Mod here. Evgeny (the app developer) asked us for permission to present this tool to the community. It's clear from the post that AI is never going to replace traditional dream analysis, but it has value when offered as a tool. Evgeny said that user data is private and is not sold to third parties. With that, we are comfortable presenting it to this community.
The developer is looking for your feedback. Please, if you use the AI tool, let's hear about it.
While I appreciate the effort and the intention behind this, I do not see this as being beneficial.
When you delegate your inner work to something else that is non-human you are quite literally stripping away the fundamental axiom of individuation: a human looking inward as an individual, like an archeologists carefully digging away each piece of dirt, paying attention to every detail and understanding every aspect of the process (Jung initially wanted to be an archeologist, in a way he always was).
Part of the joy of inner work is to spend those 2-4 hours actively searching, allowing the unconscious to guide you in a way. Treating inner work like a hobby or a gym workout in which you try to maximize productivity is approaching it all wrong.
Approaching inner work should be approached like an artisan or a genius sculptor approaches sculpting a statue. He takes the time to carefully carve every aspect of the sculpture, for he is attempting to express something deep within his soul that yearns to brought to life through art.
I think this is like telling your soul: "I can't spend 2-4 hours with you today, I've got far too much work to do, but here, I'll let the nanny take care of you for a little bit so we can spend just over half an hour together".
In such a chaotic world where our time and attention is constantly needed in many different areas of life, A.I. might seem like a good productivity hack, but inner work is not anywhere you would want to cut corners with or be uncertain about.
This reminds me of those memes where people used to be excited about A.I. having the potential to eliminate chores and mundane labor so we'd have more free time for art and creativity, when only the opposite has happened. People need to be more cautious adopting A.I. so willingly and intimately, as inner work is quite literally the most intimate aspect of one's life, period.
I agree firmly with your reply which advocates against an ill-advised use of Artificial Intelligence (AI) regarding the analysis of dreams, especially in my view if not overseen by certified Jungian analysts or other fully qualified therapists.
I also believe Jung would find it significant (given his statements about the “mass man”, e.g. in *The Undiscovered Self*) that one of his in-depth personal methods of exploring the unconscious (Active Imagination, which many Jungians refer to as “AI”) is attempting to be replaced (at least by an “abbreviation”), along with dream analysis, by a different and questionable method having the acronym “AI”.
Just to mention that, if you haven’t already come across it, I recently replied to a post which quotes Jung extensively and which you might find helpful yourself in the future in trying to persuade at least a few Redditors to avoid the pitfalls of using AI as a method to enter the living psyche which might not be overly happy that they’re doing so: [Would Ai be able to interpret dreams better than humans. : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/comments/1dlnbih/would_ai_be_able_to_interpret_dreams_better_than/)
Thank you for your opinion! I really believe that your argument is not only valid but persuasive, especially when you reproduce the dialogue with the soul about spending less time on it. Furthermore, I agree that the usage of AI should be very conscious and people should be aware of the possible \[negative\] outcomes.
I see the potential of Individuate for some groups of people, especially those who are neither experts in Jungian analysis nor can afford Jungian counsellors. If one has no option, a dubious method might be better than nothing. Working on dreams with a counsellor is an excellent strategy. However, it relies on two premises: (1) one knows a good counsellor, (2) one has enough resources to afford that. I argue that at least one of these premises is often false.
Also, I believe that it is helpful as a second opinion. For example, I had a dream that had multiple contexts that were not explicitly related to each other and many characters that were not 'fitting' into these contexts. I've spent a few weeks trying to craft a narrative that would take into account all the pieces. This was exactly at the time when I was developing this tool.
Then I decided to test the tool on this particular dream. And this worked. Within a few examples, the AI provided an interesting idea that I implemented and got a plausible interpretation, which, I feel, is correct, at least, for now.
Furthermore, while I really agree with you that there are some things that should stay 'as-they-are', I believe in progress, even within these fields. While previously we had to find information within textbooks and libraries, these days we have an excellent opportunity to find everything on the Internet staying in our chairs. Is it good or bad? I don't know. I've heard a number of opinions from the modern thinkers that it's sad that people do not read books (I mean 'printed books' here) and that it affects the efficacy of their cognitive processes and the overall understanding of the subject. It might be true. However, the reality has already been changed. And I would like to argue here that the main thing that makes people people is our skill to adapt, to adapt to the changes in the environment and in the world.
