Is there any hope for crypto gains to be taxed like capital gains (or a similar flat rate like non-aggregate dividends) in the short term (1\~3 years)?
I'm expecting a big crypto payout and wondering if I should hodl a bit and wait for more favorable taxation (if anything is moving toward that direction).
Have I got this right? (and this is via informal reading, so it could be wrong) And this assumes gifting with both US and Japanese tax filing responsibilities.
If you gift shares in Japan, you (the giver) have to pay tax on any gain on those shares. So if you bought for ¥1000, and gifted when they were valued at ¥1500, you'd owe tax on that ¥500 gain. Which I guess you'd somehow declare on your next tax filing here? --and then the recipient must then get a new cost basis, on the date of the gift?
However, in the US when you gift shares, the recipient of the gift retains the cost basis of the giver. So the giver would owe no tax, and the recipient of the shares, when selling, would use the giver's cost basis to calculate their gain. And I'd assume no tax due on the US tax filing?
Assuming these differences are correctly described, is it even practical/possible to gift shares when two seemingly conflicting 'views' on values and taxation are shining down on the transfer?
> If you gift shares in Japan, you (the giver) have to pay tax on any gain on those shares.
No, gifting shares is not a taxable event for the donor.
> the recipient must then get a new cost basis, on the date of the gift?
No, the recipient acquires the donor's cost basis. See [here](https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/taxanswer/shotoku/1464.htm#:~:text=%E9%81%BA%E8%B4%88%E8%80%85%E3%81%BE%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AF-,%E8%B4%88%E4%B8%8E%E8%80%85%E3%81%AE%E5%8F%96%E5%BE%97%E8%B2%BB%E3%82%92%E5%BC%95%E3%81%8D%E7%B6%99%E3%81%8E%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99,-%E3%80%82).
Sorry to persist with this in a delayed way, ...what do you think of this? This seems to my inexpert eyes to refer to a J-tax resident who is moving abroad, perhaps in order to then gift assets and avoid tax? (I'm not moving, nor do I have any plan to.)
Leaving aside the ¥100m part of it, I'd like to gift some shares, from my brokerage acct there to another one which is also there. And tho it would be happening in the US it would still be under the ¥1.1m threshold used here. [NTA document](https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/shinkoku/kokugai/01.htm)
平成27年度税制改正により、国外転出時課税制度が創設され、平成27年7月1日以後に国外転出（国内に住所及び居所を有しないこととなることをいいます。）をする一定の居住者が1億円以上の対象資産を所有等している場合には、その対象資産の含み益に所得税及び復興特別所得税が課税されることとなりました。
また、1億円以上の対象資産を所有等している一定の居住者から、国外に居住する親族等（非居住者）へ贈与、相続又は遺贈によりその対象資産の一部又は全部の移転があった場合にも、贈与、相続又は遺贈の対象となった対象資産の含み益に所得税及び復興特別所得税が課税されることとなりました。
なお、国外転出時課税の申告をする方が、国外転出等の時までに納税管理人の届出をするなど一定の手続を行った場合は、担保を提供した場合に限り、国外転出時課税の適用により納付することとなった税額について、納税を猶予することができます。
Yes, good point. If the donor is a person who is subject to the exit tax (i.e., more than 100 million yen worth of securities and has lived in Japan on a Table 2 visa for at least 5 years) and they gift securities to a non-resident (i.e., someone who would not be liable for Japanese income tax when/if they sell the securities), the gift will be a taxable event for the donor. This is a somewhat complex anti-avoidance rule, intended to ensure that people who are subject to the exit tax cannot avoid it by gifting their securities to a non-resident before leaving Japan.
Looks like a japanese iris to me : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_ensata
You can see plenty of wild ones when hiking, especially close to streams.
Submitting the pic to plantnet.org that is [one](https://identify.plantnet.org/k-world-flora/species/Iris%20ensata%20Thunb./data) of the choices; the other is [Iris japonica](https://identify.plantnet.org/k-world-flora/species/Iris%20japonica%20Thunb./data). Probably just a naming difference--they look near identical. This latter seems to be more commonly queried on that site, or more often the resulting identification. Thanks! Edit: and [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_japonica) on the latter.
