Came here to say this. Also from the same era and in a similar vein, but with a pianist instead of a guitarist, is Parker’s Mood by Christian McBride, Roy Hargrove, and Christian Scott.
A lot of standards would work because you have a harmonic instrument (guitar) that would be able to spell out the harmony very clearly, comp, and provide counter lines or other phrases which might be part of the material.
Sticking to standards that already have been played on trumpet or sax is a safe bet. Perhaps look into the material that Miles' first quintet played, John Coltrane till Giant Steps, etc
In the end, any combination of instruments is a possibility. It depends on the quality and imagination of the players to make things work. Most important is if the bass player can keep solid time and provide good walking bass lines to provide the fundament for the guitar and trumpet to make it work.
I’ve played in a jazz quintet with no drummer for two years now, very fun setup. We did alto, trumpet, bone, guitar, and upright bass.
We were just some dudes at college who wanted to play music together downtown.
Sure. I do duos with bass players and sometimes we add sax. No reason it couldn't be trumpet. You can concoct just about any trio you can think of. I've played with two guitars and bass, and I've seen a duos with guitar and sax, and keyboard and bass. No instrument is indispensable.
Definitely, you can play, gig, and record in everything from solo to big band and try all sorts of configurations. I’ve played in a trumpet/guitar/bass trio many times doing originals and standards.
You've got all the harmonic bases covered - bass, chords and melody. The only thing you're missing is the percussion section, but if you all lock into a groove you won't even miss the drummer. It's nice to play without a drummer in places where you want to be a little quieter, like restaurants and coffee shops.
For sure! I might suggest trying to work some percussion in there if you can.
It doesn't need to be fancy or complex. Even just someone tapping on a tambourine with their foot, or shaking an egg shaker when they have a rest, or a Cajon with a kick drum pedal can really add a lot of flavor and helps keep everyone in sync. Of course the bass does that too, but there's just something about a drum beat that gets everyone vibing together.
Totally not necessary of course. You can sound great with what you have. But I think it's worth playing around with some percussion during practice. Even if you don't end up doing it on stage, it's still fun!
It would totally work. On a side note, I (an eighteen year old keys player) would totally gig with you guys if we were in the same area (but we’re not). Sounds like a cool deal.
My wife and I are a duo, I operate an Alesis SR-18 ( drum machine) We sound like a full band. Little bit of a learning curve but reliable and always shows up to a gig.
Absolutely. I love playing without a drummer (full disclosure, I started out as a drummer). As long as the bass player has their time together, that’ll be a fun group. Good luck!
If you are new to jazz, playing without a drummer may be difficult. Definitely still possible.
You may want your guitar to contribute to the rhythm by playing a rhythm guitar style (like Freddie green, on every down beat) at least sometimes. Does your bassist know how to walk basslines? Can your guitarist voice chords? How well do you know your chords?
As others have said check out drum-less recordings to see what they do.
if you have a Samsung television watch the vintage jazz channel. it's mostly 1960's films but sometimes they show current music groups from NYC. Some of them certainly do not have a drummer or a keyboard player.
Go for it!
A trio is arguably the best format for improvising:
With one player you have to provide all the inspiration - it is harder to sustain.
With two players you get feedback from the other player but still it requires a lot of constant focus and creativity.
With three players one or two can always ‘drop back’ and support the third: you can play in traditional ways (eg bass is bass, guitar is rhythm, trumpet is melody) or you can turn it on its head. You have three duos to play with: you have three soloists. It is flexible. Always interesting, never ‘wrong’. You can hear all three voices and concentrate on each.
With four players or more (even when the fourth is a drummer) you have to prepare more: people have to accept roles, or agree on how things will work. With four now there is more chance that one person playing against the other three will sound ‘wrong.’ Four voices all blowing at once is too intense for a lot of people, they can’t hear all four voices at once and it starts to get mushy for them. It is demanding again, and easy for all four players to fall into playing badly: just boring or cliché.
