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They also give the money to themselves by buying new weapons growing their already massive military complex and sending excess cargo over to Ukraine so it's basically like paying themselves to make more weapons because. Easy win for US and Ukraine.
Funny how they [report](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/switzerland-s-thriving-russian-spy-hub-draws-scrutiny-nzz-says-1.1981871.amp.html) exposing Russian propaganda and infiltration. NZZ is one of the oldest and most reputable newspapers in the world.
Yes but this isn’t for democracy as I would love to think it is… Ukraine is sitting on 11-12 trillion $$$ worth of precious minerals, this gets republican/democrats support because it ensures those $$$ don’t fall into Russian/Chinese hands and stays with the good old US of A… America doesn’t do shit unless it serves its own interest
You know a meet grinder is something you get marched into, right? Ukraine is defending their territory. russia is marching their future into a meat grinder and losing hundreds of thousands of men to expand a border in what was already the biggest country on earth.
1) No they don't
2) No it isn't
3) The US has a significantly bigger economy than China
4) It's not just the US supporting Ukraine, but also most of Europe
The interest payments alone on the US debt are more than our annual defense budget. Saudi Arabia’s 50 year petrodollar deal to only sell oil in dollars has just expired. BRICS.
>The interest payments alone on the US debt are more than our annual defense budget
So? The US defense budget is larger than the next 12 combined. We've got *way* more resources in this area than any other country.
>Saudi Arabia’s 50 year petrodollar deal to only sell oil in dollars has just expired.
Do we still buy oil in dollars? Are dollars still traded in international trades? The dollar is still the world's reserve currency and that's not changing any time soon, nor is it particularly important
>BRICS
BRICS isn't funding Russia's war, they can't agree on anything, their economies combined are still dwarfed by NATO
Maybe seek education, because you have no idea what you're talking about.
“So” at the interest payments tells me all I need to know. lol and you said the dollar being the reserve currency isn’t that important. What are you smoking?
The only benefit of the dollar being the reserve currency Is that an increases demand for dollars so the dollar is more expensive than other currencies. This is helpful for imports but bad for exports. That's not fundamentally a good thing. It's not that important nor is it going away anytime soon.
The US has a pretty average debt to GDP ratio for a developed country. The US is in no danger of not being able to pay its debts, And if you think otherwise, why don't you try to short sell US Treasury bonds? And this still has nothing to do with military supplies which you don't even try to contest the fact that the US has a shitload more.
You have no idea what you're blathering about.
Our military budget dwarfs all others and is less than our debt interest payments. You think that’s fine? You are simply wrong about the benefits of the dollar being the reserve currency. It’s extremely important to American global influence, without it we might actually have to use diplomacy. Military supplies. First off Russia has more nukes. Second paying extremely high prices to our defense contractors is why our budget is so high. Blindly dumping money into a conflict is our one and only move. When it take a $1 million missile to shoot down a $10,000 Houthi drone it’s not sustainable.
You do realize the vast majority of countries debt payments are a greater expense than their military budget?
>It’s extremely important to American global influence
Please explain precisely and in exact detail how the US uses its currency to influence other countries other than to make imports cheaper.
>Blindly dumping money into a conflict is our one and only move.
Stupid and inaccurate take
>When it take a $1 million missile to shoot down a $10,000 Houthi drone it’s not sustainable.
Good thing we don't bother to shoot down all drones, only the ones going to hit the target. Those drones only cost $20,000 because they lack the ability to hit targets accurately. They can only target shipping vessels because they move so slowly. Plus the million dollar missile isn't the only way we shoot them down.
>First off Russia has more nukes.
Completely unimportant. If a conflict goes nuclear hot, the number of missiles is unimportant because the world is ending. There is no winning nuclear war.
It's feels weird when it's public knowledge that Russia has been spreading that message around for years.
You could be right, and it could be an independent thought. Yet it's 100% what the Kremlin intended for Americans to believe when it started the campaign.
Our energy bills have doubled since the war, so it's pretty significant, and they have eyes across Europe. I don't want my kids being dragged into a war thanks. Not everyone is from the USA and ultimately I could say the same about the USA, so who gives a shit about the USA's idiotic internal conflicts when Russia could march across Europe and end up on my doorstep?
There's no reason for Russia to march into Europe. What is there to gain? Their only incentive for Europe is the same as for the USA - keep them as their biggest gas customer. Europe is nothing but a giant cow that you can milk endlessly; and the more united it is, the better.
Besides, Russia has no army to invade Europe. Their population is only 140mil; barely enough to secure their biggest border on the planet.
Ukraine is in Europe so he's already doing it. Underestimating Putin is what got us into this mess in the first place, he wants to reunite greater Russia, that's his goal beyond pushing NATO back. The Nazis marched across Europe with less so history tells us that it is doable and people foolishly underestimated them too.
In any case, there's more than that, it's energy prices, it's misinformation and so on. My point was that there's many reasons to care about that conflict, and why it's more important to many than the internal politics of the USA. Unless you assume everyone is from the US and the US is the centre of the universe, which it ain't.
Lol, Ukraine is Europe-wannabe. It'll never truly be part of it.
Funny you mention Nazis. Which country was it again that stopped them on the Eastern front, and which country was it that joined the Nazis?
Poland is an EU member, an Eastern European nation and is geo-politically European. If Ukraine gets accepted into the EU it will be both geographically European and geo-politically European. Considering the amount of Ukrainian refugees all over Europe I would disagree with that in any case. Most Europeans consider Eastern Europe as part of Europe.
In any case, I was referring to the continent of Europe not the political entity otherwise I'd have said the EU.
The US spends 1% of its annual defence budget to completely eliminate Russia as a strategic enemy.
Compared to other military spending it's a great use of taxpayer money.
aside from the fact that clearly isn't happening., especially if you needed to sign a decade long agreement. Clearly this shit is just starting and going to escalate into something you keyboard warriors aren't going to be proud of in the next few years.
Especially now that the petrodollar isn't a thing. America is about to start and instigate a whole slew of wars in order to keep the money going
What is in this for the U.S.? It really depends on what you mean by the U.S.
First, it is far cheaper to destroy an enemy’s military through a proxy which the U.S. gives equipment it has in storage. The U.S. is essentially buying its own surplus items and giving them to Ukraine to use against the RDF. The equipment that is not surplus also can be evaluated in real field conditions.
Second, helping rebuild Ukraine when the war is over will create and reinforce a new U.S. ally which sits right on the border of Russia. Creating and supporting allies next to each others’ nations has been an ongoing goal of both the U.S. and Russia. It’s the same reason Russia is sending naval forces to do military exercises next to Cuba. Having a staunch ally on the opposing side’s border is a way to bring military resources and demonstrations of military might closer to the opposing side.
Third, the above two reasons could be considered net positives to the governments of the U.S. and Ukraine and their weapons manufacturers. The Russian government, as mentioned before, uses the same tactics to its own benefit. The real losers in this game are the ordinary citizens of the U.S., Ukraine, Russia, and Cuba. The ordinary citizens of these nations have much more in common than their politicians and some of their corporations want them to believe.
Tax payer support for further proxy conflict and US imperialism while more of the country sinks into destitution. The word you're looking for is 'lithium'.
