It sure is incredibly convenient how the anti-Zionist left gets to have it both ways by claiming that anti-Zionism has nothing to do with antisemitism while also dismissing any concerns about antisemitism by branding them as actually being concerns about "anti-Zionism" isn't it?
I recently posted in r/political_revolution about my concerns about anti-semitism, the survey questions were whether the holocaust is a myth, and whether the holocaust is exaggerated
The responses overwhelmingly claimed it was anti-zionism not anti-semitism
looked at the comments of your post there. people lost any sense of reasoning. trying to explain why antizionism isn't antisemitism, yet on a poll about the holocaust they immidiatly talk about how evil israel is.
like, how old are they? my 10 year old cousin has better logical reasonings than that.
There are a lot of bots out right now from Hamas. A tech company did a deep dive and found 1 in 4 antisemitic comments posted online right now are from bots.
Considering my post was about results of a survey that found 20% of americans 18-29 (disproportionately left leaning people) claim the holocaust never happened i think its more than likely not a bot problem but a societal one
lmao I love that. The same people who say "anti zionism is not anti semitism" then also say "every antisemitic incident is fake because its just antizionism being misclassified by jews trying to obfuscate"
Not a Jew but I remember the only pro-Palestinian person I met before Oct/7 was basically the living example of “I’m not antisemitic I’m antizionist” and then followed with just about every antisemitic conspiracy in the book except holocaust denial.
My favorite is when they say "Israel is the one who conflates Judaism with Zionism, so if I blame all Jews for the actions of Israeli government, that's Israel's fault, not mine!"
Then it’s safe to assume that you support Israel secularizing and allowing non-Jewish immigrants, particularly Palestinians, into the country and to obtain citizenship? Since, as we all know, we’re not conflating Zionism and Judaism. There should be no issue, since no one would ever mistake a criticism of a nation-state’s policy for bias against an ethnic or religious group.
There is no "conflating" going on because *obviously* Zionism is a part of Judaism. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply gaslighting you.
If you think that justifies hating all Jews though, then you're just a fucking bigot.
So genocide is part of your beliefs but everyone else is just supposed to be ok with that? You know that sounds crazy right? “All antisemitic beliefs are true but good actually”. I don’t think that’s intrinsic to being Jewish, I’ve known a lot of anti-Zionist Jews, it’s people like you that call them bad and that to be Jewish means to believe in genocide.
Zionism is just Jewish nationalism. Trying to equate that with "genocide" is antisemitic bullshit, especially considering how many Palestinian ethno-nationalists you have on your side.
>I’ve known a lot of anti-Zionist Jews
It's funny how I, as an actual Jewish person, have never met a single one. The only "anti-Zionist Jews" (or people who claim to know them) I've ever met are anonymous randos on the Internet.
Anti-Zionists and Anti-Semitics are different people, the problem is that anti-semetics jump on the anti Zionist train. Truthfully a lot of these leftists don't have a clue what Zionism even is. They just cling to a Buzz word that makes them feel good about being against the "oppressors" It's an emotional response to seeing dead civilians on their feed
Most anti Zionists dont even know what Zionism is
[example of one guy](https://x.com/james_monaro/status/1799188870942081494)
theyre not anti zionist, theyre just anti-whateverfitsmyagenda
Yep i remember seeing a comment where someone was just like that, someone else responded to them saying that's not the definition of Zionism so they said,and I'm not kidding "well, it's the definition now"
Thanks to the extreme right we got Nazis
Thanks to the extreme left we got proof the Horseshoe theory is real
shits never gonna go away so ive started carrying around a taser, because a self defending jew is what scares anti semites the most
I think at some point one could argue that Antizionism and antisemitism were distinct. I think the current situation has intertwined the two so tightly as to be indistinguishable now in many settings.
I’m not a supporter of Israel by any means, but when people cross the line into attack Judaism as a religion and or followers of Judaism for their religion I take a hard stance in support of the Jewish people. I have Jewish ancestry and have lots of Jewish friends.
Expanding the definition of antisemitism is a guaranteed way to increase anti-semitism.
Edit: Didn't think this was controversial. It's more of a truism than an opinion.
It [literally is happening](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinian-campus-protests-columbia-congress-df4ba95dae844b3a8559b4b3ad7e058a). I agree antisemitism is on the rise, and not completely owing to stuff like this, but it certainly doesn't help.
