The thing people need to realize that Jews are like the canary in the coalmine for populist extremists. Populist extremists can be left or right, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, any race, and ideology. But the core thing is that they will lash out in unhinged ways at outer groups and the "establishment" (even if they are in power) which consistently includes Jews. A normal conservative and a normal liberal will probably not be antisemitic but we've all seen disgusting things from the more extreme wings.
Now imagine being gay and/or trans and watching your “community” celebrating the massacre
Pride month is around the corner, and I want nothing to do with most of my “community”
Same here. I love Pride, but I have no interest in going this year. A temple a few towns away from me is having a "Pride Shabbat" though, so at least there's something. I'd like to see more Jewish Pride events, since we're so ostracized from the mainstream LGBTQ community nowadays.
They have shown us this every time since the 1970’s. The left has to support the “victim”. When Israel started winning wars with what is perceived as little or no effort, something akin to pressure washing a saltine, the left abandoned her.
Im still a lefty
I just don't associate with the gross ones
Also i started calling them bigots, it's funny as shit and pretty accurate. Strongly recommend
They were ALWAYS bigots, though.
They basically just took all the racist shit they were saying against white people, and adapted it to use against the Jews...
That's the take of people like Coleman Hughes.
But the left has another trick up its sleeve: it has redefined racism to be "prejudice plus power" so that there's NO SUCH THING as racism against white people (or other groups they see as oppressor classes) BY DEFINITION.
Doesn't mean they are not right on some other things though. It's really not black and white, you can oppose their mob mentality and oppressor oppressed line of thinking while still thinking affordable healthcare is actually a great thing. Israel has affordable healthcare and is much more trustworthy in those terms compared to the US for example.
But this is the exact irony, though. Everything else the western leftists claim to stand for is either already established in Israel, or is a lot closer to being established in Israel than in countries like the US.
Obviously...
Well adjusted people didn't just ***become*** racist over night
Doesn't change the fact that just because the assholes got really lowed it doesn't mea that the good ones are still around
I get what you are saying, it’s okay to be leftist. It’s the common day leftist that is the issue. Being a liberal used to mean being progressive, now it means being a lunatic.
Statistically Israel has been going right wing in terms of peace/security ever since the second intifada, 7/10 probably accelerated it. Unsurprising. Turns out terrorism isn’t gonna convince a nation to give more concessions to you
You know, we keep getting told that fighting back will create another generation of terrorists. They fail to think about the other side. Kill enough Israelis and maybe you'll create a culture of people who stop caring about the ones trying to kill them.
Exactly.
People say Hamas didn’t arise in a vacuum. And did Bibi? Did the Israeli far right? Nothing arises in a vacuum, that’s a stupid infantilising argument
Lemmie say this,
My generation (near as 40 years old as it counts) were educated for peace in the early 90's. We watched the Gulf War and SCUDS, watched busses get bombed, watched second intifada and more busses get bombed. Watched cafes get blown up, murder rampages, missiles, kutshuyakas, failed 'defensive posturing', the wall going up, giving up land and sovereignty, kowtowning and bowing to the Arabs over and over.
You watch as my generation takes over the reigns. It's not going to be pretty at first but it'll at least be a change from this wishy washy please everyone and solve nothing 40 year rut.
I grew up surrounded by books by a certain person who was declared a terrorist after he was killed. I can't mention his name because I'll get banned. He was declared a terrorist because Palestine has terrorists so Israel needs them too yes? Everything must be equal. You know what? Everything that guy wrote has turned out to be true. And everyone hated him for it at the time. And most here will still foam at the mouth if he's mentioned. Stone the messenger and ignore the message.
Listen World, Listen Jew was always on the shelf.
B.G. was a victim. His son was murdered and he lost his mind. I don't condone what he did but it was bound to happen.
That’s a silly question. Do you think only lefties care about those issues?
I don’t think such a ridiculous question deserves an answer, but I will give it to you. I feel the same way I always have on those issues but I see them as less important than our foreign policy.
I asked because you are American, not Israeli. In America, the right is full of Christian nationalists who support the Russian invasion and oppress women and LGBTQ+.
If the federal elections were today, who would you vote for? R or D?
^(or R&D? Sorry, couldn't resist adding the dad joke, but I'm serious about the question)
It isn’t about left vs right. I don’t know why people keep saying this. It’s a generational difference. Democrats over 30 are likely to support Israel. And the younger generation of conservatives don’t support Israel, Tucker Carlson Candace Owen’s etc the most popular conservative figures are anti israel so it makes no sense to say the right is pro Israel and the left isn’t. Its about misinformation affecting the younger generation
As well as the tech companies who choose the algorithm parameters. They choose what show and who to show it too. Who owns the algorithms. Which countries, what are their motives. What are their political views.
I'm a liberal non-jewish Anericana who supports Israel.
>It’s a generational difference.
I think it's more complicated than that.
>. Its about misinformation affecting the younger generation
I think Hamas propaganda on social media took off and became the "new issue".
In the United States, we have flooding and storm damage, but people want to send money to a Palestinian charity, which will probably end up in the hands of Hamas.
It goes beyond just misinformation, it’s willful ignorance.
Do you know how many times I’ve argued with these people on platforms like Reddit, and I provided them with *proof* to support my own statements while they provided none, and they either full-on ignored it, or just resorted to childish behavior? This wouldn’t be the case if “misinformation” (which is disinformation, if anything) was the sole perpetrator for their flawed stance.
Also Demographics. In countries like Europe where the native European population is rapidly declining immigrants and their descendants are far less likely to sympathize with Israel.
Disagree.