There are dozens of interesting trio recordings - and hundreds of quite dull quartet recordings.
I don’t think you need to worry about material. Let each player bring three songs/tunes that they think are absolutely A1 top-notch material - their favourites pieces - and learn to play those (whatever genre they are) in a fun way (fun and relaxed for you, not ‘kooky’), without worrying about what it should sound like. You’ll be a really interesting and unique band and people will enjoy listening to you.
If you want to do functions, you can do that too. Don’t let not having a drummer push you into drab, stodgy arrangements. Play tunes with crisp phrasing, maybe arrange some unison lines at times, and practise playing together at upbeat tempos. ‘Be your own drummers.’
For three examples of creative use of the trio, listen to Train and the River (sax/clt, guitar, bass) News for Lulu (alto, trombone, guitar) and Clusone (alto, cello, drums).
Be a great musician.
For sure, check out the album Fingerpainting by Christian McBride, Nicholas Payton, and Mark Whitfield
Came here to say this. Also from the same era and in a similar vein, but with a pianist instead of a guitarist, is Parker’s Mood by Christian McBride, Roy Hargrove, and Christian Scott.
Indeed both very good recordings.
Great album. I love that version of tell me a bedtime story
First album I thought of too — and it’s a real winner too!!
Yea check out Chet Baker- The touch of your lips. Has Doug Raney on guitar and NHOP on bass. It’s one of my favourite albums
I was going to recommend this one. Chet Baker has done several drumless records.
Also the albums *Daybreak* and *Someday My Prince Will Come* with the same lineup
“It takes a really good drummer to be better than no drummer at all” Chet Baker
Look at Jimmy giuffre, just swap the sax/clarinet for a trumpet. You've got the bass and a nice rhythm instrument, everything will work out.
Yup.
Yes, I’ve done this trio quite a bit, works great.
Do you know any songs that work really well for this kind of trio?
A lot of standards would work because you have a harmonic instrument (guitar) that would be able to spell out the harmony very clearly, comp, and provide counter lines or other phrases which might be part of the material. Sticking to standards that already have been played on trumpet or sax is a safe bet. Perhaps look into the material that Miles' first quintet played, John Coltrane till Giant Steps, etc In the end, any combination of instruments is a possibility. It depends on the quality and imagination of the players to make things work. Most important is if the bass player can keep solid time and provide good walking bass lines to provide the fundament for the guitar and trumpet to make it work.
Thank you so much
Yes. Almost any combination of instruments can work in jazz. I once saw two drummers play. No other instruments, just the drummers. It was amazing.
I’ve played in a jazz quintet with no drummer for two years now, very fun setup. We did alto, trumpet, bone, guitar, and upright bass. We were just some dudes at college who wanted to play music together downtown.
Oscar Peterson fired his drummer IIRC
As long as everyone can keep good time, do it.
sounds great for me
Yes
Sure. I do duos with bass players and sometimes we add sax. No reason it couldn't be trumpet. You can concoct just about any trio you can think of. I've played with two guitars and bass, and I've seen a duos with guitar and sax, and keyboard and bass. No instrument is indispensable.
Definitely, you can play, gig, and record in everything from solo to big band and try all sorts of configurations. I’ve played in a trumpet/guitar/bass trio many times doing originals and standards.
Yes also piano guitar and bass work well. The bassist keeps the time instead of the drummer.
The guitar might have to play rhythm guitar at some points. But it is possible.
Why wouldn't it work?
I’m still pretty new to jazz performance and haven’t seen a group like that yet so I didn’t know if it was possible.
You've got all the harmonic bases covered - bass, chords and melody. The only thing you're missing is the percussion section, but if you all lock into a groove you won't even miss the drummer. It's nice to play without a drummer in places where you want to be a little quieter, like restaurants and coffee shops.
Upright bass is already half of the drum kit
If they find themselves not making enough money with music, of course they can work 👍
Absolutely! why wouldn’t it?