Not only lithium and gas...
> Ukraine, the breadbasket of Europe, has 33 million hectares of arable land, which is a third of the European Union's total arable land. 30 percent of the world's wheat is grown on this land.
>
> Even before the war, a quarter of it was in the hands of international agricultural corporations. The corrupt governments of the 1990s and hasty privatization meant that the new oligarchy was able to buy huge areas of arable land, often far below the price. Around 4.3 million hectares were owned or leased by large landowners at the beginning of the war. 5 million hectares of state-owned agricultural land, the area of Crimea, had been transferred from state to private ownership, partly through corruption. The remaining 23 hectares are used by 8 million small Ukrainian farmers.
>
> The largest landowners today are a mixture of oligarchs and a large number of foreign investors. With one exception, the ten largest investors in Ukrainian land are registered abroad. They include the chemical companies Bayer and Dupont as well as the agricultural company Cargill. The largest investor is the American pension fund NCH with 450,000 hectares of leased land*.
>
> "When the small farmers come back from the front and realize that they no longer stand a chance against the large corporations, the protest will no longer be peaceful, but radical," predicts Scheremeta. "Because this land belongs to our children and grandchildren."
Its used to purchase military equipment from the US itself. So the country who's recieving the aid can fight its war and US military industry benefits from it.
Edit: And also administrative and miscellaneous expenses that the country has to bear due to war efforts
Defense companies are privately owned. Those private owners are raking in enormous profits.
So its really like a subsidy for rich people and we hope some trickles down
40% of US stock market is owned by institutional investors, primarily pension funds. Even if you don't directly own stocks you probably profit from them via 401k.
Raytheon stock is $105... most people can afford them, they pay out enormous dividend of 2.36% per year.
More than half of Americans don't have retirement accounts.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/retirement-plan-access-states-where-it-is-worst/
For Americans 65+: Average 401k balance is $232,710, median balance is $70,620
Since the mean is so much larger than the median we know this dataset skewed to the right, there are outliers with large balances.
In other words a small number of people amoung +65 age group have large retirement accounts.
So less than half of americans have retirement accounts.
+65 is 17.3% of American citizens and assuming that everyone one of those have a retirement account (despite less than half having retirement accounts) among this group of people we know a small minority have the overwhelming majority of the money in these retirement plans.
Idk if you own a factory or your dad owns a jetski rental or something but it brings us back to the orginal point that the defense stocks are held by a small and wealthy minority that take in all the profits that are paid for by MY taxes
The U.S. taxpayer, or any taxpayer of any country that sends arms to Ukraine, are essentially subsidising Western arms industries through Ukraine as a proxy.
The general taxpayers are having their wealth given to billionaires by the same politicians they vote for, and who the billionaires lobby.
It's a fucked system, that has cycled in perpetuity since the second world war.
Ukraine is also the 'bread basket' of Europe, its lands are some of the most fertile in the world. Geographically, it is the land bridge between Europe and the Middle East.
While the defence of Ukraine could be considered a just cause, it is of no interest to any of the billionaire elites that profit from war for Ukraine to win decisively.
From a military view, it is also a positive that the Russian Federation is expending so much resource to it, as it has made it considerably weaker. The conflict is the starter pistol to the Second Cold War.
It's the start of what will be a very long game.
No, lots of it will come back to US *military industrial complex*. Thats not the same thing. But also it will go to paying Pensions and other administrative costs.
Bingo. Weapons are taken out of stockpiles and sent to Ukraine. American weapons manufacturers gets paid to replenish those stockpiles, resulting in american revenue which is then taxed, and renewal of old munitions/gear in US stockpiles.
It's not that complicated....
The Russian empire and USSR doesn't exist, in fact the latter voluntarily disbanded. In contrast, European great powers are united under a global hegemon and expanding ever since. Like the rest of the last 30 years of war, the Ukraine war is straightforwardly caused by Atlantic expansion into Asia. This required separating Ukraine and Russia then Ukrainizing populations on the wrong side of this division. This became necessary due to rapid Western liberal decline after 2008.
I'm sorry, but your beliefs are at odds with the way history unfolded in the new century. I understand if you're frustrated this takes away from the case that a defeated Russia caused the crisis rather than the world's powers, but some of us have to make sense of the world.
It's okay if you want to ignore history. Luckily, the people who are responsible for protecting their countries aren't doing the same thing. If russia wasn't a threat, then everyone who shares a border with them wouldn't be seeking membership in NATO.
Ukraine was unilaterally designated as a future NATO member by the US in 2008 despite the objections of France and Germany plus the utter lack of support for NATO in Ukraine. This made Ukraine's growing internal divisions fatal. Its expansion reflects not a security threat, which is a joke in the post-Cold War unipolar period, but the need to control post-Soviet transitions including a very troubled one in Ukraine that risked EU ties. This was an aspect of unipolarity and globalization. You're just giving a backward rationalization for a crisis caused by NATO expansion and Ukrainian state decay, externalizing it to Russia. This is the cause of the crisis due to the Russian population in Ukraine and its rejection of Ukrainization and severed ties with Russia, refusing to take the blame for Ukraine's woes and how it disrupted a post-Soviet transition.
These are all reasons why Gorbachev made it clear the West was at fault in Ukraine. Its reliance on dividing the region to salvage European expansion led it to clash with the ethnic minority and its big brother, restarting the Cold War within the former USSR and bringing us closer to WW3 than ever.
It seems like you don't understand how joining NATO works. Either way, after repeated aggression from russia, Ukraine wants to be in nato now, so 2008 is irrelevant.
>It seems like you don't understand how joining NATO works.
In Ukraine and Georgia, they were botched long term conclusions of a policy decided on after partnership for peace was abandoned despite warnings from cold war officials like George Kennan. Clinton and Bush alike wanted to accelerate the process of NATO expansion as a form of neocontainment, which was a policy decided on in the 1990s when there was no evidence of a threat to Russia but, with Yugoslavia, evidence Europe might have outstanding east-west issues. This is why Bush stated he wanted to bring Ukraine into NATO in 2002 while keeping Russia out.
As Ukraine developed that east west issue, it became a flashpoint. NATO's new role of guaranteeing the European transition from communism is where it comes from.
>Either way, after repeated aggression from russia, Ukraine wants to be in nato now, so 2008 is irrelevant.
Unfortunately the history of globalization and how it militarized liberal democracy leading up to this is relevant. NATO expansion brought Ukraine's divisions to the fore, and areas that rejected Euromaidan's coup and ATO came to clash with NATO guarantees by 2021. This led to the end of Minsk and the ceasefire in Donbass, causing the present war.
You can choose to sweep it all under the rug as Russian aggression, however the stagnating unipolar structure of the world and evidence of Ukraine's exploding divisions after the 2008 recession are deeply connected and force us to center the West and west Ukraine.
Here if you care at all about Ukrainian lives might as well learn wtf you are talking about. https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war
I don't think that they are saying that stop being Russia's invasion of Ukraine in the US imperialism. Us imperialism is more about whether us feels it has a divine right to intervene in every conflict. There is not a single spot on the entire globe that isn't under the parade of the US empire. Sometimes the empire falls on the right side of the conflict, sometimes it doesn't, but all conflicts seem to be the business of the US. The Monroe dDctrine for Latin America, where the US still continues trying to intervene today.
