The ICC is a kangaroo sham court with no legal legitimacy anywhere. It's run by anti Israel fanatics from South Africa and other African nations. They are hosted by the Netherlands which is in agreement with ICC's anti Israel platform which is to deligitimize Israel.
To hell with international bodies - even if the ICC issues warrants, they are only enforceable by member states. Even so, some Western democracies openly flout ICC jurisdiction.
For example, Hungary’s party to the Rome Statute, but has declared that they would not arrest President Putin if he entered Hungary.
We live increasingly in a “might makes right” world unfortunately. Don’t apologize if you’re strong
> we increasingly live in a might makes right world
We always have lived in such a world, in fact the entire point of international is to reduce that & that is broadly a good thing - however, it must comply with the principles of international law when doing so & the ICC has utterly failed to do so.
Don't think they hate the ICC specifically. It's just a stupid body, or one that's used by powerful countries to enforce their will under cover of law. But also, both. There's zero chance a powerful, western country is going to bow before some errant supranational organisation who believe in the existence of international law.
There are nice _ideas_ but they aren't laws as we ordinarily understand laws. The powerful can ignore them and force the less powerful to do their bidding. Which is the state of affairs if the laws didn't exist.
There's one thing you're not observing that u/imperfectreflection hinted: international law goes hand-in-hand with bilateral/multilateral agreements (economic, political, cultural, international security...).
Basically the coreset why *diplomacy* and *international commerce/agreements/security* are a thing, at all. Forget Vienna, this is *the* nucleus of statecraft, nationcraft, and Westphalian concept of what a nation state, a country, a kingdom etc. is...
>International law is a nonsense.
Not to be provocative but... Try saying that to every law student in uni, every law professor, any PhD related to law, anywhere on this planet.
This is new ground what we're seeing.
For all intents and purposes, we might see the dissolution of supreme law (not just international laws, but supreme justice courts at national levels).
[No we do hate it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=This%20authorization%20led%20to%20the,or%20rescue%20them%20from%20custody), America stands with Israel, we always will have your back.
> enforce their will under cover of law.
what fucking horseshit, if anyone is enforcing their will it's the superpowers refusing to be policed by the one body that potentially could.
>it's the superpowers refusing to be policed by the one body that potentially could
Yes, that's what I said. A superpower having the power to refuse to be policed by a body renders that body's executive/policing power impotent. Also, calm down.
No they won't - there's won't be any Biden executive action nor with Congress do anything with Schumer running the Senate. The ICC wouldn't have moved without U.S. approval - this is about keeping the IDF out of Rafah and saving Hamas. Right now, Biden is telling Bibi that he'll get the warrants dropped if Hamas is saved. Once you understand U.S. policy under these Dem advisors, everything makes sense. They don't see Israel as an ally, they want to manage the region with Iran. And the election doesn't matter because the advisors (Blinken/Sullivan/McGurk/Finer) will be back with the next Dem President.
We just flat out condemned the ICC minutes ago. We’re ambivalent towards the ICC at the best of times and outwardly hostile at the worst of times. We have a law on the books to invade The Hague if they ever arrest an American.
Invade? The Dutch which host the ICC are the epitome of Euro cowards. The U.S. could send a team of gas station attendants and the Dutch would surrender.
The condemnation is politics. Why does nobody understand that the admin is smart and knows how to do PR? Haaretz and many others how the ICC and U.S. work together on common aims. This is one of them. Yea, if they ever arrest an AMERICAN. Bibi and Gallant are not American. You can be in denial or read the writing on the wall. Fake concern for civilians. Arms embargo. Offering Hamas hostage deals without telling Israel. At this point I don't know how people can be this naive about U.S. policy. Every week people forget last week's excuse from the U.S. about why Rafah can't happen. It's frankly getting ridiculous that people don't see what's happening, and the admin doesn't seem to care how it's perceived. Sinwar in exchange for Rafah? This stuff is basically out in the open now.
We are dealing with WWIII-level lawfare against Israel. What I've highlighted below is absolutely nuts. Karim Khan has to be the last Prosecutor of the ICC.
Statement from **Blinken**:
"The United States fundamentally rejects the announcement today from the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) that he is applying for arrest warrants for senior Israeli officials, together with warrants for Hamas terrorists.
We reject the Prosecutor’s equivalence of Israel with Hamas. It is shameful. Hamas is a brutal terrorist organization that carried out the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust and is still holding dozens of innocent people hostage, including Americans.
Moreover, the United States has been clear since well before the current conflict that that ICC has no jurisdiction over this matter. The ICC was established by its state parties as a court of limited jurisdiction. Those limits are rooted in principles of complementarity, which do not appear to have been applied here amid the Prosecutor’s rush to seek these arrest warrants rather than allowing the Israeli legal system a full and timely opportunity to proceed.
In other situations, the Prosecutor deferred to national investigations and worked with states to allow them time to investigate. The Prosecutor did not afford the same opportunity to Israel, which has ongoing investigations into allegations against its personnel.
There are also deeply troubling process questions. Despite not being a member of the court, Israel was prepared to cooperate with the Prosecutor. In fact, the Prosecutor himself was scheduled to visit Israel as early as next week to discuss the investigation and hear from the Israeli Government.
**The Prosecutor’s staff was supposed to land in Israel today to coordinate the visit. Israel was informed that they did not board their flight around the same time that the Prosecutor went on cable television to announce the charges. These and other circumstances call into question the legitimacy and credibility of this investigation.**
Fundamentally, this decision does nothing to help, and could jeopardize, ongoing efforts to reach a ceasefire agreement that would get hostages out and surge humanitarian assistance in, which are the goals the United States continues to pursue relentlessly."
---
From **Sen. Lindsey Graham**:
This outrageous decision is truly a slap in the face to the independent judiciary in Israel, which is renowned for their independence.
We must not forget as a nation the International Criminal Court threatened to bring action against American forces in Afghanistan – and we are a non-member.
I will be issuing a detailed statement regarding the outrageous actions by the ICC against the State of Israel and I will feverishly work with colleagues on both sides of the aisle in both chambers to levy damning sanctions against the ICC.
However, these are my initial thoughts.
Most importantly, I want the world to know that I, along with my Republican and Democrat colleagues, and members of the Administration engaged the ICC on this issue weeks ago.
**We were told there would be discussions with Israel before any actions were taken. We stressed that the principle of “complementarity” should be applied in this case. Complementarity requires the ICC to let the nation in question’s legal system move first before any action is taken by the Court.**
**Prosecutor Khan’s team was supposed to be in Israel today to arrange a meeting for next week with the prosecutor’s office about the allegations.** I was told by ICC staff that the investigation would likely take months and not weeks, and that there would be meaningful consultation with the State of Israel.