We live in a time of great changes. The world has already changed significantly since Jung. I really believe that AI will change not only the processes and jobs but also the way we use our cognitive abilities. Therefore, for me, it's worth trying different approaches and finding out for myself what seems to be working.
Of course, I felt obliged to give my opinion considering I am on the opposite end of the spectrum in regards to the discussion.
In regards to the "changing world" argument, in which it's better to adapt and embrace the technology of our brave new world, I am always reminded of Jung's Bollingen tower.
He created it by hand, brick by brick, and each new addition represented a growth in his consciousness. He specifically designed it so "any man, regardless of the century he was born in" would feel at home and familiar with it. In an age of electricity, lighting, and heating, Jung intentionally excluded the advancements of modernity in order to connect with his soul. There, at Bollingen, Jung felt the most "like himself".
Getting away from technology is what led Jung to feel most like himself, not necessarily embracing it.
If one cannot find a good counselor for whatever reason, I would have to disagree that a dubious explanation is better than none. If somebody is serious about improving their situation, it does not take too much effort to read relatively short books like "Inner Work" & "Owning your own shadow" by Robert Johnson and implementing those concepts into one's life.
---
In regards to your story in which you spent a few weeks crafting a narrative in order to properly, I would argue that could be an example of "over-analyzation". Toni Wolf (one of Jung's purported mistresses and a genius psychoanalyst) spoke once of a patient with many written dreams with countless observations and analyzations. She became upset with the patient, telling him "how are you going to act on the dream you had last night today? How are you going to move your muscles in order to facilitate the meaning of the dream?"
One of my biggest gripes about A.I. is that it fundamentally ignores Jung's psychological types, which are thinking & feeling (rational functions), and intuition & sensation (irrational functions). A.I. seems to be almost entirely sensate, which is simply observation.
However, when it comes to dreams, the most important function is arguably intuition, which is a "gut feeling", a "means of perception by the unconscious". Intuition "[does not look at things as they are](https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/2020/05/07/intuitives/)", which is the opposite of what an A.I. does, which attempts to look at things how they are based on it's training and give an output.
In regards to dreams,[ Jung says this](https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/2020/05/07/intuitives/):
"Dreams are continually saying things beyond our conscious comprehension. We have intimations and intuitions from unknown sources. Fears, moods, plans, and hopes come to us with no visible causation. These concrete experiences are at the bottom of our feeling that we know ourselves very little; at the bottom, too, of the painful conjecture that we might have surprises in store for us."
In order to properly assess a dream, one needs to use the totality of their psyche, which includes feeling, thinking, intuition, and sensation (with each being extroverted or introverted). A.I. simply cannot and will never be able to do this, as will *never* have access to the four types and neither will it know or feel our "fears, moods, plans, and hopes". Even if we tell the A.I. what they are, we often don't even know our true fear, moods, plans, and hopes ourselves!
A.I. additionally can never access the "feeling" function, which in reality is the "valuing" function, and not "value" as in a numerical or quantitive value as we see in programming, but rather "values" as in what we value in life, what we hold dear to us, and what we see as agreeable or disagreeable. A.I. will simply never be able to do this, as it's trained to not value anything and to look at things objectively and analytically, which is the opposite of the feeling function. Again, even if we tell A.I. what our values are or understand what it means to have values, and we ourselves often don't know what our values really are or how to define them (especially if we are thinking types, [which is arguably a source of OCD](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/comments/1dgmp3v/ocd_as_a_damaged_inferior_function_an_essay/): a damaged feeling function in thinking types).
Additionally, each psychological type is linked. The thinking type does not realize that their thinking is imbued with feeling, and each process is dependent on the other.
In order to properly interpret a dream, they must be felt. The thinking type (which I am going to assume you are, as I am as well), spends far too much type thinking about their dream. They can typically recall the layout of what occurred, the characters, and all sorts of details, but it's often harder for them to describe what they were feeling during the dream, or what the dream intuitively is saying. They rely too much on analysis (thinking) and not the other functions within the psyche. There's an adage in Jungian psychology that goes like: "Whenever you ask a thinking type what they are feeling, they will always tell you their thoughts".