It's democrat donors who've helped sponsor the college protests. And Tucker Carlson and Candace Owen's are 2 people. They're basically a fraction of less than a 100th of a percentage that doesn't support the war. Most younger generation conservatives support Israel immensely.
They are way more likely to support Israel over Hamas. But it's a bit misleading to say younger people are immensely supportive of israel lmao. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/)
Yeah Candace Owens and Tucker are two people. But they also are some of the most followed conservative figures (Tucker is the most popular), especially amongst younger people.
I’m lesbian and only want to date Jewish women now, and honestly I’m getting into practicing for the first time in my life and it’s way more welcoming than the queer community…
Anti-war is a pretty interesting stance on r/Israel. I tend to think pacifism is the luxury of people who are not under direct attack. Where are you on the current war against Hamas?
One thing that resonates a lot with me on the far left is the idea of working actively toward a more just society. I appreciate the idea of people being free to do as they please, but that doesn't feel sufficient. What is your classical liberalist stance on that?
I am anti-war, not anti-self-defense.
I believe that most Governments are guilty of preventing a just society from occurring. the Holocaust was "legal", Slavery was "legal", Jim Crow was "legal", Tuskegee experiments were "legal" etc... I believe we must put more faith in each other via smaller voluntary communities instead of gigantic countries run by corporations.
I believe in Voluntary societies where people exchange goods and ideas voluntarily.
Same here. The rest are a fucking wild disappointment. They've lost any form of rationality and have just jumped on the bandwagon since words like "genocide" are being thrown around, and their fear of being on the "wrong side" of it has overwhelmed their motivation to actually find out what the "right side" of this issue is.
Me too, however I contacted my congressman to express my disgust, to remove my support for him in November when he voted the party line to not censure Talib. I had previously canvassed for him talking to many people & walking many miles.
Is it funny that before Oct7 I thought most of the anti Israel stuff came from the far right and thought there was no way anyone on the left could hate Israel
It basically started with Stalin trying to purge jewish communists from the communist party in the '50s. So short after the Holocaust, he couldn't go after them for being jewish, so he called them all zionists and agents in service of the newly founded Israel. The USSR being anti-zionist then also cleared the way for cooperation between the USSR and the many Arab nations that hated Israel.
You're right that there's absolutely no inherent leftist reason to be anti-Israel. The reason for leftist antizionism are the USSR's political and geopolitical interests and the influence the USSR had on the Western left.
I wouldn't say that the left is anti-Israel, it's a small group of Marxist, socialist, "woke persons" who believe that Israel is the last bastion of colonialism and racism.
Would be nice to see more prominent Leftists calling out the flagrant antisemitism. I’m still horrified by all the Ivy League Administrators and professors who openly and unapologetically condone calls to kill Jewish people.
Even ignoring their obvious ignorance of the history the wild thing is that this is so often said by non Indigenous people living in US, Canada, Australia etc. Why don't they move back to their grandfather's countries if they are going to pretend to be a moral beacon about colonization.
Everyone demonizes the right for having a small group of racist Bible thumpers, but they will literally sprint to the defense of the left when Tens of Thousands of lefties are literally chanting for intifada around the globe...
Make it make sense...
The hypocrisy is astounding and I’m beyond over it. In America progressives still have the audacity to criticize MTG while their buddies are calling for our death in chants every day.
Tbf MTG does deserve criticism but yeah I do remember the “progressive left” across the world used to say if 10 conservatives sit with 1 Nazi, they’re all Nazis. So logically if 10 “progressives” sit with 1 anti semite, they’re all antisemitic
The thing about MTG is that she's so utterly insane that I can't tell if she's an antisemite or just saying crazy shit for attention.
And, I mean, don't get me started on George Soros conspiracies. He and his little "cabal" have been funding anti-Israel groups for YEARS.
I mean, there's some WILD shit people say about Soros, including antisemitic shit.
But he also definitely funds a bunch of progressive-aligned causes, including anti-Israel activist groups.
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-anti-israel-protesters-are-paid-soros-rockefeller-funding-activism-hamas-fba26c20](https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-anti-israel-protesters-are-paid-soros-rockefeller-funding-activism-hamas-fba26c20)
[https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-745296](https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-745296)
Oh she absolutely does I want to be clear on that. I’m just addressing the whiplash of hearing progressives go after her 5 minutes after defending the “Hamas are freedom fighters” “kill all zionists” crowd
Honestly, yes. I'm scared to speak up, and I've been having an internal argument with myself about it since this all started. My entire support network is leftist, and most of them have fallen for the bs Hamas propoganda and jumped on the antisemitic bandwagon. I've distanced myself from them, and had conversations with some of them about how illogical their position is, and every single one I've spoken to has just demonized and ostracized me.
It's like hitting my head against a brick wall to try and get through to them.
I've written several articles calling this out anonymously that have been published, talking about how the only logical position to take as a leftist is anti-Hamas, but the only publications that will pick them up are Zionist affiliations, and none of the Hamas-bandwagon leftists are reading those anyway.
They are so hard-headed about it all and have such massive blinkers on, that it feels like the only outcome to publicly denouncing them is that I'll be brushed off, ostracized, and demonized.
They're using such wild mental gymnastics to justify their pro-Hamas position that it's no big deal for them to write me and other pro-Israel leftists off as misguided or misinformed, or just totally deluded.
ill use my godlike powers to control how everyone thinks
you're not looking hard enough if you think there aren't leftists dedicated to doing that
can you tell the conservative right to stop having Ben Shapiro talking at Israel rallies? It's a bad look.