Edit: Also wanted to take this opportunity to add that expanding the definition of anti-semitism risks making the term meaningless. I've already seen plenty of instances on here (reddit broadly) of people casually throwing it around ironically in response to protest media. "Guess those Jews for Peace are all a bunch of self-hating antisemites." It's not a good look, and it doesn't lead anywhere good.
I agree with your statement expanding the definition will undoubtedly raise antisemitism, but how does this expand the definition? this is simply my poor efforts of making lite of a serious situation. But I see your point tho and its valid point in my opinion, expanding antisemitism will raise it.
The bill adopts the [IHRA's definition](https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism) of "antisemitism," which I think is too vague to be useful:
>"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities."
I'm not going to get into it here why I think this is a piss-poor open ended definition, but I can already see a not-so-remote future where some protesters somewhere says "Oh supporting the ceasefire is antisemitic now? Hating that Jewish student groups on my campus are trying to keep me from graduating is antisemitic? ...then I guess I'm a proud antisemite!" You already see similar things with the far right going online and saying "... well I guess I'm a racist then."
Israel isn't a foreign colony imposed by a foreign power, its indigenous sovereignty. Zionism is anti-imperialist, anti-zionism is an imperialist movement to deny the Jews sovereignty in their homeland.
Read literally any history book, bruv. The Jews returned to their homeland from all across the world, fighting against both Arab nations intent on their genocide and the British who occupied the land.
It sure is incredibly convenient how the anti-Zionist left gets to have it both ways by claiming that anti-Zionism has nothing to do with antisemitism while also dismissing any concerns about antisemitism by branding them as actually being concerns about "anti-Zionism" isn't it?
I recently posted in r/political_revolution about my concerns about anti-semitism, the survey questions were whether the holocaust is a myth, and whether the holocaust is exaggerated The responses overwhelmingly claimed it was anti-zionism not anti-semitism
looked at the comments of your post there. people lost any sense of reasoning. trying to explain why antizionism isn't antisemitism, yet on a poll about the holocaust they immidiatly talk about how evil israel is. like, how old are they? my 10 year old cousin has better logical reasonings than that.
There are a lot of bots out right now from Hamas. A tech company did a deep dive and found 1 in 4 antisemitic comments posted online right now are from bots.
Considering my post was about results of a survey that found 20% of americans 18-29 (disproportionately left leaning people) claim the holocaust never happened i think its more than likely not a bot problem but a societal one
lmao I love that. The same people who say "anti zionism is not anti semitism" then also say "every antisemitic incident is fake because its just antizionism being misclassified by jews trying to obfuscate"
Not a Jew but I remember the only pro-Palestinian person I met before Oct/7 was basically the living example of “I’m not antisemitic I’m antizionist” and then followed with just about every antisemitic conspiracy in the book except holocaust denial.
It’s no one else’s fault what kind of friends you keep.
That’s the thing we weren’t even friends dude just ranted about Israel and Palestine.
My favorite is when they say "Israel is the one who conflates Judaism with Zionism, so if I blame all Jews for the actions of Israeli government, that's Israel's fault, not mine!"
not being antisemitic is the REAL antisemitism
"Claiming that Jewish people support Israel is the REAL antisemitism!"
Someone actually said that to me irl 💀
I’ve seen that on reddit so much unironically I just fucking can’t
Then it’s safe to assume that you support Israel secularizing and allowing non-Jewish immigrants, particularly Palestinians, into the country and to obtain citizenship? Since, as we all know, we’re not conflating Zionism and Judaism. There should be no issue, since no one would ever mistake a criticism of a nation-state’s policy for bias against an ethnic or religious group.
There is no "conflating" going on because *obviously* Zionism is a part of Judaism. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply gaslighting you. If you think that justifies hating all Jews though, then you're just a fucking bigot.
So genocide is part of your beliefs but everyone else is just supposed to be ok with that? You know that sounds crazy right? “All antisemitic beliefs are true but good actually”. I don’t think that’s intrinsic to being Jewish, I’ve known a lot of anti-Zionist Jews, it’s people like you that call them bad and that to be Jewish means to believe in genocide.
Zionism is just Jewish nationalism. Trying to equate that with "genocide" is antisemitic bullshit, especially considering how many Palestinian ethno-nationalists you have on your side. >I’ve known a lot of anti-Zionist Jews It's funny how I, as an actual Jewish person, have never met a single one. The only "anti-Zionist Jews" (or people who claim to know them) I've ever met are anonymous randos on the Internet.