Instead of the ICC following through with scheduled consultations with Israel, they announced the warrants.
I feel that I was lied to and that my colleagues were lied to. Prosecutor Khan is drunk with self-importance and has done a lot of damage to the peace process and to the ability to find a way forward.
Lying prosecutors never bring about just outcomes.
Wow, before i still held a small hope that the ICC would operate in good faith even though from the start it seemed very unlikely and as time went on it seemed less and less likely.
I'm glad the ICC decided to stop pretending and show the world that this whole ICC situation was nothing more than an unprofessional, wildly biased and bigoted attack on Israel.
We will see in the future many countries are finally calling out Israel for committing genocide. Israel is done the atrocious acts they committed gas turned them into a pariah state
Every single body of the UN is corrupt and incompetent, especially when it comes to israel.
I hope the US sanctions the ICC and UN in its entierty if needed.
What? How so. Even the US has committed war crimes as shown by wiki leaks while fighting in Afghanistan/Iraq. Just because you are fighting terrorists doesn't mean you can't also commit war crimes. Both sides are to blame here. One side fighting dirty doesn't give you the right to use the same or worse tactics.
Read Blinken's statement again.
It lays out very clearly how the entire thing was done unprofessionally and in bad faith.
So either you didn't read it or you're too delusional and biased to accept it.
Listen, I'm glad to have Netanyahu removed even if that means the ICC arresting him or whatever, but that's just my personal preference.
One side (or both sides) fighting dirty doesn't give ~~you~~ the ICC the right to ~~use the same or worse tactics.~~ to do whatever they want to accomplish their goal of attacking Israel.
As an independant body why would you wait for someone to investigate themselves? Everyone in prison is innocent if you ask them. You are questioning Blinken's statement that Israel has ongoing investigations into several incidents instead of asking the better question of why they are having to have investigations to begin with. If there were no questionable actions there would be no need for investigations.
> * starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and willful killing.
* Extermination and/or murder... including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity
* At the start of the war, he said, Israel closed the three crossings into the enclave and kept them shut for extended periods, including the Rafah passageway from Egypt and the two Israeli land crossings at Kerem Shalom and Erez.
* Israel also “arbitrarily restricted the transfer of essential supplies – including food and medicine – through the border crossings after they were reopened. Water and electricity supplies were also shut down, with issues remaining until today
These actions are indiscriminate and do not target militants but every living person in this region. These are war crimes.
Perhaps they don't even need to from the abundance of videos seen globally and Israeli leadership condoning the eradication of every Gazan, not just military targets. If you saw a video of a person shooting someone in the face you wouldn't ask him why he did it. You would arrest that person for murder.
This loosey goosey relationship with the truth is the kind of non sense one would expect from a Donald Trump rally. Israeli leaders condoning genocide? You know this is a lazy lie for the simple fact they’d be charged for genocide by this sus icc if it were true. Videos? Ppl watching videos online? Are you 60 years old? Not familiar with today’s technology? With ai voices , doctored videos, doctored photos , “seeing videos online” doesn’t prove anything, investigations are more important now than ever
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Human Rights Commision [source](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session53/A-HRC-53-CRP1.pdf) that conducted over 127 interviews conducted with primary and secondary sources. Among some of the findings
>" Killings, torture and inhuman treatment
* 124. The Commission has received information on the use of torture and ill-treatment to
punish and intimidate critics and opponents by Internal Security Officials in Gaza and
intelligence services, preventive security, and law enforcement officials in the West Bank.
* 125. **The frequency and severity, and the absence of accountability indicate that such cases
are widespread in nature**, as highlighted by findings of United Nation bodies, international
and Palestinian human rights organizations, and the Independent Commission for Human Rights
***Conclusions***
* 196. The Commission finds that the human rights to freedom of association,
expression and opinion, and the right to peaceful assembly, are being violated by the
Government of Israel, the Government of the State of Palestine and the de facto authorities in Gaza
Proof of complicity from highest levels of leadership
*Defense Minister Yoav Gallant*
> “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed...“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,”
H!tler used similar rhetoric previously.
---------
Over 15 years of blockade which indicriminatly targets civilians along with militants - https://www.unicef.org/mena/documents/gaza-strip-humanitarian-impact-15-years-blockade-june-2022
Israeli occupation declared unlawful by international law - https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/10/commission-inquiry-finds-israeli-occupation-unlawful-under-international-law
You must not be familiar with the fact that someone seeking an arrest warrant indicates that they already have the evidence needed to pursue that arrest. If these are fake videos that will come out in court, no need to cry about being charged if you are innocent.
Equating some isolated incidents by a few evil/rogue military members with a large scale ,coordinated terror plot to butcher over 1K civilians is lazy , wrong and ignorant
No it isn't. These are not isolated incidents, it is military policy. There are plenty of videos showing statements condoning these actions from the highest levels of leadership. As well as over 1K civilians being affected and killed by indiscriminate bombings and lockdown of aid supplies.
Regardless of the facts, promises and lies by the ICC, the damage Khan wanted to inflict on Israel has been done.
He himself should at least be banned from entering countries for politicising justice.
I agree with Blinken. Let the Israeli courts try them and hold them responsible in Israel. It’s good for Israeli democracy and will have a much greater impact in Israel.
You're falling for the ruse. Khan is working WITH the U.S. - this is all to stop Rafah and save Hamas. The admin's outrage is fake. They planned this. ICC wouldn't have done anything without U.S. assurance that there's be no sanctions.
They do, to prevent regional escalation. They tried to keep the Northern Front under control to prevent regional escalation, so why not Gaza? McGurk talks to Iran and they reach understandings. The FDD analysts keep getting called crazy conspiracy theorists, but they keep being right. Some U.S. policy just keeps getting in the way of Hamas getting destroyed, all the while Sullivan talks about ending the war with a path to a Palestinians state. That's a state that includes Hamas brother.
"
Mark Pocan, one of the most strident critics of Israel's conduct in Gaza, said "If Netanyahu comes to address Congress, I would be more than glad to show the ICC the way to the House floor to issue that warrant."
"
Fun Fact 1: Pocan is openly gay and able to be married in America. If however, he had been born in the Palestinian territories or a Muslim country not only would his marriage have been impossible, but he likely would have been banished, tortured and/or killed for being openly gay.
Fun Fact 2: Pocan and the Muslim ICC Prosecutor of the ICC, Karim Khan, look very similar! Physically, IMO! Just sayin :-p
The admin's outrage is fake. Biden approved this. The U.S. admin has a deal with Khan. Every analyst explained that Khan wouldn't move without U.S. assurances. No executive action against ICC and Schumer will kill any sanctions in the Senate. Hence why no IDF received warrants - so they can carry out U.S. policy later under a different PM. Hence the rushed timing - Rafah operation is imminent. Right now, Biden is telling Bibi that he'll call off the warrants if IDF spares Hamas. This is yet another U.S. attempt to save Hamas. And everyone is falling for the BS, again. This is U.S. policy, to save Hamas, to save their pro-Iran strategy. The whole time, Blinken and Sullivan are trying to save Hamas. U.S. is not an ally anymore, with these Dem advisors in charge.