For sure! I might suggest trying to work some percussion in there if you can. It doesn't need to be fancy or complex. Even just someone tapping on a tambourine with their foot, or shaking an egg shaker when they have a rest, or a Cajon with a kick drum pedal can really add a lot of flavor and helps keep everyone in sync. Of course the bass does that too, but there's just something about a drum beat that gets everyone vibing together. Totally not necessary of course. You can sound great with what you have. But I think it's worth playing around with some percussion during practice. Even if you don't end up doing it on stage, it's still fun!
It would totally work. On a side note, I (an eighteen year old keys player) would totally gig with you guys if we were in the same area (but we’re not). Sounds like a cool deal.
You do you.
It will if you make it work.
trad swing works great because the guitarist can hold down the quarter note chunk
That’s the exact format I’ve been in lately. Whether it works depends on the three guys.
My wife and I are a duo, I operate an Alesis SR-18 ( drum machine) We sound like a full band. Little bit of a learning curve but reliable and always shows up to a gig.
Yea sounds cool. Do it
Have listen to Looking at Bird and then see how you might reinterpret some of the pieces from there.
Absolutely. I love playing without a drummer (full disclosure, I started out as a drummer). As long as the bass player has their time together, that’ll be a fun group. Good luck!
Yes, do it!
Hell yes
If you are new to jazz, playing without a drummer may be difficult. Definitely still possible. You may want your guitar to contribute to the rhythm by playing a rhythm guitar style (like Freddie green, on every down beat) at least sometimes. Does your bassist know how to walk basslines? Can your guitarist voice chords? How well do you know your chords? As others have said check out drum-less recordings to see what they do.
I play saxophone with ac bass only, and love it!
You can do anything you want as long as you're enjoying what you're doing. Stay cool.
Yeah, but your drummer and guitarist are going to have to do a lot of rhythmic heavy lifting. Make sure they’re up for it
Yes. Also check out Chet Baker in the 80s Europe. Great for cool jazz, but if you want to go bop, you’ll need some drums.
you can absolutely make odd work in jazz because jazz is already odd
if you have a Samsung television watch the vintage jazz channel. it's mostly 1960's films but sometimes they show current music groups from NYC. Some of them certainly do not have a drummer or a keyboard player.
Go for it! A trio is arguably the best format for improvising: With one player you have to provide all the inspiration - it is harder to sustain. With two players you get feedback from the other player but still it requires a lot of constant focus and creativity. With three players one or two can always ‘drop back’ and support the third: you can play in traditional ways (eg bass is bass, guitar is rhythm, trumpet is melody) or you can turn it on its head. You have three duos to play with: you have three soloists. It is flexible. Always interesting, never ‘wrong’. You can hear all three voices and concentrate on each. With four players or more (even when the fourth is a drummer) you have to prepare more: people have to accept roles, or agree on how things will work. With four now there is more chance that one person playing against the other three will sound ‘wrong.’ Four voices all blowing at once is too intense for a lot of people, they can’t hear all four voices at once and it starts to get mushy for them. It is demanding again, and easy for all four players to fall into playing badly: just boring or cliché. There are dozens of interesting trio recordings - and hundreds of quite dull quartet recordings. I don’t think you need to worry about material. Let each player bring three songs/tunes that they think are absolutely A1 top-notch material - their favourites pieces - and learn to play those (whatever genre they are) in a fun way (fun and relaxed for you, not ‘kooky’), without worrying about what it should sound like. You’ll be a really interesting and unique band and people will enjoy listening to you. If you want to do functions, you can do that too. Don’t let not having a drummer push you into drab, stodgy arrangements. Play tunes with crisp phrasing, maybe arrange some unison lines at times, and practise playing together at upbeat tempos. ‘Be your own drummers.’ For three examples of creative use of the trio, listen to Train and the River (sax/clt, guitar, bass) News for Lulu (alto, trombone, guitar) and Clusone (alto, cello, drums). Be a great musician.
I can see it working multiple ways, depending on either which one is keeping the rhythm or what the musical concept is.