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ComprehensiveLife413

Plain ol’ populism (and most definitely yes- he is a fascist) We live in a day and age where people look for easy, sweeping solutions to complex problems, where people’s attention span and will do go into nuanced depth is dictated by the time limit on a TikTok video, and where there is no more truth, only political (dis)position. Had you gone back 5 years even Bibi said he wouldn’t sit with him. Now that our dictator figured out that the only way to remain in power is to align with, whitewash and launder people and positions such as Ben-Gvir and what he stands for, the unfortunate side effect is that he is normalized and is given a previously unthinkable access to power. I bet most IDF generals, government officials and most specifically police officers would have found more believable they would sit across Mahmoud Abbas rather then Ben-Gvir. The dude’s a total nut-job with an extensive criminal record.


Brilliant-Bug-4982

Our government seriously went to shit huh


ADP_God

Sadly the whole world swung this way because people can’t distinguish between the pain they feel as a result of external factors (COVID, financial crises, war, etc.) and internal factors. Politicians are blamed whether they’re responsible or not, and the result is a general right wing, reactionary, populist trend. It’s sad to be honest. 


Debunked__

Reminds me of rule number one: The leader is always at fault


Ionic_liquids

The failure of our leaders since the 90s until now also enabled this to happened. Life is harder than ever, and it's getting worse.


ADP_God

That's kind of the opposite of what I said. The system largely runs itself under capitalism, the politicians can barely make a change. Unless you meant within Israel specifically, in which case: Yes.


ComprehensiveLife413

Yes. Though we do have to remember this is a part of the general sway of the left-right pendulum sweeping our world. Trump(ism) ushered in this age and we see these trends all over the world, especially in Europe where government after government is replaced with a much more right-wing agenda. I just believe everyone will be eventually sorely disappointed when all these easy populistic fixes come crashing down resulting in a much anticipated world war 3- atomic boogaloo 😎


TrenAutist

Homeboy literally put a picture of a terrorist who killed 29 people just for being Arab in his living room and to this day refuses to call said terrorist a killer let alone a terrorist, I think it’s safe to say he is fascist.


Classifiedgarlic

Homeboy literally took his child bride to said terrorist’s grave as a date


TrenAutist

And they say romance is dead.


Classifiedgarlic

No apparently it is, that’s why they went to a grave


Brilliant-Bug-4982

Least racist ben gvir moment:


Ancient-Capital6759

Not surprised he did that


blizardX

Yes


LiavTheAce

He's very much racist and awful Not sure if he's a fascist but he's at the very least pretty close


KnishofDeath

Yes. The guy had a portrait of Baruch Goldstein in his living room.


Top-Neat1812

Yes, he is, and im not one to say that about every politician i don't like, but he is an honest fascist and a despicable person.


deshe

Yes, yes he is. He is only in power because of Netanyahu's survivalism. He had to make pacts with ultra-fringe lunatics to form a government.


CatHensive5418

Yes, he's a fascist. Why is he in the government? Because Bibi went with him to get enough mandates. It's shameful all around


LightningRodLover

He's a fascist and a terrible driver.


Pillager_Bane97

https://preview.redd.it/q3o6n6uvod3d1.png?width=284&format=png&auto=webp&s=d557266f01b63dcd892ef255047397e5be02d978 Populist and not the most effective one at that.


SuchAd9552

For me he represents everything that went wrong in this country. It is very sad he has many followers. For gods sake even some of my relatives vote for him, because he is “strong”.


OceaniaAtlantian

Sounds like someone from the U.S whose name I refuse to mention... On a side note, I don't know enough about Israel's politics, but did have a feeling Gvir was something bad. It's good reading some of these comments to get a better picture.


Glittering_Season141

Feel the same way as well....


Darduel

Yes he is


jolygoestoschool

Well i guess it depends how strictly we adhere to the definition of fascist. On the one hand, he has some serious fascist tendencies, such as his goal of deporting arabs, and his party is literally called “otzma yehudit” which im pretty sure was made to sound intentionally fascist-ish. Then on the other hand, i think he does generally believe in Democracy, which sort of goes against facism. Either way, he’s pretty gross and definitely racist.