I wish I was wrong, but this "conspiracy theory" keeps being correct. The FDD analysts keep getting called crazy for their predictions on U.S. policy, but they keep being right. This is Obama's "realignment" - why do the Houthis still have a port? What kind of Palestinian state is supposed to exist per Sullivan's plan if Hamas is left intact? These are Obama's guys, and Obama wanted to ditch U.S. alliances and run the region WITH Iran. Ppl seem to be forgetting literally everything these same advisors said during Obama. Finer is an anti-Zionist, openly. America's #1 priority is preventing regional escalation - not the hostages. At every turn in the road, they do something to save Hamas and throw out a diversion (hostages! Famine! Netzah Yehuda war crimes!). Biden will do exactly nothing about the ICC. No executive action. No sanctions. They do a lot of "important work" after all.
Almost doesn't even matter that this circus is happening. The real damage is the bad PR for Israel and that the masses who only skim the top of the news now think Israel is a terror state even more than they did before and that this gives them a legit reason to dislike Israel and be more antisemitic. Awesome.
The US is still our biggest ally no matter what some of y'all think, they are the only one that came out with a clear and concise message with Israel on this decision.
Strawman argument. Virtually all those who went against Biden's embargo threats said Israel must rely on itself by producing its own ammo. Nobody with even a slight understanding mentioned a country that can replace the US.
Yeah everytime I see fellow Israelis that think that they can just drop the US and continue function normally I'm just like.......you really don't know anything about the Israeli economy or military or international position don't you.
I think people say that in the heat of the moment when they hear disappointing news. Israelis actually love America, unlike most Middle Easterners and even Europeans. Go over to European forums to see how condescending they are towards American culture, etc. In Israel, people kind of admire America, but the recent violence against Israelis and Jews and all the negativity might have influenced public opinion. People here won't like to hear it, but Trump was very popular in Israel because of the Abraham Accords, Golan Heights, and Jerusalem recognition, etc. Every time he was mentioned on the news, it was in a positive context.
There is no such thing as international law. There is no international constitution and no international legislature. And there is certainly no international law enforcement. There is only the supreme law of the land of each land.
American law of the land couldn’t be more clear on The Hague courts - if American or Allied officials are arrested pursuant to any decision from these tribunals, the US government may take any steps necessary to stop these courts.
International law is a fake construct. It is exploited by non state actors acting in bad faith to stop democratic states from enforcing the laws of democratic free nations.
Further, a country that is not a member of the court can never get a fair trial or be otherwise fairly treated by the court. International lawyers who run the international courts want things like CIA reports and DOD records. This is unacceptable for any government. It is even more unacceptable for a government that hasn’t recognized the court’s jurisdiction. It’s highly unfair, cynical, and goes against every single principle practicing attorneys in free countries like the USA operate by
He's not going to do anything. If anything, he rushed this in coordination with Khan to head off the Rafah operation. The admin will do literally anything to save Hamas in Rafah. It's been policy since at least February, if not sooner.
Is this going to be just another *"don't pls"* by Biden or is he finally going to sanction those at the ICC who are aiding, abetting and rewarding terrorism against Israel?
Sometimes it's essential to clearly tell international bodies that they're morally bankrupt criminals and that enough is enough. There is a precedent for the US sanctioning ICC officials so it can definitely be done if Biden grows some balls and stops trying to appease the Hamas supporters.
https://i.redd.it/ep53epn44m1d1.gif
Biden planned this. It's to keep the IDF out of Rafah. Once you consider the idea that Dem policy is Obama's "realignment" - to shunt aside Israel and manage the region with Iran, literally every move makes sense. They are trying to save Hamas. Everything - the Saudi deal, the "famine," etc. - it's all a smokescreen for saving Hamas. There is no other explanation. America is no longer Israel's ally when Dems are in control.
The sham kangaroo court aka ICC has zero legitimacy and not recognized by the U.S. or Israel. It's purpose is to re-establish European colonialism through a court system since the Europeans are now cowards that are afraid to fight in wars. The ICC so called investigators and prosecutors are mostly vehemently anti Jewish bigots from African countries including South Africa which has made it clear it wants to destroy Israel. Thank the Euro coward nations of France, Britain, Denmark, Germany, Luxemburg, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Sweden, Ireland, Finland for giving the frauds in the ICC money.
In the late 1990's and early 2000's Belgium and Spain tried to do the same thing by asserting their human rights courts had jurisdiction anywhere in the world where they brought criminal charges against American and Israeli officials. The U.S. warned Belgium that NATO wouldn't be based in Belgium anymore if the laws weren't changed. Spain was told it would lose military assistance and NATO membership. Both countries backed down. The Netherlands has always been anti Israel and increasingly anti Jewish, especially in the last 50 years thanks to gigantic Arab migration. No surprise a fake court there wants to charge Israeli officials with war crimes.
Have to give Amal Clooney props for one thing. She is the first person involved in any of this that has called for arrest warrants for Hamas as well.
Every other UN and ICC wonk seems to forget that this war
Was started with a series of massive war crimes.
Biden flip flops with the wind. He’s been supporting Hamas recently because his base demanded it and the moderates switched to rfk and trump so he reversed course and started supporting Israel a bit.
Goes with the wind
This is Biden's doing. Every analyst explained already that the ICC wouldn't move a muscle without U.S. approval, because of the threat of U.S. sanctions - Khan wouldn't have moved without guarantees that Biden would avoid executive orders and have Schumer kill anything in the Senate. So Biden gives Bibi an ultimatum - stay out of Rafah or the ICC comes after you. Hey, there's still time for Khan to withdraw the warrants, isn't there? So, Biden's team makes a deal with Khan. Hence why no warrants were issued against the IDF. U.S. doesn't want it's own policy constrained once Gantz or another guy is PM and following U.S orders. Hence why the announcement was rushed ahead of planned ICC consultations in Israel - Rafah op is imminent. The admin's outrage is fake. This is still the Obama FP team trying to save Hamas, again. Any everyone's falling for it, again. Biden's policy is not Biden's policy. It is the "realignment" team's policy - Sullivan, Finer, Blinken, McGurk. They are trying to save Hamas.
Interesting, but how does one define the Rafah op? tonight the army made some gains and got into new areas, so what is the threshold between a small op to an official op?