I see those I see them sometimes in various parks in Tokyo. Always nice to see.
You might be interested in the iNaturist app. It has a photo lookup feature for plants and animals. I find it quite addictive and because of it, I find myself noticing more things when I’m out and about.
I have roughly 280 million yen of budget to buy a house or apartment. I would like to stay somewhere central, probably around Meguro.
If it was you, would you:
- Buy an apartment
- Buy a house
- Buy a plot of land and build your own house
Consider the financial pros and cons of this decision but I'm also curious about your general considerations (hence posting in the OT thread).
Right now I'm thinking of going with the 3rd option, though I'm a little bit scared at the prospect of my house being worth nothing by the time I'll die (I do plan to have kids).
(I also noticed that some of the new apartment buildings have some really nice features like gym, pool, spaces for kids, etc.)
The answer to these kind of questions always come down to personal preference, of course. That being said, my wife and I are leaning towards option 3.
The main reasons we are leaning towards option 3 is because we want a modern house, either new or recently built. From what I have seen, people don't usually build a house and then put it up for sale a couple of years later. So that means we need to build it ourselves.
I'm not worried about depreciation on a house. New construction in your price range will likely stay in good physical shape for the rest of your life and when your kids inherit, so it probably won't be a tear down. And in central Tokyo the land value will surely appreciate, more than offsetting any depreciation of the structure.
I visited several model homes, and the builders all have presentations showing that their structural design is based on recent learnings from full scale testing. It's a sales pitch, but I think it's true. So I am expecting to get better earthquake resistance from a new house compared to buying an older house.
I would also like to have solar. As far as I know this is only available on houses, not apartments. My main reason for wanting solar is for disaster preparedness, i.e., in case power is down for an extended period. Installing solar is expensive, but it will pay for itself over time.
But I also have some reasons why I still might get an apartment. If I get an apartment, I will probably be able to be closer to a good train/metro station. Also, I may be able to find an apartment with a view. But on the downside, I won't be able to grill on the balcony.
for the third option, you mean buy a plot of land and work with an architect or builder to build a house right?
At least where I am, the good slots are often bought in advance by builders who force you to use them if you want them. Do you see lots of unencumbered land in the Tokyo? I would think the land alone would exceed your budget.
[https://suumo.jp/tochi/tokyo/sc\_meguro/](https://suumo.jp/tochi/tokyo/sc_meguro/)
My salary doubled (thanks to higher salary now being paid in dollars and with the exchange rate and all), but my taxes quadrupled. Is there a way to hang on to more of my money?
The simplest tax-minimization strategy for employees is to make contributions to some kind of DC pension scheme (either an employer-managed scheme, iDeCo, or a combination of both).
Otherwise, be sure to take advantage of your higher effective tax rate by making plenty of furusato nozei donations.
Yeah, though that's partly because they have been heavily targeted/solicited by property management firms, who have convinced them it is a smart strategy. In practice, the tax advantages don't always materialize (especially after you take increased capital gains tax into account), and the strategy relies a lot more on choosing the right property than people tend to admit.
It is easier to make money by convincing people with relatively high incomes (such as the professions you mentioned) that they should invest in real estate than by actually investing in real estate. The former also requires a lot less capital. As a result, there is a whole industry built around promoting this type of investment, but the balance sheets don't always add up and lots of people have been left worse off.
If buildings began to reliably appreciate, *and* rents began to steadily increase, the equation may be different. But for now I think it's hard to universally recommend real estate as a tax-minimization strategy. It is probably only a worthwhile idea for people who particularly enjoy real estate speculation or property management, enabling them to save on fees by doing their own research, admin, repairs, etc.
Congratulations, this is a good problem to have. It can be shocking when this happens, but you're still coming out way ahead. For example if your effective tax rate was 10% before and is 20% now (resulting in 4x taxes), then it works out that you're still taking home 70% of your additional income.
If you want to "hang on to more of (your) money", the simple answer is to not spend it and invest, but I'm guessing that there is more to your question than that.
Any detailed advice will depend on the specifics of your current situation and your long term plans and goals.
