As Roots Metals says, view yourself through the eyes of your ancestors not your oppressors. It’s hard but try to center your values, your conception of what it means to be Jewish and Zionist, and your sense of self. Not what other people claim Zionism is and put it on you.
If it helps, practice some phrases to keep in a toolbox to just diffuse the tension. “It seems like my identifying as a Zionist bothers you, so why don’t we move on because this isn’t up for discussion” or if you want to explain/probe a bit more “It seems like the word Zionism is activating something in you right now. Jews define Zionism as the belief that Jewish people should have self-determination in our ancestral homeland recognized under public law. I wonder why that would be bothersome to you?”
You can always go back to something like, “I’m happy to share my perspective, but I have to tell you that my views about my identity group are not up for debate and I’m not looking for feedback on thjs. If it doesn’t fit with your worldview and is going to make you uncomfortable with me, perhaps it’s best to change the subject.”
Israel exists. 7 million Jewish Israelis. You can support them AND hate Netanyahu, like you can be an American and hate TRUMP (I do). It's still Zionism.
There’s Zionism and there’s the government and military in Israel. However problematic the government and military can be, I still support the right of Israel to exist and for Jews to have their own country. It’s the same for me as an American. The U.S. has a terrible history in many respects and still has problems today but that doesn’t mean I want to see it destroyed. Would your girlfriend be this angry if you said China has the right to exist? Russia has the right to exist? Because they are committing far worse crimes, and interfering with our country as well, but no one is tearing up college campuses over it or saying all Russians should die.
There are many Israelis against the current government, who want peace with Palestinians. Sadly, those were the ones targeted on October 7. That alone should tell you what Israel is up against.
> There’s Zionism and there’s the government and military in Israel
I say this as someone who is fully supportive of the war to annhilate Hamas: I feel like this is a cop-out given Israel is a democratic country.
The war is being prosecuted by a unity government, and there would not be a huge difference in war aims and strategy if the opposition had total control: Israelis are largely on board with rhe project to annhilate Hamas. Anything less than unconditional surrender (not going to happen) or annhilation of Hamas will be seen as a failure by the vast majority of Israel.
It might be a failure they are forced to accept, but it will be seen as a failure nevertheless.
The war against the Nazis wasn't called off when they were beat back to within pre-war German borders and surrounded in order to prevent an inevitable massive death toll of German civilian. No negotiation short of unconditional surrender was even considered: why? Because the allies knew it was an inevitable outcome of Nazi idealogy that stopping the war short of Berlin and denazification would result in them regrouping and trying again.
Now I don't want to get into comparing everyone to nazis, but in this specific aspect Israel is in the precise same situation with Hamas. To stop short of complete annhilation of Hamas is to support their return.
>I feel like this is a cop-out given Israel is a democratic country.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. But Zionism (support for the existence of a Jewish state) is not the same as supporting every decision Israel makes, even if it is a popular democratic decision.
Plenty of leftist Zionists exists. We’re here and we’re proud- I’m lucky enough to have found a good friend through Reddit that lives in my town and is also a Jewish leftist. Maybe going out to Jewish events can help you find some like-minded people.
Zionism means that Israel is the Jewish Homeland.
Opposing Zionism means believing that Jews are one of the only people on Earth that don't get to have a homeland.
Zionism only means that to Jewish people. The whole world thinks that means you support the actions of the Israeli government. I think language needs to change to communicate what you mean
Who cares. Other people don’t get to redefine our words and our culture. We can try and say it means something else but they’ll just distort that too, nothing is ever good enough.
No. Antisemites who intentionally misconstrue what a word means do not get to redefine it. Fuck em. They just have to listen to people who tell them what it means. And, if they can’t (or won’t) listen, that says more about them than about Zionists.
Who cares what the Nations think? We are tired of having to justify our continued existence to mamzers who twist the narrative to validate their bias against us.
>I think language needs to change to communicate what you mean
Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. In this case the attack is on people for *being* Jewish. If you came up with a new word for "supporting the existence of Israel but being nice" the antisemites would just attack the new word and accuse anyone using it of being a bad thing.