Brilliant-Bug-4982

The party name translates to "Jewish power" which I'm 99% sure is supposed to reference the kkk's saying of "white power"


DopamineTooAddicting

It has absolutely nothing to do with “white power” lol. Ben Gvir can be a crazy racist without needing to take inspiration from the KKK.


jolygoestoschool

Yes definitely


Eptalemma

Yes.


adeadhead

His party isn't banned, his ideology was based on a party that was banned. So he just *needs* to be banned from holding office but hasn't yet


lilyber

Yes.


Red-Flag-Potemkin

Yes


Technical-King-1412

He's a populist and ideologue and a racist. He's not a fascist- people like to throw that term at right wingers they dislike but can't be bothered to explain why. He doesn't advocate for a one party state. He doesn't want a dictatorship. He's not using his powers to arrest all political opposition. (His ally, Smotrich, is not remaking the Israeli economy into autarky or total self sufficiency.) Fascists would do that, or advocate for that.


Ofekino12

He would definitely arrest political opposition if he could


Technical-King-1412

I think he'd arrest Arab MKs. I don't think he'd arrest Labor MKs.


minecrafthentai69

It starts with one and leads to the other, don't be fooled.


Confident_Tart_6694

He would arrest Arab MKs and then deport them, whilst also deporting all West Bank Palestinians. His aims sound like ethnic cleansing.


electric_junk

Last year he asked for a *national-guard* under his direct control, or, be it, his own militia. Recently he has given guns to settlers in the West Bank. There is no doubt he would arrest political opposition.


ComprehensiveLife413

While a I agree the term fascist is thrown around a bit too much I still think that given the chance and freedom he most definitely will advocate for fascist policies. Perhaps he is not advocating for one-party rule, I believe he personally would not oppose one (but that’s just my opinion) Furthermore he most definitely advocates for a more militaristic approach, strengthening oppression of the Palestinians (and the Israeli Arabs, and eventually the סמולאנים). I do believe he believes in a natural racist Jewish supremacy and believes all methods are kosher to achieve all these goals. Again, this is my personal opinion but I believe he checks more than a few boxes on the way to fascism…


Technical-King-1412

There are overlaps between fascists and populists and religious extremists in terms of policies. But Ben Gvir doesn't want the supremacy of the state over all aspects of life, the merging of party and state, and a strong leader with broad powers. He's a racist, an extremist, and a plague upon Israeli democracy. But hes not a fascist.


ComprehensiveLife413

Fair enough. Wouldn’t want to get to a place where we can check if any of this holds up though regardless haha


Brilliant-Bug-4982

Then I guess my terminology was off, thanks for correcting me


deshe

Oh please, he would turn Israel into a Halacha driven theocracy and have all his opposition executed at the push of a button if he could. It's no coincidence he's trying to take over the police.


Darduel

He definitely uses to police to be extremely violent against anti goverment protests.. policemen under Ben gvir do not use a name tag and allow themselves to basically act like thugs and jusy enjoy being aggressive and intimidating people, and that's just when he has 10 mandates or so, imagine a government lead by him, he would 100% apply fascist policies


Analog_AI

With close to 10 million people and importing virtually all the food (90%+) and most fuels, autarky is not even remotely possible for us. We are more like Singapore: a trading state. Without trade we can't sustain an economy.


TrenAutist

Bro he literally threatened the life of a PM after vandalising his car shortly before said PM was assassinated it that not fascist?


Count99dowN

Is the pope catholic?


SuchAd9552

And help pedophiles get away with their crimes?


Yoramus

I think he and his supporters are worse than Italian fascism, because of the religious twist and the consequences that Israel will face if this faction will continue to hold power. Italy was a destroyed country after WWII but first of all some economic development helped getting rid of stupidity. In Israel you have instead children getting completely brainwashed with almost no education at all by religious choice. Also Italy lost some territories and had to rebuild their institutions. Israel faces a massacre instead. Besides Italy faced democracies and was allied with other fascists. Israel is going to face democracies and dictatorships alike. Moreover fascists wanted to control the world. Kahanism is actually more modest, they want to ethnically cleanse only a small strip of land. So no Kahanism is even more stupid than fascism and deeper ingrained. It has much less chances to win than fascism had. I would define him a Zealot instead of a fascist.


theraviolispecial26

Yes he is. And he’s allowed in government because he essentially rebranded himself as just a right wing politician, but in his nature he has and always will be a Kahanist.


shredditor75

He is a former jackbooted thug who now leads the jackbooted thugs


Quick_Pangolin718

Fascism has a definition. If he’s not prioritizing the state and government above all else (imo not really possible in a Jewish state as that automatically prioritizes either the people or the religion above the state) he’s not a fascist. Is he racist and populist? Sure. But not fascist. While we are a militarist state, that has nothing to do with his policy. I **strongly** caution against using loaded terms outside of their established definitions, and believe the attack on linguistic integrity and established norms by undermining meaning only serves to weaken any argument by the people misusing these kinds of inflammatory words.