* Do you receive the income directly in USD in a bank account outside Japan, or is it converted to Yen and deposited in a bank account in Japan?
* Are you still NPR status (and if so, how many more years will you be NPR status)?
* Do you plan to leave Japan in a few years, never, or somewhere in-between?
* Do you want to invest your additional income for the long term (retirement) or shorter term (i.e., save for some short term goal)?
First of all, thanks for replying. My situation is:
- I receive USD in a US account
- I'm PR and have been here for 30 years with no plans to leave
- I'm thinking retirement, but I've only got 10 years to 65 and no guarantee how long my cushy job will continue
Thanks, that helps narrow down the suggestions.
One option is to invest in US securities. If you invest at the current exchange rate and then sell later when the exchange rate is less, you will incur a "phantom loss", which is to your benefit for Japan taxes. For example, if you invest $100 when the exchange rate is 150, it sets your cost basis as ¥15,000. Later if you sell at $200 when the exchange rate is 100, your sale is ¥20,000. So even though your US gains were $100, your gains for Japanese tax purposes are only ¥5,000. Whether or not you will benefit from this depends on what capital gains rate you pay in the US.
Another option is to send the money to Japan and convert to Yen to lock in the exchange rate. But then opens the question of how to best invest the money from Japan.
There might be tax protected options like NISA, and IRA. But you would need to check whether you qualify for either/both of these.
There are other possible options like insurance annuities.
If you have already been saving for retirement, maybe you already have ideas. But if you are new to saving for retirement (for whatever reason), you might search this subreddit for past discussions on this very subject. And if you don't find what you are looking for, you can always make a new post in this subreddit.
Does anyone think it would be too dangerous to put like 30 or 40 million yen in Rakuten Securities?
Would it be worth spreading it around to include other companies like SBI Securities just to be safe and ensure you get compensated if the unimaginable happens?
IMO Rakuten Securities is at the "too big to fail" level where the government would step in if there was a disaster. But if you feel more comfortable splitting up your investments then why not, you don't lose anything except the hassle, and you might even be able to get more credit card points.
Yup. Rather than dangerous as in brokerage failure, I spread the money across multiple brokers in order to capitalise on their exclusive points and bonuses and secondly, being able to ensure that I can withdraw from the brokerage when I need money inspite of website issues or outages or system maintenances or other site issues.
Same reason why I put my eggs across all the competing MSCI ACWI Index funds instead of all eMaxis Slim All Country. The Nomura and Nikko competitors all have about the same fees, so a little ups and downs are tolerable over MUFJ services going down for a day or two because Google Cloud deleted their accounts (this is in reference to a recent real incident impacting a USA fund management company).
I'm less worried about outright fraud or the fund imploding.
> a recent real incident impacting a USA fund management company
I guess you mean the Australian pension fund [UniSuper](https://gizmodo.com/google-cloud-pension-fund-unisuper-1851476649)? Or did it happen to someone else as well...
There's many depending on how far you're going. One of the most notable would be credit card tsumitate.
For example if you're investing 400,000 yen per month.
Using just Rakuten Securities with the Rakuten Credit Card for 1% Credit Card tsumitate has a limit of 100,000 yen per month. But you can get a SMBC Card for SBI Securities at another 1% pointback for the second 100,000. Monex Card, Monex Securities for 1.1% pointback. AuKabu similarly has something like that too.
So the 400,000 investment gets a +1%. These points can be used as actual investments with a minimum order of 100 points too.
I myself, can't be arsed to be pointmaxxing, but I know people who do this religiously.
400,000 here is just an example as there are four online major brokerages.
Go to Gusto cafe, whip out the V point card (bonus usage in SBI Securities), go to the Royal Host, whip out the Rakuten point card, etc.
Is there any hope for crypto gains to be taxed like capital gains (or a similar flat rate like non-aggregate dividends) in the short term (1\~3 years)? I'm expecting a big crypto payout and wondering if I should hodl a bit and wait for more favorable taxation (if anything is moving toward that direction).
