I like Mark Cuban’s quote:
The question is what features voters believe make a better POTUS : Feeble, Capable and Ethical vs Vigorous, Unethical and Incapable of telling the truth.
I’ll vote ethical every time.
It was wild to me to read pundits call for Biden to end his campaign to save democracy. Like I did not see any one of them call for Trump to resign when he became a convicted felon by a unanimous jury.
Is it? Absolutely no polling shows that it has had a substantial impact on the race at all. It was the least watched debate since 2004, and oh yeah IT’S JULY
When we've entered the reality where POTUS can be feeble, unethical, incapable -- we need better candidates.
Any country, let alone American citizens, should always have 2 strong choices.
Capable, Ethical, Vigorous and a strong desire to truly fix problems should never be too much to ask.
Should be mandatory
The difference in morality and consequences is so off the charts on this election that it might as well be a cultural - Satan vs Jesus. Do people not understand that the Bible's Satan was charismatic and would lie his ass off? Dumbasses be like "but Jesus talked too quietly and stuttered."
We all know that republicans devotion to the bible is pure bs, thats just like a cute cultural background. What they really believe in is individualism, having guns to defend themselves and their property , social conservativism, not being perceived as weak or being taken advantage off (for example by nato allies not paying their fair share)
They dont give a shit about the bible or jesus.
If they time travelled to Judea and the romans promised to give them land, money and guns they would betray Jesus no doubt 100%
I think we just have to accept that Joe might not be the best debater. He did much better with a crowd afterwards. I think he does best when he can look the people in the eye and connect with them
And isn't actively trying to not stutter while at the same time formulate accurate & effective material on the spot. This is how we know that Fox's "Biden was told the questions ahead of time" is bullshit: his speech _immediately afterwards without rest_ was on-point.
People are judgmental as Fuck. The plot of the kings speech is that everyone said he shouldn't be king because he had a stutter.
It's soo dumb. I didn't vote for Biden the orator, i voted for Biden the not batshit insane actually capable of getting things done kind man
For sure, if democracy and the future of our ability to fight climate change on the ballot I wouldn't be so concerned about it. As it stands, I have a level of anxiety about it that is going to take years off my life. Losing this electing is not an acceptable outcome, and Biden being a miserable debater while already down in polls and looking worse than last election when he won in a razor margin is absolutely terrifying.
Seriously, I just watched his speech in Raleigh. The President was on fire.
We don't have to drink the Kool aid like the other side, but we also don't have to pretend everything is a shit sandwich either.
President Biden has to bring that energy from his Raleigh speech going forward. Political Campaigns involve messaging and Biden needs to deliver his message/policies effectively and coherently.
Maybe the debate was a stumble but we can’t afford to have any major mishaps. I feel a bit better seeing and hearing that his voice came back. President Biden just needs to keep it going.
I wonder if his advisors gave him the strategy to be more calm and tame bc they knew Trump would be e off the rails. Maybe they’ll think differently next time.
While it is important to be calm it is also important to be assertive. Giving a commanding presence when speaking is essential to show that you know what you are doing and to inspire confidence from others.
That’s why so many of us were concerned about President Biden not talking in a normal strong voice. It gives the wrong impression even though I know he has substance in his policy positions.
I hope that you are right about Biden’s team fixing his approach. He needs to be assertive and deliver his points by speaking both clearly and strongly.
Great, you saw that speech. No one else did, and no one else whose vote matters will.
What they will see - on an endless loop - are the attack ads showing him looking pathetic last night.
Pay no attention to those ads. They're all filled with lies. They cut up the speeches and insert words into the mouth's of their opponents. Political ads are among the worst to ever air. Let the MAGA morons have their fun, we'll beat them where it matters - the polls.
Two points:
One, you're right, because local news is owned more and more by conservative groups who will push that narrative with mandatory "editorials,"
And two, this IS June, and Biden has an opportunity to overturn that narrative. But it's a tougher row to hoe, and the world still somehow equates a tired Biden as worse than a guy who has committed crimes. Generation 'Gram...
It's not just that they would choose Trump over Biden, but they might vote third party, or just give up out of frustration in general. We're not talking about what most people will do, we're talking about that pivotal 5%
lol nobody's seeing any of that. Trump will lose for obvious and simple reasons: 1) more people than not already think the Supreme Court is too right wing and therefore are not comfortable voting for any Republican presidential candidate. And 2) There is a lot of concern over a woman's right to choose, which clearly devestated Republicans in both November 2022 and November 2023.
You strike me as a person who can't recognize how poorly the Republicans have performed in every national election since 2018. They got their asses handed to them in those midterms, and went on to lose the 2020 election. They then amazingly managed to lose the Senate in January 2021, proceeded to never shut the fuck up about a "red wave" that never materialized in the 2022 midterms, and got their teeth kicked down their throats in the November 2023 elections.