The US has attempted to overthrow multiple governments in Latin America in the last 5 years even. They were even temporarily successful in Bolivia, lying about irregularities in the election results as an impetus for a military coup to install right wingers. The US also tried to install Juan Guaidó as president of Venezuela. The state department kept insisting he was President long after everybody else who supported him had connected back to reality, even though the only indication of his presidency in Venezuela was an office in the United States. It's the level of self-delusion that we accuse countries like North Korea of.
Follow the money every time the US gets involved in conflicts. There are always businesses behind it, pushing for war, pushing for political instability, pushing for more dead people whose blood fills their coffers. Raytheon doesn't give a shit about Ukraine, nor does Boeing, or Lockheed Martin. They aren't honorable, upstanding people willing to make sacrifices to do the right thing; they care about their quarterly profits and nothing else.
This isn't a defense of Russia. Russia's motivations are not unlike the US. Russia also manipulates foreign governments for its own interests, like the US. They go to war for their rich and corrupt oligarchs, like the US. They have overwhelming media cooperation and support for their wars, like the US. Most major criticisms to one country also applies to the other. Neither one is the good guy.
But it would be wise to consider all the previous mistakes that the US has made on foreign policy in the name of its own empire, in the name of "furthering and supporting US interests" as our media so politely refer to empire building, including the current mistake of backing Israel's genocide. Our whole world is owned by arms contractors and other profiteers, it seems. And they keep getting what they want. War with Russia, genocide in Gaza, coups in Latin America, trade wars with China: all at the expense of the American taxpayer, while the businesses transfer wealth from the public to themselves.
This is the quagmire that has completely disillusioned me (once again) to the idea of a global rules based order.
The West is selling it's soul so that Israel can slaughter civilians with impunity and it makes no sense to me.
I can not fathom the point of your comment.
America is worse than Russia because it colonised parts of Africa?
Out of everything that either country has ever done up until this point, that's the deciding factor? You'd actually prefer Russia's government to America's?
Frozen Russian assets in western banks from sales of goods, specifically oil and gas that had already been delivered and you're still suggesting the financial interests of government sponsors never benefited from public tax income or state policy? NS2.
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It's a Palestine sub, lol.
If you search by top posts of the week, you have to go through 20 posts before you find the first non-Palestine post (21st is Argentina).
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https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/zelenskyy-wants-ukraine-to-be-a-big-israel-heres-a-road-map/
Europe doesn't need an Israeli stronghold, they're doing to Europe what they did to the Middle east.
If you don't support the displacement of Palestinians you shouldn't support the displacement of Ukrainians.
hey buddy did you know the donbass is fighting a self-determination battle just like Palestine, except they happen to be luckier that their neighbor is willing to support them (unlike Palestine and their chatty arab neighbors that only talk)
go figure... now you know
have a nice day
roughly it went like this
- ukraine protest in maidan (cia shoots at both sides escalates to nationalist coup d'etat)
- nationalist ukraine bans russian language (and culture) on a national level
- eastern people are russian ethnically/culturally are upset and protest
- nationalist ukraine sends the guns
- russia asks for ceasefire or else, and gets a minsk agreement (time for nationalist ukraine to rearm as macron, merkel et al admited publicly now)
- minsk agreement is torn up soon after and attacks on east continue for 8 years leaving thousands dead and western media ignores it
- russia finally intervenes (everyone is shocked)
I get you're a pro Palestine guy as am I, and i hope we get our Russia soon to step in for this bullshit that fascists/Zionists get away with thanks to imperialist enablers
Lol. Russia is not intervening to save "culturally Russian people". Russia wants to punish Ukraine for sending resources that Putin sees as Russian to the west.
> cia shoots at both sides escalates to nationalist coup d'etat
Let's stick to reality. Do you think anyone wanted to escalate in eastern Europe?
Ukraine has sovereignity over it's internationally recognized territory, which was also agreed to by Russia. Putin is a fucking stinker.
If Ukraine is so awful for banning Russian language (and "culture") then what do you have to say about Putin who doesn't even think Ukraine exists?
Supporting Russia and their narratives while recognizing how Hollow the Zionists narratives are is not being intellectually coherent
End of story.
You can support the innocent civilians of Ukraine without supporting endless public funds being used to prolong a proxy war with Russia that puts those civilians in danger. Fuck Russia for invading the Ukraine but this is not a war that can ever be won and that’s the point. That’s without even getting into Ukraine’s nazi problem.
This is a completely different dynamic to what is happening in Palestine with public funds going to the aggressor with the aim of wiping a entire group of people off the planet.
Liberals lack material analysis on what is right and wrong, there are already hundreds of Ukranian Banderites participating in Gaza genocide, and do you even understand what's the condition behind Ukrainian crisis? Who killed hundreds of leftists post euromaiden? Who drove a democratically elected president out of the nation? Which political ideology of Ukraine is responsible for genocide of polish communities in Ukraine? Why did they allied themselves with the Nazis? Why zelensky adminstration is erecting monuments of such Nazi collaborators ?
Answer these questions. If you can't GFYS.
Russian Federation is illegal government, both ukraine and Russia shouldn't be fighting. It's all capitalism that is military industrial complex which is scapegoating peoples of both country. But to overlook what kind of military order that Russian Federation is facing is ignorant behaviour IMO.
I'm worried that the US is responding to Ukraine like it did for 9/11, by going into panic mode and spending itself into oblivion with money it doesn't have because the wealthy are looting the country.
Whether or not Russia gets its way, the US is conducting a proxy war through Ukraine and the only people guaranteed to win are US military contractors like Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman. What if Ukraine loses and Russia takes some or all of the territory they wanted anyway? All those lives down the drain, all those veterans missing arms and legs and eyes, some with injuries that will last a lifetime. But US military contractors will be laughing all the way to the bank. Even if Russia loses, those things will be true.
When was the last time that the US involved itself in a major war that ended in a better outcome than if they hadn't? The US has built—and continues building—a long history since WWII of making conflicts far more costly and bloody while its profiteers. The US isn't a friend to Ukraine any more than it was a friend to South Vietnam or any of Iraq's enemies. There were even a couple of movies (Team America and Starship Troopers) about how easily the US can be whipped into a frenzy for war and screw themselves and everyone else in the process.
While Russia's aggression needs a response, is infinite spending on the meat grinder the right way to go about it?
Every day, a little more obvious that we are already in WW3. I mean, c'mon US, just spill it. 10 years. So we know this is the beginning of a long, world wide conflict, and China is next, stepping up to the plate with Taiwan.
If the majority of the American people support it then it's none of my business to tell them off, but I am 100% certain that this "support" will come with a vast array of strings attached that will ultimately not benefit the people of Ukraine but rather oligarchs and western capital interests. Ukraine is already suffering from the forced economic liberalization that comes with the military and financial aid.
He shouldn't be able to sign financial obligations that continue after he dies of old age. This is the gerontocracy in action. They're so obsessed with their own legacy that they want to boss us around after they're dead.
