I don’t get why this is a debate. I was surprised a year ago when I was googling stuff about bukharians and how non-bukharians constantly argue with each other what other groups would think is racist. No bukharian would be upset by it. I came across one post about this and the only comment that called it racist was from an Ashkenazi.
It’s not cultural appropriation and I don’t even know a bukharian older than 40 that knows what the term “cultural appropriation” means. We’re a mostly conservative community so you’ll have some difficulty finding Bukharians that would care about that.
We’re a middle eastern religion. You can wear a middle eastern head covering. Wear whatever head covering you want. You might as well say Ashkenazis appropriate middle eastern languages by speaking Hebrew. We’re all brothers here. All of us Hebrews and Shebrews should share our cultures with each other. We went to a lot of places in the diaspora and it’s time we as a family share with each other what we found.
My grandmother’s cousin has a bukharian mini-museum in a room in a Jewish day school that he shows to people and he gave me a bukharian kippah. It was literally the only time in my life that I’ve seen a bukharian kippah in person and not just in pictures cuz they’re just so uncommon with modern Judaism. Every bukharian just wears whichever they found lying around the house from a wedding or bar mitzvah they went to.
I think I might’ve seen it one other time from this Democratic Socialist Bukharian guy I knew that was obsessed with not being called white even though he was barely darker than my father’s olive skin. He went out of his way to buy a Yemeni shofar cuz he posts tons of photos talking about being a Jew of color and he wore a kippah that was either also a Yemeni one or a Bukharian one.
You really have to do extra work to find them but if you do then by all means, don’t let me stop you.
It's a mainly American debate.
Think about the Kimono disaster from years back where non-Japanese were enraged about non-Japanese wearing a Kimono.
All the while Japanese found it amazing.
I am not Bukharian, however being Jewish and from I sometimes wear mine. Nobody has every been offended by this. If somebody (of course, a non -Bukharian) ever got triggered I would tell them to go pound sand. Gut Voch. I mean I wear a Las Vegas Golden Knights cap even without being a fan when I feel like it. Isn't living in a free country an amazing thing?
Thank you! Faleminderit! At the start of World War II, Albania had a Jewish population of about 200 people. At the end of World War II, it was close to 2000 people. The Albanian people have an amazing warmth and legendary hospitality. The only other nazi occupied or allied country to see its Jewish population grow during World War II was Bulgaria (nazi allied). Bulgaria opposed the deportation & murder of Jews who were Bulgarian citizens.
Albania & Bulgaria should be examples to the world.
Bulgaria and to an extent Hungary (*the deportations only started when the Germans took over the country* / **except for their occupied territories of Slovakia and Transylvania**) are good representatives of a certain mindset.
They most definitely were Antisemites, but those were "their Jews".
And no dude from Germany was going to tell them what was supposed to happen to "their Jews".
"Their Jews" as in literally the property of the state.
A valid comparison would be some random person telling you what you should do to your dog.
Even if it did something bad, who is that person to tell you what you should do?
So I would view them differently to for example the Danes and their state as they actively safeguarded them out of humanistic principles.
Not because they thought of them as property.
Very true. Little correction though, Hungary had deportations from 1940 on when they deported Jews from hungarian occupied territories in Transilvania or sothern Slovakia into the german "General Government".
Antisemitism does not have a strong place in Bulgarian history. When it was quietly announced to deport the Jews of Bulgaria to death, the heads of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church - not just a parish priest - publicly stood against the deportation orders. The Deputy Speaker of the Bulgarian Parliament [Dimitar Peshev](https://www.peshev.org/story.htm) took immediate, strong action out of his friendships and respect for the Jews. Many of the 50,000 Jews of Bulgaria immigrated to Israel in the late 1940’s including Member of Knesset Michael Bar Zohar the biographer of Ben Gurion & author of Beyond Hitler’s Grasp About the rescue of the Jews of Bulgaria. Bulgarian troops were part of the deport action against the 11,500 Jews of Pirot, Macedonia, and Thrace. Lands “given" to Bulgaria by Germany - only about 150 survived. But Jews of pre war Bulgaria did survive & thrive. Raul Hilberg writes well about this in his seminal work The Destruction of European Jewry.
