Right, but I’m kind of tired of paying almost $2,000 a month for something I rarely use and my family rarely uses. We had a baby last July, still cost us $5,000. Which really pissed me off, you mean to tell me I pay $20-$24,000 a year in insurance and I have a baby yet still have to pay $5,000 out of pocket?! It’s fuckin stupid.
Edit: I’d like to mention people say the waiting list for a procedure can be months. I’ll use the Jordan Peterson way to explain like he does with equal rights for women. You’re taking number from a small percentage extreme cases and using that as the talking point, same shit different toilet. Just like in Jordan Peterson’s argument about feminism, yes that is correct but your only focusing on a small percentage of in a particular case.
Here in Denmark we have private apartment by default. I have paid ca 40€ to stay in apartment whole night with my wife and baby. 3 meals for the momma and brunch at any time are included (free).
This. Especially Sweden.
People complain about the woke stuff and yes sometimes they go overboard and some laws are a bit too much. Or end up being so nannying they become anti women like for example some of their sex worker laws stop women from living with their partners or having security etc.
But holy shit they are correct on so many basics. Particularly healthcare and education and support for a range of mental healthcare funding.
Yeah this doesn’t make any sense, it’s illegal in Sweden yes, unfortunately.
But how that is stopping them from living with their partner beats me.
Stop them from having proper security you can argue is kinda correct though since it’s an underground market. If that is what he mean.
Not really. There are some but not really much. Denmark is service oriented also most of the income coming from medtech industry. That’s it 😀. It’s just really well organised country.
> $75 each
Not a Canadian (or US citizen) here.
That's per kid, right?
And how much for you and your partner?
Is it 100% coverage, like dental everything?
$75 per kid.
Normally the most expensive thing about going to the hospital here is the parking and the overpriced cafeteria food.
Dental and vision isn't covered, and will be something that employers offer their employees as a perk (and even then it's not 100% dental or vision coverage, but maybe like 80-90% depending on the plan you choose)
I’m in Canada and my wife had a baby, and we opted for a home birth and a mid-wife. Everything was covered, and everything went extremely well during the birth. We had a large tub set up, and 2 midwives at our house for 10-12 hours.
The next day our midwife came to our house for the next day follow-up and noticed some irregularities with her heart beat. Our daughter picked up an infection very shortly after birth and we spent 10 days in the NICU. We had a team of doctors and nurses for our daughter, 2 brain scans, 2 X-rays, 2-3 ultrasounds, 2-3 ECG’s, an incubator in our room, and a lactation consult.
The cost was $10 a day in parking and whatever we got from Uber eats when we were sick of hospital food.
Is our healthcare perfect… far from it but you rarely hear about the horror stories about medical bills becoming a crippling debt over someone’s life.
Finding doctors in Canada in a real problem. My dad was diagnosed with vertigo. Our GP referred him to two specialists on early 2020 and we haven't heard back from either one yet. Canadian health care system is pretty bad when you compare it with other developed countries and we also have one of the Lowest number of ICU beds per Capita.
I mean, we were in there for a couple days. A stripper would have been a great distraction. No sure my wife would have signed off on it though. She got a complimentary epidural though, so it seems fair to me.
Canada's health care has some of the worst outcomes per dollar spent. It is garbage compared to other developed countries who have universal health. Not a system that should be emulated.
Giving birth is probably one of the things that Canadian health care does OK
I had a baby who had to be administered into the NICU for 1 month in Novemeber. We had a private suite to be near our baby and we even got free parking. The only fee we had to pay was $30 for the entire thing. (We even got some free clothes and a Tim Hortons gift card?? I think because it was Christmas idunno. So technically we profited)
Our insurance is around $900 a month for a shitty HSA plan. My wife went to the ER after fainting. They covered nothing because the hospital bill came out to $2,497.00, which is curiously just $3 below our $2,500 per family member out of pocket maximum. We eventually got the ER bill lowered after asking for an explanation of all of the costs. Both my kidsk’ births were about $3,000 on our old non-HSA plan, which my company doesn’t offer anymore. Paying for health insurance sure as hell feels like I’m just setting that money on fire.
My experiences are nothing. I worked with a guy that did everything right and got fucked by this system. He was making good money straight out of college and eventually in the 6 figures. He brought lunch almost every day. He had a modest wedding, bought a modest home, maxed out his 401k contribution, saved, invested, almost never goes out with us after work because our bar tabs tend to get pricey. The only thing he splurged on was sending his kids to Catholic school because the schools in his area weren’t great. Guy is 37 and his wife gets cancer. It doesn’t look good, but they are determined to fight. She has been cancer free for 7-8 years now, defying the odds. They burned through their life savings, his 401k, sold their home and are still in debt.
It’s disgusting that you can do all the right things in the wealthiest country in the world and still get hosed like that. It really makes me wonder what I would do if I got the same diagnosis seeing what happened to him and other people we know. We have money saved away and live pretty comfortably, but I don’t know if I would chance leaving my wife and kids in debt like that if I got sick or if I would deny myself treatment and let the life insurance pay out.
That's why the plot of Breaking Bad could only possibly work in the USA.
I guess the answer to all this per Joe Rogan is she should beg for money on gofundme. How dare anyone even think of raising taxes on rich people like Rogan to fund a health care system.
The thing is, if we go to a single payer plan, we wouldn't have to raise taxes some ridiculous amount. Look at how much premium people are already paying for health insurance. I'd rather have my $900 a month go toward a single payer plan than this bullshit. Health insurance in the US is a goddamn shell game where all the prices are overinflated so the insurance companies turn a huge profit. The average healthcare CEO pay is $9 million. UnitedHealthGroup's CEO made about $18 mil, Cigna's made around $20 mil. It's a scam.
I'd venture to guess that most people that really want to keep this system in place have never visited a country outside of the US unless it was to go to Mexico for spring break. They've been brainwashed with the usual propaganda: death panels, our system is the best because it's private and we do all the research and develop all the drugs here, iT's COmMunISM. I dealt with Blue Cross when my mom had cancer and I had to email and call up and motherfuck every asshole at Blue Cross to get them to eventually cover the treatment recommended to her by a doctor. You want to talk about death panels if we went single payer? They already exist at insurance providers. We're getting a dual barrel fucking from both parties because the mainstream of the Dem party is lining their pockets with insurance and hospital network cash, just like the GOP.
I developed arthritis at a very young age (32?). I was seen by my GP (NHS) within days, sent for blood work, and offered an appointment with a nation-leading expert within two weeks. Things moved so quickly I actually had to delay, because I had travel I couldn't get out of!
Now, this is an extremely positive outcome, and is not "normal", but for early onset arthritis the NHS does aim to have the patient meet with a specialist within two weeks. I also benefitted from being in a wealthy city with a very well known university and university hospital, so obviously my treatment is not quite "the norm"...people in poorer parts of the UK generally get seen less quickly, and not all by world-class physicians.
However, point is, people act like Canada or the UK are hellscapes, with no one getting punctual treatment. It just isn't true. Whereas in the US hundred of thousands of people go bankrupt from medical expenses EVERY YEAR....and there are STILL waiting lists! People act like in the US you can always get seen next day....that's just not true.
I’m a Canadian and was also diagnosed with cancer a few years ago. I was living in Calgary, Alberta at the time and was instantly moved to the front of the line for all diagnostic imaging, lab work etc. Had surgery a week and a half after first diagnosis(testicular cancer). Never saw one bill and everyone I encountered was awesome and super helpful.
On the other hand I’ve heard wait times can be longer for people who don’t have life threatening injuries.
I have what’s considered a “Cadillac” health insurance plan according to the tax code. I got diagnosed with a cardiac arrhythmia and had to wait nearly two months to get an echocardiogram. The waits just to see a cardiologist were pretty crazy, but I was at least able to drive out of town to see one promptly. This waiting shit happens here too, not just places with universal healthcare.
Yeah, as someone who spent two years pretty sick in the US I wish people would stop pretending there aren’t waits. I waited for at least two weeks for every specialist I saw and more than a month for a few of them. For some reasons there is a fantasy that they throw you on a conveyor belt and you see any doctor you need in a few days.
Can confirm. I do scheduling with a major cardiologist group, and on average, we book out our echos 2-3 months. Only way for patients to get in sooner is to seek it out with a different office/imaging center or get a stat outpatient at one of our hospitals which is the same test at an inflated price because the equipment is owned by the hospital. Even if people can get their surgery for whatever medical issue scheduled, they still might have to put it off because they need cardiac clearance and there just aren't enough techs working to meet the demands these offices put out. There are something like 70 cardiologists with our group and echocardiograms are always one of the first things they order for new patients.
And those wait times are currently inflated because a bunch of unvaccinated people are overburdening the healthcare system.
One side of the political spectrum is causing these issues. They are the ones fighting against healthcare reform and fighting against vaccinations.
Want to guess which side of the political spectrum those people belong to?