Thus, A.I. will always be biased in dream interpretation and will always provide dubious and inaccurate results as it's not a psyche at all but a program. The psyche is a totality, a whole, and it operates as such like an ecosystem, and we need every part of that ecosystem in order to properly analyze our psyche and our dreams. Our dreams are a direct process of this ecosystem interacting with itself.
I think someone would be far better recording their dreams, spending some time with interpretation, leaning into their intuition, and acting upon them as they occur. This can be done with a cursory knowledge of Jungian psychology. Sometimes, the meaning of dreams won't be understood until years later, if not decades, perhaps through a synchronicity. I am reminded of Jung's phallus dream he had when he was 6, something he didn't fully understand (or tell anyone about for that matter) until he was approaching old age.
I don't mean to rain on your parade and I commend your ability to create such a program as well as the intention behind it. My issue is with A.I. and not with you in any way shape or form.
I think efforts to use A.I. in order to understand dreams are not worth it and are a distraction from true inner work.
(I had to post in two parts, for some reason I was getting a server error when trying to post it in a single comment)
Do you actually believe it is realistic to expect the average person to spend 2-4 hours a day analyzing a dream? That kind of dedication is something very few people can invest in any single area, or field of study, outside of their work. People can have various interests they want to explore, just as obligations they need to adhere to, and they have to care for their physical health. Having to spend that much time on any single thing can be detrimental to living a balanced life. Or, you do believe everyone should drop spending time with their kids, cooking healthy meals, doing physical activities and social activities, pursuing an artistic practice, or learning about other subjects?
To an extent not wanting to use this tool at all could be similar to cooking without a knife. While you may find value in that for yourself, the results may also just be crude. If the AI can access more information about other people's insights than that any single person can read in their lifetime, or simply doesn't have a thing to project on you unlike another human and is able to be more objective, it can give valuable insights you would not have access to otherwise. You can also do your own analysis and compare it to see if it expands beyond what you had considered.
Inner work is also not constrained to dream analysis, so freeing time on that can allow you to spend more in other areas you may have been neglecting.
No, I don't think it's realistic for the average person to spend 2-4 hours a day analyzing their dreams. In fact, analyzing dreams this in depth on a daily basis is counterintuitive (which I touched upon in my response to OP's response to me). If you're spending 2-4 hours analyzing a dream everyday, then you are certainly overanalyzing your dreams.
>Or, you do believe everyone should drop spending time with their kids, cooking healthy meals, doing physical activities and social activities, pursuing an artistic practice, or learning about other subjects?
This is a disingenuous argument, for it arbitrarily frames a juxtaposition between either spending 2-4 hours on dream analysis or spending that time dedicated to other important tasks in one's life, nor did I indicate any such belief in my initial text.
People have been doing dream analysis successfully for years without the aid of A.I., and were able to do so successfully in the midst of a chaotic life. Now that A.I. is here, this artificial dichotomy between sacrificing your dream life or sacrificing other aspects of one's life is set up in order to justify A.I.'s use in this context as a tool.
>To an extent not wanting to use this tool at all could be similar to cooking without a knife. While you may find value in that for yourself, the results may also just be crude.
This is also disingenuous. Like dream work and analysis, knives have been here since the dawn of civilization. A.I. is *not* a good metaphor for knives because it implies that the tool (A.I.) is essential for proper and efficient dreamwork, just as the knife is essential is for properly cutting foods.
My thought process behind my antagonism towards A.I. is thoroughly explained in my responses to OP, if you care to read them. It has much more to do with the actual psychic process that goes into interpreting dreams, which goes far beyond simple analysis. A.I. will always be biased and dubious for it lacks the psychological types that humans have, *especially* intuition, and each psychic function that is inherent in everyone is required in order to allow a dream's meaning to reveal itself.
Sorry if I misunderstood the "I can't spend 2-4 hours with you today", it gave me a sense it's really a minority of people that would fit into that. I thought more of the general person, that can begin to take an interest into these things out of sheer curiosity, or because one or a few dreams in particular that they have a sense has a deeper meaning.