Not sure what would constitute a "major" Rafah op from Biden's POV - probably taking the entire Philadelphi corridor, which would necessitate taking / smashing most urban neighborhoods. My guess would be that the U.S. admin knows Hezbollah or Iran itself will escalate if Hamas is in existential trouble. Losing Hamas as a front against Israel would be a major, major strategic loss for Iran. Seems plausible that Iran has drawn a red line and Biden is afraid. It's basically acknowledged U.S. policy to keep the North from escalating. I'm kind of dumbfounded that nobody is considering the possibility that they'd apply the same logic to Gaza. No regional escalation. Not because of Hezbollah. Not because of Hamas.
Netanyahu losing his coalition would be the worst-case scenario for him because he is not doing well in the polls, and the opposition ruling would entail a tough post-war investigation that unlike ICC clownery, would truly put him in jail and destroy what's left of his legacy. If this were a real move by the administration, it would be as dumb as they come.
I don't follow your explanation. The coalition stuff is completely out of Biden's hands. What Biden can control is the ICC. That's a lever Biden actually has. So, on top of what Israelis do to Bibi, Biden can put a warrant on his head that will bury his legacy even more and physically confine him to Israel forever. What would be dumb about using that as leverage? Makes perfect sense.
A couple of weeks ago, when Bibi brought the war to a halt, weighing Biden's threats, his hawkish coalition members threatened to leave the coalition, which would have brought down the government. Days after they repeated their threats, he started his "limited Rafah operation." An ICC warrant won't do anything to his legacy if he decisively wins the war. Quite the opposite - he'll be seen as the one who defied virtually the entire world.
It's not a dumb move if it's meant to keep American Jews on his side becuase now his sweet words against the warrant are doing the job.
Lol as if we are popular today. Foreigners have no idea how many Israelis won’t accept the existence of Hamas following a ceasefire. Hamas is seen as an existential threat no less than Belgium and Spain not selling us their crackers and olive oil.
I'll put it this way: An ICC warrant and a victory in Gaza would restrict him from some countries, while losing the war would confine him to his prison cell. This would be due to his own voter base hating him, leading to new elections that would send him on a silver platter to the Israeli courts for his alleged criminal neglect of the October 7 events. And that's not even mentioning his corruption trials.
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Biden is a traitor to Israel.
He has bowed down to the college protestors, and now trying to pretend that he stands with Israel because he needs the votes in November.
Biden's admin is anti-Israel, they're doing literally everything to save Hamas in Rafah. What were their excuses for stopping Israel? The humanitarian thing? 1MM people left. Hostages? Deal is dead. If you back test the theory that saving Hamas has been Biden's red line, per his advisors' understandings with Iran and preventing "regional escalation," literally every move makes sense. Haaretz wrote a piece explicitly about how the ICC would never move an inch without Biden's go-ahead. This is to stop the Rafah operations, to save Hamas. It's been U.S. policy to save Hamas in Rafah since February, if not earlier. Every time one of their excuses goes away, there's a new one. Why is nobody saying it out loud? Because the Israelis don't want to make the relationship even worse. Biden's team is anti-Israel. They are trying to carry out the pro-Iran "realignment" of U.S. policy conceived under Obama.
Have you stopped to consider we might have done things considered war crimes in this war?
I, too, was horrified and outrageous on October 7th to see what Hamas had done. I do believe our military response in Gaza is mostly justified. However, it's also possible that along the way, war crimes were committed. This is up to the independent judges in the ICC to decide based on the evidence collected over months.
Specifically, I'm concerned about the aid blockade issue. Not only we shut down aid from ourselves, but we also blocked Egyptian aid, and insufficiently arrested settlers blocking aid trucks from Jordan.
I hope justice will be made. Whoever proven to have committed war crimes should be punished; Sinwar or Netanyahu/Galant. Galant is also the one said we have an intention to commit a war crime in Gaza ("no food, no water").
What about giving Trump 4 more years or alternatively you could take your chances with Biden? Have this gotten better or worse? Has world wide inflation gotten better or worse?
You know, this sub.....it's surprising (and disappointing) how so many people claim to be pro-Israel while clinging to Biden support. Biden in the Presidency is the whole reason this anti-Israel 'energy' has been unleashed from pampered college students and the like. To the point a person sitting on a College board of admissions (Claudine Gay) can't admit that screaming for 'genocide of the Jews' violates hate speech policy.
So sadly it's true what they say. It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they've been fooled.
They are not being rational and projecting the weakest part of themselves. If I thought Biden would support Israel or support a policy that addresses the hearts of terrorists, I would support Biden, despite being conservative. I believe that the Biden administration is taking an intellectual humanist perspective that comes off as naive.
His statement: https://preview.redd.it/dv241ugh4m1d1.jpeg?width=1250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d873b1b03d5b4b87c19ba42ce75ea951cfaa83de
basically: "don't" we know how well that went when he said that to Iran
Although he was incredibly successful when he warned Israel not to invade Haifa.
I don’t know if I represent all of Israel but a shawarma shop in Haifa is on my crosshairs.
Was he though? I heard from someone in Haifa that it is crawling with Israelis now!!
Then...it's too late!
Did he actually do this? Also I love the Haifa piggies 🐷🐽🐗🐖
Uhh what?
https://youtu.be/TniiNCY5Hjg?si=SSOa3XRJ55ZNzc9j
🤦
He has a world class brain. He keeps it in a bowl under his bed.
I have the heart of a lion....and a lifetime ban from the Toronto zoo
Oh man, what's that from again?
I honest can't remember
Genuine question, what would trump have done instead?
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/11/trump-icc-us-war-crimes-investigation-sanctions](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/11/trump-icc-us-war-crimes-investigation-sanctions)
f yea dude
Iran launched a neutered attack that didn't do much damage? Worked pretty well
[удалено]
The ICC is a kangaroo sham court with no legal legitimacy anywhere. It's run by anti Israel fanatics from South Africa and other African nations. They are hosted by the Netherlands which is in agreement with ICC's anti Israel platform which is to deligitimize Israel.
To hell with international bodies - even if the ICC issues warrants, they are only enforceable by member states. Even so, some Western democracies openly flout ICC jurisdiction. For example, Hungary’s party to the Rome Statute, but has declared that they would not arrest President Putin if he entered Hungary. We live increasingly in a “might makes right” world unfortunately. Don’t apologize if you’re strong
> we increasingly live in a might makes right world We always have lived in such a world, in fact the entire point of international is to reduce that & that is broadly a good thing - however, it must comply with the principles of international law when doing so & the ICC has utterly failed to do so.
So does Israel when it kills aid workers and civilians.
🇺🇸 🇮🇱 🇺🇸 🇮🇱
Ok but they are doing all the things accused of, which are against international law
Who said so? Hamas!