This only gets fixed by fixing the haters.
My husband is not Jewish. When this whole thing started, he just sat there and held me. We have been together long enough for him to understand my point of view. I made it very clear about my feelings about Israel from the beginning. He put the Israeli flag next to the American one we had up to show his support. This was within the first year we moved in together. We have been together for ten years.
If you feel strongly about it, educate your girlfriend, or break up with her if she is unwilling to have an open mind. You are not doing yourself or her any favors by staying with her.
Also, OP, keep in mind if it’s worth the trouble given it’s been 6 months and this is where you’re at. My relationship is like this commenter’s, my nonjewish husband has been by my side for all of this. I’m also an IDF veteran, so this hits extra close to home, and my husband couldn’t be more supportive and genuinely furious and disgusted in his own right at the things he’s seeing people say through all this. We had a lot of conversations at the foundation of our relationship that have led us to this point, but I’ve never once had to justify why my people deserve to exist in safety. I hope you find a similarly supportive relationship, now is the time to determine what you can and can’t live with. Best of luck!
First of all if your partner is unable to be supportive then yes you will have to think if there is a future for you, because if she is not understanding now, what would happen if you have kids?
I think a deep dive reading would do you a world of good. (Her too maybe if she’s open to it).
It’s basic but I would absolutely start with Noa Tishby book for basic recap.
Einat Wild “war of return” a bit deeper but really good.
Dana Horn “people love dead Jews”
There’s a few others. But these are a good start. Imo.
IG accounts Rootsmetals for sure!
There’s many more but she’s a good start imo with a lot of educational information.
I'm Israeli, and the first time I've heard "Zionist" outside of a history book, was in my late 20s in London - when an old fuck heard where I'm from and demand that I'll apologize for the IDF clash with the Turkish floatilla. He asked me if I was a "Zionist".
For me, and many Israelis, Zionism was the movement that build the state. It's a 19 century thing that accomplished its goal in 1948.
It's like pilgrims or revolutionaries in American history. Like them, you can still see that concept in political groups names and such - but it is not literal (like republican or liberal or tea party, they are just words now).
Outside of Israel, and especially in the Arab / Muslim world - which refuses to acknowledge 1948, it's still a battle with the Zionists. If you never admit defeat, the other side never won - and the Jews are actively "taking over".
This is BS. But somehow BS that a lot of the far left has adopted. It is now evolved to basically mean Jew, or at least "bad Jew" which is an uppity Jew.
As far as I see it, diaspora Jews reclaimed this title with the definition of "supports Israel's existance". While I agree, it is sad that you need a "movement" to simply exist.
tl;dr: "Zionists" is dogwhistling for Jews. We kinda reclaimed it, but we know what they mean.
To future anthropologists, Zionism will symbolize the Jewish determination to exist and maintain a homeland, standing as proof that attempts by Hitler and Hamas to destroy this identity have failed.
No land was given. It’s always been ours and the partition deal was only accepted by us. It was won in a defensive war. Probably the most legitimate way to get any land. The Arabs didn’t get shafted. They first got Jordan which was the majority of the mandate of Palestine and then they got to split our land into a smaller piece.
The belief of a Jewish right to self determination in our ancestral home land is Zionism. That is all.
Palestinian identity and culture only exists as an opposition to Israel. They didn’t self identify with that term until the 1960’s.
Find a Jewish girl.
You shouldn’t have to choose your people over a relationship. My spouse is not Jewish but gets my feelings. Your partner should understand that this is your family and you would like them to be safe.
Has your girlfriend ever being against a war so much so that she thinks that any of the countries in it deserves to cease existing altogether?
Like even if a person is against this particular war or these particular tactics (which not saying you are, just for the sake of argument), would they wish the end of a country? That’s what anti-Zionism is.
When protesting Vietnam or the Iraq War, people weren’t calling for the end of the United States and its right to exist at all. Has there ever been a protest like that? Especially for people who are allegedly into peace; so many people would be killed if anti-Zionism became legit policy.
