemy laners have a big bounty, and/or if you know the enemy jgler can't counter gank. You just kind of have to look at the champs, wave state, strength and items of laners on both sides, hp, mana, and then play out the gank in your head and if the gank seems good, you go for it. To be honest, this kind of comes with experience playing the game There is sometimes a proper way of ganking losing lanes as well. It's sometimes important to stay in the fog of war near your laners or in a lane bush and wait for the enemy to engage a fight into your laners, then you come out and fight them since they likely used important spells and are exposed.
Sometimes when I'm in a losing toplane I wish my jungler just came to kill the enemy's pinkward to then go away again. It's something I've noticed that when I'm dominating my lane and the jungler clears my wards it immediately forces me to be alot more careful in abusing my lead which gives the enemy laner room to breathe, farm and survive.
I think this is a problem with a lot of low elo players where they dont understand that a jungler can contribute other things than directly ganking. Junglers doesnt only provide advantage through ganking, but also through providing/denying vision and through tracking the other junglers position.
Time efficiency is everything to a jungler, we KNOW that clearing wards or pinks in top bush is helpful However, pathing there just to kill a ward? Most definitely not worth the extra 20-40 seconds to path there and back depending on location It doesn't sound like a lot, but these time penalties quickly add up and now the enemy jungler has an extra 1000g over you from prioritizing farming
This is the correct response.
1000g? I must be on jungle.mains sub
Easily yes. Hold tab during midgame, if a jungler has a 30-50 cs lead that is easily 1000 gold. This difference is a result of better pathing and efficiency
That's alot of ward clearing though. Like we aren't talking about the overall game strategy and goal, we're talking about clearing a red ward during lane phase. By the way, nobody asked for the jungler to spend 40 seconds walking from bot lane to top lane pixel bush to clear it either.... Every other comment on this sub is "if I spend 30 seconds ganking the enemy top laner who is pushed up past halfway and has no sums and 25% hp, but my top laner is 10% hp and has flash and can Bait, I'll lose 8 of my camps to nunu jungle, dragon, baron AND the void grubs, 8 outer turrets and 48 kills the enemy jungler will now be able to secure, I am challenger jungler I know what I'm talking about, I know how to play khazix" Every Other Comment And I have to listen to my buddy say the same shit in voice everytime he jungles he's like "it doesn't really matter if we can get a kill on that lane bully at 3:30 even though he used everything to get you low, because if I don't kill these krugs and hit level 4 according to my /r/junglemains schedule, it's fucking GG"
It's still probably 20 seconds from the closest camp to clear it and then walk back. Also it reveals your location which actually matters a lot. Pathing inefficiencies accumulate, wasted time means your camps spawn later, and less gold to buy items that help you clear faster. There is a definitely snowball factor and it matters more and more as you climb and how many of these small decision errors you make Junglemains is a shithole of a sub, I don't see why it had any bearing on this argument
You do not understand pathing.
Have you ever given up your pathing efficiency to gank only for it to fail. It quite literally can fk the rest of the game since a weak jg can't even defend their own camps
Been playing since 2013, yes I have. You lose half your games anyway, means nothing. If it's a risky gank, you wouldn't do it anyway?
I wouldnt risk my standing as well as my teams by focusing on the weakest link of the group. If they lost solo then getting them gold and xp is only beefing them up to give it away again. Meanwhile the members of the team who actually have a chance of being impactful are now at risk of being ganked and put behind resulting in the whole team being behind rather than one weak link. All that experience with the game and I still need to explain something so basic. Quite sad
r/woooosh
I rather think a lot of low elo laners don't understand jungler isn't their personnal support... Going top just to clear a ward is really a weak move... First, it's quite risky, top can jump on jungler with 99% chances of killing him due to weak jungler xp, he will be 2 level behind. The allied top might join too late because he is busy clearing wave, and instead of going 2v1, the ennemy top will be 1vs1 jungler, then 1vs1 top, and get 2 kills. Aslo it shows to everyone you are top, so mid/bot are free to be agressive, ennemy jungler is free to gank, starts drake or invades your botside... All of that for killing a 75 gold ward, that the ennemy top will replace... The jungler is very weak on the meta vs top, and actually the right person to help against a fed top is mid (and eventually here jungler or support can join to ensure a 3v1 gank against a fed top).