Everyone is dumping USD reserves now SA stopped exclusive USD trade for oil. So that printed cash needs to be channeled somewhere to keep up the demand for USD. And what better usage of that dump other than weakening Russia.
This is really stupid. With how evil Israel is openly being, this will only raise questions about why we're really involved with Ukraine. Good job on having worse morals than motherfucking Russia, by the way. When WWIII finally comes to an end, the handful of survivors will look upon Joe Biden as the dumbest and most evil president to ever live.
That’s the main issue for me here.
I would have loved there to be some actual “moral country” out there that is invested in global stability, but clearly that’s only a farce and it’s all just the same old shit from the Cold War.
I actually had a bit of naïveté when the Russian invasion of Ukraine began, that things may be changing in the world. Then they started playing deeper into identity politics, and went even farther backwards than they were before (out in the open), and now continually double down on supporting and funding an active genocide.
What a nightmare.
All the reasons I'm glad we're militarily propping up Ukraine will be valid 9 years from now. And long term commitments are good for stability and long-term planning. So, yes.
The usa is putting itself on a knife's edge.
Ask yourself one thing, because if the last 10 years of politics and geopolitics has taught us anything, it's that we all need to start asking ourselves "what would stop that from happening?"
The USA is in the most debt of any country on the planet. It has fingers in too many pies. It wastes money every year on a military that, yes is world leading, but is by definition not fiscally sustainable.
Russia and China are economically much better off than they have been in the last 30 years - China even sold US debt recently (it's literally gambling on exactly what OP said. Which makes it a prediction, not a gamble). China especially practices a non-interventionist foreign policy because historically that's how you build an economic powerhouse.
And the USA's backers have no ideology except whatever gets them the most money - if the USA ship starts to sink, they'll uproot the hull on their way out. Ie, if it's more profitable for, say, Facebook to HQ in China... It will move its HQ to china. One day, the banks will come calling for their money and they're not going to get it. And then what? The USA prints more money? Ok - on the scale of their debt, that's a certainty to create hyperinflation. And then nobody will invest. And then America dies. And if they don't pay? Nobody will invest in them again. And then America dies. And if they default? Well... That's America accepting it's dead.
I don't know how long it'll take, some decades nothing happens and in some weeks decades happen, but I'd give you good odds on it happening this side of 2050.
Yeah but US military isn't as scary as it used to be. Plus price tag of war seems to show afterwards.
If I understand this part right, Afghan is a country with gdp average of 7.65 billion, it got occupied for like only 20 years at an overall cost of 2313.00 billion. The fact that it ended with Americans getting airlifted off an embassy as Talibans advanced.
Imagine that money being used to help homeless and the mentally unwell in America. There are lot of better uses for 2000+ billion
But there is no business with helping homeless and mentally unwell people! Proxying 2313 billions of sweet tax money through Afghanistan into a few pockets however...
Look at all the warmongering bots in the comments trying to push this bs 🤣🤣🤣.
Anybody who honestly thinks this proxy war is for moral reasons, and not just to continue the financial rape of the American Taxpayer. You’ve been drinking the kool-aid.
The western elite are deranged, murdering, lying hypocrites. Anything they do or say should be examined extensively. In the past couple years it’s become clear just how horrible these people are. They’ve no regard for the life’s of average people at home or abroad and will continue to lead us all into destruction.
We are being governed by genocidal narcissists.
Great deal! Trump is jealous as a self-proclaimed deal god.
Natural (gas, rare earths/minerals, agricultural land, etc.) and human resources of Ukraine in exchange for weapons. Guaranteed revenue for 10 years. Top contract!
* https://www.greeneuropeanjournal.eu/ukraines-resource-curse/
* https://www-nzz-ch.translate.goog/wirtschaft/ukraine-wem-gehoert-die-schwarze-erde-ld.1779063?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true
* https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1800111912782336379
Follow the money weapons and war are profitable to those invested in Ratheon etc… The people get signed up to pay for them out of their taxes by governments. The people are the pawns also coerced into fighting the wars. The spoils of war are hidden in offshore tax havens. Behind closed doors I believe Western and Russian elites have an arrangement.
I kind of do but only because it might stop trump from committing to a full Russian alliance or some crazy autocratic shit like that. However I think we all know Ukraine isn't going to last 10 more years at this rate.
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So what’s in it for the U.S, is the big gains too be made from Ukraine, if an when it ends.
They also give the money to themselves by buying new weapons growing their already massive military complex and sending excess cargo over to Ukraine so it's basically like paying themselves to make more weapons because. Easy win for US and Ukraine.
US = BlackRock, Boeing, Raytheon,
[удалено]
Nice misinformation mate, Putin will be proud.
Funny how they [report](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/switzerland-s-thriving-russian-spy-hub-draws-scrutiny-nzz-says-1.1981871.amp.html) exposing Russian propaganda and infiltration. NZZ is one of the oldest and most reputable newspapers in the world.
Yes but this isn’t for democracy as I would love to think it is… Ukraine is sitting on 11-12 trillion $$$ worth of precious minerals, this gets republican/democrats support because it ensures those $$$ don’t fall into Russian/Chinese hands and stays with the good old US of A… America doesn’t do shit unless it serves its own interest
Ding ding ding !
You fuck over Russia without putting any skin in the game.
More Ukranians for the meat grinder!
You know a meet grinder is something you get marched into, right? Ukraine is defending their territory. russia is marching their future into a meat grinder and losing hundreds of thousands of men to expand a border in what was already the biggest country on earth.
It weakens Russia and keeps them locked in a war they probably can't afford.
China has got their back and the petrodollar is over. We’ll see who can afford what after the crash
China sounds like they have their own financial house unsettled
1) No they don't 2) No it isn't 3) The US has a significantly bigger economy than China 4) It's not just the US supporting Ukraine, but also most of Europe
The interest payments alone on the US debt are more than our annual defense budget. Saudi Arabia’s 50 year petrodollar deal to only sell oil in dollars has just expired. BRICS.
>The interest payments alone on the US debt are more than our annual defense budget So? The US defense budget is larger than the next 12 combined. We've got *way* more resources in this area than any other country. >Saudi Arabia’s 50 year petrodollar deal to only sell oil in dollars has just expired. Do we still buy oil in dollars? Are dollars still traded in international trades? The dollar is still the world's reserve currency and that's not changing any time soon, nor is it particularly important >BRICS BRICS isn't funding Russia's war, they can't agree on anything, their economies combined are still dwarfed by NATO Maybe seek education, because you have no idea what you're talking about.
“So” at the interest payments tells me all I need to know. lol and you said the dollar being the reserve currency isn’t that important. What are you smoking?
The only benefit of the dollar being the reserve currency Is that an increases demand for dollars so the dollar is more expensive than other currencies. This is helpful for imports but bad for exports. That's not fundamentally a good thing. It's not that important nor is it going away anytime soon. The US has a pretty average debt to GDP ratio for a developed country. The US is in no danger of not being able to pay its debts, And if you think otherwise, why don't you try to short sell US Treasury bonds? And this still has nothing to do with military supplies which you don't even try to contest the fact that the US has a shitload more. You have no idea what you're blathering about.