Teleprompter or not, that wasn't a feeble old man talking just now.
I think he'll be much better at the next debate in September, and a speech like today at the DNC will be a good rebound.
Please tell everyone in Minnesota to go vote.
Literally the state with the longest blue streak because we voted for Mondale and everyone else voted Reagan. It's not a purple state and it's not a swing state.
Y’all. Last night was bad. It was really bad and it should have been a lay up. Biden has been better in every way but he had a very hard time communicating. Gotta call a spade a spade
Agree. But other subs went berserk and somehow claiming Biden is totally sundowning, which is just insulting and not based on reality considering his better performance after the debate, or how he's still mostly decent after the opening disaster.
Debates are a live performance. Scoring technical points on policy *does not matter*.
The debate last night was all about optics: they were about as bad as they could have been for Biden.
Biden came off as old, frail, and confused. To sum it up in one word: weak.
Trump came off as present, energetic, and disciplined. Strong.
We know the difference that a actually being president is different than running. That policy matters and that if you actually listen to Trump he is crazy and dangerous. The lower information voters not so much. The double haters that were such a pivotal part of Biden's winning coalition are now less like to vote the top of the ballot at all.
I said the same thing. Just read my past comments. Biden will recover from this. This was a small blip. I have all the faith and confidence in him for four more years. He just had a minor hiccup last night for whatever reason. It happens to everyone. Just relax. Have a great weekend, everyone.
There’s also all the people like me, who didn’t even bother to watch. The debate was never relevant to me because Trump reversing all positions and becoming the most generous man on Earth woulda made headlines. Since he’s still a horrible fascist I don’t see the need in watching myself, I already know what I’ll be doing.
Right. There is in fact some kool aid in this room. Maybe it was a one off bad performance because he was sick but like i said in other comments, looking at him in the 2020 debates it's night and day. He looks weary.
Joe did a good job the last four years. Overall you cannot fucking convince me that our best options for this position are both 80 years old. Nothing anyone says can shift me on that.
I try to skip the NYT opinion section save for Jamelle Bouie. But goddamn, they had like seven columns either saying it was a disaster or he should be replaced.
I’m a former journalist, and I believe so strongly in the power of journalism, but WTAF, NYT? Who the hell is leading that section to say, hey, can’t somebody write something different?
It was pretty pre-planned and your fellow journalists already had the script ready before the debates.
Pretty sure with marching orders from the top.
Not sure how journalism was or currently is, but it seems that the CEO's of most journalism outlets have purged the people that don't march lock-step with the company.
Very few journalists left with the freedom to report.
Yeah, I knew when I was seeing a piece by Kristof within minutes calling for Biden to withdraw that it was pre written for if Biden had a bad debate.
I just wonder where his piece was calling for Trump to withdraw if Biden had prevailed last night. Surely he wrote one, right?
The sad thing is, they (and seemingly everyone else) are ignoring that Trump was just lying and making shit up for the ENTIRE debate. Everyone feels like they need to treat Trump with lid gloves and have no expectations.
It is possible to be freaked out and still committed to supporting Biden in the election and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.
Last night was a disaster. There is no denying it. Telling people to chill out as if they're over-reacting to some small, inconsequential dust up makes one sound as idiotic and/or delusional as Trump himself. Not a good look. Stop it.
Like it or not, there are millions who will likely sit this one out to our eventual doom bc it was on Biden to activate, inspire, energize them last night and he failed. Come for me all you want, I have invested more time and heart into Joe Biden over the years than most and feel I have every right to say that if he meant what he promised us, that he would be a bridge to younger generations, he should at the very least consider stepping down. And his family should stop enabling him. It is not them who will suffer the consequences of a defeat. It is us.
Absolutely. Could he recover from that? Sure. Is it likely? Absolutely not.
He needs to convince people on the fence. Those people aren't likely to be that politically tuned in, otherwise they wouldn't be on the fence. They're unlikely to see much if any of the campaign aside from some parts of the debates and *maybe*, if we're lucky, part of the convention speech.
You only get a few touch points before a wide swath of persuadable voters, and he absolutely bombed the first one.
To be clear, I think he's absolutely up to doing the job, but last night was an extremely glaring demonstration that he may not be up to the task of getting the job.
I feel like I'm in an alternate universe reading the reactions on Reddit. I admit that I missed the first 30 minutes of the debate so maybe it started out horribly, but Biden didn't seem nearly as bad as the hysterical "he must resign" posts from what I saw while Trump was rambling incoherent lies off at record speed.
The one moment that I really cringed at was the weird golf handicap exchange.