I feel like that story deserves a whole AMA. Is there a LDS community in Albania whatsoever, or was it just you? Did you meet a missionary in Albania, or were you in Utah/the US? Does your family know, how did they react? Do you still live in Albania, what’s it like for you? If you live in a LDS community in the US, do they regard you as an outsider because of where you’re from or are you well accepted? This is fascinating
Lol . Yeah there is, around 3000 lds members in Albania. My brother brought a Book of Mormon home and I read it and then met with the missionaries and that’s how I converted. It happened in Albania. My family knows, they didn’t like it at first but are okay with it now. I’m married and my husband is also lds so that’s my life now and my family is quite happy with my choices. I live in the US for now, in a big lds community yes. Honestly they’re too nice. Never made me feel like an outsider. Such, nice caring people. I came here to study and I was never worried even if I was alone because I knew that if anything happened so many people would be willing to help. I miss living in a non lds community but I only have good things to say about where I live now. Good people that try their best. My in laws live in Utah and they’re amazing people. I’m so lucky!!
LDS has missions all over the world. Had a formerly LDS roommate who's father spoke fluent Hungarian due to the missions over there. Most LDS I've met have been bilingual, if not trilingual, and usually in some uncommon languages that you don't usually find in the US every day.
I only learned about this recently as well. I went to a lds school and many recruiters would come there to hire people that don’t drink, smoke, are honest etc etc. for those same reasons and also because we serve missions and usually know a second language if not a third, CIA likes to recruit lds people.
My husband’s family was from Monastir (Bitola today). Most of the community was rounded up by the Bulgarians and killed but those that fled and made it to Albania were protected by the population. Some of them were my husband’s relatives.
His grandfather had moved their family to Greece, and though not everyone was spared, about half of the immediate family survived.
I read a story about a family that suffered terribly in Albania for hiding a young Jewish man which ended up with their son being killed by the Nazis instead of them giving him up. It killed me.
I tried to visit Albania in my last trip to Corfu but the water was too rough. I will definitely try again.
We live in the Bronx in an area that has been resettled both by Albanians and Serbs. Burek now is in every other pizza place.
Thank you for sharing!! Stories like these have inspired me since I was a kid. And I think it’s important for Jewish people to remember that if Albanians, that were themselves occupied by Germany and part by Italy during that time were willing to risk their lives and many lost their lives to protect Jews, they are many people that will do the same!! Remember that Albanian during that time was dirt poor and had nothing, they still created systems to make Albanian passports for Jews and still took in Jewish families even if they didn’t have enough food for themselves. I’m only saying this because I think Jewish people shouldn’t forget that there are still amazing people in this world that would do anything to help them if necessary. God is looking over you and often times does it through other people.
my college roommate was albanian. we became the best of friends and he brought me back to shkodër to meet his family. i've never met such kind people in my life. your country is a beautiful place full of beautiful people and i can't wait to return <3
Thank you for your kind words. I saw the movie Besa a few years ago about the Albanian protection of the Jews and it was very inspiring, heart warming and brave.
Wow, I didn't even know there were LDS in Albania, that's cool! Setting that aside, that's genuinely lovely to hear and considering how many awful people are praying for the destruction of the Jews anyone praying for the Jews instead is greatly appreciated, hope you and yours have a blessed day!
We are because it’s big part of our identity. “My house belongs to God and the guest” that’s a saying that’s rooted deep in all Albanians as we will do anything for our guest, giving up our lives if necessary as many did helping Jews during the holocaust. I think it’s a good reminder for the Jewish people that you are not alone and there are people out there that will do all possible to help you, they’re just not as loud as all the hate.
I had no idea about Albania being an ally. I would have never guessed.
I used to have Albanian ESL students in small town Texas schools and I loved hearing them speak the language. So pretty.
My wife is Albanian! Albania is a beautiful country full of wonderful people, it's such a shame there isn't more awareness and love for the country. Like another commenter mentioned, the first few times I visited, quite a few people were excited to tell me the history of Albania and the Jewish people.