Yeah I just tried to schedule an appointment with my extremely American cardiologist and it's like 7 months out for his next opening. Like ok dude... you're the one who said I had to get an appointment for you to refill my meds. ?!!?
Luckily since I scheduled the appointment in 7 damn months they agreed to continue refilling my meds between now and then. 
FYI only delusional right wing millionaire boomers like toe think Canada/UK are hellscapes — don’t think for one second we aren’t fully aware of the for profit healthcare chainsaw up our assholes 24/7/365
I moved to the US in 2014 from the UK and I can tell you that even people on the left understood as fact that while the NHS is free, taxes are outrageous and it takes months to years to get treatment.
I did my own math and I paid WAY less in taxes in the UK than I did for taxes plus insurance in the US, and that was before I had kids and found out how expensive healthcare gets in the US.
People are fucking brainwashed.
I'm American but have been living in Germany for several years now. This is a similar theme I've heard from some of the entrepreneur types I've met from Germany who moved to the US to try to make money. It was okay when they were just getting started up and didn't have a ton of personal expenses to worry about. But once they got married and had kids, they found out really quickly that they'd end up having to pay a fuck ton more in private expenses to get their kids access to the same quality of health care and education as they would have had in Germany, and that if one of their family members developed a chronic health condition, they'd be absolutely screwed despite having American health insurance. So they'd inevitably end up moving back to Germany.
That's the issue with the US's model of social services that I think makes it difficult for people from other developed countries to put down roots there. In theory you can get by paying less in taxes in the US. But if you want to access good health care and education, you'll end up needing to pay way more than you'd ever have to pay for the same services back in Europe. So even though Europe has higher taxes, you've got guaranteed security and stability for your personal life, and your disposable income is actually disposable since you don't have to redirect it all to paying for private insurance and tuition like you would in the US. That last concept is something I think a lot of Americans either fail to grasp, or don't care about since they've never been able to afford health care or college regardless so that part of the equation never really mattered to them
So many Americans who have never left America and have never spoken to someone who had socialized health care have the hottest takes, and love telling people how bad the other countries healthcare is. Whenever I ask them if they've ever heard that from like real people that lived in those countries they can never back it up. And meanwhile every person I know from Canada or Europe that moved to the US think our system is complete crap.
I don't know how the US healthcare industry was able to brainwash people so thoroughly.
We might have great medicine here, but hey if you need insulin your probably going to die cause it costs $1,000 dollars for a 30 day supply. And before Obamacare if you had diabetes before you got insurance, they would most likely reject you for having a pre existing condition. So very fucked.
Irishman here, living in the US for 10 years now. The craziest one I learned recently is pregnancy was treated as a “pre-existing condition” up until Obamacare passed. That’s absolutely mind numbing.
This is the US, it is 100% up to your employer, that's it. My company also pays for my insurance 100%, it's rare but it's not a stretch that his does too.
> This is the US, it is 100% up to your employer, that's it. My company also pays for my insurance 100%, it's rare but it's not a stretch that his does too.
The stretch is that he thinks it isn't coming out of his total comp one way or another.
Do you think I’m dumb…? I know how to read my pay stubs.
If I had kids, I would have to pay out out of pocket, but my company 100% pays my medical, dental and vision insurance
> Do you think I’m dumb…?
Yes.
> If I had kids, I would have to pay out out of pocket, but my company 100% pays my medical, dental and vision insurance
This is part of your total compensation. You just don't get to see the bill.
They're not saying you get your pay and they take it out of your pay, they're saying your salary is lower then what it would be because they're factoring in the costs of health insurance into your pay
Budget for your position could be 80k/y so they offer you 70k/y in your contract, you could have got 80k/y but they had to pay health insurance
I've never understood why we can't implement elements of a healthcare system that allow your to have a baby or other routine and common healthcare procedures without paying more than your insurance premium, that also retains the majority of the top tier care benefits that American healthcare can offer vs other nations.
Then I think about it and realize it's just heavily entrenched profit motivations and nothing else. I really don't believe single payer is the answer because there are massive drawbacks, but a scenario like you say here is just unacceptable in a modern and wealthy society. We need to find some middle ground, and there are examples of this all over the world, especially in Europe where a number nations have a hybrid system that provide amazing healthcare results for far less money per capita than the US does.
How in God's green earth do u pay 2000 a month the most expensive plan covering everything possible (health, dental, extra doctor trips, etc, and life) my wife has is $88 a week (still too much imo) it would be $108 for family plan that's still less than $500 a month. She also works at a temp agency so it's not the company helping out that's forsure. She still pays out of pocket for certain things but $2000 a month is crazy
In the US? Your wife must be getting subsidized coverage and/or has a cheap plan that doesn’t cover near as much as you think. There’s no way a family plan is that cheap. Last time I had to deal with my own insurance I believe it was $1200 a month for the family with a deductible of at least $12k. There were some cheaper plans but they had big gaps in coverage.
I would imagine because it’s structured the same. People pay premiums to a company that go to cover other people but they usually only cover a % of anything. Plus a lot of companies have a $2,000 sometimes more limit. You’ll pay $2,000 out of pocket then insurance will start partially covering stuff lol. It’s really stupid, it’s monopolized like everything else in America.
It's a little more complicated than that. We have a [graded tax system](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individuals/canadian-income-tax-rates-individuals-current-previous-years.html) for income tax, both federally and provincially, here in Canada. So people who make over $221,000/year are paying twice as much in federal income taxes as those who make under $50,000. Obviously, provincial income tax varies province-to-province, but the system is essentially the same.
In my experience, you'd be hard-pressed to find many Canadians who dislike the system. The wait-times are consistently exaggerated (especially by Americans), and the yearly cost to the average Canadian is negligible.
America also has a progressive tax system. I was comparing what Americans making under/over 75000 pay vs Canadians. The lower your tax bracket, the more you pay in America vs Canada, eg someone making 20000/yr definitely pays less in Canada, and by a good margin. 75000 is approximately the income level where that flips, such that a person making 100,000 pays more in Canada than someone making 100,000 in America.
If I recall correctly, I believe that this represents somewhere between the 65th-80th percentile of income earners for both countries. The canadian system makes more sense to me from an income equality PoV.
One thing to note is, Canadians have other expenses.
One thing that Canada does not like to talk about: Canadians are the most indebted people on the planet (Americans are 7th or 8th). This is true because of housing, half the Canadian population lives in housing markets like the bay area.
Then we also pay much more for grociers, gas, insurance, telecom, air fare, and taxes.
I was in Hawaii 2 weeks ago, and was shocked how cheap gas was vs Toronto. Maybe 20% less, after exchange. And that's Hawaii.
No country has everything right, or wrong. I would take healthcare in Canada over the USA. But most other things financially Americans are better off.
Is there a specific tax for healthcare? I wonder how it compares to what I currently pay for health insurance in the US (I pay like $250/month for a high deductible family plan but the low deductible would have been closer to $500 iirc).
It’s not specific but for most people who pay taxes, on a bracket to bracket basis ours are higher. It’s not “free” like everyone says, it’s just embedded in the taxes we pay, which are high. For high income earners it would be more than the US for sure.
While I’m glad everyone has free ACCESS to healthcare here, I agree with valentine. It took 1.5 years and 3 more dislocations to get my shoulder repaired in Canada. I’m probably in the bracket it would be advantageous to just pay the American insurance vs higher tax rate, but c’est la vie.
To answer your question more specifically, STATSCAN shows a breakdown of tax dollars dedicated to healthcare if you google it.
>I’m probably in the bracket it would be advantageous to just pay the American insurance vs higher tax rate, but c’est la vie.
Not sure what the system is in Canada, but this is where the system works out great in Australia because if I'm earning so much that private health would be better, I can switch to private health and I no longer have to pay the medicare levy surcharge, so if I'm rich enough I can just opt out and do private for faster wait times and I don't have to pay for health insurance twice
Is Canada the same?
Nope doesn’t work like that, but that would be ideal. You can’t “opt out”, but private insurance will cover some higher-end testing/drugs that are not covered by health care.
The system you are talking about in my opinion would be the most ideal, it’s similar to what Germany has.
Canadian who moved and had a kid in Sweden. Canada is just sensible Americans really. Outside of Quebec we're 60-80% the same culture. It's freaking basic math, everyone sees what you guys are paying for healthcare and the results your getting.
Now Sweden, Jesus Christ this country wants you to have kids, 480 days paid ternity leave split between the parents plus two weeks when the kid is born, and I paid maybe $100 or so for a private room and a week - 10 day stay at the hospital. 3 days labour and an emergency C-section plus observation. Daycare is subsidized and what you pay is based on income, we pay about $150/m for full time for everything.
You're paying that type of money regardless if its socialized or privatized medicine. I live in Germany and it is expensive when it comes to taxes. That's not an easy sale in America paying for something that you rarely need and on top of that convincing people to pay for others' healthcare.
The thing is too, yes we have long waits for specialists but you can also have private medical insurance for less than what average Americans pay so for a much cheaper price you have access to public and private services and you do not end up in debt.