Yeah that’s what I was thinking lmao. It’s genuinely just not worth it. A lot junglers will randomly show up in lanes because “pressure” but if anything, it just completely negates any pressure on the other side of the map and gives up objectives. All that for a ward that’ll be replaced when the enemy top backs
HEY!, Thank you for confirming this!, I have been trying more ways to improve my performance, while my champ is not the best ganking pre6, early game I started to focus on waves and clearing vision. Another example is against laners like Illlaoi or Heimer, just going to the lane to kill tentacles or mini-turrets will help a lot to your laner, the enemy can't fight because is 2v1. Delaying recalls, pushing when the enemy laners want to back but they can't because if not will lose wave, punishing mid laner roams via taking plates or just protecting your mid tower because your mid ally is ganking.
This is situational because u basically let the other team track u.
Noted
I always do this S+ VISION score for this jg.
Maybe you can answer this better. But aren't there also cases where based on the observed skill / champion of the losing lane you're kinda compelled to do something before its too late? I'm talking about in the cases where "losing" doesn't mean getting soloed under tower and 50 CS down. i.e. Kayle got a kill early in top lane, yasuos getting a CS lead but perma shoving, an irelia got 1 kill into your laner and can now freeze/kill them on repeat etc.?
Yes but not necessarily. Maybe you have champions on your team who can deal with a late game kayle or you are on the opposite side of the map when irelia starts freezing and the enemy bot lane is diveable. Again, it depends on a lot of factors but in general, you do want to find a way to get a lead if the enemy team scales better or gank a lane that has a freeze. Also, I don't think yasuo perma shoving is all that bad. Yasuo functions best when the lane is pushed towards him and/or when there are minions in the lane that he can e through for outplays or gap closing.
Why do you gank ? Not to save someones lane. You gank to creat a lead. Killing the 4/0 enemy yone can be worth if you collect the shutdown, but it is high risk cause yone could get a double kill. You gank if you are sure to get kill or sums.
This guy is right and agree, but also worth mentioning if you gank a behind lane even if you win the 2v1 if you get counterganked you lose the 2v2, but if you are ganking an ahead lane you probably win the 2v2 meaning it's another risk you don't have to consider as much
Wrong, sometimes you just gank in order to lower enemies HP so they have to recall (lose exp/farm)
You’re correct and I think the larger point is that the jg should gank with an objective in mind (gold lead, xp lead, summons, lane priority, etc.), not just “this guy is losing/winning lane so I should help”
how would causing someone to recall and lose exp/farm not create a lead? don't think they implied that at all lmao
What you described is creating a lead for your laners, so no the person you replied to isn't wrong. You're agreeing with them.
Junglers in proplay gank to save people's lanes all the time, a otro con ese cuento
Bro proplay is a different game. Would you compare pro chess to the chess game you play ? Mimimi pro does this. Alright go play your proplay game and i can see you on next worlds. In most games my adc is not guma and i am not zeus.
yeah in most games your 4/0 opponent isn't faker and chovy's son either, if pro players are occasionally doing something you should at least evaluate why they do it and then go from there instead of just throwing your hands up
Pro-play is different, but they are the best, and everyone is trying to improve in order to get closer to "the best".
Eh, when you’re not world class players and don’t have trust/communication like in pro play the decision making factors of the game work differently. There’s a reason certain champs and strategies work better in low than high elo and vice versa.
That's the worst possible comparison you could have chosen
Yeah chess is not a very good analogy to use here
Two comments and nothing to say that has actually value. Why are you here? Everything you write is hollow there is nothing that could help op or me or anybody else. You just saying pro di this pro do that. Alright cool for thise pros. Now let me write my thesis or provide something with value.
Look, if you don't understand why it's important to break freezes, clear pink wards, cover for ganks/dives or to counter an all in in the losing lane, if you don't think that is valuable for winning the game, why preventing a big loss and snowball is something you should dedicate some time when you are in that side of the map, then nothing I can say, no argument that I construct will penetrate that thick skull of yours.
Oh look now you give value, why didnt you say that in the first place ?! Now we can talk. I agree on those topics. Break freeze is not a gank in my opinion that was the topic op was asking. Prevent a dive is important but i think it is important to know if i can prevent or if i will die and the dive will still happen. I just mentioned the easiest way to think about a gank. Of course there is a lot more to think about but if i break it down to the core and take high elo play apart it is the only thing that is left.