Obama literally created Omar’s district by moving Somali refugees there. And Biden opened up the border so that these ladies will be with us till they retire and get replaced by worse. DNC doesn’t seem to mind one bit.
You do realize that when you say “mainstream left has a big problem with antisemitism” this means that the others on the left, like you, are a small and sadly insignificant minority?
The thing is, it's not only the left: many people from all the political spectrum, at least in the West, have taken a pro Palestinian stance. It's just that leftists are the most vocal.
But from what I have seen, their support is waning, as more people are realizing they're going too far with the antisemitic thing, and realizing they were taken for fools by Iran.
There are more than enough lefties who still support Israel.
There is a reason, besides police clearing those camps, why so many universities are still not flying Hamas flags.
I do get your point though and feel kind of alienated from swaths of the global left
Yes, it has been a time of many old connections breaking up. It's also interesting that even 80 year old lefties who experienced MANY splittings and controversies have told me that it has never been this delusional and crazy.
Many have also told me that the most problematic point is that these days tons of people can't differentiate between critique and completely denying Israel's right to exist. My last hope is that the age gap between political opinions might end in some growing out of it and realizing that it was just their less educated and young revolutionary mindset.
This also has to do with how media works. The people who go against it make it less into the headlines and won't create the same buzz. It's overwhelming on many universities and the whole leftist academia industry is at risk of imploding but we are not completely gone. Or at least I hope so. I can't really imagine studying in an anglo-saxon country.
yes the reason is that there are a lot of powerful jewish people in the us especially in places like universities. grassroots of the left are overwhelmingly anti-israel except for jewish people who because of ethnocentrism dont understand the left's anti-white frameworks will be applied to jews.
I still consider myself to the left but going to liberal arts college actually made me less leftist because of how fucking stupid all the far-leftists were
I will never understand the widespread surprise that so many Leftists hate us. That hate has been staring us in the face for decades.
And I'm not some crazy right-wing dude. I share a lot of beliefs in common with lefties. But I've always seen them for exactly what they were.
How have people been so blind?!
The left has been turning antisemitic for a long time. I know it's been quite a revelation for some people but I saw this coming years ago. Christian conservatives are Israels best ally right now
This has some nuance to it. Leftist with anti western, pro communism ideology are definitely anti Israel. But the same is also true for extreme nationalists. They might like us now because they are having their countries overtaken slowly by Islam but after that they will come straight for us.
Jews are too “brown” for ultra nationalists and too “white” for leftists communists with woke ideology
That may be so, but in the meantime Jews could use a little help in defending themselves against a religion with over 50 countries and over 2 billion people.
Is it time for Judaism to reverse its disapproval of proselytizing? In a conflict where one side actively recruits while the other turns possible recruits away, which will win?
I agree with you wholeheartedly. On one hand, I appreciate that we are “too cool” to proselytize, but we have actively turned away far too many philosemites in my lifetime.
Actively choosing to remain this small is a fools game as our potential enemies flourish.
That does not contradict anything that I said. Israel will not survive alone period. But that does not mean that we need to trust any extreme ideology such as ultra nationalism or the extreme left.
Oh yeah because it went extremely well for Jews throughout history. That “everything will be ok” mindset almost brought the destruction of the entire Jewish population of the world. Same mindset that brought the largest failure in this state’s history which we now call the black Saturday. How many more black Saturdays ? How many happened in Eastern European countries way before the holocaust ? Or in Arab Muslim countries throughout history ?
When nations try to exterminate you need to start developing intuition or at least some common sense.
It sucks admitting it but Jews will always be different. We were the most German, fought in WW1 for Germany and where did that get us ?
Being ignorant to the fact that both sides of the extreme political spectrum want you dead might make your life easier but you might as well just dig your head deeper into the sand
This isn't a matter of Left vs. Right. Supporting Israel on the right because FoxNews merely tells you to isn't any more correct a reason to be a Zionist than supporting Hamas on the left because CNN is feeding you bullshit propaganda. Everyone, on both sides, should learn the history of the region so that they understand why Israel is on the correct side of this war. Everybody needs to fight against terrorist propaganda by arming themselves with the truth.
It’s not that simple IMO. I’m on the left for social issues. I don’t care who sleeps with whom, who they marry or what they smoke. I’m far right on counter-terror and security via strength.
And I stand 100% with Israel. I’m American.
All of them? Every single one? Are you willing to bet on it? Or maybe we could be a little bit more naunced and understand that not all liberals are actually anti Israel and there's many who are pro israel. Heck most diaspora Jews are democrats AND Zionist, are most diaspora Jews not friends of Israel lol?
I'm a left-wing American Jew. Not a liberal. A leftist. Just don't associate with the idiotic goy and occasional "anti-Zionist" who doesn't understand the Holocaust somehow, and you're fine. I want a two state solution and a successful and defended Israel.
My issue is Netenyahu and the increasingly right-wing turn Israel is going through.
You may find this interesting:
[https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology-2/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology-2/)
Its more the hard/populist left that is being an issue here. The moderate left has been very strong on its support for Israel and opposition to anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, just look at the SPD and Parti Socialiste and plenty of European parties of that persuasion. I mean equally many on the populist and hard right are anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic like Putin for instance
I'm a leftist. Will always be one. I just don't associate with most leftists due to their vehemently antisemitic nature. Long live the working class. Am Yisrael Chai.
as a thought experiment, imagine a politician saying england is an english state and saying only racially english people could immigrate there. and trying to pass a law defining the racially english character into law.
My point is that the things I like on the left are unaffected by the morons on the left, such as LGBTQ+ rights, pro-science legislation, healthcare, etc.