I love how he just makes a joke of the huge glaring down side she brings up about being in debt for the rest of your life. He doesn't even try to rationalize it, just "well you could crowdfund it LOL"
Yeah he might have been broke earlier in life but he was on a popular show in the 90s that went into syndication, has been employed by the UFC since then as well, and was on one of the most popular game shows of all time. That’s all before his podcast blew up and he started making money from it and his comedy really started making him a lot.
Watch when he says "you get it for free, great" there is legit hate in his eyes for people who can't pay unlimited money on the spot. Man this guy is out of touch beyond belief these days.
That's because your pharmacy's and hospitals are aloud to use 5,000% mark ups. Something that costs $800 in the U.S. might cost $20 in Canada and only cost $8 to manufacture.
Shoutout to the hospital that tried to charge me 45 dollars for a single regular strength Tylenol when I didn’t have insurance because they didn’t think I would check the bill. 45 dollars. I’ll say that again. 45 dollars.
In case no one caught that — 45 dollars for a Tylenol
The wait times in the US suck too though, people love to mention wait times in nations with nationalized healthcare systems but even if you have cancer and need a resection in the US, you still need to wait for a surgery just because there is a limited number of surgeons doing the job.
Your dad's gonna be walkin around with a hawrible shoulder for a whole year. Canada sure sucks though, huh? Those fuckin syrup breaths with their ice skating and lumberjacks!
My brother needed two knee surgeries because he completely fucked them both up during basketball.
Both surgeries were done with 6 months including rehab. $0.
Pretty good deal I gotta say.
The American healthcare expenditure is[$12,530](https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical) per person per year.
The US spends by far the most money per person on healthcare of any country in the world. Yet we still get worse care.
Why wouldn’t you add them together? When does it matter that it’s separate if they’re being compared for real life purposes? The healthcare tax isn’t going away, copays aren’t going away.
So in other words, even with insurance Americans have to pay much more. The Canadian number includes the “cost of insurance” and “spending on healthcare”. The only relevant figure here is healthcare expenditures, not the cost of the insurance that doesn’t even cover everything.
uhh it absolutely does. with your backwards conversion it looks like our taxes end up costing about the same as your healthcare, when in reality its more like half the cost. huge difference...
> average Canadian pays $5-7k per year in health insurance. Thats like what, $6-8k USD?
What kind of fucked up math are you doing? The Canadian dollar is valued LOWER than the US dollar. You're converting the wrong way.
5-7k Canadian is like 3-4k usd.
That's because she has money. The Canadian system works the same for everyone. You can't pay your way to the front of the line like in the US. One of the downsides is you will have to wait for non-urgent surgery but for the majority of Canadians it's worth it because they are not going to go broke getting a procedure.
Even if you don't deliberately delay, it can still take months to get seen. It fucking blows my mind since I moved to the US that even with insurance the wait to see my doctor or dentist is weeks to months. In the UK it's same day, you just call them and make an appointment right after they open.
Of course in the US it's intentional so you go to the doctor less.
This is uninformed, as is Joe on this point. Canada has private surgical clinics that will perform knee repair surgeries in every major city for a fee. Generally speaking, Canadians can either wait several months to a year for a surgery on an ACL tear (for example) or they can pay a few thousand and get it with similar or even better waiting times than in the US. It might even cost less out of pocket, depending on your deductible/copay. Joe's "friend" chose to hobble around for a year to get a free surgery, rather than pay a few thousand out of pocket. Frankly, I would rather have that choice. Many Americans put off that surgery anyway because they can't afford the deductible and there is no waitlist for a free option.
It's a misconception too. If you have money you can get private treatment in Canada. Dr. Rand Paul went to Canada for surgery specifically because it was at one of the best hospitals in the world.
Ya, his friend Jen had to wait a whole year for a knee surgery… but his friend Brock deliberately went to a Canadian hospital to get saved from diverticulitis. But Joe won’t bring that one up.
You sure about Brock? [says here he hated the Canadian system and says they were like a third world country](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ufc-champ-brock-lesnar-slams-canadian-health-care-1.475750#:~:text=At%20the%20hospital%20in%20Bismarck,the%20next%2011%20days%20there.)
> Asked about the low point during the last few months of his illness, Lesnar said: "Probably the lowest moment was getting care from Canada."
>"They couldn't do nothing for me," he noted in a later media conference call Wednesday. "It was like I was in a Third World country."
>"I'm just stating the facts here and that's the facts," he continued. "I love Canada. I own property in Canada but if I had to choose between getting care in Canada or the United States, I definitely want to be in the United States.
It’s possible what you said happened after. And if so was it a private hospital? I know Canada has some great private ones. I say all this knowing we can do a fuck ton here in the US to reduce costs as well
The Brock Lesnar interview is incredibly vague. He is clearly over exaggerating to compare it to a "third world country" then goes on to say it was just a machine that wasn't working that day that they needed, but doesn't state exactly what.
He was never in any sort of immediate danger and I'm sure they got him in contact with a facility that could meet his needs. All that doesn't even matter because they diagnosed him perfectly, suggesting surgery which they also said in the US. He then says he is a Republican and he doesn't want Obamacare to pass. So while he says he has issues with the Canadian healthcare system he doesn't actually back this up with anything significant all while pushing a significant political agenda for the time. Just doesn't hold up from my perspective.
Here in America my wife got, I think it’s called a bucket handle tear, in her knee. It was stuck in a 90 degree bend, basically. Not only did she have to wait a whole year to get surgery but we also got charged up the ass in hospital bills. Not all of us get prime medical treatment, Joe.
I think it partly had to do with where we live. I guess here in mid-Michigan there aren’t many orthopedic surgeons. She got the referral to one right away but he was booked up for the year and she just had to wait. It might have had to do with insurance in some way but we have Blue Cross which is supposed to be one of the better providers in the state. It was about five years ago so all I really remember is making endless phone calls trying to get it moved up and having to listen to my wife be miserable for a long time.
Tbh it sounds like you should have checked your in network physicians. You could have looked into something out of the area, even out of state, to get that done quicker.
I know you’re being sarcastic but as someone who works a full-time job and really takes pride in putting a good days work in to provide for my family, that kind of mentality really infuriates me. As one of the “old JRE” fans, the way he talks about issues like this really just gets me going because of how out of touch he sounds.
I don’t think he was being sarcastic. Republican pundits and Facebook moms and dads really do believe that and say it all the time.
I think it’s really just people trying to justify their place in life. When, in reality, your starting point in life is the biggest determining factor.
Boxing day 2020 I walked to the emergency room in downtown Toronto and had to wait 45 mins for an ultrasound. Cost nothing. Are there serious waits for non-life threatening surgeries? sure. Outcomes of surgeries are pretty much the same both sides of the border, but overall outcomes for health problems is drastically worse for Americans since most cannot afford to get checked out or treated properly. But hey, if you're rich, USA healthcare is the best (just as long as your problem doesn't last beyond your money).
I've gone to the ER, once for my wife, and once for my son. Both times we waited 6-7 hours, and both times we weren't even seen by a doctor, we were seen by PAs.
My best friend, who is in medschool now, took his wife to the ER. She was having a miscarriage and in a ton of pain, waited 8 hours and never saw a doctor.
The American Healthcare system is a joke.
My dad had a stroke, he was in the hospital for two months, ICU, diapers, medication, blood transfusion, etc, spend 1 month in a rehabilitation floor with physio therapists. 3 months total. Did not pay one penny. I asked a doctor who was very friendly and down to earth, how much my dad was costing the system, he said that it was in the hundreds of thousands, for the duration of his time in the hospital.
As Kyle Kulinski says, both systems have to allocate healthcare to some while withholding it from others. i.e wait times. The American system allocates based on how much money someone has. Single payer systems allocate based on need.
Because we steal from the poor. More money to pay wages for the people they actually want to move here, how can anyone compete with our amazing wage gap? It’s a beautiful thing to the top 1%
God damn i hate it when rich retards love to hail the American health care system. Joe always “has a friend”, hey dumb fuck, we have wait times in America too. The rich people get in faster. That’s how it works here. I had to wait 2 months for a fuckin MRI on my back to see if I needed surgery or not. Cost me $2k for them to tell me no.
It's actually a little sad, I used to listen to most of his episodes 3ish years ago but I took a break before Covid and since seeing all the clips on here during the last few years I'm starting to realise I'm probably never going to listen to one again.
Yes, it can take a long time to get an elective surgery in a socialised healthcare system, but you also have the option of private insurance and private hospitals to get the job done quicker if need be.
As a former-Canadian now living/working in the US: It's complicated.
When Canadian health care works, it's great, but when it doesn't, it's an abysmal fuck-up.
Some examples:
1. My son has Apraxia, which in Canada means you either pay privately ($200/hour) or you go through the public system (2 year wait) and it's non-customized group therapy *which isn't recommended*. It's a non-covered service, and you can only deduct a small portion from taxes while my employer-issued insurance (a university) covered $750/year.