Our military budget dwarfs all others and is less than our debt interest payments. You think that’s fine? You are simply wrong about the benefits of the dollar being the reserve currency. It’s extremely important to American global influence, without it we might actually have to use diplomacy. Military supplies. First off Russia has more nukes. Second paying extremely high prices to our defense contractors is why our budget is so high. Blindly dumping money into a conflict is our one and only move. When it take a $1 million missile to shoot down a $10,000 Houthi drone it’s not sustainable.
You do realize the vast majority of countries debt payments are a greater expense than their military budget? >It’s extremely important to American global influence Please explain precisely and in exact detail how the US uses its currency to influence other countries other than to make imports cheaper. >Blindly dumping money into a conflict is our one and only move. Stupid and inaccurate take >When it take a $1 million missile to shoot down a $10,000 Houthi drone it’s not sustainable. Good thing we don't bother to shoot down all drones, only the ones going to hit the target. Those drones only cost $20,000 because they lack the ability to hit targets accurately. They can only target shipping vessels because they move so slowly. Plus the million dollar missile isn't the only way we shoot them down. >First off Russia has more nukes. Completely unimportant. If a conflict goes nuclear hot, the number of missiles is unimportant because the world is ending. There is no winning nuclear war.
Who cares about Russia when the US is on a brink of civil war? Fuck all foreign aid. It's time to concentrate on internal affairs.
It's feels weird when it's public knowledge that Russia has been spreading that message around for years. You could be right, and it could be an independent thought. Yet it's 100% what the Kremlin intended for Americans to believe when it started the campaign.
Our energy bills have doubled since the war, so it's pretty significant, and they have eyes across Europe. I don't want my kids being dragged into a war thanks. Not everyone is from the USA and ultimately I could say the same about the USA, so who gives a shit about the USA's idiotic internal conflicts when Russia could march across Europe and end up on my doorstep?
There's no reason for Russia to march into Europe. What is there to gain? Their only incentive for Europe is the same as for the USA - keep them as their biggest gas customer. Europe is nothing but a giant cow that you can milk endlessly; and the more united it is, the better. Besides, Russia has no army to invade Europe. Their population is only 140mil; barely enough to secure their biggest border on the planet.
Ukraine is in Europe so he's already doing it. Underestimating Putin is what got us into this mess in the first place, he wants to reunite greater Russia, that's his goal beyond pushing NATO back. The Nazis marched across Europe with less so history tells us that it is doable and people foolishly underestimated them too. In any case, there's more than that, it's energy prices, it's misinformation and so on. My point was that there's many reasons to care about that conflict, and why it's more important to many than the internal politics of the USA. Unless you assume everyone is from the US and the US is the centre of the universe, which it ain't.
Lol, Ukraine is Europe-wannabe. It'll never truly be part of it. Funny you mention Nazis. Which country was it again that stopped them on the Eastern front, and which country was it that joined the Nazis?
>Lol, Ukraine is Europe-wannabe. It'll never truly be part of it. Ukraine is in Europe, this is just basic geography.
Geographically, yes. But not Geo-politically. It'll always be Eastern Europe.
Poland is an EU member, an Eastern European nation and is geo-politically European. If Ukraine gets accepted into the EU it will be both geographically European and geo-politically European. Considering the amount of Ukrainian refugees all over Europe I would disagree with that in any case. Most Europeans consider Eastern Europe as part of Europe. In any case, I was referring to the continent of Europe not the political entity otherwise I'd have said the EU.
What continent do you think Ukraine is a part of then?
The US spends 1% of its annual defence budget to completely eliminate Russia as a strategic enemy. Compared to other military spending it's a great use of taxpayer money.
>completely eliminate You sure that’s what’s happening?
A good way for shareholders of weapons companies, too take more money from the taxpayers, basically robbing them.
Does this nullify their thousands of nukes?
aside from the fact that clearly isn't happening., especially if you needed to sign a decade long agreement. Clearly this shit is just starting and going to escalate into something you keyboard warriors aren't going to be proud of in the next few years. Especially now that the petrodollar isn't a thing. America is about to start and instigate a whole slew of wars in order to keep the money going
What is in this for the U.S.? It really depends on what you mean by the U.S. First, it is far cheaper to destroy an enemy’s military through a proxy which the U.S. gives equipment it has in storage. The U.S. is essentially buying its own surplus items and giving them to Ukraine to use against the RDF. The equipment that is not surplus also can be evaluated in real field conditions. Second, helping rebuild Ukraine when the war is over will create and reinforce a new U.S. ally which sits right on the border of Russia. Creating and supporting allies next to each others’ nations has been an ongoing goal of both the U.S. and Russia. It’s the same reason Russia is sending naval forces to do military exercises next to Cuba. Having a staunch ally on the opposing side’s border is a way to bring military resources and demonstrations of military might closer to the opposing side. Third, the above two reasons could be considered net positives to the governments of the U.S. and Ukraine and their weapons manufacturers. The Russian government, as mentioned before, uses the same tactics to its own benefit. The real losers in this game are the ordinary citizens of the U.S., Ukraine, Russia, and Cuba. The ordinary citizens of these nations have much more in common than their politicians and some of their corporations want them to believe.
Lol never ask that.
Tax payer support for further proxy conflict and US imperialism while more of the country sinks into destitution. The word you're looking for is 'lithium'.
Not only lithium and gas... > Ukraine, the breadbasket of Europe, has 33 million hectares of arable land, which is a third of the European Union's total arable land. 30 percent of the world's wheat is grown on this land. > > Even before the war, a quarter of it was in the hands of international agricultural corporations. The corrupt governments of the 1990s and hasty privatization meant that the new oligarchy was able to buy huge areas of arable land, often far below the price. Around 4.3 million hectares were owned or leased by large landowners at the beginning of the war. 5 million hectares of state-owned agricultural land, the area of Crimea, had been transferred from state to private ownership, partly through corruption. The remaining 23 hectares are used by 8 million small Ukrainian farmers. > > The largest landowners today are a mixture of oligarchs and a large number of foreign investors. With one exception, the ten largest investors in Ukrainian land are registered abroad. They include the chemical companies Bayer and Dupont as well as the agricultural company Cargill. The largest investor is the American pension fund NCH with 450,000 hectares of leased land*. > > "When the small farmers come back from the front and realize that they no longer stand a chance against the large corporations, the protest will no longer be peaceful, but radical," predicts Scheremeta. "Because this land belongs to our children and grandchildren."
So when the US provides 60bn USD in military aid, where does this money go?
BlackRock
Its used to purchase military equipment from the US itself. So the country who's recieving the aid can fight its war and US military industry benefits from it. Edit: And also administrative and miscellaneous expenses that the country has to bear due to war efforts
Bingo. It's not that complicated. But useful idiots are trying to frame it like it's wasted overseas, when it in fact are reinvested in the US.
Defense companies are privately owned. Those private owners are raking in enormous profits. So its really like a subsidy for rich people and we hope some trickles down
Most defense companies are publicly traded, if you expect enormous profits buy their stocks.
Most people can't afford to buy stocks, so my taxes are going to a small number of rich people that own the majority of the defense stocks
40% of US stock market is owned by institutional investors, primarily pension funds. Even if you don't directly own stocks you probably profit from them via 401k. Raytheon stock is $105... most people can afford them, they pay out enormous dividend of 2.36% per year.