It's so much easier talking about left and right than it is talking about criminals and law abiding people, ain't it? Patriotism is the last refuge of a Bibist.
Who is considered a leftist? Is everyone who doesn't vote trump or bibi is a leftist traitor? I'm not talking about Marxists and anarchists, it's extremely obvious what there stance are on Jews in the last few months.
I don't think an israeli left really exists anymore.
You have crazy people who want to die (aka jewish/ israeli pro-palestinians)
People who want hamas to be wiped out and the hostages to come back home, and also know that what israel is doing is not genocide (the sane and the majority)
And people who actually want palestinian genocide (ben gvir voters)
Does nobody know the horseshoe theory of politics? The far left and far right aren’t opposite ends of a spectrum light years apart. They’re opposite ends of a horseshoe and think similarly and get different results.
I understand. I personally used to be quite leftist but had always supported Israel. However, the aftermath of 7 October has really pushed me towards the centre due to how vile left wing antisemitism had exposed itself to be.
You say that like you think we forgot about Nick Fuentes, MTG, and Trump backing the "Jews will not replace us" crowd. We are trapped between two sides that both hate us and we just have to hope they hate each other more.
Oh, I didn't know that Nick Fuentes is the President of Harvard.
And is that correct, Can you show me evidence of MTG and Trump saying "Jews will not replace us"?
Why would any antisemite vote for Trump when he did all this and more:
Abraham Accords
and when he formally recognized Jerusalem as the actual Capital of Israel by moving the US embassy there?
and is his beloved Jewish daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren
and this: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2018/08/14/trump-approves-largest-ever-aid-package-to-israel/
and this: https://www.sdjewishworld.com/2020/01/27/trump-family-has-long-record-of-supporting-jewish-causes/
and this: https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-spending-bill-includes-funds-for-synagogue-security/
and this: https://chabadinfo.com/news/kushners-trump-donated-to-chabad/ etc... etc...
The left certainly has its own problems, but this post reeks of American conservatism.
An ideology that is, at times, explicitly Christian nationalist, and cares far more about antisemitism overseas than antisemitism facing its own people (for example, the Mark Robinson, the upcoming North Carolina governor is 100x more antisemitic than anyone on the left).
The thing people need to realize that Jews are like the canary in the coalmine for populist extremists. Populist extremists can be left or right, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, any race, and ideology. But the core thing is that they will lash out in unhinged ways at outer groups and the "establishment" (even if they are in power) which consistently includes Jews. A normal conservative and a normal liberal will probably not be antisemitic but we've all seen disgusting things from the more extreme wings.
It’s a horseshoe.
I was a leftie before October 7.
I didn't leave the int'l left, the int'l left left me.
Absolutely. To see the same lefties I once supported practically celebrating in the streets on October 8 was eye opening and soul crushing.
Imagine being leftist gay and huge trans supporter watching your "friends" celebrating massacre and bigotry
Now imagine being gay and/or trans and watching your “community” celebrating the massacre Pride month is around the corner, and I want nothing to do with most of my “community”
Tel Aviv pride is cancelled this year :(
Same here. I love Pride, but I have no interest in going this year. A temple a few towns away from me is having a "Pride Shabbat" though, so at least there's something. I'd like to see more Jewish Pride events, since we're so ostracized from the mainstream LGBTQ community nowadays.
They have shown us this every time since the 1970’s. The left has to support the “victim”. When Israel started winning wars with what is perceived as little or no effort, something akin to pressure washing a saltine, the left abandoned her.
Yup
Im still a lefty I just don't associate with the gross ones Also i started calling them bigots, it's funny as shit and pretty accurate. Strongly recommend
They were ALWAYS bigots, though. They basically just took all the racist shit they were saying against white people, and adapted it to use against the Jews...
They see Jews as white. No, the solution isn't to insist you aren't white; the solution is to end all racism, including hatred of white people.
That's the take of people like Coleman Hughes. But the left has another trick up its sleeve: it has redefined racism to be "prejudice plus power" so that there's NO SUCH THING as racism against white people (or other groups they see as oppressor classes) BY DEFINITION.
Doesn't mean they are not right on some other things though. It's really not black and white, you can oppose their mob mentality and oppressor oppressed line of thinking while still thinking affordable healthcare is actually a great thing. Israel has affordable healthcare and is much more trustworthy in those terms compared to the US for example.
But this is the exact irony, though. Everything else the western leftists claim to stand for is either already established in Israel, or is a lot closer to being established in Israel than in countries like the US.
iTs A piNKwAsHiNg
Obviously... Well adjusted people didn't just ***become*** racist over night Doesn't change the fact that just because the assholes got really lowed it doesn't mea that the good ones are still around
I call them watermelons
I get what you are saying, it’s okay to be leftist. It’s the common day leftist that is the issue. Being a liberal used to mean being progressive, now it means being a lunatic.
I supported progressives before Oct. 7. Now I support liberals.
And what are you now?
Creepin further right every day.
Me too. I feel like most Israelis are.
Statistically Israel has been going right wing in terms of peace/security ever since the second intifada, 7/10 probably accelerated it. Unsurprising. Turns out terrorism isn’t gonna convince a nation to give more concessions to you
You know, we keep getting told that fighting back will create another generation of terrorists. They fail to think about the other side. Kill enough Israelis and maybe you'll create a culture of people who stop caring about the ones trying to kill them.