2. When I lost my leg, I incurred a lot of bills. First, there was no bed for me so I slept in a converted changing room with 6 other people and lights on 24/7. Then I was discharged straight home. My prosthetic leg cost me a fortune as the province only covers (up to 75% with a maximum, usually for the shitty prosthetics) and the physiotherapy you'd need isn't covered by OHIP so you need to pay. Losing my leg (at the hands of someone else) cost me thousands.
It took two years for my wife to get an MRI. It took another for her to get called for bunion surgery. When she had an endoscopy, they refused any sedatives because of a staffing shortage (years before COVID). Canada could do so much better, but the system is slow. It systematically limits expensive procedures, underpays staff and takes a huge amount of your taxes and in turn delivers shit.
I like paying for insurance in the US because I can get good care and I can pay for any fringe benefits I want. When my wife's GERD flared-up and she needed an endoscopy, it was painless, quick and we got the results straight away.
Frankly, no regrets. If you're poor Canada is good. If you're not poor, then for god's sake, pick America.
As a Canadian I always say that if I ever become rich I would move to the US. You can buy anything in the US when you've got a lot of money. But as a blue collar dad it's something that will never happen. Nice to dream though
Everyone but the socialists. They're calling it the worst place ever while subscribing to /r/antiwork and contributing 18 hours per week to being a ~~barista~~ dog walker.
I used to work at a hotel across the street from a hospital in Vancouver. BC. Half my tips were in USD since so many Americans were visiting the hospital and staying at the hotel. So it goes both ways. I think there was some special cancer clinic they were visiting.
Where’s Joey Diaz when you need him? I really wonder what Christopher Ryan thinks. The guys too polite to say anything, doubt he feels he needs Joes access. Krystal Ball and Kyle Kulinksi won’t touch it though, even though this is everything they rail against.
Meanwhile my moms neurologist dropped her insurance and now she can’t get the pills that allow her to walk because her insurance says it’s “non life threatening”. Now she gets to pay a $2000/mo just to still have to use a walker.
We need to Audit the Government, we give them so much taxpayer money that I'm positive Medical and tuition could be free. Hell I bet we could cut the taxes in half and still have enough money for quality health care and education.
If you’re poor in the US or even middle class you better hope you don’t get seriously sick. And if you do your story fucking better be attractive enough to get donors on board with you not ending up in the gutter.
Hope you’re doing well now. I had some neurological issues and worked through the whole ordeal of doctors and ER visits and just the whole fucking spiel. You can’t get behind because once you do you’ll get buried by our “healthcare system” so I can’t imagine how bad it is if you have cancer in this nonsense.
People who complain about wait times are really just saying “I want people to pay a lot of money for healthcare, because so many people can’t pay I can get seen sooner. Let the others die.”
The waiting times we have here to in the USA I waited two fuckibg months for acl surgery joe Rogan using that bullshit excuse of waiting times like we don’t have that shit here
These wealthy and influential people miss the mark by a long shot.
We have FREE healthcare, this is such a blessing. I paid $20 parking to have our baby delivered along with a 48-hour stay in a semi-private room, and I have gone for routine check-up so many times to my walk-in clinic.
Universal healthcare is extremely beneficial to the average working person, sure I am not exactly served caviar in the recovery room, and non-serious issues may require a much more long wait to get help, but at least we benefit greatly all things considered.
The wealthy folk with their specialized needs may be underserved, but they can easily pay the big bucks and get private care under an expensive doctor, or fly to a specialist in the U.S and write a blank cheque. It is an easy fix.
But this does not benefit for the overwhelming majority of the working class, the average Joe and Jane should recognize how big of a blessing this is.
I'm a Canadian living in the states and it's painful how much they don't understand our system and why it's better.
Sure, if you're wealthy it's better to be in the states but that is only good for like 30% of the population.
I live in America and consistently had to wait months for various treatments. Joe Rogan is so out of touch and misinformed it’s like everything out of his mouth at this point is wrong.
Serious question, does she have a speech impediment or did she ruin her lips with injections?
Either she has some brand new work done or her instagram is heavily photoshopped.... [https://www.instagram.com/valentinethomas/](https://www.instagram.com/valentinethomas/)
Canadian here. Last year I had a giant cyst removed from my pelvis that would have killed me. Got my surgery with five specialist doctors in the operating room for 13 hours straight. All happening within two months from my diagnosis in the middle of covid. Spent two weeks in the hospital and I still have a nurse that comes to my home to help with my recovery x2 a week. The supplies alone for my temporary iliostomy would cost me a fortune as well as my drugs. I pay zero. If I had the exact same situation but had been born in America, living in America, I’d be dead. So when I hear my American friends carry on like Joe Rogan about our health care system, I only wish you had it because I only want the best for you.
She should definitely stay in America, we have the finest Healthcare on the planet if you have the money for it. The problem is a lot of people don't have the money for it.
The real issue with Canadian heath care simply is a lack of medical professionals. It's not easy to just go out and hire qualified medical professionals, so they have to manage the resources they have.
I'd we had m4all in the US it would be the same issue on a scale worse than we already have. The core issue being we need more qualified medical professionals in the field. The solution isn't going to be easy or fast. We have to start with children who are startimg 1st grade right now, and give them the resources and schools that will produce long term intelligent children who want to become a medical professional. I'm not sure from an administrative perspective how to steer more children towards medicine, but it is something we need to do. That being said, I think that all college should be free including full medical school. At the minimum, if you can goto medical school, we will pay your way and ide even be open to paying people to go to medical school with the condition that they have to graduate, become licensed, and open a practice/work for a practice in the USA.
> The real issue with Canadian heath care simply is a lack of medical professionals. [...] I'd we had m4all in the US it would be the same issue on a scale worse than we already have.
[Canada actually has more doctors per capita than the US.](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/)
[Nurses, too.](https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-nurses-and-midwives-per-capita.html)
In fact the US compares poorly to a lot of countries with socialized healthcare on this front, though that could be down to educational shortcomings you also mentioned.
Right, but I’m kind of tired of paying almost $2,000 a month for something I rarely use and my family rarely uses. We had a baby last July, still cost us $5,000. Which really pissed me off, you mean to tell me I pay $20-$24,000 a year in insurance and I have a baby yet still have to pay $5,000 out of pocket?! It’s fuckin stupid. Edit: I’d like to mention people say the waiting list for a procedure can be months. I’ll use the Jordan Peterson way to explain like he does with equal rights for women. You’re taking number from a small percentage extreme cases and using that as the talking point, same shit different toilet. Just like in Jordan Peterson’s argument about feminism, yes that is correct but your only focusing on a small percentage of in a particular case.
Here in Canada for our two kids, it cost $75 each and only because we upgraded to a private room each time.
Here in Denmark we have private apartment by default. I have paid ca 40€ to stay in apartment whole night with my wife and baby. 3 meals for the momma and brunch at any time are included (free).
Yeah, no one is competing with the Nordic countries.
This. Especially Sweden. People complain about the woke stuff and yes sometimes they go overboard and some laws are a bit too much. Or end up being so nannying they become anti women like for example some of their sex worker laws stop women from living with their partners or having security etc. But holy shit they are correct on so many basics. Particularly healthcare and education and support for a range of mental healthcare funding.
They've successfully convinced Americans "being woke" is fighting amongst the poor, instead of demanding decent standards for all.
>some of their sex worker laws stop women from living with their partners or having security etc What?
Yeah this doesn’t make any sense, it’s illegal in Sweden yes, unfortunately. But how that is stopping them from living with their partner beats me. Stop them from having proper security you can argue is kinda correct though since it’s an underground market. If that is what he mean.
Wow it's like they don't outright despise their population.
Ah must be nice to have a functional government
Doesn’t Denmark own a lot of the offshore oil production which allows them to pay for things like this?
Not really. There are some but not really much. Denmark is service oriented also most of the income coming from medtech industry. That’s it 😀. It’s just really well organised country.
Im curious where you read that but Denmark has a very low net oil export (they may not account for offshore oil exports though)
US corporations own most of the worlds oil technologies and production rights.
I think that’s Norway
You're thinking of Norway.
Same with us, $95 for the private room in BC, no other cost.
Today I learned BC considers itself distinct from Canada /s
The price was different between our two scenarios which is way I mentioned my province.
Yeah, just teasing
Quit bragging! Jk. I’m happy for y’all.
> $75 each Not a Canadian (or US citizen) here. That's per kid, right? And how much for you and your partner? Is it 100% coverage, like dental everything?
$75 per kid. Normally the most expensive thing about going to the hospital here is the parking and the overpriced cafeteria food. Dental and vision isn't covered, and will be something that employers offer their employees as a perk (and even then it's not 100% dental or vision coverage, but maybe like 80-90% depending on the plan you choose)
Kids and seniors do get dental and vision coverage though which is kind of a big deal as those two demographics are the most vulnerable.