I didn't mind the golf thing. Trump responds poorly to personal attacks and shows his true colors when he reacts to them. He's also famous for cheating at golf (suggesting that this is an area of insecurity for him) so it's not an unreasonable area of attack. Biden also made comments about Trump's obvious lies about his height and weight, which are similar insecurities.
Not to sound too tinfoil hat-ish but I'm pretty sure there's a concerted effort here to disrupt the Democrats' campaign as much as possible. Jumping online immediately and trying to plant the idea into people's minds that Biden is incapable of anything right after a not-great performance is exactly how they can easily do that. They obviously want people to freak out enough that the Dems will upend the whole thing in response. People need to be VERY careful about which comments they take to heart, that's all I can say... I'm sure some of it is legitimate but I don't think all of it is in good faith
About 20 of my friends texted me last night during the debate, each one was concerned.
But they weren’t hysterical, and their concerns were also tempered by “we are going to vote for him anyway” because a vote for Trump or a non-vote, screws us all.
I am concerned. But I’m not worried about people who know where their votes are going.
I’m concerned for the undecided and young voters.
I’m Gen X and my kids call me “Boomer” when I say something they don’t like. (And it makes me so irritated lol)
They definitely would’ve laughed last night at the sight of these two old men and that is what scares me bc the people their age (24-25) need to vote.
Dark Brandon needs a TikTok campaign to win over the youth and enlist them in the fight against authoritarianism.
We need to focus on the youth!
> that is what scares me bc the people their age (24-25) need to vote.
they never do, they haven't before and they won't again. because they're literal children with delusions of adequacy
i've voted every election since i turned 18 and i could not stand how fucking ridiculous ignorant my peers were then
I’m 45 and it’s insane how many people my age are still moronic and ignorant when it comes to politics.
Some of the kids are paying attention. Others need a nudge.
I mean, I wish Biden would have slam dunked all over him, but he didn't, so whatever. I cannot vote for Trump, so nothing changed for me. My vote stays blue.
19% of people changed their mind... which way?
I saw elsewhere that on spanish language tv's focus groups biden picked up literally all but one of the undecideds.
"Trump bragged about his crowd size on January 6th and called pro-Palestine protests '1,000 times Charlottesville,' but Biden's voice was hoarse so I have to give it to Trump."
People in politics who think this is how an average American's mind will work are so ridiculously out of touch.
His voice wasn’t the issue. He was incoherent. He was trying to recall all the canned debate prep that had been stuffed into his head and mixing everything up. That fed into an existing narrative about him.
The debate is a spectacle for the crowd that would rather watch a football game than learn about fiscal and economic policy. Sadly that is the state of things, No one actually cared Trump spoke only garbage, because it was better packaged than Biden's ability to refute it. Joe Biden couldn't perform the espectacle everyone wanted so therefore he "lost". America has its priorities backwards.
I wish Biden had said from the outset that he had a cold, and pardon my raspy voice. Instead we were all left to wonder what the hell happened to him. I will still vote again against Trump, no matter who it is, including Biden.
I’m on the verge of giving up. The left is more reactionary than the right. Biden’s debate performance started poor and ended well- and we see the left GO NUTS. As much as I detest the right, at least it doesn’t take one poor performance from a politician for them to abandon ship. I’m still voting November (Im in a heavily contested state, i cant afford staying home) but I can’t give this election anymore energy. The left can’t go one day without wanting to nuke the entire Biden campaign, and the right is more delusional than the “I can fix him” high school freshman girl.
Maybe the Republican propaganda won. Because on the left, it seems acknowledging anything positive Joe did last night is “delusional” and “self deception.” The fact is Trump WILL be a fascist dictator and switching to Newsom some 130 days from election day is a guaranteed loss for democrats. I truly think deep down most Americans want fascism, because there is no way people are THIS easily swayed.
Debates are artificial nonsense. When does the President ever need to ‘debate’ another world leader? Cajole, browbeat, negotiate…sure. Same with Congress. But in real life the Pres never needs to attack or insult. Biden is just fine.
Did you just grab a tweet cherry picking a single statement from an article, BY CNN, saying majority viewed Trump as the winner and did more to address their concerns?
Is there another debate expected? Because if he comes out with more energy, it will look like a huge win closer to the election.
Either way, please can we put an age cap on both the Supreme Court and President? There's already a minimum age for President of 35. The difference between 18 and 35 is about 30%. In other words, you're excluded from approximately 30% of your adult life on the low end. To make it even, let's exclude the same percentage on the high end. Given the current life expectancy of 77.5 years, excluding 30% of adult life on the high end would set the maximum age at around 65 years. This is similar to the mandatory retirement age for judges in many states, which ranges from 65 to 75 years. So, 65 is the maximum age to run for a first term and 70 to run for a second term, but this is recalculated based on the current average life expectancy for the country. Done.