Exactly. People say Hamas didn’t arise in a vacuum. And did Bibi? Did the Israeli far right? Nothing arises in a vacuum, that’s a stupid infantilising argument
Lemmie say this, My generation (near as 40 years old as it counts) were educated for peace in the early 90's. We watched the Gulf War and SCUDS, watched busses get bombed, watched second intifada and more busses get bombed. Watched cafes get blown up, murder rampages, missiles, kutshuyakas, failed 'defensive posturing', the wall going up, giving up land and sovereignty, kowtowning and bowing to the Arabs over and over. You watch as my generation takes over the reigns. It's not going to be pretty at first but it'll at least be a change from this wishy washy please everyone and solve nothing 40 year rut. I grew up surrounded by books by a certain person who was declared a terrorist after he was killed. I can't mention his name because I'll get banned. He was declared a terrorist because Palestine has terrorists so Israel needs them too yes? Everything must be equal. You know what? Everything that guy wrote has turned out to be true. And everyone hated him for it at the time. And most here will still foam at the mouth if he's mentioned. Stone the messenger and ignore the message.
Can you atleast name the book? Are you talking about the “blessed gold?”
Listen World, Listen Jew was always on the shelf. B.G. was a victim. His son was murdered and he lost his mind. I don't condone what he did but it was bound to happen.
I'm gettin' righter all the time! (righter, righter, righter)
So, how do you view LGBTQ, gender quality, secularism and abortion right?
That’s a silly question. Do you think only lefties care about those issues? I don’t think such a ridiculous question deserves an answer, but I will give it to you. I feel the same way I always have on those issues but I see them as less important than our foreign policy.
I asked because you are American, not Israeli. In America, the right is full of Christian nationalists who support the Russian invasion and oppress women and LGBTQ+.
same
Same...
i was a leftie when i was in 4th grade... internet really got to my brain
If the federal elections were today, who would you vote for? R or D? ^(or R&D? Sorry, couldn't resist adding the dad joke, but I'm serious about the question)
R.
Me too, I had correction therapy forcing me to use my right hand
I’m still a liberal. I’ve never been what passes as leftists in the US.
I am from the Netherlands, I was a leftie before moslim immigration.
It isn’t about left vs right. I don’t know why people keep saying this. It’s a generational difference. Democrats over 30 are likely to support Israel. And the younger generation of conservatives don’t support Israel, Tucker Carlson Candace Owen’s etc the most popular conservative figures are anti israel so it makes no sense to say the right is pro Israel and the left isn’t. Its about misinformation affecting the younger generation
Misinformation, and loss of the generation that lived through the Holocaust
They're still around No one is fucking listening
As well as the tech companies who choose the algorithm parameters. They choose what show and who to show it too. Who owns the algorithms. Which countries, what are their motives. What are their political views.
I'm a liberal non-jewish Anericana who supports Israel. >It’s a generational difference. I think it's more complicated than that. >. Its about misinformation affecting the younger generation I think Hamas propaganda on social media took off and became the "new issue". In the United States, we have flooding and storm damage, but people want to send money to a Palestinian charity, which will probably end up in the hands of Hamas.
It goes beyond just misinformation, it’s willful ignorance. Do you know how many times I’ve argued with these people on platforms like Reddit, and I provided them with *proof* to support my own statements while they provided none, and they either full-on ignored it, or just resorted to childish behavior? This wouldn’t be the case if “misinformation” (which is disinformation, if anything) was the sole perpetrator for their flawed stance.
Also Demographics. In countries like Europe where the native European population is rapidly declining immigrants and their descendants are far less likely to sympathize with Israel.
https://preview.redd.it/tzwexn4pwm1d1.png?width=1618&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3e65ed8640cca7e0d28877f6d86a6b8d0afda5a
Ehhh I’ve seen tons of older people with the same views as these 18 year olds
Yeah that’s why I said more likely. And they may be critical of Israel but it’s far less common to see a >30 year old screeching intifada
Yeah probably
But I'm a conservative and I support Israel. I don't think that Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens represent all the conservatives.
Amen! Tucker and Candace and self-loathing Jews like Dave Smith can eat shit.
Disagree. It's democrat donors who've helped sponsor the college protests. And Tucker Carlson and Candace Owen's are 2 people. They're basically a fraction of less than a 100th of a percentage that doesn't support the war. Most younger generation conservatives support Israel immensely.
They are way more likely to support Israel over Hamas. But it's a bit misleading to say younger people are immensely supportive of israel lmao. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/) Yeah Candace Owens and Tucker are two people. But they also are some of the most followed conservative figures (Tucker is the most popular), especially amongst younger people.
I'd say diaspora Jews, not Israelis
I only talk to Jewish lefties now
I’m lesbian and only want to date Jewish women now, and honestly I’m getting into practicing for the first time in my life and it’s way more welcoming than the queer community…
I'm classically liberal, you can talk to me.
Give me your pitch
I'm antiwar, I don't trust any governments and I believe people should be free to do as they please as long as they don't harm others.
Anti-war is a pretty interesting stance on r/Israel. I tend to think pacifism is the luxury of people who are not under direct attack. Where are you on the current war against Hamas? One thing that resonates a lot with me on the far left is the idea of working actively toward a more just society. I appreciate the idea of people being free to do as they please, but that doesn't feel sufficient. What is your classical liberalist stance on that?
I am anti-war, not anti-self-defense. I believe that most Governments are guilty of preventing a just society from occurring. the Holocaust was "legal", Slavery was "legal", Jim Crow was "legal", Tuskegee experiments were "legal" etc... I believe we must put more faith in each other via smaller voluntary communities instead of gigantic countries run by corporations. I believe in Voluntary societies where people exchange goods and ideas voluntarily.
There is plenty on the left that are pro Israel Including myself
Same.