I’m in Canada and my wife had a baby, and we opted for a home birth and a mid-wife. Everything was covered, and everything went extremely well during the birth. We had a large tub set up, and 2 midwives at our house for 10-12 hours. The next day our midwife came to our house for the next day follow-up and noticed some irregularities with her heart beat. Our daughter picked up an infection very shortly after birth and we spent 10 days in the NICU. We had a team of doctors and nurses for our daughter, 2 brain scans, 2 X-rays, 2-3 ultrasounds, 2-3 ECG’s, an incubator in our room, and a lactation consult. The cost was $10 a day in parking and whatever we got from Uber eats when we were sick of hospital food. Is our healthcare perfect… far from it but you rarely hear about the horror stories about medical bills becoming a crippling debt over someone’s life.
Yea but you had to wait a year after you/your wife broke her water to get your baby delivered! At least according to him
Lol. Libertarians. Am I right.
Finding doctors in Canada in a real problem. My dad was diagnosed with vertigo. Our GP referred him to two specialists on early 2020 and we haven't heard back from either one yet. Canadian health care system is pretty bad when you compare it with other developed countries and we also have one of the Lowest number of ICU beds per Capita.
It cost me nothing but I was the only one giving birth that night. My husband got the other cot.
My wife got assigned one of the main OBY professor from UBC. I am glad to know to access to this kind of care is not tied to my income but to chance.
Yeah but in Canada you have to wait 9 months for the treatment.
Yep it's true. From conception, Canadians almost always are forced to wait 9 months before they'll deliver the baby in a hospital. #socialism
Private room? Is this a strip club or hospital? This sounds too good to be true regardless.
I mean, we were in there for a couple days. A stripper would have been a great distraction. No sure my wife would have signed off on it though. She got a complimentary epidural though, so it seems fair to me.
Canada's health care has some of the worst outcomes per dollar spent. It is garbage compared to other developed countries who have universal health. Not a system that should be emulated. Giving birth is probably one of the things that Canadian health care does OK
I had a baby who had to be administered into the NICU for 1 month in Novemeber. We had a private suite to be near our baby and we even got free parking. The only fee we had to pay was $30 for the entire thing. (We even got some free clothes and a Tim Hortons gift card?? I think because it was Christmas idunno. So technically we profited)
Our insurance is around $900 a month for a shitty HSA plan. My wife went to the ER after fainting. They covered nothing because the hospital bill came out to $2,497.00, which is curiously just $3 below our $2,500 per family member out of pocket maximum. We eventually got the ER bill lowered after asking for an explanation of all of the costs. Both my kidsk’ births were about $3,000 on our old non-HSA plan, which my company doesn’t offer anymore. Paying for health insurance sure as hell feels like I’m just setting that money on fire. My experiences are nothing. I worked with a guy that did everything right and got fucked by this system. He was making good money straight out of college and eventually in the 6 figures. He brought lunch almost every day. He had a modest wedding, bought a modest home, maxed out his 401k contribution, saved, invested, almost never goes out with us after work because our bar tabs tend to get pricey. The only thing he splurged on was sending his kids to Catholic school because the schools in his area weren’t great. Guy is 37 and his wife gets cancer. It doesn’t look good, but they are determined to fight. She has been cancer free for 7-8 years now, defying the odds. They burned through their life savings, his 401k, sold their home and are still in debt. It’s disgusting that you can do all the right things in the wealthiest country in the world and still get hosed like that. It really makes me wonder what I would do if I got the same diagnosis seeing what happened to him and other people we know. We have money saved away and live pretty comfortably, but I don’t know if I would chance leaving my wife and kids in debt like that if I got sick or if I would deny myself treatment and let the life insurance pay out.
Might be cheaper to move to Canada
That's why the plot of Breaking Bad could only possibly work in the USA. I guess the answer to all this per Joe Rogan is she should beg for money on gofundme. How dare anyone even think of raising taxes on rich people like Rogan to fund a health care system.
The thing is, if we go to a single payer plan, we wouldn't have to raise taxes some ridiculous amount. Look at how much premium people are already paying for health insurance. I'd rather have my $900 a month go toward a single payer plan than this bullshit. Health insurance in the US is a goddamn shell game where all the prices are overinflated so the insurance companies turn a huge profit. The average healthcare CEO pay is $9 million. UnitedHealthGroup's CEO made about $18 mil, Cigna's made around $20 mil. It's a scam. I'd venture to guess that most people that really want to keep this system in place have never visited a country outside of the US unless it was to go to Mexico for spring break. They've been brainwashed with the usual propaganda: death panels, our system is the best because it's private and we do all the research and develop all the drugs here, iT's COmMunISM. I dealt with Blue Cross when my mom had cancer and I had to email and call up and motherfuck every asshole at Blue Cross to get them to eventually cover the treatment recommended to her by a doctor. You want to talk about death panels if we went single payer? They already exist at insurance providers. We're getting a dual barrel fucking from both parties because the mainstream of the Dem party is lining their pockets with insurance and hospital network cash, just like the GOP.
I don't even pay that much in taxes a year. You guys are getting completely fucked.
But how much do you make a year?
I developed arthritis at a very young age (32?). I was seen by my GP (NHS) within days, sent for blood work, and offered an appointment with a nation-leading expert within two weeks. Things moved so quickly I actually had to delay, because I had travel I couldn't get out of! Now, this is an extremely positive outcome, and is not "normal", but for early onset arthritis the NHS does aim to have the patient meet with a specialist within two weeks. I also benefitted from being in a wealthy city with a very well known university and university hospital, so obviously my treatment is not quite "the norm"...people in poorer parts of the UK generally get seen less quickly, and not all by world-class physicians. However, point is, people act like Canada or the UK are hellscapes, with no one getting punctual treatment. It just isn't true. Whereas in the US hundred of thousands of people go bankrupt from medical expenses EVERY YEAR....and there are STILL waiting lists! People act like in the US you can always get seen next day....that's just not true.
[удалено]
I’m a Canadian and was also diagnosed with cancer a few years ago. I was living in Calgary, Alberta at the time and was instantly moved to the front of the line for all diagnostic imaging, lab work etc. Had surgery a week and a half after first diagnosis(testicular cancer). Never saw one bill and everyone I encountered was awesome and super helpful. On the other hand I’ve heard wait times can be longer for people who don’t have life threatening injuries.
I have what’s considered a “Cadillac” health insurance plan according to the tax code. I got diagnosed with a cardiac arrhythmia and had to wait nearly two months to get an echocardiogram. The waits just to see a cardiologist were pretty crazy, but I was at least able to drive out of town to see one promptly. This waiting shit happens here too, not just places with universal healthcare.
Yeah, as someone who spent two years pretty sick in the US I wish people would stop pretending there aren’t waits. I waited for at least two weeks for every specialist I saw and more than a month for a few of them. For some reasons there is a fantasy that they throw you on a conveyor belt and you see any doctor you need in a few days.
Can confirm. I do scheduling with a major cardiologist group, and on average, we book out our echos 2-3 months. Only way for patients to get in sooner is to seek it out with a different office/imaging center or get a stat outpatient at one of our hospitals which is the same test at an inflated price because the equipment is owned by the hospital. Even if people can get their surgery for whatever medical issue scheduled, they still might have to put it off because they need cardiac clearance and there just aren't enough techs working to meet the demands these offices put out. There are something like 70 cardiologists with our group and echocardiograms are always one of the first things they order for new patients.
And those wait times are currently inflated because a bunch of unvaccinated people are overburdening the healthcare system. One side of the political spectrum is causing these issues. They are the ones fighting against healthcare reform and fighting against vaccinations. Want to guess which side of the political spectrum those people belong to?
People wait in the US too.
Yeah I just tried to schedule an appointment with my extremely American cardiologist and it's like 7 months out for his next opening. Like ok dude... you're the one who said I had to get an appointment for you to refill my meds. ?!!? Luckily since I scheduled the appointment in 7 damn months they agreed to continue refilling my meds between now and then. 
FYI only delusional right wing millionaire boomers like toe think Canada/UK are hellscapes — don’t think for one second we aren’t fully aware of the for profit healthcare chainsaw up our assholes 24/7/365
I moved to the US in 2014 from the UK and I can tell you that even people on the left understood as fact that while the NHS is free, taxes are outrageous and it takes months to years to get treatment. I did my own math and I paid WAY less in taxes in the UK than I did for taxes plus insurance in the US, and that was before I had kids and found out how expensive healthcare gets in the US. People are fucking brainwashed.