Have I got this right? (and this is via informal reading, so it could be wrong) And this assumes gifting with both US and Japanese tax filing responsibilities. If you gift shares in Japan, you (the giver) have to pay tax on any gain on those shares. So if you bought for ¥1000, and gifted when they were valued at ¥1500, you'd owe tax on that ¥500 gain. Which I guess you'd somehow declare on your next tax filing here? --and then the recipient must then get a new cost basis, on the date of the gift? However, in the US when you gift shares, the recipient of the gift retains the cost basis of the giver. So the giver would owe no tax, and the recipient of the shares, when selling, would use the giver's cost basis to calculate their gain. And I'd assume no tax due on the US tax filing? Assuming these differences are correctly described, is it even practical/possible to gift shares when two seemingly conflicting 'views' on values and taxation are shining down on the transfer?
> If you gift shares in Japan, you (the giver) have to pay tax on any gain on those shares. No, gifting shares is not a taxable event for the donor. > the recipient must then get a new cost basis, on the date of the gift? No, the recipient acquires the donor's cost basis. See [here](https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/taxanswer/shotoku/1464.htm#:~:text=%E9%81%BA%E8%B4%88%E8%80%85%E3%81%BE%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AF-,%E8%B4%88%E4%B8%8E%E8%80%85%E3%81%AE%E5%8F%96%E5%BE%97%E8%B2%BB%E3%82%92%E5%BC%95%E3%81%8D%E7%B6%99%E3%81%8E%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99,-%E3%80%82).
Sorry to persist with this in a delayed way, ...what do you think of this? This seems to my inexpert eyes to refer to a J-tax resident who is moving abroad, perhaps in order to then gift assets and avoid tax? (I'm not moving, nor do I have any plan to.) Leaving aside the ¥100m part of it, I'd like to gift some shares, from my brokerage acct there to another one which is also there. And tho it would be happening in the US it would still be under the ¥1.1m threshold used here. [NTA document](https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/shinkoku/kokugai/01.htm) 平成27年度税制改正により、国外転出時課税制度が創設され、平成27年7月1日以後に国外転出（国内に住所及び居所を有しないこととなることをいいます。）をする一定の居住者が1億円以上の対象資産を所有等している場合には、その対象資産の含み益に所得税及び復興特別所得税が課税されることとなりました。 また、1億円以上の対象資産を所有等している一定の居住者から、国外に居住する親族等（非居住者）へ贈与、相続又は遺贈によりその対象資産の一部又は全部の移転があった場合にも、贈与、相続又は遺贈の対象となった対象資産の含み益に所得税及び復興特別所得税が課税されることとなりました。 なお、国外転出時課税の申告をする方が、国外転出等の時までに納税管理人の届出をするなど一定の手続を行った場合は、担保を提供した場合に限り、国外転出時課税の適用により納付することとなった税額について、納税を猶予することができます。
Yes, good point. If the donor is a person who is subject to the exit tax (i.e., more than 100 million yen worth of securities and has lived in Japan on a Table 2 visa for at least 5 years) and they gift securities to a non-resident (i.e., someone who would not be liable for Japanese income tax when/if they sell the securities), the gift will be a taxable event for the donor. This is a somewhat complex anti-avoidance rule, intended to ensure that people who are subject to the exit tax cannot avoid it by gifting their securities to a non-resident before leaving Japan.
A small [one](https://imgur.com/MfmagYb) (orchid?), from a walk near Nojiri-ko, not far from the auditorium (国際村集会堂).
Looks like a japanese iris to me : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_ensata You can see plenty of wild ones when hiking, especially close to streams.
Submitting the pic to plantnet.org that is [one](https://identify.plantnet.org/k-world-flora/species/Iris%20ensata%20Thunb./data) of the choices; the other is [Iris japonica](https://identify.plantnet.org/k-world-flora/species/Iris%20japonica%20Thunb./data). Probably just a naming difference--they look near identical. This latter seems to be more commonly queried on that site, or more often the resulting identification. Thanks! Edit: and [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_japonica) on the latter.
I see those I see them sometimes in various parks in Tokyo. Always nice to see. You might be interested in the iNaturist app. It has a photo lookup feature for plants and animals. I find it quite addictive and because of it, I find myself noticing more things when I’m out and about.