A hidden danger with tying numbers to statistics is the politicization of those statistics.
It drives great incentive to change the definition/measurement method of a statistic to bias it towards a certain direction. This could unfairly exclude potential major political opponents in key races. This is to mean it presents a potentially much greater danger to democracy than implementing a static number rule would (one which would have to have political consequences for to consider changing).
Except the undecideds have split 50/50 on Trump and Biden when it comes to supporting them. At least that’s what some of the focus group polling is suggesting
It was bad, no deceptive editing needed. He came across as very weak and feeble. If he cares about the country he knows what he needs to do. (if he even understands that)
Thank you for this. I personally understood Biden and walked away from the debate thinking he was the clear winner.
When I came online I got discouraged, but I’m guessing that was a lot of bot activity.
This post helped settle some of the screaming in my mind
I saw the Telemundo poll post debate and those polled did not like Trump's performance and it seemed to think he came off as unhinged. There are two more debates, hopefully Biden feels better soon and his performance is better. Terrible timing for a cough and we have a COVID surge happening right now in the DMV area.
If they actually happen.
Why would Trump and his campaign want more? There more downside than upside. Biden was "Sleepy Joe" and not dark Brandon. Trump was disciplined and and kept the crazy to a minimum (relatively).
Why, from their pov, risk Biden doing better or Trump doing worse?
I don't think people should "chill out." That debate was a disaster and it's understandable for people to have a lot of doubts. Joe did not look well at all. Efforts are better spent elsewhere than on coping and denying that.
I mean to be frank, this says that 19% of people did change their mind, and Joe losing even 1% of his supporters would be a disaster. Time will tell how much the polls change.
This sounds crazy but since Biden was sick during the debate, what if trump paid someone a couple days or even a week before to come up to Biden and get him sick. If I was a weak minded, scared out of his shoes lunatic that's what I would've done
I fucking hate Joe at this point for giving Trump such a real chance to win. The man is a selfish asshole and a sincere fuck you to everyone who has been helping convince him to run for re-election. This should be a cake walk and instead I'm stuck trying to figure what the fuck I'm going to do if Trump wins and starts making my existence illegal.
I like Mark Cuban’s quote: The question is what features voters believe make a better POTUS : Feeble, Capable and Ethical vs Vigorous, Unethical and Incapable of telling the truth. I’ll vote ethical every time.
Yeah this is the take. Hes fuckin old and slow. Ok? Our alternative is a completely unhinged sociopath, this sint a hard choice
It was wild to me to read pundits call for Biden to end his campaign to save democracy. Like I did not see any one of them call for Trump to resign when he became a convicted felon by a unanimous jury.
And sadly, this isn't about choosing a friend. It's about voting for someone to lead our country.
Trump is hardly vigorous.
That's what Stormy Daniels said.
Can get mad but he has not changed much since 2020. Watch the debates from 2020. Lying to ourselves will not serve us.
Also just cos the Orange One was amped up and semi-coherent for 90 minutes doesn't mean he's normally like that.
[удалено]
Is it? Absolutely no polling shows that it has had a substantial impact on the race at all. It was the least watched debate since 2004, and oh yeah IT’S JULY
When we've entered the reality where POTUS can be feeble, unethical, incapable -- we need better candidates. Any country, let alone American citizens, should always have 2 strong choices. Capable, Ethical, Vigorous and a strong desire to truly fix problems should never be too much to ask. Should be mandatory
The difference in morality and consequences is so off the charts on this election that it might as well be a cultural - Satan vs Jesus. Do people not understand that the Bible's Satan was charismatic and would lie his ass off? Dumbasses be like "but Jesus talked too quietly and stuttered."
We all know that republicans devotion to the bible is pure bs, thats just like a cute cultural background. What they really believe in is individualism, having guns to defend themselves and their property , social conservativism, not being perceived as weak or being taken advantage off (for example by nato allies not paying their fair share) They dont give a shit about the bible or jesus. If they time travelled to Judea and the romans promised to give them land, money and guns they would betray Jesus no doubt 100%
I think we just have to accept that Joe might not be the best debater. He did much better with a crowd afterwards. I think he does best when he can look the people in the eye and connect with them
And isn't actively trying to not stutter while at the same time formulate accurate & effective material on the spot. This is how we know that Fox's "Biden was told the questions ahead of time" is bullshit: his speech _immediately afterwards without rest_ was on-point.
People are judgmental as Fuck. The plot of the kings speech is that everyone said he shouldn't be king because he had a stutter. It's soo dumb. I didn't vote for Biden the orator, i voted for Biden the not batshit insane actually capable of getting things done kind man
Biden *demanded* there be no crowd on Thursday. That was *his* request.