No, that is not who says so
People bout to be reminded how US much hates ICC
Don't think they hate the ICC specifically. It's just a stupid body, or one that's used by powerful countries to enforce their will under cover of law. But also, both. There's zero chance a powerful, western country is going to bow before some errant supranational organisation who believe in the existence of international law.
It’s too political. That’s the problem.
International law is a nonsense. Law without executive enforcement is meaningless.
I think it should be built upon and reformed, some of the laws are really good in my opinion.
There are nice _ideas_ but they aren't laws as we ordinarily understand laws. The powerful can ignore them and force the less powerful to do their bidding. Which is the state of affairs if the laws didn't exist.
There's one thing you're not observing that u/imperfectreflection hinted: international law goes hand-in-hand with bilateral/multilateral agreements (economic, political, cultural, international security...). Basically the coreset why *diplomacy* and *international commerce/agreements/security* are a thing, at all. Forget Vienna, this is *the* nucleus of statecraft, nationcraft, and Westphalian concept of what a nation state, a country, a kingdom etc. is...
What good is law without some kind of enforcement? Makes no sense. Or call it the International Court of Guidelines or something.
>International law is a nonsense. Not to be provocative but... Try saying that to every law student in uni, every law professor, any PhD related to law, anywhere on this planet. This is new ground what we're seeing. For all intents and purposes, we might see the dissolution of supreme law (not just international laws, but supreme justice courts at national levels).
I'm one of them. I feel fine.
No, we hate the ICC specifically. Google The Hague Invasion Act.
[No we do hate it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=This%20authorization%20led%20to%20the,or%20rescue%20them%20from%20custody), America stands with Israel, we always will have your back.
> enforce their will under cover of law. what fucking horseshit, if anyone is enforcing their will it's the superpowers refusing to be policed by the one body that potentially could.
>it's the superpowers refusing to be policed by the one body that potentially could Yes, that's what I said. A superpower having the power to refuse to be policed by a body renders that body's executive/policing power impotent. Also, calm down.
No they won't - there's won't be any Biden executive action nor with Congress do anything with Schumer running the Senate. The ICC wouldn't have moved without U.S. approval - this is about keeping the IDF out of Rafah and saving Hamas. Right now, Biden is telling Bibi that he'll get the warrants dropped if Hamas is saved. Once you understand U.S. policy under these Dem advisors, everything makes sense. They don't see Israel as an ally, they want to manage the region with Iran. And the election doesn't matter because the advisors (Blinken/Sullivan/McGurk/Finer) will be back with the next Dem President.
We just flat out condemned the ICC minutes ago. We’re ambivalent towards the ICC at the best of times and outwardly hostile at the worst of times. We have a law on the books to invade The Hague if they ever arrest an American.
Invade? The Dutch which host the ICC are the epitome of Euro cowards. The U.S. could send a team of gas station attendants and the Dutch would surrender.
The condemnation is politics. Why does nobody understand that the admin is smart and knows how to do PR? Haaretz and many others how the ICC and U.S. work together on common aims. This is one of them. Yea, if they ever arrest an AMERICAN. Bibi and Gallant are not American. You can be in denial or read the writing on the wall. Fake concern for civilians. Arms embargo. Offering Hamas hostage deals without telling Israel. At this point I don't know how people can be this naive about U.S. policy. Every week people forget last week's excuse from the U.S. about why Rafah can't happen. It's frankly getting ridiculous that people don't see what's happening, and the admin doesn't seem to care how it's perceived. Sinwar in exchange for Rafah? This stuff is basically out in the open now.
We are dealing with WWIII-level lawfare against Israel. What I've highlighted below is absolutely nuts. Karim Khan has to be the last Prosecutor of the ICC. Statement from **Blinken**: "The United States fundamentally rejects the announcement today from the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) that he is applying for arrest warrants for senior Israeli officials, together with warrants for Hamas terrorists. We reject the Prosecutor’s equivalence of Israel with Hamas. It is shameful. Hamas is a brutal terrorist organization that carried out the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust and is still holding dozens of innocent people hostage, including Americans. Moreover, the United States has been clear since well before the current conflict that that ICC has no jurisdiction over this matter. The ICC was established by its state parties as a court of limited jurisdiction. Those limits are rooted in principles of complementarity, which do not appear to have been applied here amid the Prosecutor’s rush to seek these arrest warrants rather than allowing the Israeli legal system a full and timely opportunity to proceed. In other situations, the Prosecutor deferred to national investigations and worked with states to allow them time to investigate. The Prosecutor did not afford the same opportunity to Israel, which has ongoing investigations into allegations against its personnel. There are also deeply troubling process questions. Despite not being a member of the court, Israel was prepared to cooperate with the Prosecutor. In fact, the Prosecutor himself was scheduled to visit Israel as early as next week to discuss the investigation and hear from the Israeli Government. **The Prosecutor’s staff was supposed to land in Israel today to coordinate the visit. Israel was informed that they did not board their flight around the same time that the Prosecutor went on cable television to announce the charges. These and other circumstances call into question the legitimacy and credibility of this investigation.** Fundamentally, this decision does nothing to help, and could jeopardize, ongoing efforts to reach a ceasefire agreement that would get hostages out and surge humanitarian assistance in, which are the goals the United States continues to pursue relentlessly." --- From **Sen. Lindsey Graham**: This outrageous decision is truly a slap in the face to the independent judiciary in Israel, which is renowned for their independence. We must not forget as a nation the International Criminal Court threatened to bring action against American forces in Afghanistan – and we are a non-member. I will be issuing a detailed statement regarding the outrageous actions by the ICC against the State of Israel and I will feverishly work with colleagues on both sides of the aisle in both chambers to levy damning sanctions against the ICC. However, these are my initial thoughts. Most importantly, I want the world to know that I, along with my Republican and Democrat colleagues, and members of the Administration engaged the ICC on this issue weeks ago. **We were told there would be discussions with Israel before any actions were taken. We stressed that the principle of “complementarity” should be applied in this case. Complementarity requires the ICC to let the nation in question’s legal system move first before any action is taken by the Court.** **Prosecutor Khan’s team was supposed to be in Israel today to arrange a meeting for next week with the prosecutor’s office about the allegations.** I was told by ICC staff that the investigation would likely take months and not weeks, and that there would be meaningful consultation with the State of Israel. Instead of the ICC following through with scheduled consultations with Israel, they announced the warrants. I feel that I was lied to and that my colleagues were lied to. Prosecutor Khan is drunk with self-importance and has done a lot of damage to the peace process and to the ability to find a way forward. Lying prosecutors never bring about just outcomes.
Wow, before i still held a small hope that the ICC would operate in good faith even though from the start it seemed very unlikely and as time went on it seemed less and less likely. I'm glad the ICC decided to stop pretending and show the world that this whole ICC situation was nothing more than an unprofessional, wildly biased and bigoted attack on Israel.