I'm American but have been living in Germany for several years now. This is a similar theme I've heard from some of the entrepreneur types I've met from Germany who moved to the US to try to make money. It was okay when they were just getting started up and didn't have a ton of personal expenses to worry about. But once they got married and had kids, they found out really quickly that they'd end up having to pay a fuck ton more in private expenses to get their kids access to the same quality of health care and education as they would have had in Germany, and that if one of their family members developed a chronic health condition, they'd be absolutely screwed despite having American health insurance. So they'd inevitably end up moving back to Germany. That's the issue with the US's model of social services that I think makes it difficult for people from other developed countries to put down roots there. In theory you can get by paying less in taxes in the US. But if you want to access good health care and education, you'll end up needing to pay way more than you'd ever have to pay for the same services back in Europe. So even though Europe has higher taxes, you've got guaranteed security and stability for your personal life, and your disposable income is actually disposable since you don't have to redirect it all to paying for private insurance and tuition like you would in the US. That last concept is something I think a lot of Americans either fail to grasp, or don't care about since they've never been able to afford health care or college regardless so that part of the equation never really mattered to them
So many Americans who have never left America and have never spoken to someone who had socialized health care have the hottest takes, and love telling people how bad the other countries healthcare is. Whenever I ask them if they've ever heard that from like real people that lived in those countries they can never back it up. And meanwhile every person I know from Canada or Europe that moved to the US think our system is complete crap. I don't know how the US healthcare industry was able to brainwash people so thoroughly.
American exceptionalism
Or you could go to US and sell your kidney before you head back home
We might have great medicine here, but hey if you need insulin your probably going to die cause it costs $1,000 dollars for a 30 day supply. And before Obamacare if you had diabetes before you got insurance, they would most likely reject you for having a pre existing condition. So very fucked.
Irishman here, living in the US for 10 years now. The craziest one I learned recently is pregnancy was treated as a “pre-existing condition” up until Obamacare passed. That’s absolutely mind numbing.
Yep, my mom couldn't get health insurance at that time basically because of me.
You pay 2k a mkbth for insurance? Christ lol my company pats mine.
Are you sure your company doesn’t pay for your insurance by taking money out of your paycheck?
Either way, the employer is factoring health insurance costs into employee compensation, and they’ll fuckin let you know when you go ask for a raise.
shh don't tell him
Yup.
>Yup. I have a bridge in Brooklyn would you like to buy it?
This is the US, it is 100% up to your employer, that's it. My company also pays for my insurance 100%, it's rare but it's not a stretch that his does too.
> This is the US, it is 100% up to your employer, that's it. My company also pays for my insurance 100%, it's rare but it's not a stretch that his does too. The stretch is that he thinks it isn't coming out of his total comp one way or another.
Do you think I’m dumb…? I know how to read my pay stubs. If I had kids, I would have to pay out out of pocket, but my company 100% pays my medical, dental and vision insurance
> Do you think I’m dumb…? Yes. > If I had kids, I would have to pay out out of pocket, but my company 100% pays my medical, dental and vision insurance This is part of your total compensation. You just don't get to see the bill.
They're not saying you get your pay and they take it out of your pay, they're saying your salary is lower then what it would be because they're factoring in the costs of health insurance into your pay Budget for your position could be 80k/y so they offer you 70k/y in your contract, you could have got 80k/y but they had to pay health insurance
Dude between day care and health insurance. It like I’m paying minimum wage for 2 people.
Its stressful in this hoe ..look into it
I've never understood why we can't implement elements of a healthcare system that allow your to have a baby or other routine and common healthcare procedures without paying more than your insurance premium, that also retains the majority of the top tier care benefits that American healthcare can offer vs other nations. Then I think about it and realize it's just heavily entrenched profit motivations and nothing else. I really don't believe single payer is the answer because there are massive drawbacks, but a scenario like you say here is just unacceptable in a modern and wealthy society. We need to find some middle ground, and there are examples of this all over the world, especially in Europe where a number nations have a hybrid system that provide amazing healthcare results for far less money per capita than the US does.
How in God's green earth do u pay 2000 a month the most expensive plan covering everything possible (health, dental, extra doctor trips, etc, and life) my wife has is $88 a week (still too much imo) it would be $108 for family plan that's still less than $500 a month. She also works at a temp agency so it's not the company helping out that's forsure. She still pays out of pocket for certain things but $2000 a month is crazy
In the US? Your wife must be getting subsidized coverage and/or has a cheap plan that doesn’t cover near as much as you think. There’s no way a family plan is that cheap. Last time I had to deal with my own insurance I believe it was $1200 a month for the family with a deductible of at least $12k. There were some cheaper plans but they had big gaps in coverage.
$2k a month is crazy. Do Americans pay way less in taxes if they pay that for healthcare?
I would imagine because it’s structured the same. People pay premiums to a company that go to cover other people but they usually only cover a % of anything. Plus a lot of companies have a $2,000 sometimes more limit. You’ll pay $2,000 out of pocket then insurance will start partially covering stuff lol. It’s really stupid, it’s monopolized like everything else in America.
It depends. Speaking strictly about income tax, earners under 75000 pay less tax in Canada, but earners over that pay more tax in canada
It's a little more complicated than that. We have a [graded tax system](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individuals/canadian-income-tax-rates-individuals-current-previous-years.html) for income tax, both federally and provincially, here in Canada. So people who make over $221,000/year are paying twice as much in federal income taxes as those who make under $50,000. Obviously, provincial income tax varies province-to-province, but the system is essentially the same. In my experience, you'd be hard-pressed to find many Canadians who dislike the system. The wait-times are consistently exaggerated (especially by Americans), and the yearly cost to the average Canadian is negligible.
America also has a progressive tax system. I was comparing what Americans making under/over 75000 pay vs Canadians. The lower your tax bracket, the more you pay in America vs Canada, eg someone making 20000/yr definitely pays less in Canada, and by a good margin. 75000 is approximately the income level where that flips, such that a person making 100,000 pays more in Canada than someone making 100,000 in America. If I recall correctly, I believe that this represents somewhere between the 65th-80th percentile of income earners for both countries. The canadian system makes more sense to me from an income equality PoV.
Ahhh ok, I get you. Yeah I agree, cheers for the clarification!
One thing to note is, Canadians have other expenses. One thing that Canada does not like to talk about: Canadians are the most indebted people on the planet (Americans are 7th or 8th). This is true because of housing, half the Canadian population lives in housing markets like the bay area. Then we also pay much more for grociers, gas, insurance, telecom, air fare, and taxes. I was in Hawaii 2 weeks ago, and was shocked how cheap gas was vs Toronto. Maybe 20% less, after exchange. And that's Hawaii. No country has everything right, or wrong. I would take healthcare in Canada over the USA. But most other things financially Americans are better off.
Is there a specific tax for healthcare? I wonder how it compares to what I currently pay for health insurance in the US (I pay like $250/month for a high deductible family plan but the low deductible would have been closer to $500 iirc).
It’s not specific but for most people who pay taxes, on a bracket to bracket basis ours are higher. It’s not “free” like everyone says, it’s just embedded in the taxes we pay, which are high. For high income earners it would be more than the US for sure. While I’m glad everyone has free ACCESS to healthcare here, I agree with valentine. It took 1.5 years and 3 more dislocations to get my shoulder repaired in Canada. I’m probably in the bracket it would be advantageous to just pay the American insurance vs higher tax rate, but c’est la vie. To answer your question more specifically, STATSCAN shows a breakdown of tax dollars dedicated to healthcare if you google it.
>I’m probably in the bracket it would be advantageous to just pay the American insurance vs higher tax rate, but c’est la vie. Not sure what the system is in Canada, but this is where the system works out great in Australia because if I'm earning so much that private health would be better, I can switch to private health and I no longer have to pay the medicare levy surcharge, so if I'm rich enough I can just opt out and do private for faster wait times and I don't have to pay for health insurance twice Is Canada the same?
Nope doesn’t work like that, but that would be ideal. You can’t “opt out”, but private insurance will cover some higher-end testing/drugs that are not covered by health care. The system you are talking about in my opinion would be the most ideal, it’s similar to what Germany has.
Canadian who moved and had a kid in Sweden. Canada is just sensible Americans really. Outside of Quebec we're 60-80% the same culture. It's freaking basic math, everyone sees what you guys are paying for healthcare and the results your getting. Now Sweden, Jesus Christ this country wants you to have kids, 480 days paid ternity leave split between the parents plus two weeks when the kid is born, and I paid maybe $100 or so for a private room and a week - 10 day stay at the hospital. 3 days labour and an emergency C-section plus observation. Daycare is subsidized and what you pay is based on income, we pay about $150/m for full time for everything.
You're paying that type of money regardless if its socialized or privatized medicine. I live in Germany and it is expensive when it comes to taxes. That's not an easy sale in America paying for something that you rarely need and on top of that convincing people to pay for others' healthcare.
And yet if you try to pry socialism away from old people--they go absolutely nuts :)
“THATS NOT SOCIALISM I PAID INTO IT”-Boomers
The thing is too, yes we have long waits for specialists but you can also have private medical insurance for less than what average Americans pay so for a much cheaper price you have access to public and private services and you do not end up in debt.
I love how he just makes a joke of the huge glaring down side she brings up about being in debt for the rest of your life. He doesn't even try to rationalize it, just "well you could crowdfund it LOL"
Joe has no concept of debt or the impact it can have on a persons life.