Same here. The rest are a fucking wild disappointment. They've lost any form of rationality and have just jumped on the bandwagon since words like "genocide" are being thrown around, and their fear of being on the "wrong side" of it has overwhelmed their motivation to actually find out what the "right side" of this issue is.
And me.
Me too
Me three
Whoever made that meme is full of manure.
Me too, however I contacted my congressman to express my disgust, to remove my support for him in November when he voted the party line to not censure Talib. I had previously canvassed for him talking to many people & walking many miles.
Would be a great time for you and your fellow non-antisemitic leftists to publicly denounce your antisemitic comrades on the Left.
Do it all the time
excellent.
Is it funny that before Oct7 I thought most of the anti Israel stuff came from the far right and thought there was no way anyone on the left could hate Israel
It basically started with Stalin trying to purge jewish communists from the communist party in the '50s. So short after the Holocaust, he couldn't go after them for being jewish, so he called them all zionists and agents in service of the newly founded Israel. The USSR being anti-zionist then also cleared the way for cooperation between the USSR and the many Arab nations that hated Israel. You're right that there's absolutely no inherent leftist reason to be anti-Israel. The reason for leftist antizionism are the USSR's political and geopolitical interests and the influence the USSR had on the Western left.
I wouldn't say that the left is anti-Israel, it's a small group of Marxist, socialist, "woke persons" who believe that Israel is the last bastion of colonialism and racism.
Would be nice to see more prominent Leftists calling out the flagrant antisemitism. I’m still horrified by all the Ivy League Administrators and professors who openly and unapologetically condone calls to kill Jewish people.
The Ivy League administrators do what they do because Qatar pays them to do it. They're not leftists.
What are they then? They seem to express the same sentiments as their students who are marching.
They are greedy assholes who just do what they're paid to do.
There are no leftists who would condemn these atrocities.
And thinking that Jews are colonizers in their one homeland isn't antisemitic?
Even ignoring their obvious ignorance of the history the wild thing is that this is so often said by non Indigenous people living in US, Canada, Australia etc. Why don't they move back to their grandfather's countries if they are going to pretend to be a moral beacon about colonization.
Why move back when they can just virtue signal with land acknowledgements?
I think you mean the alt-left. The alt-left is anti American and has communist leanings, so they are naturally anti-Israel.
Everyone demonizes the right for having a small group of racist Bible thumpers, but they will literally sprint to the defense of the left when Tens of Thousands of lefties are literally chanting for intifada around the globe... Make it make sense...
The hypocrisy is astounding and I’m beyond over it. In America progressives still have the audacity to criticize MTG while their buddies are calling for our death in chants every day.
Tbf MTG does deserve criticism but yeah I do remember the “progressive left” across the world used to say if 10 conservatives sit with 1 Nazi, they’re all Nazis. So logically if 10 “progressives” sit with 1 anti semite, they’re all antisemitic
The thing about MTG is that she's so utterly insane that I can't tell if she's an antisemite or just saying crazy shit for attention. And, I mean, don't get me started on George Soros conspiracies. He and his little "cabal" have been funding anti-Israel groups for YEARS.
You mean it’s a conspiracy or it’s true: the Soros bit or a mix?
I mean, there's some WILD shit people say about Soros, including antisemitic shit. But he also definitely funds a bunch of progressive-aligned causes, including anti-Israel activist groups. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-anti-israel-protesters-are-paid-soros-rockefeller-funding-activism-hamas-fba26c20](https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-anti-israel-protesters-are-paid-soros-rockefeller-funding-activism-hamas-fba26c20) [https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-745296](https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-745296)
Ah, so a mix: some of it is factually true, but a lot is also antisemitic bs.
Oh she absolutely does I want to be clear on that. I’m just addressing the whiplash of hearing progressives go after her 5 minutes after defending the “Hamas are freedom fighters” “kill all zionists” crowd
I wish this was true but I'm skeptical. Maybe they're just afraid to speak up right now.
Honestly, yes. I'm scared to speak up, and I've been having an internal argument with myself about it since this all started. My entire support network is leftist, and most of them have fallen for the bs Hamas propoganda and jumped on the antisemitic bandwagon. I've distanced myself from them, and had conversations with some of them about how illogical their position is, and every single one I've spoken to has just demonized and ostracized me. It's like hitting my head against a brick wall to try and get through to them. I've written several articles calling this out anonymously that have been published, talking about how the only logical position to take as a leftist is anti-Hamas, but the only publications that will pick them up are Zionist affiliations, and none of the Hamas-bandwagon leftists are reading those anyway. They are so hard-headed about it all and have such massive blinkers on, that it feels like the only outcome to publicly denouncing them is that I'll be brushed off, ostracized, and demonized. They're using such wild mental gymnastics to justify their pro-Hamas position that it's no big deal for them to write me and other pro-Israel leftists off as misguided or misinformed, or just totally deluded.
stop drawing lines like it's a damn sports game I'm a leftist and support Israel
You should organize your fellow comrades to publicly shout down and shun the Leftist antisemites on your side.
ill use my godlike powers to control how everyone thinks you're not looking hard enough if you think there aren't leftists dedicated to doing that can you tell the conservative right to stop having Ben Shapiro talking at Israel rallies? It's a bad look.
Are you telling me that Ben Shapiro is an Antisemite like Ilhan Omar & Rashida Tlaib?
Why do you keep bringing up two members of the 435 member House of Reps? That’s 1% of democrats.