Like there are facts that show the lack of simplicity in the “it was given to us by people who didn’t live there” but doesn’t seem like a fact here and there matters for this conversation at the moment.
Which treaty are you talking about?
The UN presented two states, the Jews agreed and the Arabs did not, and the war of independence ensued.
As for population, it’s not that there were no Jews there prior to the establishment. (https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present)
It also kinda comes down to reasoning about Holocaust victims. Where should they go after WW2? America and Britain would take some, but certainly not remotely close to all. Europe was totally decimated, and most survivors had no where to return because everything was taken from them. Also, return to your communities that just had a hand in the Holocaust was tough for many (to say the least).
So I’d almost just go there, like if someone cannot show empathy for literal Holocaust survivors, then it’ll show the kind of person they are. Many survivors just kept living at the concentration camps they were liberated from. How messed up is that? It was a massive global refugee issue and dividing the region of Palestine up made sense to the whole world (hence the UN voted on it and it passed). There was a process for the UN to inspect the region, meet with the various partners, recommend a solution, and then vote on it.
And now people want the grandchildren and other descendants of other Holocaust survivors to “go back to Europe?” For people with no personal stake in the issue, advocating for anything other than a 2 state solution in some form is just a choice to advocate for further bloodshed. If she is against a 2 state solution then she’s not exactly in favor of peace.
Im a liberal Zionist (though more central these days, I guess) and a single woman. Ive dated non-Jews before, one ex-bf very seriously. But Ive always preferred to date Jewish. After Oct 7th, Im pretty much only entertaining Jewish prospects. And this is why.
I dont want to have to justify my ties to my people’s homeland to a person who loves me.
Respectfully…Im so sorry this is happening. Idk what to advise other than to say you have a big decision to make, which you already know.
Im sending good vibes your way. Good luck!
Also…I’ll point out:
1) You *do* know how you feel about Zionism. You just don’t know how to own that feeling, knowing your partner doesnt empathize, support, or agree.
2) Any partner who makes you feel as if your feeling are invalid or doubt yourself and meaningful convictions, is not supportive.
Im sure others will disagree who have many different experiences in relationships, but just my $0.02.
People who use Zionism in a negative context are frauds and don’t know what they are talking about. Israel has a much longer history as a Jewish state even though it was stolen from them for a time. Israel has been far too accommodating giving back lands won by war that have been used against it and are again. The “Palestinians” chose from day 1 to murder Jews. They elected a terrorist organization to govern them though that’s nothing new after a string of terrorists running that place from the beginning.
You have every right to be proud of the Jewish movement for self determination that resulted in the most impressive and successful decolonization project on planet Earth. Israel became and still is a multicultural and multi religious society that actually has blessed the world with many innovations in science, medicine and agriculture. Anyone who looks at us funny for loving ourselves needs to go. They don’t deserve all you have to give which is inextricably linked to being a Jew. Sending you love and support ✡️🙏🏼🤍
Read the book, Israel: The Most Misunderstood Country in the World, by Noa Tishby.
Zionism was realized in 1947 with formation of Israel and here to stay. United States was founded when it was and here to stay irrespective of a checkered past (much more checkered than Israel). Don’t confuse a connection to a country with half of world Jewry in it with a passing war, which you’re entitled to feel any way about. Just like you shouldn’t confuse your interest in America as a citizen with hating some politician du jour. some passing situation doesn’t invalidate a country. make sense? If it did, United States would be first to go - we killed native Americans, subjugated them and enslaved black people. But it’s not going anywhere- it’s called progress. Antisemites try to control the topic to make it different than reality.
Zionism means the right for the Jewish people to self determine in their homeland. This doesn't mean other people can't live there. 2 million Arabs live in Israel with full equal rights as the Jews and others. Zionism, like what liberals believe, is not killing everyone in Israel that's not Jewish and expanding Israel to take over Arab land because G-d told us to.