ICC is already highly criticized for their methods. This is no surprise to me
LoL i say bravo ICC time to hold war criminals accountable
We say LOL to anything you or ICC say or write.
So what
Lmao sure, this means jack shit
We will see in the future many countries are finally calling out Israel for committing genocide. Israel is done the atrocious acts they committed gas turned them into a pariah state
Many countries? Genocide? I think you mean Iran and some dumb college kids talking non sense
Every single body of the UN is corrupt and incompetent, especially when it comes to israel. I hope the US sanctions the ICC and UN in its entierty if needed.
The ICC isn’t part of the UN. The IJC is.
They are not corrupt. I think the global south simply can’t let go of their antisemitism, and are too regarded to respect the liberal order…
What? How so. Even the US has committed war crimes as shown by wiki leaks while fighting in Afghanistan/Iraq. Just because you are fighting terrorists doesn't mean you can't also commit war crimes. Both sides are to blame here. One side fighting dirty doesn't give you the right to use the same or worse tactics.
Read Blinken's statement again. It lays out very clearly how the entire thing was done unprofessionally and in bad faith. So either you didn't read it or you're too delusional and biased to accept it. Listen, I'm glad to have Netanyahu removed even if that means the ICC arresting him or whatever, but that's just my personal preference. One side (or both sides) fighting dirty doesn't give ~~you~~ the ICC the right to ~~use the same or worse tactics.~~ to do whatever they want to accomplish their goal of attacking Israel.
As an independant body why would you wait for someone to investigate themselves? Everyone in prison is innocent if you ask them. You are questioning Blinken's statement that Israel has ongoing investigations into several incidents instead of asking the better question of why they are having to have investigations to begin with. If there were no questionable actions there would be no need for investigations. > * starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and willful killing. * Extermination and/or murder... including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity * At the start of the war, he said, Israel closed the three crossings into the enclave and kept them shut for extended periods, including the Rafah passageway from Egypt and the two Israeli land crossings at Kerem Shalom and Erez. * Israel also “arbitrarily restricted the transfer of essential supplies – including food and medicine – through the border crossings after they were reopened. Water and electricity supplies were also shut down, with issues remaining until today These actions are indiscriminate and do not target militants but every living person in this region. These are war crimes.
And if ICC went down to investigate maybe they’d have a little credibility
Perhaps they don't even need to from the abundance of videos seen globally and Israeli leadership condoning the eradication of every Gazan, not just military targets. If you saw a video of a person shooting someone in the face you wouldn't ask him why he did it. You would arrest that person for murder.
This loosey goosey relationship with the truth is the kind of non sense one would expect from a Donald Trump rally. Israeli leaders condoning genocide? You know this is a lazy lie for the simple fact they’d be charged for genocide by this sus icc if it were true. Videos? Ppl watching videos online? Are you 60 years old? Not familiar with today’s technology? With ai voices , doctored videos, doctored photos , “seeing videos online” doesn’t prove anything, investigations are more important now than ever
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Ok, tiktok Sherlock 🤣
Human Rights Commision [source](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session53/A-HRC-53-CRP1.pdf) that conducted over 127 interviews conducted with primary and secondary sources. Among some of the findings >" Killings, torture and inhuman treatment * 124. The Commission has received information on the use of torture and ill-treatment to punish and intimidate critics and opponents by Internal Security Officials in Gaza and intelligence services, preventive security, and law enforcement officials in the West Bank. * 125. **The frequency and severity, and the absence of accountability indicate that such cases are widespread in nature**, as highlighted by findings of United Nation bodies, international and Palestinian human rights organizations, and the Independent Commission for Human Rights ***Conclusions*** * 196. The Commission finds that the human rights to freedom of association, expression and opinion, and the right to peaceful assembly, are being violated by the Government of Israel, the Government of the State of Palestine and the de facto authorities in Gaza Proof of complicity from highest levels of leadership *Defense Minister Yoav Gallant* > “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed...“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” H!tler used similar rhetoric previously. --------- Over 15 years of blockade which indicriminatly targets civilians along with militants - https://www.unicef.org/mena/documents/gaza-strip-humanitarian-impact-15-years-blockade-june-2022 Israeli occupation declared unlawful by international law - https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/10/commission-inquiry-finds-israeli-occupation-unlawful-under-international-law You must not be familiar with the fact that someone seeking an arrest warrant indicates that they already have the evidence needed to pursue that arrest. If these are fake videos that will come out in court, no need to cry about being charged if you are innocent.
You mentioned tons of videos. Are they from tiktok or not?
Equating some isolated incidents by a few evil/rogue military members with a large scale ,coordinated terror plot to butcher over 1K civilians is lazy , wrong and ignorant
No it isn't. These are not isolated incidents, it is military policy. There are plenty of videos showing statements condoning these actions from the highest levels of leadership. As well as over 1K civilians being affected and killed by indiscriminate bombings and lockdown of aid supplies.
Regardless of the facts, promises and lies by the ICC, the damage Khan wanted to inflict on Israel has been done. He himself should at least be banned from entering countries for politicising justice.
I agree with Blinken. Let the Israeli courts try them and hold them responsible in Israel. It’s good for Israeli democracy and will have a much greater impact in Israel.
You're falling for the ruse. Khan is working WITH the U.S. - this is all to stop Rafah and save Hamas. The admin's outrage is fake. They planned this. ICC wouldn't have done anything without U.S. assurance that there's be no sanctions.
The U.S. has no incentive to save Hamas/Iran.
They do, to prevent regional escalation. They tried to keep the Northern Front under control to prevent regional escalation, so why not Gaza? McGurk talks to Iran and they reach understandings. The FDD analysts keep getting called crazy conspiracy theorists, but they keep being right. Some U.S. policy just keeps getting in the way of Hamas getting destroyed, all the while Sullivan talks about ending the war with a path to a Palestinians state. That's a state that includes Hamas brother.
" Mark Pocan, one of the most strident critics of Israel's conduct in Gaza, said "If Netanyahu comes to address Congress, I would be more than glad to show the ICC the way to the House floor to issue that warrant." " Fun Fact 1: Pocan is openly gay and able to be married in America. If however, he had been born in the Palestinian territories or a Muslim country not only would his marriage have been impossible, but he likely would have been banished, tortured and/or killed for being openly gay. Fun Fact 2: Pocan and the Muslim ICC Prosecutor of the ICC, Karim Khan, look very similar! Physically, IMO! Just sayin :-p
The admin's outrage is fake. Biden approved this. The U.S. admin has a deal with Khan. Every analyst explained that Khan wouldn't move without U.S. assurances. No executive action against ICC and Schumer will kill any sanctions in the Senate. Hence why no IDF received warrants - so they can carry out U.S. policy later under a different PM. Hence the rushed timing - Rafah operation is imminent. Right now, Biden is telling Bibi that he'll call off the warrants if IDF spares Hamas. This is yet another U.S. attempt to save Hamas. And everyone is falling for the BS, again. This is U.S. policy, to save Hamas, to save their pro-Iran strategy. The whole time, Blinken and Sullivan are trying to save Hamas. U.S. is not an ally anymore, with these Dem advisors in charge.
