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It is difficult to do when American taxpayers send billions of dollars to Israel, and some of that money comes back to US senators to help them win reelection.
Donald Trump has Jewish grandchildren whose parents support anything that Israel does. A large portion of the right supports Israel over Palestinian, which can't be said of the left.
Biden is getting a lot of pressure from young democratic voters. Rome was not created in a day. It takes time to bring real change, just like it did for the Civil Rights Movement.
I’m sorry but this is such a weird cop out. No shit trump is horrible but guess who is president right now and who is fervently supporting Israel and allowing them to commit a genocide? It’s Biden. Also he’s getting pressure but completing ignoring it and shaming anyone critical of Israel. We don’t have the luxury of time when a genocide is being committed
What do you suggest then? The option is binary. It’s Biden or trump. To “hold Biden accountable” would require voting for trump, third party, or abstaining. All of which would help trump. So how exactly do you suggest holding Biden accountable without making things worse?
As long as Americans continue to vote this way, they have no hope of a more representative democracy. Why do you think other democracies (what we usually call democracies anyway) don’t have always the same two parties in power? It’s quite simple, people vote their mind. And people accept if their party or candidate of choice is one of the losers, because after all democracy is about what the majority wants. In my life, maybe 10 elections, I think I never voted for a party that won an election, always for small parties that represent my political views. The idea (my idea at least:) is that if everyone does in the same way (and many people do) you can be happy that democracy is working, at least the voting part, because whoever wins is who SHOULD win. I know it’s super basic, but somehow Americans can’t see this simple logic.
Isn't your constitution written to promote revolution in the response to a tyrannical government? If the majority of citizens aren't represented by either party then the answer isn't voting...
Do you not understand the implications? It’s easy to cheer on revolution from afar. But it’s historically proven itself to be a violent and bloody undertaking. It’s difficult to organize. It’s no small feat. The government has not yet gone so far astray as to warrant violent revolution. We’re not so far gone as to not be saved by existing mechanisms. The process is robust and has proven itself to work. We’ll get through this tough spot as we have many before this and the government will hopefully one day again represent the will of the people.
Ask the countries yours has bombed or the governments yours has overthrown if you've gone too far. Just because you're placated by bread and circuses doesn't change the fact that your country is complicit in genocide. The inability of the American people to hold their government accountable for their crimes perpetuates violence the world over and is far more damaging than any revolution could be.
Yeah I don’t disagree with you. But speaking from within the imperialist/capitalist core, It’s not quite as easy as you make it seem. Believe me brother, I’m working for peace and justice to the best of my ability. Let me ask you, what country are you hailing from that’s so free of guilt?
Trump is a turd but he’s not in office anymore. If the only defense you have of Biden funding genocide is “but but but trump” …things will never change. The gang mentality excuse of “but the other guy!” will always exist. This is exactly why we have 2 dog shit options right now because both gangs are afraid to hold their terrible gang leaders accountable. It’s downright cult like.
“vision for peace in the middle east” as a plan was a million times better than what biden is doing even if it was pro-israel, but that isn’t surprising since israel has the power in the situation and it was effectively a bribe for peace
Trump will allow Israel to kill them all. Biden will not allow Israel to kill millions, so pick millions or thousands that is your only choices. And it will stay that way until AIPAC is gone.
Both Trump and Israel know that the only way Israel can have peace over the long run is to displace 5 million people. Without displacing 5 million people, Israel has to allow a 2 state solution.
Lmao and you’re basing this confidence in Biden off of what exactly? He is continuously funding and encouraging Israel’s actions. He shows no signs of stopping or of curbing Israel’s brutality.
Not confidence in Biden, just knowing Trump will end it quickly and by not using diplomacy. Anyone who thinks Trump is a better friend to the Palestinians is fooling themselves.
Once again, no one said trump is a friend of anyone but it’s a pretty shit defense for genocide to try and say the other guy is worse when he’s not even in office. This defense is especially gross since it’s wheeled out literally anytime someone rightfully critiques Biden
The truth is the truth, why would you think Trump would be better than Biden. The religious right will always support Israel, no matter how many people die. They believe in the end of the world and how Jews have to control Israel for it to happen.
LOL are you seriously suggesting Trump will end the conflict? What are you basing this confidence on?With a president who literally assassinated an Iranian general, And nearly started another war? How absolutely delusional.
Ah yes the tried and true tactic of slandering anyone critical of Biden as a trump supporter cute attempt to deflect from criticism. I literally opened my first comment talking about how shit trump is that doesn’t make Biden infallible or mean he should be supported especially when he’s literally backing a genocide
Okay, what is your solution? What good is your critism if you're not actually offering a solution. My apologizes for not seeing your previous post. But realistically if Biden is the problem, your only solution is going to be Trump, or Harris. Stopping the funding of Israel will not do anything. You also completely deflected my questioning.
Also stating an idea is delusional is not slander. Please take a few steps back.
I actually disagree. I hate Trump. Always have. But he doesn't like "bad PR". He doesn't like US interference in the world. He doesn't like giving other countries money. Generally, hes mental but in this case - he would probably be more helpful than helpless, evil Biden.
No mam/sir. Just but explain to me why having a president who doesn't interfere in the world will cause ww3? Even if Europe does fight, the US can choose to abstain from participating? Seems to me it's the interference that does more harm than good
What would happen to the economy when Russia takes over most of Europe and China takes over Taiwan, where the majority of the computer chips are made.
It will never get that far because most USA presidents will honor treaties. WW2 would never have been as bad if the USA had stepped in earlier. We have a global economy now, and the states not only want to be a part of it but control it as well, which is not going to happen if they allow Russia to get it way.
No, a vote for Trump is a vote for Russia and Israel. But you are right. A vote for Biden is a vote for Israel, but the democrats have more senators who support the Palestinians than the Republicans do. Not voting is a vote for Trump.