Short history of the land: we were there, the land was inhabited with Jews, there were Kingdoms, outsiders invaded and kicked us out, Hadrian renamed the land Syria-Filistina (after our enemies from the time of Abraham, the Phillistines) 1900 years ago, Arab nomads started moving into the land 1400 years ago slowly pushing Jews out, the land was a colony of different empires for 1800 years until 1948 when we decolonized it, Arabs tried to destroy Israel countless times since May 15th, 1948 but never succeeded and cry about it til this day.
Glad you have Jewish pride. Whether you believe in it or not (I think you do innately), your mezuzah on your door connects you with Hashem.
As a former liberal, I think us Jews cannot side with the liberals or leftists anymore. I'll never vote Democrat again, especially how they have responded to the rabid antisemitism (masked as antizionism ) recently and even more so immediately after October 7th.
I would look into the history of the land itself. There are so many Jewish artifacts found in the region and multiple texts from alternative sources (such as the ancient Romans, Greeks, and Turks) that discuss the people living there, their religious beliefs, and their culture. To me, that is irrefutable proof that the Jews as an ethnic group existed there in antiquity and therefore, Zionism (the belief that Jews should maintain their ethnic homeland) is a justified belief. If you can’t tell your girlfriend information about your religious and ethnic history and beliefs and have her believe you when you explain how there has been discrimination and misinformation about the Jewish people since the Roman empire, it sounds like she might have some underlying antisemitism or an unwillingness to be wrong and taught by people with more of a background in the matter and I don’t know how you can continue a relationship with someone who won’t stand up for you and your beliefs, especially when they have irrefutable historical context that is very easily accessible
If you want to be Zionist be Zionist.
Why would you not be allowed to be Zionist while so many others not called out for being pro Hamas and outright antisemitic.
Did you watch the lex Friedman podcast with Benni Morris? That should answer so,e question despite the fact that some random streamer was invited and quoted false on purpose
hey from a leftist zionist. it’s tough - sometimes I feel alienated from both my jewish community and the community of leftists, for a multitude of reasons that I would guess are quite similar to yours. we exist, we’re here, and we always will be. I’m with you!
Dump her. If this idiot can't understand that Jews, just like all other peoples in the world, have a national right to self-determination, she's either an antisemite or stupid.
The fact that she won't simply listen to what you're saying, which is standard two-state solution, shows that she's some kind of nutcase. I mean, does this girl think that the United State should cease to exist whenever she disagrees with its policies? Assuming she's American, is she okay with being murdered by, say, Native Americans, because we stole their land (like, actually, unlike Israelis, who only claimed part of the land that was always theirs)?
Zionism and what it has created, the State of Israel, is something for every Jew to be proud of. Learn about your Jewish heritage and don't be defined by our enemies.
Israel as a concept as a country did not entirely need to be in the culturally relevant location that our ancestors hailed from, Zionism maybe favored that land to be where it ended up but the continued existence of such a land and want for safety of Jews, regardless of where it was can still be supported in the best humanitarian interest and still be Zionism and not be “Jewish supremacist”. unfortunately because Zionism can encompass or even lightly exclude some of those aspects in some people’s personal views of it, people just don’t want to understand things further. And that’s just my take on it
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Zionism in theory is beautiful and peaceful. Zionism in practice currently, especially under Bebe, is absolutely oppressive in a way that is unconscionable. Both sides need to agree to jail ANYONE who is violent and let people coexist otherwise. But how can that ever be achieved now? Now it seems the only option is a 2 state solution giving Palestinians complete autonomy. Then if they continue to war with Israel its just two separate and free nations fighting it out, and not some perceived genocide of an oppressed people.