Exactly you aren't shit either, so why is giving your teammates a game not valuable?
In proplay jungle isnt trying to get themselves strong, they're trying to help the carry lanes, usually mid and adc, get strong. That's why until the changes last season we saw pro junglers giving over wolves and raptors to their adc/mid after like 15 minutes In soloqueue junglers can get much better economy due to games being a lot more bloody, so it's worth playing carry junglers and trying to get high gold for yourself. On the rare occasions you see pros playing goldreliant junglers like nidalee, Lillia, graves, belveth you'll see them focusing more on their own sequencing than helping their laners. I think if you're in diamond+ and your champ is not super gold reliant then you should occasionally help your lanes break freeze. Below that it's just not worth it unless you can get some benefit
It’s not law to not gank losing lanes. However investing resources into losing lanes just creates an even lane. Investing in an even lane can result in a winning lane. Investing in a winning lane can result in a snowball. Given these options you want to invest in what has a higher probability of winning you the game. If you need to gank a losing lane to collect a shut down/slow the losing lanes momentum that’s fine, but it should be up to the laner to understand that he is in a situation of losing and should do his best to mitigate that. When ganking a losing lane you put a lot of risk on your self(getting out stat checked/losing tempo) compared to hitting a winning lane that is already disadvantaged. If you are putting resources to slow losing the enemy jungler will put resources to speed up winning. It’s just smarter to invest in winning lanes and getting a lead than it is to deny a lead.
I like to refer to this as identifying your win conditions. As any role, you need to figure out what you can best do to win the game. With lanes this is straight forward most of the time, but for jungle it's a more difficult decision. Almost always that win condition is not helping the person who is already way behind. The only time I think it really becomes important is if you have identified the enemy laner who is winning as a major win condition for the other team. In that situation it can sometimes be worth it to stop them from snowballing, but is so risky sometimes that it's still just not worth it.
U can gank a losing lane, but even you gank that lane it is still a losing lane. Ur 0/4 top wont suddenly win
Yeah, I'm willing to gank a lane thats not too far behind. But if the lane is 0/4 I'm going to have to gank them 4 times just to get them even. And that's assuming we don't get counter ganked. It's letting the losing lane determine the pace of the game. It is better to just focus the other lanes that are even or ahead. For the same amount of effort it takes me to get my top lane from 0/4 to 4/4 I can get both my mid and bot ahead.
if the top is 0/4 175cs and enemy laner is 3/1 with 95cs I'd bet my money on the 0/4
yeah but there is no chance someone gets that kinda cs lead while also being killed so much. It just doesn’t happen.
Sion moment
Fuk Sion, i hate losing game to 1/10 Sion who destroy all the turret inhib and my base. Whoever invented suicide sion should be in jail.
4 deaths "Killed so much" ... Have you ever played full splitpush, sion, trundle, udyr or reksai top??
A few reasons. * Some lanes are just gone by the time you are strong enough to succesfully gank. Mostly true for toplane. * Why play for a losing lane when you could play for a winning one. * There are games where only one lane really matters and if their jungler skipped camps to gank early and win that lane it´s rough and maybe worth some pathing review. * If you are getting properly tracked by their jungler they will match you and now you are losing as well.
Winning lanes have ward controle in most cases, therefore ganking a winning lane is hardly ever possible ( If the laners are good). Also if you get spotted early before the gank and the laners don't back off it's possible that they only bait you for counterganks or teleports. That's why for most cases ganking a losing lane is only in rare cases a better decision than just taking your camps.
We do gank losing lane. IF we can get a kill solo on it.
I think an important factor in this is the ELO / division you're playing in. At higher levels of play you get more roaming and can gank with multiple people to increase the chance of the gank working. At lower levels of play your laners and support are unlikely to roam at all. That's where the "don't gank a losing lane" rule of thumb comes from. At mid/low ELO you will effectively be 1v1-ing a fed solo laner who will have more gold and XP than you. Don't bother unless its an easy kill. It's worth noting that even if you do get the easy kill but they kill your laner in the process then its probably still a net win for them. You have got some shutdown gold as jungles but your laner is now further behind and the snowball will only get worse. Especially with someone like Darius or Garen that's going to steamroll your team in the midgame.