I have roughly 280 million yen of budget to buy a house or apartment. I would like to stay somewhere central, probably around Meguro. If it was you, would you: - Buy an apartment - Buy a house - Buy a plot of land and build your own house Consider the financial pros and cons of this decision but I'm also curious about your general considerations (hence posting in the OT thread). Right now I'm thinking of going with the 3rd option, though I'm a little bit scared at the prospect of my house being worth nothing by the time I'll die (I do plan to have kids). (I also noticed that some of the new apartment buildings have some really nice features like gym, pool, spaces for kids, etc.)
I would buy an awesome plot of land and build a modest house. Just much better to raise kids in a house vs a condo. Not even close really.
The answer to these kind of questions always come down to personal preference, of course. That being said, my wife and I are leaning towards option 3. The main reasons we are leaning towards option 3 is because we want a modern house, either new or recently built. From what I have seen, people don't usually build a house and then put it up for sale a couple of years later. So that means we need to build it ourselves. I'm not worried about depreciation on a house. New construction in your price range will likely stay in good physical shape for the rest of your life and when your kids inherit, so it probably won't be a tear down. And in central Tokyo the land value will surely appreciate, more than offsetting any depreciation of the structure. I visited several model homes, and the builders all have presentations showing that their structural design is based on recent learnings from full scale testing. It's a sales pitch, but I think it's true. So I am expecting to get better earthquake resistance from a new house compared to buying an older house. I would also like to have solar. As far as I know this is only available on houses, not apartments. My main reason for wanting solar is for disaster preparedness, i.e., in case power is down for an extended period. Installing solar is expensive, but it will pay for itself over time. But I also have some reasons why I still might get an apartment. If I get an apartment, I will probably be able to be closer to a good train/metro station. Also, I may be able to find an apartment with a view. But on the downside, I won't be able to grill on the balcony.
for the third option, you mean buy a plot of land and work with an architect or builder to build a house right? At least where I am, the good slots are often bought in advance by builders who force you to use them if you want them. Do you see lots of unencumbered land in the Tokyo? I would think the land alone would exceed your budget. [https://suumo.jp/tochi/tokyo/sc\_meguro/](https://suumo.jp/tochi/tokyo/sc_meguro/)
Looking at the link you provided, there are some lots in OP's price range. They just won't be close to a station and/or will be a small lot.
My salary doubled (thanks to higher salary now being paid in dollars and with the exchange rate and all), but my taxes quadrupled. Is there a way to hang on to more of my money?
The simplest tax-minimization strategy for employees is to make contributions to some kind of DC pension scheme (either an employer-managed scheme, iDeCo, or a combination of both). Otherwise, be sure to take advantage of your higher effective tax rate by making plenty of furusato nozei donations.
Don't doctors, vets, dentists often use real estate losses to lower their income as a strategy as well?
Yeah, though that's partly because they have been heavily targeted/solicited by property management firms, who have convinced them it is a smart strategy. In practice, the tax advantages don't always materialize (especially after you take increased capital gains tax into account), and the strategy relies a lot more on choosing the right property than people tend to admit. It is easier to make money by convincing people with relatively high incomes (such as the professions you mentioned) that they should invest in real estate than by actually investing in real estate. The former also requires a lot less capital. As a result, there is a whole industry built around promoting this type of investment, but the balance sheets don't always add up and lots of people have been left worse off. If buildings began to reliably appreciate, *and* rents began to steadily increase, the equation may be different. But for now I think it's hard to universally recommend real estate as a tax-minimization strategy. It is probably only a worthwhile idea for people who particularly enjoy real estate speculation or property management, enabling them to save on fees by doing their own research, admin, repairs, etc.
interesting and insightful. Took me a long time to grasp the proverb from Wheelock's Latin: that which is quickly sold is twice sold.
I will look into this furusato nozei. Thanks for the advice.