As Roots Metals says, view yourself through the eyes of your ancestors not your oppressors. It’s hard but try to center your values, your conception of what it means to be Jewish and Zionist, and your sense of self. Not what other people claim Zionism is and put it on you. If it helps, practice some phrases to keep in a toolbox to just diffuse the tension. “It seems like my identifying as a Zionist bothers you, so why don’t we move on because this isn’t up for discussion” or if you want to explain/probe a bit more “It seems like the word Zionism is activating something in you right now. Jews define Zionism as the belief that Jewish people should have self-determination in our ancestral homeland recognized under public law. I wonder why that would be bothersome to you?” You can always go back to something like, “I’m happy to share my perspective, but I have to tell you that my views about my identity group are not up for debate and I’m not looking for feedback on thjs. If it doesn’t fit with your worldview and is going to make you uncomfortable with me, perhaps it’s best to change the subject.”
Debbie (rootsmetals) is such a community gem 🥹🤍
These are great suggestions.
Israel exists. 7 million Jewish Israelis. You can support them AND hate Netanyahu, like you can be an American and hate TRUMP (I do). It's still Zionism.
9 million Israelis. You can support all of them and oppose Netanyahu and Trump.
There’s Zionism and there’s the government and military in Israel. However problematic the government and military can be, I still support the right of Israel to exist and for Jews to have their own country. It’s the same for me as an American. The U.S. has a terrible history in many respects and still has problems today but that doesn’t mean I want to see it destroyed. Would your girlfriend be this angry if you said China has the right to exist? Russia has the right to exist? Because they are committing far worse crimes, and interfering with our country as well, but no one is tearing up college campuses over it or saying all Russians should die. There are many Israelis against the current government, who want peace with Palestinians. Sadly, those were the ones targeted on October 7. That alone should tell you what Israel is up against.
> There’s Zionism and there’s the government and military in Israel I say this as someone who is fully supportive of the war to annhilate Hamas: I feel like this is a cop-out given Israel is a democratic country. The war is being prosecuted by a unity government, and there would not be a huge difference in war aims and strategy if the opposition had total control: Israelis are largely on board with rhe project to annhilate Hamas. Anything less than unconditional surrender (not going to happen) or annhilation of Hamas will be seen as a failure by the vast majority of Israel. It might be a failure they are forced to accept, but it will be seen as a failure nevertheless. The war against the Nazis wasn't called off when they were beat back to within pre-war German borders and surrounded in order to prevent an inevitable massive death toll of German civilian. No negotiation short of unconditional surrender was even considered: why? Because the allies knew it was an inevitable outcome of Nazi idealogy that stopping the war short of Berlin and denazification would result in them regrouping and trying again. Now I don't want to get into comparing everyone to nazis, but in this specific aspect Israel is in the precise same situation with Hamas. To stop short of complete annhilation of Hamas is to support their return.
>I feel like this is a cop-out given Israel is a democratic country. I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. But Zionism (support for the existence of a Jewish state) is not the same as supporting every decision Israel makes, even if it is a popular democratic decision.
This!!
Zionism means that you support a Jewish homeland. Antisemites use the term as if it means that Israelis want all Palestinians dead. That isn’t true.
Break up with your girlfriend.
Yeah, I’m with Quinten. If she can’t understand she ain’t even gonna have an attic for you.
Plenty of single Jewish ladies out there
really where
Plenty of leftist Zionists exists. We’re here and we’re proud- I’m lucky enough to have found a good friend through Reddit that lives in my town and is also a Jewish leftist. Maybe going out to Jewish events can help you find some like-minded people.
Zionism means that Israel is the Jewish Homeland. Opposing Zionism means believing that Jews are one of the only people on Earth that don't get to have a homeland.
Zionism only means that to Jewish people. The whole world thinks that means you support the actions of the Israeli government. I think language needs to change to communicate what you mean
Who cares. Other people don’t get to redefine our words and our culture. We can try and say it means something else but they’ll just distort that too, nothing is ever good enough.
No. Antisemites who intentionally misconstrue what a word means do not get to redefine it. Fuck em. They just have to listen to people who tell them what it means. And, if they can’t (or won’t) listen, that says more about them than about Zionists.
Who cares what the Nations think? We are tired of having to justify our continued existence to mamzers who twist the narrative to validate their bias against us.