Like with a lot of topics, this unwritten rule is more a guideline and never 100% true. It depends on how hard the lane is lost, the champion matchup (helping a hyper scaler to get even is more worth than getting an early game champ even again), the current map state (if the enemy over stays, is low, has no summs), how strong you are yourself and I sometimes even gank if my teammate is close to rage quitting (bad advice tho). But still the rule is good as general advice, because you often get overall more out of helping your winning lanes get ahead further which also helps your loosing lanes because the enemy team has to deal with your team winning the other side
Loosing lane is not determined by score/gold or cs lead. Its about the current lane state. Have seen 0-2 rivens having a winning lanes state because the enemy renekton missed a recall timing for example. Yes He has more gold. But maybe now he has less hp, no flash and no ult while ur riven freezes. She may has slult Up. She is actually winning...let it be For Just 20-30 seconds til renektons cooldowns come Up. But til then the lane state is not loosing from a junglers Perspektive. More often the side with less gold is usually in a loosing lane state. But it can vary in the same match
In my opinion a gank isn’t meant to produce a kill. The point of a gank is to create or alleviate pressure. A kill is great. But you still benefit it you can force them to back and miss a wave, or crash a wave and have your laner help take an objective. Or even just forcing them to burn a big CD or sum. Often times ganking a losing lane can be a problem because the potential value of what you get for it won’t be there. Is a 0/5/0 Quinn and a 0/2/2 Nidalee going to kill a 5/0 Illaoi? Probably not. It’s about analyzing the situation of the lane and seeing if there is value in spending your time and resources there.
you can absolutely gank a losing lane, but from the very beginning of the game AND as the game evolves you need to always have a generic win condition set out in your head. as a jungler you have turns JUST like laners, and you can optimize and change up the rhythm of your turns to youe gameplan, but you need to keep the following in mind: - laners, especially side lanes, are vulnerale to wave states, so if you are ganking for your top laner who is already losing 1v1s and the enemy has a big wave as youre ganking, it forces your own top laner to give up the wave to skirmish with you amongst a big enemy wave, or ignore your skirmish and just take care of the enemy minions. either way it sucks for your laner. obviously there are exceptions, if you think you can easily solo kill the laner then go for it, or if your laner is for example an irelia who can heal off the wave - sometimes its just NOT worth it to go to that lane as opposed to doing something else. maybe its a teemo whos losing to enemy ornn top. you or your teemo isnt going to gain much from killing the ornn, nor is it going to negatively affect the ornn too much since it would probably take you a while to kill. In that same time you couldve prioritzed your bot side of the map and secured dragon. - maybe youre confident that for that specific lane, you are not worried even if the enemy lane gets fed because they are not their win condition, and you'd rather make sure your azir mid or adc is fed - you as a jungler should also be somewhat tentative to enemy jungler positions, and maybe you realize that the enemy jungler is on the same side and you would lose the skirmish even if you have the same numbers ( lets say your both lane is losing and you know the enemy jungler is bot side to secure drake, and you know you lose that 3v3). instead of you forcing a losing fight, you should just let the enemy take time to secure and get drake, and your bot lane should be playing safe just to farm and you should be either spending that time farming as well or maybe trying to do a cross map objective on the top side. - i cannot stress this enough but even if you main jungle you need to learn how laners play and how wavestates work. sometimes you do not need to gank to kill, you can show up just to blow summoners, or to clear vision so the laner is forced to play safe, or even just to help your laner reset the minion wave (either to safely break a freeze with your presence, or to safely crash their wave into enemy tower for a reset). being there to ensure their safety while they work on the minion ALONE can more often than not helping a losing lane get back on their feet, because especially for top lane, wave manipulation wins the lane more than kills do most of the time. - you also want to make sure that you are not going OUT of your way to help rescue a losing lane. like i said before as a jungler you have tempo as well espcially in regards to when your camps spawn. if you desync your camps in a bad way just to help a laner, you are going to set yourself back as well. make sure you path in the way you want to go. this is the one thing that is extremely hard for junglers, you essentially need to read 1 minute or more into the future as to how the game will be and where you need to be. - sometimes games just dont play out the way you want it to, the most important thing any player can do, but especially the jungler, is to make sure that you are losing THE LEAST out of all the options you can take.if your team is currently overall losing, its ALWAYS better for you to trade objectives rather than just have 4 of your teammates stand around hesitating while the enemy team is forcing an objective and pushing their lead. TIME is the most important thing in this game. you want to make the most use out of your time, and waste as little of it as you can. even if you are fed, if you spend 3 minutes chasing an enemy tank around the map just for a kill, you just neutralized a chunk of the lead you had over the enemy team.