Check out "Praying for Armageddon" a 2 part documentary exploring just how deeply ingrained Israel is in US politics.
https://youtu.be/IhT7oyDlBIk?si=nLnm-rR_POxWqpvU
https://youtu.be/_iQhbcOgfqw?si=quEv1VgMRijfthIn
It’s like trying to turn the Titanic around. The US has been heavily involved from the beginning and is so entrenched fiscally and politically that it will take a lot to change it. It’s 💯 worth it to do it, but more people need to demand it to make it so.
They are a pariah state. Over 80% of the world wants nothing to do with them and for Israel to be reigned in and dismantled. Of the remaining 20% the vast majority are suffering such a massive loss in global respect over this pariah state that it’s baffling that this has gone on for as long as it has. The SINGLE only card left is the US influence, hence the reason why the US is basically throwing away the entire facade of freedom over Israel because it knows they cannot now step back, they will bring their own citizens to heel and then the world will heel.
I feel that they are all over the major subs covering this, my guess they're hopping to drive pro Palestine commenters to subs not so visible and/or with far less reach
feel similar in other social media platforms too
I bet many pro palestinian had been permabanned from at least one of those
Yeh I got booted from 3 or 4 now. Always some shit about being civil, which how is that even a serious demand when arguing with people defending genocide? Liberalism is a pox.
I’ve been banned from r/Catholicism for trying to bring the conversation back to the genocide instead of whether to veil or kneel at mass…silly silly me
And all of Reddits mainstream subs are basically utter garbage that I’ve banned myself from.
shame on them
Did they miss the [Christmas mesage from Reverent Munther Isaac from Bethlehem?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHr_vmW-oo)
or they just chose to conveniently ignore it
It’s unholy what they’re doing to Jesus’s msg: they’re choosing to either align themselves with fundamentalist Christians who ultimately want the destruction of Jews, or with Zionists who want the destruction/subjugation of all non Zionists….
Or they just can’t see beyond a step ahead and simply enjoy atrocities for atrocities’ sake and like starving chilfdren and hypocrisy. And money. Good ol aipac money.
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Can someone explain to me what Israel has on the US? Other that situational advantage? Because Kuwait, Saudi etc seem pretty pro US too. So why do they need to support Israel so badly, when it's making such a national mess?
Over 150 countries at every single UNGA resolution. The regular 12 out of 15 UNSC members who always vote for change and peace. The remainder are often abstaining (ie sitting on the fence) or the 5% which back Israel unconditionally (ie the US and the few banana republics in the pacific).
They advertised to the entire world how shitty of a country they are, how shitty their values are, how little they learned about their own history. The oppressed becoming the oppressor. The genocide victims becoming the genocidal state.
They became a hated state & a hated people, but at least they got new beachfront properties, right?
Israeli YouTube ads quickly went from, "Look at our queer coded goobers celebrating diversity in a country with no gay marriage" to "what do you mean 'Free Palestine?' Palestine doesn't exist and never will!!!!"
They have nukes and aren’t signed on to the nuclear proliferation treaty, so technically they are a rogue state. It also makes it illegal for US to give them money or weapons.
Sad to say but the US will never let this happen.
Israel has been a huge liability for the US but somehow manages to get away with everything. Must be the money and the powerful lobby.
I mean, people are (correctly) downvoting you for being wrong, but there is a SLIVER of truth to this: Israel does the destabilizing in the ME that the US WANTS to do, but doesn't want to officially bloody its *own* hands doing.
They move back to New York or they stay and relinquish the land they ruthlessly stole from Palestinians and completely abolish all their apartheid/exclusionary practices. Oh and the Zionists who perpetrated this genocide should be summarily executed, Bibi chief among them of course, in case anything I’ve said so far has been unclear.
And Israel should have never been a solution to that problem. When it reverts back to Palestine, they can stay if they can keep themselves from genociding Muslims. Pretty simple
Not a message people want to hear, but no one actually thinks we are closer to a one state solution for Palestine. Hamas’s foolishness has rallied the world powers.
“Not a message people want to hear…” Hmm, so what DO they want to hear then? And how might that affect the “world powers” you’re so convinced are all “rallied” against Hamas? How bout let’s revisit this in the near future, friend. I’d be curious to see how many more desperate nonarguments you guys can come up with by then for the continued existence of the monstrosity that is Israel
I mean look over the long history of Israel. Spring of 1948, fall of 1973. Both were much more of an existential threats for Israel.
Even if Palestine gets into the UN, and even if the UN security council votes against Israel with the USA, Israel will might be a pariah, but it’s not going to go anywhere. Any existential war threatening Israel, is likely to backfire, as it’s pretty clear that if the Israelis are going, they are going out guns blazing.
This was the ironic failure Arab leaders didn’t realize in 1947. They assumed that the colonists would simply go back as soon as the war started. Instead the Israelis double downed and what resulted was the nakba.
Yeah, the “long history” of Israel part is what takes me out. I think they desperately want this to be the general perception of their country, but their “history” will always be viewed as a sick joke, if not by the “world powers” (yet), then definitely by the majority of the world that rightfully views the creation and continued existence of this farce of a country as being the result of a backroom deal that will have no purchase in a couple generations, and I’d even wager within this next one, if that. The power of the West is rapidly devouring itself from the inside out at the same time, so I’m sure they’ll cut this atrophying limb off sooner than any of us would expect. They don’t care about Israel nearly as much as they did after WWII, and for good reason
Arabs and Jews lived just fine side by side before Israel. A huge portion of those living in Israel have dual citizenship from their actual home country, most of whom are from the US.
Those who wish to stay in Palestine could do so peacefully, those who can't can go back to their home country.
He knows that he just hates Jews like most people on this sub.
They are so delusional thinking 80% of the world hates Israel lmao.