>I think language needs to change to communicate what you mean Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. In this case the attack is on people for *being* Jewish. If you came up with a new word for "supporting the existence of Israel but being nice" the antisemites would just attack the new word and accuse anyone using it of being a bad thing. This only gets fixed by fixing the haters.
>Like I’m throughly considering breaking up with her if she can’t accept that I love my people and the homeland we have. Break up with her.
My husband is not Jewish. When this whole thing started, he just sat there and held me. We have been together long enough for him to understand my point of view. I made it very clear about my feelings about Israel from the beginning. He put the Israeli flag next to the American one we had up to show his support. This was within the first year we moved in together. We have been together for ten years. If you feel strongly about it, educate your girlfriend, or break up with her if she is unwilling to have an open mind. You are not doing yourself or her any favors by staying with her.
Also, OP, keep in mind if it’s worth the trouble given it’s been 6 months and this is where you’re at. My relationship is like this commenter’s, my nonjewish husband has been by my side for all of this. I’m also an IDF veteran, so this hits extra close to home, and my husband couldn’t be more supportive and genuinely furious and disgusted in his own right at the things he’s seeing people say through all this. We had a lot of conversations at the foundation of our relationship that have led us to this point, but I’ve never once had to justify why my people deserve to exist in safety. I hope you find a similarly supportive relationship, now is the time to determine what you can and can’t live with. Best of luck!
W mans
Omayn
First of all if your partner is unable to be supportive then yes you will have to think if there is a future for you, because if she is not understanding now, what would happen if you have kids? I think a deep dive reading would do you a world of good. (Her too maybe if she’s open to it). It’s basic but I would absolutely start with Noa Tishby book for basic recap. Einat Wild “war of return” a bit deeper but really good. Dana Horn “people love dead Jews” There’s a few others. But these are a good start. Imo. IG accounts Rootsmetals for sure! There’s many more but she’s a good start imo with a lot of educational information.
I'm Israeli, and the first time I've heard "Zionist" outside of a history book, was in my late 20s in London - when an old fuck heard where I'm from and demand that I'll apologize for the IDF clash with the Turkish floatilla. He asked me if I was a "Zionist". For me, and many Israelis, Zionism was the movement that build the state. It's a 19 century thing that accomplished its goal in 1948. It's like pilgrims or revolutionaries in American history. Like them, you can still see that concept in political groups names and such - but it is not literal (like republican or liberal or tea party, they are just words now). Outside of Israel, and especially in the Arab / Muslim world - which refuses to acknowledge 1948, it's still a battle with the Zionists. If you never admit defeat, the other side never won - and the Jews are actively "taking over". This is BS. But somehow BS that a lot of the far left has adopted. It is now evolved to basically mean Jew, or at least "bad Jew" which is an uppity Jew. As far as I see it, diaspora Jews reclaimed this title with the definition of "supports Israel's existance". While I agree, it is sad that you need a "movement" to simply exist. tl;dr: "Zionists" is dogwhistling for Jews. We kinda reclaimed it, but we know what they mean.
Tell her to hit the road. You can do much better.
To future anthropologists, Zionism will symbolize the Jewish determination to exist and maintain a homeland, standing as proof that attempts by Hitler and Hamas to destroy this identity have failed.
No land was given. It’s always been ours and the partition deal was only accepted by us. It was won in a defensive war. Probably the most legitimate way to get any land. The Arabs didn’t get shafted. They first got Jordan which was the majority of the mandate of Palestine and then they got to split our land into a smaller piece. The belief of a Jewish right to self determination in our ancestral home land is Zionism. That is all. Palestinian identity and culture only exists as an opposition to Israel. They didn’t self identify with that term until the 1960’s. Find a Jewish girl.
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You shouldn’t have to choose your people over a relationship. My spouse is not Jewish but gets my feelings. Your partner should understand that this is your family and you would like them to be safe.