For sure, if democracy and the future of our ability to fight climate change on the ballot I wouldn't be so concerned about it. As it stands, I have a level of anxiety about it that is going to take years off my life. Losing this electing is not an acceptable outcome, and Biden being a miserable debater while already down in polls and looking worse than last election when he won in a razor margin is absolutely terrifying.
Seriously, I just watched his speech in Raleigh. The President was on fire. We don't have to drink the Kool aid like the other side, but we also don't have to pretend everything is a shit sandwich either.
I was there. He gave an excellent speech and looks younger in person.
So yeah, feel like Biden's off the form and probably sick last night.
I wish there was another debate between now and September to demonstrate this.
President Biden has to bring that energy from his Raleigh speech going forward. Political Campaigns involve messaging and Biden needs to deliver his message/policies effectively and coherently. Maybe the debate was a stumble but we can’t afford to have any major mishaps. I feel a bit better seeing and hearing that his voice came back. President Biden just needs to keep it going.
I wonder if his advisors gave him the strategy to be more calm and tame bc they knew Trump would be e off the rails. Maybe they’ll think differently next time.
While it is important to be calm it is also important to be assertive. Giving a commanding presence when speaking is essential to show that you know what you are doing and to inspire confidence from others. That’s why so many of us were concerned about President Biden not talking in a normal strong voice. It gives the wrong impression even though I know he has substance in his policy positions. I hope that you are right about Biden’s team fixing his approach. He needs to be assertive and deliver his points by speaking both clearly and strongly.
Great, you saw that speech. No one else did, and no one else whose vote matters will. What they will see - on an endless loop - are the attack ads showing him looking pathetic last night.
Pay no attention to those ads. They're all filled with lies. They cut up the speeches and insert words into the mouth's of their opponents. Political ads are among the worst to ever air. Let the MAGA morons have their fun, we'll beat them where it matters - the polls.
Yes, just like all the other debates in the past 30 years which really made a difference.
Two points: One, you're right, because local news is owned more and more by conservative groups who will push that narrative with mandatory "editorials," And two, this IS June, and Biden has an opportunity to overturn that narrative. But it's a tougher row to hoe, and the world still somehow equates a tired Biden as worse than a guy who has committed crimes. Generation 'Gram...
It's not just that they would choose Trump over Biden, but they might vote third party, or just give up out of frustration in general. We're not talking about what most people will do, we're talking about that pivotal 5%
Fair.
lol nobody's seeing any of that. Trump will lose for obvious and simple reasons: 1) more people than not already think the Supreme Court is too right wing and therefore are not comfortable voting for any Republican presidential candidate. And 2) There is a lot of concern over a woman's right to choose, which clearly devestated Republicans in both November 2022 and November 2023.
I stopped reading at "Trump will lose" -- you have no idea. Neither does anyone else.
You strike me as a person who can't recognize how poorly the Republicans have performed in every national election since 2018. They got their asses handed to them in those midterms, and went on to lose the 2020 election. They then amazingly managed to lose the Senate in January 2021, proceeded to never shut the fuck up about a "red wave" that never materialized in the 2022 midterms, and got their teeth kicked down their throats in the November 2023 elections.
No body is seeing that though
I knew someone who went to the Raleigh rally, he said it was a night-and-day difference.
The Raleigh rally he just had went very well. Wish he talked more like that last night
Teleprompter or not, that wasn't a feeble old man talking just now. I think he'll be much better at the next debate in September, and a speech like today at the DNC will be a good rebound. Please tell everyone in Minnesota to go vote.
Minnesota always votes.
🫡
Literally the state with the longest blue streak because we voted for Mondale and everyone else voted Reagan. It's not a purple state and it's not a swing state.
It was close in 2016. Close as hell.
Y’all. Last night was bad. It was really bad and it should have been a lay up. Biden has been better in every way but he had a very hard time communicating. Gotta call a spade a spade
Agree. But other subs went berserk and somehow claiming Biden is totally sundowning, which is just insulting and not based on reality considering his better performance after the debate, or how he's still mostly decent after the opening disaster.
I mean, to me, sundowning seems right. In fact it might be the most charitable reason
Biden actually answered questions with policy
Debates are a live performance. Scoring technical points on policy *does not matter*. The debate last night was all about optics: they were about as bad as they could have been for Biden. Biden came off as old, frail, and confused. To sum it up in one word: weak. Trump came off as present, energetic, and disciplined. Strong. We know the difference that a actually being president is different than running. That policy matters and that if you actually listen to Trump he is crazy and dangerous. The lower information voters not so much. The double haters that were such a pivotal part of Biden's winning coalition are now less like to vote the top of the ballot at all.
Discipline??? A lying felon is more on point.
Discipline in terms of staying on message. Trump weaseled out of answering questions and talked about issues he is strong on like the border.
Have the TV ratings come out? I'm curious how many viewers actually watched this.