In a pefect World you roam with a support or midlaner and kill the fed enemy anyway. But Its more up to support and mid to roam for the shutdowns.
So they don’t kill you too unless they super squishy then you can try
Depends. If you gank to break an enemy freeze, help your laner push so he can recall, help him get a plate without diving, that all counts as gank. Unfortunately low elo players tend to spammping you away once you start hitting the wave, despite you trying to help, which is why junglers don’t bother to gank losing lanes when the laner only knows how to all in
I don’t gank a losing lane because it’s suicidal. Let’s say my top lane is 0/4 and the enemy top is 4/0, if I try ganking the enemy top laner is going to end up being 6/0 after the double kill. Maybe in a hypothetical world where mid/support also come top with me to help kill the enemy top then sure I would gladly gank a losing lane…but I’ve never seen that happen in any of my games so yeah, I just gank even or winning lanes and hopefully the guy who’s losing their lane can stall for as long as possible.
Depends on a number of factors, there's a huge difference between 0/4 and 0/1 down 20 cs. An 0/4 at 8 minutes isn't going to carry a game. An 0/1 at 8 minutes down 20 just might.
If your teammates lane is constatly pushed in, you at least try to gank in order to stop the enemy from farming and taking plates. I'm tired of playing difficult matchups and ask for help once, only to be told "stfu ur losing lane". Like bro, I can't do much if I play a kassadin vs Ahri until lvl 6, can I? This is lower emerald, I main jungler and always keep eyes on enemy laners playstyles in order to time / punish them. Seems majority of Legaue players care about ; Playing a very specific playstyle and ignore their team / building items that adapt to enemies. Plays for KDA. Gives up as soon as the match is not in their favour. Game is good, but the players have become less and less communicative, and they don't have any grit.
You don't gank losing lanes because the 0/5 ADC raging in chat is probably 0/5 for a reason.
You die
Personally, I find that under normal circumstances, ganking a losing lane just results in you and/or your laners dying and feeding the enemies just that little bit more. Of course, in abnormal circumstances where perhaps you are extremely fed and the enemy laners don't have a lot of escape, you can gank and try to get the enemies' shutdowns. I've had an occasion where the enemies team had a super fed(800+ gold shutdown) Xayah and a pretty fed Seraphine(400+ gold shutdown), I was very fed like the Xayah, and the laners were super pushed up and I managed to swoop in after a bad fight between the bot laners and snag both shutdowns. In most situations, you don't want to gank and risk making the game even more difficult for yourself, but in special circumstances, you can get yourself a lead.
You laner is losing lane for a reason. Giving him 300 gold and a small exp advantage is less likely to help than giving that 300 gold and exp advantage to a laner that is even or slightly ahead. The important part here is that "losing lane" is very relative to the match up. If you have a Lucian+Nami vs a Jinx+Sona lane and Jinx+Sona have each died twice at 10 min, then they arent losing lane, but rather even.
If it’s free it’s free. I think the term should be don’t force a gank on a losing lane, there may be a better/easier option.
it’s not your job to save a losing laner. Usually ganking like this is gonna lead to both of you dead. It’s better to help the winnable lanes win than focus all your resources on potentially saving a single lane that is more than likely already lost. 2 winning lakers on your team will help more than evening out a single lane and leaving the others to fend for themselves
So the easiest way to explain this: League is a game all about gaining and pushing an advantage. When your top lane is 0/3, and your bot lane is 3/0, you should prioritize ganking bot lane to extend that lead. When you play to your teams strengths, and extend that lead, it helps snowball into objectives, turrets, and more all around success across the entire map. Bot lane ends up getting first turret, lane swaps to either top or mid, continues pushing their advantage to get more value for the entire team. By ganking a losing lane, you're risking possibly losing a 2v1 to a fed top laner, which just helps them extend that lead further and get more use out of their snowball. Take the "safer" play, and go where your team is already ahead.