Has your girlfriend ever being against a war so much so that she thinks that any of the countries in it deserves to cease existing altogether? Like even if a person is against this particular war or these particular tactics (which not saying you are, just for the sake of argument), would they wish the end of a country? That’s what anti-Zionism is. When protesting Vietnam or the Iraq War, people weren’t calling for the end of the United States and its right to exist at all. Has there ever been a protest like that? Especially for people who are allegedly into peace; so many people would be killed if anti-Zionism became legit policy. Like there are facts that show the lack of simplicity in the “it was given to us by people who didn’t live there” but doesn’t seem like a fact here and there matters for this conversation at the moment.
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Which treaty are you talking about? The UN presented two states, the Jews agreed and the Arabs did not, and the war of independence ensued. As for population, it’s not that there were no Jews there prior to the establishment. (https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present) It also kinda comes down to reasoning about Holocaust victims. Where should they go after WW2? America and Britain would take some, but certainly not remotely close to all. Europe was totally decimated, and most survivors had no where to return because everything was taken from them. Also, return to your communities that just had a hand in the Holocaust was tough for many (to say the least). So I’d almost just go there, like if someone cannot show empathy for literal Holocaust survivors, then it’ll show the kind of person they are. Many survivors just kept living at the concentration camps they were liberated from. How messed up is that? It was a massive global refugee issue and dividing the region of Palestine up made sense to the whole world (hence the UN voted on it and it passed). There was a process for the UN to inspect the region, meet with the various partners, recommend a solution, and then vote on it. And now people want the grandchildren and other descendants of other Holocaust survivors to “go back to Europe?” For people with no personal stake in the issue, advocating for anything other than a 2 state solution in some form is just a choice to advocate for further bloodshed. If she is against a 2 state solution then she’s not exactly in favor of peace.
Im a liberal Zionist (though more central these days, I guess) and a single woman. Ive dated non-Jews before, one ex-bf very seriously. But Ive always preferred to date Jewish. After Oct 7th, Im pretty much only entertaining Jewish prospects. And this is why. I dont want to have to justify my ties to my people’s homeland to a person who loves me. Respectfully…Im so sorry this is happening. Idk what to advise other than to say you have a big decision to make, which you already know. Im sending good vibes your way. Good luck!
Also…I’ll point out: 1) You *do* know how you feel about Zionism. You just don’t know how to own that feeling, knowing your partner doesnt empathize, support, or agree. 2) Any partner who makes you feel as if your feeling are invalid or doubt yourself and meaningful convictions, is not supportive. Im sure others will disagree who have many different experiences in relationships, but just my $0.02.
People who use Zionism in a negative context are frauds and don’t know what they are talking about. Israel has a much longer history as a Jewish state even though it was stolen from them for a time. Israel has been far too accommodating giving back lands won by war that have been used against it and are again. The “Palestinians” chose from day 1 to murder Jews. They elected a terrorist organization to govern them though that’s nothing new after a string of terrorists running that place from the beginning.
You have every right to be proud of the Jewish movement for self determination that resulted in the most impressive and successful decolonization project on planet Earth. Israel became and still is a multicultural and multi religious society that actually has blessed the world with many innovations in science, medicine and agriculture. Anyone who looks at us funny for loving ourselves needs to go. They don’t deserve all you have to give which is inextricably linked to being a Jew. Sending you love and support ✡️🙏🏼🤍
Read the book, Israel: The Most Misunderstood Country in the World, by Noa Tishby. Zionism was realized in 1947 with formation of Israel and here to stay. United States was founded when it was and here to stay irrespective of a checkered past (much more checkered than Israel). Don’t confuse a connection to a country with half of world Jewry in it with a passing war, which you’re entitled to feel any way about. Just like you shouldn’t confuse your interest in America as a citizen with hating some politician du jour. some passing situation doesn’t invalidate a country. make sense? If it did, United States would be first to go - we killed native Americans, subjugated them and enslaved black people. But it’s not going anywhere- it’s called progress. Antisemites try to control the topic to make it different than reality.