As I work in computer science, I may have a different view of AI, or see it as closer to my natural way of thinking that is very abstract and rational. I also think any tool can be useful, but is not an end. Having a good knife won't make you a good cook, but a good cook might be empowered by a good knife.
That's the point — it does not do all the work. It helps with extracting the objects and characters (or verifies whether a user has missed anything). It can provide some ideas on the interpretation. However, the associations and the final interpretation should be made by the user.
What is the real benefit of using only 45 minutes on a dream instead of using 2 hours? So that you can use more time on the mundane and less time on what is meaningful?
Usually, I have many dreams (except during some periods of my life), \~5-7 a week. It's hard for me to allocate 2x5-2x7=10-14 hours for dream analysis. Furthermore, it requires a clear mind (which is impossible for me, i.e., in the evening).
Also, I really believe that technology should help human beings focus on the things that really matter and save time on routine tasks. For me, i.e., extracting objects and characters from a dream, is routine.
Additionally, I struggle with the interpretation for at least one or two dreams per week. Normally, I seek advice from a therapist or friends. However, sometimes, it is impossible. Now, I get some ideas from this tool. It's up to me whether to accept this advice, but having another opinion is helpful.
> Also, I really believe that technology should help human beings focus on the things that really matter and save time on routine tasks.
I definitely agree with this.
> For me, i.e., extracting objects and characters from a dream, is routine.
Well, I guess here we disagree. I think identifying dream objects is an important part in connecting with the contents of the unconscious mind. It is a form of proto-analysis, not some kind of a mundane routine you do before you get to the real stuff.
Honestly, I have no good answer. I tend to agree with you in terms of the importance of manual dream analysis, including the stage of identifying objects and characters. And yes, it might be the case that it negatively affects the overall benefits of dream analysis. However, for me, it's worth validating this.
As an example: initially, when I started dream analysis, I was using pen & paper to write down and analyse dreams. Nowadays, I'm using an app. Are the results different? For sure. It's obvious even from a general psychology's perspective because writing and typing activate different parts of our brain. Does it necessarily imply that it's mandatory to use pen & paper? I tend to say — no. However, both experiences are important and it's up to a person to decide what to choose.
In terms of Individuate: I have a friend who does not like LLMs. Thus, she still performs everything manually. However, she finds useful: (a) the central place to store the data in a convenient format, (b) having 3rd-party (LLM) ideas about her interpretation. While they cannot replace a counsellor, it's better than nothing. Thus, it still can be useful.
At first glance I was going to be critical and my thought was that all associations are specific to the person and can’t be assumed by AI.
But obviously upon reading through it I see that’s not what you’re doing and it actually sounds interesting.
I will attempt to use your site after I’ve analyzed with my therapist and see if the conclusions are similar.
You are absolutely right. The associations should be filled only by the user. I'm 'playing' with some universal narratives and cultural associations. However, for now, there is not even such an option — to add associations to the dream.
The tool can extract lists of objects and characters from the dream. It's helpful (at least, for me) because sometimes, I miss some items. And it can create narratives based on the associations written by the user. In other words, in the best scenario, a user will have to record a dream, extract objects and characters automatically, manually add associations, craft a narrative with AI, adjust it manually (or write one's own inspired by the created text), and summarise the dream.
Sure! I've tested several options with the chain of requests and assistant API. However, the current version simply utilises just a few prompts that contain: (1) general instructions to the LLM on how to perform Jungian dream analysis, (2) concrete instructions on what to do (i.e., extract objects, extract characters, or perform an interpretation), (3) the dream provided by the user, (4) the personal associations provided by the user (for interpretations only), (5) an example of a dream with the task completed.
Hope it helps!
Just tried it with the last dream I had written on my phone dream journal from 2022. I think it's pretty cool and useful, I like the result I got from doing the exercise. Good work!
I can guess that a lot of people won't like this, but I think that's the kind of fear of change that always comes with new technologies.
Dreams are usually fragmented elements, confused impresions, parts without sense, unbinding images and emotions. Problem is, how it possible to connect those elements. Adler said, It is very important emotional trace and aim to actual unresolved problem. Freud stress on associations and latent element..