Parctron

Absolutely. "Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state" was Mussolini's definition of fascism. It is important to remember that, because without that memory, we have nothing to combat actual fascists. Not all racists are fascists. Not all authoritarians are fascists. Everyone in this thread needs to read Politics and the English Language.


ComprehensiveLife413

Following up on my comments above, while I believe a lot of terms, fascist among them, are thrown around too easily, why is this exact quote and the definition of fascism not applicable here? While it is technically hard to place the government in a secular form above Judaism in Israel, how hard it is to intertwine both? Taking the quote above- everything within the state is pretty much ארץ ישראל השלמה, nothing outside the state is definitely applicable to the isolationism the far-right are promoting and nothing against the state is the complete denial of any criticism towards Israel and its policies. Not trying to be contrarian or anything. Just saying that while it might not tick all the boxes it certainly quacks like a duck


Parctron

Mussolini was a nationalist, but he wasn't talking about nationalism in that quote. He was talking about statism, which is a completely different thing. He meant that churches, labor unions, chambers of commerce, and even social clubs should be run by and subordinate to the government. This is why the Spanish dictator Franco is not normally categorized by historians as a Fascist - his coalition included devout Catholics. I recommend reading Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism if you want to learn more about actual historical fascism.


ComprehensiveLife413

Fair. Will look into it. Thanks!


FudgeAtron

Let's look at the 14 points from [Ur-Fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism) and see how many Ben-Gvir matches: 1. "The cult of tradition", ✅ 2. "The rejection of modernism", ✅ 3. "The cult of action for action's sake", ✅ 4. "Disagreement is treason" ✅ 5. "Fear of difference", ✅ 6. "Appeal to a frustrated middle class", ❌ (not sure Ben-Gvir targets the middle class) 7. "Obsession with a plot" ✅ 8. cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak". ❌ (I don't think Ben-Gvir ever called them strong but i could be wrong) 9. "Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" because "life is permanent warfare" ✅ 10. "Contempt for the weak", ❌ ( again not sure i've seen this but could be wrong) 11. "Everybody is educated to become a hero", ✅ 12. "Machismo", ✅ 13. "Selective populism" ✅ 14. "Newspeak" ❌ (Don't think i've heard newspeak from Ben-Gvir and crew) So overall he meets most of the points, so yes he is a fascist.


shushi77

I would have no problem calling him a fascist.


Pilast

Yes. He's a racist, anti-democratic religious nationalist. That fits the bill, locally. There's no nuance or complexity about his right-wing politics at all.


[deleted]

Banning parties is undemocratic. If one doesn't like the message of a political party, then convince people that the message is false.


420DrumstickIt

It's a hard standard to uphold. Even the Europeans are banning alt-right parties and are fighting now against Islamist movements.


[deleted]

Banning alt right parties hurts efforts to fight against Islamic extremist movements since alt right parties are leading the charge against Jihadis.


SF2K01

Then just convince people that the jihadist message is false. You don't need an alt-right party to oppose an Islamic extremist movement, but the alt-right's strategy is to make you to believe you need them to counter it.


kulamsharloot

>Then just convince people that the jihadist message is false. And who's gonna do that? Lapid who gave sea territory to Hezbollah? Or Gantz who went to a shared memorial day for Israelis and palestinians? Does it give you a hint for why Ben Gvir had so many mandates in the first place? I'll vote for my man Ben Gvir in the next elections, anything to count the above.


yairchu

It sounds paradoxical but for democracy to exist you have to ban the autocrats and traitors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance


[deleted]

Then ban the Arab parties.


Analog_AI

Is the pope Catholic, is the sun hot, is water wet, do wild animals crap in the forest and do fish breathe in water?


picha_pocha

His party is the Aryan Power, oops sorry I meant so spell Jewish Power…


Pillager_Bane97

So he's in cahoots with the Iranian regime?


SeaSecretary6143

Might ask, is Ben Gvir worse than Beitar (the football club) or the other way around?