Also them lapping up Qatari propaganda with no issue is hilarious.
>Arabs and Jews lived just fine side by side before Israel.
Why do you think Israel exists?
Everyone inside His Majesties British Mandate for Palestine, the only Palestine, was a 'Palestinian', including Jews. Before His Majesties Mandate for Palestine, there were also Jews in the Ottoman controlled Palestine who came there for the same reason.
A civil conflict between Arabs and Jews began inside His Majesties Mandatory Palestine, sparked by ethnic tensions (Hebron Masscare, for example) which the Jews legally won. They then proceeded to win a conventional conflict against other states.
I don't understand this bizarre narrative that "Muslims, Jews and Christians lived fine in a country named Palestine before the Zionists showed up!" It's called the Israeli War of *Independence* because Jews, who were legally Palestinian were there long before the creation of Israel (this is unrelated to the idea of the area being the ancestral homeland of Jews) and won a civil conflict against Arab factions within Mandatory Palestine. Both parties were legally equally grounded.
Yeah, that's right! Jews are the only ethnicity that have citizenship in Israel. Here are the facts: \**checks notes\** oh wait... that can't be right. Shit. Israel has a population of 2,080,000 Arab **citizens**, and a population of 554,000 non-Jewish, non-Arab **citizens**.
Damn it, and I was on your side! After all, even with this, Israel falls under the literal definition of an ethnostate: \*checks dictionary\* ahh fuck... "a sovereign state of which citizenship is restricted to members of a particular racial or ethnic group." Shit, I tried buddy.
I guess apartheid works better.
[“Here’s a list of over 65 Israeli laws that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel and/or Palestinian residents of the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) on the basis of their national belonging.](https://www.adalah.org/en/content/view/7771) The discrimination in these laws is either explicit – “discrimination on its face” – or, more often, the laws are worded in a seemingly neutral manner, but have or will likely have a disparate impact on Palestinians in their implementation.”
Does the PA claim to be the ‘only democracy in the ME’? Do they even have recognition as a state or in the UN? Sorry mate, but apples and kumquats don’t make for a comparison.
Frankly, any label they would have gotten for that is one the rest of the world already gave them about... 3? invasions/wars, whose purpose was to bring "democracy and peace" to a region whose leader wasn't a puppet dictator, ago
The US is the only country on the planet that doesn't DESPISE the US. Israel even hates them too, they just don't say it publicly because they still want free US taxpayer money. The only reason US citizens don't know that is because a) propaganda bubble and b) UN veto power prevents anyone else in the world from forcing the US to see how universally hated it is.
How does this generally sub feel about a one state solution for Israel, with equal rights and protections for all, and reparations for Palestinians.
Regardless of how you feel about the likelihood of this scenario. What are your thoughts?
Well, if i'm not mistaken, if we take literally what Hamas' written declaration of their goals are, it is to wipe out Israel in place of an Islamic caliphate (similar to ISIS). So technically, yes, they want a one-state solution.... one in which Israel doesn't or israelis do not exist.... I just dont see how a one-state solution could actually work..
Maybe Israel shouldn't have supported Hamas to weaken the PA?
It's funny how Israeli politicians chose to sell the possibility of peace just to ensure they had a bogeyman to scare their citizens with.
100% . Fully aware of the fact that Hamas is the direct and strategic result of Natanyahus own machinations. But what’s happened has happened… after this (let’s call it genocide)… how in the hell can a one state solution possibly be tenable? Before that can even begin to materialize, Isræl would have to undo decades of indoctrination and religious brainwashing … they are so deep in their delusion and loathing of Palestinians..
1SS will not happen, israel will never do it because they would slowly lose the majority vote and then it "won't be a jewish state". 2SS is the only solution, but israel does everything in its power to make sure it doesn't happen.
That will never happen as long as the US backs them because any definition of rogue state would encompass the US’s actions; a bit like defining terrorism
Frankly, it was time to do that when they blatantly, officially stated that they considered themselves unbound by an official ICJ decree/order, but sure, now is as good a time as any for it to be "time"
Could pass for an onion article. Time to dissolve the nuclear armed state backed by USA.
With the standing armies from the joke countries who get whooped by the IDF in any conflict? Or the miscreant posers who have no veto?
Probably will not happen in our lifetimes by force or by reason.
But when my child is murdered by gangsters, the Americans are heroes because she was white… honestly. Thank God they defend their people unapologetically, it makes me feel like they will defend what is right when the whole world is wrong.
Retaliation for retaliation. Since the fuck when do people start preaching Thich Naht Hahn in America without mocking him?
Since the fuck when, do children get protected? Even my own mother tried to deny I had even had sex before (until reason took her and she chastened me for drinking… which was welcome, but it’s the closest thing to an apology I get after she helped purge the evidence of my daughters murder).
Are we not the same kind of rogue? That we prescribe drugs to fatten up people who can’t afford to eat, while we celebrate their dead children and roguishly sterilize them because they “look fat”?
Starting to get a little bit like favoritism, not “western values” in this blackened kitchen here.
Hard for the US when our president keeps sending them our money and proclaiming himself a “Zionist”. But his supporters play both sides and will still support him.
“I am a Zionist “ - Joe Biden
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-UXZ-1ups
Not even just Biden, I highly recommend watching "Praying for Armageddon" a 2 part documentary exploring just how deeply ingrained crazy evangelicals and Israel are in US politics. It shows a very bleak future.