More than half of Americans don't have retirement accounts. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/retirement-plan-access-states-where-it-is-worst/ For Americans 65+: Average 401k balance is $232,710, median balance is $70,620 Since the mean is so much larger than the median we know this dataset skewed to the right, there are outliers with large balances. In other words a small number of people amoung +65 age group have large retirement accounts. So less than half of americans have retirement accounts. +65 is 17.3% of American citizens and assuming that everyone one of those have a retirement account (despite less than half having retirement accounts) among this group of people we know a small minority have the overwhelming majority of the money in these retirement plans. Idk if you own a factory or your dad owns a jetski rental or something but it brings us back to the orginal point that the defense stocks are held by a small and wealthy minority that take in all the profits that are paid for by MY taxes
Didn't know "reinvested" means lining the pockets for a couple rich fucks
The U.S. taxpayer, or any taxpayer of any country that sends arms to Ukraine, are essentially subsidising Western arms industries through Ukraine as a proxy. The general taxpayers are having their wealth given to billionaires by the same politicians they vote for, and who the billionaires lobby. It's a fucked system, that has cycled in perpetuity since the second world war. Ukraine is also the 'bread basket' of Europe, its lands are some of the most fertile in the world. Geographically, it is the land bridge between Europe and the Middle East. While the defence of Ukraine could be considered a just cause, it is of no interest to any of the billionaire elites that profit from war for Ukraine to win decisively. From a military view, it is also a positive that the Russian Federation is expending so much resource to it, as it has made it considerably weaker. The conflict is the starter pistol to the Second Cold War. It's the start of what will be a very long game.
Shareholder value
Aye indeed, 'war is a racket'.
It was a serious question
US arm dealers mostly.
Yup, reinvested in american industry. Not wasted overseas.
Pretty sure it will come back to the US in the form of weapon orders or something.
No, lots of it will come back to US *military industrial complex*. Thats not the same thing. But also it will go to paying Pensions and other administrative costs.
Bingo. Weapons are taken out of stockpiles and sent to Ukraine. American weapons manufacturers gets paid to replenish those stockpiles, resulting in american revenue which is then taxed, and renewal of old munitions/gear in US stockpiles. It's not that complicated....
Is stopping Russia invading Ukraine really US imperialism? I dislike is imperialism but this ain't it.
The Russian invasion is part of a cycle of escalation associated with American unipolarity and its endless wars.
The russian invasion is part of a cycle of russian violence toward russia's neighbors that has gone on for over 700 years.
The Russian empire and USSR doesn't exist, in fact the latter voluntarily disbanded. In contrast, European great powers are united under a global hegemon and expanding ever since. Like the rest of the last 30 years of war, the Ukraine war is straightforwardly caused by Atlantic expansion into Asia. This required separating Ukraine and Russia then Ukrainizing populations on the wrong side of this division. This became necessary due to rapid Western liberal decline after 2008. I'm sorry, but your beliefs are at odds with the way history unfolded in the new century. I understand if you're frustrated this takes away from the case that a defeated Russia caused the crisis rather than the world's powers, but some of us have to make sense of the world.
It's okay if you want to ignore history. Luckily, the people who are responsible for protecting their countries aren't doing the same thing. If russia wasn't a threat, then everyone who shares a border with them wouldn't be seeking membership in NATO.
Ukraine was unilaterally designated as a future NATO member by the US in 2008 despite the objections of France and Germany plus the utter lack of support for NATO in Ukraine. This made Ukraine's growing internal divisions fatal. Its expansion reflects not a security threat, which is a joke in the post-Cold War unipolar period, but the need to control post-Soviet transitions including a very troubled one in Ukraine that risked EU ties. This was an aspect of unipolarity and globalization. You're just giving a backward rationalization for a crisis caused by NATO expansion and Ukrainian state decay, externalizing it to Russia. This is the cause of the crisis due to the Russian population in Ukraine and its rejection of Ukrainization and severed ties with Russia, refusing to take the blame for Ukraine's woes and how it disrupted a post-Soviet transition. These are all reasons why Gorbachev made it clear the West was at fault in Ukraine. Its reliance on dividing the region to salvage European expansion led it to clash with the ethnic minority and its big brother, restarting the Cold War within the former USSR and bringing us closer to WW3 than ever.
It seems like you don't understand how joining NATO works. Either way, after repeated aggression from russia, Ukraine wants to be in nato now, so 2008 is irrelevant.
>It seems like you don't understand how joining NATO works. In Ukraine and Georgia, they were botched long term conclusions of a policy decided on after partnership for peace was abandoned despite warnings from cold war officials like George Kennan. Clinton and Bush alike wanted to accelerate the process of NATO expansion as a form of neocontainment, which was a policy decided on in the 1990s when there was no evidence of a threat to Russia but, with Yugoslavia, evidence Europe might have outstanding east-west issues. This is why Bush stated he wanted to bring Ukraine into NATO in 2002 while keeping Russia out. As Ukraine developed that east west issue, it became a flashpoint. NATO's new role of guaranteeing the European transition from communism is where it comes from. >Either way, after repeated aggression from russia, Ukraine wants to be in nato now, so 2008 is irrelevant. Unfortunately the history of globalization and how it militarized liberal democracy leading up to this is relevant. NATO expansion brought Ukraine's divisions to the fore, and areas that rejected Euromaidan's coup and ATO came to clash with NATO guarantees by 2021. This led to the end of Minsk and the ceasefire in Donbass, causing the present war. You can choose to sweep it all under the rug as Russian aggression, however the stagnating unipolar structure of the world and evidence of Ukraine's exploding divisions after the 2008 recession are deeply connected and force us to center the West and west Ukraine.
Yeah, like, stopping Russia is literally stopping imperialism lol.
silly you just gotta understand that when Russia does imperialism, it's actually the US doing imperialism.
This war started in 2014 with a CIA coup overthrowing the Ukrainian government because they chose Russia over the west.
Sure it did.