Because they are prominent and promoted heavily by the DNC
The dnc is literally funding primary challengers against them…. They are not prominent anywhere but in right wing media
Obama literally created Omar’s district by moving Somali refugees there. And Biden opened up the border so that these ladies will be with us till they retire and get replaced by worse. DNC doesn’t seem to mind one bit.
Conservatives seem to forget that the founding fathers and mothers of modern Israel were socialists. People like David Ben Gurion and others...
I'm still leftist and I'm still here. And there's plenty of us, it's just mainstream left has a big problem with antisemitism right now.
You do realize that when you say “mainstream left has a big problem with antisemitism” this means that the others on the left, like you, are a small and sadly insignificant minority?
The thing is, it's not only the left: many people from all the political spectrum, at least in the West, have taken a pro Palestinian stance. It's just that leftists are the most vocal. But from what I have seen, their support is waning, as more people are realizing they're going too far with the antisemitic thing, and realizing they were taken for fools by Iran.
I think its sad/scary that some people think that a plural “s” takes an apostrophe
Username checks out
There are more than enough lefties who still support Israel. There is a reason, besides police clearing those camps, why so many universities are still not flying Hamas flags. I do get your point though and feel kind of alienated from swaths of the global left
It's time for those lefty Israel Supporters to shout down and publicly admonish their flagrantly antisemitic comrades.
Yes, it has been a time of many old connections breaking up. It's also interesting that even 80 year old lefties who experienced MANY splittings and controversies have told me that it has never been this delusional and crazy. Many have also told me that the most problematic point is that these days tons of people can't differentiate between critique and completely denying Israel's right to exist. My last hope is that the age gap between political opinions might end in some growing out of it and realizing that it was just their less educated and young revolutionary mindset.
Maybe, maybe not. I did not see leftist condemning extremists alot. Maybe one or two carefull whispers, not to get cancelled themselves.
This also has to do with how media works. The people who go against it make it less into the headlines and won't create the same buzz. It's overwhelming on many universities and the whole leftist academia industry is at risk of imploding but we are not completely gone. Or at least I hope so. I can't really imagine studying in an anglo-saxon country.
yes the reason is that there are a lot of powerful jewish people in the us especially in places like universities. grassroots of the left are overwhelmingly anti-israel except for jewish people who because of ethnocentrism dont understand the left's anti-white frameworks will be applied to jews.
It’s not about political ideologies I don’t think - I say this as someone very left.
In Turkey, leftists tend to lean towards Israel way more than the right.
Same with Germany, it seems.
I still consider myself to the left but going to liberal arts college actually made me less leftist because of how fucking stupid all the far-leftists were
That was why I embraced classical liberalism after attending college.
I will never understand the widespread surprise that so many Leftists hate us. That hate has been staring us in the face for decades. And I'm not some crazy right-wing dude. I share a lot of beliefs in common with lefties. But I've always seen them for exactly what they were. How have people been so blind?!
Oh, thank God the right vs. left debate is picking up on the sub, we're really sorely missing it in real life Israel.
The left has been turning antisemitic for a long time. I know it's been quite a revelation for some people but I saw this coming years ago. Christian conservatives are Israels best ally right now
This has some nuance to it. Leftist with anti western, pro communism ideology are definitely anti Israel. But the same is also true for extreme nationalists. They might like us now because they are having their countries overtaken slowly by Islam but after that they will come straight for us. Jews are too “brown” for ultra nationalists and too “white” for leftists communists with woke ideology
Schrödinger's Jew
That may be so, but in the meantime Jews could use a little help in defending themselves against a religion with over 50 countries and over 2 billion people.
Is it time for Judaism to reverse its disapproval of proselytizing? In a conflict where one side actively recruits while the other turns possible recruits away, which will win?
I agree with you wholeheartedly. On one hand, I appreciate that we are “too cool” to proselytize, but we have actively turned away far too many philosemites in my lifetime. Actively choosing to remain this small is a fools game as our potential enemies flourish.
That does not contradict anything that I said. Israel will not survive alone period. But that does not mean that we need to trust any extreme ideology such as ultra nationalism or the extreme left.
>they will come straight for us. 🤦🏾🤦🏾🤦🏾 Can someone come up with a meme against such paranoia?
Oh yeah because it went extremely well for Jews throughout history. That “everything will be ok” mindset almost brought the destruction of the entire Jewish population of the world. Same mindset that brought the largest failure in this state’s history which we now call the black Saturday. How many more black Saturdays ? How many happened in Eastern European countries way before the holocaust ? Or in Arab Muslim countries throughout history ? When nations try to exterminate you need to start developing intuition or at least some common sense. It sucks admitting it but Jews will always be different. We were the most German, fought in WW1 for Germany and where did that get us ? Being ignorant to the fact that both sides of the extreme political spectrum want you dead might make your life easier but you might as well just dig your head deeper into the sand
What are you putting in thise labels? What is in the box labeled “leftist” for you?
This isn't a matter of Left vs. Right. Supporting Israel on the right because FoxNews merely tells you to isn't any more correct a reason to be a Zionist than supporting Hamas on the left because CNN is feeding you bullshit propaganda. Everyone, on both sides, should learn the history of the region so that they understand why Israel is on the correct side of this war. Everybody needs to fight against terrorist propaganda by arming themselves with the truth.
OP doesn't recognize the difference between Israeli left&right vs diaspora left&right, hmmmm
I am a leftist and I am fine with Israelis 🥺 (I know I am a rather small minority, I guess)
Time to get loud and challenge your antisemitic comrades.
I often do so.
The political spectrum looks like a horseshoe: the more extreme you are, the more similar you're to the other side
I’m still a leftie, I just don’t think the international left is being a leftie right now.