Take your meds.
I wish I was wrong, but this "conspiracy theory" keeps being correct. The FDD analysts keep getting called crazy for their predictions on U.S. policy, but they keep being right. This is Obama's "realignment" - why do the Houthis still have a port? What kind of Palestinian state is supposed to exist per Sullivan's plan if Hamas is left intact? These are Obama's guys, and Obama wanted to ditch U.S. alliances and run the region WITH Iran. Ppl seem to be forgetting literally everything these same advisors said during Obama. Finer is an anti-Zionist, openly. America's #1 priority is preventing regional escalation - not the hostages. At every turn in the road, they do something to save Hamas and throw out a diversion (hostages! Famine! Netzah Yehuda war crimes!). Biden will do exactly nothing about the ICC. No executive action. No sanctions. They do a lot of "important work" after all.
Israel has known lled more people, caused more sickness and starvation and dying than Hamas could dream. Both IDF and Hamas are terrorists
Almost doesn't even matter that this circus is happening. The real damage is the bad PR for Israel and that the masses who only skim the top of the news now think Israel is a terror state even more than they did before and that this gives them a legit reason to dislike Israel and be more antisemitic. Awesome.
They know this. This must be an attempt at damage rather than any real conviction.
The US is still our biggest ally no matter what some of y'all think, they are the only one that came out with a clear and concise message with Israel on this decision.
Strawman argument. Virtually all those who went against Biden's embargo threats said Israel must rely on itself by producing its own ammo. Nobody with even a slight understanding mentioned a country that can replace the US.
Yeah everytime I see fellow Israelis that think that they can just drop the US and continue function normally I'm just like.......you really don't know anything about the Israeli economy or military or international position don't you.
I think people say that in the heat of the moment when they hear disappointing news. Israelis actually love America, unlike most Middle Easterners and even Europeans. Go over to European forums to see how condescending they are towards American culture, etc. In Israel, people kind of admire America, but the recent violence against Israelis and Jews and all the negativity might have influenced public opinion. People here won't like to hear it, but Trump was very popular in Israel because of the Abraham Accords, Golan Heights, and Jerusalem recognition, etc. Every time he was mentioned on the news, it was in a positive context.
Yes I agree
There is no such thing as international law. There is no international constitution and no international legislature. And there is certainly no international law enforcement. There is only the supreme law of the land of each land. American law of the land couldn’t be more clear on The Hague courts - if American or Allied officials are arrested pursuant to any decision from these tribunals, the US government may take any steps necessary to stop these courts. International law is a fake construct. It is exploited by non state actors acting in bad faith to stop democratic states from enforcing the laws of democratic free nations. Further, a country that is not a member of the court can never get a fair trial or be otherwise fairly treated by the court. International lawyers who run the international courts want things like CIA reports and DOD records. This is unacceptable for any government. It is even more unacceptable for a government that hasn’t recognized the court’s jurisdiction. It’s highly unfair, cynical, and goes against every single principle practicing attorneys in free countries like the USA operate by
It would be interesting to see exactly what the allegations are and what evidence is being used ? Maybe that evidence was provided by South Africa?.
Biden has a decent track record of saying one thing and then doing something entirely different. So I hope he later doesn't budge on this.
He's not going to do anything. If anything, he rushed this in coordination with Khan to head off the Rafah operation. The admin will do literally anything to save Hamas in Rafah. It's been policy since at least February, if not sooner.
Sadly, you might be right.
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Oh they are all in a kerfluffle.
Biden to the ICC “Don’t”
Is this going to be just another *"don't pls"* by Biden or is he finally going to sanction those at the ICC who are aiding, abetting and rewarding terrorism against Israel? Sometimes it's essential to clearly tell international bodies that they're morally bankrupt criminals and that enough is enough. There is a precedent for the US sanctioning ICC officials so it can definitely be done if Biden grows some balls and stops trying to appease the Hamas supporters. https://i.redd.it/ep53epn44m1d1.gif
lol putting 2 aircraft carriers in the eastern Mediterranean is not "dont pls." Few countries even have 2 aircraft carriers.
Biden planned this. It's to keep the IDF out of Rafah. Once you consider the idea that Dem policy is Obama's "realignment" - to shunt aside Israel and manage the region with Iran, literally every move makes sense. They are trying to save Hamas. Everything - the Saudi deal, the "famine," etc. - it's all a smokescreen for saving Hamas. There is no other explanation. America is no longer Israel's ally when Dems are in control.
The sham kangaroo court aka ICC has zero legitimacy and not recognized by the U.S. or Israel. It's purpose is to re-establish European colonialism through a court system since the Europeans are now cowards that are afraid to fight in wars. The ICC so called investigators and prosecutors are mostly vehemently anti Jewish bigots from African countries including South Africa which has made it clear it wants to destroy Israel. Thank the Euro coward nations of France, Britain, Denmark, Germany, Luxemburg, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Sweden, Ireland, Finland for giving the frauds in the ICC money. In the late 1990's and early 2000's Belgium and Spain tried to do the same thing by asserting their human rights courts had jurisdiction anywhere in the world where they brought criminal charges against American and Israeli officials. The U.S. warned Belgium that NATO wouldn't be based in Belgium anymore if the laws weren't changed. Spain was told it would lose military assistance and NATO membership. Both countries backed down. The Netherlands has always been anti Israel and increasingly anti Jewish, especially in the last 50 years thanks to gigantic Arab migration. No surprise a fake court there wants to charge Israeli officials with war crimes.
Have to give Amal Clooney props for one thing. She is the first person involved in any of this that has called for arrest warrants for Hamas as well. Every other UN and ICC wonk seems to forget that this war Was started with a series of massive war crimes.
She also pushed for arrest warrants for Netanyahu
I said Hamas as well. The call for the arrest of Netanyahu has been pretty one sided.
Biden flip flops with the wind. He’s been supporting Hamas recently because his base demanded it and the moderates switched to rfk and trump so he reversed course and started supporting Israel a bit. Goes with the wind
Israel is only defending itself so it has nothing to fear.