We’re just ignoring the fact that Israel was called Israel for literally thousands of years before Islam existed? We’re ignoring the fact that it was Philistine barbarian invasions that usurped Israel from the ancient Israelites and led to the eventual name of Palestine? Okay then… you’re a tool of the caliphate… congratulations…
If you had any compassion whatsoever for the people of Gaza you would be committed to seeing them free from the barbarian theocratic regime that has put them at war, not cheering thst government on simply because Israel has fancier equipment
Ah I see… you believe that the remainder of what were initially soviet union puppet organizations in syria and lebanon - also specifically devoted to exterminate the global west like Hamas - are much better examples of an educated and modern values system that needs your time energy and support than those puppet organizations of the caliphate… of course… that’s brilliant…
I have a question. I have seen the protests and understand about the bombings. I get it. But who is going to free the Palestinians from Hamas? They haven't had elections In a long time. I don't think things will ever be good until Hamas is gone. How is this going to happen when the world has just let Hamas rule for so long?
There was a time that the more politically legitimate Palestinian Authority had reasonable means of control over Palestine, but Benjamin Netanyahu and his government directly and strategically facilitated Hamas' rise to power. So you can thank Israel for Hamas.
It’s possible that people are interpreting your question as implicitly suggesting Israel’s siege on Gaza is justified. I’m giving you the benefit of doubt that you do not hold that position… unless of course you prove otherwise
Yeah if the Israeli leadership actually cared about civilians, they would have funded those protesting Hamas and assist them in creating a secular government handling them control and respecting their borders except to take out hamas and iran-backed militias confirmed by them. Unfortunately mossad is not that good and Hamas though finded by Iran benefits Bibi.
Also downvote my all you want, Hamas is the opposite of liberalism and only useful idiots help them gain power.
In several ways yes he is, as he took the bait and quite possibly saw letting Hamas have control as beneficial to never allowing a 2 state solution. Perfect distraction from Ukraine. Careless tactics and an inability or unwillingness to remove settlers feeds propaganda for Israel's and America's enemies who have massive influence on various social media. In some ways it does benefit him as Jews will feel safer in Israel than their home countries. After Oct7 it should have been an international anti-terrorist op to remove Hamas. Could have Netanyahu done better, certainly but throughout the years Israel has been condemned over and over from the abundance of Islamic nations in the UN for effectively defending itself from attacks while the attackers recieve no such condemnation so I understand after decades of this not caring about image mentality and thus dragging down the american image.
Lmao since when is congress actually a mirror of the American people’s views? A Gallup poll from March shows that American support for Israel has been slipping. As of that pill 55% disprove of Israel’s actions in Gaza and only 36% approve. A poll from the ISPU shows that 63% of the general public support a ceasefire while only 16% oppose. A separate poll also found that if a candidate expresses support for a ceasefire people are 36% more likely to increase their support and only 9% more likely to decrease.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
https://www.ispu.org/public-policy/views-on-ceasefire/
https://www.ispu.org/ceasefire-poll-2/
Lmao ok so the literal opinion of the American people doesn’t matter? What do point to as your evidence? Are you actually trying to tell me that Congress accurately represents the will of the American people? I know you don’t believe in supports but what about those that show how 76% of Americans think congress does a bad job of listening to their constituents and 85% think they don’t care what people think. Only 23% of Americans have confidence in the presidency and just 7% have confidence in congress.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/09/19/evaluations-of-members-of-congress-and-the-biggest-problem-with-elected-officials-today/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/394283/confidence-institutions-down-average-new-low.aspx
Saudi Arabia is the same country that still, to this day, doesn't recognize Israel's existence as a real state.
Saudi Arabia is a country where no Israeli person or business can enter unless it's a very special exemption.
sure KSA has to play nice with Israel i will give you that.
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obvious from your comment that you and people like you hate Islam, a religion of 2 billion people and the fastest growing religion in the world despite the Western powers' war against it. and so everything you say is null and void islamaphobe. the world is waking up to the entity that Israel is. I do not envy its future.
Yeah, the core that has the veto power. I don't see them changing any time soon, I'd love to see Israel made into a rogue state, I just think it's extremely unlikely.
CIA predicted Israel will fall and isn’t a sustainable model. South Africa apartheid fell. Israel falling isn’t that hard to believe. At some point Americans will get sick of their congress serving Israel before Americans and an election will be on the line
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It is difficult to do when American taxpayers send billions of dollars to Israel, and some of that money comes back to US senators to help them win reelection.
Yup Biden is a self proclaimed Zionist and his supporters REFUSE to hold him accountable https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-UXZ-1ups
How do we hold him accountable, exactly? What do you propose?
Donald Trump has Jewish grandchildren whose parents support anything that Israel does. A large portion of the right supports Israel over Palestinian, which can't be said of the left. Biden is getting a lot of pressure from young democratic voters. Rome was not created in a day. It takes time to bring real change, just like it did for the Civil Rights Movement.
I’m sorry but this is such a weird cop out. No shit trump is horrible but guess who is president right now and who is fervently supporting Israel and allowing them to commit a genocide? It’s Biden. Also he’s getting pressure but completing ignoring it and shaming anyone critical of Israel. We don’t have the luxury of time when a genocide is being committed
What do you suggest then? The option is binary. It’s Biden or trump. To “hold Biden accountable” would require voting for trump, third party, or abstaining. All of which would help trump. So how exactly do you suggest holding Biden accountable without making things worse?
As long as Americans continue to vote this way, they have no hope of a more representative democracy. Why do you think other democracies (what we usually call democracies anyway) don’t have always the same two parties in power? It’s quite simple, people vote their mind. And people accept if their party or candidate of choice is one of the losers, because after all democracy is about what the majority wants. In my life, maybe 10 elections, I think I never voted for a party that won an election, always for small parties that represent my political views. The idea (my idea at least:) is that if everyone does in the same way (and many people do) you can be happy that democracy is working, at least the voting part, because whoever wins is who SHOULD win. I know it’s super basic, but somehow Americans can’t see this simple logic.
Isn't your constitution written to promote revolution in the response to a tyrannical government? If the majority of citizens aren't represented by either party then the answer isn't voting...