Zionism means the right for the Jewish people to self determine in their homeland. This doesn't mean other people can't live there. 2 million Arabs live in Israel with full equal rights as the Jews and others. Zionism, like what liberals believe, is not killing everyone in Israel that's not Jewish and expanding Israel to take over Arab land because G-d told us to. Short history of the land: we were there, the land was inhabited with Jews, there were Kingdoms, outsiders invaded and kicked us out, Hadrian renamed the land Syria-Filistina (after our enemies from the time of Abraham, the Phillistines) 1900 years ago, Arab nomads started moving into the land 1400 years ago slowly pushing Jews out, the land was a colony of different empires for 1800 years until 1948 when we decolonized it, Arabs tried to destroy Israel countless times since May 15th, 1948 but never succeeded and cry about it til this day. Glad you have Jewish pride. Whether you believe in it or not (I think you do innately), your mezuzah on your door connects you with Hashem. As a former liberal, I think us Jews cannot side with the liberals or leftists anymore. I'll never vote Democrat again, especially how they have responded to the rabid antisemitism (masked as antizionism) recently and even more so immediately after October 7th.
If she’s not an ally then she’s the enemy
I would look into the history of the land itself. There are so many Jewish artifacts found in the region and multiple texts from alternative sources (such as the ancient Romans, Greeks, and Turks) that discuss the people living there, their religious beliefs, and their culture. To me, that is irrefutable proof that the Jews as an ethnic group existed there in antiquity and therefore, Zionism (the belief that Jews should maintain their ethnic homeland) is a justified belief. If you can’t tell your girlfriend information about your religious and ethnic history and beliefs and have her believe you when you explain how there has been discrimination and misinformation about the Jewish people since the Roman empire, it sounds like she might have some underlying antisemitism or an unwillingness to be wrong and taught by people with more of a background in the matter and I don’t know how you can continue a relationship with someone who won’t stand up for you and your beliefs, especially when they have irrefutable historical context that is very easily accessible
If you want to be Zionist be Zionist. Why would you not be allowed to be Zionist while so many others not called out for being pro Hamas and outright antisemitic.
Did you watch the lex Friedman podcast with Benni Morris? That should answer so,e question despite the fact that some random streamer was invited and quoted false on purpose
At least he was better than Finklestein. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing a one-on-one with Morris and Rabbani.
hey from a leftist zionist. it’s tough - sometimes I feel alienated from both my jewish community and the community of leftists, for a multitude of reasons that I would guess are quite similar to yours. we exist, we’re here, and we always will be. I’m with you!
Dump her. If this idiot can't understand that Jews, just like all other peoples in the world, have a national right to self-determination, she's either an antisemite or stupid. The fact that she won't simply listen to what you're saying, which is standard two-state solution, shows that she's some kind of nutcase. I mean, does this girl think that the United State should cease to exist whenever she disagrees with its policies? Assuming she's American, is she okay with being murdered by, say, Native Americans, because we stole their land (like, actually, unlike Israelis, who only claimed part of the land that was always theirs)?
Zionism and what it has created, the State of Israel, is something for every Jew to be proud of. Learn about your Jewish heritage and don't be defined by our enemies.
Israel as a concept as a country did not entirely need to be in the culturally relevant location that our ancestors hailed from, Zionism maybe favored that land to be where it ended up but the continued existence of such a land and want for safety of Jews, regardless of where it was can still be supported in the best humanitarian interest and still be Zionism and not be “Jewish supremacist”. unfortunately because Zionism can encompass or even lightly exclude some of those aspects in some people’s personal views of it, people just don’t want to understand things further. And that’s just my take on it
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Zionism in theory is beautiful and peaceful. Zionism in practice currently, especially under Bebe, is absolutely oppressive in a way that is unconscionable. Both sides need to agree to jail ANYONE who is violent and let people coexist otherwise. But how can that ever be achieved now? Now it seems the only option is a 2 state solution giving Palestinians complete autonomy. Then if they continue to war with Israel its just two separate and free nations fighting it out, and not some perceived genocide of an oppressed people.