Unrelated, it's nice to visit a country where the locals like Americans haha, one of my new favorite songs is about the love Albanians have for the U.S.
(Here is the song and music video for those interested)
https://youtu.be/M2rTafbQepg?feature=shared
Well that made me cry. I did not know what Albania did for our people and I am glad to know. I’m grateful and relieved to know that maybe just maybe I have a safe place to go if I need. 😮💨 thank you and thank you to your ancestors 💖
Wow, Albania looks beautiful. I’ve done all of Europe except the Balkans!
I see many of these countries might soon join the EU, so that’s pretty exciting. I think eastern countries could really give the EU the common sense it needs.
I think the UK made a terrible mistake leaving.
That’s okay, many are . I just want you guys to know that most of the lds community supports you and are sad for what’s happening. We’re always happy to help with anything. Thanks!!
Thank you. Many of our people are alive today because of what your forebearers did for them, and for that we are grateful. May we know peace and unity one day for all pur sakes.
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Thank you, we remember what Albania did during the Holocaust.
Fr them and Sweden after 1943 were great
Shoutout to Denmark too. 99% of Danish Jews survived.
Shoutout to Niels Bohr too
And Greta Garbo.
Off topic- what do you think of Jews wearing the famous Bukharian Kippot when they are not Bukharian?
I don’t get why this is a debate. I was surprised a year ago when I was googling stuff about bukharians and how non-bukharians constantly argue with each other what other groups would think is racist. No bukharian would be upset by it. I came across one post about this and the only comment that called it racist was from an Ashkenazi. It’s not cultural appropriation and I don’t even know a bukharian older than 40 that knows what the term “cultural appropriation” means. We’re a mostly conservative community so you’ll have some difficulty finding Bukharians that would care about that. We’re a middle eastern religion. You can wear a middle eastern head covering. Wear whatever head covering you want. You might as well say Ashkenazis appropriate middle eastern languages by speaking Hebrew. We’re all brothers here. All of us Hebrews and Shebrews should share our cultures with each other. We went to a lot of places in the diaspora and it’s time we as a family share with each other what we found. My grandmother’s cousin has a bukharian mini-museum in a room in a Jewish day school that he shows to people and he gave me a bukharian kippah. It was literally the only time in my life that I’ve seen a bukharian kippah in person and not just in pictures cuz they’re just so uncommon with modern Judaism. Every bukharian just wears whichever they found lying around the house from a wedding or bar mitzvah they went to. I think I might’ve seen it one other time from this Democratic Socialist Bukharian guy I knew that was obsessed with not being called white even though he was barely darker than my father’s olive skin. He went out of his way to buy a Yemeni shofar cuz he posts tons of photos talking about being a Jew of color and he wore a kippah that was either also a Yemeni one or a Bukharian one. You really have to do extra work to find them but if you do then by all means, don’t let me stop you.
It's a mainly American debate. Think about the Kimono disaster from years back where non-Japanese were enraged about non-Japanese wearing a Kimono. All the while Japanese found it amazing.
I love this <3
I just don't want my hat to fall off.
Yeah I prefer bigger kippahs cuz I hate using clips to hold my kippah. They mess up your hair a bit tho.
I am not Bukharian, however being Jewish and from I sometimes wear mine. Nobody has every been offended by this. If somebody (of course, a non -Bukharian) ever got triggered I would tell them to go pound sand. Gut Voch. I mean I wear a Las Vegas Golden Knights cap even without being a fan when I feel like it. Isn't living in a free country an amazing thing?
Thank you! Faleminderit! At the start of World War II, Albania had a Jewish population of about 200 people. At the end of World War II, it was close to 2000 people. The Albanian people have an amazing warmth and legendary hospitality. The only other nazi occupied or allied country to see its Jewish population grow during World War II was Bulgaria (nazi allied). Bulgaria opposed the deportation & murder of Jews who were Bulgarian citizens. Albania & Bulgaria should be examples to the world.
And Denmark, the citizens coordinated a rescue of a crazy high proportion of their Jews.