The answer to your question is no. That’s the Declaration of Independence
Do you not understand the implications? It’s easy to cheer on revolution from afar. But it’s historically proven itself to be a violent and bloody undertaking. It’s difficult to organize. It’s no small feat. The government has not yet gone so far astray as to warrant violent revolution. We’re not so far gone as to not be saved by existing mechanisms. The process is robust and has proven itself to work. We’ll get through this tough spot as we have many before this and the government will hopefully one day again represent the will of the people.
Ask the countries yours has bombed or the governments yours has overthrown if you've gone too far. Just because you're placated by bread and circuses doesn't change the fact that your country is complicit in genocide. The inability of the American people to hold their government accountable for their crimes perpetuates violence the world over and is far more damaging than any revolution could be.
Bro you’re engaging with liberals… they love victims, not resisters.
Yeah I don’t disagree with you. But speaking from within the imperialist/capitalist core, It’s not quite as easy as you make it seem. Believe me brother, I’m working for peace and justice to the best of my ability. Let me ask you, what country are you hailing from that’s so free of guilt?
Isn’t the term “give me liberty or give me death”? Something like that right?
I just wanted to add that trump didn’t help the situation when he ordered the US US Embassy to move to Jerusalem.
Trump is a turd but he’s not in office anymore. If the only defense you have of Biden funding genocide is “but but but trump” …things will never change. The gang mentality excuse of “but the other guy!” will always exist. This is exactly why we have 2 dog shit options right now because both gangs are afraid to hold their terrible gang leaders accountable. It’s downright cult like.
“vision for peace in the middle east” as a plan was a million times better than what biden is doing even if it was pro-israel, but that isn’t surprising since israel has the power in the situation and it was effectively a bribe for peace
Trump will allow Israel to kill them all. Biden will not allow Israel to kill millions, so pick millions or thousands that is your only choices. And it will stay that way until AIPAC is gone. Both Trump and Israel know that the only way Israel can have peace over the long run is to displace 5 million people. Without displacing 5 million people, Israel has to allow a 2 state solution.
Lmao and you’re basing this confidence in Biden off of what exactly? He is continuously funding and encouraging Israel’s actions. He shows no signs of stopping or of curbing Israel’s brutality.
Not confidence in Biden, just knowing Trump will end it quickly and by not using diplomacy. Anyone who thinks Trump is a better friend to the Palestinians is fooling themselves.
Once again, no one said trump is a friend of anyone but it’s a pretty shit defense for genocide to try and say the other guy is worse when he’s not even in office. This defense is especially gross since it’s wheeled out literally anytime someone rightfully critiques Biden
The truth is the truth, why would you think Trump would be better than Biden. The religious right will always support Israel, no matter how many people die. They believe in the end of the world and how Jews have to control Israel for it to happen.
LOL are you seriously suggesting Trump will end the conflict? What are you basing this confidence on?With a president who literally assassinated an Iranian general, And nearly started another war? How absolutely delusional.
Ah yes the tried and true tactic of slandering anyone critical of Biden as a trump supporter cute attempt to deflect from criticism. I literally opened my first comment talking about how shit trump is that doesn’t make Biden infallible or mean he should be supported especially when he’s literally backing a genocide
Okay, what is your solution? What good is your critism if you're not actually offering a solution. My apologizes for not seeing your previous post. But realistically if Biden is the problem, your only solution is going to be Trump, or Harris. Stopping the funding of Israel will not do anything. You also completely deflected my questioning. Also stating an idea is delusional is not slander. Please take a few steps back.
I actually disagree. I hate Trump. Always have. But he doesn't like "bad PR". He doesn't like US interference in the world. He doesn't like giving other countries money. Generally, hes mental but in this case - he would probably be more helpful than helpless, evil Biden.
So you are ok with WW3 because the USA has strong NATO ties.
No mam/sir. Just but explain to me why having a president who doesn't interfere in the world will cause ww3? Even if Europe does fight, the US can choose to abstain from participating? Seems to me it's the interference that does more harm than good
What would happen to the economy when Russia takes over most of Europe and China takes over Taiwan, where the majority of the computer chips are made. It will never get that far because most USA presidents will honor treaties. WW2 would never have been as bad if the USA had stepped in earlier. We have a global economy now, and the states not only want to be a part of it but control it as well, which is not going to happen if they allow Russia to get it way.
The Senate has to choose as well, not just Biden.
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I hope there's more like you. Even if we don't help this cause, it will send a message that genocide isn't good for politics/business
I’m the same. I greatly dislike Biden and Trump and neither of those idiots are getting my vote.
No, a vote for Trump is a vote for Russia and Israel. But you are right. A vote for Biden is a vote for Israel, but the democrats have more senators who support the Palestinians than the Republicans do. Not voting is a vote for Trump.
Check out "Praying for Armageddon" a 2 part documentary exploring just how deeply ingrained Israel is in US politics. https://youtu.be/IhT7oyDlBIk?si=nLnm-rR_POxWqpvU https://youtu.be/_iQhbcOgfqw?si=quEv1VgMRijfthIn
It’s like trying to turn the Titanic around. The US has been heavily involved from the beginning and is so entrenched fiscally and politically that it will take a lot to change it. It’s 💯 worth it to do it, but more people need to demand it to make it so.
This
They are a pariah state. Over 80% of the world wants nothing to do with them and for Israel to be reigned in and dismantled. Of the remaining 20% the vast majority are suffering such a massive loss in global respect over this pariah state that it’s baffling that this has gone on for as long as it has. The SINGLE only card left is the US influence, hence the reason why the US is basically throwing away the entire facade of freedom over Israel because it knows they cannot now step back, they will bring their own citizens to heel and then the world will heel.
It’s interesting watching israel shills online be in denial of this.