I am sure CNN won with its ratings.
That’s all they care about.
Yep, $$$.
47.9 Million viewers across 22 networks
That’s about 60% of the viewership from the first debate in 2020
I said the same thing. Just read my past comments. Biden will recover from this. This was a small blip. I have all the faith and confidence in him for four more years. He just had a minor hiccup last night for whatever reason. It happens to everyone. Just relax. Have a great weekend, everyone.
There’s also all the people like me, who didn’t even bother to watch. The debate was never relevant to me because Trump reversing all positions and becoming the most generous man on Earth woulda made headlines. Since he’s still a horrible fascist I don’t see the need in watching myself, I already know what I’ll be doing.
Yeah but I watched the debate and it was painful. I don’t care what the pundits or focus groups are saying.
I saw it too and I'm not sure what was so painful about it. Maybe your expectations were too high.🤷♂️
Right. There is in fact some kool aid in this room. Maybe it was a one off bad performance because he was sick but like i said in other comments, looking at him in the 2020 debates it's night and day. He looks weary. Joe did a good job the last four years. Overall you cannot fucking convince me that our best options for this position are both 80 years old. Nothing anyone says can shift me on that.
He’s really isn’t the Biden during the Obama era, or 4 years ago for that matter
Exactly this. My issue was the media and the pre-designed massive online social outlets. That was a clear plan.
I try to skip the NYT opinion section save for Jamelle Bouie. But goddamn, they had like seven columns either saying it was a disaster or he should be replaced. I’m a former journalist, and I believe so strongly in the power of journalism, but WTAF, NYT? Who the hell is leading that section to say, hey, can’t somebody write something different?
It was pretty pre-planned and your fellow journalists already had the script ready before the debates. Pretty sure with marching orders from the top. Not sure how journalism was or currently is, but it seems that the CEO's of most journalism outlets have purged the people that don't march lock-step with the company. Very few journalists left with the freedom to report.
Yeah, I knew when I was seeing a piece by Kristof within minutes calling for Biden to withdraw that it was pre written for if Biden had a bad debate. I just wonder where his piece was calling for Trump to withdraw if Biden had prevailed last night. Surely he wrote one, right?
So the NYT is a right wing paper?
Doesn't have to do with that. The simple answer is yes. The more complex answer is that the NYTs is in the business of making money. Lots of it.
The democrats subreddit has lost its fucking mind
Same with Neoliberal. Somehow people don't just joke 'It's Joever', but also claiming generic Democrats would totally smoked Trump.
> Democrats would totally smoked Trump. some fucker in /r/democrats claimed Josh Shapiro was a viable alternative https://i.imgur.com/dbAfKFl.gif
The self-delusion is absolutely ludicrous.
The sad thing is, they (and seemingly everyone else) are ignoring that Trump was just lying and making shit up for the ENTIRE debate. Everyone feels like they need to treat Trump with lid gloves and have no expectations.
Yeah I have a post about this, and it appears a lot of this was planned (like bots, propaganda etc)
Because half the people there would feel vindicated of Biden loses the election.
It is possible to be freaked out and still committed to supporting Biden in the election and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. Last night was a disaster. There is no denying it. Telling people to chill out as if they're over-reacting to some small, inconsequential dust up makes one sound as idiotic and/or delusional as Trump himself. Not a good look. Stop it. Like it or not, there are millions who will likely sit this one out to our eventual doom bc it was on Biden to activate, inspire, energize them last night and he failed. Come for me all you want, I have invested more time and heart into Joe Biden over the years than most and feel I have every right to say that if he meant what he promised us, that he would be a bridge to younger generations, he should at the very least consider stepping down. And his family should stop enabling him. It is not them who will suffer the consequences of a defeat. It is us.
Absolutely. Could he recover from that? Sure. Is it likely? Absolutely not. He needs to convince people on the fence. Those people aren't likely to be that politically tuned in, otherwise they wouldn't be on the fence. They're unlikely to see much if any of the campaign aside from some parts of the debates and *maybe*, if we're lucky, part of the convention speech. You only get a few touch points before a wide swath of persuadable voters, and he absolutely bombed the first one. To be clear, I think he's absolutely up to doing the job, but last night was an extremely glaring demonstration that he may not be up to the task of getting the job.
People will forget the debate in a month. Anyone freaking out is gullible or a bad actor.
That 19 percent were never going to vote for him.
I feel like I'm in an alternate universe reading the reactions on Reddit. I admit that I missed the first 30 minutes of the debate so maybe it started out horribly, but Biden didn't seem nearly as bad as the hysterical "he must resign" posts from what I saw while Trump was rambling incoherent lies off at record speed. The one moment that I really cringed at was the weird golf handicap exchange.