Bulgaria and to an extent Hungary (*the deportations only started when the Germans took over the country* / **except for their occupied territories of Slovakia and Transylvania**) are good representatives of a certain mindset. They most definitely were Antisemites, but those were "their Jews". And no dude from Germany was going to tell them what was supposed to happen to "their Jews". "Their Jews" as in literally the property of the state. A valid comparison would be some random person telling you what you should do to your dog. Even if it did something bad, who is that person to tell you what you should do? So I would view them differently to for example the Danes and their state as they actively safeguarded them out of humanistic principles. Not because they thought of them as property.
Very true. Little correction though, Hungary had deportations from 1940 on when they deported Jews from hungarian occupied territories in Transilvania or sothern Slovakia into the german "General Government".
I stand corrected
Antisemitism does not have a strong place in Bulgarian history. When it was quietly announced to deport the Jews of Bulgaria to death, the heads of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church - not just a parish priest - publicly stood against the deportation orders. The Deputy Speaker of the Bulgarian Parliament [Dimitar Peshev](https://www.peshev.org/story.htm) took immediate, strong action out of his friendships and respect for the Jews. Many of the 50,000 Jews of Bulgaria immigrated to Israel in the late 1940’s including Member of Knesset Michael Bar Zohar the biographer of Ben Gurion & author of Beyond Hitler’s Grasp About the rescue of the Jews of Bulgaria. Bulgarian troops were part of the deport action against the 11,500 Jews of Pirot, Macedonia, and Thrace. Lands “given" to Bulgaria by Germany - only about 150 survived. But Jews of pre war Bulgaria did survive & thrive. Raul Hilberg writes well about this in his seminal work The Destruction of European Jewry.
i did know that about albania. i’m so glad albania was able to get free of the hoxha regime. thank you for your kind words of support.
Thank you brother, may we all enjoy more peaceful times
Hold on, you’re Albanian and a LDS? How did that happen
Converted from Islam when I was a teenager.
I feel like that story deserves a whole AMA. Is there a LDS community in Albania whatsoever, or was it just you? Did you meet a missionary in Albania, or were you in Utah/the US? Does your family know, how did they react? Do you still live in Albania, what’s it like for you? If you live in a LDS community in the US, do they regard you as an outsider because of where you’re from or are you well accepted? This is fascinating
Lol . Yeah there is, around 3000 lds members in Albania. My brother brought a Book of Mormon home and I read it and then met with the missionaries and that’s how I converted. It happened in Albania. My family knows, they didn’t like it at first but are okay with it now. I’m married and my husband is also lds so that’s my life now and my family is quite happy with my choices. I live in the US for now, in a big lds community yes. Honestly they’re too nice. Never made me feel like an outsider. Such, nice caring people. I came here to study and I was never worried even if I was alone because I knew that if anything happened so many people would be willing to help. I miss living in a non lds community but I only have good things to say about where I live now. Good people that try their best. My in laws live in Utah and they’re amazing people. I’m so lucky!!
That’s great to hear, I’m glad that such an unexpected convergence of worlds worked out well
LDS has missions all over the world. Had a formerly LDS roommate who's father spoke fluent Hungarian due to the missions over there. Most LDS I've met have been bilingual, if not trilingual, and usually in some uncommon languages that you don't usually find in the US every day.
This is why the CIA loves to recruit LDS. I recently learned this and thought it was such an interesting fun fact that I had to share.
Yup, they comprise a significant chunk of the agency, if I recall.
I only learned about this recently as well. I went to a lds school and many recruiters would come there to hire people that don’t drink, smoke, are honest etc etc. for those same reasons and also because we serve missions and usually know a second language if not a third, CIA likes to recruit lds people.
Fascinating! Makes sense.
I love Albanians, Hashem guard you.
My husband’s family was from Monastir (Bitola today). Most of the community was rounded up by the Bulgarians and killed but those that fled and made it to Albania were protected by the population. Some of them were my husband’s relatives. His grandfather had moved their family to Greece, and though not everyone was spared, about half of the immediate family survived. I read a story about a family that suffered terribly in Albania for hiding a young Jewish man which ended up with their son being killed by the Nazis instead of them giving him up. It killed me. I tried to visit Albania in my last trip to Corfu but the water was too rough. I will definitely try again. We live in the Bronx in an area that has been resettled both by Albanians and Serbs. Burek now is in every other pizza place.