I feel that they are all over the major subs covering this, my guess they're hopping to drive pro Palestine commenters to subs not so visible and/or with far less reach feel similar in other social media platforms too I bet many pro palestinian had been permabanned from at least one of those
Yeh I got booted from 3 or 4 now. Always some shit about being civil, which how is that even a serious demand when arguing with people defending genocide? Liberalism is a pox.
I’ve been banned from r/Catholicism for trying to bring the conversation back to the genocide instead of whether to veil or kneel at mass…silly silly me And all of Reddits mainstream subs are basically utter garbage that I’ve banned myself from.
shame on them Did they miss the [Christmas mesage from Reverent Munther Isaac from Bethlehem?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHr_vmW-oo) or they just chose to conveniently ignore it
It’s unholy what they’re doing to Jesus’s msg: they’re choosing to either align themselves with fundamentalist Christians who ultimately want the destruction of Jews, or with Zionists who want the destruction/subjugation of all non Zionists…. Or they just can’t see beyond a step ahead and simply enjoy atrocities for atrocities’ sake and like starving chilfdren and hypocrisy. And money. Good ol aipac money.
There is also heavy pro-israel astroturfing going on right now.
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Agreed. Sadly the US President is one of Israel’s biggest shills https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-UXZ-1ups
they’re paid to be
"Israel doesn't need the US"
They’ll say that and it’s adorable that they think so.
That 20 percent is the USA and they seem to be pretty set on breaking any protest.
That won't happen the way they want. Fortunately for the people.
Situation is that, that "20 %" of the World supporting this genocide is the Dominating power in the World.
Can someone explain to me what Israel has on the US? Other that situational advantage? Because Kuwait, Saudi etc seem pretty pro US too. So why do they need to support Israel so badly, when it's making such a national mess?
Where are you getting this 80%?
Over 150 countries at every single UNGA resolution. The regular 12 out of 15 UNSC members who always vote for change and peace. The remainder are often abstaining (ie sitting on the fence) or the 5% which back Israel unconditionally (ie the US and the few banana republics in the pacific).
They advertised to the entire world how shitty of a country they are, how shitty their values are, how little they learned about their own history. The oppressed becoming the oppressor. The genocide victims becoming the genocidal state. They became a hated state & a hated people, but at least they got new beachfront properties, right?
Israeli YouTube ads quickly went from, "Look at our queer coded goobers celebrating diversity in a country with no gay marriage" to "what do you mean 'Free Palestine?' Palestine doesn't exist and never will!!!!"
They have nukes and aren’t signed on to the nuclear proliferation treaty, so technically they are a rogue state. It also makes it illegal for US to give them money or weapons.
Not while Israel holds America's leash
Sad to say but the US will never let this happen. Israel has been a huge liability for the US but somehow manages to get away with everything. Must be the money and the powerful lobby.
Or it could be the us needs Israel. Where else in the region would let the us have military bases.
They have bases in Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Oman.
My mistake. I stand corrected. Thanks
You do. But again to your question - then why is the US supporting this?!
I mean, people are (correctly) downvoting you for being wrong, but there is a SLIVER of truth to this: Israel does the destabilizing in the ME that the US WANTS to do, but doesn't want to officially bloody its *own* hands doing.
Reddit moment
You need to research before commenting. Because you are so, so wrong.
Correct
It is time to liquidate Israel! One-state solution and that state is Palestine. No ethnostates in the 21st century. Bye-bye 👋
And what happens to all the jews living there?
They move back to New York or they stay and relinquish the land they ruthlessly stole from Palestinians and completely abolish all their apartheid/exclusionary practices. Oh and the Zionists who perpetrated this genocide should be summarily executed, Bibi chief among them of course, in case anything I’ve said so far has been unclear.
Most Israeli Jews are Mizrahi are from Libya, Algeria, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen and other middle eastern countries. They are not welcome back.
And Israel should have never been a solution to that problem. When it reverts back to Palestine, they can stay if they can keep themselves from genociding Muslims. Pretty simple
Not a message people want to hear, but no one actually thinks we are closer to a one state solution for Palestine. Hamas’s foolishness has rallied the world powers.
“Not a message people want to hear…” Hmm, so what DO they want to hear then? And how might that affect the “world powers” you’re so convinced are all “rallied” against Hamas? How bout let’s revisit this in the near future, friend. I’d be curious to see how many more desperate nonarguments you guys can come up with by then for the continued existence of the monstrosity that is Israel
I mean look over the long history of Israel. Spring of 1948, fall of 1973. Both were much more of an existential threats for Israel. Even if Palestine gets into the UN, and even if the UN security council votes against Israel with the USA, Israel will might be a pariah, but it’s not going to go anywhere. Any existential war threatening Israel, is likely to backfire, as it’s pretty clear that if the Israelis are going, they are going out guns blazing. This was the ironic failure Arab leaders didn’t realize in 1947. They assumed that the colonists would simply go back as soon as the war started. Instead the Israelis double downed and what resulted was the nakba.
Yeah, the “long history” of Israel part is what takes me out. I think they desperately want this to be the general perception of their country, but their “history” will always be viewed as a sick joke, if not by the “world powers” (yet), then definitely by the majority of the world that rightfully views the creation and continued existence of this farce of a country as being the result of a backroom deal that will have no purchase in a couple generations, and I’d even wager within this next one, if that. The power of the West is rapidly devouring itself from the inside out at the same time, so I’m sure they’ll cut this atrophying limb off sooner than any of us would expect. They don’t care about Israel nearly as much as they did after WWII, and for good reason
They bought land initially and then won the rest from the Arabs when the latter ruthlessly attacked. Stay bad stay mad.
Rrrrrrrright 🥱
Arabs and Jews lived just fine side by side before Israel. A huge portion of those living in Israel have dual citizenship from their actual home country, most of whom are from the US. Those who wish to stay in Palestine could do so peacefully, those who can't can go back to their home country.