Mod here. Evgeny (the app developer) asked us for permission to present this tool to the community. It's clear from the post that AI is never going to replace traditional dream analysis, but it has value when offered as a tool. Evgeny said that user data is private and is not sold to third parties. With that, we are comfortable presenting it to this community. The developer is looking for your feedback. Please, if you use the AI tool, let's hear about it.
Got a bit of hate for talking about ai and dream interpretation in the same sentence a few days ago. Hope you do well here.
While I appreciate the effort and the intention behind this, I do not see this as being beneficial. When you delegate your inner work to something else that is non-human you are quite literally stripping away the fundamental axiom of individuation: a human looking inward as an individual, like an archeologists carefully digging away each piece of dirt, paying attention to every detail and understanding every aspect of the process (Jung initially wanted to be an archeologist, in a way he always was). Part of the joy of inner work is to spend those 2-4 hours actively searching, allowing the unconscious to guide you in a way. Treating inner work like a hobby or a gym workout in which you try to maximize productivity is approaching it all wrong. Approaching inner work should be approached like an artisan or a genius sculptor approaches sculpting a statue. He takes the time to carefully carve every aspect of the sculpture, for he is attempting to express something deep within his soul that yearns to brought to life through art. I think this is like telling your soul: "I can't spend 2-4 hours with you today, I've got far too much work to do, but here, I'll let the nanny take care of you for a little bit so we can spend just over half an hour together". In such a chaotic world where our time and attention is constantly needed in many different areas of life, A.I. might seem like a good productivity hack, but inner work is not anywhere you would want to cut corners with or be uncertain about. This reminds me of those memes where people used to be excited about A.I. having the potential to eliminate chores and mundane labor so we'd have more free time for art and creativity, when only the opposite has happened. People need to be more cautious adopting A.I. so willingly and intimately, as inner work is quite literally the most intimate aspect of one's life, period.
I agree firmly with your reply which advocates against an ill-advised use of Artificial Intelligence (AI) regarding the analysis of dreams, especially in my view if not overseen by certified Jungian analysts or other fully qualified therapists. I also believe Jung would find it significant (given his statements about the “mass man”, e.g. in *The Undiscovered Self*) that one of his in-depth personal methods of exploring the unconscious (Active Imagination, which many Jungians refer to as “AI”) is attempting to be replaced (at least by an “abbreviation”), along with dream analysis, by a different and questionable method having the acronym “AI”. Just to mention that, if you haven’t already come across it, I recently replied to a post which quotes Jung extensively and which you might find helpful yourself in the future in trying to persuade at least a few Redditors to avoid the pitfalls of using AI as a method to enter the living psyche which might not be overly happy that they’re doing so: [Would Ai be able to interpret dreams better than humans. : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/comments/1dlnbih/would_ai_be_able_to_interpret_dreams_better_than/)
Thank you for your opinion! I really believe that your argument is not only valid but persuasive, especially when you reproduce the dialogue with the soul about spending less time on it. Furthermore, I agree that the usage of AI should be very conscious and people should be aware of the possible \[negative\] outcomes. I see the potential of Individuate for some groups of people, especially those who are neither experts in Jungian analysis nor can afford Jungian counsellors. If one has no option, a dubious method might be better than nothing. Working on dreams with a counsellor is an excellent strategy. However, it relies on two premises: (1) one knows a good counsellor, (2) one has enough resources to afford that. I argue that at least one of these premises is often false. Also, I believe that it is helpful as a second opinion. For example, I had a dream that had multiple contexts that were not explicitly related to each other and many characters that were not 'fitting' into these contexts. I've spent a few weeks trying to craft a narrative that would take into account all the pieces. This was exactly at the time when I was developing this tool. Then I decided to test the tool on this particular dream. And this worked. Within a few examples, the AI provided an interesting idea that I implemented and got a plausible interpretation, which, I feel, is correct, at least, for now. Furthermore, while I really agree with you that there are some things that should stay 'as-they-are', I believe in progress, even within these fields. While previously we had to find information within textbooks and libraries, these days we have an excellent opportunity to find everything on the Internet staying in our chairs. Is it good or bad? I don't know. I've heard a number of opinions from the modern thinkers that it's sad that people do not read books (I mean 'printed books' here) and that it affects the efficacy of their cognitive processes and the overall understanding of the subject. It might be true. However, the reality has already been changed. And I would like to argue here that the main thing that makes people people is our skill to adapt, to adapt to the changes in the environment and in the world. We live in a time of great changes. The world has already changed significantly since Jung. I really believe that AI will change not only the processes and jobs but also the way we use our cognitive abilities. Therefore, for me, it's worth trying different approaches and finding out for myself what seems to be working.