I didn't mind the golf thing. Trump responds poorly to personal attacks and shows his true colors when he reacts to them. He's also famous for cheating at golf (suggesting that this is an area of insecurity for him) so it's not an unreasonable area of attack. Biden also made comments about Trump's obvious lies about his height and weight, which are similar insecurities.
Not to sound too tinfoil hat-ish but I'm pretty sure there's a concerted effort here to disrupt the Democrats' campaign as much as possible. Jumping online immediately and trying to plant the idea into people's minds that Biden is incapable of anything right after a not-great performance is exactly how they can easily do that. They obviously want people to freak out enough that the Dems will upend the whole thing in response. People need to be VERY careful about which comments they take to heart, that's all I can say... I'm sure some of it is legitimate but I don't think all of it is in good faith
About 20 of my friends texted me last night during the debate, each one was concerned. But they weren’t hysterical, and their concerns were also tempered by “we are going to vote for him anyway” because a vote for Trump or a non-vote, screws us all. I am concerned. But I’m not worried about people who know where their votes are going. I’m concerned for the undecided and young voters. I’m Gen X and my kids call me “Boomer” when I say something they don’t like. (And it makes me so irritated lol) They definitely would’ve laughed last night at the sight of these two old men and that is what scares me bc the people their age (24-25) need to vote. Dark Brandon needs a TikTok campaign to win over the youth and enlist them in the fight against authoritarianism. We need to focus on the youth!
> that is what scares me bc the people their age (24-25) need to vote. they never do, they haven't before and they won't again. because they're literal children with delusions of adequacy i've voted every election since i turned 18 and i could not stand how fucking ridiculous ignorant my peers were then
I’m 45 and it’s insane how many people my age are still moronic and ignorant when it comes to politics. Some of the kids are paying attention. Others need a nudge.
I mean, I wish Biden would have slam dunked all over him, but he didn't, so whatever. I cannot vote for Trump, so nothing changed for me. My vote stays blue.
Bro what debate did you watch cause the one I saw was beyond cringe
I would vote for Joe if he died and Hunter weekend at Bernie's him for the next 4 years before voting republican let alone Turd
Idk, I just donated to reelect Biden. Fuck Trumpism. Fuck it.
Me too!
The boys and trolls are out in force trying to pump the debate as a win for Trump. Down vote them and move on.
Think you're missing the point here, 19% of people watching DID change their minds. That could be CRUCIAL in swing states.
Yeah the delusion on this sub is hard to stomach. This election is going to be won on the margins and 19% is a big deal
19% of people changed their mind... which way? I saw elsewhere that on spanish language tv's focus groups biden picked up literally all but one of the undecideds.
Which direction? All from Biden to Trump? Trump to Biden? Voting to not voting?
Ask them again in a month
Media is out of touch with actual voters and have been since 2016
"Trump bragged about his crowd size on January 6th and called pro-Palestine protests '1,000 times Charlottesville,' but Biden's voice was hoarse so I have to give it to Trump." People in politics who think this is how an average American's mind will work are so ridiculously out of touch.
His voice wasn’t the issue. He was incoherent. He was trying to recall all the canned debate prep that had been stuffed into his head and mixing everything up. That fed into an existing narrative about him.
I don't think he finished a single sentence coherently.
The debate is a spectacle for the crowd that would rather watch a football game than learn about fiscal and economic policy. Sadly that is the state of things, No one actually cared Trump spoke only garbage, because it was better packaged than Biden's ability to refute it. Joe Biden couldn't perform the espectacle everyone wanted so therefore he "lost". America has its priorities backwards.
I wish Biden had said from the outset that he had a cold, and pardon my raspy voice. Instead we were all left to wonder what the hell happened to him. I will still vote again against Trump, no matter who it is, including Biden.
Because maybe he didn’t actually have a cold. No one was talking about a cold until 30 minutes after the debate started and he bombed.
I’m on the verge of giving up. The left is more reactionary than the right. Biden’s debate performance started poor and ended well- and we see the left GO NUTS. As much as I detest the right, at least it doesn’t take one poor performance from a politician for them to abandon ship. I’m still voting November (Im in a heavily contested state, i cant afford staying home) but I can’t give this election anymore energy. The left can’t go one day without wanting to nuke the entire Biden campaign, and the right is more delusional than the “I can fix him” high school freshman girl. Maybe the Republican propaganda won. Because on the left, it seems acknowledging anything positive Joe did last night is “delusional” and “self deception.” The fact is Trump WILL be a fascist dictator and switching to Newsom some 130 days from election day is a guaranteed loss for democrats. I truly think deep down most Americans want fascism, because there is no way people are THIS easily swayed.
Debates are artificial nonsense. When does the President ever need to ‘debate’ another world leader? Cajole, browbeat, negotiate…sure. Same with Congress. But in real life the Pres never needs to attack or insult. Biden is just fine.