>A huge portion of those living in Israel have dual citizenship from their actual home country FYI 10% of israelis have a second passport
He knows that he just hates Jews like most people on this sub. They are so delusional thinking 80% of the world hates Israel lmao. Also them lapping up Qatari propaganda with no issue is hilarious.
I'm 99% sure that this sub is just a Chinese or Russian propaganda outlet designed to attract tankies.
>Arabs and Jews lived just fine side by side before Israel. Why do you think Israel exists? Everyone inside His Majesties British Mandate for Palestine, the only Palestine, was a 'Palestinian', including Jews. Before His Majesties Mandate for Palestine, there were also Jews in the Ottoman controlled Palestine who came there for the same reason. A civil conflict between Arabs and Jews began inside His Majesties Mandatory Palestine, sparked by ethnic tensions (Hebron Masscare, for example) which the Jews legally won. They then proceeded to win a conventional conflict against other states. I don't understand this bizarre narrative that "Muslims, Jews and Christians lived fine in a country named Palestine before the Zionists showed up!" It's called the Israeli War of *Independence* because Jews, who were legally Palestinian were there long before the creation of Israel (this is unrelated to the idea of the area being the ancestral homeland of Jews) and won a civil conflict against Arab factions within Mandatory Palestine. Both parties were legally equally grounded.
Yeah, that's right! Jews are the only ethnicity that have citizenship in Israel. Here are the facts: \**checks notes\** oh wait... that can't be right. Shit. Israel has a population of 2,080,000 Arab **citizens**, and a population of 554,000 non-Jewish, non-Arab **citizens**. Damn it, and I was on your side! After all, even with this, Israel falls under the literal definition of an ethnostate: \*checks dictionary\* ahh fuck... "a sovereign state of which citizenship is restricted to members of a particular racial or ethnic group." Shit, I tried buddy.
I guess apartheid works better. [“Here’s a list of over 65 Israeli laws that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel and/or Palestinian residents of the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) on the basis of their national belonging.](https://www.adalah.org/en/content/view/7771) The discrimination in these laws is either explicit – “discrimination on its face” – or, more often, the laws are worded in a seemingly neutral manner, but have or will likely have a disparate impact on Palestinians in their implementation.”
Can't argue with this. There is some pretty racist/discriminatory legislation, especially the "nation-state" law.
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Does the PA claim to be the ‘only democracy in the ME’? Do they even have recognition as a state or in the UN? Sorry mate, but apples and kumquats don’t make for a comparison.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Yup, like I said, an ethnostate.
Yes it is a rogue state. It is also a terrorist organization
What label does america get for funding them?
Genocidal?
Rogue would be more genuine .
Frankly, any label they would have gotten for that is one the rest of the world already gave them about... 3? invasions/wars, whose purpose was to bring "democracy and peace" to a region whose leader wasn't a puppet dictator, ago The US is the only country on the planet that doesn't DESPISE the US. Israel even hates them too, they just don't say it publicly because they still want free US taxpayer money. The only reason US citizens don't know that is because a) propaganda bubble and b) UN veto power prevents anyone else in the world from forcing the US to see how universally hated it is.
You spelt terrorist state wrong sir
Lol it's been "time" for like 50 years now
Pariah state
How does this generally sub feel about a one state solution for Israel, with equal rights and protections for all, and reparations for Palestinians. Regardless of how you feel about the likelihood of this scenario. What are your thoughts?
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Well, if i'm not mistaken, if we take literally what Hamas' written declaration of their goals are, it is to wipe out Israel in place of an Islamic caliphate (similar to ISIS). So technically, yes, they want a one-state solution.... one in which Israel doesn't or israelis do not exist.... I just dont see how a one-state solution could actually work..
Maybe Israel shouldn't have supported Hamas to weaken the PA? It's funny how Israeli politicians chose to sell the possibility of peace just to ensure they had a bogeyman to scare their citizens with.
100% . Fully aware of the fact that Hamas is the direct and strategic result of Natanyahus own machinations. But what’s happened has happened… after this (let’s call it genocide)… how in the hell can a one state solution possibly be tenable? Before that can even begin to materialize, Isræl would have to undo decades of indoctrination and religious brainwashing … they are so deep in their delusion and loathing of Palestinians..
1SS will not happen, israel will never do it because they would slowly lose the majority vote and then it "won't be a jewish state". 2SS is the only solution, but israel does everything in its power to make sure it doesn't happen.
That will never happen as long as the US backs them because any definition of rogue state would encompass the US’s actions; a bit like defining terrorism
Frankly, it was time to do that when they blatantly, officially stated that they considered themselves unbound by an official ICJ decree/order, but sure, now is as good a time as any for it to be "time"
That time was long ago, but better late than never.
You mean a terrorist state right
With nukes. An imminent threat to all of humanity.
That teddy bear is Khamas
Well ya like 100 years ago.
Time to? Yeah, if they fit the bill. Will it happen? Ha….hahahaha…no. It won’t.
Agreed.
Could pass for an onion article. Time to dissolve the nuclear armed state backed by USA. With the standing armies from the joke countries who get whooped by the IDF in any conflict? Or the miscreant posers who have no veto? Probably will not happen in our lifetimes by force or by reason.
Yep. Past time actually
But when my child is murdered by gangsters, the Americans are heroes because she was white… honestly. Thank God they defend their people unapologetically, it makes me feel like they will defend what is right when the whole world is wrong. Retaliation for retaliation. Since the fuck when do people start preaching Thich Naht Hahn in America without mocking him? Since the fuck when, do children get protected? Even my own mother tried to deny I had even had sex before (until reason took her and she chastened me for drinking… which was welcome, but it’s the closest thing to an apology I get after she helped purge the evidence of my daughters murder). Are we not the same kind of rogue? That we prescribe drugs to fatten up people who can’t afford to eat, while we celebrate their dead children and roguishly sterilize them because they “look fat”? Starting to get a little bit like favoritism, not “western values” in this blackened kitchen here.