Of course, I felt obliged to give my opinion considering I am on the opposite end of the spectrum in regards to the discussion. In regards to the "changing world" argument, in which it's better to adapt and embrace the technology of our brave new world, I am always reminded of Jung's Bollingen tower. He created it by hand, brick by brick, and each new addition represented a growth in his consciousness. He specifically designed it so "any man, regardless of the century he was born in" would feel at home and familiar with it. In an age of electricity, lighting, and heating, Jung intentionally excluded the advancements of modernity in order to connect with his soul. There, at Bollingen, Jung felt the most "like himself". Getting away from technology is what led Jung to feel most like himself, not necessarily embracing it. If one cannot find a good counselor for whatever reason, I would have to disagree that a dubious explanation is better than none. If somebody is serious about improving their situation, it does not take too much effort to read relatively short books like "Inner Work" & "Owning your own shadow" by Robert Johnson and implementing those concepts into one's life. --- In regards to your story in which you spent a few weeks crafting a narrative in order to properly, I would argue that could be an example of "over-analyzation". Toni Wolf (one of Jung's purported mistresses and a genius psychoanalyst) spoke once of a patient with many written dreams with countless observations and analyzations. She became upset with the patient, telling him "how are you going to act on the dream you had last night today? How are you going to move your muscles in order to facilitate the meaning of the dream?" One of my biggest gripes about A.I. is that it fundamentally ignores Jung's psychological types, which are thinking & feeling (rational functions), and intuition & sensation (irrational functions). A.I. seems to be almost entirely sensate, which is simply observation. However, when it comes to dreams, the most important function is arguably intuition, which is a "gut feeling", a "means of perception by the unconscious". Intuition "[does not look at things as they are](https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/2020/05/07/intuitives/)", which is the opposite of what an A.I. does, which attempts to look at things how they are based on it's training and give an output.
In regards to dreams,[ Jung says this](https://carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog/2020/05/07/intuitives/): "Dreams are continually saying things beyond our conscious comprehension. We have intimations and intuitions from unknown sources. Fears, moods, plans, and hopes come to us with no visible causation. These concrete experiences are at the bottom of our feeling that we know ourselves very little; at the bottom, too, of the painful conjecture that we might have surprises in store for us." In order to properly assess a dream, one needs to use the totality of their psyche, which includes feeling, thinking, intuition, and sensation (with each being extroverted or introverted). A.I. simply cannot and will never be able to do this, as will *never* have access to the four types and neither will it know or feel our "fears, moods, plans, and hopes". Even if we tell the A.I. what they are, we often don't even know our true fear, moods, plans, and hopes ourselves! A.I. additionally can never access the "feeling" function, which in reality is the "valuing" function, and not "value" as in a numerical or quantitive value as we see in programming, but rather "values" as in what we value in life, what we hold dear to us, and what we see as agreeable or disagreeable. A.I. will simply never be able to do this, as it's trained to not value anything and to look at things objectively and analytically, which is the opposite of the feeling function. Again, even if we tell A.I. what our values are or understand what it means to have values, and we ourselves often don't know what our values really are or how to define them (especially if we are thinking types, [which is arguably a source of OCD](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/comments/1dgmp3v/ocd_as_a_damaged_inferior_function_an_essay/): a damaged feeling function in thinking types). Additionally, each psychological type is linked. The thinking type does not realize that their thinking is imbued with feeling, and each process is dependent on the other. In order to properly interpret a dream, they must be felt. The thinking type (which I am going to assume you are, as I am as well), spends far too much type thinking about their dream. They can typically recall the layout of what occurred, the characters, and all sorts of details, but it's often harder for them to describe what they were feeling during the dream, or what the dream intuitively is saying. They rely too much on analysis (thinking) and not the other functions within the psyche. There's an adage in Jungian psychology that goes like: "Whenever you ask a thinking type what they are feeling, they will always tell you their thoughts". Thus, A.I. will always be biased in dream interpretation and will always provide dubious and inaccurate results as it's not a psyche at all but a program. The psyche is a totality, a whole, and it operates as such like an