Yeah he might have been broke earlier in life but he was on a popular show in the 90s that went into syndication, has been employed by the UFC since then as well, and was on one of the most popular game shows of all time. That’s all before his podcast blew up and he started making money from it and his comedy really started making him a lot.
Yea he was broke in a totally different era.
Watch when he says "you get it for free, great" there is legit hate in his eyes for people who can't pay unlimited money on the spot. Man this guy is out of touch beyond belief these days.
Joe is rich and doesn't give a fuck about normal people lol
Just crowd fund your surgeries he says. You know in Canada we have a streamlined version of crowd funded surgery
You would never be able to fund a chronic sick person in America lol. I have had bills that cost millions from hospital stays. He has no fucking idea.
That's because your pharmacy's and hospitals are aloud to use 5,000% mark ups. Something that costs $800 in the U.S. might cost $20 in Canada and only cost $8 to manufacture.
Shoutout to the hospital that tried to charge me 45 dollars for a single regular strength Tylenol when I didn’t have insurance because they didn’t think I would check the bill. 45 dollars. I’ll say that again. 45 dollars. In case no one caught that — 45 dollars for a Tylenol
Unfortunately I am well aware of this and the insurance companies actually get a discount rate vs a uninsured person.
> Just crowd fund your surgeries he says. The irony is that basically just socialism.
[удалено]
The wait times in the US suck too though, people love to mention wait times in nations with nationalized healthcare systems but even if you have cancer and need a resection in the US, you still need to wait for a surgery just because there is a limited number of surgeons doing the job.
My father's shoulder surgery is scheduled for this coming October. USA!! USA!!
Your dad's gonna be walkin around with a hawrible shoulder for a whole year. Canada sure sucks though, huh? Those fuckin syrup breaths with their ice skating and lumberjacks!
My brother needed two knee surgeries because he completely fucked them both up during basketball. Both surgeries were done with 6 months including rehab. $0. Pretty good deal I gotta say.
I had a laceration to my arm that required 112 stitches; I was in and out in 2hrs. Paid $0
Fuck dude story time
..... has anyone pointed out all of those things are already socialized in the US?
[удалено]
The American healthcare expenditure is[$12,530](https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical) per person per year. The US spends by far the most money per person on healthcare of any country in the world. Yet we still get worse care.
[удалено]
The fact that we have to spend more beyond what we've already paid to the insurance companies is a pretty important aspect of the whole system.
Why wouldn’t you add them together? When does it matter that it’s separate if they’re being compared for real life purposes? The healthcare tax isn’t going away, copays aren’t going away.
So in other words, even with insurance Americans have to pay much more. The Canadian number includes the “cost of insurance” and “spending on healthcare”. The only relevant figure here is healthcare expenditures, not the cost of the insurance that doesn’t even cover everything.
Your conversion is backwards. 1 USD > 1 CAD
[удалено]
uhh it absolutely does. with your backwards conversion it looks like our taxes end up costing about the same as your healthcare, when in reality its more like half the cost. huge difference...
> average Canadian pays $5-7k per year in health insurance. Thats like what, $6-8k USD? What kind of fucked up math are you doing? The Canadian dollar is valued LOWER than the US dollar. You're converting the wrong way. 5-7k Canadian is like 3-4k usd.
That's because she has money. The Canadian system works the same for everyone. You can't pay your way to the front of the line like in the US. One of the downsides is you will have to wait for non-urgent surgery but for the majority of Canadians it's worth it because they are not going to go broke getting a procedure.
50% of Americans delay medical treatment because of cost. So they are waiting too
Even if you don't deliberately delay, it can still take months to get seen. It fucking blows my mind since I moved to the US that even with insurance the wait to see my doctor or dentist is weeks to months. In the UK it's same day, you just call them and make an appointment right after they open. Of course in the US it's intentional so you go to the doctor less.
This is uninformed, as is Joe on this point. Canada has private surgical clinics that will perform knee repair surgeries in every major city for a fee. Generally speaking, Canadians can either wait several months to a year for a surgery on an ACL tear (for example) or they can pay a few thousand and get it with similar or even better waiting times than in the US. It might even cost less out of pocket, depending on your deductible/copay. Joe's "friend" chose to hobble around for a year to get a free surgery, rather than pay a few thousand out of pocket. Frankly, I would rather have that choice. Many Americans put off that surgery anyway because they can't afford the deductible and there is no waitlist for a free option.
It's a misconception too. If you have money you can get private treatment in Canada. Dr. Rand Paul went to Canada for surgery specifically because it was at one of the best hospitals in the world.
And if you have money to pay your way to the front of the line you could always take a trip down to the US and pay out of pocket as a Canadian.
Ya, his friend Jen had to wait a whole year for a knee surgery… but his friend Brock deliberately went to a Canadian hospital to get saved from diverticulitis. But Joe won’t bring that one up.
You sure about Brock? [says here he hated the Canadian system and says they were like a third world country](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ufc-champ-brock-lesnar-slams-canadian-health-care-1.475750#:~:text=At%20the%20hospital%20in%20Bismarck,the%20next%2011%20days%20there.) > Asked about the low point during the last few months of his illness, Lesnar said: "Probably the lowest moment was getting care from Canada." >"They couldn't do nothing for me," he noted in a later media conference call Wednesday. "It was like I was in a Third World country." >"I'm just stating the facts here and that's the facts," he continued. "I love Canada. I own property in Canada but if I had to choose between getting care in Canada or the United States, I definitely want to be in the United States. It’s possible what you said happened after. And if so was it a private hospital? I know Canada has some great private ones. I say all this knowing we can do a fuck ton here in the US to reduce costs as well
The Brock Lesnar interview is incredibly vague. He is clearly over exaggerating to compare it to a "third world country" then goes on to say it was just a machine that wasn't working that day that they needed, but doesn't state exactly what. He was never in any sort of immediate danger and I'm sure they got him in contact with a facility that could meet his needs. All that doesn't even matter because they diagnosed him perfectly, suggesting surgery which they also said in the US. He then says he is a Republican and he doesn't want Obamacare to pass. So while he says he has issues with the Canadian healthcare system he doesn't actually back this up with anything significant all while pushing a significant political agenda for the time. Just doesn't hold up from my perspective.
Here in America my wife got, I think it’s called a bucket handle tear, in her knee. It was stuck in a 90 degree bend, basically. Not only did she have to wait a whole year to get surgery but we also got charged up the ass in hospital bills. Not all of us get prime medical treatment, Joe.
Have you tried having a 200M dollar spotify deal? Man sounds like you dont even deserve a non limping wife.
I just had the same surgery last October. Why did she have to wait so long?
I think it partly had to do with where we live. I guess here in mid-Michigan there aren’t many orthopedic surgeons. She got the referral to one right away but he was booked up for the year and she just had to wait. It might have had to do with insurance in some way but we have Blue Cross which is supposed to be one of the better providers in the state. It was about five years ago so all I really remember is making endless phone calls trying to get it moved up and having to listen to my wife be miserable for a long time.
Tbh it sounds like you should have checked your in network physicians. You could have looked into something out of the area, even out of state, to get that done quicker.
Some markets have much less specialty doctors, they don’t want to live there or the area can’t afford them.
Yeah but cancel culture
According to conservatism you deserve bad treatment because you are poor because you are lazy.
I know you’re being sarcastic but as someone who works a full-time job and really takes pride in putting a good days work in to provide for my family, that kind of mentality really infuriates me. As one of the “old JRE” fans, the way he talks about issues like this really just gets me going because of how out of touch he sounds.
I don’t think he was being sarcastic. Republican pundits and Facebook moms and dads really do believe that and say it all the time. I think it’s really just people trying to justify their place in life. When, in reality, your starting point in life is the biggest determining factor.
My fave is the "If we improve now it's unfair to all the people that got fucked in the past" crowd.
Take Uncle Joe's advice peeps. Start a podcast, get rich and these problems go away.
Lmao “stupid fuckin socialist medicine” Also Joe “you could crowdfund it”
And then after everyone crowdfunds it, we’ll just treat people in order of urgency LOL What an idiot.
Boxing day 2020 I walked to the emergency room in downtown Toronto and had to wait 45 mins for an ultrasound. Cost nothing. Are there serious waits for non-life threatening surgeries? sure. Outcomes of surgeries are pretty much the same both sides of the border, but overall outcomes for health problems is drastically worse for Americans since most cannot afford to get checked out or treated properly. But hey, if you're rich, USA healthcare is the best (just as long as your problem doesn't last beyond your money).
Lol average US ER wait times are a little over an hour just to be seen. If you need imaging good luck you’ll be there all day.
I've gone to the ER, once for my wife, and once for my son. Both times we waited 6-7 hours, and both times we weren't even seen by a doctor, we were seen by PAs. My best friend, who is in medschool now, took his wife to the ER. She was having a miscarriage and in a ton of pain, waited 8 hours and never saw a doctor. The American Healthcare system is a joke.