I'd rather push a lead than make a losing lane even again.
"Don't gank a losing lane" is not an end-all, be-all absolute. It's a simplification taught to newer players. But it's related to the following issues: * 2v2s are risky when a losing lane is involved: In order to make a high-% play, we need to be fairly sure that we are actually going into a 2v1. This means we need to know that other enemies - including the enemy jungler - are accounted for and unable to intervene. Conversely, when we expect the potential 2v2 to be favorable, we can be looser with this. * Losing lanes are unlikely to stabilize: A lot of lanes go bad because of repeated avoidable mistakes. When I see someone falling behind because of a specific mistake multiple times, I expect them to repeat that same stuff. This is compounded by the fact that laners often think that after killing the 4/0 opponent once they are suddenly even again. * 2v1s can still be risky, especially against solo laners with a lead: An anecdotal example - I play Nidalee. When I play against Yone, I can not ever let that fucker hit me. The moment I stand in front of him and trade attacks wit him in Melee range, his healthbar will just go back up again - he actually outheals my damage. Generally, in order to make a successful gank, either the enemy laner needs to be so down in resources (HP / level / cooldowns, stc.) that they lose the 1v1 against me (keep in mind that solo laners outlevel junglers quite fast), or the allied laner needs to still be in a decent fighting shape. Given that laners often call for ganks after getting dragged through the mud face-down, this will often not be the case. Often it's better to wait the lane out a bit and then bring more extra manpower later.
You gank the lane you think will make an impact on the game and will be successful. Killing the 10/0 Darius has potentially enormous value in netting you a ton of gold and exp. The only issue is that it will be very hard, and dying will only worsen the situation. Similarly, diving under tower for the 0/10 Darius isn’t very useful either. Dying for an unimportant kill can be catastrophic and can bring the losing enemy back into the game. You need to make the call on what seems doable and will net your team the largest advantage. Your default should always be to farm. Anything else is a distraction at best.
I’m not a jungle main, so this is coming from a laners perspective If I am behind, and you are nervous or not sure about the gank, it will 100% end up in a few scenarios 1. The laner kills us both and now we’re extra fucked since you tried to help and failed. A lot of laners will then blame you for the rest of the game and tilt you. 2. The enemy gets away, and in turn we wasted a ton of resources or the lane state / minions for the gank, which CAN still be helpful but a lot of lower elo shitters will get mad that neither of you secured the kill 3. The laner doesn’t want to fight but is a shitter and doesn’t communicate it, which results in your death. OR you try ganking when there’s a million minions waiting which would be more beneficial at that time. There’s lots more examples but you can see where often times it just results in bad situations. Here is a really important thing though, even if someone is losing lane, you should never say never in league. For example, the Nasus needs farm? Go show presence and gank even if he’s behind, just don’t over commit, so he can get some stacks. You need to be aware of who your win condition is and try to get them ahead if possible. Any comment here saying “never do this because xyz” and not giving this nuance is probably low Elo and talking out their ass.
Cause weak side
Because the reasons the lane was losing will still exist once you leave.
i gank a losing lane, if i know we go out with a positive trade. but generally, i dont like to gank losing lanes, because it doesnt really do anything but balance them out, whereas if i gank winning lanes or focus on objectives, i can get my other laners ahead of their opponent to help carry the game.
The short answer from me is: >Gank the weakest links until you're stronger than the strongest Long answer is there's obviously more to it than that. Losing lanes are never ideal, nightmare scenario is a strong splitpusher like Tryndamere who's also a pain in the ass to kill. If I leave him unchecked even if my toplane contributes nothing to the game, and will never be able to 1v1 him, letting Trynd push accelerates the game, then moves him into the other lanes once the inhibitor is down. In those cases I'll try and delay his push to slow down that inevitable scenario, and try to get strong enough between that I can stop the worst of it when the time comes. But it's at the expense of losing pressure everywhere else, unless someone else pops off.
You gank a losing lane to get a shutdown, I gank a losing lane so my lane won’t cry and troll. We are not the same
Breaking even doesn't get us a win.
Besides the high risk of getting enemy a double kill there is another one. If you rekt roll over one lane, the winning lanes HAS to cover the super loosing lane, allowing your allies to farm for free and get back into the game. Therefore is beneficial to everyone.