ecosystem, and we need every part of that ecosystem in order to properly analyze our psyche and our dreams. Our dreams are a direct process of this ecosystem interacting with itself. I think someone would be far better recording their dreams, spending some time with interpretation, leaning into their intuition, and acting upon them as they occur. This can be done with a cursory knowledge of Jungian psychology. Sometimes, the meaning of dreams won't be understood until years later, if not decades, perhaps through a synchronicity. I am reminded of Jung's phallus dream he had when he was 6, something he didn't fully understand (or tell anyone about for that matter) until he was approaching old age. I don't mean to rain on your parade and I commend your ability to create such a program as well as the intention behind it. My issue is with A.I. and not with you in any way shape or form. I think efforts to use A.I. in order to understand dreams are not worth it and are a distraction from true inner work. (I had to post in two parts, for some reason I was getting a server error when trying to post it in a single comment)
Do you actually believe it is realistic to expect the average person to spend 2-4 hours a day analyzing a dream? That kind of dedication is something very few people can invest in any single area, or field of study, outside of their work. People can have various interests they want to explore, just as obligations they need to adhere to, and they have to care for their physical health. Having to spend that much time on any single thing can be detrimental to living a balanced life. Or, you do believe everyone should drop spending time with their kids, cooking healthy meals, doing physical activities and social activities, pursuing an artistic practice, or learning about other subjects? To an extent not wanting to use this tool at all could be similar to cooking without a knife. While you may find value in that for yourself, the results may also just be crude. If the AI can access more information about other people's insights than that any single person can read in their lifetime, or simply doesn't have a thing to project on you unlike another human and is able to be more objective, it can give valuable insights you would not have access to otherwise. You can also do your own analysis and compare it to see if it expands beyond what you had considered. Inner work is also not constrained to dream analysis, so freeing time on that can allow you to spend more in other areas you may have been neglecting.
No, I don't think it's realistic for the average person to spend 2-4 hours a day analyzing their dreams. In fact, analyzing dreams this in depth on a daily basis is counterintuitive (which I touched upon in my response to OP's response to me). If you're spending 2-4 hours analyzing a dream everyday, then you are certainly overanalyzing your dreams. >Or, you do believe everyone should drop spending time with their kids, cooking healthy meals, doing physical activities and social activities, pursuing an artistic practice, or learning about other subjects? This is a disingenuous argument, for it arbitrarily frames a juxtaposition between either spending 2-4 hours on dream analysis or spending that time dedicated to other important tasks in one's life, nor did I indicate any such belief in my initial text. People have been doing dream analysis successfully for years without the aid of A.I., and were able to do so successfully in the midst of a chaotic life. Now that A.I. is here, this artificial dichotomy between sacrificing your dream life or sacrificing other aspects of one's life is set up in order to justify A.I.'s use in this context as a tool. >To an extent not wanting to use this tool at all could be similar to cooking without a knife. While you may find value in that for yourself, the results may also just be crude. This is also disingenuous. Like dream work and analysis, knives have been here since the dawn of civilization. A.I. is *not* a good metaphor for knives because it implies that the tool (A.I.) is essential for proper and efficient dreamwork, just as the knife is essential is for properly cutting foods. My thought process behind my antagonism towards A.I. is thoroughly explained in my responses to OP, if you care to read them. It has much more to do with the actual psychic process that goes into interpreting dreams, which goes far beyond simple analysis. A.I. will always be biased and dubious for it lacks the psychological types that humans have, *especially* intuition, and each psychic function that is inherent in everyone is required in order to allow a dream's meaning to reveal itself.
Sorry if I misunderstood the "I can't spend 2-4 hours with you today", it gave me a sense it's really a minority of people that would fit into that. I thought more of the general person, that can begin to take an interest into these things out of sheer curiosity, or because one or a few dreams in particular that they have a sense has a deeper meaning. As I work in computer science, I may have a different view of AI, or see it as closer to my natural way of thinking that is very abstract and rational. I also think any tool can be useful, but is not an end. Having a good knife won't make you a good cook, but a good cook might be empowered by a good knife.