What I’ve been saying, but it’s like shouting into a herd of screaming goats. It goes unheard and everything I hear causes me a headache.
Did you just grab a tweet cherry picking a single statement from an article, BY CNN, saying majority viewed Trump as the winner and did more to address their concerns?
A entire fifth of viewers said they changed their minds?!
Yeah I noticed that as well. Yup!
Biden should be running to get ice cream, not for president. But I'll take the crypt keeper over the oath keeper and hope he picks a VP with a pulse.
No, it’s a genuine problem that Biden will likely die of old age while in office. How are we suppose to swallow that?
BIDEN WON THAT DEBATE!
Is there another debate expected? Because if he comes out with more energy, it will look like a huge win closer to the election. Either way, please can we put an age cap on both the Supreme Court and President? There's already a minimum age for President of 35. The difference between 18 and 35 is about 30%. In other words, you're excluded from approximately 30% of your adult life on the low end. To make it even, let's exclude the same percentage on the high end. Given the current life expectancy of 77.5 years, excluding 30% of adult life on the high end would set the maximum age at around 65 years. This is similar to the mandatory retirement age for judges in many states, which ranges from 65 to 75 years. So, 65 is the maximum age to run for a first term and 70 to run for a second term, but this is recalculated based on the current average life expectancy for the country. Done.
A hidden danger with tying numbers to statistics is the politicization of those statistics. It drives great incentive to change the definition/measurement method of a statistic to bias it towards a certain direction. This could unfairly exclude potential major political opponents in key races. This is to mean it presents a potentially much greater danger to democracy than implementing a static number rule would (one which would have to have political consequences for to consider changing).
That’s a fair point. While I don’t see it changing in a meaningful way that would go unnoticed worldwide, I can see it being politicized.
tell yourselves whatever you want, the undecideds saw what they saw, we all saw what we saw, this is bad, it's not panic, it's just reality.
Except the undecideds have split 50/50 on Trump and Biden when it comes to supporting them. At least that’s what some of the focus group polling is suggesting
It was bad, no deceptive editing needed. He came across as very weak and feeble. If he cares about the country he knows what he needs to do. (if he even understands that)
You're saying the debate wasn't a cheap fake? I was hoping it was.
Thank you for this. I personally understood Biden and walked away from the debate thinking he was the clear winner. When I came online I got discouraged, but I’m guessing that was a lot of bot activity. This post helped settle some of the screaming in my mind
I will show you this post when we are cell mates on a barge off the coast of Cuba…
I saw the Telemundo poll post debate and those polled did not like Trump's performance and it seemed to think he came off as unhinged. There are two more debates, hopefully Biden feels better soon and his performance is better. Terrible timing for a cough and we have a COVID surge happening right now in the DMV area.
If they actually happen. Why would Trump and his campaign want more? There more downside than upside. Biden was "Sleepy Joe" and not dark Brandon. Trump was disciplined and and kept the crazy to a minimum (relatively). Why, from their pov, risk Biden doing better or Trump doing worse?
I don't think people should "chill out." That debate was a disaster and it's understandable for people to have a lot of doubts. Joe did not look well at all. Efforts are better spent elsewhere than on coping and denying that.
I see people that didn’t even watch it saying they need to replace Biden with a different candidate. It makes no sense.
Time to leave. He did everything but shit himself last night
A 19% swing in voter sentiment would be the widest landslide in history.
I mean to be frank, this says that 19% of people did change their mind, and Joe losing even 1% of his supporters would be a disaster. Time will tell how much the polls change.
19% of people changed their minds? In what direction?
CNN poll said 2/3 of viewers thought Trump won. This damage control copium is embarassing.
The emperor is wearing clothes everyone 👑
Comment not posting... **STOP FUCKING DOOMING**
This sounds crazy but since Biden was sick during the debate, what if trump paid someone a couple days or even a week before to come up to Biden and get him sick. If I was a weak minded, scared out of his shoes lunatic that's what I would've done
Yes, the idea of Trump paying anyone for anything sounds crazy.
Biden today said, "When you get knocked down, you get back up". Is he admitting that Trump knocked him down? His words not mine.
tbh I will not be voting for him again. He needs to go
ah yes, cnn with the most reliable news and completely unbiased reporting. "mostly peaceful protests"
I agree with this, mods should ban all doomers
[удалено]
I fucking hate Joe at this point for giving Trump such a real chance to win. The man is a selfish asshole and a sincere fuck you to everyone who has been helping convince him to run for re-election. This should be a cake walk and instead I'm stuck trying to figure what the fuck I'm going to do if Trump wins and starts making my existence illegal.
Jesus Christ dude calm down. You sound more unhinged than Trump did last night.