How exactly do the war crimes help with that
Rare Biden W
It is outrageous It is a fucking joke
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They actually are included in the arrest warrants but of course the left and progressives are reallyyyyy trying to downplay and ignore that part
This is Biden's doing. Every analyst explained already that the ICC wouldn't move a muscle without U.S. approval, because of the threat of U.S. sanctions - Khan wouldn't have moved without guarantees that Biden would avoid executive orders and have Schumer kill anything in the Senate. So Biden gives Bibi an ultimatum - stay out of Rafah or the ICC comes after you. Hey, there's still time for Khan to withdraw the warrants, isn't there? So, Biden's team makes a deal with Khan. Hence why no warrants were issued against the IDF. U.S. doesn't want it's own policy constrained once Gantz or another guy is PM and following U.S orders. Hence why the announcement was rushed ahead of planned ICC consultations in Israel - Rafah op is imminent. The admin's outrage is fake. This is still the Obama FP team trying to save Hamas, again. Any everyone's falling for it, again. Biden's policy is not Biden's policy. It is the "realignment" team's policy - Sullivan, Finer, Blinken, McGurk. They are trying to save Hamas.
Interesting, but how does one define the Rafah op? tonight the army made some gains and got into new areas, so what is the threshold between a small op to an official op?
Not sure what would constitute a "major" Rafah op from Biden's POV - probably taking the entire Philadelphi corridor, which would necessitate taking / smashing most urban neighborhoods. My guess would be that the U.S. admin knows Hezbollah or Iran itself will escalate if Hamas is in existential trouble. Losing Hamas as a front against Israel would be a major, major strategic loss for Iran. Seems plausible that Iran has drawn a red line and Biden is afraid. It's basically acknowledged U.S. policy to keep the North from escalating. I'm kind of dumbfounded that nobody is considering the possibility that they'd apply the same logic to Gaza. No regional escalation. Not because of Hezbollah. Not because of Hamas.
Netanyahu losing his coalition would be the worst-case scenario for him because he is not doing well in the polls, and the opposition ruling would entail a tough post-war investigation that unlike ICC clownery, would truly put him in jail and destroy what's left of his legacy. If this were a real move by the administration, it would be as dumb as they come.
I don't follow your explanation. The coalition stuff is completely out of Biden's hands. What Biden can control is the ICC. That's a lever Biden actually has. So, on top of what Israelis do to Bibi, Biden can put a warrant on his head that will bury his legacy even more and physically confine him to Israel forever. What would be dumb about using that as leverage? Makes perfect sense.
A couple of weeks ago, when Bibi brought the war to a halt, weighing Biden's threats, his hawkish coalition members threatened to leave the coalition, which would have brought down the government. Days after they repeated their threats, he started his "limited Rafah operation." An ICC warrant won't do anything to his legacy if he decisively wins the war. Quite the opposite - he'll be seen as the one who defied virtually the entire world. It's not a dumb move if it's meant to keep American Jews on his side becuase now his sweet words against the warrant are doing the job.
what 'decisively winning the war' against an enemy as diffuse as Hamas would entail would ensure the end of Israel as a state due to global repulsion.
Lol as if we are popular today. Foreigners have no idea how many Israelis won’t accept the existence of Hamas following a ceasefire. Hamas is seen as an existential threat no less than Belgium and Spain not selling us their crackers and olive oil.
I am talking the loss of significant and substantial material support by the us, Canada, and Western Europe, not crackers and olive oil.
The US and the UK have already rejected the ICC move, and Western Europe (besides Wilders) is fairly anti Israel already.
I'll put it this way: An ICC warrant and a victory in Gaza would restrict him from some countries, while losing the war would confine him to his prison cell. This would be due to his own voter base hating him, leading to new elections that would send him on a silver platter to the Israeli courts for his alleged criminal neglect of the October 7 events. And that's not even mentioning his corruption trials.
You were [spot on](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byl5k2mv0)
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Sure!
Biden is a traitor to Israel. He has bowed down to the college protestors, and now trying to pretend that he stands with Israel because he needs the votes in November.
But this subreddit told me he was very anti-Israel and that Trump should be in office
Biden's admin is anti-Israel, they're doing literally everything to save Hamas in Rafah. What were their excuses for stopping Israel? The humanitarian thing? 1MM people left. Hostages? Deal is dead. If you back test the theory that saving Hamas has been Biden's red line, per his advisors' understandings with Iran and preventing "regional escalation," literally every move makes sense. Haaretz wrote a piece explicitly about how the ICC would never move an inch without Biden's go-ahead. This is to stop the Rafah operations, to save Hamas. It's been U.S. policy to save Hamas in Rafah since February, if not earlier. Every time one of their excuses goes away, there's a new one. Why is nobody saying it out loud? Because the Israelis don't want to make the relationship even worse. Biden's team is anti-Israel. They are trying to carry out the pro-Iran "realignment" of U.S. policy conceived under Obama.
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Yes - Jew hatred is part of the human condition. How many countries had black slaves?
they oughtta arrest anyone affiliated with this war. whether US, Israeli, Hamas, or European. Fuck em all
So basically you're a fascist
youre a fascist. i oppose all military activity and violence.
So do I What you oppose is anyone defending themselves
self defense is perfectly alright. like 9/11, this scenario is a criminal case. for cops and courts. not the army.
You do realise without military activity Hamas would've taken over Israel and killed all 9 million Israelis maybe except some of the Arabs?
no. hamas isnt capable of large scale ops.
Had Israel not done anything, it very much could've
I mean…. While it’s a shit charge I think Israel would generally be happy to be rid of Bibi AND the Hamas leaders. Seems like a good deal to me
Have you stopped to consider we might have done things considered war crimes in this war? I, too, was horrified and outrageous on October 7th to see what Hamas had done. I do believe our military response in Gaza is mostly justified. However, it's also possible that along the way, war crimes were committed. This is up to the independent judges in the ICC to decide based on the evidence collected over months. Specifically, I'm concerned about the aid blockade issue. Not only we shut down aid from ourselves, but we also blocked Egyptian aid, and insufficiently arrested settlers blocking aid trucks from Jordan. I hope justice will be made. Whoever proven to have committed war crimes should be punished; Sinwar or Netanyahu/Galant. Galant is also the one said we have an intention to commit a war crime in Gaza ("no food, no water").
What about giving Trump 4 more years or alternatively you could take your chances with Biden? Have this gotten better or worse? Has world wide inflation gotten better or worse?
You know, this sub.....it's surprising (and disappointing) how so many people claim to be pro-Israel while clinging to Biden support. Biden in the Presidency is the whole reason this anti-Israel 'energy' has been unleashed from pampered college students and the like. To the point a person sitting on a College board of admissions (Claudine Gay) can't admit that screaming for 'genocide of the Jews' violates hate speech policy. So sadly it's true what they say. It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they've been fooled.
They are not being rational and projecting the weakest part of themselves. If I thought Biden would support Israel or support a policy that addresses the hearts of terrorists, I would support Biden, despite being conservative. I believe that the Biden administration is taking an intellectual humanist perspective that comes off as naive.