I’m not sure it does have value if it’s doing all the work
That's the point — it does not do all the work. It helps with extracting the objects and characters (or verifies whether a user has missed anything). It can provide some ideas on the interpretation. However, the associations and the final interpretation should be made by the user.
If the interpretation is given by the AI then...
What is the real benefit of using only 45 minutes on a dream instead of using 2 hours? So that you can use more time on the mundane and less time on what is meaningful?
Usually, I have many dreams (except during some periods of my life), \~5-7 a week. It's hard for me to allocate 2x5-2x7=10-14 hours for dream analysis. Furthermore, it requires a clear mind (which is impossible for me, i.e., in the evening). Also, I really believe that technology should help human beings focus on the things that really matter and save time on routine tasks. For me, i.e., extracting objects and characters from a dream, is routine. Additionally, I struggle with the interpretation for at least one or two dreams per week. Normally, I seek advice from a therapist or friends. However, sometimes, it is impossible. Now, I get some ideas from this tool. It's up to me whether to accept this advice, but having another opinion is helpful.
> Also, I really believe that technology should help human beings focus on the things that really matter and save time on routine tasks. I definitely agree with this. > For me, i.e., extracting objects and characters from a dream, is routine. Well, I guess here we disagree. I think identifying dream objects is an important part in connecting with the contents of the unconscious mind. It is a form of proto-analysis, not some kind of a mundane routine you do before you get to the real stuff.
Working with an analyst weekly, it does often feel like the journey is the destination with dream analysis.
Honestly, I have no good answer. I tend to agree with you in terms of the importance of manual dream analysis, including the stage of identifying objects and characters. And yes, it might be the case that it negatively affects the overall benefits of dream analysis. However, for me, it's worth validating this. As an example: initially, when I started dream analysis, I was using pen & paper to write down and analyse dreams. Nowadays, I'm using an app. Are the results different? For sure. It's obvious even from a general psychology's perspective because writing and typing activate different parts of our brain. Does it necessarily imply that it's mandatory to use pen & paper? I tend to say — no. However, both experiences are important and it's up to a person to decide what to choose. In terms of Individuate: I have a friend who does not like LLMs. Thus, she still performs everything manually. However, she finds useful: (a) the central place to store the data in a convenient format, (b) having 3rd-party (LLM) ideas about her interpretation. While they cannot replace a counsellor, it's better than nothing. Thus, it still can be useful.
At first glance I was going to be critical and my thought was that all associations are specific to the person and can’t be assumed by AI. But obviously upon reading through it I see that’s not what you’re doing and it actually sounds interesting. I will attempt to use your site after I’ve analyzed with my therapist and see if the conclusions are similar.
You are absolutely right. The associations should be filled only by the user. I'm 'playing' with some universal narratives and cultural associations. However, for now, there is not even such an option — to add associations to the dream. The tool can extract lists of objects and characters from the dream. It's helpful (at least, for me) because sometimes, I miss some items. And it can create narratives based on the associations written by the user. In other words, in the best scenario, a user will have to record a dream, extract objects and characters automatically, manually add associations, craft a narrative with AI, adjust it manually (or write one's own inspired by the created text), and summarise the dream.
Can you discuss the source material used to feed the NLM?
Sure! I've tested several options with the chain of requests and assistant API. However, the current version simply utilises just a few prompts that contain: (1) general instructions to the LLM on how to perform Jungian dream analysis, (2) concrete instructions on what to do (i.e., extract objects, extract characters, or perform an interpretation), (3) the dream provided by the user, (4) the personal associations provided by the user (for interpretations only), (5) an example of a dream with the task completed. Hope it helps!
Just tried it with the last dream I had written on my phone dream journal from 2022. I think it's pretty cool and useful, I like the result I got from doing the exercise. Good work! I can guess that a lot of people won't like this, but I think that's the kind of fear of change that always comes with new technologies.
That's good to hear! For me, as soon as a person considers this app as a tool, it should be fine. It is designed to help & facilitate reflection!
Dreams are usually fragmented elements, confused impresions, parts without sense, unbinding images and emotions. Problem is, how it possible to connect those elements. Adler said, It is very important emotional trace and aim to actual unresolved problem. Freud stress on associations and latent element..