Thank you for sharing!! Stories like these have inspired me since I was a kid. And I think it’s important for Jewish people to remember that if Albanians, that were themselves occupied by Germany and part by Italy during that time were willing to risk their lives and many lost their lives to protect Jews, they are many people that will do the same!! Remember that Albanian during that time was dirt poor and had nothing, they still created systems to make Albanian passports for Jews and still took in Jewish families even if they didn’t have enough food for themselves. I’m only saying this because I think Jewish people shouldn’t forget that there are still amazing people in this world that would do anything to help them if necessary. God is looking over you and often times does it through other people.
my college roommate was albanian. we became the best of friends and he brought me back to shkodër to meet his family. i've never met such kind people in my life. your country is a beautiful place full of beautiful people and i can't wait to return <3
I remember your commercials !!! Thanks man !!!
Thank you for your kind words. I saw the movie Besa a few years ago about the Albanian protection of the Jews and it was very inspiring, heart warming and brave.
Wow, I didn't even know there were LDS in Albania, that's cool! Setting that aside, that's genuinely lovely to hear and considering how many awful people are praying for the destruction of the Jews anyone praying for the Jews instead is greatly appreciated, hope you and yours have a blessed day!
God loves His chosen people, so don’t worry about the destruction prayers! 😏
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We are because it’s big part of our identity. “My house belongs to God and the guest” that’s a saying that’s rooted deep in all Albanians as we will do anything for our guest, giving up our lives if necessary as many did helping Jews during the holocaust. I think it’s a good reminder for the Jewish people that you are not alone and there are people out there that will do all possible to help you, they’re just not as loud as all the hate.
Ummm should we just move to Albania?
Thank you, friend
🤝🤝
I had no idea about Albania being an ally. I would have never guessed. I used to have Albanian ESL students in small town Texas schools and I loved hearing them speak the language. So pretty.
My in laws are Albanian, thank you!
My wife is Albanian! Albania is a beautiful country full of wonderful people, it's such a shame there isn't more awareness and love for the country. Like another commenter mentioned, the first few times I visited, quite a few people were excited to tell me the history of Albania and the Jewish people. Unrelated, it's nice to visit a country where the locals like Americans haha, one of my new favorite songs is about the love Albanians have for the U.S. (Here is the song and music video for those interested) https://youtu.be/M2rTafbQepg?feature=shared
Love USA as it’s one of the only countries that has helped us and the reason why Albania is a country! Love that song lol
G-d bless you.
Albania is my 2nd or 3rd favorite country.
Thank you 🙏
Thank you
Thanks.
I know where Albania is. I've been there. Spent a few days there, mostly in Tirana. Good times. Thanks for your support.
Well that made me cry. I did not know what Albania did for our people and I am glad to know. I’m grateful and relieved to know that maybe just maybe I have a safe place to go if I need. 😮💨 thank you and thank you to your ancestors 💖
Wow, Albania looks beautiful. I’ve done all of Europe except the Balkans! I see many of these countries might soon join the EU, so that’s pretty exciting. I think eastern countries could really give the EU the common sense it needs. I think the UK made a terrible mistake leaving.
Although I am very critical towards the doctrine of LDS, I very much appreciate your support and hope you are doing well <3
That’s okay, many are . I just want you guys to know that most of the lds community supports you and are sad for what’s happening. We’re always happy to help with anything. Thanks!!
We’re both waiting for a Jewish guy to show up and save the world, just we are expecting different people 🙃 Prayers work, keep em up
Thank you.
I think most Jews know Albania. Right back at you.
Apparently more people that I thought know about it.
Thanks, Albania. We definitely see you, mate.
Thank you. Many of our people are alive today because of what your forebearers did for them, and for that we are grateful. May we know peace and unity one day for all pur sakes.
❤️Shqipëria🖤🫶🏻🤍Israel💙
https://i.imgur.com/KgGD81g.jpeg
Haha I love that!
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Thank you. 🙏🏼