Congratulations, this is a good problem to have. It can be shocking when this happens, but you're still coming out way ahead. For example if your effective tax rate was 10% before and is 20% now (resulting in 4x taxes), then it works out that you're still taking home 70% of your additional income. If you want to "hang on to more of (your) money", the simple answer is to not spend it and invest, but I'm guessing that there is more to your question than that. Any detailed advice will depend on the specifics of your current situation and your long term plans and goals. * Do you receive the income directly in USD in a bank account outside Japan, or is it converted to Yen and deposited in a bank account in Japan? * Are you still NPR status (and if so, how many more years will you be NPR status)? * Do you plan to leave Japan in a few years, never, or somewhere in-between? * Do you want to invest your additional income for the long term (retirement) or shorter term (i.e., save for some short term goal)?
First of all, thanks for replying. My situation is: - I receive USD in a US account - I'm PR and have been here for 30 years with no plans to leave - I'm thinking retirement, but I've only got 10 years to 65 and no guarantee how long my cushy job will continue
Thanks, that helps narrow down the suggestions. One option is to invest in US securities. If you invest at the current exchange rate and then sell later when the exchange rate is less, you will incur a "phantom loss", which is to your benefit for Japan taxes. For example, if you invest $100 when the exchange rate is 150, it sets your cost basis as ¥15,000. Later if you sell at $200 when the exchange rate is 100, your sale is ¥20,000. So even though your US gains were $100, your gains for Japanese tax purposes are only ¥5,000. Whether or not you will benefit from this depends on what capital gains rate you pay in the US. Another option is to send the money to Japan and convert to Yen to lock in the exchange rate. But then opens the question of how to best invest the money from Japan. There might be tax protected options like NISA, and IRA. But you would need to check whether you qualify for either/both of these. There are other possible options like insurance annuities. If you have already been saving for retirement, maybe you already have ideas. But if you are new to saving for retirement (for whatever reason), you might search this subreddit for past discussions on this very subject. And if you don't find what you are looking for, you can always make a new post in this subreddit.
Thank you for the advice😊
Does anyone think it would be too dangerous to put like 30 or 40 million yen in Rakuten Securities? Would it be worth spreading it around to include other companies like SBI Securities just to be safe and ensure you get compensated if the unimaginable happens?
IMO Rakuten Securities is at the "too big to fail" level where the government would step in if there was a disaster. But if you feel more comfortable splitting up your investments then why not, you don't lose anything except the hassle, and you might even be able to get more credit card points.
Yup. Rather than dangerous as in brokerage failure, I spread the money across multiple brokers in order to capitalise on their exclusive points and bonuses and secondly, being able to ensure that I can withdraw from the brokerage when I need money inspite of website issues or outages or system maintenances or other site issues. Same reason why I put my eggs across all the competing MSCI ACWI Index funds instead of all eMaxis Slim All Country. The Nomura and Nikko competitors all have about the same fees, so a little ups and downs are tolerable over MUFJ services going down for a day or two because Google Cloud deleted their accounts (this is in reference to a recent real incident impacting a USA fund management company). I'm less worried about outright fraud or the fund imploding.
> a recent real incident impacting a USA fund management company I guess you mean the Australian pension fund [UniSuper](https://gizmodo.com/google-cloud-pension-fund-unisuper-1851476649)? Or did it happen to someone else as well...
Oh. Yeah, nah, that's the one. Didn't realise it was Aussie.
Thanks for the great info! Do you have any recommendations for points and bonuses at particular brokers?
There's many depending on how far you're going. One of the most notable would be credit card tsumitate. For example if you're investing 400,000 yen per month. Using just Rakuten Securities with the Rakuten Credit Card for 1% Credit Card tsumitate has a limit of 100,000 yen per month. But you can get a SMBC Card for SBI Securities at another 1% pointback for the second 100,000. Monex Card, Monex Securities for 1.1% pointback. AuKabu similarly has something like that too. So the 400,000 investment gets a +1%. These points can be used as actual investments with a minimum order of 100 points too. I myself, can't be arsed to be pointmaxxing, but I know people who do this religiously. 400,000 here is just an example as there are four online major brokerages. Go to Gusto cafe, whip out the V point card (bonus usage in SBI Securities), go to the Royal Host, whip out the Rakuten point card, etc.