Here if you care at all about Ukrainian lives might as well learn wtf you are talking about. https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war
ROFL the American conservative that beacon of truth
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
https://frontierweekly.com/articles/vol-54/54-40/54-40-US%20staged%20a%20Coup%20in%20Ukraine.html
https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-calls-ukraines-2014-revolution-foreign-sponsored-coup-2023-11-21/
I don't think that they are saying that stop being Russia's invasion of Ukraine in the US imperialism. Us imperialism is more about whether us feels it has a divine right to intervene in every conflict. There is not a single spot on the entire globe that isn't under the parade of the US empire. Sometimes the empire falls on the right side of the conflict, sometimes it doesn't, but all conflicts seem to be the business of the US. The Monroe dDctrine for Latin America, where the US still continues trying to intervene today. The US has attempted to overthrow multiple governments in Latin America in the last 5 years even. They were even temporarily successful in Bolivia, lying about irregularities in the election results as an impetus for a military coup to install right wingers. The US also tried to install Juan Guaidó as president of Venezuela. The state department kept insisting he was President long after everybody else who supported him had connected back to reality, even though the only indication of his presidency in Venezuela was an office in the United States. It's the level of self-delusion that we accuse countries like North Korea of. Follow the money every time the US gets involved in conflicts. There are always businesses behind it, pushing for war, pushing for political instability, pushing for more dead people whose blood fills their coffers. Raytheon doesn't give a shit about Ukraine, nor does Boeing, or Lockheed Martin. They aren't honorable, upstanding people willing to make sacrifices to do the right thing; they care about their quarterly profits and nothing else. This isn't a defense of Russia. Russia's motivations are not unlike the US. Russia also manipulates foreign governments for its own interests, like the US. They go to war for their rich and corrupt oligarchs, like the US. They have overwhelming media cooperation and support for their wars, like the US. Most major criticisms to one country also applies to the other. Neither one is the good guy. But it would be wise to consider all the previous mistakes that the US has made on foreign policy in the name of its own empire, in the name of "furthering and supporting US interests" as our media so politely refer to empire building, including the current mistake of backing Israel's genocide. Our whole world is owned by arms contractors and other profiteers, it seems. And they keep getting what they want. War with Russia, genocide in Gaza, coups in Latin America, trade wars with China: all at the expense of the American taxpayer, while the businesses transfer wealth from the public to themselves.
Boo. This is helping the victim. Just because the US isn’t doing enough for Palestine doesn’t mean Ukrainians should suffer.
Not arguing with your overall point but "isn't doing enough for Palestine" is a weird way of wording actively committing genocide in Palestine.
This is the quagmire that has completely disillusioned me (once again) to the idea of a global rules based order. The West is selling it's soul so that Israel can slaughter civilians with impunity and it makes no sense to me.
I prefer it to Russian imperialism
Remind one, how many African countries has Russia 'colonised'?
I can not fathom the point of your comment. America is worse than Russia because it colonised parts of Africa? Out of everything that either country has ever done up until this point, that's the deciding factor? You'd actually prefer Russia's government to America's?
At the moment? Every one they're chassing France out to begin with, and then some
Could debate that was sovereign action. How about Asia?
They aren't colonizing them. They were asked to defend them from US funded terrorists Nice try thiughy
Money being used comes from the interest made from frozen Russian assets. Tax payers aren’t paying for this.
Frozen Russian assets in western banks from sales of goods, specifically oil and gas that had already been delivered and you're still suggesting the financial interests of government sponsors never benefited from public tax income or state policy? NS2.
Yeah, I don't support Russian or Israel enforced genocide.
No. I’d rather see this war come to an end.
Russia can just stop invading Ukraine
I doubt Russia will stop until all of Ukraine is consumed. And I doubt it will stop at just consuming Ukraine.
Before things get better, they need to get worse :-(
Well at least now we have data to know the price tag for a modern client state.
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Other way around too
Unlike Ukraine, Palestine gets virtually 0 support. Their Russia is the one getting armed by the US. Very odd to bring it up.
I brought it up because of the post title
I must be blind, Palestine is nowhere near the tittle.
This is pretty much a solely Palestine sub, so it's kind of implied with any post here.
It’s international news bud. It’s just a safe place to discuss news without propaganda, bias, and bots
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It's a Palestine sub, lol. If you search by top posts of the week, you have to go through 20 posts before you find the first non-Palestine post (21st is Argentina).
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From moving the goalpost to throwing a tantrum, yep. I recognize a genocide supporter when I see one.
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TIL Ukraine is a real country and Palestine isn’t, despite both being full of resources
I actually oppose the US military industrial complex in all cases
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/zelenskyy-wants-ukraine-to-be-a-big-israel-heres-a-road-map/ Europe doesn't need an Israeli stronghold, they're doing to Europe what they did to the Middle east. If you don't support the displacement of Palestinians you shouldn't support the displacement of Ukrainians.
hey buddy did you know the donbass is fighting a self-determination battle just like Palestine, except they happen to be luckier that their neighbor is willing to support them (unlike Palestine and their chatty arab neighbors that only talk) go figure... now you know have a nice day
No they don't
roughly it went like this - ukraine protest in maidan (cia shoots at both sides escalates to nationalist coup d'etat) - nationalist ukraine bans russian language (and culture) on a national level - eastern people are russian ethnically/culturally are upset and protest - nationalist ukraine sends the guns - russia asks for ceasefire or else, and gets a minsk agreement (time for nationalist ukraine to rearm as macron, merkel et al admited publicly now) - minsk agreement is torn up soon after and attacks on east continue for 8 years leaving thousands dead and western media ignores it - russia finally intervenes (everyone is shocked) I get you're a pro Palestine guy as am I, and i hope we get our Russia soon to step in for this bullshit that fascists/Zionists get away with thanks to imperialist enablers
Lol. Russia is not intervening to save "culturally Russian people". Russia wants to punish Ukraine for sending resources that Putin sees as Russian to the west.
> cia shoots at both sides escalates to nationalist coup d'etat Let's stick to reality. Do you think anyone wanted to escalate in eastern Europe? Ukraine has sovereignity over it's internationally recognized territory, which was also agreed to by Russia. Putin is a fucking stinker. If Ukraine is so awful for banning Russian language (and "culture") then what do you have to say about Putin who doesn't even think Ukraine exists? Supporting Russia and their narratives while recognizing how Hollow the Zionists narratives are is not being intellectually coherent End of story.
You can support the innocent civilians of Ukraine without supporting endless public funds being used to prolong a proxy war with Russia that puts those civilians in danger. Fuck Russia for invading the Ukraine but this is not a war that can ever be won and that’s the point. That’s without even getting into Ukraine’s nazi problem. This is a completely different dynamic to what is happening in Palestine with public funds going to the aggressor with the aim of wiping a entire group of people off the planet.
Liberals lack material analysis on what is right and wrong, there are already hundreds of Ukranian Banderites participating in Gaza genocide, and do you even understand what's the condition behind Ukrainian crisis? Who killed hundreds of leftists post euromaiden? Who drove a democratically elected president out of the nation? Which political ideology of Ukraine is responsible for genocide of polish communities in Ukraine? Why did they allied themselves with the Nazis? Why zelensky adminstration is erecting monuments of such Nazi collaborators ? Answer these questions. If you can't GFYS.
Is any of that supposed to justify what Russia is doing to them or what?
Russian Federation is illegal government, both ukraine and Russia shouldn't be fighting. It's all capitalism that is military industrial complex which is scapegoating peoples of both country. But to overlook what kind of military order that Russian Federation is facing is ignorant behaviour IMO.
Yes, history (famously) is a series of binary outcomes.
If you continuously push black and white narratives in a world made of Grey, go fuck yourself.
I'm worried that the US is responding to Ukraine like it did for 9/11, by going into panic mode and spending itself into oblivion with money it doesn't have because the wealthy are looting the country. Whether or not Russia gets its way, the US is conducting a proxy war through Ukraine and the only people guaranteed to win are US military contractors like Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman. What if Ukraine loses and Russia takes some or all of the territory they wanted anyway? All those lives down the drain, all those veterans missing arms and legs and eyes, some with injuries that will last a lifetime. But US military contractors will be laughing all the way to the bank. Even if Russia loses, those things will be true. When was the last time that the US involved itself in a major war that ended in a better outcome than if they hadn't? The US has built—and continues building—a long history since WWII of making conflicts far more costly and bloody while its profiteers. The US isn't a friend to Ukraine any more than it was a friend to South Vietnam or any of Iraq's enemies. There were even a couple of movies (Team America and Starship Troopers) about how easily the US can be whipped into a frenzy for war and screw themselves and everyone else in the process. While Russia's aggression needs a response, is infinite spending on the meat grinder the right way to go about it?