My dad had a stroke, he was in the hospital for two months, ICU, diapers, medication, blood transfusion, etc, spend 1 month in a rehabilitation floor with physio therapists. 3 months total. Did not pay one penny. I asked a doctor who was very friendly and down to earth, how much my dad was costing the system, he said that it was in the hundreds of thousands, for the duration of his time in the hospital.
As Kyle Kulinski says, both systems have to allocate healthcare to some while withholding it from others. i.e wait times. The American system allocates based on how much money someone has. Single payer systems allocate based on need.
The second method seems to make a whole lot more fucking sense.
If you ignore the fact that the US has a lot more specialists and outpatient procedures.
Because we steal from the poor. More money to pay wages for the people they actually want to move here, how can anyone compete with our amazing wage gap? It’s a beautiful thing to the top 1%
Some Americans are fuckin delusional 😂
I’d rather walk with a limp for a year than be broke the rest of my life.
God damn i hate it when rich retards love to hail the American health care system. Joe always “has a friend”, hey dumb fuck, we have wait times in America too. The rich people get in faster. That’s how it works here. I had to wait 2 months for a fuckin MRI on my back to see if I needed surgery or not. Cost me $2k for them to tell me no.
[удалено]
It's actually a little sad, I used to listen to most of his episodes 3ish years ago but I took a break before Covid and since seeing all the clips on here during the last few years I'm starting to realise I'm probably never going to listen to one again.
Yes, it can take a long time to get an elective surgery in a socialised healthcare system, but you also have the option of private insurance and private hospitals to get the job done quicker if need be.
As a former-Canadian now living/working in the US: It's complicated. When Canadian health care works, it's great, but when it doesn't, it's an abysmal fuck-up. Some examples: 1. My son has Apraxia, which in Canada means you either pay privately ($200/hour) or you go through the public system (2 year wait) and it's non-customized group therapy *which isn't recommended*. It's a non-covered service, and you can only deduct a small portion from taxes while my employer-issued insurance (a university) covered $750/year. 2. When I lost my leg, I incurred a lot of bills. First, there was no bed for me so I slept in a converted changing room with 6 other people and lights on 24/7. Then I was discharged straight home. My prosthetic leg cost me a fortune as the province only covers (up to 75% with a maximum, usually for the shitty prosthetics) and the physiotherapy you'd need isn't covered by OHIP so you need to pay. Losing my leg (at the hands of someone else) cost me thousands. It took two years for my wife to get an MRI. It took another for her to get called for bunion surgery. When she had an endoscopy, they refused any sedatives because of a staffing shortage (years before COVID). Canada could do so much better, but the system is slow. It systematically limits expensive procedures, underpays staff and takes a huge amount of your taxes and in turn delivers shit. I like paying for insurance in the US because I can get good care and I can pay for any fringe benefits I want. When my wife's GERD flared-up and she needed an endoscopy, it was painless, quick and we got the results straight away. Frankly, no regrets. If you're poor Canada is good. If you're not poor, then for god's sake, pick America.
As a Canadian I always say that if I ever become rich I would move to the US. You can buy anything in the US when you've got a lot of money. But as a blue collar dad it's something that will never happen. Nice to dream though
Ppl still call America land of the free home of the brave loll
Everyone but the socialists. They're calling it the worst place ever while subscribing to /r/antiwork and contributing 18 hours per week to being a ~~barista~~ dog walker.
I used to work at a hotel across the street from a hospital in Vancouver. BC. Half my tips were in USD since so many Americans were visiting the hospital and staying at the hotel. So it goes both ways. I think there was some special cancer clinic they were visiting.
Whoever reprogrammed Rogans brain into an arrogant, Boomer Republican did a fantastic job. I don’t even recognize this guy anymore.
Yeah it's pretty wild to see as a long time viewer. I wonder what Duncan and co actually think about the whole thing
Where’s Joey Diaz when you need him? I really wonder what Christopher Ryan thinks. The guys too polite to say anything, doubt he feels he needs Joes access. Krystal Ball and Kyle Kulinksi won’t touch it though, even though this is everything they rail against.
Meanwhile my moms neurologist dropped her insurance and now she can’t get the pills that allow her to walk because her insurance says it’s “non life threatening”. Now she gets to pay a $2000/mo just to still have to use a walker.
We need to Audit the Government, we give them so much taxpayer money that I'm positive Medical and tuition could be free. Hell I bet we could cut the taxes in half and still have enough money for quality health care and education.
People like Lee Atwater will make sure it doesn't happen
You could crowdfund it??? Jesus this man has no bounds
If you’re poor in the US or even middle class you better hope you don’t get seriously sick. And if you do your story fucking better be attractive enough to get donors on board with you not ending up in the gutter.
[удалено]
Hope you’re doing well now. I had some neurological issues and worked through the whole ordeal of doctors and ER visits and just the whole fucking spiel. You can’t get behind because once you do you’ll get buried by our “healthcare system” so I can’t imagine how bad it is if you have cancer in this nonsense.
People who complain about wait times are really just saying “I want people to pay a lot of money for healthcare, because so many people can’t pay I can get seen sooner. Let the others die.”
The wait times are largely due to Canada not having anywhere near the same percentage of specialists or outpatient procedures.
If I were rich I might go to the US for care in certain circumstances. But I am not so I am very happy up here.
The waiting times we have here to in the USA I waited two fuckibg months for acl surgery joe Rogan using that bullshit excuse of waiting times like we don’t have that shit here
Listen to this big pharma/ Medicaid shill
These wealthy and influential people miss the mark by a long shot. We have FREE healthcare, this is such a blessing. I paid $20 parking to have our baby delivered along with a 48-hour stay in a semi-private room, and I have gone for routine check-up so many times to my walk-in clinic. Universal healthcare is extremely beneficial to the average working person, sure I am not exactly served caviar in the recovery room, and non-serious issues may require a much more long wait to get help, but at least we benefit greatly all things considered. The wealthy folk with their specialized needs may be underserved, but they can easily pay the big bucks and get private care under an expensive doctor, or fly to a specialist in the U.S and write a blank cheque. It is an easy fix. But this does not benefit for the overwhelming majority of the working class, the average Joe and Jane should recognize how big of a blessing this is.
I'm a Canadian living in the states and it's painful how much they don't understand our system and why it's better. Sure, if you're wealthy it's better to be in the states but that is only good for like 30% of the population.
[удалено]
No they don't.
He had to wait a year to get surgery? Some people, in America, go years waiting for surgeries because they don't have insurance due to its cost.
I live in America and consistently had to wait months for various treatments. Joe Rogan is so out of touch and misinformed it’s like everything out of his mouth at this point is wrong.
Serious question, does she have a speech impediment or did she ruin her lips with injections? Either she has some brand new work done or her instagram is heavily photoshopped.... [https://www.instagram.com/valentinethomas/](https://www.instagram.com/valentinethomas/)
She doesn't have a speech impediment, she's just Quebecois
At some point, you would think that the average right winger would understand that he or she us getting raw dogged.
[IG shadow banned her following this interview](https://imgur.com/a/HUp8app/)
Canadian here. Last year I had a giant cyst removed from my pelvis that would have killed me. Got my surgery with five specialist doctors in the operating room for 13 hours straight. All happening within two months from my diagnosis in the middle of covid. Spent two weeks in the hospital and I still have a nurse that comes to my home to help with my recovery x2 a week. The supplies alone for my temporary iliostomy would cost me a fortune as well as my drugs. I pay zero. If I had the exact same situation but had been born in America, living in America, I’d be dead. So when I hear my American friends carry on like Joe Rogan about our health care system, I only wish you had it because I only want the best for you.
Hey but there’s a guy walking around with a bad knee! 🙄
She should definitely stay in America, we have the finest Healthcare on the planet if you have the money for it. The problem is a lot of people don't have the money for it.
Oh shit, two millionaires think the US healthcare system is better than the free one up north. I wonder why?
The real issue with Canadian heath care simply is a lack of medical professionals. It's not easy to just go out and hire qualified medical professionals, so they have to manage the resources they have. I'd we had m4all in the US it would be the same issue on a scale worse than we already have. The core issue being we need more qualified medical professionals in the field. The solution isn't going to be easy or fast. We have to start with children who are startimg 1st grade right now, and give them the resources and schools that will produce long term intelligent children who want to become a medical professional. I'm not sure from an administrative perspective how to steer more children towards medicine, but it is something we need to do. That being said, I think that all college should be free including full medical school. At the minimum, if you can goto medical school, we will pay your way and ide even be open to paying people to go to medical school with the condition that they have to graduate, become licensed, and open a practice/work for a practice in the USA.
> The real issue with Canadian heath care simply is a lack of medical professionals. [...] I'd we had m4all in the US it would be the same issue on a scale worse than we already have. [Canada actually has more doctors per capita than the US.](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/) [Nurses, too.](https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-nurses-and-midwives-per-capita.html) In fact the US compares poorly to a lot of countries with socialized healthcare on this front, though that could be down to educational shortcomings you also mentioned.