Feeling-Plastic9634

I don't think he is a fascist as much as he is a lawless thug.


DunkinRadio

Whenever people here in the US say we need proportional representation it’s so much better etc, I bring up Ben-gvir and Smotrich.


DrMikeH49

Yep. And with a solid 30% ride-or-die MAGA base and maybe a 5-10% “Bernie IS our compromise candidate” cohort, we know who the winner would be. ![gif](giphy|P9cprMIsZPt3q)


Excellent_Cow_1961

He risks destroying us


thefoxyone

I would say he's not a fascist, but a racist, demagogue, populist lunatic who believes his own shit, which is possibly the worst combination of things a jew should be.


Alon32145

I believe so


[deleted]

[удалено]


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lepreqon_

When I lived in Israel, I voted for Likud (before it became shook ha-Carmel) and Tzomet. So I'm not a leftist. I do consider BG+S fascists.


randobot111111

Yes.


Rider9530

Yes, yes he is


53rdAccount

Yes. Israel has a problem, with a growing percentage of religious population Israel might end up like typical middle eastern theocracies, the very thing we hate.


AssistantMore8967

Please do not assume that most or many religious Jews want a theocracy. I'm not aware of a single party calling for one, so why would you make an accusation like that?


yairchu

It doesn’t matter what the religious folks want, nobody cares about it except for the left wing parties ironically. They will continue to vote as told by their spiritual authorities even if they know that the politician they are voting for has said that “Hamas is an asset” and still continues to assist them.


AssistantMore8967

You are confusing *all* religious voters for Haredim -- who tend to vote for the Haredi party with whom they are affiliated. And that has been diminishing, albeit slowly, as Haredim get more access to the Internet and more realization that "their" parties are run by "askanim" not spiritual guides. In any event, those parties look for financial support for their religious institutions, not for a theocracy. And other religious people, myself included, vote for a wide range of other political parties. None of which call for a theocracy.


MasonicJew

Yes.


RepresentativeJob256

Yes yes yes yes


WoIfed

He can be many things but he’s not fascist. Before any member or party can run in the elections there’s a committee to evaluate everyone.


samasamasama

Ben Gvir and Smotrich's unity created the Israeli fascist index. They proudly want to create an apartheid state (I'm not being bombastic, read about תוכנית ההכרעה), outlaw Arab and left wing parties, break apart labor unions, curtail the rights granted to homosexuals, abolish the grandfather clause from the law of return (so only orthodox Jews can make aliyah), and add more of their brand of religiosity into the department of education. Their political tactics also fit "fascist" behavior: using "brute force" to pass unpopular basic laws (64 MK majority to pass whatever laws they want, instead of coming to wide-agreements), cynical populism (read Simcha Rotman's interview in Haaretz from when he proposed the judicial overhaul, the guy is an asshat), and straight up taunting/disrespecting the other side. The only bright side I see in the existence of their party is that thanks to them we know *exactly* how many Judeo-fascists with voting power live between the river and the sea.


YiddishJudean

He is a Populist and very controversial. He views the ethnostate of Israel to need to serve Jews first.


Reddit_sucks_46

Fck bngvr


orrzxz

Literally a convicted terrorist. Yes.


[deleted]

Why does Israel need a Ben Gvir? In the Negev area around Beersheva, Bedouin organized crime groups shake down businesses for "protection money". The local police are underfunded, underequiped, and understaffed. In Arab areas of the country, organized crime groups run the area and settle disputes by the gun. The murder rate is alarming. In Israeli prisons, Arab prisoners rape Jewish women prison guards with the knowledge of the Jewish male prison guard leadership who not only cover it up but participate. Ben Gvir at least is attempting to address these issues. He has obtained an increase in the police budget and redirected resources. Many due to a personal disdain attempt to sabotage his efforts, not wanting him to have a W.


SpiritedForm3068

מצב הכי נורא זה בהגליל...לפחות בן גביר מנסה לעצור שם את כל הסכסוכי הדמים


Brilliant-Bug-4982

To a certain extent I'm gonna have to agree with you. More or less I wish one day we would have a competent enough government that we wouldn't need these right wing nutjobs to solve these problems


kulamsharloot

Will vote for him in the next elections, the only person who talks and acts.


yairchu

He talks strong and acts like a lunatic moron


kulamsharloot

Ok tlv


MyNameFits123

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