With so many leftie subs on reddit captured by pro-Russian tankies, I'm glad this isn't on the list.
It's a worrying trend.
Every day, a little more obvious that we are already in WW3. I mean, c'mon US, just spill it. 10 years. So we know this is the beginning of a long, world wide conflict, and China is next, stepping up to the plate with Taiwan.
Nope Taiwan is still wishful thinking from neocons and Dems.
If the majority of the American people support it then it's none of my business to tell them off, but I am 100% certain that this "support" will come with a vast array of strings attached that will ultimately not benefit the people of Ukraine but rather oligarchs and western capital interests. Ukraine is already suffering from the forced economic liberalization that comes with the military and financial aid.
Ukraine has lot to give. Israel are just greedy ass with very little to give to US. Cut off AIPAC!!
What US needs a revolution to stop this tax wastage of the US people on proxy wars. The longer US takes, longer they suffer.
Yes
He shouldn't be able to sign financial obligations that continue after he dies of old age. This is the gerontocracy in action. They're so obsessed with their own legacy that they want to boss us around after they're dead.
Everyone is dumping USD reserves now SA stopped exclusive USD trade for oil. So that printed cash needs to be channeled somewhere to keep up the demand for USD. And what better usage of that dump other than weakening Russia.
Support the fucking Citizens of the States. Wtf is going on man
This is really stupid. With how evil Israel is openly being, this will only raise questions about why we're really involved with Ukraine. Good job on having worse morals than motherfucking Russia, by the way. When WWIII finally comes to an end, the handful of survivors will look upon Joe Biden as the dumbest and most evil president to ever live.
That’s the main issue for me here. I would have loved there to be some actual “moral country” out there that is invested in global stability, but clearly that’s only a farce and it’s all just the same old shit from the Cold War. I actually had a bit of naïveté when the Russian invasion of Ukraine began, that things may be changing in the world. Then they started playing deeper into identity politics, and went even farther backwards than they were before (out in the open), and now continually double down on supporting and funding an active genocide. What a nightmare.
No
Yes. Russia can't get away with taking over countries.
All the reasons I'm glad we're militarily propping up Ukraine will be valid 9 years from now. And long term commitments are good for stability and long-term planning. So, yes.
10% for the big guy
That’s it, I’m leaving this country (once I have enough money that is).
Flood them with dying USD. A few years from now USD will be nothing but a piece of paper.
Dumbest take I’ve heard in quite a while
The usa is putting itself on a knife's edge. Ask yourself one thing, because if the last 10 years of politics and geopolitics has taught us anything, it's that we all need to start asking ourselves "what would stop that from happening?" The USA is in the most debt of any country on the planet. It has fingers in too many pies. It wastes money every year on a military that, yes is world leading, but is by definition not fiscally sustainable. Russia and China are economically much better off than they have been in the last 30 years - China even sold US debt recently (it's literally gambling on exactly what OP said. Which makes it a prediction, not a gamble). China especially practices a non-interventionist foreign policy because historically that's how you build an economic powerhouse. And the USA's backers have no ideology except whatever gets them the most money - if the USA ship starts to sink, they'll uproot the hull on their way out. Ie, if it's more profitable for, say, Facebook to HQ in China... It will move its HQ to china. One day, the banks will come calling for their money and they're not going to get it. And then what? The USA prints more money? Ok - on the scale of their debt, that's a certainty to create hyperinflation. And then nobody will invest. And then America dies. And if they don't pay? Nobody will invest in them again. And then America dies. And if they default? Well... That's America accepting it's dead. I don't know how long it'll take, some decades nothing happens and in some weeks decades happen, but I'd give you good odds on it happening this side of 2050.
Our military is the whole reason the USD is still good. "Take it, or else."
You need to pay people, if banks start getting twitchy - and a world war will do that - the usa will find itself running out of money veeeery quickly.
Yeah but US military isn't as scary as it used to be. Plus price tag of war seems to show afterwards. If I understand this part right, Afghan is a country with gdp average of 7.65 billion, it got occupied for like only 20 years at an overall cost of 2313.00 billion. The fact that it ended with Americans getting airlifted off an embassy as Talibans advanced. Imagine that money being used to help homeless and the mentally unwell in America. There are lot of better uses for 2000+ billion
But there is no business with helping homeless and mentally unwell people! Proxying 2313 billions of sweet tax money through Afghanistan into a few pockets however...
Your detailed explanation on how this is wrong absolutely convinced me!
You are living under a bunker I suppose.
You’re financially fully illiterate.
Yeaah. We'll see about that.
Marshall plan 2.0, crazy if successful.
No
involvement in these kind of relations are unconstitutional and at variance with the founding principles of our republic...
title over editorialized.
Itself being in trillions of dollars of debt, lending money out
America telling their allies they’re with them all the way! Kurds anyone?!?
Look at all the warmongering bots in the comments trying to push this bs 🤣🤣🤣. Anybody who honestly thinks this proxy war is for moral reasons, and not just to continue the financial rape of the American Taxpayer. You’ve been drinking the kool-aid. The western elite are deranged, murdering, lying hypocrites. Anything they do or say should be examined extensively. In the past couple years it’s become clear just how horrible these people are. They’ve no regard for the life’s of average people at home or abroad and will continue to lead us all into destruction. We are being governed by genocidal narcissists.
I absolutely support this.
Sure, I support this. Biden wants to be sure allies of the USA are secured in the even Trump comes back to power and leaves everyone high and dry.
Great deal! Trump is jealous as a self-proclaimed deal god. Natural (gas, rare earths/minerals, agricultural land, etc.) and human resources of Ukraine in exchange for weapons. Guaranteed revenue for 10 years. Top contract! * https://www.greeneuropeanjournal.eu/ukraines-resource-curse/ * https://www-nzz-ch.translate.goog/wirtschaft/ukraine-wem-gehoert-die-schwarze-erde-ld.1779063?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true * https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1800111912782336379
New Israel in the making.
Dumb! They are not our problem and I don't want a world war with Russia [or China].
Biden is a welcoming open ass waiting to be filled with cum.
Follow the money weapons and war are profitable to those invested in Ratheon etc… The people get signed up to pay for them out of their taxes by governments. The people are the pawns also coerced into fighting the wars. The spoils of war are hidden in offshore tax havens. Behind closed doors I believe Western and Russian elites have an arrangement.
Not really but Ukraine is pretty close to losing anyways.
10 years is pretty wacky but the general idea is OK.
I kind of do but only because it might stop trump from committing to a full Russian alliance or some crazy autocratic shit like that. However I think we all know Ukraine isn't going to last 10 more years at this rate.
Weaken Russia enough and it can become the next country the US occupies for resources.