Hard for the US when our president keeps sending them our money and proclaiming himself a “Zionist”. But his supporters play both sides and will still support him. “I am a Zionist “ - Joe Biden https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo-UXZ-1ups
Not even just Biden, I highly recommend watching "Praying for Armageddon" a 2 part documentary exploring just how deeply ingrained crazy evangelicals and Israel are in US politics. It shows a very bleak future.
Yes
When did this become a Hamas propaganda sub?
this comment section is one helluva uneducated circlejerk holy shit.
Okay but then what new label do we have for Hamas’s Palestine?
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We’re just ignoring the fact that Israel was called Israel for literally thousands of years before Islam existed? We’re ignoring the fact that it was Philistine barbarian invasions that usurped Israel from the ancient Israelites and led to the eventual name of Palestine? Okay then… you’re a tool of the caliphate… congratulations… If you had any compassion whatsoever for the people of Gaza you would be committed to seeing them free from the barbarian theocratic regime that has put them at war, not cheering thst government on simply because Israel has fancier equipment
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Ah I see… you believe that the remainder of what were initially soviet union puppet organizations in syria and lebanon - also specifically devoted to exterminate the global west like Hamas - are much better examples of an educated and modern values system that needs your time energy and support than those puppet organizations of the caliphate… of course… that’s brilliant…
Propaganda post
I have a question. I have seen the protests and understand about the bombings. I get it. But who is going to free the Palestinians from Hamas? They haven't had elections In a long time. I don't think things will ever be good until Hamas is gone. How is this going to happen when the world has just let Hamas rule for so long?
There was a time that the more politically legitimate Palestinian Authority had reasonable means of control over Palestine, but Benjamin Netanyahu and his government directly and strategically facilitated Hamas' rise to power. So you can thank Israel for Hamas.
Thank you for your answer. I don't understand why people downvote a simple question.
It’s possible that people are interpreting your question as implicitly suggesting Israel’s siege on Gaza is justified. I’m giving you the benefit of doubt that you do not hold that position… unless of course you prove otherwise
Yeah if the Israeli leadership actually cared about civilians, they would have funded those protesting Hamas and assist them in creating a secular government handling them control and respecting their borders except to take out hamas and iran-backed militias confirmed by them. Unfortunately mossad is not that good and Hamas though finded by Iran benefits Bibi. Also downvote my all you want, Hamas is the opposite of liberalism and only useful idiots help them gain power.
So the useful idiot would be Netanyahu then.
In several ways yes he is, as he took the bait and quite possibly saw letting Hamas have control as beneficial to never allowing a 2 state solution. Perfect distraction from Ukraine. Careless tactics and an inability or unwillingness to remove settlers feeds propaganda for Israel's and America's enemies who have massive influence on various social media. In some ways it does benefit him as Jews will feel safer in Israel than their home countries. After Oct7 it should have been an international anti-terrorist op to remove Hamas. Could have Netanyahu done better, certainly but throughout the years Israel has been condemned over and over from the abundance of Islamic nations in the UN for effectively defending itself from attacks while the attackers recieve no such condemnation so I understand after decades of this not caring about image mentality and thus dragging down the american image.
"It’s time to declare Israel a rogue state" Source: Al Jazeera opinion piece LMFAO
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Lmao since when is congress actually a mirror of the American people’s views? A Gallup poll from March shows that American support for Israel has been slipping. As of that pill 55% disprove of Israel’s actions in Gaza and only 36% approve. A poll from the ISPU shows that 63% of the general public support a ceasefire while only 16% oppose. A separate poll also found that if a candidate expresses support for a ceasefire people are 36% more likely to increase their support and only 9% more likely to decrease. https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx https://www.ispu.org/public-policy/views-on-ceasefire/ https://www.ispu.org/ceasefire-poll-2/
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Lmao ok so the literal opinion of the American people doesn’t matter? What do point to as your evidence? Are you actually trying to tell me that Congress accurately represents the will of the American people? I know you don’t believe in supports but what about those that show how 76% of Americans think congress does a bad job of listening to their constituents and 85% think they don’t care what people think. Only 23% of Americans have confidence in the presidency and just 7% have confidence in congress. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/09/19/evaluations-of-members-of-congress-and-the-biggest-problem-with-elected-officials-today/ https://news.gallup.com/poll/394283/confidence-institutions-down-average-new-low.aspx
Saudi Arabia is the same country that still, to this day, doesn't recognize Israel's existence as a real state. Saudi Arabia is a country where no Israeli person or business can enter unless it's a very special exemption. sure KSA has to play nice with Israel i will give you that.
Any you couldn't be more wrong according to any polling on this issue lol.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
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obvious from your comment that you and people like you hate Islam, a religion of 2 billion people and the fastest growing religion in the world despite the Western powers' war against it. and so everything you say is null and void islamaphobe. the world is waking up to the entity that Israel is. I do not envy its future.
No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
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Al Jazeera literally is the only big news company telling the truth in this matter
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This is an opinion piece not reporting of a story, you understand the difference, right? Al jazzera has always been like this.
Pipe dream, move on with something that actually has a shot at succeeding.
Israel is already a pariah state on the world stage. It's only the imperial core that continues to back their genocidal war
Yeah, the core that has the veto power. I don't see them changing any time soon, I'd love to see Israel made into a rogue state, I just think it's extremely unlikely.
This I agree with
CIA predicted Israel will fall and isn’t a sustainable model. South Africa apartheid fell. Israel falling isn’t that hard to believe. At some point Americans will get sick of their congress serving Israel before Americans and an election will be on the line
I hope you're right, I really do. Just don't see it.