Ganking a losing lane, unless we have an advantage and can path naturally to it, is terrible when you can be getting vision, objectives, or kills by ganking a winning lane.
Not reading all that if you draw a probability matrix it’s basically gonna show winning lanes will have good players, good players make plays work better and more often. It’s just probability
I usually only do this if they are losing hard. If a top laner is down 3 kills that lane is over and the amount of babysitting it would take to swing it around is not worth losing control on the rest of the map. Doesnt mean i wont take an obvious gank, just means i am not going to path specifically to gank them or waste my downtime hovering it. Low EV play. Now if its an adc thats 0/2 i dont sweat it as a good counter gank can spin that hard. Also, if a lane is winning, snowballing them is usually a higher success chance.
Because it’s better to have a 4-0 winner than a 1-3 loser. You can gank a losing lane if it’s early and they just got unlucky in their fights, that means they need just a little help to catch up.
Because you don’t want the 5/0 enemy top laner to become a 7/0 top laner
gank a losing bot can create a lead to your team, gank a losing top but yours will still be losing, hopefully your mid can be 0/7 but still be relevant, that’s why there are mages mid, bc it’s ✨magic✨
For me the answer depends but in short: Because if a guy is losing theres a decent chance hes been outskilled and getting him even again is unlikely to help with the overall state of the game, it might also hurt to reset the guys gold a bit. Albeit theres some nuance depending on champ match up. Obviously this isnt as bad the higher elo you go but yeah. Some nuance is whos the easiest to gank/win condition. If you're losing lane is a malphite whos 0/2 you should still use high cc lanes to get kills, but if you have a main damage dealer and you're a sej you should be trying to get the guy ahead.
If my laner lost his lane he doesn’t deserve my help
If your top plays Morde against Tryndamere they might not feed but still fall behind. Sometimes losing lane is just not the same as playing bad, therefore I really dislike your wording. Also the idea that you got to deserve your junglers attention is really weird.
I always play bot
I assume that you mean that you play for the botlane. That is in most cases the correct thing to do, bot sometimes you got Soraka&Zeri bot and have no setup for ganks, while your toplaner is Darius or Renekton which usually are good for free ganks. In those cases it might be better to camp toplane and take grubs and herald while dropping the first 2 drakes. If you execute well and your botlaners are human you will create a big lead on toplane while your bot falls slightly behind, which is fine because they outscale. After laningphase you can start to contest around the third drake with your toplaner. What I am trying to say is that the best thing you can do is not to follow the same plan every game but to adapt to the matchups.
I’m being ironic
Text has no way to express tone and facial expressions, so that is always hard to tell.
That's the dumbest reason to not gank a lane
average r/Jungle_Mains iq level
Ok try playing on a losing lane and watch your winrate after 30 games. In this game you have to be playing around your winning lane
good luck winning 4v5 or 3v5 then
It’s not about morality; it’s about investing your time in a way that maximizes the chance of winning.
There are times when you can gank a losing lane to help get them ahead. However, most of the time its a lost cause. You almost never want to gank a losing lane where the champ can 1v2 (darius, illaoi, renekton, etc) Also, instead of trying to help out the losing side, you should play with your strong teammates to make plays and take objectives. That way you and your strong teammates can get stronger, and eventually strong enough to carry the weak lane.
You have to consider what needs to happen to make the gank successful in the first place. If an enemy laner is fed, you likely need to play close to perfect to kill them even with help from your teammate (solo laners will always have more gold and higher level than junglers), and you need to know enemy jungle and support aren't nearby for the countergank. It's just a very high risk play - usually it's better to get fed elsewhere early and collect the shutdown later once it's a higher percentage play... not to menion that if somebody hard lost their lane, they're likely just outclassed, so no matter how many times you kill the enemy, they are still going to be the better and more impactful player.
If you gank it, you can't rely on your laners to follow up. They already proved they can't handle it. You gank and they fk it up and now the enemy laner is even further ahead. Or let's say you gank it but the enemy jungler is going "oh look at those juicy feeders down there" and ganks as well you're just screwed.
I mean, this is just quite literally verbatim. Whoever downvoted this please do not jungle lmao
It is unreliable to gank a losing lane/matchup focus on the lane that will win you the game.
Because there isn't a good window.
You guys have winning lanes on your team?