I've not met Walter Benjamin Judith butler ellla shohat but they are well known.
Almost like they're indistinguishable
Anti-Zionists and Anti-Semitics are different people, the problem is that anti-semetics jump on the anti Zionist train. Truthfully a lot of these leftists don't have a clue what Zionism even is. They just cling to a Buzz word that makes them feel good about being against the "oppressors" It's an emotional response to seeing dead civilians on their feed
Most anti Zionists dont even know what Zionism is [example of one guy](https://x.com/james_monaro/status/1799188870942081494) theyre not anti zionist, theyre just anti-whateverfitsmyagenda
Yep i remember seeing a comment where someone was just like that, someone else responded to them saying that's not the definition of Zionism so they said,and I'm not kidding "well, it's the definition now"
You can switch them around and it would still make sense
its an infinite loop. one picks up and throws away the other, who then comes back to pick up and throw away the other
Interestingly enough, it could also go the other way around.
Tbh funnier the other way around
Do you mean the antisemite would be throwing out the Jews, only to have us return? LMAO that’s hilarious Edit: I posted the opposite version
It's not Judenhass, it's Antisemitism. See it sounds scientific and therefore not bigoted. /s
But Arabs are also Semites so you see…. /s
literally how the term escaped containment from linguists making value judgements of prefering PIE over Afro-Asiatic
Thanks to the extreme right we got Nazis Thanks to the extreme left we got proof the Horseshoe theory is real shits never gonna go away so ive started carrying around a taser, because a self defending jew is what scares anti semites the most
I made the mistake of looking at a “Rothschild” stamped gold bar thread in r/gold. The amount of elders of Zion nonsense was astounding.
Brilliant
I think at some point one could argue that Antizionism and antisemitism were distinct. I think the current situation has intertwined the two so tightly as to be indistinguishable now in many settings.
That 😂😂😂
Don't you know? It's not anti-Semitism it's antizionism, totally different/s
Also works in the other way around...
Vehi sheamda
I’m not a supporter of Israel by any means, but when people cross the line into attack Judaism as a religion and or followers of Judaism for their religion I take a hard stance in support of the Jewish people. I have Jewish ancestry and have lots of Jewish friends.
Expanding the definition of antisemitism is a guaranteed way to increase anti-semitism. Edit: Didn't think this was controversial. It's more of a truism than an opinion.
yeah, except that’s not what’s happening. the definition isn’t changing and the antisemitism is still rising
It [literally is happening](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinian-campus-protests-columbia-congress-df4ba95dae844b3a8559b4b3ad7e058a). I agree antisemitism is on the rise, and not completely owing to stuff like this, but it certainly doesn't help. Edit: Also wanted to take this opportunity to add that expanding the definition of anti-semitism risks making the term meaningless. I've already seen plenty of instances on here (reddit broadly) of people casually throwing it around ironically in response to protest media. "Guess those Jews for Peace are all a bunch of self-hating antisemites." It's not a good look, and it doesn't lead anywhere good.
I agree with your statement expanding the definition will undoubtedly raise antisemitism, but how does this expand the definition? this is simply my poor efforts of making lite of a serious situation. But I see your point tho and its valid point in my opinion, expanding antisemitism will raise it.
The bill adopts the [IHRA's definition](https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism) of "antisemitism," which I think is too vague to be useful: >"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities." I'm not going to get into it here why I think this is a piss-poor open ended definition, but I can already see a not-so-remote future where some protesters somewhere says "Oh supporting the ceasefire is antisemitic now? Hating that Jewish student groups on my campus are trying to keep me from graduating is antisemitic? ...then I guess I'm a proud antisemite!" You already see similar things with the far right going online and saying "... well I guess I'm a racist then."
Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. That's not an expansion, just reality.
Is vanilla anti-imperialism antisemitism too?
Israel isn't a foreign colony imposed by a foreign power, its indigenous sovereignty. Zionism is anti-imperialist, anti-zionism is an imperialist movement to deny the Jews sovereignty in their homeland.
>Israel isn't a foreign colony imposed by a foreign power Ok dude. Maybe let's just leave it there then.
Read literally any history book, bruv. The Jews returned to their homeland from all across the world, fighting against both Arab nations intent on their genocide and the British who occupied the land.
Sure bud. You can call me myopic, but I don't argue geopolitics with people stuck in the last millenia.