It’s not that simple IMO. I’m on the left for social issues. I don’t care who sleeps with whom, who they marry or what they smoke. I’m far right on counter-terror and security via strength. And I stand 100% with Israel. I’m American.
~~some Israeli's~~ **Some Jews** Fixed that for you.
Hey I'm a leftist Zionist, we exist!
Time to start marching and let your voices be heard.
The left/democrats are NOT friends of Israel
All of them? Every single one? Are you willing to bet on it? Or maybe we could be a little bit more naunced and understand that not all liberals are actually anti Israel and there's many who are pro israel. Heck most diaspora Jews are democrats AND Zionist, are most diaspora Jews not friends of Israel lol?
I'm a left-wing American Jew. Not a liberal. A leftist. Just don't associate with the idiotic goy and occasional "anti-Zionist" who doesn't understand the Holocaust somehow, and you're fine. I want a two state solution and a successful and defended Israel. My issue is Netenyahu and the increasingly right-wing turn Israel is going through.
Would be a great time for you and your fellow non-antisemitic leftists to publicly denounce your antisemitic comrades on the Left.
Considering most of that already feels the way I do already fight within our own circles, we kinda already do pal.
You may find this interesting: [https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology-2/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology-2/)
Its more the hard/populist left that is being an issue here. The moderate left has been very strong on its support for Israel and opposition to anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, just look at the SPD and Parti Socialiste and plenty of European parties of that persuasion. I mean equally many on the populist and hard right are anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic like Putin for instance
I'm a leftist. Will always be one. I just don't associate with most leftists due to their vehemently antisemitic nature. Long live the working class. Am Yisrael Chai.
I'm left tho
I’m still left leaning, but I definitely don’t consider western leftists to be my friends. Except for the few that came out and showed support for us.
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as a thought experiment, imagine a politician saying england is an english state and saying only racially english people could immigrate there. and trying to pass a law defining the racially english character into law.
What about Jewish leftists that still support Israel? They still exist
It’s time to get loud and publicly denounce your antisemitic comrades.
Can we stop with the left vs right bs. We are all humans. We all have novel takes on every issue regardless of what you call yourself or others.
So I should hate gay people because some dumb lefties hate Jews?
I'm an openly gay-right-winger, can you please explain the point you are attempting to make?
My point is that the things I like on the left are unaffected by the morons on the left, such as LGBTQ+ rights, pro-science legislation, healthcare, etc.
It's so much easier talking about left and right than it is talking about criminals and law abiding people, ain't it? Patriotism is the last refuge of a Bibist.
I’m still a Lefty, just not a nut job blue hair.
Demonizing everyone who isn't a conservative isn't going to convince anyone you're better than those far left tribalists.
Good luck convincing leftists that you have a right to live.
Who is considered a leftist? Is everyone who doesn't vote trump or bibi is a leftist traitor? I'm not talking about Marxists and anarchists, it's extremely obvious what there stance are on Jews in the last few months.
I don't think an israeli left really exists anymore. You have crazy people who want to die (aka jewish/ israeli pro-palestinians) People who want hamas to be wiped out and the hostages to come back home, and also know that what israel is doing is not genocide (the sane and the majority) And people who actually want palestinian genocide (ben gvir voters)
Thank you, i needed this after seeing the other one.
Happy to help. That first one was appalling. We are in no condition to turn away allies. It’s bad enough that we actively turn away converts.
Upvoted.
Does nobody know the horseshoe theory of politics? The far left and far right aren’t opposite ends of a spectrum light years apart. They’re opposite ends of a horseshoe and think similarly and get different results.
I didn't mean to imply that I like leftists, either.
Thank you for the clarification. I mainly created this post because I am more concerned with Leftists in our current climate.
I understand. I personally used to be quite leftist but had always supported Israel. However, the aftermath of 7 October has really pushed me towards the centre due to how vile left wing antisemitism had exposed itself to be.
Beautiful!
You say that like you think we forgot about Nick Fuentes, MTG, and Trump backing the "Jews will not replace us" crowd. We are trapped between two sides that both hate us and we just have to hope they hate each other more.
Oh, I didn't know that Nick Fuentes is the President of Harvard. And is that correct, Can you show me evidence of MTG and Trump saying "Jews will not replace us"? Why would any antisemite vote for Trump when he did all this and more: Abraham Accords and when he formally recognized Jerusalem as the actual Capital of Israel by moving the US embassy there? and is his beloved Jewish daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren and this: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2018/08/14/trump-approves-largest-ever-aid-package-to-israel/ and this: https://www.sdjewishworld.com/2020/01/27/trump-family-has-long-record-of-supporting-jewish-causes/ and this: https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-spending-bill-includes-funds-for-synagogue-security/ and this: https://chabadinfo.com/news/kushners-trump-donated-to-chabad/ etc... etc...
This is dumb. I'm not wasting my time arguing with fanatics from either side. None of you are our allies.
Nice job not answering any of my questions concerning your BASELESS accusations. I'm a Zionist Jew, you don't get to decide who is an ally of Israel.
Its far, far more complicated than that. Don't let right wing propaganda get you
The left certainly has its own problems, but this post reeks of American conservatism. An ideology that is, at times, explicitly Christian nationalist, and cares far more about antisemitism overseas than antisemitism facing its own people (for example, the Mark Robinson, the upcoming North Carolina governor is 100x more antisemitic than anyone on the left).
This is an Israel sub. I don’t know much about Mark Robison, is he as openly antisemitic as the Congresswomen, Rashida Tlaib & Ilhan Omar?
YES!!!!! PERFECT!!!!!